[HN Gopher] The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018)
___________________________________________________________________
The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018)
Author : BerislavLopac
Score : 254 points
Date : 2021-11-26 05:18 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
| boringg wrote:
| Honestly - I like the Mokapot my dad uses it religiously - but
| reading this comment thread makes it sounds like Mokapot is
| getting its lunch eaten by more wasteful products (and it is) but
| I wager it is that they aren't in the same product category even
| though they are all under the coffee umbrella. Also its in a
| highly differentiated/competitive marketplace over the last 15
| years where before that (in its glory days) there wasn't much
| competition to stack up against.
|
| However the reason it is getting its lunch eaten is that people
| prioritize convenience and the Mokapot is a different product
| category although under the coffee vertical. A Mokapot takes bit
| of education and a bit of time in the morning to dial it in. The
| general coffee consumption market is not interested / technically
| savy to do this. It's losing because its a more complicated and
| higher quality product --> different consumers. I don't think
| those junky nespresso buyers would even be in the mokapot
| category to begin with. Its similar to how lyft/uber brought more
| people into riding cabs (also took cab market share).
| toyg wrote:
| _> a more complicated and higher quality product [...] those
| junky nespresso buyers_
|
| It was inevitable that a thread on coffee would attract the
| snobbery.
|
| I was literally raised with moka and coffee from Italian bars,
| and Nespresso is _absolutely fine_. For me, like for loads of
| other Italian migrants in "barbaric" Northern lands (where
| "baristas" couldn't make a decent cup to save their lives), it
| has been an absolute lifesaver. I know plenty of Italian
| foodies with absolutely no qualms about it. You can criticize
| the environmental impact (sure), the cost (eh), the commercial
| model (you in SaaS too?), the tax-dodging, whatever. But when
| it comes to quality, it's really just the worst hipster
| snobbery that stops people from accepting that it's actually
| pretty good. The machines can last for ages with minimal
| maintenance, and the coffee is good and consistent with zero
| effort. The rest is just audiophile-level bullcrap.
| aww_dang wrote:
| I don't find it complicated to use. Like any other stove top
| item, you can't leave it on to burn. I can see how this might
| be difficult for some in a morning rush.
|
| When I need a break from the computer, I find the ritual
| relaxing.
|
| Can't see myself buying a Nestle contraption.
| enriquto wrote:
| > Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive,
| difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy
| perspective.
|
| Every one of these four statements is so comically false that you
| cannot help to attribute a dose of bad faith in the author. You
| can buy a real espresso machine that fits in a 15cm x 30cm base
| (like two bottles of water side by side) for about 100EUR, which
| is definitely easier to use than a moka pot, and does not waste
| energy by heating the air in the kitchen.
| maslam wrote:
| Which one did you get?
| calmoo wrote:
| What machine are you referring to?
| enriquto wrote:
| I don't want to make publicity of a brand here, but I just
| went to a local shop and got the smallest one that got to 19
| bar. It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you
| buy appropriately ground coffee).
|
| EDIT: just look for "thin espresso machine" on a search
| engine, there's plenty of choice!
| 2rsf wrote:
| Nespresso's promise 19 bar as well, but they use a simple
| PTC element to heat the water as they pass over it so in
| reality it's "up to 19 bar"
| ValentineC wrote:
| > _It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you
| buy appropriately ground coffee)._
|
| Most cheap espresso machines achieve crema and pressure via
| a pressurised portafilter [1].
|
| Nothing wrong with having one as a beginner, but you're
| stuck with using coarser grinds because of the always-there
| pressure, and it limits the number of variables you're able
| to play with to "dial in" beans.
|
| [1] https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-
| big-of-a...
| enriquto wrote:
| I'm definitely a "beginner", but still can see that from
| moka pot to cheap espresso there is a world of
| difference, and from cheap expresso to "serious" espresso
| the difference is very subtle (to my tastebuds).
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| They are probably referring to the Delonghi Dedica. Out of
| the box it comes with a pressurized basket. If you are not
| familiar with coffee machines, this type of basket will not
| give you espresso like at an espresso bar. Coffee ground for
| espresso on this machine will choke it. Instead it is
| designed to be more forgiving of grind size. You can put
| store bought pre-ground coffee in it. The basket itself
| provides resistance and the value will open when it hits 9bar
| internally.
|
| You can get a normal basket for it since the pump can hit the
| required pressures for espresso. But they use their own
| basket size, so just be careful what you get. The steam wand
| also uses a froth-aider so you won't be getting the silky
| microfoam that can pour art. I've used the Dedica before and
| it's ok.
|
| For my money I'd get the Breville Bambino if you want this
| style of machine. I believe the latest model comes with a
| pressurized and normal basket. And the automated milk steamer
| is actually quite impressive. Milk foams up well enough to
| pour art and it does an admirable job at soy milk.
| Gigachad wrote:
| I got an espresso machine at the start of last year and I just
| can't imagine using anything else now. They aren't immediacy
| obvious how to use, but after a quick read of the manual,
| anyone could do it. And the thing uses such a trivial amount of
| energy I could just turn my house heating off for a day to save
| several years worth of coffee making.
| ykevinator2 wrote:
| I had one of these blow up. There was a loud pop and then
| literally coffee grounds all over the ceiling and cupboards.
| bruprup wrote:
| How? Was it fake?
|
| You must understand my amazement. To blow up, the Moka must not
| have had a functioning safety valve (check the side).
| Furthermore, the grid must have been so crusted up that, in the
| days (months!) leading up to the fateful event, it would have
| taken a very long time to brew what would have necessarily been
| an extremely bitter coffee.
|
| The only was I see this happening is it:
|
| - The Moka is fake and it blew up on its first use (since the
| grid must not have had the holes pressed into it)
|
| - You weren't aware that the grid is removable and didn't clean
| it. I also like to push against the safety valve form the
| inside every now and then.
|
| But if #2 why did you put up with a bitter coffee that would
| take ages to brew?
| anschwa wrote:
| The moka pot is super cool and I thought it made great
| coffee...until I discovered that I preferred almost every other
| possible brew method.
|
| The moka pot is very hard to dial in and almost always burns the
| coffee. It requires care, focus, and attention. They're much more
| inconsistent than pour over and even the lever espresso machines
| I've used are less work.
|
| I think moka pots are fun and worth experimenting with but I find
| it hard to believe people really love the results. But if you are
| always adding milk and sugar, then I can definitely see the
| appeal.
| asdff wrote:
| Electric ones are great. Turn on and walk away.
| kseistrup wrote:
| I've been making coffee on moka pots (both aluminum and
| stainless steel) daily for the past 30+ years and I have never
| experienced the problems you are talking about. On the
| contrary: I've tried a number of other coffee makers (french
| press, aeropress, percolator, ...), but after a short time I
| wall always return to the moka pot.
|
| Just now, because of this thread, I have ordered a Kamira
| Espresso maker. We'll see how it goes.
| praptak wrote:
| Two tips that worked for me: fill it with boiling water and use
| Lavazza Qualita Oro. Other combinations do indeed taste sour or
| burned.
| Tor3 wrote:
| What is it that makes it hard to dial in? Is it the amount of
| heat? I had very little experience with moka pots until
| recently, even though I lived in Italy and the apartment I
| rented included at least five Bialetti pots varying in size
| from small to large - I didn't understand how they worked, so I
| never tried, and it was easier to just go outside to the
| nearest coffee bar.
|
| But this summer I rented a motor home for the holidays (yeah
| yeah covid vacation - _again_ ), which came with a Bialetti. So
| I looked up how to use it, and every morning I would make a
| couple of cups for myself and the wife, on the gas stove.
|
| Perfect coffee every time, very easy, no problems whatsoever.
| The gas stove I used was on max every time, no changes, so
| maybe that's why it was consistent.. but I don't really see how
| it matters, as the heat is just making steam after all. So how
| can you get burned coffee?
| tokai wrote:
| Optimal brewing temperature is ~93.0degC. So steam is too
| hot.
| messe wrote:
| Done properly, steam shouldn't be going through the coffee
| grounds in a moka pot. The expansion of the air (and
| evaporation of the water as well admittedly) in the lower
| chamber pushes the hot water up through them.
| tokai wrote:
| If the water steams enough to rise the pressure its
| definitely not 93 degrees. Also the grounds are heated by
| the moka itself.
| smorgusofborg wrote:
| I would think that is the best brewing temperature at 0
| bar? An espresso machine is going to reach higher
| temperatures and makes a good coffee.
|
| https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
| ycombinete wrote:
| The main problem I have is that our range uses halogen
| elements. Which reach a specific temp then cycle on and off
| to stay there. You're either too low temp. So the water boils
| then stops. Or too high, so it bubbles over and burns the
| coffee.
| Veen wrote:
| They work best on gas hobs where you can control the flame
| height and provide consistent heating.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| You can get burned coffee because the same container you use
| to heat the water to make the steam also holds the coffee and
| that still heats up. If you start with cold water that's more
| time for the coffee grinds to heat up and if you don't take
| it off the stove when it's done and cool it down right away
| that's time for the brewed coffee to start to burn as it's
| sitting in a heated hot pot.
|
| Most other methods don't have you heat the coffee and the
| water together so you can only really burn it if you put it
| on a heating element after.
| ValentineC wrote:
| James Hoffmann [1] and many others recommend starting with
| really hot water at the bottom, so the coffee grinds have
| less time to heat up.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
| intrasight wrote:
| I make my morning espresso daily in a Bialetti. Has been since
| visiting my sis in Italy 5 years ago. Glad to hear they are
| making a comeback.
| jrudolph wrote:
| > Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive,
| difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy
| perspective.
|
| Interestingly that's not my experience with Moka Coffe Pots. The
| 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat and is almost
| always too small for the heat source I have available. Electric
| stove fields are too wide, and camping gas heaters seem to wrap
| the flames more around the pot than boiling it properly. After
| the water is steaming, you also need to sustain the heat for a
| bit to let the steam travel through. In total, it feels like a
| lot of wasted heat energy for a little bit of coffee.
|
| I have a Flare Espresso machine (piston, manually operated) that
| just requires boiling water that I can get from a more efficient
| source like a pot matching the stove, a water boiler or even a
| good thermos (!) when travelling ;-) And the result I get out of
| that is a "proper" espresso because you can easily hit 10 bars of
| pressure, by applying gentle pressure on the lever.
| TwoFerMaggie wrote:
| > The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat
|
| Do you put cold water in the bottom thingy and heat it up on
| the stove? When I started using moka pots, I read that you
| should put pre-boiled hot water in there and then put it on
| medium to low heat on the stove. Even with that I still find it
| a bit too quick sometimes.
| eb0la wrote:
| My dad always had a moka pot at home. One day he bought a De
| Lonhgi Alicia moka pot - that you can plug to a wall socket! He
| never went back to "traditional" ones. I have another Alicia pot.
| I like it much more than capsules.
