[HN Gopher] The Party Math Trick
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Party Math Trick
        
       Author : bern4444
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2021-11-28 06:31 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sambernheim.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sambernheim.com)
        
       | joenot443 wrote:
       | Yeah, I donno. Even if I were able to convince someone at a party
       | to go along with this "trick", I don't think they'd be especially
       | impressed when after scrambling and subtracting 4 digit numbers,
       | I'm able to wow them with a single digit.
        
       | Supermancho wrote:
       | I picked 5000.  The trick doesn't work and demonstrably, the
       | automated version doesn't know what number I picked.
       | 
       | A different issue by picking 2222 (anything that ends up with all
       | 0s or 9s ofc)
       | 
       | Not something I would bring up at a party because people are
       | drinking and not really interested in doing addition/subtraction
       | and will DEFINITELY pick simple numbers. By the time you get into
       | "it has to be non-zero digits" they have already become bored.
       | 
       | It feels like my little brother running up to me and screaming
       | "What's 729 squared?" and without a beat "531,441" , "I'm smarter
       | than you!"
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | 345 also doesn't work if you pick 435 as the shuffle, for
         | example.
        
         | tgb wrote:
         | Your example does work for this.
        
           | Supermancho wrote:
           | Corrected.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | How this goes in real life:
       | 
       | "Was your number... 3741?"
       | 
       | "No."
       | 
       | "Heh, I'm afraid that's impossible based on number theory. You
       | must have made a mistake in the step where I asked you to choose
       | a second 4-digit number by scrambling the four digits of the
       | first number and subtracting the larger number from the smaller.
       | Try it again, I'll wait."
       | 
       | "No."
        
         | whatshisface wrote:
         | A good magician would ask them to have a calculator out... or
         | present only to an audience of geniuses.
        
       | auggierose wrote:
       | Watch "Last year at Marienbad" for the ultimate math party game
       | :-)
        
         | m_st wrote:
         | Oh thanks for getting me spending about an hour on Wikipedia
         | reading about this movie, the relation to Godard movies, and so
         | much else :-) Will definitely watch this one soon!
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | Here's a _much_ better party /bar trick:                 1. Point
       | to the drink glass in front of you       2. Ask friend if they
       | think the circumference or height of the glass is larger       3.
       | Friend will invariably think that height is larger       4. Wager
       | for a drink that that's not the case       5. Use a straw to
       | measure the circumference and then height       6. Enjoy your
       | free drink
       | 
       | Unless you've picked an a Champaigne flute you'll always win. To
       | make it even more fun, for (4) wager that the circumference will
       | be _two_ times the height to make it sound more incredulous. For
       | typical glasses you may go up to three!
       | 
       | I learned this trick from _Things to Make and Do in the Fourth
       | Dimension_ (https://www.amazon.com/Things-Make-Fourth-Dimension-
       | Mathemat...), overall good book.
        
       | thehappypm wrote:
       | This guy must go to parties with Good Will Hunting.
        
         | jrumbut wrote:
         | When he said "now subtract the two 4 digit numbers" I felt a
         | whole room full of eyes glaze over.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | That sort of trick is a terrible opener. You want something
           | simple for an opener. A 'tweener' trick yeah something like
           | this is OK, but read your audience. I may have binge watched
           | all of scam school.
        
       | localhost wrote:
       | When I was a kid, I loved the Mathemagic book [1] IIRC this was
       | one of the tricks described in the book.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.amazon.com/Mathemagic-Raymond-Blum/dp/0806983558
        
       | leecarraher wrote:
       | some python to do this trick and find counterexamples that won't
       | work                   import random as r         def fnc(b):
       | bstr = list(str(b))             if bstr.count(bstr[0]) ==
       | len(bstr):                  return "can't shuffle"
       | max_ct = len(bstr)*10                           # do while
       | r.shuffle(bstr)             b_shuf = int(''.join(bstr))
       | diff = abs(b-b_shuf)             bstr = list(str(diff))
       | i = r.randint(0,len(bstr)-1)                  while bstr[i] ==
       | '0' or bstr[i] == '9':                 i =
       | r.randint(0,len(bstr)-1)                 bstr = list(str(b))
       | r.shuffle(bstr)                 b_shuf = int(''.join(bstr))
       | diff = abs(b-b_shuf)                 bstr = list(str(diff))
       | max_ct -=1                 if max_ct == 0:
       | return "bollocks!"                          del(bstr[i])
       | s = sum(map(int,bstr))             i =0             while (i+s) %
       | 9 != 0:                 i+=1             return bstr,i,diff
        
