[HN Gopher] Museum of Plugs and Sockets
___________________________________________________________________
Museum of Plugs and Sockets
Author : fortran77
Score : 185 points
Date : 2021-11-25 03:42 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.plugsocketmuseum.nl)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.plugsocketmuseum.nl)
| bichiliad wrote:
| I'm on vacation in France and I've been really surprised to see
| that the ground connections in wall sockets is a pin (rather than
| a port). I couldn't believe that this site was on HN, and of
| course there's a whole page on exactly this design. Sadly, the
| answer seems to be "we have no idea why it's like that, even
| though we've tried to find out."
|
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/EarthPin-sockets.html
| stinos wrote:
| Just guessing I'd think it has to do with the idea that "after
| all it's ground" so must be safe safe to touch and might even
| makes sense to do so (like discharging yuorself before touching
| small electronics in case you're not wired to ground with a
| strap).
| marcodiego wrote:
| I like the Brazilian standard:
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/IEC60906-1.html :
| - It has a ground pin and - it is very safe: when the
| contact is established all conducting parts are already hidden,
| untouchable by operator's hands.
|
| But it has one flaw: you can't change the orientation of the male
| plug. This sometimes leads to awkward positions of devices or
| female plugs that get inaccessible because it is covered by
| another device.
|
| A simple solution could be: the female plug could have 2 ground
| holes, this way the male plug would be able to connect in two
| different orientations. Anyone knows of a plug that has this
| feature?
| Filligree wrote:
| > But it has one flaw: you can't change the orientation of the
| male plug. This sometimes leads to awkward positions of devices
| or female plugs that get inaccessible because it is covered by
| another device.
|
| I can only speak for the UK system, but that's a feature. While
| most AC devices will work fine with the polarity reversed, the
| wires _are_ polar; it 's common in many AC systems to have a
| 'neutral' line that's actually tied to ground at the
| distribution panel.
|
| This is a safety feature. The circuit design of your devices
| can't depend on it, because e.g. the EU plugs are symmetrical,
| but many of them will absolutely be safer to use if the neutral
| line is neutral.
| jacquesm wrote:
| > but many of them will absolutely be safer to use if the
| neutral line is neutral.
|
| I'm not aware of any EU device that binds the live or neutral
| wires in a preferential way that would make the device safer
| in a particular plug orientation. You are likely violating
| electrical standards and/or certification if that is the
| case.
|
| Keep in mind that once upon a time European networks were
| standardized, and that before then we had many different sets
| of voltages, such as 110 and dual 110 giving 220V (much like
| the US single phase system today for higher power consumers).
|
| Your typical setup will contain a ground, a neutral and a
| live all fed through ground fault protected circuits from the
| distribution panel, with a string of sockets/hardwired
| consumers hanging off the same circuit. Each of the sockets
| in a new installation will export ground, in older electrical
| installations it is common to just have live and neutral, but
| the hookup is arbitrary.
|
| So _if_ there is a consumer that is safer with neutral hooked
| up to a particular pin and live to the other then that
| consumer is likely not compliant with the electrical code /CE
| certification. It is common to indicate where to hook up L/N
| on hardwired consumers but for safety there is no preference.
| jimktrains2 wrote:
| As a non-electrican, i thought we moved to polarized plugs
| in the us because it's safer to have switches on the live
| wire and not neutral so that the system isn't "live" when
| the power is off.
| jacquesm wrote:
| That would be a false sense of safety. You simply should
| use a double pole switch if that is a valid concern, and
| if you are working on a device you shouldn't switch it
| off but unplug it, and if it is hardwired trip the
| breaker for that circuit and lock it out.
| jacquesm wrote:
| To expand a bit on that: 230/240V is commonly two legs of
| a 'delta' wired transformer, there is no 'neutral' in
| that case, you only have that when you have a transformer
| in 'star' configuration.
| marcodiego wrote:
| Found it: https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Italian1.html
| Italians did it right. But I still think a female connector
| with 2 holes is better: it may better hold the weight of the
| device.
| jve wrote:
| > Anyone knows of a plug that has this feature?
|
| Used in Europe: https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Schuko1.html
| johnwalkr wrote:
| Tip: ask for a plug adapter in a decent European hotel, and you
| have a good chance to be given a nice one.
|
| I live in a place with US style plugs, and I like to travel
| light. So in my suitcase I keep just one US-EU adapter, and
| employ the pen lid trick [1] to use it in UK style outlets. US,
| EU and UK style outlets cover basically 100% of my travel
| destinations. I can't recommend this trick, but it does work and
| saves me from carrying a bulky UK adapter.
|
| [1] https://www.spgedwards.com/2012/07/howto-hack-uk-power-
| socke...
| hereforphone wrote:
| Great site design, great topic. 10/10
| p1mrx wrote:
| I think Schuko is my favorite. It's (somewhat) compact, shields
| the live prongs, and feels solid. For a while I was running my
| computer/monitor from a fused German surge protector wired to a
| US 240V outlet.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| If you grew up with Schuko, anything smaller just feels flimsy.
| The plugs used in Japan (the US type) to me felt like they live
| in a world where everything is scaled down to 3/5 of
| normality (which, in Japan, is somewhat apt).
|
| Changing these standards is pretty much impossible by now,
| although some smaller plug variant holdouts might move to
| Schuko at some point. Oddly enough, South Korea got Schuko,
| which makes for a really interesting exception in that region.
