[HN Gopher] Importance of muscle mass, strength and cardiorespir...
___________________________________________________________________
Importance of muscle mass, strength and cardiorespiratory fitness
for longevity
Author : amitsheokand
Score : 123 points
Date : 2021-11-28 11:53 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (peterattiamd.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (peterattiamd.com)
| georgewsinger wrote:
| What's the best way to measure VO2?
| theabsurdman wrote:
| apple watch will measure it, though i have no idea how accurate
| it is. to do it properly you need to undergo a supervised test
| in a lab with the right equipment.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Apple watch measures heartbeat and oximetry (SpO2).
|
| A VO2 max test needs a closed air system, whatever estimation
| Apple's software provides will be for indication purposes
| only.
| agumonkey wrote:
| https://archive.md/QRXOC just in case
|
| last month I focused a bit on oxygen levels and mitochondrial
| health. Good breathing (and overall cardiovascular system) seems
| a simple trick to help your body overall. But I lack solid
| resources on the matter.
| honahursey wrote:
| The best resources I have found for breath technique is two
| books: Breath by James Nestor and The Oxygen Advantage by
| Patrick McKeown.
|
| Breath is a much better book and very interesting, but is a bit
| less actionable in terms of real guidance it offers on what to
| do and practice.
|
| The Oxygen Advantage is a much worse book with lots of hand
| waving and less evidence to back up all of the authors claims.
| The instructions on what to practice are much better and more
| actionable than the Breath book though.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Thank you very much, always a good start.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| This sort of stuff would have to be done ahead of some
| particular focused activity you want to optimize, no?
|
| Breathing is autonomic. You obviously can't try to "improve"
| it all day.
| shane_b wrote:
| A lot of improvements to breathing come as secondary
| effects from other things. For example, wake posture, sleep
| posture, nose vs mouth, etc.
|
| Any conscious breathing is short like you mention but I
| still think it builds a habit of breathing the practiced
| way. Like exercise or learning a skill.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Your body isn't perfect, your hormone levels / nervous
| system state can derail the healthy autonomous response.
|
| Having a sense of that, and knowing how to allocate some
| time to reset it a bit (deep breathing to relax arteries,
| slow down heart rate) is valuable I believe.
| windock wrote:
| What books do you recommend about fitness, weight training and
| aerobic exercise?
|
| Just started going to a gym after a long break, and I am an
| absolute beginner in this topic.
| kelp wrote:
| If you can afford it, a trainer at a good gym will make a big
| difference. That's how I got started and I really got results.
| They can make a program that's setup for your goals and tweak
| it to keep it interesting. Plus the social pressure of having
| the appointment was what I needed to get out of bed early and
| get to the gym on time, especially when I didn't feel like
| doing it.
| [deleted]
| generalenvelope wrote:
| preface with: I am not against trainers. I think they can be
| very valuable for the reasons you mentioned - encouragement,
| "managing" the technicalities, instructing your
| technique/nutrition.
|
| With that said, I would recommend using a trainer in
| combination with at least one separate resource - like
| barbell medicine. I've had personal experience with trainers
| that pedaled pseudo science (or sometimes straight BS) as
| fact, or recommended methods that weren't aligned with my
| goals.
| bitwize wrote:
| Rippetoe's Starting Strength is widely considered the go-to
| book for beginners.
|
| Starting off by doing compound exercises like squats,
| deadlifts, bench press, and OH press is a great way to get your
| base strength levels up. You can add accessories later to zero
| in on specific muscle groups that need work. (You'll know which
| ones need work.)
|
| Best tip is don't be a showoff. Use only the amount of weight
| you can actually handle while keeping your form correct. Proper
| technique is better than big numbers. Strength will come with
| effort and technique.
|
| Oh, and your diet will change. Get ready to sate those cravings
| you'll get for protein-rich and fatty foods your body needs to
| repair your broken-down muscles. And get used to delayed-onset
| muscle soreness (DOMS); it's the "pain" in "no pain, no gain".
| Other forms of pain may not be so good.
| kelp wrote:
| Regarding DOMS, I find that once I was on a very consistent
| program, 3-4 days a week, I never got sore with weight
| training. But if I ever took a week off, I'd have to back off
| on the volume and weight to avoid getting sore. Longer than a
| week and you really have to back way way off.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| That's about my workout frequency, and I'm basically sore
| all the time. I am constantly working on increasing weights
| though, I'm sure if I just did "maintenance" workouts it
| would be different.
|
| Edit: clarify "sore" not "in pain" there is a difference.
| rkk3 wrote:
| When I trained a few years ago, I would be sore all the
| time... Now I've been training again, lifting more times
| a week & heavier weights and am pretty much not sore at
| all...
|
| I would try 1) increasing your protein to 1.5-2g per kg
| of body weight per day. 2) Cutting alcohol 3) Making sure
| you get enough sleep to recover properly 4) Drinking more
| Water (1 gallon / 4L a day)
| throwawayboise wrote:
| So I weigh about 84kg I should be shooting for ~150g
| protein daily? I don't really track closely but even with
| my ~30g post-workout drink I am guessing I don't get that
| much. I should keep a closer eye on it.
| rkk3 wrote:
| Yeah I would try increasing protein, you may not have
| been getting enough for optimal recovery & growth.
| Besides protein shakes, non-fat greek yogurt and egg-
| whites are almost pure protein sources that are easy to
| add in.
| CuriousSkeptic wrote:
| I found this to be pretty interesting:
|
| Which Comes First, Cardio or Weights?: Fitness Myths, Training
| Truths, and Other Surprising Discoveries from the Science of
| Exercise by Alex Hutchinson
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11115311-which-comes-fir...
| brandonmenc wrote:
| It depends on what your goals are.
