[HN Gopher] Why a toaster from 1949 is still smarter than any so...
___________________________________________________________________
Why a toaster from 1949 is still smarter than any sold today
Author : ourmandave
Score : 168 points
Date : 2021-11-25 17:02 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| JoeDaDude wrote:
| But...does it run on Linux?
| https://www.embeddedarm.com/blog/netbsd-toaster-powered-by-t...
| ls15 wrote:
| But can it collect data about its user and show ads?
| askvictor wrote:
| I've used quite a few toasters in my years (including this one),
| but don't understand why, as the toaster gets older, it tends to
| burn toast. I've noticed this from both cheap, and not-so-cheap
| toasters. Any ideas what changes in a toaster over a few years of
| use to cause this?
|
| I've picked up these from hard rubbish a couple of times, but
| they did tend to burn the toast a bit; kind of wishing I had
| tried to re-furbish them, now knowing how the mechanism works.
| IncRnd wrote:
| A toaster will often start to burn toast when the toaster isn't
| clean.
|
| When there are a lot of food particles at the bottom that
| detritus can increase the heat from the heating elements. So,
| the best way to avoid this is to clean the appliance.
| jonah wrote:
| I have several of these and can confirm they're awesome and very
| satisfying to use (when they're working correctly).
| JoshGlazebrook wrote:
| Honestly, I searched for a great toaster after going through a
| few cheap ones and I always came back to this Japanese "steam"
| toaster. - https://us.balmuda.com/products/balmuda-the-toaster
|
| $300 for a toaster seems insane, but it honestly is worth it. You
| fill the little 5cc "cup" with water and pour it in, and it uses
| steam to lock in moisture and then toast. Toast (and honestly
| everything else) comes out perfectly crisp all over and the
| inside stays moist.
| balaji1 wrote:
| This toaster was expensive when it launched, but could be
| considered worth the money since it would last for a long time
| and it seems to have a good resale price even today.
|
| On the other hand, today it is hard to buy simple things of good
| quality on Amazon - example 100% cotton or 100% woolen clothes.
| And it would be harder in a physical superstore like Target or
| Walmart.
| crooked-v wrote:
| You might appreciate the BuyItForLife subreddit. The ad hoc
| nature can make it hard to find stuff, but the posts are
| generally all direct testimonial by people who have had a given
| item for an extended period of time.
| cassepipe wrote:
| Ok I guess now is the time and place to complain to whomever
| cares about toaster design. Why is it that the metal grid that
| holds the bread has its bars so wide apart ? I don't toast only
| industrial square bread, I happen to regularly toast good state
| of the art european bakery bread that have very different slice
| sizes. It is maddenig to have your slice slip trhough the metal
| bars and prevent the toaster from going up or having to go
| fishing for your slice with whatever tool you think fit for the
| job, in 2021. Is my use case that specific ? I have been looking
| for a toaster with a tight grid bread holder but could not find
| one so far. Please help.
| myself248 wrote:
| Same problem! I bake a lot of my own bread and often end up
| with odd-shaped lumps of loaf-ends which fall between the
| wires.
|
| Also I wish I could get a narrow-slot toaster. I never toast
| bagels, and I feel like a the ubiquitous wide-slot designs
| waste energy and take longer because there's so much
| unnecessary room for air to convection-cool the bread.
| notacoward wrote:
| My wife has one of these and she's crazy about it. I'm less
| enthusiastic, especially since it has no protection against the
| outside getting hot enough to melt or burn anything carelessly
| put next to it. Maybe an update addressing that and some of the
| other issues mentioned in OP would yield a toaster that would
| make both of us happy.
| Gigachad wrote:
| It's also live while turned off so if you ever put a fork in
| it, it's deadly.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| This actually applies to a lot of old tech and old software. The
| idea that old == bad is permanently seared into the brains of
| people. Thanks to marketing. There should be a good balance
| between trying out new things (new JS frameworks!) and then if it
| doesn't work, STOP. Modern society is moving towards criticism ==
| bad, which leads to things like Youtube removing dislike
| visibility and inability to challenge ideas in a corporate
| setting (someone might just get offended by criticism).
|
| My hope and expectation for society is to balance experimentation
| and criticism. We need both in equal amounts. A good analogy that
| I keep is gradient descend algorithm - if we get stuck in a local
| optima, unless we undo things, there is no way to improve (This
| is criticism). At the same time, if we don't allow picking new
| directions, improvement is hopeless (This is experimentation).