| hyakosm wrote:
| I grew up with french plugs (compatible with schuko) and I'm
| very careful when I'm using US plugs and outlets. The fact
| that a plugged appliance can have visible metal prongs is
| terrifying.
| remix2000 wrote:
| Compared to the French standard, Schutzkontakt lacks
| polarization (bruh), fails to accept cheap ungrounded Chinese
| plugs lacking the cutouts (it's also harder to incise those
| properly for Schuko, unlike the French ones where you just
| punch a hole straight through) and is subjectively flimsier in
| general.
| p1mrx wrote:
| The lack of polarization makes it safer to use Schuko with a
| NEMA 6-15 plug, which has hot-hot-ground instead of hot-
| neutral-ground.
|
| If the receptacle had a well defined neutral, then devices
| might expect it to be neutral.
| hadrien01 wrote:
| In my new (French) apartment, I'm going to change all French
| plugs into Schuko plugs. They're fully compatible with all
| appliances (because of the CEE 7 Schuko plus French standard),
| but the simple fact that you can put the connector in any way
| is simply great (just as USB-C was life-changing on mobile
| devices)
| [deleted]
| aetherspawn wrote:
| > BS 4573. British, but de facto international, socket for
| shavers only, rated at 115-230 Volt - 0.2 Amp. Shaver sockets
| accept the following not earthed plugs: British BS 4573,
| Europlugs (CEE 7/16), straight blade NEMA 1-15P and Australian
| type not earthed flat blade plugs.
|
| Amazing. There's a wall socket that accepts any plug, "for
| shavers only". They know the pain.
| Taniwha wrote:
| The "shavers only" socket seems to be available world wide - my
| favorite is the Chinese universal (I'm the proud owner of such
| a power strip I use when travelling)
|
| I'm talking about #12 here
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/China1.html
| pxeger1 wrote:
| Only the kind of person to use HackerNews would be interested in
| a museum of plugs and sockets... hahahaha
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Betting you'll really get a chuckle out of
| http://www.horg.com/horg/
| kortex wrote:
| That was delightful! I never knew there was so much variety
| in Occlupanids. Someone should extend that system to plugs
| and sockets.
| hawski wrote:
| Off topic: I wonder what kind of a projection is used for the map
| of Europe. It seems to be very badly wrapped.
| LegitShady wrote:
| I feel like this will be an interesting side quest in a future
| fallout game.
| snt wrote:
| Australian plugs are the best I've used for the following reasons
| (amongst others, mostly mentioned in TFA): two and three-pin
| (earthed) use the same socket; irreversible (even the 2-pin plug
| is polarized); the flat pins allow a larger plug/socket contact
| area for current; small size; partially insulated power-pins stop
| shorts if stray conductors fall on partially-plugged in plugs.
| (I'm not Australian and don't live there.)
| jamil7 wrote:
| Yeah I miss them. When we visited home last, my girlfriend
| (German) was amazed that we have a switch on them to turn each
| plug off and on rather than having to completely yank it out of
| the wall like with the Euro ones.
| XorNot wrote:
| The sockets also go up to 32 amps while being seamlessly
| backwards compatible with lower amperages (via keying the
| ground prong). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112
| codecutter wrote:
| This is an unusual topic for a museum. I found it rather
| interesting. Thanks for all your effort.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| We managed to standardize lightbulbs but we didn't manage to
| standardize sockets or mains voltage. It seems weird.
| stephen_g wrote:
| At least we did end up standardising many things on IEC C8
| (figure-8 socket on all sorts of low-amperage, non grounded
| devices) and IEC C14 socket (on computers, servers, etc.) and
| quite a lot of equipment is tolerant of either 110V/60Hz and
| 230V/50Hz systems.
| robin_reala wrote:
| Lightbulbs are standardised? Say hello to B22 bayonet mount,
| used in the UK and large parts of the commonwealth.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet_mount#Light_bulbs
| Bayart wrote:
| God I hate those things. It used to be the standard in
| France, now we've moved to the screw type. Still, plenty of
| old sockets used that system. I'm always terrified on putting
| too much pressure and pop a light bulb in my hand.
| citrin_ru wrote:
| A British home often has a mix of different lamp sockets
| which include B22. But this is something a homeowner can
| replace, unlike wall socket where you bound by devices sold
| in the country.
| stordoff wrote:
| They're not even standardised within the UK, as a lot of
| newer installations seem to use Edison screws (both B27 and
| E14). I've encountered many houses that use a mix of ES and
| bayonet fittings (and GU10s) or exclusively use ES.
| OJFord wrote:
| New _er_ use B27 sure, (only come across E14 in extractor
| hoods personally) but new _today_ (and ~last 20 years?)
| tend to be GU10.
| tentacleuno wrote:
| GU10's are commonly used in LED retrofits. There are also
| those recessed ceiling light modules you can buy. They're
| similar in size to your GU10 bracket but much bulkier,
| and the whole thing needs to be replaced when the light
| goes out. On the other hand, I hear they are much more
| reliable (due to better heat dissipation, presumably).
| tentacleuno wrote:
| It is quite strange how you could quite easily plug a 120V
| light bulb into a 240V socket (or vice versa). I feel like
| there should be more protection around that.
| 7952 wrote:
| Originally houses were only wired for light and people would
| plug their appliances into the light socket.
| isthisnametaken wrote:
| Indeed. I used to have some old bayonet fitting plugs from my
| grandparents' house.
|
| One was even in its original box, which showed an
| illustration of woman ironing using an electric iron powered
| by a cable hanging from the light fitting.
