[HN Gopher] Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful
        
       Author : dynm
       Score  : 602 points
       Date   : 2021-11-25 13:11 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dynomight.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dynomight.net)
        
       | capnahab wrote:
       | I am thankful haemoglobin can carry so much oxygen without the
       | iron in it turning to rust. Otherwise we wouldnt be able to
       | breathe. Well described here,and i have no affiliation
       | https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102010332
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | "it's surely better than the light of consciousness vanishing
       | entirely when the sun eats the Earth in 7.5 billion years, no?"
       | 
       | The Earth will lose its oxygen in about 1 billion years and
       | undergo runaway warming in about 1.4 billion years. By the time
       | the Earth is eaten by the Sun (if it is; mass loss by the Sun
       | might prevent this), the Earth will have been sterilized for
       | longer than it has currently existed.
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | This is assuming that humanity or our successor won't do any
         | stellar engineering or starlifting, or moving the Earth for
         | that matter.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | Also, thankful that (despite the timescale for O(1) changes to
         | O2 in the atmosphere being ~10 million years) not once since
         | the Precambrian did O2 levels fall low enough to wipe out
         | vertebrate life.
         | 
         | Although I'm not sure it's really correct to be thankful for
         | effects of observer selection bias.
        
           | ask_b123 wrote:
           | I think it is perfectly correct. It is a great thing to be an
           | observer and I'm thankful I can be subject to the effects of
           | observer selection bias. :)
        
       | esarbe wrote:
       | Hot shower in the morning.
       | 
       | Think about it; how many of your ancestors did have the option of
       | having a _hot_ _shower_ _every_ _morning_. Think about the labor
       | involved!
        
       | maceurt wrote:
       | Not going to argue my point or bring up any real evidence because
       | this guy didn't either, but Hunter Gatherers absolutely lived
       | better lives than we do now and the amount of human beings who
       | die to homocide or suicide is higher now than during that time
       | period. This time period is hell, just look at suicide rates and
       | mental illness rates. No other point in human existence has our
       | life held as little meaning as it does now. And our biggest
       | killer in the West happens to be a disease that has some of the
       | worst comorbidites. Most people in the west are living their life
       | in a inflammation, sleep deprived, vitamin defficient, hormonally
       | disrupted brain fog.
       | 
       | I also don't think people realize how the suffering of lack of
       | pleasure and of short excruciating pain like being eaten, is
       | infinitely better than a lifetime of stress, deppression, and
       | nihilism. Slavery to pleasure is the worst hell, and most of us
       | are enslaved in one way or another.
       | 
       | p.s. False positivity doesn't do shit for your brain, it can
       | actually cause harm. Even if it could do something good, you are
       | basically just brainwashing yourself to have a less truthful
       | understanding of the world. Joy is self-evident for Joyful people
       | and doesn't require deceiptful mantras.
        
       | Mary-Jane wrote:
       | > Due to some [reason], an overpopulation calamity hasn't yet
       | happened and we might coincidentally stabilize at a level that's
       | somewhat close to what maximizes average utility...
       | 
       | Given the birthrate trends in developed countries, it's more
       | likely the population will peak and then decline as prosperity
       | spreads. The cause isn't hard to discern - child labor laws -
       | they turn children from potential assets into guaranteed
       | liabilities.
       | 
       | A declining population will be a bad thing; our modern way of
       | life is built on systems that depend on growth (from Wall Street
       | to our tax structures to the various Social Security safety nets
       | countries have in place); take that away and we will have real
       | problems.
        
       | ldehaan wrote:
       | I'm thankful for my kiddos, single dad full time for years and
       | after the alternative i wouldn't have it any other way. I've got
       | a shock of white now because of them though :D I couldn't be more
       | thankful. And I'm gonna stay single until they grow up so they
       | know beyond a doubt how important they are.
        
       | hunter2_ wrote:
       | If we have something like #2, would that debunk the idea that
       | backing things up exclusively on magnetic media (HDD, tape) is
       | sufficient for restoration? I've never found optical media to be
       | particularly reliable, but it might be a decent hedge against a
       | huge magnetic event.
        
         | mrleinad wrote:
         | I know optical media deteriorates over time, so in order to be
         | a hedge, you would need to record it over and over again
         | periodically, preparing for an event you are not sure when it
         | might come. Poses a problem with waste and needed resources.
        
       | supernova87a wrote:
       | There is really something to the idea that despite the daily news
       | and political doomsaying that goes on every day, it's hard for
       | people to remember or celebrate the long progression that we've
       | experienced towards living in the most peaceful, materially
       | prosperous, and positive trajectory time in the history of
       | humanity.
       | 
       | (I think there was a podcast on Hidden Brain about this. Also
       | video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU).
       | 
       | It's really good to periodically think about how much we benefit
       | from, say, the miracles of air conditioning, available
       | infrastructure and cheap travel beyond your town, clean water and
       | air, medicine, vaccines, public health -- and reset what you're
       | grateful for. And stop making every little transgression of
       | modern life feel like a disastrous setback.
       | 
       | But of course it's very unfashionable to point this out when
       | someone's <xyz> cause is being neglected, or is in the news and
       | everyone is outraged. Of course when you make such comparisons
       | you get hissed out of a room for being so callous, because
       | anyone's relative suffering is supposed to be treated with utmost
       | respect. And the short, acute, headline making problems are
       | always louder than the long progression of gradual improvement.
       | 
       | But taken in perspective, by intelligent people who can discuss
       | such things, we've really reached the age of 1% problems. (which
       | are being exposed because our huge disastrous human-generated
       | conflicts, etc. are decreased compared to 100 years ago). Health,
       | social issues, etc. are such luxuries to have problems about now
       | (and glad to have them discovered and debated), but remember how
       | wonderful a time we live in. We aren't generally dying of
       | terrible diseases during childhood, etc. or because of world
       | wars. More people are living longer to experience the wonders of
       | humanity than ever before. Although, things like climate change
       | we'd better allow to rise to the top of our list of problems,
       | soon...
       | 
       | Anyway, definitely very thankful for all these things, and all
       | the daily unsung people who make our humanity's progress
       | possible.
        
         | notfed wrote:
         | Related: a TED talk by Steven Pinker about his analysis on
         | whether the world is getting better or worse:
         | https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_is_the_world_getting...
        
           | uwagar wrote:
           | didnt he goto that TED talk on epstein's jet? ;)
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | The bigger issue is that historians and sociologists tend
             | to complain each time he makes sweeping claims about their
             | area of expertise.
        
       | lisper wrote:
       | I've done a lot of traveling in less developed countries. That
       | has taught me to be thankful for the fact that I live in a house
       | with heat and air conditioning, and hot and cold running water
       | that I can drink without getting sick. Many people in developed
       | countries (especially the U.S.) take these things for granted,
       | but in many parts of the world these are things people only dream
       | of.
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | That rotten milk is edible and quite tasty AND that heated up
       | again it becomes semi-fluid and even more delicious than before.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | riazrizvi wrote:
       | Thank you, a lovely list.
       | 
       | 7, 23, 24 were driven by the common unusual political occurrence
       | of fair economic opportunity. These rare times where a balance of
       | power occurs, by special circumstances, between the former
       | autocratic rulers and everyone else.
       | 
       | In Britain (7), domestic Royal monopolies were abolished etc
       | creating an economic and legal environment where entrepreneurs
       | would be rewarded. So people started investing their very
       | expensive free time tinkering because it might lead to profit.
       | 
       | Ancient Greece (23) developed the Solonian Constitution which
       | similarly protected the property rights of 'citizens' like never
       | before, so Athens became a cultural center of tinkerers,
       | hustlers, thought leaders, influencers etc, and the ideas are
       | what we still have today. Because unlike with Ancient Phoenicia,
       | the Greeks wrote on clay, not on perishable papyrus.
       | 
       | (24) Obviously the US Constitution managed to establish unusual
       | property rights for its European male citizens, and again we see
       | hustlers, thought leaders, influencers etc, because their efforts
       | are far more likely to be rewarded. But this time we see what
       | this political environment looks like close up and we see regular
       | people's bright ideas materialize in society because the law
       | protects them.
       | 
       | I am thankful that we still today, I mean 11/26/2021 today, still
       | maintain the balance of power that enables our egalitarian laws
       | to stand, and hope that some new technology won't kill that
       | balance.
        