| cuddlybacon wrote:
| Since everyone is mentioning Technology Connections (he deserves
| it, great channel), I want to bring up this video:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0
|
| To me, this really shows the sad direction smart appliances have
| gone in. I would love to see that smart appliances would have
| continued to evolve in this direction. I don't like the current
| state of smart appliances, but going back to the absolute basic
| seems like an over-reaction to me.
| oblio wrote:
| It's remarkably difficult to find something as automated at it.
|
| This should be super cheap and ubiquitous tech but apparently it
| isn't. Most of the other stuff uses electronics and does more but
| is actually dumber as an overall device.
|
| For example many can set a target duration or target temperature
| but because they don't take into account the bread temperature
| they don't defrost as well.
| malleefowl wrote:
| If anyone is looking to buy one, I recently bought a restored
| Sunbeam T-20 from timstoasters.com and love it. He even replaced
| the plug with a polarized one.
| deskamess wrote:
| Where exactly is the buy page? I see everything but that!
| malleefowl wrote:
| I just used the form at timstoasters.com/order and said I was
| looking to buy instead of restore. I agree it could be easier
| to find!
| deskamess wrote:
| Thanks for the info. How was pricing? I assume it has be on
| the high side given the restoration.
| malleefowl wrote:
| Mine was $360 with shipping. Obviously very high compared
| to a new toaster, but I wouldn't have wanted to do the
| wiring myself, so worth it for me.
| dangle1 wrote:
| Holy cow. We have one of these handed down to us. After
| learning how to calibrate the springs, it runs great.
| Didn't realize how much wealth it created for us as well.
| t0mas88 wrote:
| What are polarised plugs? The article also mentions it but I
| have no idea what it is and why it's safer.
| will0 wrote:
| Without a polarised plug it means current can 'flow' the
| 'wrong' way through the toaster, backwards through the
| heating coils.
|
| Which is to say when the toaster is plugged in but off, the
| heating coils could still be live, and touching them would
| shock you.
| pickledish wrote:
| His whole channel (called Technology Connections) is probably my
| favorite one on YouTube, can't recommend it enough! My favorites
| are his series on refrigeration and heat pumps, for example this
| one:
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto
|
| Edit: to clarify, this article is based on an old Technology
| Connections video, and the creator of that video has lots more!
| netizen-936824 wrote:
| Seconded, I learned a ton about A/V systems from him. He has
| excellent technical content. Learning about how the old
| electromechanical juke boxes worked was fascinating.
|
| I can also recommend Applied Science. He explains the concepts
| behind numerous concepts and applies them to a home project in
| his garage. Such project include: Home made electron microscope
| Chemical glass strengthening Robotic cookie maker Creating
| X-Rays Messing around with supercritical CO2
|
| https://m.youtube.com/c/AppliedScience/videos
|
| He does all sorts of random shit and it is absolutely wonderful
| Groxx wrote:
| Applied Science is _amazing_ , +1 highly recommended. Well,
| to both.
| myself248 wrote:
| For A/V stuff, I went looking for an understanding of how
| color works in video systems, and ran across this gem from
| Captain Disillusion:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTKP0Y9MVus
|
| His whole channel is great, though there's not a ton there,
| it makes sense given the staggering amount of work that goes
| into the visualizations of each one.
| a012 wrote:
| I watched a few videos from his channel and always
| amazed/wondered how can he has so many vintage items and deep
| knowledge of/around them. I really enjoy his presentation skill
| and sense of humour.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Love his channel! My favourite videos are the ones about
| dishwashers.
| garaetjjte wrote:
| CED saga for me.
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| Technology Connections is hands down one of my favorite Youtube
| channels.
|
| Another guy worth mentioning that tickles the brain cells in a
| similar way is Isaac Arthur: a guy that breaks down science
| fiction into science fact, and explores what we could actually
| do someday in the future, and pokes fun at the stuff that will
| probably never happen but has become familiar tropes anyways.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g
|
| If you want another down to earth (ahem) channel that also
| explores tech, there's Tech Ingredients who has done crazy
| things like build the ultimate (and certainly weirdest)
| speakers, his own epoxy, his own thermal paste, his own whiskey
| with his own still, his own compressorless fridge and AC, his
| own rocket motors....