| teddyh wrote:
| Electricity used to be priced differently for lights versus
| other uses (lights were much cheaper), so these product
| were essentially DRM-bypassing tools.
| tialaramex wrote:
| In what era are you claiming this?
|
| The UK does have "Economy 7" tariffs which are a much
| simplified off-peak discount intended primarily for
| storage heating. The idea is, we provide a meter which
| knows what time it is, for 7 hours each night (when
| generally power usage is lower) you are charged less per
| kWh than the other 21 hours per day.
|
| If you keep a Tokyo schedule but live in Yorkshire then
| this might work for you, but the primary use case was
| electric storage heating, during the night cheap
| electricity heats some bricks in a box, during the day
| you let the heat out of the box to keep your home warm,
| next night the bricks are re-heated. It's annoying
| because weather is hard to predict, if you wake up to an
| unexpected blizzard, too bad, you will freeze or need to
| use an "immediate" heating source that's very expensive,
| alternatively if you predict the blizzard but wake to
| find it's sunny and mild, now your home is 25degC and you
| feel like an idiot.
|
| I'm not aware of it ever being the case that some
| household _circuits_ were charged differently in order to
| make lighting cheaper and it seems unlikely this would be
| effective. Electric lighting was a huge winner because it
| 's both more convenient _and_ cheaper to use than gas (or
| worse oil) lamps so an incentive seems unnecessary.
| wpietri wrote:
| On the one hand, this site is a very cool look at something I
| genuinely enjoy studying.
|
| On the other hand, it makes me despair a bit for the future of
| technology. Such simple tech! So many basically equivalent
| solutions! And we'll be stuck with this chaos for how long?
|
| The only prospect I see for unification would be USB-C, which is
| going from 100W to 240W max, and maybe isn't done growing. But
| given the delicacy of USB-C connections, that's probably even
| worse. "Honey, is the TV broken?" "No, the USB-C wall plug just
| fell out again."
| ziml77 wrote:
| Oh man I really wish they held tighter. The USB-C cable that I
| charge most of my devices with is constantly popping out of the
| power brick. It's an Apple brick and a Belkin cable, so
| certainly not the cheapest stuff.
|
| I am considering epoxying the damned thing in!
| asplake wrote:
| As a Brit, got to say that I wish we used Europlugs here. Ours
| are so bulky (a pain for anything portable), and the US ones seem
| so flimsy.
|
| Also, there ought to be a museum of hotel electrics. Weird light
| switch behaviour, dumb (pre phone charger) socket placement,
| heating/cooling controls, etc
| Sosh101 wrote:
| I have the opposite opinion. There are many things I don't link
| about europlugs, but the tubular prongs are probably the worst
| thing IMO. The friction between them and the contacts in the
| socket is often so much that it's no uncommon to pull the whole
| socket out of the wall when removing a plug. Also sometimes the
| "dome" at the end of the prong can get dented with extended
| use, making it very difficult to insert, and sometimes damaging
| the socket (though this may be due to cheap plugs). Also lack
| of on-socket switches means a lot of stuff stays powered
| needlessly.
| gmac wrote:
| Fellow Brit, strongly disagree. The Europlug feels to me barely
| less flimsy than the US type. Ours and the Schuko are about the
| only ones I feel fully safe using.
| [deleted]
| pmlnr wrote:
| European in the UK: I broke the pins of several europlug ones
| by accidentally bumping them. Thankfully they didn't break into
| the socket. I'll take the german or the uk ones only; europlug
| is just too weak.
| tiziano88 wrote:
| If I had to choose a plug to use all over the world, it would
| actually probably be the UK one (or perhaps a slightly less
| bulky version of it). See https://youtu.be/UEfP1OKKz_Q
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| A serious problem with UK fused plugs is when you buy a
| device so inexpensive it ships with a molded, un-fused plug.
| Mostly I've had that with removable cords, which can be
| replaced, but still.
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| I recently bought a variac for testing some old audio gear,
| it had a Europlug but contained an adaptor for UK plugs.
| The only thing was despite having an ordinary metal earth
| pin the adaptor never actually made contact with the
| existing plug's earth connector. That could have been
| dodgy!
| Symbiote wrote:
| Those are probably illegal, and a general problem with
| anything you might buy from Ali Express etc.
| wongarsu wrote:
| The Schuko and Europlug have the same safety features as the
| British one:
|
| - the same shutters prevent screwdrivers
|
| - A plug half in isn't an issue because the sockets are
| recessed (but as an additional measure the Europlug has the
| half-way isolation like the British plug)
|
| The only real advantage of the British plug over Schuko is
| the fuse (a debatable feature) and the known polarity (Schuko
| and Europlug don't differentiate between live and neutral).
|
| Nice features that the Schuko variant has that the British
| plug is missing:
|
| - Ground connection is exposed in the socket, giving you an
| obvious way to reliably ground yourself (useful when working
| with electronics)
|
| - Recessed socket design allows plugs that barely stick out
| (those are not the norm, but are available for use behind
| furniture etc)
|
| - You have Schuko for "serious" use (ground wire, high
| current) and Europlug for things that don't need either, with
| Europlug fitting in Schuko outlets. This gives extension
| cords more flexibility, many have a mix of Schuko and
| Europlug outlets to fit more plugs in the same space.
| tentacleuno wrote:
| > The only real advantage of the British plug over Schuko
| is the fuse (a debatable feature)
|
| Could I ask why a fuse is debatable? Seems like quite a
| basic security feature. There's a good video[0] on the
| design of UK plugs if you're interested.