| vosper wrote:
| If I'm staying in an Airbnb and want to be able to make something
| like an espresso, are these any good? I'm not really a fan of
| plunger coffee, which seems like the other travel-friendly non-
| instant alternative?
|
| Or... buy an Aeropress instead?
| stephen_g wrote:
| With good coffee, (preferably freshly ground, but you do what
| you have to) and a bit of technique, yeah, they can make quite
| good coffee. It's stronger than pour over or french press, but
| still probably only a third to a half as strong as espresso.
|
| I've never had an aeropress so it's hard for me to compare
| quality etc., but when I've had coffee with friends who use
| them, the aeropress does seem bit more cumbersome and messy
| than the mokka pot.
| lukaslalinsky wrote:
| With aeropress, the brewing is more manual (you control how
| hot is the water, how long you keep it brewing, etc), which
| has its pros and cons. So you can make really good coffee, or
| really bad coffee.
|
| But one thing where aeropress shines is cleaning. I'd use my
| moka pot more often, purely for consistency without effort,
| if it was as easy to clean as aeropress.
| kzrdude wrote:
| However for people who already like aeropress, they are kind
| of popular to being for camping/hiking. But sharing coffee
| with more than one person takes time.
| yetihehe wrote:
| For me, aeropress is much less cumbersome than mokka pot and
| much easier to clean. Both make good coffee, but since I've
| found one specific coffee brand that I like (one of the
| cheaper ones), no other coffee tastes as good for me, but
| I'll drink anything that's available.
| limecat wrote:
| Whenever I go camping I always take a small moka pot with me.
| If you use good quality coffee then it never fails to deliver a
| very decent cup. It's not going to be equal to a coffee shop
| espresso, but it gets you 80% there. And you may be able to
| pick one up for 20 bucks. The only part that needs replacing
| every now and then is the rubber ring that seals the pot when
| you screw it together. Other than that they're virtually
| indestructible. At home I have the large De'Longhi, but if that
| can't be used there is always a moka pot on standby.
| septimus111 wrote:
| Moka pots make great coffee but I found it really hard to get
| the brewing right - the most important factor was the grind
| size. If I change it even slightly, I get much worse results
| and unlike Aeropress there are fewer other variables to adjust.
| So to answer your question I would say yes if you're also
| travelling with your own grinder.
| [deleted]
| carabiner wrote:
| Dirty secret about coffee brewing... it's 90% the quality of
| the beans. If you use stale Starbucks beans, you will never
| have good coffee. If you use ones from a local roaster that are
| fresh, and grind them at brew time, you'll have amazing coffee
| even if you just throw the grounds in a pot (cowboy coffee,
| Turkish coffee, or Ethiopian brewing are all valid methods that
| are unfiltered). Before you go crazy testing Aeropress vs. v60
| vs. chemex... Just try whatever brewing method you use with
| beans from a local roaster.
| [deleted]
| thom wrote:
| If I use Starbucks beans I get something that tastes like
| coffee. If I use fancy beans from coffee hipsters I get
| something that tastes like manure. Not a fan.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| Then something isn't right.
|
| You're probably buying lighter roasts, which are in vogue
| but are more difficult to brew.
| thom wrote:
| They must be spectacularly difficult to brew, because
| they taste just as bad when I have them at coffee shops.
| I basically can't order coffee in most places now because
| these flavours have taken over. I'd love to be able to
| live vicariously through someone else's palate and
| understand the appeal.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| I'll be honest, if they're using an automatic coffee
| maker (one where the puck is ground and processed
| internally), this very well could be the case. Also keep
| in mind that flavor profiles are generally targeted for
| espresso (either a double shot of something slightly
| watered down).
| vegai_ wrote:
| Real coffee does taste "bad" if you're not used to it.
| What you're enjoying is bland coffee. If that's enough
| for you, there's no imperative to go for the better
| stuff.
|
| There's no reason to claim that the better stuff is not
| better, that's just pointless anti-elitism. As a kid, I
| certainly enjoyed a McDonalds burger over a rare
| tenderloin. The tenderloin obviously was better though.
| thom wrote:
| I've been trying for several years! I have worked hard to
| acquire many acquired tastes, I don't want to have to
| flash my snob card here. But this taste just completely
| eludes me. My only hope is that other comments elsethread
| are right, and my town in Yorkshire maybe isn't home to
| the most talented or knowledgeable baristas and roasters,
| and they genuinely are serving garbage. In the meantime,
| when I need a coffee, I will have a cup of coffee and not
| a mouthful of the water at the bottom of my fridge's
| vegetable drawer.
| [deleted]
| MrDresden wrote:
| Using the the same methods and amounts for stale coffee
| (whole beans or ground) and fresh recently roasted beans
| will not work.
|
| You need to adjust it for each new roast, even when the
| bean is from the same origin as the previous batch you
| used. Fluctuations will be smaller though.
|
| Also be aware that some people do not enjoy some roast
| levels.
|
| I for one used to think I loved dark French roasts in my
| early twenties. Now I am more for the lighter floral notes
| in my filters and the earthier nutty notes in my espresso.
| But nothing ever as dark as French roast.
|
| Rules of thumb;
|
| * buy fresh whole bean
|
| * that are all from the same source
|
| * not a robusta
|
| * that has its roast date on the packaging
|
| * store in airtight container away from sunlight
|
| * do not freeze the beans
|
| * and use it within 3-4 weeks of that date (earlier for
| espresso)
|
| * enjoy the coffee you like and do not let anyone else tell
| you otherwise. But perhaps, experiment with your tastes.
| thom wrote:
| I'll be honest, I have this problem in most cafes the
| last few years as well, it's not just at home. It just
| all tastes disgustingly sour to me (and again, horrible
| hints of compost and manure). I assume I just don't like
| what modern coffee drinkers like, but I cannot imagine
| ever acquiring a taste for it however hard I try.
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| The advice I always had from local roasters is to store
| the beans in a fridge.
|
| I have the luxury to have a stepless grinder, and I can
| observe the difference when I have to adjust the grain
| size between beans that are freshly roasted, stored in
| fridge and stored at room temperature.
|
| At fridge temperatures, beans stay wet and oily much
| longer.
| MrDresden wrote:
| Fridge might be alright. I haven't tried.
|
| But surprisingly many believe that freezing the beans
| make for a good cup for longer.
|
| Which is not going to be the case when the bean has not
| thawed and is so brittle it gives an uneven grind (and
| thus uneven extraction).
|
| Better, if possible, is to buy smaller amounts more
| frequently and use them all up before getting more.
|
| It isn't like you get high quality whole bean in bulk
| anyway.
| 01100011 wrote:
| It depends on your tastes and expectations.
|
| I've had some really high end coffees that I thought tasted
| like garbage. Then again I wasn't prepared for what they
| were going to taste like. For instance, when I tried light
| roasts for the first time, I thought they were absolute
| trash. I only drank dark roasts though and based my
| expectations on that. I've since warmed up to them and now
| prefer a medium roast for my daily drink.
|
| Some people have different tastes. Some folks really like
| the burnt flavors of Starbucks and associate it with
| coffee, so everything else tastes terrible. That's
| especially true if you don't drink coffee black and require
| a certain flavor after adding heaps of cream and sugar.
| Other people are more sensitive to bitterness or acidity
| and need something to cater to their tastes.
|
| Personally I just stick with Peet's beans because I find
| them to be cheap and convenient and not all that bad. I
| still occasionally get a bag of terrible coffee from them,
| but it's terrible in the sense that I just can't get a cup
| of coffee that I like after adjusting all the
| parameters(temp, time, dilution(yeah, I use an aeropress),
| etc).
|
| Tastes are a subjective thing. I've had $400 Michelin
| dinners that tasted like shit, and $8 burritos that were
| some of the best things I've ever put in my mouth. People
| like to get all judgmental about it but really you just
| have to know yourself and go with it.
| jitl wrote:
| Were those beans stale?
| _dark_matter_ wrote:
| I'm the same way. I find that I can't even enjoy drinking
| the coffee at those shops. It's not a manure flavor, but
| there's definitely an acidity and strong flavor that I do
| not enjoy.
|
| And, ftr, I am tired of Starbucks coffees too. It's hard to
| find an in between.
| thom wrote:
| I mean, I don't know what manure tastes like obviously,
| but it's not a flavour I like being in my mouth. I've
| tried, I would love to be able to partake of this
| culture, but I just can't physically force 'third wave'
| coffee down my throat.
| unmole wrote:
| Try a South Indian coffee filter?
| _jstreet wrote:
| I love the aeropress for ease of use, would definitely
| recommend. I've only used a moka pot a few times (one provided
| at an airBnB actually), and I'm interested in getting one, but
| haven't yet.
|
| I think there's less temperature control with a Moka pot, and
| I'd say cleanup is more effort than a simple aeropress puck.
| bananaowl wrote:
| I love my aeropress. Light weight. Super easy to clean by just
| giving it a rinse. And most importantly, makes a very good
| clean cup of coffee no matter what.
|
| I like the moka as well. But it's harder to master. It will
| play different on different stoves. The original is in
| aluminum, so won't work on induction. But when you get the nack
| it will make you steaming darkness.
| irjustin wrote:
| I'll swear by the Aeropress esp for travel since it's plastic
| and lightweight. You can get the metal filters to be eco &
| travel friendly.
|
| In my personal order of importance for good coffee:
|
| 1. Beans
|
| 2. Water Temp
|
| 3. Method
|
| 4. Grind
|
| A distant 5 is process and by process I mean exact steps,
| timing etc. If you follow the world champion steps[0], even
| loosely, it will significantly up your coffee game. While you
| don't need a fancy grinder at all, I def covet the EK43.
|
| Also much love for a V60 for travel as well.
|
| [0] https://aeropress.com/pages/wac-recipes
| tigen wrote:
| Yeah for home use, futzing with the stove and rubber gasketed
| contraptions seems pointless. Pourover works well.
|
| I used to use aeropress but the rubber plunger degrades and
| builds up grime, I also find pourover more fun to use.
|
| Having a source of hot water ready to go makes it even
| easier.
| irjustin wrote:
| A good electric kettle with temp control is a must to get
| past the "futzing"
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| There's a great video with coffee expert James Hoffmann on
| making coffee in a moka pot:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
|
| However a moka pot generally doesn't make espresso as much as
| strong coffee. If you want something that makes espresso, check
| out the 9bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZMGx15QBU
|
| Of course you'll want a good hand grinder for either, but
| especially espresso. You can't get anything close to espresso
| with pre-ground or a cheap grinder.
| bebna wrote:
| There are mobile solutions for Espressos.
|
| - Presses, like Picopresso, where you need to use your own
| muscles to create the espresso. If you got any pains in your
| hands or wrists there are a no go.
|
| - Stovepots like Moka pots, but who create enough pressure,
| like 9Barista, expensive, needs to cool down between making
| shots
|
| - Aeropress alikes, like Cafflano Kompresso, who are cheaper
| and lighter than the rest, but it depends on your control how
| the resulting espresso tastes.