       | j7ake wrote:
       | I would bet a decent chunk of money the author has never
       | successfully tried this at a party.
       | 
       | Asking people to subtract two 4 digit numbers and picking digits
       | that are not 0 and 9 is absolutely not a "party trick".
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | Maybe title would have to be The Math Party Math Trick.
        
       | icameron wrote:
       | I'm being honest here. Reading along I randomly picked 987 from
       | my brain. I scrambled that to 897. Subtracting the smaller from
       | the larger I got 90, per the instructions. So I am unable to tell
       | you the remaining digits starting with a number that isn't 9 or
       | 0.... Maybe I'm a "you must be fun to talk to at parties" kind of
       | guy.
        
         | cphoover wrote:
         | lol
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | I did the same thing, starting from 100. I guess maybe "no
         | digits" is a sufficient response to end up with 90?
        
         | leecarraher wrote:
         | yeah for first 10000 digits there is about a 2%-5% chance
         | (around 20%-5% for first 2k, then falls below 2% for remaining
         | 2/3s) of selecting one that doesn't work. obviously picking
         | something like 1111, 2222, ... won't work either since you
         | can't rearrange it to anything but 0s.
        
         | kej wrote:
         | Although not mentioned in the article, the trick can handle
         | this. The rule should be "remove a digit that isn't 0", and if
         | the sum of remaining digits is divisible by 9 then the removed
         | digit must be 9 as well. That will cover everything except the
         | case when the original number and the scrambled number are the
         | same.
        
       | clashmoore wrote:
       | Back in grade school when playing with a calculator, I came
       | across this weird pattern when adding various combinations of 3
       | digit numbers on the number pad.
       | 
       | I wonder if there is something similar at foot as with this
       | trick.
       | 
       | As follows, taking a calculator and the number grid, so a series
       | of additions of a row added to the reverse of that row added to
       | the second row, etc etc.
       | 
       | So following a horizontal pattern: 123 + 321 + 456 + 654 + 789 +
       | 987 = 3,330
       | 
       | Now, let's see the sum when we use a vertical pattern: 147 + 741
       | + 258 + 852 + 369 + 963 = 3,330
       | 
       | Then, you can also do the diagonals:
       | 
       | Diagonally NW to SE: 748 + 847 + 159 + 951 + 263 + 362 = 3,330
       | 
       | Second Diagonal NW to SE: 784 + 487 + 159 + 951 + 623 + 326 =
       | 3,330
       | 
       | Diagonally SW to NE: 142 + 241 + 753 + 357 + 869 + 968 = 3,330
       | 
       | Second Diagonally SW to NE: 421 + 124 + 753 + 357 + 689 + 986 =
       | 3,330
       | 
       | Just a silly occurrence that they all sum to the same value
       | 3,330.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | Notice that in this arrangement                 1 2 3       4 5
         | 6       7 8 9
         | 
         | opposite values add up to 10: 1 + 9, 2 + 8, 3 + 7, 4 + 6. This
         | has to do with why the last digit of the sums you are seeing is
         | always 0: 3330.
         | 
         | For instance in 123 + 321 + 456 + 654 + 789 + 987, the last
         | digit is (3 + 1) + (6 + 4) + (9 + 7). We can rearrange these
         | six numbers into (1 + 9) + (4 + 6) + (7 + 3) = 10 + 10 + 30 =
         | 30.
         | 
         | Ok, so now we have a 0, and a carry of 3.
         | 
         | Next, note that since the diagonally opposite elements add to
         | 10, all the three-element traces that pass through the center 5
         | necessarily add up to 15: (1 + 5 + 9) = (2 + 5 + 8) = (3 + 5 +
         | 7) = (4 + 5 + 6) = 15.
         | 
         | In calculating the second digit of the sum you have 2 5 and 8,
         | which occur twice: (2 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 8 + 8) = 30. Combine that
         | with the carried 3 and you get 33. Put down the 3 and carry the
         | 3.
         | 
         | Then again, the 100's digit is just mirror image of the ones:
         | it adds up to 30, which combines with the carried 3 to make 33.
         | 
         | With 784 + 487 + 159 + 951 + 623 + 326, though you have
         | rearranged the digits to form corner triangles, that is just a
         | red herring. If you look at the ones digits inside this sum,
         | you have 4 7 9 1 3 6. These is just the set made up of the left
         | and right columns of the square, which we know can be put into
         | 3 pairs adding to 10, making 30. Again we get our 0 to put down
         | and 3 to carry.
         | 
         | The middle digits, the tens, are once again 8 5 and 2, doubled
         | up again: another 15 x 2 = 30: put down 3, carry 3.
         | 
         | And so it goes.
        