|
| Ignore everyone here recommending Starting Strength without
| knowing what your goals are because if your goals are general
| health or a classic physique, that book will not help you.
|
| imo the book is overrated, contrarian, and cultish, and results
| in injuries and an unbalanced physique just so you can get kind
| of strong at a few powerlifting movements.
| logosmonkey wrote:
| I like Jeff Nippards stuff. He's generally pretty reasoned in
| his stances and his workouts are all pretty well done. I've had
| very good results so far with his 3/week full body hypertrophy
| program.
| cmaggiulli wrote:
| Starting Strength by Mark R
| lottin wrote:
| _Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training_ by Mark Rippetoe is
| a must read if you are looking into "getting in shape." It
| contains a thorough analysis of the main barbell lifts, and
| compelling arguments in favour of barbell training (and against
| other types of training). You'll find a lot of learning
| material on Youtube as well.
| grech wrote:
| When I first started getting in better health and shape years
| ago, two resources helped me learn, provide structure, and form
| habits. One is a lengthy blog post and the other one is a
| popular book. Both are simple and accessible in their approach.
|
| Nerdfitness - The Beginner Bodyweight Workout
| https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/beginner-body-weight-workou...
|
| Bigger Leaner Stronger (Book)
| npsimons wrote:
| Funnily enough, I picked up "Starting Strength: Basic Barbell
| Training" by Mark Rippetoe based on an HN recommendation. In my
| view, free weights beat out just about everything else for
| strength training because if you do the basic five (squat,
| deadlift, bench press, overhead press, power clean), that hits
| pretty much _every_ muscle, including stabilisers. It helps not
| just with strength, but balance and supporting joints, plus
| increases bone strength.
|
| As for aerobics/cardio, I've never really picked up a book
| myself as I've been hiking my entire life. It really depends on
| what you're aiming for; if it's just baseline cardio, walks
| around the neighborhood are good enough. Beyond that you have
| to specialize a bit depending on what you're aiming for, be it
| endurance, speed, explosiveness, and also terrain and form.
| Swimming is probably the lowest impact, but requires a pool. I
| use cycling for groceries, errands and when I used to commute,
| but that's sort of an absolute bare minimum. At home I got a
| VersaClimber clone since I rock climb and mountaineer. I
| recently got into trail running after reading "Born to Run" but
| that's less a prescriptive/instructive book than an
| inspirational/entertaining read.
|
| Recently I've gotten into Yoga as I've been neglecting
| flexibility. Yoga With Adrienne on YouTube has worked well for
| me so far.
| bumby wrote:
| SS is good for beginners, but I would push back a bit that it
| works every muscle sufficiently. Rip says himself his method
| is really about basic movement patterns. While those
| exercises probably meet the points of diminishing returns, it
| doesn't do much for specific muscles like, say, biceps, which
| is why he advocates ancillary exercises as somebody
| progresses.
| valec wrote:
| honestly the reddit r/fitness faq is pretty good. if you don't
| mind reading a lot the strongerbyscience guides on squatting,
| deadlifting and benching are very high quality.
|
| in terms of programming: starting strength is ok for beginners
| but don't stay glued to it for too long. once you start
| stalling move on to an intermediate program like the texas
| method, any of the SBS programs, 5/3/1 bbb, or some sort of
| ppl.
|
| also, while starting strength is fine for beginners (the low
| volume isn't a problem as in beginners few gains are made the
| first month due to poor physiological recovery capacity, and
| beginners respond to basically any volume), mark rippetoe is a
| stubborn dogmatist who has never broken any records or coached
| anyone who's broken any records. take a lot of things he says
| with a grain of salt.
|
| the most important things are: push yourself in the gym,
| increase weights or reps regularly (or more generally
| difficulty so you keep adapting to higher demands/build
| muscle), eat at a slight surplus, and sleep at least 7 hours,
| preferably 9 if it's possible.
| kemayo wrote:
| I would consider that if your goal is just general "I'd like
| to be strong and healthy", whether someone has broken records
| doesn't really factor in to it. A program that'll take you
| from unfit to the strongest person in most rooms isn't
| necessarily going to share much beyond basic principles with
| a world record contender program.
|
| That said, totally agree on those basics: progressive
| overload + eat right.
| User23 wrote:
| _Starting Strength_ is a decent place to start for barbell
| exercise, but it 's very much in the spirit of _The Strongest
| Shall Survive: Strength Training for Football_ [1]. Therefore,
| if you're not a pubescent male with north of 1,000 ng/dL of
| testosterone and competitive athletic ambitions you'll probably
| want to modify the programming. I also hear good things about
| _The Physics of Resistance Exercise_ , but I've yet to read it.
|
| An important thing about resistance exercise is that it's not
| just about muscles. It also stimulates the skeletal system to
| make your bones more dense, strengthens your ligaments and
| tendons, and perhaps most importantly stimulates the central
| nervous system. The latter is the likely mechanism for
| cognitive benefits.
|
| [1] It's arguably the better book, but it's out of print and
| you're going to be looking at about a couple hundred bucks at
| least for a copy.