|
| Aeropress is for coffee. If coffee is good enough I recommend
| Espro P1 or P0, they filter is its money worth and they allow
| for making a mug of coffee on the go and keep it warm. I was
| able to make multiple on the go with just a small box of ground
| coffee and an insulation can with hot water. Personally I got a
| P1, and the lid can be hard to open, without also screwing open
| the middle part, but one gets used to it.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| It depends on whether you're ok with something that resembles
| espresso, or if you actually want espresso.
|
| Espresso is nothing more than hot water pushed through coffee
| grounds at 7-9+ PSI or pressure. There are several travel
| brewers, such as the Flair NEO, that aren't particularly
| expensive and will brew perfectly fine espresso.
|
| The issue, though, is that the main determinant for espresso
| isn't how you make it, but the quality and grind of the coffee
| bean. Are you willing to purchase a burr grinder and take it
| with you on vacation? If yes, and if you want actual espresso,
| then this is the best route to go.
|
| From experience, a Moka pot will give you something slightly
| (but only slightly) closer to espresso than a french press.
| However, I've consistently gotten much better results with a
| french press. As far as going with an Aeropress over a french
| press, the former should give a cleaner result, but my best
| guess not ever having used one is that the final result will
| take about the same, without some of the finer coffee grounds
| getting into the cup (which can mostly be prevented on a french
| press if you do it right).
| Lio wrote:
| > 7-9+ PSI
|
| I think there's a small typo there, 9 _bar_ would be more
| regular for espresso.
|
| I agree otherwise. I treat moka or aeropress coffee as its
| own thing; it's not espresso and that's OK.
|
| I see a lot of people talk about "grind" as important.
|
| Really it's just a way of varying pressure and to keep it
| roughly in that 9 bar zone.
|
| The only magic in a good bur grinder is its consistency. You
| can look at what you're getting out and bump the pressure up
| or down slightly compared to your last shot.
|
| So as the beans dry out with age, you can increase the
| extraction so you don't get a flat, sour shot with no crema.
| If you put in a new bag of beans you can make the grind
| courser so that pressure is reduced and you` don't over
| extract.
|
| I love a morning espresso but I'm less keen on all the
| connoisseurship around it.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| _The only magic in a good bur grinder is its consistency.
| You can look at what you 're getting out and bump the
| pressure up or down slightly compared to your last shot._
|
| It's not just consistency. It's grind size distribution.
| The cost of a high end burr grinder is crazy and I don't
| understand what's going on but you can do simple
| comparative tests.
|
| I have a 2 different burr sets for my grinder with
| different cutter geometries and the mechanical properties
| of the grinds and the puck are different. Never mind the
| taste. The way the water pours through the puck and what's
| happening inside the basket as you pull the shot is
| different. You can easily tell by the amount of channeling
| I get and the integrity of the puck after the shot.
|
| The espresso also tastes different BTW.
|
| I've also done blind taste testing with my grinder pitted
| against 3 other grinders. Having only tasted the coffee
| from 1 of these, I matched the coffee to the grinders only
| based on the theoretical properties of the burr sets.
| ValentineC wrote:
| > _The cost of a high end burr grinder is crazy and I don
| 't understand what's going on but you can do simple
| comparative tests._
|
| Some Taiwanese folks crowdsourced a bunch of manual
| grinders in this forum thread to measure and compare
| grind size distribution [1].
|
| It's usually my go-to thread whenever someone asks me for
| grinder recommendations, and care mostly about the end
| result.
|
| [1] (link in Chinese)
| https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=640&t=5747652
| Lio wrote:
| Ah well that all sounds beyond me mate.
|
| I'm a simple soul, if I can't measure it really easily I
| don't worry about it.
|
| It's not like any two beans are the same and I'm tamping
| them by hand anyway.
|
| Worrying about the shape of the blades in the grinder is
| like worrying about the type of power cable on your hifi
| amp. It's too much connoisseurship for me personally but
| more power to you if that's your bag.
| iramiller wrote:
| A good burr grinder is all about consistent grind size
| and is very easy to observe.
|
| Spread a small amount of ground coffee out on a piece of
| paper. Observe the varying sizes and shapes within the
| grounds. Better grinders produce more even grinds which
| produce more even extraction during brewing.
|
| It's an exceedingly simple concept. As an extreme example
| try and brew an espresso using a simple blade style
| 'grinder'. It will be impossible. The refinement of a
| good grinder is simply optimizing along this axis.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| > I think there's a small typo there, 9 bar would be more
| regular for espresso.
|
| Yep, my mistake : )
| akvadrako wrote:
| French press gives almost no pressure, while Aeropress can
| give you 10 psi - it mostly depends how fine you make it and
| how fast you press it.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| See the exchange above. I meant to say 7-9 bar (~100-130
| psi).
|
| It was early and I hadn't had my morning espresso(s) yet :
| )
| sails wrote:
| Prefer aeropress over moka pot - quicker and easier to clean,
| requires less attention, better consistency, and prefer the
| fresher taste of aeropress. Only need a kettle instead of stove
| so generally quicker (US: whats a kettle).
| 271828182846 wrote:
| interesting - is that a french press but with a smaller pored
| filter so you need more force and get more creamy
| consistency?
|
| having said that the design is remarkably ugly. almost like
| some medical device - or maybe even like a bathmate? :D
| KingMob wrote:
| Heh, yeah, the design is like the cylinder version of a
| cuisinart top. But it works quite well for small amounts of
| coffee, and is very portable. Compared to a french press,
| the filter is much finer, and the rubber end seals way
| better.
|
| Unfortunately, because the volume is small, I would have to
| use it multiple times, which was such a pain, I eventually
| stopped using it in favor of a V60 pourover.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| It's designed by the maker of the aerobie frisbee
| herodoturtle wrote:
| Lots of folks recommending the Aeropress here for travel - I
| strongly agree.
|
| I'd also add, you can get a ceramic bur grinder called the
| "Porlex mini hand grider" [0] which fits inside the Aeropress'
| cylinder.
|
| It's a super compact way to travel with a press and a grinder!
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/Porlex-Mini-Stainless-Coffee-
| Grinder/...
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| The Porlex is really terrible. They aren't that cheap anymore
| and are still ceramic. If you want to go the cheap and
| compact route, get the Rhinowares.
|
| Otherwise spend a bit more money and get the 1Zpresso Q2. I
| think this is the cheapest grinder with 34mm stainless steel
| burrs you can get that fits inside the Aeropress plunger.
|
| You'll thank yourself later for getting the stainless steel
| burrs.
| herodoturtle wrote:
| I've had the complete opposite experience.
|
| Not that I want to pick a fight, but I'm sharing this more
| for other readers' reference.
|
| I've had my Porlex for a little over 5 years now, use it
| around twice daily, and have had zero issues.
|
| A quick Google search of ceramic vs steel burs also seems
| to indicate the ceramic offers better longevity.
|
| Why else do you say Porlex is terrible, aside from being
| ceramic?
|
| Its build quality is excellent. Well worth the price.
| ValentineC wrote:
| > _A quick Google search of ceramic vs steel burs also
| seems to indicate the ceramic offers better longevity._
|
| I have a theory that people who start with a Hario
| Skerton or its clones (all of which have ceramic burrs)
| tend to be turned off manual grinding because of how bad
| the grinding experience is.
|
| Steel burrs supposedly cut better and faster.
|
| Admittedly, I've tried my friend's Porlex Tall, and it
| wasn't unpleasant to use.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Those Moka coffee pots are the next best thing to a full blown
| Barista grade Espresso maker. And thus the overall best option
| cost wise, you can get the classic Bialettis, 4-6 cups, for
| around 30 bucks. For the difference to a Barista machine you
| can get _a lot_ of top grade coffee to brew.
|
| We use only those, in all sizes. And being really portable you
| can take them everywhere. Camping, vacation,... you name it.
| They only thing you struggle to get, even with the dedicated
| ones marketed as such, is the crema a barista machine will
| produce.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| No, they are so inconsistent in my experience. There had been
| times in which the coffee tasted so good it would beat any
| premium cafe. But on repeating the same with same beans, same
| grind setting, same water and same setting it then taste like
| rubber. I suspect it is due to random channeling pattern in
| coffee. If the water passes more through the area in which
| fine particles are there, it tastes bitter.
| MrDresden wrote:
| I love my Bialettis (own 3 of different sizes) as well as my
| espresso machine.
|
| A moka pot will _never_ be able to give coffee anywhere close
| to propper espresso.
|
| That's not me being subjective. The moka can not create the
| pressure needed to extract the oils in the same way as a
| propper espresso machine. Not to mention that the water to
| oil ratio is way off compared to an espresso. And a fine
| enough grind level would simply fall through into the water
| tank.
|
| A moka pot is one device on the coffee spectrum. It doesnt
| need to compete or be like any other equipment. It is it's
| own thing.
| bergie wrote:
| I've been pretty happy with my Nanopresso for that purpose:
|
| https://www.wacaco.com/pages/nanopresso
|
| Produces a consistent cup of espresso with crema and all. You
| can also buy the "barista kit" to pull double shots.
| monktastic1 wrote:
| I'm surprised that the article makes no mention of the fact that
| even the name _Moka_ comes from Mocha -- a historically important
| port city in Yemen.
| 4WIW wrote:
| My personal experience: if espresso machine is 100 then Wacaco
| Minipresso would be 93, Moka 53, Airpress 52, anything else <50.
| This is assuming same beans.
|
| As other people mentioned, beans quality is important. Assuming
| freshly roasted and ground beans are 100, freshly ground 1-month
| old roast is 50 and 1 month old grind is 25
| toolslive wrote:
| went to Italy on vacation, bought a Bialetti to take home and
| have been using it ever since (15y). Tip: If you plan to use an
| induction stove, please check if the model you plan to buy can
| work with it.
| david927 wrote:
| I always wondered why they didn't combine a Moka pot with an
| electric kettle. It would work much faster, would be safer (can
| turn off after time if you forget water), and can max the
| temperature at 80 degrees Celsius so you don't get bitter coffee.
| Also, it could have different sizes for the coffee grind for when
| you have company over.
| yissp wrote:
| Bialetti does seem to make one
| https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/coffee-makers/moka/moka-elett...