|
| [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q
| wongarsu wrote:
| If it's such a basic security feature, what is it
| actually protecting?
|
| In a standard (non-British) home, each room has a
| separate (10A or 16A) breaker in the breaker panel. That
| breaker protects the wires from overheating (preventing
| cable fires), and in more modern instances might protect
| the human from electric shock with an RCD. Then each
| device may have an internal (usually self-resetting) fuse
| to protect itself from failure modes. That fuse is tuned
| to the device needs, both in how fast it triggers and how
| much current it allows.
|
| What does a fuse in the cable buy you? It can't reliably
| protect the device, because the user might replace the
| cable or replace a blown fuse with one with a different
| rating. It can't protect wires because it's after the
| house wiring, a large number of functioning devices
| overheating your wires is at least as likely as a single
| malfunctioning device. The only context in which it makes
| sense it the one Tom Scott mentions: you have a copper
| shortage, so you put the entire flat or even house on one
| circuit with one fuse. And because you don't want to cut
| electricity to everything every time there's a short
| somewhere you put little fuses everywhere.
|
| It's a good design for the circumstances of post-war
| Britain, but we aren't living in a copper shortage right
| now.
| JetSetWilly wrote:
| Not everything has a 13 amp fuse in the plug. In fact
| most things have a 3 amp fuse unless they are kettles or
| something. There's also 5 amp fuses and it is possible
| (tho not that common these days) to have even a 1amp fuse
| in the plug itself.
|
| Surely it is better to have a lower amp fuse tailored to
| the device, than a high amperage fuse that's happy to
| send 3000 watts into your dodgy mobile phone charger
| without fusing.
| tentacleuno wrote:
| > What does a fuse in the cable buy you? It can't
| reliably protect the device, because the user might
| replace the cable or replace a blown fuse with one with a
| different rating.
|
| Ehh. While I see the logic in the rest of your argument,
| I don't see how being able to change the fuse means the
| device on the end of the fuse can not be reliably
| protected. If anything, being able to adjust the fuse to
| the needs of the device is even better, e.g. if you go
| from a high-load bulb to something like an LED. I'm not
| saying anyone runs around the house checking every fuse
| in every wire, but this does seem like a consideration
| you've not really made.
|
| > It can't protect wires because it's after the house
| wiring
|
| I don't see how it can't protect the wires, could you
| give an example? If a device with a 13A fuse is drawing
| over 3120W, the fuse will blow to protect the device
| itself and the house wiring. Could you elaborate on this,
| please?
|
| > so you put the entire flat or even house on one circuit
| with one fuse.
|
| Yeah, and we still use that system today. In most
| residential houses in Britain, we have a _main fuse_
| coming into the house. The rating of the fuse depends on
| what the house can take, e.g. 60A, 80A, or 100A. The main
| high amperage circuit in most homes in the UK would be
| the shower, which needs more than 3000W. Mine is a 6.5kW
| shower with 32A wiring (and the respective RCD).
|
| I personally think fuses in plugs also serve as a _common
| sense_ mechanism: if your computer monitor is drawing
| 13A, there 's obviously something wrong. That's where the
| fuse comes in. It's just another protection.
| iso1631 wrote:
| So you have a 16A fuse/breaker, and a wire that will take
| 16A. Then you plug in your lamp with a thin wire that can
| only take 3A. In the UK that's fine, as you have a 3A
| fuse, the lamp develops a fault and starts pulling 10A,
| the fuse blows, job done.
|
| Without that fuse though, the wire overheats, and you get
| a fire.
|
| Looking at the fairly new soldering iron plug next to me,
| with a 3A fuse that wire does not look anywhere near
| thick enough to qualify for passing 13A.
| Vinnl wrote:
| > Nice features that the Schuko variant has that the
| British plug is missing:
|
| It also doesn't land with the sharp side up, saving a whole
| lot of people from accidentally and painfully stepping on
| it.
| tentacleuno wrote:
| The UK plug is honestly one of the best things the UK has
| ever done. It's reliable, hard to pull out via the cable,
| running at a sensible voltage, and they just feel so sturdy.
| Rectangular contacts also hold a grip much better than round
| ones (in America and friends).
|
| I've heard horror stories about American plug sockets. It's
| just way too easy to shock yourself. And then you have all
| the other weirdness, like 240V on the grid being stepped down
| for 120V for appliances. Wouldn't it be easier (and more
| energy-efficient), to use 240V instead of stepping it down
| and having to pull more current at the appliance level to
| make up for the voltage?
| jakedata wrote:
| Here in the states we do not step 240v down to 120v.
| Typically a home has 240v split-phase service with 240v
| available L1 to L2 and 120v by using L1 or L2 to neutral.
| Our circuit breaker panels alternate L1 and L2 bus
| connections internally so a column of single breakers will
| alternate between L1 and L2 for balance while a double
| breaker will get 240v by connecting to both busses. A 240v
| double breaker has a physical connection between the trip
| levers so that an overload on either leg will trip both.
| kruador wrote:
| Relevant video: Technology Connections, "The US
| electrical system is not 120V", where there is a (long)
| discussion of how the breaker panel works and how you get
| 240V.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmUoZh3Hq4
| teddyh wrote:
| By the same definition, the European electrical system is
| not 240V, it's 380V.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Europe does not have split phase electrical service.