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _Therefore, if you 're not a pubescent male_
|
| Rippetoe, the author of the book, is 65 years old:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
|
| It's a book for beginners and anyone can use the linear
| progression method. Once you've progressed beyond just a
| beginner, _The Barbell Prescription_ takes the _Starting
| Strength_ idea and adapts for for people 40 and older:
|
| * https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34823846-the-
| barbell-...
|
| One of the co-authors (an MD) runs the _GreySteel_ YT channel
| (and he 's no spring chicken):
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/c/GreySteel/about
| kemayo wrote:
| You can see their basic program here:
| https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs
|
| It has advice for how much to increase weight by which
| varies based on age and gender. (It's basically "slow down
| if you're not an 18-35 year old man".)
| jl2718 wrote:
| Stop driving. Bike everywhere. That's all you need to know.
| agumonkey wrote:
| How long have you been doing this ?
|
| I managed to implement this since july this year. Very good
| benefits (muscle mass, cardiovascular health) but winter
| early night makes it a lot less joyful and I'm feeling less
| motivated. Also I see my thighs are getting thick and stiff
| .. but maybe I can fix that (jogging session and stretch ?)
| schrijver wrote:
| Not the parent poster, but have done this all my live. In
| The Netherlands people generally stop biking for sport in
| the winter, yet continue biking to work, which shows that
| your observation that it looses its fun is largely shared.
| It's just that the benefits keep outweighing the drawbacks:
| it's cheap, fast (at least in congested cities),
| sustainable, and good for your health.
|
| Then again, it's much easier to keep doing something when
| everybody else is doing it, so if you're in an area where
| cyclists are a minority I imagine it's more of a challenge
| to convince yourself. The advantages do still apply so I'm
| sending virtual encouragement!
| agumonkey wrote:
| > Then again, it's much easier to keep doing something
| when everybody else is doing it, so if you're in an area
| where cyclists are a minority I imagine it's more of a
| challenge to convince yourself. The advantages do still
| apply so I'm sending virtual encouragement!
|
| Very much, and also netherlands bike lane system is a
| real luxury. I'm lucky to have a long bike lane to bike
| freely, if most of my area was like this I'd be biking
| twice more.
| Lukas_Skywalker wrote:
| Case in point: children in Finland bike to school [1] even at
| -17C/2F. Studded tires work really well, even if it's a bit
| icy.
|
| [1] https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-
| winter-sn...
| Someone wrote:
| Temperature isn't the best indicator of bikeability.
|
| That photo, to me, looks like a cloudless sky, so chances
| are it's dry, little or no wind, and low humidity.
|
| Even at -17C, that's easy to dress for and way better than
| what you get around freezing with wind and rain, when the
| cloud cover prevents temperatures from dropping very deep
| (e.g. your typical British/Belgian/Dutch autumn weather)
|
| Even that is quite doable, though, at shortish distances
| (say less than 5km), certainly with some wind cover, as
| there typically is in cities.
| dehrmann wrote:
| That's great for cardio, but the main muscles it works are
| the quads. Hamstrings aren't emphasized, and upper body is
| lacking.
| namdnay wrote:
| Does upper body strength have a big impact on longevity? I
| would have imagined that daily biking covers 99% of the
| health gains
| schrijver wrote:
| I would think so too. The advantage is that since it's
| part of daily life, you create this baseline of exercise
| that is always there, also when you lack motivation or
| time to do other sports.
| mpalczewski wrote:
| Depending on where you live this advise my shorten your life
| expectancy and health expectancy. I've seen those on bikes
| get hit by cars plenty of times.
| arisAlexis wrote:
| Also cycling next to exhaust fumes is controversial at
| least
| notacoward wrote:
| That's great when you already have that ability, and when
| circumstances permit. There's a bit more to it for people who
| do not have that ability, might never have that ability due
| to disability, or live in places/situations where it's not
| feasible. "That's all" is an expression of privilege, not
| real advice.
| schrijver wrote:
| "That's all you need to know" is not the best way to put
| it... "It's one of the best hacks out there" would be
| better. It's kind of "take the stairs instead of the
| elevator" on steroids... you're modifying something you
| have to do anyway, creating a new habit that will work in
| your favour... and in this case it also has environmental
| benefits and is likely cheaper then other forms of
| transport. But like any hack, there are scenarios where it
| won't work, that's clear.
| pengaru wrote:
| Why bike? Man up and run everywhere.
| agumonkey wrote:
| I can bike as fast as Usain Bolt runs.
|
| Also biking is a bit easier on your back and legs. It may
| harm shoulders and testicles though.
| notacoward wrote:
| > I can bike as fast as Usain Bolt runs.
|
| ...which means absolutely nothing in terms of either
| ability or fitness. Sure, if you're time constrained,
| biking might be feasible where running is not. Otherwise
| it's just Easy Mode.
| agumonkey wrote:
| 1) It was half a joke (implying I will never reach 35km/h
| with my legs)
|
| 2) OP was trying to go back into physical exercise, doing
| everything by bike is a great way to jump back. Running
| is amazing but your options are greatly reduced. I can
| use my bike to commute which means I don't have to
| allocate time for physical exercise. Aren't we all time
| constrained ?
|
| have a good day
| pengaru wrote:
| > biking is a bit easier on your back and legs. It may
| harm shoulders and testicles though.
|
| Not when you actually consider the probabilities of
| getting injured in a crash/fall.
|
| I can't tell you the number of times I've been injured on
| two wheels. Once I was run over by an inattentive driver
| hitting my BMX, knocking me to the ground, driving over
| my leg. On other occasions I've broken my wrists, broken
| collarbone, countless instances of road rash and other
| wounds. Other people here are arguing you can cycle in
| snow and ice, lololol, been there, done that, have the
| scars to prove it.
|
| There's just no comparison in the context of "easier on
| your body". You can run/walk on sidewalks and trails with
| all the other pedestrians, away from cars. Cycling near
| massive vehicles driven by people addicted to taking
| selfies is so hazardous to your body it tends to kill it
| to death.
|
| If fitness is the goal, running is way more effective in
| the same unit of time than cycling. I've done both trail
| running and mountain biking on similar trails. Every time
| I get really into the trail running mode enough to have
| the necessary fitness to really execute, returning to my
| mountain bike feels like easy mode with heaps of
| unnecessary mechanical wankery thrown in mostly because
| it entertains my inner gearhead and gives me more things
| to play consumer whore shopping for and buying.