         | jaclaz wrote:
         | To be picky, the timescale/locations of #23 is way off:
         | 
         | Socrates (Athens= 470-399 BC
         | 
         | Plato (Athens) 423-348 BC
         | 
         | Aristotles (Athens) 384-322 BC
         | 
         | Archimedes (of Syracuse) some 2-3 centuries later 287-212 BC
         | 
         | Euclid (of Alexandria) was active in Alexandria around 300-270
         | BC
         | 
         | Hyppocrates (of Kos) 470-360 BC
         | 
         | Pytagoras (of Samos) 570-495 BC
         | 
         | Thucydides (Athens) 460-400 BC
         | 
         | Herodotus (of Halicarnassus) 484-425 BC
         | 
         | Aesop (?) 620-564 BC
         | 
         | Solon (Athens) 630-570 BC
         | 
         | Pericles (Athens) 495-429 BC
         | 
         | Aristophanes (Athens) 446-386 BC
         | 
         | Sophocles (Athens) 497-406
         | 
         | the:
         | 
         | >That some unknown miracle blend of circumstances happened to
         | arrive in Athens in 500 BC leading a tiny city of 250k people
         | to produce Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Euclid,
         | Hippocrates, Pythagoras, Thucydides, Herodotus, Aesop, Solon,
         | Pericles, Aristophanes, and Sophocles, and that it might be
         | possible to intentionally recreate such conditions today around
         | the world and spur incredible human flourishing, and why aren't
         | we working on this?
         | 
         | is more accurately something _like_ :
         | 
         | In the course of several centuries over a vast territory
         | comprising almost all inhabited mediterranean countries some
         | 10-15 people excelled in their fields and many of them happened
         | to live in the main city (and cultural capital) of the area.
         | 
         | Sounds a lot less a miracle, between 630 and 300 BC is three
         | centuries.
        
           | mistermann wrote:
           | > is more accurately something like:
           | 
           | > In the course of several centuries over a vast territory
           | comprising almost all inhabited mediterranean countries some
           | 10-15 people excelled in their fields and many of them
           | happened to live in the main city (and cultural capital) of
           | the area.
           | 
           | Your restatement excluded what I think is the most
           | interesting part:
           | 
           | >> and that it might be possible to intentionally recreate
           | such conditions today around the world and spur incredible
           | human flourishing, _and why aren't we working on this_?
           | 
           | "Why aren't we working on this" seems like a very good
           | question, one that you don't hear very often - "Why don't we
           | _even encounter_ these sorts of questions more often? " might
           | be an interesting sibling question.
        
             | jaclaz wrote:
             | Because recreating _such conditions_ isn 't possible,
             | basically because _such conditions_ never existed and the
             | idilliac setup the article seems to describe never
             | happened.
             | 
             | The article seemingly conveys (at least to me) the idea
             | that "by miracle" all those famous philosophers, writers
             | and mathematicians were in the same place at the same time
             | (and possibly had coffee or dinner together), this simply
             | never happened.
             | 
             | So, if the idea is about creating brand new conditions
             | (which ones?) capable to create a city/location where -
             | over three centuries - a handful of people, excelling in
             | their field lived, this has already been done, let's say
             | Rome 200 BC - 100 AD, London 1600-1900, i.e. more or less
             | the capitals (administrative and/or cultural) of large
             | empires that lasted several centuries.
        
               | mistermann wrote:
               | My interpretation of the intended meaning[1] of the
               | author was to attempt to reproduce ~ _conditions
               | conducive to producing this sort of effect_.
               | 
               | If you reconsider the idea under this reframing, does it
               | seem like more of a reasonable, "maybe worth a try"-class
               | idea?
               | 
               | [1] where "such conditions" ~= "of the kind, character,
               | quality, or extent"
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | What about saying that such conditions exists right now in
             | contemporary world. We have great amount of thinkers and
             | scientists and technologists and populists and cult
             | leaders.
             | 
             | All of them producing and moving world forward. It is
             | crowded competition, actually.
        
               | notahacker wrote:
               | Yep, the cynic in me thinks that actually creating the
               | conditions where a dozen people's speculation on stuff
               | dominates discourse for a couple of millenia like the
               | Greek philosophers is less about the quality of
               | speculation, and more about ensuring that not much else
               | of note is written down...
        
               | mistermann wrote:
               | I wonder if it would be possible for these people and
               | others to produce in a more collaborative manner, perhaps
               | with a shared roadmap, strategy, etc. To me, it seems at
               | least plausible, what's your take?
        
           | aduitsis wrote:
           | That today, thousands of years later, we have managed to
           | retain what those people said or wrote is also a very good
           | reason to be thankful.
        
           | lr4444lr wrote:
           | Plus, Archimedes not only was from Syracuse (Italy) but
           | flourished under a complete (even if benevolent) monarch.
        
           | pratik661 wrote:
           | Also, the capital of a major economic/military power will
           | usually attract the ambitious people from the surrounding
           | regions. Its equivalent to saying "wow, so many famous actors
           | lived in Hollywood!"
        
           | lnxg33k1 wrote:
           | And Aristippus the inventor of capitalism? :D Or Antisthenes
           | the one I use to see how the mental issues were valued in the
           | past? :D
        
           | Lamad123 wrote:
           | Some of those haven't been reported to sit foot or have much
           | to do with Athens!! At least Archimedes and Pythagoras.. Even
           | Aristotle was a foreigner to Athens, although he learned a
           | lot from his Athenian counterparts! Herodotus wasn't Athenian
           | either!!
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | (7) was driven by the invention of patent law. Expressly royal
         | monopolies on inventing stuff.
         | 
         | (23) is because it's not independent random events. First,
         | Plato literally taught Aristotle and was taught by Socrates.
         | Second, Athens was the capital of an empire (okay, technically
         | a league) so of course the best and brightest descended on
         | Athens.
         | 
         | So, literally like Hollywood attracting actors or SV attracting
         | startups, it's a self-perpetuating cycle.
        
         | matbatt38 wrote:
         | Also #23 is mostly based on slavery. It's easier to have smart
         | elite when nobody really works
        
           | riazrizvi wrote:
           | Slavery was widespread.
        
       | blackbear_ wrote:
       | I actually wondered why the industrial revolution didn't happen
       | in China, great to see one possible explanation menioned in the
       | article [1].
       | 
       | Does anybody know other theories about this?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2017/03/book3.htm
        
         | _hao wrote:
         | There's a very good book that goes into it (and other things)
         | by Ian Morris -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_West_Rules%E2%80%94For...
        
         | andi999 wrote:
         | Personal opinion: same reason why it didn't take off in ancient
         | Greece (steam engine was invented back then) , no shortage of
         | cheap labor.
        
           | JackFr wrote:
           | There's an argument to be made that the Black Death broke
           | Europe (or especially Britain) out of a local minimum, by
           | killing off labor. This reduced the necessary rate of return
           | to physical capital and innovation. (Why invest in an iron
           | plow, when you can just set more serfs to the task with
           | wooden ones?) and ultimately this planted the seeds of the
           | industrial revolution.
        
           | rrss wrote:
           | though Hero's engine is _a_ steam engine, it is practically
           | useless as anything besides a curiosity and certainly could
           | not have powered an industrial revolution
        
             | andi999 wrote:
             | Yes, but I am confident if there would have been demand,
             | they would have improved on it. It can open temple doors so
             | I do not think it is too far away from a useful machine.
        
         | versale wrote:
         | This is clearly an idealistic approach. A materialistic view is
         | better explained in Fernand Braudel's "Civilization and
         | Capitalism, 15th-18th Century".
        
         | lenkite wrote:
         | Same reason it didn't happen in the Gupta Empire in India
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | I'd recommend guns germs and steel by Diamond if you're
         | interested in such thoughts. He doesn't cover china, but the
         | book is basically about this topic. Nice easy read, recommended
         | if you've got time to kill over the holidays.
        
