[HN Gopher] Nearly two-thirds of Gen Z think they'll become cryp...
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       Nearly two-thirds of Gen Z think they'll become crypto millionaires
        
       Author : oblib
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2021-11-25 18:18 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fortune.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fortune.com)
        
       | notcoolbezos wrote:
       | hell no, i think i'll be a crypto billionaire
       | 
       | edit: added crypto
        
       | sergiomattei wrote:
       | Anecdotal evidence, but most Gen Z folks I know (I'm Gen Z)
       | either don't know how to use crypto or think it's a scam similar
       | to Forex.
       | 
       | I'm wondering about the audience they surveyed.
        
         | thebean11 wrote:
         | Confused by your forex comment..do gen z folks know what that
         | is? It's not a scam..
        
           | sergiomattei wrote:
           | There's a whole scam artist community around it.
        
             | didon15 wrote:
             | Just as there is with the us stock market and penny stocks.
        
           | bradleyjg wrote:
           | Within a rounding error, retail forex trading is a scam.
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | Forex _trading_, as promoted to normal people, is often very,
           | very scammy. Obviously foreign exchange, in itself, isn't.
        
           | hardlianotion wrote:
           | As practiced by the majority of established banks in the UK,
           | it is.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | Some probably also thought they'd be Youtube stars or Spotify
       | gods. But they won't. And they're slowly learning that.
       | 
       | Investing of any kind is a winner-take-all game. Crypto
       | especially so. Those who already had money to come in early will
       | make the bulk of the future gains.
       | 
       | All that the young people they really have is the community
       | around crypto, and perhaps the ability to mutually lament their
       | lot in life.
        
         | jackhalford wrote:
         | > Some probably also thought they'd be Youtube stars or Spotify
         | gods. But they won't. And they're slowly learning that.
         | 
         | Isn't this a line out of Fight Club?
         | 
         | edit: found it [1], I like this quote.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/33533-we-ve-all-been-
         | raised...
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Indeed it is. Plus ca change...
        
       | focusgroup0 wrote:
       | assuming we keep getting stimmy checks, it's likely we'll all
       | soon be millionaires
        
       | poulsbohemian wrote:
       | The other third thinks they will get rich as influencers...
       | 
       | Seriously, it's hard being a parent of this generation and trying
       | to get them to understand how much of what they are consuming is
       | an illusion.
        
         | monocasa wrote:
         | I think a lot of gen z see the traditional route as just as
         | much of an illusion, and at least crypto and influencers are
         | exciting.
        
       | tlear wrote:
       | With how the inflation is going they might be right
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | No, seriously, this. I'll say this, I don't know what's going
         | to happen. No clue at all. But it feels like NOT putting
         | SOMETHING in, at least enough to stave off future ROMO would be
         | stupid.
        
           | bhouston wrote:
           | If you hold assets of most type you are protected against
           | inflation, it doesn't have to be crypto.
           | 
           | But avoid long-term bonds and cash -- those get destroy in
           | times of inflation.
        
           | hereme888 wrote:
           | Sad to see your comment greyed out. What you said makes
           | sense.
           | 
           | All major banks and lots of hedge funds are investing in it
           | for a reason. Softbank invested $92MM in a crypto video game
           | (The Sand).... These people aren't stupid investors.
        
             | jakemauer wrote:
             | Are we talking about the same smart investors at Softbank
             | that invested heavily in WeWork?
        
       | nradov wrote:
       | Well they might eventually be right! If the US dollar collapses
       | in a couple decades due to continued irresponsible levels of
       | fiscal stimulus then _everyone_ will be a millionaire. Of course
       | at that point it will take a million dollars to buy a loaf of
       | bread.
        
         | llimos wrote:
         | This is an absolutely brilliant comment and one I am definitely
         | keeping in my back pocket for future debates on the subject!
        
       | wesleywt wrote:
       | Exactly the type of nonsense HN loves to read.
        
       | wcoenen wrote:
       | The title seems to be a misquote, or at least a misleading
       | interpretation from the survey results. Note how in the actual
       | source[1] it's not specifically about Gen Z. It also says they
       | believe they "could", not "will" become millionaires from crypto.
       | It says nothing about the probability. "Could" I win the lottery
       | tomorrow? Sure, yes. But I won't.
       | 
       | > _31% of U.S. Adults believe they can become millionaires off
       | crypto investments, driven heavily by young adults. 59% of Gen Z
       | and 46% of Millennials believe they could become millionaires
       | from crypto investments._
       | 
       | [1] https://engine-insights.com/blog/the-pulse-of-the-
       | american-c...
        