| agumonkey wrote:
| This is akin to say you can slip while jogging in a
| forest. At time I have to avoid the angry dog chasing me.
| So yeah if you bike fast around cars shit can happen. If
| you coast on small lanes in a village, you will catch
| yourself on your feet before falling off of your bike
| (and if not then don't use a bike you're not ready).
|
| I wasn't even "comparing" bike / feet. Just showing the
| potential pain points. I just couldn't jog because of my
| knees while I could bike (it actually helped said knees).
| I do prefer running for overall health... it involves
| more muscle groups and your respiration is also more
| intense (and so far I never had biking high, while
| running puts me in the zone.)
|
| Cheeers.
| pengaru wrote:
| > if you bike fast around cars shit can happen
|
| If you bike _slowly_ around cars, bad shit is even more
| likely to happen.
|
| Have you ridden a motorcycle on roads before? It's
| infinitely safer than pedaling a bicycle among automotive
| traffic because you can at least keep up with the flow of
| traffic and behave in every sense as an automobile, in
| what is firmly the automobile's native land.
|
| In the US it's exceedingly rare to live in a village with
| dedicated bike trails you can safely coast along. We have
| roads full of carelessly driven cars _everywhere_. Riding
| bicycles on those roads is quite unpleasant to say the
| least, based on my experience. We have reported instances
| of assholes "rolling coal" not only deliberately smoking
| out cyclists, but in some cases flat out running them
| over.
|
| And we haven't even broached the subject of cycling being
| an acquired skill many adults plain suck at. It's
| complicated if you didn't grow up pedaling everywhere.
| Have you ever tried introducing an adult to cycling who
| didn't do it before? The only teaching experience more
| cringe-worthy I can recall was teaching someone with no
| manual transmission experience how to ride a motorcycle.
| All those moments have been hellish "I'm pretty sure I'm
| just helping this person get on a path leading to more
| convoluted self-harm" experiences. Getting them to go for
| a run doesn't even register anywhere on this particular
| map.
|
| Back when I moved to CA for my first startup job, I had
| to leave my partner and our pets back in IL for a few
| months with family while I found us an apartment. When my
| partner finally showed up she had her arm in a cast,
| wanna guess why? Bicycle crash. She didn't have much
| experience riding bicycles growing up in a sea of
| cycling-hostile 5+-lane Florida surface streets, and
| crashed riding my old bicycle with my nephew passing time
| while waiting to relocate. Imagine how annoying that must
| have been to bring two housecats through TSA alone with a
| newly broken arm. Yeah, go ride bicycles everywhere
| everyone!
|
| People that recommend everyone ride a bicycle everywhere
| seem to have absolutely no perspective rooted in reality.
| My "man up, run everywhere" comment was intended mostly
| tongue in cheek, but I'm willing to play devil's advocate
| in arguing it's obviously safer and more accessible than
| cycling. They're both ridiculously impractical in a world
| optimized for automobiles.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Well it seems very specific to the US (and ex USSR
| countries one can see on youtube)
|
| Now you have a point if OP never rode a bike before, I'd
| stay away for a while. Maybe that's why I never had any
| issues going back to biking .. I basically grew up on a
| bike. But that's not out of touch with reality. I crashed
| twice in the last 6 months, but I was far from breaking
| an arm (even though both time it was a front wheel losing
| balance so face first to the ground) and that didn't
| bother me much more (and I have a super weak health these
| days, I'm not a young stud in mint condition at all)
|
| about practicality, and even safety.. I'd argue it's not
| as sure as it appears, at least in western european
| countries.. it's less risky than heavy traffic
| intersection in a car with crazy drivers cutting you off
| (with my bike I can chose 20 different routes back to
| home), and unsurprisingly I get there faster than with my
| car (no traffic jams).
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| David Goggins is that you ? I have been exercising my
| entire life and running is the only activity that routinely
| gives me injuries that last for nearly a year. Most of us
| probably don't have the best form but watching Goggins get
| his knees drained last year made me question if humans were
| meant to run regularly past a certain distance and past a
| certain age.
| pengaru wrote:
| > I have been exercising my entire life and running is
| the only activity that routinely gives me injuries that
| last for nearly a year
|
| What are you doing, running ultra-marathons?
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| No, probably more dumb in the "man-up" sense: running
| immediately after waking in below freezing weather while
| it's still dark out without warming up or wearing warm
| clothes. I felt superhuman and that feeling is addictive.
|
| Perhaps that is why running injuries are so common ? You
| can't keep pushing yourself to deadlift more, for
| example, without it being painfully obvious your form is
| not right. And you just know that the person looking back
| in the mirror should not deadlift 315 lbs. But with
| running there is no obvious indication and the
| environmental factors keep changing. Then you're spending
| months stiff and in pain. You feel 20 years old one week
| and 90 years old the next.
| foobiekr wrote:
| Biking doesn't do much for bone mass retention or upper body
| strength. Bike all you want, but also lift.
| wussboy wrote:
| Unfortunately this advice is irrelevant (or suicidal) in many
| climates. Canada's prairie provinces are completely unridable
| for 3-6 months out of the year.
| pomian wrote:
| To help clarify. There are many different northern
| climates. Close to the oceans,which is Coastal, is very
| different than continental. I think there is misconception
| for those who don't understand, because how can they(?) If
| they have not experienced a Canadian or Siberian prairie
| winter. 30 to 40 degrees below zero ( degf=degc), wind
| blowing, constantly 30 to 50 km/hr(20-30mph), so wind chill
| maybe - 60 or more. (exposed skin frozen ~dead
| immediately.) Roads not only snowy and icy, but blowing
| snow, so poor visibility. Equipment breaks from the cold,
| for example if you go through a pot hole - and can't avoid
| that because there are no sidewalks or shoulders because
| snow. This weather can last for 2,3,4 months. We do play
| outside when we can, with preparation, but commuting, and
| shopping for essentials, is not playing.