         | mwcampbell wrote:
         | I assume the intent of that item is to be thankful that the
         | industrial revolution happened at all, not that it happened in
         | England specifically.
        
         | nine_zeros wrote:
         | Armchair philosopher - From my reading, it appears that the
         | corporation structure really took stronghold in Europe, giving
         | huge incentives to tinkers and risk takers.
         | 
         | That, and the collapse of Dutch East India outposts to British
         | East India company opened up access to new trade. Resources
         | from the new world also jumpstarted the process. It was the
         | perfect combo of corporate incentives and unrestricted access
         | to global resources that propelled people to wealthier lives
         | and thus, higher level of productivity (you can spend years
         | researching on steam engines if you don't have to spend your
         | life farming). This is exactly the state of America since after
         | WW2, if you were to compare.
         | 
         | In comparison, China was not handed any colonies, lacked the
         | corporation structure and was caught up in dynastic infighting.
         | There was no new world to extract resources from and almost
         | certainly wasn't united the way it is today.
         | 
         | No systemic incentive structure and inability to access global
         | resources left people in poverty or produced little in the way
         | of innovation.
        
       | makach wrote:
       | Well that article made wonders with my preexisting depression
        
         | cmehdy wrote:
         | If you are receptive to lists of gratitude, it is worth noting
         | that one of the many tools of cognitive-behavioural therapy
         | (CBT) is to try to keep a journal of everyday gratitudes[0]
         | (something like "write 3 a day in a journal" works, but other
         | things like open prompts about "what are you grateful for this
         | week?" can also work). Plenty of other examples out there[1]
         | can help too.
         | 
         | Not everybody will enjoy doing that or benefit from it, but CBT
         | overall is proving itself to be very valuable for people
         | suffering from clinical depression, and if that tool from the
         | toolbox doesn't resonate with someone it's always possible to
         | look at other tools[2] too.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_gratitude_...
         | 
         | [1] https://positivepsychology.com/gratitude-journal-pdf/
         | 
         | [2] https://www.therapistaid.com/index.php/tools/cbt/none
        
       | arduinomancer wrote:
       | #5 is actually pretty amazing if you think about it
       | 
       | If zero-calorie sweeteners didn't exist I feel like we would view
       | discovering one as a holy grail/miracle drug
       | 
       | I bet a ton of obesity has been prevented just due to diet soda
       | 
       | Imagine if the same thing existed for carbs
        
         | tejohnso wrote:
         | I wonder why #5 singles out aspartame though.
        
           | sm4rk0 wrote:
           | That's really weird. I'm not thankful for aspartame or other
           | sweeteners, and even less thankful for corrupt food agencies
           | approving them. Refined sugars aren't healthy, but aspartame
           | isn't a solution. In my household, a kilogram of sugar lasts
           | for months if not a year. Yes, we do buy food with added
           | sugar, but always avoid artificial sweeteners, except when
           | they are unavoidable in drugs or food supplements. I'm 192cm
           | 75kg in early 40s and just occasionally ride a bike or take a
           | walk.
           | 
           | #5 is like: I'm thankful that you can smoke a cigarette and
           | not die immediatelly of it.
        
             | arduinomancer wrote:
             | What science are you basing that on?
        
               | bricss wrote:
               | > When your body processes aspartame, part of it is
               | broken down into methanol.
        
       | scubakid wrote:
       | Not about to start being grateful for aspartame, sorry
       | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
         | that_guy_iain wrote:
         | Why, what has it done to you?
        
           | scubakid wrote:
           | Nothing concrete I can point to of course, I'm just wary of
           | being actively grateful for it... it seems to me that some of
           | the subtle and/or knock-on effects may not be fully
           | understood, and there could also be better alternative
           | sweeteners that didn't make this list.
        
             | that_guy_iain wrote:
             | > it seems to me that some of the subtle and/or knock-on
             | effects may not be fully understood
             | 
             | There have probably had hundreds of studies done by people
             | who were actively trying to prove something and wrote that
             | they fully believe that there are bad side effects yet not
             | one states they proved something.
        
               | cheese_it wrote:
               | I've found that aspartame gives me really bad insomnia.
               | Almost every time this happens I'll go through what I ate
               | that day and it's always something containing aspartame
               | that was not in my normal diet. This is how I learned
               | that those flavor packets that are mixed into water
               | bottles and some zero-calorie flavorings used at coffee
               | shops contain aspartame.
        
       | wintermutestwin wrote:
       | I'll take this space to mention two simple life changing
       | gratitude practices that I have habitualized:
       | 
       | 1. Every morning, before I allow myself to look at
       | email/news/etc, I think of three things that I am grateful for.
       | 
       | 2. Every night at bedtime, my partner and I tell each other three
       | things we are grateful for about each other and one thing that we
       | are grateful for about ourselves.
       | 
       | I find that bookending my days with gratitude like this makes it
       | easier to live each day in a state of thankfulness.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Being grateful is good! But being jealous, angry, bitter etc.
         | are also valid emotions, not sins. (I don't believe in Dante's
         | Inferno etc.). Those emotions are signal that something needs
         | fixing. Sometimes it can be fixed in a second if it's a silly
         | thing. Sometime it can take a lifetime, if it's grieving for
         | example.
        
         | uwagar wrote:
         | i hope ur life gets less boring and more adventurous ;)
        
         | pkdpic wrote:
         | I love this and Im going to try this with my partner. Thank you
         | for sharing it :^)
        
         | k8sToGo wrote:
         | To me this sounds too much like the daily scrum meetings or
         | stand ups where you have to come up with something just so you
         | can say something and, in this case, go to bed.
         | 
         | But I only mean this as a joke. I think it is great to have
         | "rituals" that help us look and appreciate more stuff what we
         | have already or where we are and where we came from.
        
           | cgriswald wrote:
           | Maintaining sleep hygiene takes precedence to me over
           | essentially anything else and coming up with four things
           | before sounds anxiety-inducing. We do this type of thing
           | before our evening meal, instead. For me, anyway, this is
           | much lower stakes and so there is less anxiety. Which results
           | in it just sort of flowing out--especially after doing it for
           | awhile--but not in an 'autopilot' sort of way.
        
             | wintermutestwin wrote:
             | Part of the point of our bed time ritual is to look for and
             | accumulate "gratefuls" throughout the day. In this way, I
             | am training my pattern recognizing CPU to spot the
             | positives rather than the negatives that it tends to focus
             | on.
        
           | AlexCoventry wrote:
           | "I'm thankful for the way the adversity you gratuitously
           | create in my life advances my spiritual practice. Sweet
           | dreams!"
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I really like that list!
       | 
       | Thanks!
        
       | TwinProduction wrote:
       | Hahaha this article is a lot more meta than I thought it would be
       | on a Thanksgiving morning.
       | 
       | Great article nometheless; it seems like we just got really,
       | really lucky.
        
       | huttongrabiel wrote:
       | There's an interesting paper that touches on #2. From Assistant
       | Professor Sangeetha Abdu Jyothi. Definitely worth a read.
       | 
       | https://www.ics.uci.edu/~sabdujyo/papers/sigcomm21-cme.pdf
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | I think it's important to be thankful only about stuff that are
       | not descriptive but took some agency to make happen. To keep
       | rehashing that we should be thankful that sun exists or that
       | earth has a magnetic core to shield us against the nasty solar
       | flares, etc. fall in the first category and devalue the idea of
       | thankfulness. Because you wouldn't be here to talk about it
       | otherwise.
       | 
       | So let's show thankfulness for things that took agency to make
       | happen so we learn to do more of those things.
        
       | achillesheels wrote:
       | _That even though we evolved as ruthless replication machines,
       | we've somehow risen out of the muck and we currently find
       | ourselves running cultural software that's way out of sync with
       | what game theory would dictate, and perhaps we can seize the
       | moment and build a civilization that can tame the brutal dynamics
       | that created us._
       | 
       | This. Our scientific understanding on how humans cooperate to not
       | simply feed each other, but prosper with endless creative
       | opportunities of cultivation, demonstrates we are at a tipping
       | point to potentially permanently limit the recurrence of violence
       | inter-generationally. Think of it as reversing unjust hereditary
       | trauma. So many humans being born now see a path to their own
       | prosperity, this century will be remembered as leaving the Planet
       | of the Apes behind.
        