| Three-phase service is ultimately how the US system
| works, same as Europe; it's just that entire
| neighbourhoods or streets will run off a single 240 V
| phase rather than each house getting all three phases
| (industrial buildings commonly have three-phase service).
| jacquesm wrote:
| > Europe does not have split phase electrical service.
|
| This is incorrect in many places. Yes, you will have
| three phase electrical service pulled right into the
| distribution panel, but in many places all you will
| receive is a single phase because only one of the three
| possible fuses is installed.
|
| If you want three phase hookup you just pay your utility
| company a small fee, they come out to install the extra
| two fuses and in some cases they'll upgrade your
| consumption meter to three phase.
|
| > Three-phase service is ultimately how the US system
| works, same as Europe; it's just that entire
| neighbourhoods or streets will run off a single 240 V
| phase rather than each house getting all three phases
| (industrial buildings commonly have three-phase service).
|
| In the US plenty of the last leg of the distribution
| network is single phase, in the EU it is almost
| everywhere three phase, except for some rural areas in
| former East block countries. Typically a step down
| transformer will take the distribution voltage and reduce
| it to something the residents can use directly, houses
| are then alternating in which of the three fuses is
| placed (R/S/T) to ensure relatively even distribution of
| the load.
|
| Here you see a three phase domestic hookup (for instance
| because of an electric range):
|
| https://www.superflink.nl/media/wysiwyg/1-of-3-fase-
| aansluit...
|
| and here a single phase one:
|
| https://www.circuitsonline.net/forum/file/58210/forum-
| post
|
| In this case the 'S' leg of the transformer is used to
| power the dwelling.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| What you describe is not split phase. Split phase is
| where one 240V phase is split into two 120V legs offset
| 180deg, with a center-tapped 0V neutral.
| jacquesm wrote:
| See my comment elsewhere in this thread where I think I
| pretty much exhaustively treated the subject.
|
| And no, that particular version of 'split phase' is not
| +120V and -120V, this is not DC that we are talking
| about. Europe used to have a lot of that kind of split
| phase but we 'phased it out' to use a cheap pun.
|
| So now the term single phase is used to indicate what you
| typically get delivered to your house and we don't
| further subdivide it. This is good because it means you
| can run much thinner wire due to reduced current. You do
| get a bigger whack if you accidentally end up touching
| the phase or if there is an internal short in an
| ungrounded device that exposes that phase to the outside
| (this should never happen). In North America 240 V center
| tapped off a single drop transformer is the norm for
| residential delivery.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| I should have said two 120V legs offset 180deg.
| jacquesm wrote:
| That's accurate. In NL until the 70's we had two levels
| of delivery, 127V (phase to ground, transformer in 'star'
| configuration) and 220V (phase to phase, transformer in
| 'delta' configuration). The latter is interesting because
| it doesn't actually have a neutral wire at all.
|
| The former was close enough that you could get away with
| plugging in US or Japanese devices, but if there was
| anything synchronous in there you'd be out of luck (50 Hz
| vs 60 Hz). Then 220V became the standard and now it is
| all 240.
|
| Interesting tidbit: there was so much inertia from older
| systems that needed upgrading in this that it took until
| 2004 until the last of it (the 127->220V change) was
| finally done.
| jacquesm wrote:
| This is an incorrect interpretation of the differences
| between the two systems.
|
| In the EU the 380V (now nominally 400V) relates to tri-
| phase, the 240V to the voltage between a phase and
| ground.
|
| Tri-phase power in the United States is available to
| residential consumers and very light industry (say a
| small farm) at a number of different voltages up to 480V.
|
| The 240V in the united states is between two 'lives' that
| are both 120V and that are usually delivered on a center
| tapped transformer with the center being the neutral.
| Adding those two together gives you the 240V, but it all
| comes from a single phase, it's just a center tapped
| transformer with a 240V winding as the secondary.
|
| You can easily see this when you look at your typical
| drop transformer that will take a 10KV low voltage
| distribution line to domestic voltages, where three phase
| power is required you'll see three transformers in a
| bank, one for each phase. A typical residence will have
| only one because in North America single phase power is
| the norm for distribution.
|
| https://www.mytpu.org/wp-content/uploads/wires.jpg
|
| Is pretty typical in NA.
|
| So a typical drop will have a distribution neutral and a
| single distribution phase going in to the transformer and
| three wires coming back out: L1, N and L2 with L1 and L2
| being the outside legs of the winding. In your
| distribution panel you then add your residential ground.
| jacquesm wrote:
| bugfix: the 240V to the voltage between a phase and
| ground
|
| This is possible, but more likely is a phase-to-phase in
| a delta configured transformer. In that case there is no
| ground delivered to the distribution panel, just two
| phases (or three).
| tentacleuno wrote:
| > Here in the states we do not step 240v down to 120v.
| Typically a home has 240v split-phase service with 240v
| available L1 to L2 and 120v by using L1 or L2 to neutral.
|
| Ahh, thank you! I should have checked that point more
| thoroughly.
| Phemist wrote:
| I studied as an Erasmus student for a year in England. Every
| European student I knew had an "epiphany" moment where they
| realised that standard European plugs work on UK sockets, if
| you stick a pen in the ground "hole" to unlock the rest of the
| socket holes.
|
| Converters are a pain to use, they are always flimsy and there
| always too few available. It is usually not worth getting UK
| specific plugs for the short-ish duration of the Erasmus
| period.
|
| Safety and the increased fire hazard was, in our student-
| mindset, a small sacrifice for the convenience we got in
| return.