| hydrok9 wrote:
| I'm a lifelong central canada resident and I can confirm
| both the truth of this AND the fact that people do bike
| all winter round. It really is a case of acclimatization
| and preparedness (fitness being included in this).
| [deleted]
| phonypc wrote:
| Shameless opportunity to share one of my favourite youtube
| videos from the last few years:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
|
| TL;DW Oulu, Finland is as cold and snowy as any population
| center in Canada. Plenty of people bike there year round.
| The issue is municipal infrastructure, not climate.
| jimhefferon wrote:
| At my house it is currently 6F. There is six inches of snow
| and freezing rain on everything, so roads are icy. Biking
| would be stupid.
| pcmoney wrote:
| Studded tires work great. People use them at ski resorts
| and mountain towns from Colorado to Alaska.
| neatze wrote:
| For me personally nothing beats swimming for an hour, twice or
| more per week.
| ewhanley wrote:
| You should check out Barbell Medicine. They have a great
| beginner / restart template [0]. It's a couple of doctors and
| an extended team that cut through a lot of the bro science that
| surrounds fitness and, specifically, strength training. Their
| content is great and they have a book in the works.
|
| [0] https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/returning-to-the-gym/
| generalenvelope wrote:
| Absolutely the best content I've found. So many free
| resources.
|
| In addition, their youtube channel is a great place to start.
| kvgr wrote:
| I second this, their content is no bullcrap and easy to read.
| There is lot of fads in fitness for beginners to get caught
| on.
| drBonkers wrote:
| Third vote of support for BBM. I went to comment them as a
| resource before finding your post.
| abootstrapper wrote:
| I recommend the heaviest book you can find, and pick it up
| often!
| agumonkey wrote:
| I leveraged water bottles. 1.5L to make warm up like arm
| exercises or weight to hold for punches. Very very nice IMO.
|
| ps: I don't know who does the russian trick (30 push ups
| whenever they have to wait a little .. elevators, mw ovens
| etc)
| gabythenerd wrote:
| Starting Strength has a really comprehensive explanation of the
| main lifts: squats, press, bench press, power cleans and
| deadlift. It explains the mechanics behind a good lift and
| gives a little bit of advice about programming.
|
| It was one of the first books I ever read about fitness and it
| influenced all the workouts I did after it. IMHO strenght
| training makes going to the gym a lot more fun, as you can
| compete with yourself.
| chillwaves wrote:
| As someone else mentioned, hire a trainer. There is only so
| much you can learn from reading vs doing. Having someone guide
| you will increase the effectiveness of your effort by 10x.
| CalChris wrote:
| If you are going to a gym, I'd recommend classes. You don't
| have to think much. You just have to do which is good when you
| don't know anything. You just know you have to be there at 9am;
| it'll be an hour; and you'll get told what to do.
| spin classes rowing classes bodypump (light
| weights) yoga
|
| These are easy ways to get into the gym and get something done
| without wondering around the weight room wondering what this
| thing is for.
|
| If you do take these classes don't expect a lot of coaching.
| Instead, remember what the exercise was and look it up on
| Youtube.
|
| BTW, if you want to get into weight lifting, start with
| bodypump for a few months. You won't learn anything, nada. But
| that's not important; basic reps are. Then get a 5x5 app like
| _StrongLifts_. The nice thing about StrongLifts is you 'll have
| a routine and it tracks you. Again, you aren't aimlessly
| wondering around the weight room.
|
| Finally, when you can complain about the difference between
| StrongLifts vs StartingStrength it will be time for you to
| leave.
| bckr wrote:
| > Finally, when you can complain about the difference between
| StrongLifts vs StartingStrength it will be time for you to
| leave.
|
| Leave what, and do what instead?
| Smaug123 wrote:
| Leave all the classes and apps and everything that's
| organised, and do it all yourself; you'll have enough
| knowledge and motivation by that point.
| CalChris wrote:
| _Kung Fu_ reference. When you can take the pebble from my
| hand ...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9selPW2lL-M
| gdudeman wrote:
| There are a lot of recommendations for Starting Strength here
| and I think the book is great for describing how to do a
| certain kind of lift.
|
| I read it and was still lost about frequency, how to minimize
| injury, etc. It doesn't give you the practical "do this" sort
| of advice a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner
| needed.
|
| I really like Julian Shapiro's guide for the first few months
| of weight lifting: https://www.julian.com/guide/muscle/intro
|
| I'd recommend the trainer part though - I tweaked my shoulder
| trying to just figure it out on my own.
| bumby wrote:
| > _It doesn 't give you the practical "do this" sort of
| advice a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner
| needed._
|
| His other book "Practical Programming" does. I find his
| writing needlessly verbose, but he does cover a lot of
| different programming options.
| exhilaration wrote:
| So I'm a big Starting Strength believer, it was
| transformational for me (specifically the deadlift, it's
| life-changing), but in addition to the book the YouTube
| channel is great:
| https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC5FaqTBy0c1jlRUHKu4SuXQ
|
| Since this is a technical crowd, I would suggest firing up
| YouTube-DL and downloading every video from the channel. The
| content is so incredibly valuable that I could see them
| putting it behind a subscription at some point. Once you have
| it locally you can just sort by filename and watch all the
| instructional videos on the squat or deadlift etc.
| npsimons wrote:
| > It doesn't give you the practical "do this" sort of advice
| a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner needed.
|
| _What_ are you talking about? He lists an example two week
| program complete with sets and reps in that book, plus
| outlines exactly how to find the weight you should be lifting
| with. Form is _rigorously_ specified, to the point I 've
| managed to stay injury free from lifting while never having
| been coached.