|
| https://www.youtube.com/user/TechIngredients
| zem wrote:
| Isaac Arthur is almost certainly a pseudonym paying homage to
| Isaac Asimov and Arthur C Clarke
| anamexis wrote:
| Thanks, I wasn't aware of those two!
|
| Riffing on those, I can also recommend DIY Perks. He makes
| pretty stunning electronics projects.
| https://www.youtube.com/c/DIYPerks
| Laforet wrote:
| I might just come forward and recommend NighthawkInLight.
| He does not upload as frequently as some of the other
| channels mentioned here but his videos tend to have a much
| higher production value for some just as interesting topics
| of science and technology.
|
| https://youtube.com/c/Nighthawkinlight
| philwelch wrote:
| Blogspam for a 2019 YouTube video:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
| Tagbert wrote:
| I wish I could still get a toaster that let me toast one slice at
| a time. If making toast, I usually just want one slice. It is
| wasteful to have to heat up both sides for one slice of toast.
|
| I remember one model from a few decades ago where you could just
| put one slice in and push down one button to toast that. If you
| put in 2 slices, the other button would push both sides down to
| toast. I haven't seen that feature in a long time.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| Mine's a Dualit.
|
| It's repairable (it's held together with simple screws, and you
| can order all the parts), it has a mechanical timer, and a
| simple lever to raise/lower the toast. There's also a knob to
| switch between left slot/both slots. No electronics, no
| indicator lights.
|
| I think these things are targeted at commercial outlets
| (hotels, cafes and so on). I bought it because I imagined it
| would be ultra-reliable, and five years in I've had no
| problems. They cost about 3x as much as cheap toasters.
| Lio wrote:
| My Dualit is from 2004. It still looks and works like new.
|
| It's a design classic. 4 slots. A wonderfully boring device
| that just works with no fuss.
| maskaler wrote:
| Does it do crumpets?!
| maltalex wrote:
| Re-making these toasters is probably a great idea for a
| kickstarter.
| deeg wrote:
| Yeah, my question after reading this is why can't I buy a
| modern version of this toaster? Would it be too expensive? Just
| seems odd.
| Gigachad wrote:
| Because the current toasters work perfectly fine and are a
| tiny fraction of the complexity. Anyone who wants better
| toast than what the toaster makes will just butter and cook
| the bread on a grill.
| blibble wrote:
| there's a lot of clever stuff in there that would make modern
| regulators nervous
|
| suspect making it compliant with modern electrical standards
| would be cost prohibitive
| varelse wrote:
| Seems like a PID could do all this and more personally. I
| suspect someone kickstarts exactly that in short order and
| then I buy one down the road after it ends up in e-tail
| because I never got that PID espresso maker so no more
| kickstarters for me.
| jws wrote:
| But maybe redesign it so the coils can't be live even when it
| is off. Because you can't stop humans from using forks.
|
| I grew up with one of these and was going to get an old one and
| refurbish it, but I live with too many hairless apes that would
| stick a fork or knife in to retrieve their undersized bread.
| Maybe if I put on a polarized plug, and check all the outlets
| in the kitchen to make sure they are wired correctly...
| maltalex wrote:
| Of course. The original sunbeam probably could not have been
| even made or sold today due to safety standards.
| throwanem wrote:
| Sure it could. It'd just need a polarized, grounded plug
| with the ground strap tied to the body.
| smhenderson wrote:
| The author even mentions that in the article when he
| talks about purchasing used ones as gifts.
|
| _(Before giving them, I opened them up and replaced
| their aging power cords with modern grounded three-prong
| ones, as many of these predate even polarized plugs and
| are not remotely safe by modern electrocution prevention
| standards.)_
| loonster wrote:
| Just a polarized plug would do it. That would make it so
| the switch is before the elements and not after.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| The same YouTuber has a video guide on how to update the
| wiring to make it safe in the way you want. Complete with
| grounding the body: https://youtu.be/2vcdbtAca0Y
| rob74 wrote:
| I can contribute another simple example of a kitchen appliance
| that didn't necessarily get smarter: the cooking plate! Remember
| the good old cookers with rotary switches? Those actually had up
| to seven different stages of heating (see schematic here
| http://www.herd.josefscholz.de/7Takt/img16.gif)! While the new
| digital ones are... digital - i.e. they switch the plate on and
| off repeatedly to produce different amounts of heat, but that
| depends on the pot/pan/whatever you put on it to store the heat
| while the plate is off. So a definite step backward if you ask
| me...