         | juanani wrote:
         | I am grateful for the ignorant. I think we are heavily misguied
         | yowards violence being the problem and not violence lead by
         | greed. Greed leads to violence. We are just conditioned/tamed
         | to believe what gets repeated 24/7 on the screen. I am grateful
         | for the plug. I see we wont have a choice to unplug from our
         | Utopic visionaries soon enough.
        
         | __s wrote:
         | ??
         | 
         | I feel quite the opposite. Game theory helps understand why
         | people act, & it let's you reverse engineer what they really
         | value, as opposed to what they claim to value
         | 
         | It's like saying physics has been conquered because airplanes
         | should fall out of the sky. No, your existing notion was
         | flawed, but reality didn't change
         | 
         | People don't act towards incentives because of game theory,
         | it's that game theory models their incentives. If you're acting
         | differently, it means you've built a different incentive system
         | 
         | This is important because it means game theory can be used to
         | construct incentives to guide corporate behavior (ie we can
         | avoid tragedy of the commons by forcing externalities to be
         | accounted for, rather than left for the people), but pleas that
         | corporations will act for the incentive of moral goodness is
         | only a method to fool public debate into letting the tragedy go
         | on. Because it's in the corporate interest to not pay for their
         | externalities
         | 
         | Maybe we're getting at the same thing, & I'm just picking up
         | too much of a "shed thy mathematical yolk" vibe
        
       | wholinator2 wrote:
       | Im thankful for the miracle of modern medicine which has allowed
       | my mother to see so much more of my life than otherwise would've
       | been possible. And though there are many bad things that have led
       | to the situation, the good things still exist also. The extension
       | of the human life may seem strange or counterintuitively painful
       | at the large scale but for the individual human/family is the
       | most important thing about our modern existence.
        
       | butwhywhyoh wrote:
       | I can't tell if this article is tongue-in-cheek or not. These are
       | all just excruciatingly detailed versions of "I'm thankful the
       | human species came out on the positive side of a lot of dice
       | rolls".
       | 
       | Just say you're happy to be alive and move on.
        
       | lnxg33k1 wrote:
       | I'm grateful to have been born in the good part of the world
       | which allows me to be grateful that we're allowed to sustain our
       | lifestyles thanks to the exploitation of others, and I'm not the
       | exploited one
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | Yaay! Me too. Wait.. :/
        
       | pydry wrote:
       | >That even though the turn humans made from hunter-gatherer bands
       | into agriculture pretty clearly made life worse, it eventually
       | led to the industrial revolution
       | 
       | Which also made life worse to begin with. Without the enclosure
       | movement depriving peasants of their land and pushing them to
       | work in the factories in horrendous conditions for pitiful pay it
       | likely wouldnt have happened.
       | 
       | Though I'm pretty thankful for the workers' movement that
       | followed that led to innovations like the weekend and
       | criminalization of child labor.
        
         | koheripbal wrote:
         | Hunter gatherers routinely starved to death, and had violent
         | confrontations with other tribes. This is evidenced by the
         | different propagation of Y chromosomes vs mitochondrial DNA, as
         | well as other evidence.
         | 
         | It was not better. It was just different, and ultimately less
         | safe than living in agricultural communities.
         | 
         | The unibomber's manifesto goes into a lot of detail on the
         | merits of nativeist life, and many modern anarchists subscribe
         | to this philosophy and co-opt it into a neo-socialist dogma,
         | but it is entirely without scientific merit.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | I'm thankful that I was born in the late 20th century, in a
         | country where working in a factory paid well, farming isn't
         | done with slave labor, where wars are limited (unless you live
         | where the war is) and my middle class standard of living and
         | lifespan would be the envy of kings in the not so distant past.
         | It's an amazing time to be alive, and so easy to see the
         | negative. The truth is, for many of us, we're living a life
         | that our ancestors couldn't imagine. Let's keep striving to
         | make life better on earth for everyone.
        
         | okr wrote:
         | I would like to see evidence, that people were pushed into the
         | factories. I was under the impression, that many went into the
         | factories, because working in agriculture was not easy, as
         | machines were not common.
         | 
         | And once factories were there, humans improved working
         | conditions there. While in agriculture, well, way more
         | difficult to do, as the work had to be done.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | In seeing what has recently happened in China, I would agree.
           | A gigantic migration has occurred in the past few decades
           | where Chinese peasants moved from rural areas to the cities
           | to work in factories. I thought for a long time "Why would so
           | many people do this? This factory conditions are quite
           | horrible, or at least the definition of soul-crushing
           | monotony.
           | 
           | I watched a pretty good documentary about this, and the
           | answer pretty clearly seemed to be _opportunity_. It 's kinda
           | similar to how legions of people move to LA to be actors. 99%
           | of them will be worse off for the experience, many of them
           | much more so, but even the chance to escape the conditions of
           | their situation is a powerful draw for a lot of people.
        
             | Turing_Machine wrote:
             | > "Why would so many people do this? This factory
             | conditions are quite horrible, or at least the definition
             | of soul-crushing monotony.
             | 
             | Because, as horrible as the factory conditions might seem
             | to modern eyes, they weren't, in general, as horrible as
             | being an agricultural stoop labor peasant (either in the
             | west in premodern or Victorian times, or in China today).
             | 
             | Serfs were running away to the cities way back in the
             | Middle Ages, long before any Enclosure Acts.
             | 
             | The expected payoff wasn't nearly as low as it is for
             | acting. While life in the cities wasn't a bed of roses by
             | any means (deaths from infectious diseases were at a
             | horrific level, to name just one downside), the one big
             | advantage was that you no longer had a "master" or "lord of
             | the manor" who essentially had the power of life and death
             | over you. Yes, a factory might have a cruel foreman, and
             | many did, but the workers were allowed to _change jobs_.
             | Serfs didn 't have that privilege.
        
               | helpfulmandrill wrote:
               | But on the other hand, the Enclosures provoked a number
               | riots[1], so I don't think everyone agreed with you that
               | "free" city life was better than rural serfdom, with
               | common rights intact.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure#Enclosure_riots
        
               | Turing_Machine wrote:
               | Of course everyone didn't agree. People don't work that
               | way. Even today, there are people who prefer living in
               | cabins without electricity or running water somewhere out
               | in the Brooks Range of Alaska. However, most people don't
               | do that (though a large number claim to aspire to
               | something like that, few actually do it, and of the ones
               | who actually do it, even fewer stick it out once the
               | realities set in).
               | 
               | The point is that the migration to the cities was in
               | progress long before the Enclosure Acts came on the
               | scene.
        
               | helpfulmandrill wrote:
               | I'm not sure that is the point. I personally don't think
               | we can treat the choice made by such large numbers of
               | people as comparable to the choices of a few modern
               | cabin-dwelling weirdos. I think we should take seriously
               | what appears to have seemed preferable for large numbers
               | of people at the time, given the information they had,
               | and lacking the benefit of centuries of hindsight.
        
             | Aunche wrote:
             | > 99% of them will be worse off for the experience, many of
             | them much more so
             | 
             | Chinese migrant workers aren't comparable to aspiring LA
             | actors. 99% of people aren't stupid or easily deluded by
             | dreams. You don't decide to move into a factory because you
             | think you'll become the next Andrew Carnegie. You do so you
             | can send money to your family in case if the harvest isn't
             | good or they need to see a doctor. People have it so good
             | here that they have completely forgotten all the hardships
             | of preindustrial life.
        