|
| As someone who had done practically no strength training
| (benching with friends every once in a blue moon), SS:BBT
| took me from completely ignorant to regular lifter.
| bumby wrote:
| There's plenty of weight training resources already available
| so I'll add a cardio resource: Daniels Running Formula.
|
| Also, don't forget flexibility/mobility work in addition to
| strength and cardio. Starretts Supple Leopard book is a good
| resource, as is general yoga classes.
| christoph wrote:
| For me, the three book series "Tactical Barbell" are pretty
| much unbeatable. Pick one of the three books depending on what
| your current goals are.
| scruple wrote:
| Came to mention TB, as well. I've been running it for years
| (I originally learned about it from a HN comment) and believe
| that I will probably use it, or some variation of the
| protocols, for the rest of my life.
|
| That said, if I were new to barbell training, I would pick up
| the Starting Strength book and read it cover to cover to
| understand the mechanics of the main compound lifts. Then I
| would pick up the Greyskull LP program and run it (it's more
| or less the SS program but with some sanity in the
| progression and it doesn't ignore conditioning) until I was
| regularly hitting plateaus on the main lifts. Then I'd
| transition to the TB protocols starting with base building
| and going from there based on my goals and other fitness
| related endeavors.
|
| edit/ I'd also encourage people to read TB I: Strength, TB
| II: Conditioning, Mass Protocol, and the Ageless Athlete
| entry. I incorporate pieces of all 4 of these books into my
| training week.
|
| Additionally, there is another book specific to law
| enforcement that has interesting information in it. And, on
| top of that, there are 2 new books being worked on at the
| moment.
| 0xk4s7 wrote:
| Just read reddit's FAQ on bodybuilding or fitness, depending on
| what you want.
| kelp wrote:
| This is good advice and has much / most of the info you
| really need.
| dolni wrote:
| I have only ever heard good things about rowing. Because exercise
| is a chore for me, I want to minimize the amount of time I have
| spend doing it.
|
| I got a rowing machine recently. It hits a ton of muscles all at
| once, and is not bad for cardio. It won't challenge your heart as
| much as running will, but it gets the blood pumping.
|
| I am no fitness expert, but it feels like a really good solution
| for me. I hope to work up to 20-30 minutes of rowing at least
| every other day.
| lispm wrote:
| Rowing is great. But it is very useful to get instructions how
| to use it correctly. One might need a bit tutoring.
| subpixel wrote:
| Rowing is awesome but even a non-impact activity can be bad for
| you if it's all you do.
|
| (I tweaked my hips during 2020 lockdown by overdoing it on my
| Concept2).
|
| My advice is an app like Keelo, which creates HIIT workouts
| based on the equipment you tell it you have - including a
| rowing machine. I have my rower, some dumbbells, a plyo box, a
| kettle bell, and some rings.
|
| Every workout is different than the last, you can use your own
| Spotify playlists, and it will kick your ass in all the best
| ways.
| aunty_helen wrote:
| Can definitely vouch for rowing. I always start my workouts
| with a 2km row. Great for shoulders and legs.
|
| I'm suprised how I go to gyms and find they don't have a rowing
| machine
| jdminhbg wrote:
| I'd say I'm more disappointed than surprised -- rowing
| machines have a huge space footprint compared to other
| equipment. You can stack 3 or 4 treadmills in the same space.
| conradfr wrote:
| Really? The modern treadmills with footrest on the sides?
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| "I want to minimize the amount of time I have spend doing it."
|
| Just to quickly share what worked for me since many of us don't
| have room for a row machine: a pull-up bar and a 30lb kettle
| bell. Every 4hrs between 9AM and 9PM my Alexa reminds me to
| work out. I then do 3 out of 4 of the following: a set of push-
| ups, 100 crunches, 25-pullup (or 100 row style push ups with my
| feet on a tall bar stool), and/or 100 kettle bell swings. The
| routine is usually over in 7 minutes if I stay focused. It's
| short enough where I don't sweat so no need to change clothes
| and shower.
|
| To be clear when the workout reminder chimes, sometimes I don't
| want to do any of it. But then I remind myself "you can do
| _something_ " and I at least do the push-ups and pull-ups. I
| couldn't be more pleased with the results especially given how
| little effort is required.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > Because exercise is a chore for me, I want to minimize the
| amount of time I have spend doing it.
|
| One of my biggest complaints about internet health and fitness
| discourse is how much it exaggerated the time commitment for
| exercising.
|
| A fitness routine like you described (20 minutes, 3 times per
| week) is actually plenty of time to make a significant
| improvement in fitness levels. The key is consistency over the
| long term.
|
| Too much of the fitness discourse on traditional media and
| social media revolves around extremes and glorifies the misery
| component of extreme exercise. Popular programs like CrossFit
| are all about pushing the limits and the grind. That's fine for
| some people, but it's not even close to necessary.
|
| A basic exercise regimen of 1-2 hours total per week will make
| a world of difference compared to no exercise at all. Really,
| you don't even need to go for intense exercises like rowing.
| It's entirely possible to get fit and stay fit by doing mild to
| moderate weight lifting routines where you may barely break a
| sweat.
|
| I wish we'd do a better job of normalizing the mild to moderate
| exercise routines instead of the way the discussions are all
| about pushing yourself until you're miserable.
| tomp wrote:
| I recently bought a rowing machine (Concept2, "top of the top")
| ... and I'm very disappointed.
|
| It's just not challenging enough (and I'm not very fit).
| Running/cycling (on a machine), I can easily ramp up the
| difficulty enough so that I'm sweating in 10 minutes. Rowing, I
| barely sweat even after 20 minutes (on max hardness, 27ish
| strokes/minute).
|
| One of the best "time savers" for cardio is HIIT, and you just
| can't do that rowing.