| Gigachad wrote:
| The digital touch screen ones won because they are so much
| easier to clean. A current model induction stove is a
| completely flat sheet of glass. You spray some chemical on it
| and give it a wipe down and its done. No pulling knobs off,
| working between gaps, etc.
|
| And on the switching behavior, I believe that is more related
| to just how induction cooking works rather than the way you
| control it. The values on the control panel are not exact
| anyway, you are always going to have to get a feel for how they
| work for your setup.
|
| I moved from a house with an induction stove to a classic gas
| stove and its an absolute nightmare. Cooks slower and takes 50x
| the effort to clean.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| Not to mention the digital ones are more prone to failure.
| Gigachad wrote:
| Are they? Is this studied? I have never heard of one failing
| and know many people with them.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| by cooking plate I mean the cooking plates in the normally
| sold induction stovetop, in those of course the failure is
| generally not on the cooking plate but the stovetop itself
| but that doesn't matter, once the stovetop goes you can't
| use a plate because it's all one big integrated appliance.
|
| So anyway I bought a slightly above medium priced one a few
| years ago, and it has failed about 5 times. When we had the
| guy out to fix it he said that it was a common problem that
| the part where you have to push to start a particular plate
| cooking can fail to register a push anymore and as a
| general rule if one of the 'buttons' couldn't be pushed
| none of them could be pushed because after all they aren't
| really buttons.
|
| I asked why is it continually failing he said oh sometimes
| there is some underlying electrical issue, but I think we
| have everything fixed now.
|
| Anyway after the fifth breakdown in a couple years it has
| been going pretty good for a year now.
|
| Now of course since an induction stovetop is one big piece,
| there are fewer parts that can fail. So maybe there
| actually is a higher failure on analog stoves, but I
| remember every time I had a failure on my analog stoves it
| was only one piece that failed, and sometimes it was easy
| to make it work again, like a broken knob, or it was only a
| partial failure like that cooking plate doesn't get as hot
| as it used to. When my current stovetop fails, it is all
| failed.
|
| A case in point I bought a small portable two cooking plate
| analog stove at the same time I bought the more modern
| induction one. One of the cooking plates got broken some
| years back but the other still works. We also need it to
| make espresso as the pot is too light to register on the
| induction stovetop.
|
| on edit: must be tired, changed in case of point to a case
| in point.
| pxeger1 wrote:
| Shitty blogspam article that just copies the original video by
| Technology Connections
| sdoering wrote:
| It absolutely is. On the other hand at least it shows the
| original video. Something I just watched in awe. Stunned about
| the ingenuity of the toaster design.
| masklinn wrote:
| If you liked the video and didn't know about Technology
| Connections, I can only recommend (strongly) to go through
| the channel's archive: Alec mostly goes through old or
| somewhat intemporal stuff, so technical and editing chops
| aside the content really doesn't age, and I've yet to see a
| video from him that's not interesting nerdery.
| zem wrote:
| the original video had nothing to read. there is zero chance I
| would have watched it, so I am glad the article summarized it
| in text for me.
| foundart wrote:
| Sure but I imagine it has resulted in a lot of exposure for
| Technology Connections.
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| The person doing the work gets "exposure" while the
| copy/pasters get free ad revenue?
|
| Doesn't sound like a fair shake to me
| notriddle wrote:
| Technology Connections has a Patreon, mentioned at the end
| of every video.
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| I know, I've been a patreon of his for years.
|
| That doesn't change the fact that this website is milking
| his work for clicks
| [deleted]
| systemvoltage wrote:
| IMO The Verge, MKBHD, LTT, Snazzy Labs, etc are entertainment
| platforms, not tech reviewers. Often lacking conviction,
| criticism, strong opinions, technical know-how and ability to
| do the hardwork for objective comparisons. They spend more time
| polishing the video, studio neatness and thumbnails than
| informing the public.
|
| They're optimized for viewership and revenue.
| belval wrote:
| I understand your point but I think it's a bit of an unfair
| take. If you want good depth in your reviews there are a lot
| of smaller tech youtubers that do deeper analysis, but the
| issue is that most people simply won't watch a 45 minutes
| review of the Intel i7-12700k that actually goes in depth. On
| top of that financially they are incentivized to make ~15
| minutes videos because the 45 minutes one cost a lot more to
| make and brings in a similar amount.