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| Came here to comment the same - but it looks like they exist!
| https://www.thedrinksmaker.com/best-electric-moka-pot/
| achairapart wrote:
| Just beware of cheap china replicas, a study from some time ago
| found alarming levels of lead in many of these. Always buy the
| original one, you can't go wrong anyway as they really can last a
| lifetime.
| radarsat1 wrote:
| Surprised to read about problems of Bialetti. I see their moka
| pots in the kitchen shops everywhere. I have two. I guess you
| never know what's going on behind the scenes.
|
| These days I use an aeropress more often, it's similar in terms
| of convenience but is faster and more importantly I find it
| doesn't require heating the coffee as much, which makes it taste
| better.
| bruprup wrote:
| I have three, 1 cup, 3 cup and 9 cup.
|
| 1 cup is for me and my wife (we wait while the other finishes)
|
| 2 cup is for when we a guest
|
| 9 cup is for my 70 year old parents. I cringe just seeing them
| drink 4.5 cups each.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Unfortunately, not for someone like me who would put it on the
| stove and go read HN, only to be reminded later about it by a
| smell of burning resin.
| [deleted]
| SergeAx wrote:
| Moka Pot is essential on a sailboat, where all you have is a gas
| stove and 12V car socket under sail or on the ahchor. Every
| Italian charter boat has one onboard as a first class equipment
| alongside chartplotter and compass.
| jsdwarf wrote:
| Italy could have been one country that introduced coffee to
| Europe, but let's not forget that the first Austrian Kaffeehaus
| opened in the 17th century as well (using coffee stashes obtained
| after the 2nd Turkish siege in 1680).
|
| What truly killed Bialetti Coffee Pots is the sharp decline of
| gas stoves in Europe. Electric stoves heat up much slower and
| turn coffee preparation in pots into a lengthy procedure.
| thriftwy wrote:
| We had one in an apartment's kitchen when I was visiting
| California so they can't be that rare, are they?
| jmkr wrote:
| Used to love my moka pot but got rid of it. This post inspired me
| to get another one.
|
| Any recommendations for fair trade coffee? I usually drink equal
| exchange, but it's not the best coffee.
| qalmakka wrote:
| Every day, twice a day, I grind my coffee and put my trusty old
| aluminium Bialetti Moka pot on the hob. It's my ritual, and no
| crappy pods can ever take that away from me. As long as I
| remember to swap out its rubber gasket, I know for a fact that
| this pot will neither break nor stop functioning. It's one thing
| of beauty, the Moka pot. A great feat of ingenuity.
|
| The only thing that saddens me a bit is that when (not if) I will
| switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new steel pot,
| or switch to an electric one. Until then, she's my mainstay.
| praptak wrote:
| > I will switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new
| steel pot, or switch to an electric one
|
| Or buy an induction plate adapter. I have not used one, so I
| cannot tell how practical they are, just saying they exist.
| qalmakka wrote:
| I have always heard people warning about adapters, because
| they have a tendency of causing discolouration on black
| induction hobs due to how unevenly they heat up. I guess that
| switching to a stainless steel pot isn't the end of the
| world, it's the only thing made out of aluminum I own.
| aneutron wrote:
| I came here to say this. I tried the adapter very briefly,
| and it's very convenient (especially if you already heat your
| water before putting the grounds in).
| creamytaco wrote:
| You're not worried about Alzheimer's disease? Even if there is
| no current moka pot-specific evidence (there haven't been a lot
| of studies), why take the chance?
| bruprup wrote:
| My 2 cents:
|
| - Al is a known neurotoxin
|
| - Al does not, typically, rust, despite being far more
| thermodynamically favorable than Fe because a kinetic
| barrier, AlO2, forms stopping further oxidation
|
| - AlO2 is an extremely durable coating. Extremely inert. It's
| crystal lattice constant is similar to Al's to it does not
| flake
|
| - Al _does_ rust in salty environments.
|
| Conclusion:
|
| The moka is fine. Just don't use vinegar or salt water to
| brew your coffee.
| qalmakka wrote:
| You could argue that basically everything has the potential
| of being harmful in the long term. Red meat, gas hobs, living
| in a polluted city, plastic, ... People are exposed to so
| many substances that we actually know for a fact they are
| either carcinogenic or bad for our health, and yet most don't
| do that much about it. If you start cutting out of your life
| even things that are not demonstrated to be bad for you,
| you're left with basically nothing. One thing is to have
| actual evidence that something is harmful, one other is to
| follow any suspicion that is waved around.
| creamytaco wrote:
| We know aluminum is harmful and implicated in multiple
| serious health conditions. The only unknown here is the
| degree of aluminum leeching from the pot to the coffee. For
| something you do twice a day, this is a different kind of
| preventable exposure to risk than eating red meat or living
| in a polluted city.
|
| IMO one would be a fool to accept this risk, even if small.
| [deleted]
| aneutron wrote:
| Okay what are you going on about ? Care to source this ?
| creamytaco wrote:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21157018/
| aneutron wrote:
| First of all, thank you for sourcing it. I don't have
| access to the paper, but the synopsis is very
| interesting.
|
| I do however find it very weird. For example, how far-
| spread is Alzheimer's in Italy, where the Al intake must
| be through the roof. If this was to be believed, then all
| italians would have AD. (I am fully aware that logically,
| this is not correct, and that they could perhaps have
| developed some sort of immunity).
|
| The same could be said about soda/beverage cans. Their
| use is so widespread that virtually everyone in America
| should have AD.
|
| The scientific argument may have some truth to it, but I
| still find it weird that it's not "evident" in
| populations where Al intake would be through the roof.
| tokai wrote:
| >soda/beverage cans
|
| They are coated inside.
| omeze wrote:
| Moka pots are definitely great if they're available, but IMO
| they're outcompeted if you're in the market as an enthusiast by
| Aeropresses in the mid-range ($30-$50) and generic steel coffee
| filters in the low range ($10).
|
| As others have commented, the coffee itself is the most important
| thing to get right - a great bean brewed normally will beat a
| mediocre bean brewed perfectly :)
| TomMasz wrote:
| I sold my moka pot at a garage sale when I bought my first
| espresso machine. Which broke. As did the two others I bought
| after that one. I'm now using an Aeropress, which is another
| device that coffee snobs look down on. But I'm seriously
| considering getting a new moka pot.
| pell wrote:
| The Aeropress is really popular with coffee enthusiasts
| actually. Most third wave shops I know sell Aeropress coffee as
| one of the handbrew methods.
| [deleted]
| thinkindie wrote:
| I come from the town where Bialetti, Alessi, Lagostina and a
| bunch of other brands were founded. Think about Silicon Valley
| but for kitchenware.
|
| All these products enjoyed (and still enjoy) great success around
| the world but all these companies are not in good shape anymore,
| mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long
| lasting, therefore they are not forcing customers to buy new
| products every few years.
| toyg wrote:
| _> mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long
| lasting_
|
| I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce
| equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey,
| almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-
| espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again,
| they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices).
|
| There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and
| move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically
| for _cheap_ kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old
| countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry
| upstarts.
| aunty_helen wrote:
| People have lost the appreciation for quality goods. My
| Bialetti has traveled once around the world with me, it
| doesn't burn me when I pour it, there's no rough casting
| causing it to lock together when it's hot, the plastic handle
| is made to take the heat and doesn't melt onto the stove, it
| also doesn't break at the point of connection. All problems
| I've had with cheaper brands and other person's mokas.
|
| I like getting good deals on things, but if its something
| that I'm going to use every day, I will buy a quality item
| over a cheap item because I know that it will cost me less in
| the long run.
| ip26 wrote:
| I argue what you're actually observing is the vanishing
| middle market. People still appreciate quality, but with
| the market bifurcating your only choices are cheap crap or
| expensive luxury. Quality at a reasonable cost is
| frequently just not an option.
|
| I haven't figured out the 'why' - dwindling middle class?
| Min-max consumer purchase patterns? Perhaps planned
| obsolescence is actually optimal on average? (e.g. home
| mechanics just don't need Snap-On quality)
| aunty_helen wrote:
| Koken man myself. But I appreciate your points and the
| points of the subcomment.
|
| There is definitely an aspiration to own more crap. My
| family is a key example of this and I used to be the
| same. Now I'm happy with my 1 good kitchen knife.
|
| As for the gutting of the middle class, it feels like
| there has been a point sometime in the last 10 years
| where the ship sailed. Those on board with a house and
| life setup are destined only to get richer while the rest
| are left on the shore, paying rent for their lives.
| sonofhans wrote:
| I've thought this, too, and like you I don't have a
| compelling explanation. It's true that the middle class
| is dwindling, but even the poor today have more _stuff_
| than the middle class used to. But it is, as you say,
| mostly crap.
|
| I'm not sure what you mean by consumer min-maxing, but
| perhaps this -- one thing I've thought is that the amount
| and variety of crap you own in this culture is more
| important than the quality. And not from a utility
| perspective, rather because our dominant entertainment
| reinforces it. It's a given that you must own a
| dishwasher, so you get a cheap one -- yet it's literally
| worse than hand-washing dishes, and needs to be replaced
| every 5 years. You can't own one good kitchen knife, you
| must get a wooden knife block like the chefs have, even
| if all seven knives are crap.
|
| Many of the cheap tools you buy at Harbor Freight will
| literally break the first time you use them as intended.
| This is all told a shocking waste of human effort --
| every scrap of resource and moment of time spent creating
| this crap is wasted, burned forever. When often just
| making something 20% better will leave it "good enough."
| ip26 wrote:
| That's an interesting idea, essentially that media
| teaches us to aspire to goods we can't afford, thus as a
| result we buy knock offs instead of humble yet quality.
|
| Min-max'ing refers to an idea that instead of having
| evenly OK kitchenware (for example) you pinch pennies on
| the flatware and dishes and so forth so you can buy &
| enjoy an exotic Damascus steel knife, or fine teak
| cutting board. It actually dovetails quite well with your
| idea about being taught to aspire to things we can't
| really afford.
| moolcool wrote:
| Nespresso is debatably an actual espresso maker
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| > I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now
| produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because
| hey, almost-slave labor is cheap)
|
| It's also that they have no problem copying designs instead
| of innovating and creating their own. So the western
| companies pays for R&D and marketing and the Chinese CopyCat
| just tries to match the product as much as it can and flood
| online retailers.
| thinkindie wrote:
| it's not just about price, but i think market saturation.
| Apple is selling expensive phones that competitors are
| selling for a fraction of Apple phones, but Apple expects an
| average lifespan of 3 years for their phones. Which means,
| every year someone is upgrading their phone.
|
| In fact Apple got some issues around this with iPad, whereas
| people are not upgrading their tablets (or laptops) as often
| as their phones.
|
| If you have sturdy moka coffee pot, you will most probably
| get one in a lifetime. Same goes for other long lasting
| products (my mum has still her pressure cooker from Lagostina
| from a couple of decades ago).
| rjsw wrote:
| I have several Lagostina pans, I'm not expecting to need to
| replace them in my lifetime.
| SturgeonsLaw wrote:
| It's a real shame that the economic incentive is to produce
| cheap, disposable crap that needs to be repurchased for each
| use
| thinkindie wrote:
| Indeed. And the story of Alessi and Bialetti is a clear
| example.
| traeregan wrote:
| > _Cuban coffee in a Cuban or Cuban-American home is almost
| always made with a moka pot; the Cuban concoction cafecito is
| made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee
| with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and
| simulates a classic espresso foam._
|
| We make cafecitos with a Bialetti moka pot in my house. It took
| quite a few tries to get it right, the sugar paste especially,
| but they're a real treat now that we have it figured out.