| Symbiote wrote:
| With the modern Europlug design, this tends to wreck the
| British sockets, as the prongs can get jammed.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| I like the Aus/NZ ones. Relatively compact like the North
| American ones, but very sturdy, in my opinion.
| robocat wrote:
| Two issues I have seen with the AU/NZ standards:
|
| 1. When they introduced the plastic sleeve on phase and
| neutral pins, it severely weakened the pins of the plug and
| they can rip off inside the socket. Very very unsafe.
|
| 2. The standards are very weak on cheap four way plugboards -
| the sockets fail over time and have a variety of failure
| modes, especially fire risk. Buy quality plugboards (although
| hard to judge as a consumer).
| pansa2 wrote:
| Compared to UK plugs, the Australian pins are very thin and
| the earth pin is optional. This makes it easy to insert a
| plug at a slightly wrong angle and make electrical contact
| without the socket gripping the plug at all.
|
| Also the pins can get bent out of alignment fairly easily,
| which almost never happens with UK plugs.
| stephen_g wrote:
| I'll agree the pins could have been made a bit thicker and
| they do bend a bit, say, if you step on them with shoes.
| But the earth pin is definitely _not_ optional - it is not
| present if a device is double insulated, but _must_ be
| present if the device is not (even though the live and
| neutral pins are angled so you can 't plug it in upside
| down, and the neutral is grounded in the switch box - you
| still have the separate protective earth pin on the cable
| to every device that needs it in case the wall socket is
| wired incorrectly).
|
| I'm not sure what you mean about plugging it at a slightly
| wrong angle, I haven't experienced that (in ~25 years of
| using Australia plugs).
| aembleton wrote:
| If the earth pin is not optional, how do you plug
| something in if it isn't present? Do you have special
| sockets for devices that are double insulated?
| stephen_g wrote:
| I mean not optional by certification and law, not
| physically, so no, we don't have different sockets - all
| sockets have earth, but it doesn't have a shuttering
| system like the UK's.
|
| A two pin plug still plugs into a regular socket, it's
| just illegal to produce or sell something without an
| earth pin if it doesn't meet safety standards for double
| insulation.
| OJFord wrote:
| We win on Earth, though. I'd be with you if Europlugs had a
| central Earth (still reversible) that was longer, making
| contact first & opening shutters as BS1363.
|
| Shame BS546 ('lighting circuit') sockets aren't (still) more
| common really. You could (buy a house with them or fit them
| and) replace plugs on cables of course, but not your USB
| charger with plug & transformer in a single moulding.
| ginko wrote:
| The ground contacts in Schuko plugs DO make contact first.
| It's just less obvious from the design I guess.
| afiori wrote:
| In the uk plugs the ground contact also acts as a switch;
| you actually can use an europlug with the uk sockets but
| you need insert something in the ground pin anyway (some
| sockets simply a plastic pin instead of a connector)
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| It does not act as a switch. The way it usually works, as
| mentioned by OJFord, is that wall sockets have safety
| shutters on the live and neutral connectors, which open
| when the earth pin is inserted in the earth connector in
| order to prevent a plug without earth from being
| connected. That's why sockets always have an earth pin
| even if only plastic on some cheap ones (for double
| insulated devices that do not require an earth
| connection).
|
| Pretty cool feature.
| OJFord wrote:
| I'm aware, but Schuko != Europlug (despite being a plug
| used in many Euro countries), does not have shutters on the
| live/neutral opened by Earth contact, and (partly
| consequently) can often be trivially (mis)used not Earthing
| a device which should be.
| tremon wrote:
| It isn't that trivial, as a device that should be earthed
| is not allowed to be sold with a Euro plug, they must
| have a Schuko plug. And likewise, an extension cord
| featuring Schuko sockets must have a Schuko plug, so
| there is officially no way to connect a Schuko device
| through a Euro plug.
|
| The real problem is with classic sockets as shown in [1]:
| these are two-pin (unearthed) sockets that can accept a
| Schuko plug nonetheless, and are widely used even in
| residential newbuilds, at least in NL. I think the
| building code has been updated now, but it's very common
| here to have entire rooms where the sockets don't even
| have a third wire in the wall box.
|
| [1] https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/ContEUR_part2.html
| jacquesm wrote:
| Correct, new installations are required to carry ground
| to all sockets, but old systems are grandfathered in with
| the exception that if you upgrade one of the sockets in a
| room to grounded you have to do it for all of them.
|
| To get really pedantic: you are allowed to put a device
| that normally requires a safety ground into a non-
| grounded ('old style') outlet but then that circuit
| should have ground fault protection installed and
| conversely, if you have a circuit (such as for instance
| an oven) that does not have a ground fault protector you
| _must_ use the ground.
|
| This covers a very large percentage of all normally
| occurring situations, though of course there will always
| be tricky ones due to rare combinations of devices and
| installation details.
|
| If you can play it safe: put ground fault protectors on
| all of your circuits except where leakage current is too
| high as a result of the consumers design and limit those
| to one consumer per circuit (dedicated circuit).
|
| This goes double for 'wet' spaces such as bathrooms,
| kitchens and so on, ground really is mandatory there from
| a safety perspective even if the code says it isn't, so
| if you still have ungrounded sockets in bathroom or
| kitchen add a ground if there is any reasonable way of
| doing so.
|
| In bathrooms the ground point can frequently be found
| behind the bathroom mirror over the sink. And don't be
| tempted to use the waterline, those are frequently made
| of plastic nowadays and no longer count as safety ground.