         | davchana wrote:
         | It stays true for digits 1,3,7,9 i.e. 13+31+79+97 = 17+71+39+93
         | 
         | also for 1,2,4,5 with 12+21+45+54 = 14+41+25+52
         | 
         | Maybe there is some pattern.
         | 
         | Something similar we used to do in school to find answers for
         | multiplication table of 9. We used to write all tables from 1
         | to 20, recite & them read them back from memory.
         | 
         | We would go by writing 9, ten times in ten total rows, like
         | 
         | 9 9 .... 9
         | 
         | Then from tenth row come up by writing x (sign of
         | multiplication)
         | 
         | 9x
         | 
         | Now go down again writing 1,2,3 in each row like
         | 
         | 9x1 9x2 .... 9x10
         | 
         | Now come up writing = in every row.
         | 
         | Now go down writing digits 0 to 9 like
         | 
         | 9x1=0 9x2=1 .... 9x10=9
         | 
         | Now write 0 to 9 again going up, ending up with table.
         | 
         | 9x1=09 9x2=18 9x3=27 ..... 9x10=90
        
       | dragontamer wrote:
       | Actual Math Party tricks are standard affairs: just jokes about
       | Math.
       | 
       | * "Hey Babe, would you like to be my derivative and lie tangent
       | to my curves?"
       | 
       | * Question: What did Euler discover while sitting on the toilet?
       | 
       | -- Answer: A natural log.
       | 
       | * Question: Why do programmers mix up Christmas and Halloween?
       | 
       | -- Answer: Because Dec(imal) 25 == Oct(al) 31.
       | 
       | * Once upon a time, a big, evil derivative was approaching town.
       | All the polynomials ran away in terror, expecting themselves to
       | be derived away. Suddenly, the local Sheriff appeared, and rode
       | out to parley with the derivative.
       | 
       | The Sheriff and Derivative meet up, and a showdown was about to
       | occur. Knowing that it will all be over soon, they exchanged
       | pleasantries before the final showdown.
       | 
       | The Sheriff introduces himself: "I'm e^x, the Sheriff of this
       | town. You can't dare to derive me!"
       | 
       | Upon hearing the name: the evil derivative gives a toothy grin
       | and says "My name is d/dy".
       | 
       | Etc. etc. Assuming you're comfortable telling these kinds of
       | jokes of course. As usual, you need to read the room and see if
       | the jokes would fly in the company you're in.
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | Q: What do you get when you cross an hippo and an aardvark?
         | 
         | A: HippoAardvarkSinTheta
         | 
         | Q: What do you get if you cross a mosquito and a mountain
         | climber?
         | 
         | A: Nothing, you can't cross a vector and a scalar!
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | Q: What's yellow and equivalent to the axiom of choice?
           | 
           | A: Zorn's lemon!
        
       | supernova87a wrote:
       | I guess it's a good party trick if you've never been to a good
       | party.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-30 23:01 UTC)