|
| Here's our recipe and a few notes: https://snippi.com/s/jrn4ig3
| Note that we're using brown sugar instead of table sugar. This is
| simply a preference.
|
| Enjoy!
| traeregan wrote:
| To add to the above, if you have a Nespresso machine at home
| then try the Scuro double espresso + a hefty amount of your
| sweetener of choice (I like maple syrup). It produces a very
| similar cup to the cafecito recipe in my last comment.
| yumraj wrote:
| Am I the only one that has an IKEA stainless steel moka ?
| thesausageking wrote:
| I have the same one. It's great. Simple, well-made, and makes a
| good cup. And I prefer stainless given the potential health
| risks of aluminum.
| doddsiedodds wrote:
| A great video guide from chefsteps and James Hoffman on brewing
| with a Moka pot: https://youtu.be/rpyBYuu-wJI
| pashky wrote:
| And once again this article ignores the fact that biggest threat
| to Bialetti's own sales are not other ways to brew, but clones.
| Simplicity of the design means copies are just as good. I once
| bought 2cup pot in Aldi for only 4 euros because Airbnb where I
| stayed only had huge 12 cup version and it was just me drinking
| coffee. I simply left it there when I moved out.
|
| Which is actually another problem - they don't work very well
| when partially loaded. So you can't own only one if you ever have
| guests and don't want to do multiple runs.
| fanf2 wrote:
| I have a couple of moka pots which I like to use in the summer
| to make iced coffee. The small one is annoyingly too small for
| a decently sized drink. So I got a huge Bialetti, since it
| seemed rude to buy a cheap clone. It makes about a pint of
| strong coffee which is enough for a couple of very long cold
| lattes.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| Or - given they are pretty cheap - you get a small one for your
| personal morning coffee, and a large one for when you have
| guests over.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| I always wonder how is possible to make moka from aluminium that
| is poisonous?
| denton-scratch wrote:
| I haven't used a moka pot for decades; IME, they made bitter
| coffee. Since they still work the same way, I don't imagine
| that's changed.
|
| It's possible that my taste in coffee has changed over time,
| though; back then I didn't really like strong coffee, now I do.
|
| The article doesn't deal much with the character of the coffee
| produced, nor the effect of the huge difference in pressure
| between a moka pot and a (professional) Gaggia. My tame barrista
| makes a big deal about how important the correct pressure is.
| Also: I wonder whether the pressurised boiling chamber results in
| water that is hotter than 100C, yielding bitter coffee.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Beans and roast matter, and I've found that beans better suited
| to drip or pressed coffee don't do well in a Moka pot. Dark /
| espresso roast FTW.
| netfortius wrote:
| Recently moved from the US to Europe, and (re)discovered the moka
| pot, after many years of having one and never used (received as a
| gift, and stored in my kitchen more as a curiosity, then left
| behind me, when moving). Acquiring one, once in Europe, and
| starting using it (alongside my more commonly used French Press),
| I discovered new ways to bring up flavour in coffee. I doubt this
| is a dying breed ...
| g8oz wrote:
| If your Moka is making bitter coffee you are setting the
| temperature too high. It's easy to experiment with this. Setting
| the heat to 4 on a Panasonic induction cooktop gets me a non
| bitter brew everytime. 5 is okay if I'm in a rush. 6 is always
| terrible. This is with a Bialetti stainless steel pot.
|
| As mentioned elsewhere where in this discussion the Moka does not
| make coffee through boiling but rather via vapor pressure.
| nabilhat wrote:
| Another tip I picked up from can't-remember-where: Heat the
| water before installing the coffee. A kettle is best but I've
| preheated the bottom half on the stove as well. Brewing starts
| right away, without baking the grounds for minutes in advance
| while the rest of the operation gets up to temp.
|
| Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do
| your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy
| surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the
| base for the final cinch.
| ValentineC wrote:
| > _Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will
| do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a
| grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip
| on the base for the final cinch._
|
| Yeah, that's probably the most troublesome part of my daily
| moka experience too.
|
| I use a paper towel and grip it at the valve to minimise
| contact.
| dagw wrote:
| Also consider your grind size. If it's bitter, try a slightly
| coarser grind. I see a lot of people using espresso grind for
| their Moka, but personally I find going somewhere around
| halfway between espresso and pour over (erring on the side of
| pour over) to give a much nicer flavour.
| jskrn wrote:
| Ok so is a Moka pot for making coffee in the North American sense
| (drip coffee), or espresso (even if it is not at as high
| pressure), or something in between? I do pour overs daily and
| have never used a moka pot.
| malermeister wrote:
| Something in between :) It's lower pressure than espresso, but
| it is under a bit of pressure
| oats wrote:
| It's something in between IMO. A moka pot cannot produce the
| pressures necessary for making traditional espresso, but it
| does produce a strong, slightly viscous coffee and occasionally
| some crema. A lovely brew on its own!
| jack_riminton wrote:
| I used my first Moka whilst I was on family holiday to Tuscany
| and it produced the best coffee I'd ever tasted. Somehow it
| tasted creamy despite it just being normal black coffee.
| agys wrote:
| "Moka 101": an (almost) scientific approach for the perfect
| coffee by Ubi de Feo (an obsessive compulsive coffee maniac and
| great hacker, among other things).
|
| Part 1 & 2 https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE25jEFg8U
| https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE6VpKjvzu
| samplenoise wrote:
| I adopted a few tricks from either [1] or a similar video from
| James Hoffman's Youtube channel some time ago (including the
| foaming milk with a French press one) and it vastly improved my
| lockdowns. The one useful thing they don't say is (imo) it's
| easier to get it right with a smaller size pot.
|
| [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
| Graziano_M wrote:
| Youtube upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCa5J7LcO0
| ubidefeo wrote:
| thank you
| ubidefeo wrote:
| I appreciate it, mate. I'm planning a (shorter) video on gasket
| priming, which many underestimate :)
| severine wrote:
| Thanks! I just gave a thorough clean to mine, tweaked times and
| heat and had my best coffee of the year.
| taffronaut wrote:
| The sad thing about moka pots is that they never break or wear
| out and no one can sell you a subscription for pods or filters.
| They have a quiet presence and reassurance which is drowned out
| by the clamour of commerce hammering at your door to sell you
| something slightly less messy and slightly more convenient at the
| expense of the planet and your soul.
| alexellisuk wrote:
| I have stopped using the aluminium ones which tend to go bad,
| very fluffy and rusty-looking. The Stainless steel models seem
| much cleaner over time and only need new rubber seals. Unless
| you forget about it on the hob and melt down the handle (don't
| do this!)
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Still using the first 3-cup 1/2 Moka pot I bought after moving
| to Uni when 18yrs old, now serving me for the past 20 years
| O_O. Have "burned" it three times by forgetting it on the hob
| and being awaken by the burned smell of plastic. Always managed
| to get it back to life with a good scrub and a new set of
| spares.
|
| Some 13 years ago, for the office I got a "modern" Elettrika
| Bialetti which is a normal 2-cup 1/2 standard Bialetti with a
| resistor on the bottom to make it electric. It uses standard
| computer cables to get power. It powered 11yrs of PhD, postdoc,
| and academic work.
|
| Last update for my Mokas (~6yrs ago) is to get seals made of
| silicone. They last a _lifetime_ and now I don 't even need to
| change the seal every four months anymore.
| xenocratus wrote:
| I have a 3 cup Moka pot from them too, recently replaced the
| seal with a similar rubber one but I'd be very interested in
| trying out the silicone one as well, but it doesn't seem like
| a common occurrence - mind if I ask where you got it from?
| Was it an online store?
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Online stores like Amazon or eBay have plenty of those
| (sometimes called also gaskets). The seal tends to become
| brown over time as the silicone absorbs some quantity of
| coffe in the process, but that does not affect the taste of
| coffee and the seal keeps doing its job impeccably (up
| until ~6 yrs at least, ymmv).
| throw0101a wrote:
| > 3-cup
|
| The sizes of "cups" when it comes to coffee seems to be a bit
| chaotic.
| aigo wrote:
| It's wild. I believe the cup is somewhere between double
| espresso and Victorian teacup.
| nabilhat wrote:
| I've always found "Cup" as a measurement to be fun, in an
| engine of chaos kind of way.
|
| Tasse - 120ml (4oz-ish), this is historically the base UOM
| of "coffee cup" originally encountered on coffee things.
| Often carelessly translated to "cup" in countries new to
| coffee, regardless of overlap with existing alternate
| meanings of "cup" as a measurement.
|
| Demitasse - 60ml (2oz-ish), a cup for espresso.
|
| Mug - Wikipedia says 8-12oz.
|
| The USA definition of "coffee cup" as an amount one would
| serve themselves ranges anywhere from 8oz through over
| 20oz, depending on who you ask. USA-made coffee machine
| markings also vary, but are always smaller than consumers
| expect. Currently Black and Decker's "cup" is 5oz and
| Bunn's is 7oz, which means Bunn's standard 10 cup machine
| makes substantially more coffee than B&D's standard 12 cup
| machine.
|
| Unless of course it is a cup of coffee in a recipe, in
| which case consider the provenance of your recipe and which
| standardized (or not...) version of a "cup" measurement is
| indicated before proceeding:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)
| _dan wrote:
| "3 cup" = 1 cup, "8 cup" = 3 cups
| fho wrote:
| Similar experience here, I bought a aluminum one (knockoff I
| think) when I moved out from my parents, used that throughout
| higher education and just recently, almost 20 years later
| "upgraded" to a genuine Bialetti one.
|
| But I somewhat dislike the aluminum ones as they tend to get
| somewhat yucky over time ... but Bialetti also sells a
| stainless steel one, the Bialetti Venus. Big fan.
| adolph wrote:
| Oh wow, that looks almost perfect. My complaint about the
| Mika is that it is a pain to clean.
| ctchocula wrote:
| > The sad thing about moka pots is that they never break or
| wear out
|
| I have a slightly different experience. I have 2 Moka pots, but
| both no longer seem useable after leaving it on the stove too
| long. Now anything I brew using them tastes burned. I've tried
| cleaning them, but I still haven't been able to get rid of
| blackish residue in the water reservoir base. Any tips on how
| to fix them?
| kashyapc wrote:
| A few months ago I gave a sturdy, 6-cup Bialetti to a friend
| as a present. He recently admitted that he managed to
| accidentally melt (!) the damn thing down, as he forgot to
| switch off the fire. I was curious if he really managed to
| melt the metal. But unfortunately he has not shared a picture
| of it; he was too embarrassed about it, and he just tossed it
| into the trash.
| ctchocula wrote:
| Some sibling comments mentioned replacing the rubber seal
| fixes the issue of burnt taste. I took a look at my rubber
| seals and they did have a burnt smell, so I'm gonna give
| that a shot. Thanks for sharing and good luck with your
| friend's Moka pot!
| kashyapc wrote:
| There's no more Moka pot; now he's on his own. ;-) I'm
| really surprised that my friend managed to melt the
| goddamned _metal_. I was wondering did the metal really
| melt? How long did he leave it on fire for the metal to
| melt? The bugger didn 't answer these questions.