| inetsee wrote:
| I was on my rowing team in college, and I have a couple of
| opinions.
|
| 1) 27 strokes per minute is not max. I'm 70 years old and I
| do 30 to 33 on the rowing machine where I work out. When I
| was in college, our training sessions were all at 30 to 35
| strokes per minute. Training sessions lasted for 1 to 2
| hours, six days a week.
|
| 2) As for HIIT, during a race we would often do a "power 10",
| where we would apply maximum power to our strokes for 10
| strokes. We only did 10 strokes because at the power levels
| we were expected to apply, doing more than 10 would burn us
| out rather quickly.
|
| I still do rowing because it's an aerobic exercise that works
| most of your muscles; arms, back, legs, stomach. The only
| exercise I've heard of that does more all around is cross
| country skiing, and I hate the cold.
| subpixel wrote:
| You can HIIT row, see Apple Fitness+ if you can stand the
| wellness vibe.
|
| But if you want challenging, join the Concept2 challenges. I
| was doing 10k rows several times a week as a middle-of-the-
| pack competitor and if that doesn't challenge you then you
| should go pro.
|
| But as I mentioned in another comment, you can injure
| yourself on a Concept2 if you don't cross-train. It's not a
| magic device.
| tesin wrote:
| I'd have someone check your rowing form - I can't really
| imagine how rowing could be too easy. If you're applying your
| legs as you should, and trying hard, it's as difficult as you
| want it to be
| dolni wrote:
| Rowing is pretty dependent on good form, I have noticed after
| not doing it too long.
|
| Pulling faster/harder will make it more difficult. Try that,
| I guess?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| We bought a home rower from a Show HN thread and it's been one
| of the best purchases we've ever made. Highly recommend rowing.
| mrlinx wrote:
| which one?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://avironactive.com/product-impact
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25905467
|
| (Launch HN, not Show HN)
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| (former rower) Just be aware that rowing can ruin your knees.
| It's quite "explosive", so it might be worth investigating
| physio to ensure minimal damage.
|
| Of course genetics play a huge role here.
| redisman wrote:
| Isn't all cardio bad for knees? I definitely feel less pain
| after a 40 minute row than a run
| elektronaut wrote:
| Cycling is very low impact, as long as your bike fits and
| you're not grinding away in a heavy gear.
| kungito wrote:
| How about swimming?
| WanderPanda wrote:
| In my experience: Hard to max out your heart because you
| are always oxygen constrained when front-crawling. I did
| high intensity breast stroke for 1-2 months each day,
| instead, and suddenly developed terrible back pain, so
| that does not seem like a solution either, but it might
| also be due to my subpar technique.
| kungito wrote:
| Sounds like we have a similar problem: start doing
| something and immediately do it very intensively and
| cause more harm than good to your body. High intensity +
| each day sounds like a bad idea almost always. The only
| people who do it with a good reason are professional
| athletes and they still have injuries all the time
| generalenvelope wrote:
| Please see:
| https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forums/training-q-a-
| with-d...
|
| This idea is not founded in science. However, as Dr. Baraki
| outlines - dosage is very relevant regarding pain and
| injury
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| As others have said, low-impact cardio is fine on your
| knees (swimming, cycling, cross-trainer).
|
| Rowing and squash are the worst :)
| sol_invictus wrote:
| Rowing is cardio
| jdhn wrote:
| I was surprised that there's such a difference between low and
| below average. You'd think that there would be less of a gap
| between the two.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| I suspect they mis-interpreted that part but admittedly I
| haven't listened to the whole thing.
|
| The reason there is such a big difference between below average
| and low is because in the "low" group, there's almost certainly
| something wrong with that group. A heart/lung condition,
| cancer, morbidly obese, i.e. issues with major body systems.
| Leary wrote:
| There's also usually a big difference in all-cause mortality
| between no exercise at all vs. a tiny bit every week.
| the_jeremy wrote:
| Only marginally relevant: does anyone know how to change speed of
| a podcast like this? I have the Video Speed Controller extension
| and it works on videos perfectly, but I don't know how to change
| speed on an audio-only player like this.
| dv_dt wrote:
| The podcast app I use has options for that (iCatcher). Many
| apps will do it and will pull from RSS feeds or open podcast
| directories.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Should we be tracking our vo2 or rather just get in the best
| shape you can and assume vo2 is good?
| et-al wrote:
| If you need metrics to guide you, maybe. But most folks I know
| who run or bike regularly haven't bothered getting tested
| unless they're hardcore data nerds.
|
| I know this is hand-wavy, but if you're already working up a
| sweat for at least 30 minutes twice a week, you're doing
| alright. If you're also lifting heavy things with proper form,
| you're doing great.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| A simpler way of tracking performance is just seeing how many
| continuous push-ups you can do:
|
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
|
| "Participants able to complete more than 40 push-ups were
| associated with a significant reduction in incident
| cardiovascular disease event risk compared with those
| completing fewer than 10 push-ups."
|
| That's not to say that if you can't do 40 push-ups you're
| unfit. I was pretty fit when I did this test myself, and I
| could only do about 30 (I'm 48 years old, and 30 is still
| pretty good for my age). Now after doing it daily for a few
| months I can do 60. But even when I could only do 30 I was
| still pretty fit...I just didn't have the endurance in my
| arm/chest muscles to do any more than that.
|
| Here is a chart showing how many push-ups you should be able to
| do based on your age:
|
| https://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/home-pushup.htm
| coldtea wrote:
| > _" If you have the aspiration of kicking ass when you're 85,
| you can't afford to be average when you're 50." --Peter Attia_
|
| Statistically, and regardless of being non-average at 50 or not,
| the main thing you'll be kicking is the bucket when you're 85.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| It still makes a big difference when you are 85. Probably even
| more so:
|
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
|
| "Among physically active vs sedentary participants...at age 85
| years, the 3-year mortality was 6.8% vs 24.4%"
| foobiekr wrote:
| This says nothing about cause and effect however. The people
| who are physically active at 85 are likely not people who had
| to make an effort to follow an activity plan.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| >This says nothing about cause and effect however.