|
| > They spend more time polishing the video, studio neatness
| and thumbnails than informing the public.
|
| To be clear I completely agree with you, but I think it's
| mostly because the public (or a majority of the public)
| simply don't care about being informed.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Good response, I have a bias for the small channels over
| big production houses. LTT actually does go deeper (provide
| data and benchmarks), but it's too overproduced for my
| taste.
| bserge wrote:
| Nobody should torture themselves with 45min of _video_
| about a processor.
|
| Most of the useful information is text and images.
|
| Anyone making a video about it should rethink their fucking
| life.
| jollybean wrote:
| There is definitely a market for the resurgence of some of high
| quality old-timey products, especially those with some novelty.
|
| Sunbeam should literally do a Kickstarter to get the marketing
| going.
| [deleted]
| gnicholas wrote:
| It would probably be easier for a new company to decide to do
| this than an existing company with bureaucratic cruft. And it's
| not like Sunbeam has any critical IP rights here, since the
| design is from many decades ago.
|
| My grandparents gave me one of these and I used it for a decade
| or so before it stopped working. I considered trying to fix it,
| but with little kids on the horizon, I was concerned about the
| safety issues (unlike new toasters, these old ones can
| electrocute you). If I'd known I could have had my old one
| retrofitted and made safer, as other oommenters have pointed
| out, I'd have done that instead. At least I got 50 bucks for it
| on ebay though!
| jollybean wrote:
| Yes, some ops are cruft, in which case new company could buy
| old company brand.
|
| The other problem is distribution.
|
| These things are about channel power, which is >50% of the
| story on both sides: manufacturing, distribution, sales,
| etc..
|
| 'The Product' is actually less important than the system in
| place that makes all of this work, at least at scale.
|
| Ideally, this would be a subdivision of a 'well run company'
| with operational resources and distribution power.
| pengaru wrote:
| > Sunbeam should literally do a Kickstarter to get the
| marketing going.
|
| Sunbeam products are now Chinesium trash, the brand was sold
| off long ago.
|
| At my last startup we learned this the hard way after buying a
| Sunbeam set of knives in a butcher block for the office
| kitchen. Every single knife was dull and serrated identically,
| despite presenting in the Amazon ad as a comprehensive set of
| knives.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| You can thank Chainsaw Al for that.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chainsaw_Al
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/obituaries/al-dunlap-
| dead...
| consp wrote:
| That wrap-sheet reads like he should have been in jail for
| ruining so many peoples lives. White-collar crime pays, but
| we all knew that already.
| pengaru wrote:
| It's not like "Chainsaw Al" inherited a pristine Sunbeam
| and ran it into the ground:
|
| "Allegheny's four principal divisions, including Sunbeam,
| went into decline through the late-1980s. Since Sunbeam-
| Oster was one of the most important divisions, responsible
| for nearly half of all sales, the stockholders were very
| concerned about the leadership. In 1986, the stockholders
| accused the Chairman and CEO, Robert Buckley of mis-
| appropriating funds.[10][11] Buckley's successor, Oliver
| Travers, downsized considerably and by 1988, the company
| was essentially just Sunbeam and Oster. The decline
| continued aided by the stock market crash of October 1987
| and Allegheny filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.[12] In the
| fall of 1989 an investment group called Japonica
| Partners[13] purchased the remains of Allegheny for $250
| million ($521.9 million today) in a hostile takeover.[14]
| The company was renamed Sunbeam-Oster Company, Inc. At this
| point the business was then divided into four divisions:
| Outdoor Products, Household Products, Specialty Products,
| and International Sales. The company headquarters were
| moved again from Pittsburgh to Providence, Rhode Island and
| then finally to Fort Lauderdale, Florida.[15] By late 1991,
| Sunbeam-Oster's sales had increased 7% enabling it to make
| the Fortune 500 list." [0]
|
| It sounds to me like he was brought in to be the axe man,
| and he obliged, while adding some fraudulent flair to the
| mix. One could argue the fraud was just a best-effort
| attempt to turn the sinking ship around, with flagrant
| disregard for the law.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Products#Growth
| quacked wrote:
| I've thought about this for a while. Imagine a line of "dumb"
| dishwashers, toasters, ovens, stoves, microwaves, etc., all
| well-designed and made with sturdy materials.
|
| Unfortunately, I think they'd cost 6-10x going rate as modern
| "smart" appliances, and also the market for them would be
| restricted to HN commenters.