| telesilla wrote:
| Baking soda
| flowerbreeze wrote:
| A drill with a small hard sponge attachment could work? Using
| a drill with a sponge has been the only way I managed to
| clean my stove top within reasonable time when something
| particularly nasty has managed to get burnt there. Maybe a
| smaller version of it could work with Moka pot too?
| [deleted]
| unixhero wrote:
| I for one nuked one by placing it in the dishwasher where it
| enjoyed a full wash cycle. The metal became irreversibly
| damaged, or discoloured / phased. The beautiful Bialetti pot
| was not so pretty any more. So I bought another one!
| pmontra wrote:
| You never wash throughly a moka, it loses the taste of coffee
| and you have to start again. The first few coffees in a new
| moka are not good. You wash with water and fingers, no soap.
| thinkindie wrote:
| it happened to a friend of mine. Funny thing, his father was
| working at Alessi (also another moka maker) and we both come
| from the town where Bialetti started. So his father did not
| understand how his son managed to do such a mistake.
| twic wrote:
| I was helping clear up at a friend's after she had a group of
| us round for dinner, and i put her moka pot in the dishwasher
| :(.
|
| It wasn't clear to me whether the pot was no longer
| functional, or just whether the previously elegant aluminium
| surface was now rather ugly.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Aren't they just (nice) hunks of pure aluminum cast pieces?
| Pure aluminum surfaces are impossible to undo when
| chemically damaged but quite easy to sand down and
| refinish.
| BostonFern wrote:
| In my experience, aluminum left in the dishwasher leaves a
| residue that can be hard to get off completely. I'm not an
| expert on the subject, but aluminum is a neurotoxin and is
| harmful in large amounts, so I would be hesitant to
| continue to use it whether or not it's still functional.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Not sure why people don't use stainless steel versions of
| them, more durable, nicer, can be used on induction
| plates. Bialetti has excellent products for this (their
| pans, not so much).
|
| Practically unkillable if taken a bit of care. At home I
| use it exclusively for making coffee.
| kseistrup wrote:
| "Migration of aluminum from food contact materials to
| food--a health risk for consumers? Part II of III:
| migration of aluminum from drinking bottles and moka pots
| made of aluminum to beverages" [?]
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5388725/
|
| Findings are that drinking coffee from a moka pot made by
| aluminum will result in a TWI (tolerable weekly intake)
| of 4%, and that washing the pot in the dishwasher
| sigificantly increases the aluminum concentration in
| subsequence brews.
| yobbo wrote:
| Well, you still need to replace the rubber sealing ring.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Pods also aren't the same. The coffee was roasted and ground a
| long time ago, and it's about 6g or coffee, compared to 22g in
| a cafe "double" espresso. You get better result buying a
| grinder and moka pot for the same price as the pod machine and
| also it's a lot cheaper per gram.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| That's making the assumption of buying beans as an
| alternative, but the pods _are_ the coffee purchase. You can
| also buy reusable pods into which you can put your own grinds
| - but then you are explicitly responsible for grind size,
| choice of bean etc, at which point you might as well get an
| espresso machine. The pod machine is very quick, and pours a
| cup automatically.
|
| Incidentally, I have a Gaggia classic machine, a grinder and
| bean, as well as a Nespresso pod machine. The Gaggia is more
| customisable, but also more work, not just how to pour a cup,
| but the work establishing consistency in the first place e.g.
| finding a good grinder, and the right setting, how much
| coffee in the basket and how much pressure to apply, when to
| clean and what mods to use etc etc etc
|
| Compared to all that, pods are just as available as
| beans/espresso grind (maybe more so) and v easy. You don't
| even have to watch the machine while waiting for it to heat
| up and pour, and with the right pods the results aren't
| vastly inferior to the espresso, but _much_ more consistent.
| toyg wrote:
| Yeah I come from a house using mokas and the Nespresso in
| comparison is much more idiot-proof: nothing to spill,
| (almost) nothing to clean, nothing to get burnt with, and
| the result is extremely consistent. Mokas and traditional
| espresso machines are much more temperamental, the latter
| don't even make decent cups until everything is warmed up
| properly - which is why bars literally throw away the first
| half-dozen coffees every day.
|
| I get the environmental critique, and the Nespresso system
| is definitely more expensive, lock-in, etc etc, but DAMN
| it's so convenient and good enough for the everyday
| workload of a single or couple.
| aivisol wrote:
| Came to know these devices after moving from Northern Europe to
| South few years ago. First two of these were destroyed when I
| repeatedly forgot to fill them with water - the plastic handle
| just melted before I realized my error. Seals usually last
| years even if you use the device several times a day. Apart
| from that, they indeed never break.
| jan_Inkepa wrote:
| My flatmate keeps forgetting his moka pot on the hob and needs
| to buy new rubber seals pretty regularly.
| smorgusofborg wrote:
| The electric moka shuts itself off with the same system as a
| rice cooker and is extremely durable as long as it is an all
| metal exterior. I don't know why they are so hard to find.
| CannisterFlux wrote:
| I got in the habit of setting an alarm on my phone for 5
| minutes after I put the pot on. Even if I think I'm going to
| stay in the kitchen and watch it, I set the alarm. It's
| amazing how I get distracted, forget that I put the damn
| thing on as if it never existed, then the alarm goes off and
| I think "oh yeah!! the coffee!".
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Check my comment above about Silicone-made seals
| [deleted]
| dredmorbius wrote:
| To accompany the simple moka pot, buy a simple mechanical
| bell timer.
|
| Brew time is pretty much precisely 6 minutes.
|
| Set pot on stove, set timer. When bell rings, coffee is
| ready.
|
| (A timer built into your cooker / microwave can also work, I
| find their alarms are not loud enough.)
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| It really depends on high you turn on gas/electric
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Presuming high heat, it's pretty consistent. I've noted
| this across a dozen or more cooktops.
|
| The surface area of the pot bottom is the limiting factor
| more than anything else.
|
| Sure, low heat and widely-divergent hobs exist. Standards
| and conventions help ensure reasonable convergence.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| In my experience it had more to do with how high the
| person making the coffee was.
| hiddevb wrote:
| And the great thing is Bialetti sells these parts for pretty
| cheap: https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/accessories/spare-
| parts.html
|
| I love that products and companies like these still exist,
| sad indeed that they have such a hard time to survive.
| DyslexicAtheist wrote:
| as a digital nomad I struggle to fit everything into my bag and
| so the Bialetti is the item that always gets left behind as a
| "present" to who comes after me. I've been doing this the past
| 14 years now and like to think I'm the reason why this post
| finally made it into your reality / timeline :)
|
| I used to feed my addiction via Nespresso capsules and am glad
| I stopped because it was really expensive but also:
|
| > _Recent research (PDF) conducted by a UK-based coffee brand
| found that, of the 39,000 capsules produced worldwide every
| minute, 29,000 of them end up in landfills_ --
| https://bbia.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/CAF26_52_Sust...
| throw0101a wrote:
| "K-Cup creator John Sylvan regrets inventing Keurig coffee
| pod system":
|
| * https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-
| sylvan-r...
|
| * https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35605927
|
| Discussed in 2018:
|
| * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18718039
| cylinder714 wrote:
| All true, of course, which is why I strongly recommend
| reusable cups like those from Solofill, my favorite. One of
| those charged with, say, Peet's Mocha-Java, makes a fine
| cup of coffee.
| RicoElectrico wrote:
| IDK why they use rubber whereas knock-offs use silicone gaskets
| which make a more tight seal (even if said knockoffs never
| really work).
|
| The knockoffs don't function properly (burn and spit coffee)
| probably due to different dimensions - I invite anyone to
| explain what is so critical about the original design. Here's
| one that doesn't work: https://homla.com.pl/mia-mokka-zestaw-
| kawiarka-czarna-z-2-fi...
| yobbo wrote:
| > what is so critical about the original design
|
| Maybe material/thickness which acts as thermal buffer and
| prevents too quick heating?
| RicoElectrico wrote:
| I do not think so, the knockoff uses more aluminum than
| Moka Express.
| klyrs wrote:
| For the longest time, I used a GSI single-shot moka. It's sold as
| camping gear; they sell little cups for it... but it's a terrible
| setup the handle tends to hang over the stove flame and then you
| can't drink your coffee. Instead, I used turkish teacups of an
| appropriate size. I used it camping exactly once (used enough gas
| to boil an entire pot of water), but it's great for use at home.
| The best coffee I've ever had came out of that thing, cooked on a
| wood stove, the temperature was _just so_ and the coffee came out
| one pendulous drip at a time while I sat next to the stove doing
| homework one cold winter day...
|
| Most of us don't have 15 minutes to wait for our coffee in the
| morning, but that shot was absolutely divine. Of course, I never
| did get the wood stove to exactly that temperature again, but now
| that I'm working at home, it would be worth experimenting with a
| PID controller.
|
| These days, I use a phin filter and a hot-water pot. Highly
| optimized for getting me out the door quickly -- I can wash the
| filter, make a coffee, feed the cat and the kid all in a flurry
| and it's always to taste.
| noneeeed wrote:
| Sometimes I think the thing I want more than anything in the
| world is the time to spend 15 minutes making a coffee in the
| morning.
|
| I feel like you've just given me my new life goal, a career and
| lifestyle that enables that.
| 1_player wrote:
| As someone that isn't content with their life, but has 15
| minutes to brew coffee in the morning and savour the
| experience, you've made me appreciate how fortunate I
| actually am. Thanks.
|
| Your goal is closer than you might think: I've found the time
| to brew my coffee when I quit the 9-5 rat race and I do
| remote consulting now, working my own hours. Good luck.
| lormayna wrote:
| As Italian I really suggest to buy a Kamira
| (https://www.espressokamira.net/) if you want to make espresso at
| home without an automatic cofee machine. Coffee made with moka is
| great, but it's a little different from the espresso. With
| Kamira, you can have espresso with the simplicity and portability
| of a moka.
| zemvpferreira wrote:
| Thank you for the suggestion, I just ordered one as a christmas
| present for my girlfriend!
|
| Worth noting they offer a really cheap personalized message
| option and are on black friday sale till the 30th!
| [deleted]
| toyg wrote:
| Ooh, thanks for this pointer - it could free me from the
| slavery of Nespresso... TBH it looks like it cannot entirely
| match the simplicity of Nespresso (I can drop a capsule and
| push a button in the morning when I don't even know my name,
| and there is nothing to clean), but it looks much cheaper,
| definitely easier on the environment, and a great bootstrap
| story coming from a "difficult" part of Italy.
| detritus wrote:
| Ooh, thank you - I think I see a potential present for my
| Italian Partner, grazie!
|
| (She's recently been using a Nespresso .. _spit_ Thing - a gift
| from her parents no less - over her usual Bialetti, and I
| refuse to make her a morning coffee using the damned thing.
| This might put us back on the path to morning harmony :) )
| lormayna wrote:
| For sure! She will appreciate it as the espresso that she can
| drink at the bar in Italy for 1EUR/cup
| 271828182846 wrote:
| that's an interesting design. never seen that anywhere. do they
| hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy? I find usual
| espresso machines to be too complicated and technical - also
| too expensive.
| [deleted]
| lormayna wrote:
| > do they hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy?
|
| Probably yes. It's just a "new" technology, so I don't know
| what are their plans for the future.
| JanSt wrote:
| how does the taste compare to a "normal" espresso machine?
| I'm currently using ESE pads with a La Piccola machine but
| want to move on because of all the trash the packaging of
| pads makes. The taste is quite good though, even compared
| to a "normal" espresso machine.
|
| edit: and how hard is it to find the correct temperature?
| I've often had the problem of my Bialetti getting to hot on
| the stove
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5-tBAiOM0&list=PLKby2eyvN
| 3... looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good
| thing?
| lormayna wrote:
| > how does the taste compare to a "normal" espresso
| machine?
|
| The taste is really comparable with the espresso that you
| can get at the bar.
|
| > how hard is it to find the correct temperature?
|
| This is the real issue with Kamira. Finding the perfect
| temperature is a bit tricky and it's not easy to do if
| you are in hurry in the morning.
|
| > looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good
| thing?
|
| The foam is fine.
| JanSt wrote:
| thanks!