| OJFord wrote:
| Thanks for the correction, think I'm confusing [1]
| (memories of France ~20 years ago, and old houses then)
| with Schuko.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Almost all of the sockets installed today have these
| shutters integrated, you need to put something
| synchronously into both neutral and live to get them to
| open.
| [deleted]
| dvdkon wrote:
| I have to say I like the CEE 7/5 exposed ground, it's
| admittedly a niche use, but it's easy to touch and/or clip
| onto.
| aigo wrote:
| I"m doing by bit for those lighting sockets, I've just had
| about eight or ten installed all around my house. Turning on
| lamps from the wall light switch as you enter a room is a
| massive quality of life upgrade.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| Mobile phone adapters and other low power devices don't use
| the Earth even in Uk, they have a plastic prong there and you
| just get extra weight and bulk.
| jacquesm wrote:
| This goes for many devices that have an isolation
| transformer or equivalent in their primary circuitry.
| Beware of cheap knockoffs though, they will look the same
| but will lack that isolation and possibly the separation
| required to make such a device safely _and_ they won 't
| have ground. So if anything fails there the return path to
| earth will be you. Better hope you have a ground fault
| protector in place when that happens.
| dairylee wrote:
| Thankfully Google make collapsible plugs[1] which make taking
| my charger on holiday nice and painless. Shame more companies
| don't so something similar if the product is portable.
|
| 1: https://store.google.com/gb/product/usb_c_30w_charger
| dspillett wrote:
| I've had a plug like that from another manufacturer, and you
| can get them easily as after-market parts.
|
| It is a shame that the mu range by Made In Mind is dying, I
| have one of their USB2 models and it is rather convenient to
| pack. They are a tad expensive compared to others though.
| ginko wrote:
| I'd say if we could pick a clean slate design for everyone then
| I'd go with the Swiss[1] one. Maybe also run it at 400V since
| modern cables should be able to handle that.
|
| [1] https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Swiss1.html
| _djo_ wrote:
| The Swiss one was codified as an international standard as
| IEC 60906-1, which South Africa and Brazil have adopted, so
| it should be the de facto option for any country looking to
| replace their current system.
|
| The problem with replacing British plugs is that they need
| fuses because most British houses are wired with ring
| circuits, instead of radial circuits like the rest of the
| world. So I don't see them moving to a new standard any time
| soon.
| TorKlingberg wrote:
| Specifically most UK mains are fused at 30A, which is more
| than appliance cables are rated for. So you need a fuse in
| either the plug or the socket.
| _djo_ wrote:
| Thanks for that clarification!
| barrkel wrote:
| Wall warts of various kinds don't work well with the typical
| Swiss cluster of three sockets at 120 degree angles to each
| other. Frequently, various extenders need to be added to
| actually plug more than one thing into the cluster.
|
| Wires typically come out directly from the rear of the plug,
| making for a not particularly neat plug scenario. I find
| myself using 90-degree adapters a lot of the time.
|
| Extension bars also often take advantage of the reduced space
| requirements, meaning that many of the slots can't be used if
| you're plugging in any wall warts there.
|
| Finally, UK electricity is 13A @ 240V, whereas Swiss
| electricity - like most of continental Europe - is 10A @
| 220V. The gap here is significant when (a) you need to extend
| a socket because of space constraints, especially in the
| kitchen, and (b) when you want a fast-boiling kettle. I had
| to get a new kettle when I moved to Switzerland and it's
| noticeably slower to boil.
| MayeulC wrote:
| > Finally, UK electricity is 13A @ 240V, whereas Swiss
| electricity - like most of continental Europe - is 10A @
| 220V
|
| I wonder where you got this idea. Both are 230V. Schulko
| plugs are 10 or 16 amps (with bigger connectors), 16 A is
| quite common in my experience.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEE_7_standard_AC_plugs_and_s
| o...
|
| https://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/knowledge-base/what-is-the-
| dif...
|
| > EU 230V -10% +6% (i.e. 207.0 V-243.8 V)
|
| > UK 230V -6% +10% (i.e. 216.2 V - 253.0 V)
| dingo454 wrote:
| I really like this design due to how compact it is. Italy has
| an almost identical historical design*, but the earth is not
| offset so LN can be swapped.
|
| Both plugs and sockets are very compact, which is a far cry
| from the emerging standard which is the shuko/europlug which
| takes twice the space. Almost all new houses are equipped
| with shuko sockets.
|
| But the sockets here do not have the additional prong to
| avoid swapping the neutral, so they're effectively just a
| waste of space.
|
| * at least, we have two sizes for it, a smaller one rated for
| 8A, and the newer for 16A which we commonly have today.
| afiori wrote:
| In Italy in practice there are 4 common plugs, 2 type L
| (big and small), the schuko (type F) with many variations
| and the europlug.
|
| the compatibility table is not trivial (in particular the
| europlug is compatible with everithing except the big type
| L sockets) and while new houses might be to nicer
| standards, there are a lot of very old houses in italy (i
| lived in a house from ~1850) and many public spaces use the
| cheapest sockets they can find so you either get a small
| type L (accepts also europlugs) a simple schuko (accepts
| also europlugs and unhearthed small type L) or a big type L
| (accepts only big type L).
| dingo454 wrote:
| Oh I know, I lived in a old house as well and circled
| through europe so I've seen/suffered all the plugs from
| UK/France/Germany/Italy...
|
| In this regard, long live the "europlug" and the trend
| switching towards type F sockets.