       | taurath wrote:
       | At any given social gathering among even non tech people I know,
       | there's always a side conversation happening about crypto. It's
       | the same people who go spend too much at casinos, or are only
       | talking about the next business venture. It's a bit of an
       | obsession.
       | 
       | Another extremely frequent conversation is over the impossibility
       | of owning a home on not-tech salaries. I think they're related.
       | People don't think they can really reach goals related to life
       | stability unless they win some sort of lottery. To me this is
       | really worrying, not because it's wrong but because for many it's
       | right. A slightly higher than median salary used to mean one is
       | in the middle class. A whole generation doesn't believe they have
       | any opportunities.
        
         | pdog wrote:
         | _> People don't think they can really reach goals related to
         | life stability unless they win some sort of lottery._
         | 
         | People think this because it's true. The median U.S. income is
         | no longer enough to cover a year of basic expenses, or achieve
         | reasonable goals, even if you work for the entire year[1].
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/24/this-
         | char...
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | "His concern about what he calls "market fundamentalism"
           | derives from the way those markets are failing American
           | families."
           | 
           | Free-market extremists provably ruined more lives than all
           | terrorists combined
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > A whole generation doesn't believe they have any
         | opportunities.
         | 
         | Even those _in_ tech believe we don 't have any meaningful
         | opportunities. Real talk: most of what we do day in day out for
         | our employers is _shit_ built upon bullshit built upon a house
         | of cards, and it will come crashing down sooner than later. The
         | European Union is finally flexing its muscles, other countries
         | are beginning to follow suit against the digital corporations,
         | even the US Congress is asking questions from both parties now.
         | And where will we all be when the venture capital dries up,
         | when entire business models are outright banned or made
         | virtually impossible because of privacy regulations? Or when
         | those we work for (especially in the automotive or other
         | carbon-sensitive industries) have to cut down costs or close
         | shop?
         | 
         | If you work at Facebook or Google (and to a lesser extent
         | Microsoft and Apple), everything you do follows exactly one
         | motive: make as much profit for the shareholders as possible by
         | advertising people stuff they don't need. Most of what everyone
         | else is doing is either directly related to advertising, to
         | creating a new product that is only marginally better than the
         | previous version or to extracting money out of someone else for
         | services they don't need.
         | 
         | Bullshit jobs? We are in a _bullshit economy_ , and the circle
         | of capitalism forces us to ever-increasing economic growth -
         | it's obvious that the path we are on as a species is pointing
         | straight to our downfall, be it by climate change, by a
         | resource-resetting war or by exhaustion of vital natural
         | resources.
         | 
         | Disagree? Ask yourself when was the last time you created
         | something at work that provides a net benefit to society's
         | survival.
        
           | dwaltrip wrote:
           | This is a sexy half-truth.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | > Disagree? Ask yourself when was the last time you created
           | something at work that provides a net benefit to society's
           | survival.
           | 
           | I think you have a point, but at the same time I'm not sure
           | it's possible for everybody or even most people to have jobs
           | that are crucial to society. Once you hit certain technology
           | level and population thresholds, a lot of jobs become all
           | about optimization and margins -- even those that have more
           | of a concrete role in society. It's unavoidable unless we
           | drop back to pre-1900s technology and/or population levels.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | > It's unavoidable unless we drop back to pre-1900s
             | technology and/or population levels.
             | 
             | No. What we need to do is to not define our worth as humans
             | by the work we do. Only then we can truly automate our
             | crucial needs (i.e. food production, transportation) as far
             | as possible without fearing massive social unrest by
             | millions of people "without employment". A single train
             | conductor replaces a hundred truck drivers. Many
             | governmental services could be done by the citizens
             | themselves based on automated processes. Most teachers
             | (especially the ones who spend all their day droning in
             | front of a blackboard) could be replaced by videos.
             | 
             | The only thing where we will definitely need humans in the
             | future is research, care work and construction/trades.
             | Everything else? Look at the Star Trek economy.
        
               | inglor_cz wrote:
               | The rich Gulf sheikdoms are a place where the citizens do
               | not really need to work and do not define their worth by
               | their work.
               | 
               | They still struggle with various social pathologies -
               | alcohol, drugs, domestic violence, religious extremism.
               | 
               | I think some people cannot handle a life that is too
               | easy. Arguably, even modern Westerners from richer
               | backgrounds tend to plunge into surrogate struggles or
               | take up very distant causes.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > They still struggle with various social pathologies -
               | alcohol, drugs, domestic violence, religious extremism.
               | 
               | The domestic violence / religious extremism is a result
               | of the Western nations favoring radical Islam
               | interpretations as a base for the regimes they bought
               | their oil from. A kingdom/dictatorship where the ruling
               | class has their assets (i.e. their oil money) in Western
               | nations is more stable for oil supply than a democracy.
        