             | okr wrote:
             | Opportunity, yes, it describes it pretty well.
             | 
             | I also have seen friends from east europe leaving their
             | home countries for opportunity in the west, even when
             | judging from my warm, cosy, settled place, i thought, that
             | their jobs were crappy. But it was opportunity for them.
             | 
             | And now they also judge from their warm, cosy, settled
             | place. and try to make working conditions better for for
             | their fellows.
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | > Why would so many people do this? This factory conditions
             | are quite horrible, or at least the definition of soul-
             | crushing monotony.
             | 
             | Another part of the answer is that their lives in
             | agriculture were not all that great either. Many of them
             | could have moved back, but they did not, because as bad as
             | this was, it was still better or comparable. The factories
             | made them earn more money and regular money.
             | 
             | People tend to romanticize the agricultural or even
             | hunters-gatherers lifestyle. In ideal conditions, it can be
             | good. But conditions are not always ideal.
        
           | mikewarot wrote:
           | I was going to argue about the dangers of factory work, then
           | I remembered just how dangerous a scythe can be. Work, in
           | general, was a dangerous thing back then.
        
           | Veen wrote:
           | It depends on your definition of "pushed" or "forced". People
           | often migrated from country to city for economic reasons. It
           | was the only way to make a living for many. Others simply
           | wanted to make more money or take advantage of other
           | opportunities. You might say economic circumstances forced
           | them to give up agriculture for factory work.
        
             | okr wrote:
             | I agree. Or as someone above said, it created opportunity.
        
           | helpfulmandrill wrote:
           | Google "The Enclosures". In Britain people had their right to
           | subsist off common land removed by Parliament[1].
           | 
           | You can argue that the move from agriculture to industry,
           | from countryside to city, would have happened anyway. What is
           | indisputable is that for many people, the possibility of
           | subsisting in the ways they had before were systematically
           | removed by the state (at the time under the complete control
           | of the property-owning classes).
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure#Parliamentary_Inc
           | los...
        
             | Aunche wrote:
             | Would enclosures not have happened if industrialization
             | didn't? IMO this was inevitable because peasants simply
             | lost the leverage that they had received after the black
             | plague. Countries like the US had no such laws, yet they
             | all went through the same industrialization occurred all
             | the same.
        
               | helpfulmandrill wrote:
               | I don't know. Impossible to tell, I guess. I'm just
               | pointing out that choice didn't come into it for many
               | people. What choices they would have made had history
               | gone differently, I can't say.
               | 
               | Whatever might, hypothetically have happened in another
               | timeline, as a matter of historical fact it was _not_ a
               | peaceful, free-market process of people voting with their
               | feet.
        
           | pratik661 wrote:
           | Theres been some research in modern day Bangladesh that seems
           | to suggest that a presence of a garment factory in a village
           | (aka sweatshop to some people) is associated with higher
           | educational attainment for women and school completion rates.
           | 
           | Basically, garment factory work requires some level of
           | literacy and numeracy. Having a factory in your village which
           | provides jobs and independence vs farm labor work provides
           | people an incentive to complete a certain level of schooling.
        
           | netcan wrote:
           | The story is complex. There aren't really no "gimme evidence"
           | answers to these kinds of issues. A lot of people over
           | centuries in many countries give you a lot if stories.
           | 
           | One major factor was population growth. This was due to the
           | coming of American crops (corn, potatoes, etc) and the green
           | revolution (fertilizers, machinery, etc.).
           | 
           | Another major factor (say in Ireland, where I'm from) was a
           | change in the social-political system. There was a shift from
           | old the old lordship order to a more modern landlord order.
           | Relationships (rights, obligations) between lords/landlords
           | and the landed an unlanded peasantry... Today we might call
           | it rural unemployment and/or a small farm debt crisis. The
           | latter half of this change is known in Ireland as "the land
           | wars."
           | 
           | There were also "pull" factors. These are more complicated,
           | because they do involve choice. Cities offered a lot of hope.
           | You _might_ do very well in a city. Many did poorly though,
           | and food /sanitation was often worse. A lot of the migration
           | was (for example) adolescents sent to work as domestic
           | servants... so thinking in terms of "homo economicus" is best
           | tempered with some visualisations... say Oliver Twist.
           | 
           | Similar things happen today in developing economies. Rural
           | unemployment and stagnation. Cities that offer shiny
           | opportunities in a game with few winners and many losers.
           | Hence urban slums, 80 hr workweeks, etc.
           | 
           | Working conditions in factories was also a 200+ year process.
           | Unions played a big role. Politics played a big role.
           | Revolutions and fear of revolutions played a big role. In
           | Ireland, Soviet and pre-soviet revolutions were the threat
           | that catalyzed land and labour reforma immediately before
           | independence from the UK and after it. The Irish independence
           | war was contemporary to the Russian Revolution, so the
           | politics were naturally intertwined.
           | 
           | For the most part, material conditions for the poor were a
           | lot worse in the cities for most of the industrial era(s).
           | Education was better and people became more worldly in
           | cities. Rural peasantry tends to be culturally stagnant by
           | default. Marx, in his day, saw this migration as the
           | preceding factor to revolution. He was snobbishly dismissive
           | of peasants' ability to evolve culturally, so revolution had
           | to wait until a generation or two was seasoned by city life.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | I like this more unusual list of things to be grateful for, as it
       | complements well what one is usually reminded to be grateful for.
       | I'd like a more fundamental point there, though:
       | 
       | Gratefulness seems to be primarily a ternary operator: "<SOMEONE>
       | is grateful to <SOMEONE> for <SOMETHING>." (like "a ? b : c" in
       | C).
       | 
       | That second SOMEONE is the one that the being grateful is
       | directed at, as they are responsible for things being the way
       | they are. (Being grateful to anyone not causally connected to
       | what one is grateful about seems most weird.)
       | 
       | Does that not mean that every grateful person acknowledges God's
       | existence, at least implicitly?
        
         | thwave wrote:
         | Unless gratefulness is actually binary (x is grateful for y),
         | and directing this gratefulness towards someone is completely
         | optional. (One might argue that the object of gratefulness is
         | optional as well, and you can be grateful simpliciter, in an
         | unqualified way. But to them I'd say there's an implied,
         | general, object: the world, life, existence, or something like
         | this.)
        
         | mistermann wrote:
         | > That second SOMEONE is the one that the being grateful is
         | directed at, as they are responsible for things being the way
         | they are. (Being grateful to anyone not causally connected to
         | what one is grateful about seems most weird.)
         | 
         | How does one go about (accurately) decomposing causality in a
         | system this complex and poorly understood though?
        
           | shrimp_emoji wrote:
           | And a system founded on a complete misunderstanding of the
           | ternary operator
        
         | vcxy wrote:
         | > Does that not mean that every grateful person acknowledges
         | God's existence, at least implicitly?
         | 
         | No. It means that the emotion of gratefulness isn't always a
         | simple reduction to what you have there. Similarly, I think
         | thwave who replied to you is also wrong. The emotion doesn't
         | have to always follow such a simplified framework or be legibly
         | caused. Of course it has to have some causal chain, but I think
         | the legibility could be as opaque as "X is grateful for Y
         | because Z suggested that maybe they should be" where Z didn't
         | have anything to do with Y, Y doesn't necessarily do much for
         | X, and so on. It doesn't make the emotion of gratefulness any
         | less valid. I expect the ways the emotion could come about is
         | varied enough to avoid these simplifications.
        
       | ElectronShak wrote:
       | I'm thankful for the Internet, you wouldn't be reading this
       | otherwise
        
       | pkdpic wrote:
       | Im thankful to have a job and a roof over my head and a little
       | bit of savings. Not having to really worry about money still
       | blows my mind now and then.
       | 
       | Looking across the street every day in California and seeing the
       | homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of
       | what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up
       | for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck.
       | 
       | Working in software isn't always easy or fun or fulfilling but
       | its still an incredible privilege to be working in this industry.
        