|
| It does.
|
| "A significant survival benefit was associated with
| initiating PA between ages 70 and 78 years (P = .04) and
| ages 78 and 85 years (P < .001). "
| alfor wrote:
| One way I recently tried that I like
|
| 10-15min all out 110% of what I think I can do. You push yourself
| past what you think is possible.
|
| Rest for 5-10 days.
|
| Incredible result, minimum time
|
| Work for cardio, muscle mass, etc.
|
| The idea is to give your body a clear signal that things need to
| change (like in a survival situation) and then give your body the
| time and food to do the transformation.
|
| The rest of your week you do physical things you like, walk,
| tennis, bike, etc
| monktastic1 wrote:
| I love this idea. I've tried something similar in the past, but
| with not nearly as much rest. Perhaps unsurprisingly, as I age
| the results get worse. Maybe I should try again with more rest.
| alfor wrote:
| That is what I heard ( I don't remember the trainer). He said
| that the major thing that slow progress is not enough rest.
| Most people who go at the gym overtrain and don't rest
| enough.
| martin_bech wrote:
| Its really great for results, and motivation. Unfortunately
| with age, its also how I get injured very easily if going full
| tilt.
| generalenvelope wrote:
| This is a concise video on the topic: "Is training to failure
| a good idea?" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6OwaUlX4Qic for
| context, RPE = rate of perceived exertion, on a scale of
| 1-10. RPE 10 being "I can't do another rep"
|
| TLDR: training to failure isn't worth it for most people
|
| These guys have world class experience and knowledge
| regarding health and training, highly recommend.
| waihtis wrote:
| What do you do this with? Running?
| alfor wrote:
| I did a mix of push up, pull up, crunch and a few movement
| with free weight( mostly upper body) for 12 min.
|
| The idea was to be completely exhausted, lying on the floor
| after it. For each exercice it was only one/two serie to
| failure.
|
| I will try for running this week.
| drBonkers wrote:
| Fitness programming normally follows a methodology that is the
| exact opposite of this to reduce injury rates. Steady,
| consistent incremental increases to intensity, volume, or
| frequency over the course of a 2-3 month macro cycle.
|
| I'm not saying yours is a bad idea, but, from everything I know
| about fitness, this sounds like designing for injury.
| alfor wrote:
| Obviously, you don't go 110% the first time.
|
| You should ease into it, push harder as the weeks go on and
| you gain more experience in the movement.
|
| The idea is that you body doesn't require hours and hours of
| exercise to make change, just enough signal that the your
| current strength is not enough, and enough time and food for
| your cells to do the work.
|
| I wouldn't do it with an amount of weight that is dangerous
| or with fast movement.
| qrybam wrote:
| Cheap and effective: kettlebell workouts and running. Keep it
| regular even if you only do a bit.
| timeq wrote:
| For ever I believed group rides were all I'd ever need. Then
| pandemic and almost a year of just sitting around because
| riding trainer or rollers sucks.
|
| Since then I've built up a home gym around kettlebells, a squat
| rack, and my rollers. I also get out and run 1 or 2x per week.
| I have never felt better or more fit.
|
| Mix it up. Do something every day. Build slowly to give
| yourself time to adapt. You will be amazed at what will happen.
| anonuser123456 wrote:
| Give rucking a try.
| arepublicadoceu wrote:
| This link directs me to several bullet points and a truncated
| podcast. It seems like the real podcast is behind a paywall.
|
| I'm not sure what there's to discuss about the content itself as
| I can't listen to it. Am I doing something wrong?
| npsimons wrote:
| > I'm not sure what there's to discuss about the content itself
| as I can't listen to it. Am I doing something wrong?
|
| No, and you're not the only one. I've come to despise podcasts,
| because they are almost always very badly organized, if at all.
| I feel that we need a response to them, along the lines of
| "this could have been an email", except "this could have been a
| blog post."
|
| Yes, your information might be insightul, but if I have to
| listen to 90 minutes of a couple of guys shooting the shit
| about it, it's next to useless in terms of actionable or
| meaningful content to me.
|
| I really need a "TL;DR" for podcasts. Something along the line
| of the five minute precis from Gibson's "Count Zero".
| oojuliuso wrote:
| burpees
| mattwest wrote:
| I'll preface with: Of course, the most important thing is to find
| something that you enjoy or at least don't mind doing.
|
| However, with fitness, there is so much junk to sort through that
| even really smart people have no idea what it means to be fit or
| get fit.
|
| It all depends on your goals, but for the most part you can
| divide it into cardio, strength, and flexibility - all of which
| interact with each other.
|
| If you want good cardio, you need to increase your capacity. If
| you are out of shape and decide to redline your heart with multi-
| mile runs, you are being inefficient. Learn about the aerobic
| threshold and find out what yours is. Then, train steadily at
| that threshold to increase your capacity. Walking on an elevated
| treadmill or biking are the easiest ways to maintain a steady
| pace. Also, use a chest-strap heart monitor. When your aerobic
| threshold is high, then your ability to burn calories goes way
| up. The difference in the calories burned per hour between a
| conditioned individual and non-conditioned is something like
| 100cal vs 600cal. Do you want to be able to burn 100 cal/hour or
| 600?
|
| With strength, it's all about progressive overload. Don't
| overcomplicate it. You can't confuse your muscles. You can't take
| shortcuts. Consistency and avoiding injury are how you get
| strong.
| tus666 wrote:
| Japan proves all this wrong.
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