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Have tried the Kamira. Apart from it being a bit weird looking,
| the coffe does come out _really_ good. Not an espresso though,
| but a very good coffee.
| prvc wrote:
| Very long article, from which I was unable to ascertain what was
| so brilliant about the Moka Pot. Unfortunately, this gizmo no
| longer provides the most convenient coffee-making method ("pods"
| seem to be more "convenient"), nor the least expensive in terms
| of equipment cost (that would be the "pour-over"). I can't see a
| niche for them today, aside from novelty or nostalgia.
| coolca wrote:
| Niche? Everyone uses them in Italy.
| rjsw wrote:
| And Italian electric hobs are made with one of the four
| heating elements much smaller to match the size of the Moka
| pot.
| mtrycz2 wrote:
| Moka (or its lesser known refinement, Brikka) is still the most
| convenient to me.
|
| It's small. It's 0 maintenance. It's works during blackouts or
| on a camping stove. Maybe not as fast as an applicance, but
| still fast.
|
| Compared to a bulky, single-purpose appliance which gives an
| aftertaste after a couple of months, yeah it's more convenient.
| brainlessdev wrote:
| I brew coffee using what's IMO the ultimate moka pot: the Alessi
| 9090. It's designed by Richard Sapper who also designed the first
| ThinkPad.
|
| I still think a proper espresso machine produces better...
| espressos, but in my tiny apartment the moka pot is a great
| alternative. There's certainly a fair bit of technique involved,
| so you probably won't produce your best coffee on the first go.
| martin_balsam wrote:
| And this is the ultimate HN answer.
|
| Even in a thread about coffee, it must mention ThinkPads
|
| But I also have the same moka. It's good
| fartcannon wrote:
| It's not the ultimate thread, though, until someone mentions
| that ThinkPads are made by Lenovo who got caught including
| spyware in their laptops. That reply will get at least 2
| replies that say, 'yah but never in the thinkpad lineup'
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| yah but never in the thinkpad lineup
| pell wrote:
| yah but never in the thinkpad lineup
| vanderZwan wrote:
| To be fair, it's like a combination of their two favorite
| things
| kingcharles wrote:
| If you go on the ThinkPad forums all they talk about is
| Moka Pots.
|
| It's turtles all the way down!
| bch wrote:
| I believe the 9090 doesn't usually have a red flourish, but
| this[0] anniversary edition does, and if you look at other
| Sapper work[1] you'll see how the red highlight, like the
| track point[2] seems to fit into a theme of his he works into
| various products.
|
| [0] https://www.finnishdesignshop.com/design-
| stories/classic/ale...
|
| [1] https://www.artemide.com/en/subfamily/18869/tizio
|
| [2] https://money.cnn.com/gallery/technology/2015/01/08/think
| pad...
| bch wrote:
| How's long have you been using it? How do you like it as a
| daily driver? If the handle/latch stays tight, it certainly
| does improve on the twist/twist/twist/twist... of (eg) Bialetti
| pots.
| brainlessdev wrote:
| Three months only, but without a doubt it's the best moka
| I've had. As a daily driver it's great:
|
| - For some reason it succeeds at temperatures lower than
| other mokas I've had, which is good for the taste as well as
| for energy savings and the life expectancy of the rubber
| piece.
|
| - It doesn't drip! All mokas I've had dripped at some point.
|
| - It doesn't have a plastic handle that will melt if you
| forget to turn off the stove (yup I've done this).
|
| I'm comparing it to an IKEA moka and several Bialetti mokas.
| Not fair in terms of price.
| hosteur wrote:
| To save anyone from googling this
| https://eu.alessi.com/products/9090-espresso-coffee-maker
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| The problem with traditional moka pots is that they can not be
| used on induction stoves. As people move from gaz to induction,
| they abandon Bialetti and Alessi gadgets.
| ValentineC wrote:
| I have a Bialetti Venus as my first and only moka pot, and
| it's still fabulous.
| soapdog wrote:
| They sell Bialetti's that work with induction these days,
| example: https://www.johnlewis.com/bialetti-venus-induction-
| stove-top...
| lm28469 wrote:
| Meh, you simply need an "adapter", a disk of metal that is
| compatible with induction stoves and will warm the moka pot
| on top.
| thinkindie wrote:
| Alessi 9090 is suitable for induction. Source: me. I used to
| use it on induction and you can also check on Alessi website
| (https://eu.alessi.com/products/9090-espresso-coffee-maker).
| I'm now using it on gas without any problem.
| carlmr wrote:
| My induction doesn't recognize small diameters.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Bialetti (and others) manufactures also stainless steel ones,
| not sure why would one buy aluminium ones (when we phased out
| aluminium from basically all other cookware).
|
| I am super happy with mine, close to a thousand coffees made
| with 0 maintenance, for 5% of the price of a good coffee
| machine. And the only waste is coffee grind itself.
| doctor_eval wrote:
| We have an aluminium Bialetti, but I really hate the feel
| of the aluminium after a while; I touch it with my fingers
| but I feel it in my teeth, I honestly can't stand it, just
| thinking about it puts my teeth on edge.
|
| Long story short, we bought a stainless steel version, and
| I love it so much. Probably made 3,000 coffees with it, and
| it's almost as good as the day we bought it. No a single
| part replaced or damaged.
|
| Really happy to hear they are coming back from the brink.
| Veen wrote:
| Yes, just get a steel one. Aluminium ones feel unpleasant
| to the touch and they don't survive the dishwasher. Two of
| mine have been killed that way. (To be clear, it's not me
| who put them in the dishwasher).
| lapinot wrote:
| > The problem with traditional moka pots is that they can not
| be used on induction stoves.
|
| Wrong. Any kind of ferromagnetic sheet of metal (ie even your
| random iron pie pan) will pick up induction. I regularly use
| a standard moka pot on my induction stove.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Aren't a lot of them aluminum? Or are those not
| "traditional"?
| compiler-guy wrote:
| The traditional ones are aluminum and therefore need an
| adapter to use on an induction stove which can be a
| simple ferrous sheet. The gp was quite obnoxious about
| saying that though.
| Flashtoo wrote:
| You can just use the ones suitable for induction stoves,
| though? I love my Bialetti induction moka pot.
| imbnwa wrote:
| Adapters also exist, which I use
| GuB-42 wrote:
| From what I've seen, stainless steel Bialettis (what you
| need for induction) are not the original "made in Italy".
| Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but there is little
| point sticking with the Bialetti brand if you want an
| induction moka pot.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| I've found that you have to use less heat on them so that
| the coffee extracts slower than the traditional bialetti
| and the "knockoff" that I bought was about as good. With
| similar heat I coudl tell just by the color it wasn't
| extracting the same
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Generally you want to use as little heat as possible when
| brewing with a moka pot. The most common issue people
| have with them is bitter coffee caused by burning their
| ground. The usual advice is to boil the water before
| filling and chilling as soon as the pot starts bubbling.
|
| From my point of view, if what you are looking for is a
| very finicky way of making coffee, you have two options:
| a cheap moka pot or an expensive coffee machine. Then
| again, I do have a Silvia. Finicky has a certain appeal.
| malermeister wrote:
| If you want actual espresso without using much more space,
| check out the wacaco picopresso. Super happy with it
| avereveard wrote:
| I prefer Giannina's - they're steel as well and the lock
| mechanism is wonderfully solid. In my family we had exactly 3:
| one at my grandparents', one at my parents', and one at my
| house. The 3-6 cup filter is a nice touch for when people comes
| over for dinner.
| dugditches wrote:
| I thought $200 for the Thinkpad Designer's was expensive.
| Then I saw the price of the Giannina.
|
| I'm sure the locking mechanism and aesthetics are much
| better, and they're a pleasure to use. But something about a
| $10 thrift store moka pot works well. And no qualms about
| taking it on a camping trip, to use over a fire.
| avereveard wrote:
| > 200$
|
| idk here even on amazon it's like 60eur new.
|
| anyway, I'd bring a Giannina over a campfire than any
| aluminium thrift moka. sure bottom will blacken a little
| externally, but ours lasted so long they all eventually
| blackened outside anyway.
| _ZeD_ wrote:
| what? a giannina is about 60EUR. and I assure you they last
| a lifetime (my parents still use one of them daily from
| before I was born, 40 years ago)
| et-al wrote:
| May you share where? From a cursory glance, US retailers
| only sell them for 1.5x the price: ~120 USD
| avereveard wrote:
| Just randomly found one at 99 here https://us.consigliosk
| itchenware.com/collections/giannina-es... (buyer beware I
| don't know the details) seems a fair price for the import
| costs.
|
| The 60EUR price I mentioned was from the Italian Amazon.
| et-al wrote:
| Thank you. I should've specified I was looking at larger
| 6/3 cup variant. Seems like Amazon.it has that for 75EUR
| versus 120 USD, but I agree that it's a fair price given
| import costs, running a business, and theoretical
| customer support.
| analog31 wrote:
| I religiously set a timer when I start my Bialetti. But like most
| things done religiously, you will eventually forget. First it
| produced the coffee. Then the heat rose up to the upper level,
| boiled the coffee, and sprayed it all out the spout, onto the
| stove and the wall behind it. Also, it melted the rubber gasket.
| I was alerted to the smell of burning coffee and rubber.
|
| Luckily, I got everything cleaned up, and made a new gasket from
| bike innertube rubber, which worked OK. Then I discovered that I
| could buy a new gasket. One sign of a classic product is when you
| can buy spare parts for it.