               | inglor_cz wrote:
               | In Western nations, people in that situation may join
               | some weird cults instead.
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | I am fully supportive of moving the economy to a "Star
               | Trek" model, and think that from a technical perspective
               | that doing so will be achievable within the next 1-2
               | decades.
               | 
               | It would require both political will and lack of
               | obstruction from large employers and entities invested in
               | residential real estate however, and I don't see that
               | happening in the US for the foreseeable future short of a
               | near-total turnover of the current elected body of
               | politicians, rooting out any who would rather be in the
               | pockets of lobbyists than represent the people.
        
               | withinboredom wrote:
               | Since moving to the EU, I can count the number of times
               | someone has actually cared what I do for a living. It
               | took a few years for me not to care too. I think one of
               | my friends works in a machine shop and another at a bike
               | shop, but I really have no idea. We hang out, play games
               | together, complain about people at our jobs, and all the
               | normal stuff. Yet, not once have we actually talked about
               | what we do for a living.
               | 
               | In the US, the question of what I did for a living was
               | one of the first questions in any conversation, as if my
               | answer was who I was and defined my worth in their eyes.
               | I don't miss it.
        
         | blablabla123 wrote:
         | Same, and I often wonder if people want to start some kind of
         | scam. I mean the reality is probably that investing in crypto
         | is much riskier, has probably a much lower expected yield than
         | say trading with (covered) derivatives. But I also think it has
         | to do with some kind of FOMO. Everybody knows someone who knows
         | someone that got a ridiculously high return on investment
         | because they bought the stuff 10 years ago. On the other hand
         | it's possible to buy very well-understood derivates today with
         | equal chances on public companies.
         | 
         | > It's the same people who go spend too much at casinos
         | 
         | YMMV but my experience is actually the opposite. I.e. rather
         | the gambling types actually buy derivates and everybody else
         | considers buying crypto or has already done so.
        
           | bhouston wrote:
           | > I mean the reality is probably that investing in crypto is
           | much riskier, has probably a much lower expected yield than
           | say trading with (covered) derivatives.
           | 
           | For now it isn't, because it has been going up and to the
           | right for quite some time. But the music can stop at some
           | point...
        
           | tata71 wrote:
           | Yeah, GP's circle seems at least mildly privileged..
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | Didn't they say this about generation X and Amway?
        
       | Hydraulix989 wrote:
       | What kinds of returns and from what initial investment?
       | 
       | If you got into crypto in the time leading up to 2013, 2017, and
       | 2020, you could have 10x'd your bag easily.
       | 
       | I suspect having a technical understanding helped appreciate the
       | value of Ethereum, Filecoin, Avalanche, etc. before everyone
       | else, while simultaneously knowing to avoid Tron, Litecoin,
       | Cardano, etc. which lack technical merit. (Although even properly
       | timing the latter would have generated lucrative returns...)
       | 
       | And then having enough sophistication as an investor to liquidate
       | your holdings at peak hysteria when the layperson was asking
       | about crypto.
        
         | jollybean wrote:
         | "Initial investment"
         | 
         | It's not an 'investment', it's just playing 'trading cards'
         | with invented numbers, based on nothing.
         | 
         | "having a technical understanding "
         | 
         | No, having a 'technical understanding' just enables the
         | obfuscation of the Giant Scam even more.
         | 
         | "having enough sophistication as an investor "
         | 
         | If you think it's 'sophistication' then you're in the 'fish'
         | category being fed to sharks. Markets crash when the
         | leads/powerful decide to make their moves (which includes the
         | central bank actions, regulatory apparatus).
         | 
         | The magic numbers may continue to trade for a long time but
         | it's still a scam.
        
           | odonnellryan wrote:
           | I saw someone here or on Reddit discussing how BTC is
           | guaranteed to 3x at least each year for the next 1-2 decades.
           | 
           | I mean... Putting $100 into crypto today and being set for
           | life really sounds nice but I highly doubt any market could
           | support that kind of growth....
        
         | bellyfullofbac wrote:
         | Can I replace "technical understanding" /"sophistication" with
         | "luck" here?
         | 
         | I'd ask why you think the "good" coins are good and the bad
         | ones are bad, but I feel like that would just lead to cherry-
         | picked data...
        
           | Hydraulix989 wrote:
           | Ethereum was the first cryptocurrency that does decentralized
           | general purpose computation aka smart contracts.
           | 
           | Filecoin decentralizes storage.
           | 
           | Avalanche has the first Byzantine consensus mechanism (within
           | a reasonable bound, read the paper) that does not rely on
           | proof of work aka energy wasting.
           | 
           | If these neither excite you nor stand out from forks of other
           | coins (Litecoin is Bitcoin with a different hashing function,
           | Tron is just marketing, Cardano is centralized), then yes,
           | you are right, you are at a casino.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | I remember when it was invented, debating with friends the
             | virtues of turing complete ethereum vs non turing complete
             | bitcoin script - its still not clear to me why you'd want
             | to do general purpose computation on the world's slowest
             | most expensive computer.
             | 
             | edit while i still can: no wifi, less space than a nomad.
        