         | LiquidPolymer wrote:
         | This strikes home for me. I come from an extended family of
         | laborers and addicts. All of us had the same future: miserable
         | work, low wages, multiple bankruptcies, and early death.
         | 
         | I'm 57. I've worked as a photographer for 32 years, made a
         | great living and traveled the world. I've collaborated with
         | incredible people, and seen (and documented) amazing things.
         | 
         | I live in a beautiful house (I paid it off years ago) in a
         | great city. I have zero debt and have so many options about
         | what I'll do.
         | 
         | My retirement investments have been done very well (good luck
         | getting me to stop working). I have a wonderful family and an
         | incredible daughter.
         | 
         | I never take any of this for granted. I am so thankful. My
         | siblings, cousins, aunts, etc see me like an alien creature. At
         | 57 I'm the oldest living male in generations of my family.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | California sounds so extreme in this regard. When I started
         | working in software in the UK I made much less than say a
         | hairdresser, and never saw homeless people (not in a city
         | so...). I didn't feel this stark difference that being in 2020s
         | + SF seems to highlight.
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | I hear you man, I hear you
        
         | igorkraw wrote:
         | If you can and aren't already, maybe consider organising with
         | less privileged workers for things like striking in unison. Or
         | getting politically active to grow economy and society so it
         | will be kinder and allow a slip up.
         | 
         | One of the many reasons I would never move to the US is that in
         | Europe I _don 't_ feel like a minor slip up or bad luck will
         | send me into financial ruin. I'll need surgery on my shoulder
         | soon and hopefully it should be fully covered by my health
         | insurance, no added charges. It's an example that comes up
         | again and again and I'm sure people in your position worry less
         | about it, but it's something I keep seeing play a role with my
         | acquaintances and online
        
         | _huayra_ wrote:
         | Even things like not having to budget for groceries and the
         | occasional going out to eat is something I often take for
         | granted. I stay frugal, but have never really had to hem and
         | haw about whether I should spring for the organic produce or
         | fair trade coffee.
         | 
         | "I can't afford this" is a lot more difficult of a circumstance
         | to be in than "boy that was a dumb idea to purchase some
         | pricey, fancy, but nasty cheese on a whim"
        
       | krisrm wrote:
       | Realized after reading this that it's American Thanksgiving
       | today. Happy Thanksgiving to our American friends. I'm thankful
       | for a lovely forum where we can read and share articles like this
       | one.
        
         | borepop wrote:
         | Agreed. The tone of the HN comments section is occasionally
         | somewhat more contentious now than a few years ago, but it has
         | not generally devolved into the sort of partisan pissing
         | match/bad-faith clusterfuck seen elsewhere in the interwebs. To
         | some extent I attribute that to the fact that valuing science
         | and reason can be a helpful quality in moderating the tone of
         | interaction, even among anons. Which is really a lucky thing.
        
           | Method5440 wrote:
           | Prove it, you partisan hack. :)
        
         | kubb wrote:
         | Also respectful condolences to the Native Americans in their
         | day of mourning.
        
         | throwamon wrote:
         | On Thanksgiving I'm especially thankful I'm not a Native
         | American living a few centuries or decades or even seconds ago.
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | I'm happy that ice floats.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | Happier that water freezes at a pretty tolerable temperature
         | and happens to be our main source of sustenance. Makes adding
         | water ice to things a very refreshing experience!
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | And that the carbon 12 nucleus has that excited state at just
         | the right energy to make the triple-alpha process work.
        
       | decremental wrote:
       | I'm thankful for the HN moderator dang.
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | I'm thankful for Hacker News and this post
        
       | flycaliguy wrote:
       | I really like this idea of listing things to be thankful for. I
       | might just start up a mega list in my house for my kids to
       | contribute to. Maybe a binder? Something we can revisit together
       | and contribute to.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | seba_dos1 wrote:
       | > meaning that people with a sweet tooth can avoid the large,
       | known harms of sugar with minimal exertion of willpower
       | 
       | Aspartame tastes so awful I can't see how that's going to make me
       | thankful.
        
         | brink wrote:
         | On top of it tasting bad, it gives me migraines. The only
         | theory I have for why that is is that I'm allergic.
        
           | Kranar wrote:
           | Another more plausible explanation is that it's
           | psychological. It's common among many who believe aspartame
           | is unhealthy that it gives them migraines or headaches, but
           | in a double-blind study, every single person who self-
           | reported adverse reactions to aspartame were unable to do so
           | over the course of the study. On the other hand, those who
           | claimed sensitivity rated very high on various psychological
           | metrics such as perceived stress and anxiety:
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4364783/
           | 
           | This is not to say that you don't genuinely feel something
           | and are just making it up, but that it's not a consequence of
           | aspartame and is rooted in an entirely different phenomenon
           | that you've associated with aspartame for one reason or
           | another.
        
         | jturpin wrote:
         | Diet sodas to me taste awful, but lately I've been putting a
         | single packet of Equal in my coffee with some vanilla and it
         | tastes great. Lord knows I can cut out the sugar wherever
         | possible.
        
       | okl wrote:
       | > Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is
       | an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find
       | myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me
       | staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!"
        
         | EForEndeavour wrote:
         | Obligatory:
         | https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/TheEnigmaOfAmig...
         | 
         | > "This hole...! It was made for me!"
         | 
         | > A short horror manga story by Junji Ito. A boy named Owaki,
         | and a girl, Yoshida, meet on Amigara Mountain, where an
         | unsettling discovery has been made. An earthquake has created a
         | huge fault in the mountain, and human-shaped holes are
         | scattered across the face of the fault line. It soon becomes
         | clear that the holes are "calling" to the people they are
         | shaped like. So what happens when they enter the hole? Well,
         | you can be sure that massive amounts of claustrophobia and
         | Nightmare Fuel are involved.
        
         | elwell wrote:
         | It's all perspective.
        
         | mistermann wrote:
         | Imagine if it actually was! That'd be pretty funny I think.
        
       | a_wild_dandan wrote:
       | I'm thankful that the freak accident of multicellular life
       | happened, possibly once ever, billions of years ago.[1] The near
       | impossibility of that momentous event happening could be The
       | Great Filter that explains the Fermi Paradox.[2] Thanks for being
       | here, fellow multicellular friends.
       | 
       | [1] (Start at 2:15)
       | https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/cellm...
       | 
       | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
        
         | 5faulker wrote:
         | When we understand that life is an opportunity rather than a
         | given, it really changes our perspective on life.
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | I'm thankful for every HN user and moderator who helps remove
       | political or mean comments.
        
       | quickthrower2 wrote:
       | Re #15 I watched a show about a boy who got infected with ecoli.
       | The defence was plasma transfusion (I think) which was
       | experimental at the time. He survived ... barely. The bacteria
       | tore through his body, made a hole in his stomach. The point is
       | out sophisticated defence goes beyond the immune system into the
       | knowledge, technology, science. Imagine what covid would be like
       | without technology, governments, money, coordination. May have
       | spread more slowly at the global level of course without
       | technology but would be way more deadly.
        
       | pyrrhotech wrote:
       | I'm thankful we still live in a society with personal and
       | economic liberty. Both those on the far left and the far right
       | are trying to take those from us, and the center is vanishing as
       | America becomes more polarized each cycle. I'm convinced one day
       | in the future, we will no longer have the freedoms we enjoy
       | today, so I live each day to the fullest knowing that nothing
       | good lasts forever.
        
       | mgraczyk wrote:
       | I'm thankful for Hacker News and internet cultures that support
       | and share articles like this. Things that are intellectually
       | gratifying without being overly specific, topical, or focused on
       | any particular goal. Just interesting thoughts for the sake of
       | their interestingness.
        
       | alexanderdmitri wrote:
       | Thankfulness as an end is not necessarily valuable or positive. I
       | think the associated feeling does little to the make the world a
       | better place, I put it in the same category as remorse.
       | 
       | Just as remorse should lead to rectifying action, thankfulness
       | should lead to reciprocal action to provide objective value.
       | 
       | What's interesting is the impetus between internal perception and
       | outward action both share is a sense of indebtedness.
       | Thankfulness becomes a passive accumulation of debt in this lens,
       | whereas remorse casts our hero in a more active role.
       | 
       | I think also actions spawned from thankfulness will be more
       | comedic [dynamic] in nature and whereas those from remorse will
       | tend toward the tragic [static]. The efficacy of either approach
       | will reflect the constraints of the systems they are acting
       | within and how well conceived the individual's solution is.
       | 
       | Not sure where I'm going with this. Spitballing, not preaching
       | ...
        