| pjmorris wrote:
| We have a 12-cup Bialetti as our daily driver. Our 6-cup Bialetti
| is now the travel pot, currently sitting on the inlaw's stove. It
| goes with us nearly everywhere. I don't take it backpacking, but
| I have pulled off making coffee with it on top of my backpacking
| stove. The stack looks like a rocket on the launchpad, ready to
| topple over, but, so far, it hasn't.
|
| Wonderful technology. Like a Guy Clark song, it's 'Stuff That
| Works.'
| simon_acca wrote:
| For anybody wondering how a moka pot works, have a look at this
| neutron imaging of the pot in action:
| https://youtu.be/VESMU7JfVHU
| jeffrallen wrote:
| This is my daily driver coffee maker. Mine is over 15 years old.
|
| Drinking coffee like an Italian grandma makes me happy.
|
| As an aside, in 2008, I saw a production of Tosca, by Opera North
| (Yorkshire, England).
| https://web.archive.org/web/20081025105247/http://www.leedsg...
| In it was a priest, who glumly watched the action unfold around
| him, powerless to stop it. His only consolation was the ritual of
| making coffee in his Moka. Sometimes I think about that opera
| while brewing my coffee...
| mino wrote:
| Italian born and raised, but moved around in various contries.
|
| I own a handful of Bialetti mokas of different sizes. A couple
| of those are from my teenager years, I don't even remember
| buying them, they might have been from my parents. I still use
| them multiple times daily.
|
| Mokas are for life. As long as you replace the plastic gasket
| once in a while (a couple bucks) and you don't accidentally
| melt the handle (which you can replace anyway) they'll outlive
| all of us.
| infotogivenm wrote:
| Came here to say this. Everytime i look at a moka I am
| delighted about how sturdy it is, and think about how no one
| builds stuff built to last as long anymore. cast aluminum
| ftw.
| mino wrote:
| Exactly: at its core a moka is just a casted aluminium
| blob. Good luck breaking that one.
|
| Replaceable parts are a few euros.
| Lio wrote:
| I love the simplicity and perfection of a moka pot.
|
| The Dualit toaster is another piece of "built to last"
| kitchen equipment.
|
| https://www.dualit.com/products/classic-toasters
|
| Pressed steel panels and all parts available since 1946.
| They're made for caterers so you probably won't ever need
| to repair it if you're using it domestically.
|
| We've had ours since 2004ish and it still looks and works
| exactly like new.
| INTPenis wrote:
| Strange that this crops up now because my mother just found one
| at her second hand store and started using it last week. Showed
| it to me this weekend when I visited.
|
| She's bosnian so she's made coffee with a turkish coffee pot
| directly on the stove most of my life. As a kid I would also
| grind beans for her in an old brass hand cranked grinder from
| Bosnia. When you grind the beans yourself by hand they do tend to
| be a bit coarser, fitting for the moka pot.
| collaborative wrote:
| I went ahead and bought one (couldn't find my old one anywhere)
| when my 5 year old Nespresso machine broke a few months ago
|
| The coffee is delicious and I don't have to use plastic pods. And
| I now spend a pittance on coffee
| swah wrote:
| And its like 20 seconds to make, come back in 5 minutes,
| delicious coffee.
|
| Hats off to the marketing team on Nespresso
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| What scares me about trying moka is I might enjoy it more
| than espresso (which I add water or milk to anyway) and
| obsolete my espresso machine and the effort I've gone into
| mastering the basics!
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| It's doubtful you will. It doesn't make espresso like an
| espresso machine does; it's more like coffee. I like them
| both and like a moka and a french press, they aren't really
| substitutes for each other.
| beebmam wrote:
| If you're boiling the coffee (which is what the moka pot does),
| you're burning the coffee. I love moka pot brews, but as least be
| honest: you're burning it!
| aneutron wrote:
| You're not. Not if you heat your water before putting in the
| grounds. Practically speaking, once you heat your water, it's a
| matter of seconds to get the coffee rolling.
|
| You should try it.
| bruprup wrote:
| Interesting, but I think it's exactly opposite - I would
| think using water at 4C (the densest water gets) would give
| you the lowest brew temperature.
|
| With water at 4C, puts the most water inside the pressure
| chamber, leading to the greatest pressure change for a given
| delta(T). Instead, if the water is just below boiling, the
| water going through the grinds must be higher than 100 C
| (since the pressure raises the boiling point).
|
| It'll brew faster, and there is an argument to be made that
| quicker brews lead to less burning. But the T would be
| highest.
| foobarian wrote:
| If you start with cold water the increasing vapor pressure
| on the way to boiling will force some of the water through
| the coffee at varying temperatures, but past that it will
| reach steady state and end up pushing boiling water. Not
| sure how much of a difference there is in getting to that
| point. I don't think pressure matters much since the
| Bialetti is not a high pressure vessel (maybe 1.5atm
| probably less if beans are really coarse).
|
| Boiling less quickly (i.e. using lower heat) might put the
| coffee in contact with boiling water for longer. So it
| would seem high heat and cold water would be the way to go
| if you want to minimize the temperature-time product of the
| beans-to-water contact.
| bruprup wrote:
| Now I want to make two batches of coffee and measure the
| resultant coffee's temperature.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The Moka pot works by vapour pressure, not boiling per se.
|
| In the three-chamber design, there's a tight seal between the
| lower chamber (filled with water), and the cup (filled with
| grounds), connected by the siphon pipe.
|
| As the water is heated, _even before it reaches boiling point_
| , it's being forced up through the grounds. The last dregs of
| water are steam-hot, but earlier is not. And the liquid water
| keeps the temperature of the entire pot (including coffee) at
| or below the boiling point.
|
| The pressure and heat should result in a strong, rich, but not
| bitter, brew.
|
| Leaving the pot on the stove after it begins to "spit" (as
| steam sputters up the stempipe) _will_ burn the coffee (and
| seals and pot). So Don 't Do That.
| zonovar wrote:
| As an Italian living abroad I can tell you that one or two old
| Moka always travel with you. There's always space for a Moka in
| your luggage. My experience is also that the best coffee comes
| from the old beaten up and a bit burned Moka owned by your old
| grandma.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| > Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive,
| difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy
| perspective. They do not really make sense for the home.
|
| The author talks about the La Pavoni Ideale, but I don't get how
| they missed La Pavoni's current bread and butter, the Europiccola
| and Professional, both of which are more than small enough to fit
| in a kitchen, make great espresso, and have been sold since the
| 1960s.
| Lio wrote:
| I love the idea of a La Pavoni hand pump machine. Such a
| beautiful design.
|
| Sadly though, the truth is I can barely work my existing semi-
| automatic espresso maker until I've had my first shot of the
| day!
|
| If I had a fully manual machine that first shot would end in
| some kind of Clouseauesque[1] destruction of my kitchen...
|
| 1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Clouseauesque
| seg_lol wrote:
| If we are talking about efficiency, you can brew wonderful
| coffee w/o ever getting up to 100C. Using steam to diffuse out
| the essence from the grounds is one great way, but there are so
| many other ones as well.
|
| Coffee brewing is like a thermodynamic engine diagram, lots of
| different routes along the temperature, pressure, mass, flow
| rate, ground size and packed density dimensions.
| vanderZwan wrote:
| I recommend putting googly eyes on the top lid[0]. That way, even
| if you're home alone you will start your day with a happy friend
| who will gladly pour you a cup of comfort. Always cheers me up a
| bit!
|
| [0] https://i.imgur.com/MGUj9cV.png
| Hamuko wrote:
| Don't those get hot? Adhesives and heat don't really mix well.
|
| - Tried to once fix an electric kettle with duct tape.
| fy20 wrote:
| High temperature silicon based sealants are used for sealing
| engines. Hardware stores usually sell small tubes (50ml or
| so) which is enough for odd repair jobs like that.
| unixhero wrote:
| As you can see in the photo, there is discoloration on the
| plastic. Yes these have almost melted several times.
| vanderZwan wrote:
| Correct, but it doesn't touch the coffee nor do I have to
| touch that part of the lid, so I'm not too worried (also I
| just pretend my buddy is getting old and blind with age)
| zerocount wrote:
| Speaking of duct tape, I'm using it as a bandaid right now.
| It really is a universal 'fix all.' haha
| KineticLensman wrote:
| Yes. The rules of DIY: If it moves when it shouldn't, use
| duct tape[0]. If it doesn't move when it should, use WD40
|
| [0] A slightly heretical alternative here is to use cable
| ties, daisy-chained if necessary for larger jobs.
| p_l wrote:
| Arguably cable ties are the plastic edition of pre-tape
| bailing wire
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Googly eyes improve absolutely everything. Change my mind.
|
| QED: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=eD8QVQXQevA
| vanderZwan wrote:
| Googly eyes _and_ a dinosaur. For when you want to leave
| nothing to chance
| yumraj wrote:
| BTW, talking of coffee, if you haven't tried roasting your own
| coffee, you're missing something.
|
| I'm not a coffee snob and can't tell difference between regions
| and so on. But coffee fresh roasted, using an air popcorn maker
| in my case, tastes amazingly better than anything else.
|
| I just get green coffee samplers since I don't care about one
| region vs another, just fresh roast, wait a day or two, fresh
| ground gives great results.
| yosito wrote:
| As an American, I never used a moka pot until I moved to the
| Dominican Republic. Almost everyone there uses moka pots, which
| they call a greca cafetera. When I learned how to use one, I fell
| in love, and because of that people started telling me I was
| "aplatanao" (assimilated). Now I live in Hungary. Here a moka pot
| is called a kotyogos kavezogep, and when I make coffee with it,
| people say "you're so Hungarian". Everyone technically knows it
| was originally invented in Italy, but because of it's simplicity
| and ubiquity, in many places it's considered "the people's" way
| of making coffee.
|
| I absolutely love it. It's the simplest way to make a good
| coffee, and the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper
| espresso made with a fancy machine.
| toyg wrote:
| _> the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso_
|
| I'm with you, but my mum (Italian) nowadays just refuses to
| drink espresso. She worked in hospitals, and they would make
| coffee with mokas all day long, so that's what she wants. At
| home, I have to keep a Bialetti and a single pack of Lavazza
| just for her, for when she comes over once a year.
| foobarian wrote:
| I've seen the moka on the Croatian side as well, where they
| call it a "kafeterija." Here's one neat trick some of the moka
| users there have: put about 1 teaspoon of sugar in your cup,
| then as soon as the water starts to percolate (about 1cm of
| coffee in the top compartment) take it off the heat and pour
| about 1cm over the sugar. Put back on heat to finish
| percolating. Meanwhile use the back of a teaspoon to grind the
| sugar into the coffee, really press into it like a mortar and
| pestle. You need the consistency to be about the viscosity of
| honey. Then fill your cup and stir. You end up with a
| delicious, rich, sweet white foam at the top.
| sbierwagen wrote:
| Amusing that you say this, since it's mentioned in the
| article:
|
| > the Cuban concoction _cafecito_ is made by quickly whipping
| the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a
| paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic
| espresso foam.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-11-26 23:02 UTC)