               | MathYouF wrote:
               | The main problem computation on the world's slowest most
               | expensive computer solves is lack of trust in doing it on
               | any other computer. The increased cost and decreased
               | speed is worth it in some use cases for the increased
               | insurance against the pre-determined computation not
               | being run correctly or at all (making a payout based on
               | certain data, usually outcomes of events, like for
               | insurance or gambling).
        
               | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
               | > The main problem computation on the world's slowest
               | most expensive computer solves is lack of trust in doing
               | it on any other computer
               | 
               | This is an invented problem. "lack of trust" is an
               | meaningless abstract; there is no specific concrete
               | benefit to "solving" it.
        
               | odonnellryan wrote:
               | Most of the cool business uses/potentials of Blockchain
               | do not require decentralization and are definitely made
               | more complex by it.
        
             | throwaway1777 wrote:
             | But the best technology doesn't always win.
        
               | thoughtstheseus wrote:
               | Agreed. The crypto market will win eventually, the tech
               | is better. Today though, there're more bubbles in the
               | crypto market than a roll of bubble wrap. I'm just hoping
               | the government doesn't bail out the losers.
        
           | UncleMeat wrote:
           | Monero has always been my go-to example of this. It truly
           | does achieve something that other coins do not, but it
           | doesn't see meteoric rise like things like Shib or whatever.
        
       | exolymph wrote:
       | Teenagers are dumb, news at 11.
        
       | sschueller wrote:
       | This is the same gen-z that follow those youtubers and tiktok
       | stars pumping and dumping crypto coins?
       | 
       | It's appalling what is going on with these blatantly illegal pump
       | and dumps as well as rug pulls right in front on the FTC.
        
         | seibelj wrote:
         | If you could earn anything with a simple savings account, or
         | safe assets like bonds, then the obsession with finding the
         | Next Big Thing in finance wouldn't be anywhere near as popular.
         | But there are no options - it's finding something to gamble on,
         | or lose your wealth to inflation. No one wants to have their
         | life savings inflated away.
        
           | UncleMeat wrote:
           | But there are different kinds of gambling. VTI will almost
           | certainly crush inflation over a period of decades. The weird
           | token that my brother-in-law is buying doesn't have the same
           | risk profile as that.
        
           | gkuan wrote:
           | US I-series savings bonds are yielding 7.1% (and is tax
           | advantaged) which seems to be better than the staking yields
           | of the more reputable PoS coins.
        
       | jeppesen-io wrote:
       | I don't know where they get this nonsense. Anyone who actually
       | talks or works with gen z would know this. Not that it matters,
       | but I'm in my late 30s. These type of articles about the
       | dumb/bad/ignorant the next generation are growing very tiring
        
       | jollybean wrote:
       | About 1/3 of them want to pursue careers in Social Media as
       | 'influences' as well.
       | 
       | Gen Z will be 'crypto millionaires' but those millions will be
       | worthless.
       | 
       | I think finally we can say 'The Kids Are Not Alright' without
       | being entirely old cranks, or rather, there is a kind of a
       | problem that didn't exist before now that we are in 'the age of
       | surplus' at least for middle->upper tier kids.
       | 
       | When I hear Crypto talk, all I hear are sad addicted gamblers
       | talking about 'The Slot That's Tilted to Win' which is only
       | marginally better than classical investors just speculating, but
       | at the very least, investing and allocation of capital are
       | materially important things.
       | 
       | The saddest thing of all is that an entire generation thinks that
       | wealth comes out of thin air, and that they somehow deserve to be
       | rich because of some luck entirely disconnected with the
       | collective participation, work and input of a lot of people.
       | 'Inequality' is a problem no doubt, and a lot of the 'rich'
       | didn't do much to earn it either, but that's a separate question.
        
         | azmodeus wrote:
         | Don't write off gen z, write off their parents and educators
         | who haven't shown them another way.
         | 
         | We have created a harsh economic climate, surely we are more
         | responsible than the next generation.
         | 
         | Tech has built a brand of meteoric magic, it's not surprising
         | snake oil can be sold in such an environment.
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | Their parents hit their early adulthood with the advent of
           | the internet. I don't think anyone knew wtf was going on.
        
         | sergiomattei wrote:
         | > The saddest thing of all is that an entire generation thinks
         | that wealth comes out of thin air
         | 
         | Citation needed
        
           | jollybean wrote:
           | The citation is in the title: believing that people are going
           | to get rich by holding/trading magic numbers, which is not a
           | value creating activity, is believing that they're going to
           | get rich by creating value out of thin air.
        
       | milliams wrote:
       | "will" != "can"
        
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