         | polishdude20 wrote:
         | I think thankfulness is more of a tool to be used to counter
         | act nihilism. That's why it can be useful. not on its own, but
         | as a buttress against despair.
        
           | alexanderdmitri wrote:
           | I think this very good point. There is an undeniably good
           | vibe to it. Maybe something akin to a general faith?
        
         | exolymph wrote:
         | > Thankfulness as an end is not necessarily valuable or
         | positive.
         | 
         | Yes it is; it makes me feel good.
        
           | alexanderdmitri wrote:
           | If the inherent value is solipsistic and self-justifying,
           | then it is more likely to be detrimental to the overall
           | system. This would make it a net negative.
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | how about: Ice is less dense than liquid water, so it floats.
       | That means bodies of water don't freeze solid in the winter,
       | which would have precluded life anywhere colder than the tropics.
        
       | mrtnmcc wrote:
       | "Oh, and also that the universe exists at all"
       | 
       | That's the one to keep coming back to. Could've been nothin.
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | On the other hand, nothingness has no cause or means for
         | suffering.
        
           | a_wild_dandan wrote:
           | Which comes back to #19:
           | 
           | > That even if, as most scientific-minded people seem to
           | assume, there is no afterlife, that's not ideal, but is much
           | better than other possibilities like, say, being tortured for
           | eternity.
           | 
           | Like, we could all be a bunch of Boltzmann brains[1] popping
           | into existence in an empty universe, writhing with
           | unimaginable pain in every pseudo-neuron of our temporary
           | brains. But it's not like that, at least yet. Which is pretty
           | cool.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
        
             | saltyfamiliar wrote:
             | There is no "we" that could be like that if it's boltzmann
             | brains all the way down. It could very well be mostly
             | unimaginable agony that exists, it's just that the
             | temporary boltzmann configuration of "posting a thought on
             | HN as a human with human memories" happens to not be a part
             | of that.
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | Some, like Stephen Wolfram, say that the universe must exists,
         | that non-existance is not possible.
         | 
         | https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2021/04/why-does-the-uni...
        
       | elil17 wrote:
       | I'm thankful for yeast. It's so, so convenient that we have a
       | non-pathogenic bacteria which will eat pretty much any simple
       | sugar, can be found on the surfaces of most fruits, and is
       | essentially effortless to cultivate, which also does a bunch of
       | useful things like leaven bread and make a bunch of delicious
       | short chain fatty acids (both in bread and on their own, like in
       | marmite) and make alcohol (although that one maybe does more harm
       | than good)!
        
         | sombremesa wrote:
         | Alcohol definitely does more good, just consider the uses it
         | has aside from being ingested.
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Also, consider how many flights went smoothly because of
           | alcohol.. I mean, outing myself as British here but (every
           | flight) without a stuff gin or three, that woman in-front of
           | me would have had a stern talking to I can tell you! :}
        
             | quickthrower2 wrote:
             | I wonder if British are more reserved because they've
             | evolved to have about a unit or two of alcohol in the blood
             | stream at all times at which point it's the sweet spot. I
             | jest of course. Also I'm a Brit.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | Yeast are not bacteria. They are eukaryotes.
        
           | CogitoCogito wrote:
           | Well to be fair the poster was referring to starters for
           | bread which contain natural populations of both yeast and
           | bacteria. So really we should be thankful for both yeast and
           | bacteria. :)
           | 
           | That said, just as the other poster I'm also thankful for
           | pedants like yourself. This is a mistake I probably make
           | myself all the time.
        
           | dgb23 wrote:
           | I'm thankful for nerds who make corrections so I can learn
           | some interesting fact.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | I'm thankful for wikipedia which has probably taught me
             | more biology than my professors ever did. So many detailed
             | articles, and it's actually fun to read them because they
             | contain so many details that never seem to get mentioned in
             | school. The abundance of links lead to a fun exploration of
             | the subject and a massive respect for nature and its
             | designs.
        
             | victorcharlie wrote:
             | Actually, yeasts are unicellular fungus. I believe that
             | fungus are the most important life-form in this planet _by
             | far_.
             | 
             | Pretty cool, huh? :)
        
               | bckr wrote:
               | > unicellular fungus
               | 
               | Belongs under the Eurkaryote heading, no?
        
               | Trex_Egg wrote:
               | yes
        
               | dgb23 wrote:
               | That is pretty cool! Paul Stamets is worth mentioning
               | here. One can find a ton of media presence, books and
               | projects from him. Very interesting stuff!
        
               | HWR_14 wrote:
               | Fungi, like plants and animals, are eukaryotes. However,
               | eukaryotes and bacteria occupy the same rung in the
               | taxonomic divisions (they are domains), so it's the more
               | appropriate correction. The third domain is prokaryotes.
        
               | riedel wrote:
               | My wikipedia fact checking tells me that the third domain
               | is archaea which together with the bacteria are
               | prokaryotes. Or did I read sth wrong?
        
               | dan_mctree wrote:
               | >I believe that fungus are the most important life-form
               | in this planet by far.
               | 
               | Would love to hear more about this!
        
         | butwhywhyoh wrote:
         | I'm thankful for oxygen because we can breathe it! And it can
         | be found pretty much everywhere in the atmosphere of planet
         | Earth. And I'm thankful for all the other elements that I'm
         | composed of. They can even be used to do other miraculous
         | things. Wonderful!
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Nestle is fighting over control of freshwater sources. I
           | reckon oxygen is next.
           | 
           | In the future, be thankful with your wallet.
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | You don't have to wait. Oxygen bars are already a thing,
             | and have been for quite a while.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_bar
        
               | blowski wrote:
               | For a moment, I thought it was going to be an empty
               | chocolate bar wrapper. I wonder how much better this
               | actually is.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | I'm thankful for mitochondria which allows us to use the
           | oxygen to perform aerobic respiration, enabling more complex
           | forms of life. It seems they were once bacteria which were
           | somehow absorbed by eukaryote cells and turned into an
           | organelle, an hydro-eletro-chemical power plant. Thanks
           | bacteria!
        
         | SubjectToChange wrote:
         | Yeast is a type of fungus.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | True lol thank you. Meant to say "microbe"
        
         | CogitoCogito wrote:
         | I like this and totally agree! I baked two naturally leavened
         | loaves of bread this morning for thanksgiving and am currently
         | drinking a beer. On a regular day I would eat some form of
         | yogurt as well. It really is an amazing little part of life. :)
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | Alcohol let our ancestors survive. Weakly alcoholic beer was
         | far healthier than water because its production likely killed
         | germs in the water.
        
           | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
           | I recently read that that's a myth, unfortunately.
        
             | rags2riches wrote:
             | Brewing typically involves boiling. That can kill a germ or
             | two, or so I've read. That's true for brewing tea as well.
        
           | bumby wrote:
           | Edward Slingerland Haha written about a hypothesis that beer
           | was the major reason for inventing agriculture. I don't know
           | how well received that theory is, but it was an interesting
           | and unique take
        
         | jchook wrote:
         | Also yeast is used frequently in medical and biological
         | scientific studies, and helps us learn more about the role of
         | DNA, aging , and certain kinds of cancer.
        
         | adrian_mrd wrote:
         | Thankful for marmite :)
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Damn right. Vegemite isn't even shiny...
        
         | chronogram wrote:
         | > alcohol (although that one maybe does more harm than good)!
         | 
         | Alcohol in the medical field is critical in doing good. A lot
         | of harm has been prevented by alcohol.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | I had this same exact thought the last time i was making
         | bagels. What an absolute miracle it is! And whoever came up
         | with using it to fluff and soften bread through some natural
         | symbiotic reliance of raw nature is just such an incredible
         | step it seems utterly designed from above.
         | 
         | Yes, I'm saying maybe a god exists and loves us because they
         | gave us bread.
        
           | TimTheTinker wrote:
           | Benjamin Franklin thought beer was enough proof that there is
           | a God who loves us and wants us to be happy :-)
        
             | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
             | "Every good quote eventually gets attributed to Lincoln,
             | Wilde, Churchill, or Jobs."
             | 
             | -- Benjamin Franklin
        
             | flatiron wrote:
             | https://www.anchorbrewing.com/blog/say-what-says-who-
             | benjami...
             | 
             | He never said that.
        