| fghorow wrote:
| Heck, I'd settle for a mil-spec umbrella. One that you don't
| have to replace every season!!!
|
| But they don't seem to exist AFAICT...
| pmyteh wrote:
| A trip to https://www.james-smith.co.uk/ will sort you out,
| next time you're in London. For a suitable price,
| naturally!
| loonster wrote:
| The Weatherman Stick (or Golf) Umbrella looks like it might
| be BIFL. Its non collapsing, so less moving parts and has
| an aggressive canopy that claims it can withstand 55mph
| winds. I have never used it, just going on looks of how its
| constructed. At $69, I would hope its not a throwaway type.
|
| https://www.weathermanumbrella.com/
| userbinator wrote:
| Buying an old one and restoring it would probably be a better
| idea.
|
| All my white goods are several decades old and still work
| well with occasional periodic maintenance. That's the other
| thing: back then, they were designed to last with
| maintenance; now, they're designed to be "maintenance-free"
| until they break completely and in a very cost-prohibitive-
| to-repair way.
| Digit-Al wrote:
| I hope I don't curse myself saying this, but I bought an AEG
| washing machine over 9 years ago and so far have never had a
| problem with it.
| foundart wrote:
| I have wondered about this. It would likely start out very
| expensive but could get cheaper over time if it got any
| traction. Would it ever be as cheap as the current crop?
| Unlikely.
|
| The initial market would definitely be limited to those with
| an appreciation for the concept and the funds to support it
| but it seems possible that after establishing a niche brand
| known for quality and reliability you could expand beyond the
| early adopters.
|
| It would be an expensive experiment though.
| botswana99 wrote:
| I have wondered too. I am on on, like, my fourth toaster.
| They work for a few years then fail in some non fixable way.
| So I toss and order another from Amazon. Think of all the
| material waste. Not very eco-friendly. But it's another 30
| bucks and comes next day ...
|
| Is there a market for 'buy it for life' toaster. The question
| is will people pay 2-4X as much as cheap china toaster? Would
| you pay $150 for a lifetime toaster with replaceable parts?
| Would you pay $200? Or just 20% more than the next model?
| Would the retro angle get people to do it? Would the eco
| angle? Or the 'right to repair' angle? Or is it just easier
| to toss the thing and get another from our friends in
| Seattle?
| askvictor wrote:
| Looks like Dualit toasters fit that bill somewhat. But a
| set of replacement elements cost several times more than a
| cheap toaster.
| pmyteh wrote:
| You're not likely to need a complete set: they can be
| replaced individually.
|
| Mine is from about 1987, and I got it about 10 years ago
| on eBay. I've replaced one element card, as a result of a
| previous owner's dodgy repair causing arcing that
| eventually burned out a connector. The others look very
| old and are still fully functional.
|
| Having said that, I understand the clockwork timers also
| fail from time to time, and they aren't especially cheap.
| And the toast, while very good and continuously
| adjustable in hue, isn't quite magnificent.
| convolvatron wrote:
| I got a really lovely chrome single slice from...i think
| the 30s or 40s on ebay for $30.
|
| work required: completely dismantle.
|
| soak return coil spring assembly in mineral oil.
|
| make a new carbon contact by cutting down a motor brush
|
| replace cord with new cloth 3 conductor (plastic didn't
| look right)
|
| 10 years later and still works perfectly.
| rsynnott wrote:
| In washing machine land, Miele and a few others make these.
| They are indeed very, very expensive. Mind you, adjusted for
| inflation, so were the old ones; there has never really been
| an era of cheap top-quality appliances.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| But are they cheaper per year of service life?
| pmyteh wrote:
| Maybe. A standard Miele washing machine costs about
| PS900, while a decent (but less durable) machine might
| cost half that or a bit less. Having done endless
| (eventually futile) repairs on an older washer that kept
| falling over out of warranty, I'd day this one at least
| _looks_ like a better price per year 's washing.
| showerst wrote:
| You also have to account for the "pain in the neck"
| factor. A washing machine isn't a toaster, it's heavy and
| hard to move, and annoying to wait on a repair person or
| replacement.
| varelse wrote:
| Maybe less dumb and more easily repairable? Microcontrollers
| are great, just make a standardized component for all the
| things that can be unplugged and replaced and have at it. Why
| must we late-stage capitalism everything?
