[HN Gopher] Venus on QEMU: Enabling the new virtual Vulkan driver
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       Venus on QEMU: Enabling the new virtual Vulkan driver
        
       Author : farmerbb
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2021-11-28 07:15 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.collabora.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.collabora.com)
        
       | bonzini wrote:
       | KVM maintainer here, is there a report of the EFAULT issue with
       | AMD processors?
        
       | zbrozek wrote:
       | I love watching the QEMU ecosystem develop. I use it for running
       | a handful of VMs on a host server: a Windows machine to run my
       | label printers and their terrible software, opnsense to be my
       | router, and then a couple test beds that I use to try new
       | software in a clean environment.
       | 
       | Someday maybe it'll be possible to accelerate guest Windows
       | DirectX graphics without hardware support for SRIOV. That'll be
       | great for my CAD workloads.
        
       | devit wrote:
       | Is this secure? (i.e. does this prevent a malicious VM from fully
       | taking over the host, writing arbitrary GPU memory, reading
       | arbitrary GPU memory, corrupting other GPU memory or state,
       | crashing the GPU)
       | 
       | Apparently the web people decided to create WebGPU instead of
       | adopting Vulkan in part due to security issues, and I see no
       | mention of security on the Mesa documentation.
        
         | badsectoracula wrote:
         | My understanding of WebGPU isn't that it was adopted over
         | Vulkan due to security issues but because Apple (who
         | essentially designed it) doesn't want to touch anything related
         | to Khronos due to some litigation between them. Which is
         | probably why WebGPU is made under W3C instead of Khronos (who
         | made WebGL).
        
           | seoaeu wrote:
           | That was the alleged (but false) reason they picked WGSL over
           | SPIR-V, not the justification for designing WebGPU. Vulkan's
           | C API isn't really compatible at all with JavaScript and has
           | memory safety concerns and so forth. WebGPU has a slightly
           | restricted, but vastly nicer interface. Plus there are a
           | bunch of downsides to require browsers to emulate Vulkan over
           | DirectX or Metal.
        
           | flohofwoe wrote:
           | Security definitely played the biggest role in WebGPU's
           | design process. The other goal was identifying the common
           | feature set of D3D12, Metal and Vulkan. The resulting API is
           | the result of those two goals.
           | 
           | (disclaimer: I haven't been part of the WebGPU design
           | process, only followed it closely through the publicly
           | available meeting notes and discussions).
        
           | sheepdestroyer wrote:
           | Apple is so toxic for the ecosystem. This is Oracle level
           | unpleasantness.
        
             | IntelMiner wrote:
             | The difference is they've gone from being a niche nobody
             | making contrarian decisions like Firewire over USB to a
             | market trend setter removing headphone jacks and adding
             | phone notches
        
               | simondotau wrote:
               | When did Apple choose FireWire over USB? Apple has never
               | shipped a computer with FireWire which did not also have
               | USB.
        
               | IntelMiner wrote:
               | Apple was one of the pioneers of Firewire originally
               | wanting to replace ADB with it
               | 
               | They never "left out" USB but they strongly preferred
               | Firewire and their devices (such as the original iPod)
               | came in Firewire first
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | The iPod used Firewire because it would have taken ages
               | to sync using USB 1.x.
        
               | indymike wrote:
               | There was a period in time where Macbooks had FireWire
               | 800 and USB 2. Apple chose not to be first with USB 3, so
               | the choice was more expensive, fast FireWire or cheap and
               | slow USB 2 devices. FireWire was significantly faster
               | than USB 2, USB 3 was faster than FireWire. Eventually
               | Apple dropped FireWire completely, and added Thunderbolt
               | connectors. That did anger quite a few people who were
               | invested in expensive FireWire devices. My favorite
               | Macbook Pro was a 2015 13" it had USB 2 ports and two
               | thunderbolt ports for high speed devices. Honestly, the
               | only thing I ever used the thunderbolt port for was
               | driving extra displays.
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | Things have improved by now, but my experience with the
               | earlier USB 3 devices is that compared to their FireWire
               | counterparts they were extremely flaky -- wildly
               | inconsistent transfer rates, intermittent disconnections,
               | and general weirdness, especially for sustained
               | workloads. I could see FireWire being preferred over USB
               | 3 for that alone, even if USB 3 was faster on paper.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | My experience with Firewire was that not a single
               | peripheral I owned was compatible. So yeah, I probably
               | would have preferred a few more USB ports instead of a
               | dedicated plug for the iPod I don't own.
        
         | monocasa wrote:
         | I wouldn't consider any qemu based vmm a security boundary. I
         | think of VM code as running with the same permissions/access as
         | the qemu process itself.
        
         | my123 wrote:
         | It's no more secure than the security isolation guarantees
         | given by the GPU driver stack to a regular process. No more
         | guarantees are provided than that.
         | 
         | I'd consider the VMM as even more untrusted than before when
         | VirGL is used, with always assuming that the guest has code
         | exec in the VMM. With all the implications that this entails.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-28 23:02 UTC)