               | TimTheTinker wrote:
               | Interesting, thanks!
               | 
               | Looks like he actually said something similar about wine
               | though:
               | 
               |  _We hear of the conversion of water into wine at the
               | marriage in Cana, as of a miracle. But this conversion
               | is, through the goodness of God, made every day before
               | our eyes. Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon
               | our vineyards, and which incorporates itself with the
               | grapes to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God
               | loves us, and loves to see us happy!_ (from a 1779 letter
               | from France to his friend Andre Morellet)
        
               | luckman212 wrote:
               | Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
        
       | bluishgreen wrote:
       | "That other animals have more cone cells than humans, e.g. birds
       | with four and shrimp with up to 16, and so probably see colors we
       | can't even conceive of which, yeah, that limitation of our minds
       | is frustrating, but it also hints that there are huge unseen dark
       | continents of qualia lurking out there which someday we might
       | find a way to visit."
       | 
       | This is based on a misunderstanding regarding the rise of qualia.
       | It is processing power and not sensor capacity or at least both
       | together in some combination with processing power doing the
       | heavy lift. Humans have less cones but several OOM more neurons
       | to make sense of what we have. So no - the shrimp doesn't see in
       | spectacular color.
       | 
       | Experimentally proved:
       | 
       | https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2015/12/mantis-shrimp-...
       | 
       | https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1245824
        
         | ravi-delia wrote:
         | It's still true that if we had cones outside our current color
         | range we'd have new qualia, even if animals don't.
        
           | 323 wrote:
           | In 100 years it will probably be possible to genetically
           | engineer humans with more or extended range pigments, which
           | are sensitive to IR / UV.
           | 
           | Or maybe we'll just have bionic hyper-spectral eyes which
           | plug directly into the optical nerve.
        
           | hardlianotion wrote:
           | Would we? It seems possible that some other sensation could
           | be overloaded as well - ie seeing red where others see only
           | blackness...
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | > That the Earth hasn't recently been hit by a solar flare as
       | powerful as the 1859 Carrington event
       | 
       | Is anyone thinking about what to do? It's only a matter of time
       | before we have another flare 2X or 3X the magnitude of the
       | Carrington event.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | If it really would set power lines alight, there isn't a hell
         | of a lot you can do aside from going off the grid and having a
         | small warehouse full of electrical wiring.
         | 
         | Emergency and catastrophe planning has to happen at the
         | national level. I would like to see more leaders (especially
         | these days) come into office with ideas about how to recover
         | from catastrophic events quickly.
        
           | dheera wrote:
           | By what mechanism do they set power lines on fire in a way
           | that it wouldn't set the lines in my house on fire? Is it the
           | power lines themselves or is it just vicious currents being
           | induced in the lines that cause devices plugged on the other
           | end of the power lines to go up in smoke?
           | 
           | If the grid just shut off power for 24 hours until the CME
           | passed would that solve the problem?
           | 
           | I can easily go 24 hours without power, but not months.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | My understanding is that the flare will induce currents in
             | the sub-station transformers, and this is the big problem.
             | Not sure if disconnecting them helps to prevent damage.
        
           | mistermann wrote:
           | > Emergency and catastrophe planning has to happen at the
           | national level. I would like to see more leaders (especially
           | these days) come into office with ideas about how to recover
           | from catastrophic events quickly.
           | 
           | Me too. I'm hoping we'll get lucky and a relatively small-
           | scale catastrophic event will occur, demonstrating to us how
           | ill prepared we are both materially and
           | socially/culturally/cognitively/etc, and that lesson will
           | provide the incentive for us to launch a serious project to
           | get our act cleaned up.
           | 
           | And in the event that no political leaders rise to the
           | occasion, I am hoping that normal civilians realize there is
           | a problem and begin _seriously_ discussing the risks we are
           | running, perhaps eventually leading to some sort of a plan
           | that our leaders do not have the ability to formulate, or
           | perhaps even realize we need.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | > I'm hoping we'll get lucky and a relatively small-scale
             | catastrophic event will occur ... and that lesson will
             | provide the incentive for us to launch a serious project to
             | get our act cleaned up.
             | 
             | The current pandemic makes me pessimistic regarding this.
             | There is basically no wake up and preparations for a 10%+
             | mortality virus. And that without discussing where the
             | virus came from...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | omnicognate wrote:
       | You'll not make me thankful for aspartame however hard you try.
       | Some good ones there, though.
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | I am thankful for sucralose.
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | Honey and maple syrup.
        
             | npsimons wrote:
             | Agave nectar.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | I will have to try this.
        
           | tyleo wrote:
           | Same. I have a sucralose energy drink every day after lunch.
           | I generally don't add sugar and buy low-sugar products. The
           | joy this drink gives me sometimes feels like a drug trip.
           | 
           | Shameless plug: https://www.alaninu.com/products/energy-
           | drinks-12pk-cosmic-s...
        
             | randlet wrote:
             | > The joy this drink gives me sometimes feels like a drug
             | trip.
             | 
             | Caffeine is a drug so saying "it _feels_ like " is rather
             | understating it.
        
               | tyleo wrote:
               | Agreed but while I drink and enjoy coffee, the equivalent
               | caffeine from this drink somehow seems to pack more of a
               | punch.
        
           | uep wrote:
           | Maybe not the right thread for this, but it seems there are
           | downsides.
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6363527/
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7014832/
        
       | zivkovicp wrote:
       | Sometimes I think #1 could have gone either way, and that would
       | still be OK. -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
       | matbatt38 wrote:
       | Most items are speculative, subjective or even historically
       | inaccurate.
        
         | notreallyserio wrote:
         | Maybe that's why I found this article kind of weird or off-
         | putting. A lot of these things, if they happened or didn't
         | happen, would have meant I wouldn't be alive and thus I
         | wouldn't know to be unhappy about it.
        
           | latortuga wrote:
           | Many things we are traditionally thankful fit the same
           | criteria. I'm thankful for my business partner who I may
           | never have met under different circumstances. Just because
           | something could not have been, doesn't mean you can't be
           | thankful it did.
        
       | LocalH wrote:
       | I'm thankful for existence itself. Sure, it's not always
       | pleasant, but the mere fact that we perceive reality as we do is
       | a fascinating rabbit hole, one that I wish I had discovered
       | decades ago. The subjective experience of existence is one of the
       | big unknowns left in this world, one that I don't think we'll
       | _ever_ truly understand. That 's good though, because human
       | curiosity is one of the wonderful, amazing things we have the
       | capability to do (if other Earth-native, non-human sentient
       | beings have similar curiosities, they don't have nearly the
       | ability to explore them, that we know).
       | 
       | I hope everyone who reads this is having a good day today. May
       | you all have fortune and blessing in your lives.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | Yeah if there was nothing at all things would be a bit dull.
        
         | yourapostasy wrote:
         | I wish more people were aware that we are likely the only
         | radio-using sapients in a 4'ish light year sphere around us [1]
         | (4.4 ly for a 1MW broadcast, where the most powerful radio
         | transmitter in the world is at 2MW). And that we're roughly in
         | the center of the KBC Void [2], about a billion light years
         | from the nearest "normal" baryonic density of the currently-
         | known universe.
         | 
         | We might not be alone inside the KBC Void, but if we aren't,
         | they and us are on a pretty isolated island of sapients in the
         | currently-known universe.
         | 
         | Sapience is astronomically, vanishingly rare as far as we can
         | tell so far. Some of us treasure it and are thankful for it
         | accordingly. Perceiving reality at the level we do, with the
         | understanding we only scratched an atom of the total surface so
         | far, is both inspiring and humbling at the same time.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.quora.com/How-far-do-radio-signals-travel-
         | into-s...
         | 
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBC_Void
        
       | Lamad123 wrote:
       | 0. That some HN commenters rush to call bullshit out when they
       | detect a lot of it.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-25 23:00 UTC)