| Gigachad wrote:
| I don't think that dishwashers and related appliances are
| fragile or that they are too hard to repair. It's just that
| the brand new manufacturing cost has become so insanely
| cheap while human labor has become extremely expensive. So
| when the dishwasher finally craps out, it just isn't worth
| paying someone to crack it open and fix it.
|
| Hobbyists are able to fix almost anything when they do it
| for fun in their free time as long as DRM isn't involved.
| It just isn't something that scales or can make a profit.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| Washing machines were one of the first applications for
| microcontrollers.
|
| If you have an electric motor that's supposed to speed up,
| slow down, reverse, spin fast etc., all on a schedule, it's a
| no-brainer (pun intended). It's usually the pump that fails,
| but the controller-cards often fail too. Pumps and controller
| cards are, of course, outrageously expensive.
|
| These things are _supposed_ to fail. Back in the day, they
| were much more reliable. I don 't think it's "smart" tech
| that has made them less reliable; I think they've optimised
| their designs over the years, so that they nowadays fail just
| after the warranty ends.
|
| So what I want is kitchen equipment that is designed to last.
| For example, I bet they could build a washing machine that
| works perfectly for 30 years, for under PS1,000. If they
| wanted to. It might not have 24 different program settings,
| but I only ever use one setting.
|
| Yeah, reliable equipment probably is a bit of a nerdy
| preoccupation; but you'd think at least someone would have a
| product to appeal to that niche. But nobody seems to want to
| compete on reliability. That makes me wonder if there is a
| cartel at work.
|
| [Edit] I actually don't mean to include Bosch in my comments
| about manufacturers; Bosch equipment I've had has been more
| reliable than other brands. But they still fail and need
| repairs much too often.
|
| Re. 30 years: that's how long my mother's Hoover twin-tub
| continued to provide service.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| "Yeah, reliable equipment probably is a bit of a nerdy
| preoccupation"
|
| Efficient market hypothesis summed up in once sentence
| jfim wrote:
| There are some companies that do build long lasting
| appliances. For example, one can buy a Speed Queen washing
| machine for home, and they're supposed to be comparable
| with their commercial laundromat offerings. They're also
| 2-4x the price of a similar washing machine.
|
| The big problem is that on the consumer side, it's pretty
| much impossible to evaluate durability of goods. Is the $80
| toaster much more durable and better built than the $40
| one, or is it just a "premium" offering that has the same
| internals but with a fancier appearance.
| Gigachad wrote:
| And then is it even worth thinking about which toaster
| will last 50 years vs 10 years when the price may as well
| be free for how cheap they are.
| johnohara wrote:
| Sunbeam is currently owned by Newell Brands (Carl Icahn) whose
| other brands include Coleman, Parker Pen, Calphalon, and First
| Alert.
|
| They certainly don't need the money to kickstart a campaign,
| but it _would be interesting_ to know if Kickstarter would
| entertain the idea of a subsidiary of Newell Brands running a
| marketing campaign on its platform.
|
| Are there other large corporate brands that you know of that
| have launched marketing campaigns on KS?
| jsnell wrote:
| Yes. At least for boardgames, sub-brands of billion dollar
| companies regularly run Kickstarters.
|
| Why would KS have any problem with that?
| johnohara wrote:
| Not sure.
|
| But I've always had the impression Kickstarter was about
| small business entrepreneurs/solopreneurs unable or
| unwilling to raise capital through traditional means.
|
| Per the KS Mission Statement, "It's where creators share
| new visions for creative work with the communities that
| will come together to fund them."
|
| It just seems unusual to me that a multi-billion dollar
| global corporation would decide after 60+ years to go back
| to building high-quality versions of their products,
| perhaps considering it to be a "new vision for creative
| work," not really need a community to come together to fund
| it, and not have KS pause to think about whether it fits
| with their mission.
| jollybean wrote:
| Yes, I mean Kickstarter as a marketing tool to tap into to an
| engaged and authentic starter market.
| plebianRube wrote:
| It would be great to have something last so long.
|
| But then the marketing team wouldn't be able to come up with a
| new redesign every 6 months.
|
| And there would be less overall profit than building cheaper
| versions to fill our landfills with.
|
| Which unfortunately means that this won't be realistic.
| sbierwagen wrote:
| Thus the Kickstarter model. Pre-sell 500, do a total
| production run of a 1000, and when they're gone they're gone.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-11-25 23:01 UTC)