|
| But I was just lamenting the bulkiness of it in general.
| hvusslax wrote:
| Is the BTicino plug
| (https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Italian2.html) used at
| all in Italy now? There was a serious attempt at adopting
| it in Iceland in the late 1970s to early 1980s. These
| sockets can still be found in homes that were built in
| that period and they are just called "Italian sockets".
| afiori wrote:
| Never seen such a plug before in my life, but I have
| spent very little time anywhere near Ticino
|
| In Italy I have mostly seen
| (https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Italian1.html) 1,2,4,5,
| schukos like 17a and when lucky schukos like 9 and 10; I
| have never seen most of the others.
| lukeh wrote:
| I have a vague memory of getting the Apple (two-pronged)
| Swiss and European travel kit plugs mixed up, slightly
| different tolerances, resulting in one very hard to remove
| iPhone charger.
| cardinalfang wrote:
| Similarly you can fit a UK shaver into a Europlug socket,
| but may not be able to get it out again.
| cranekam wrote:
| Another cool thing about the Swiss system is the derived 3
| phase T15/T25 plugs:
|
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Swiss_3hd.html
|
| Our washing machine uses a T15 plug but the socket can also
| accept a T12 single phase plug instead.
|
| (As a Brit, I'd also pick the Swiss plug as the best, except
| that the fuseless design wouldn't be good in the UK because
| of the 30A ring system described in another comment.)
| silon42 wrote:
| In Slovenia/ex-Yu we had a very similiar (but bigger) 3 phase
| (400V) plug/socket like that
| (https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Obsolete_3hd.html #9,10).
| You can still find it in old houses.
|
| One probably could force the Europlug into it (looks very
| close), I haven't tried.
| londons_explore wrote:
| In a clean slate design, I would have all power 5 volts
| unless negotiated higher.
|
| And it could be negotiated up to 100,000 volts for charging
| cars with a thin cool cable. 100,000 volts is perfectly safe
| as long as system capacitance is kept tiny, and leakage
| current constantly measured. In fact, the voltage of the
| sparks when you take off a fleece jumper are more than that.
| gswdh wrote:
| This would be a crazy system.
|
| How do you change the voltage from 5V to 100kV? A SMPS?
| What voltage do you supply to the SMPS? You want each
| socket to be able to supply 5V up to 100kV ~10kW for car
| charging? Have you seen the size of a 10kW SMPS!? For each
| socket!!!??? Do you need 10kW at 5V? I think the current
| system of medium power supply ability and a specific
| converter in the attached appliance as and when is needed
| makes more sense.
| 7952 wrote:
| Such a system would need a box in the basement and lots of
| seperate wires to outlets, which would be expensive. Or it
| would need to put more smarts in wall sockets, similar to
| adding USB. This is more of a safety risk than just
| plugging in a usb charger. It requires more skill to
| install, reduces seperation between high and low voltage
| parts, could become obselete and has components that might
| wear out. Also, any system that encourages the use of
| extension cables is a safety risk. The last thing we want
| is someone plugging a 5kw heater into an extension cord
| bought on Ebay.
|
| The current system is nice and flexible and simple enough
| to be safe. Extension cords work well when you are plugging
| in a bunch of usb devices and tv/laptop/console. But you
| can also use the same outlet for a hair dryer or a mixer.
| Higher current devices like ovens, showers, and cars need
| to be treated seperately to prevent unsuitable parts adding
| a fire risk. Lack of compatability to domestic appliances
| is a feature.
| londons_explore wrote:
| > The current system is [...] safe.
|
| Well, it kills 1000+ people per year in electrical fires
| in the USA alone. We would never allow electricity in
| homes like this if it were invented today.
|
| > Such a system would need a box in the basement and lots
| of seperate wires to outlets.
|
| Yes. But if high voltages can safely be used, and the
| system is safe in case a cable gets chafed, then the
| wires become super thin like headphone wires, and
| overall, the whole system could be produced cheaper than
| existing systems which use a lot of copper and plastic.
|
| Fire is eliminated too, because a high tech solution
| measures power losses at every connection, and as soon as
| enough is unaccounted for to possibly be heating
| something up to the point of a fire, it switches off.
|
| The main disadvantage is that every appliance or device
| needs circuitry to measure power flows. This is mitigated
| by the fact that voltage is variable - low power devices
| could simply run off 5 to 20 volts at sub-1-amp and not
| bother with any fancy measurement. Only high power stuff
| would need the high voltages and all the safety
| circuitry.
| robocat wrote:
| 10's of milliamps can kill you, and powerboard RCDs are
| set at 30mA trip. The extra insulation is mostly to
| protect you from shock.
|
| I suspect the risk of fire very thin wires and AC voltage
| is fairly low - the wires will burn out before there is
| much of a fire risk.
| smcl wrote:
| As a Brit living in the EU, I kinda miss the ones back home -
| for two reasons, the grip and the orientation. I don't know
| anything about relative safety of either, this is purely about
| UX :)
|
| The UK plugs usually have a very clear way to grip them and
| pull them out of the socket, and yanking them by the cable
| neither looks _nor_ feels right. Whereas the Europlug ones I
| have mostly have a very dainty, slight place to grip with your
| fingers and are often _very_ tight - often they really invite
| you to pull by the cable itself.
|
| There's a little bit of ambiguity about orientation - sometimes
| the socket has an extra prong sticking out meaning you have to
| use the plug the right way up, and sometimes there's none. But
| it can sometimes happen that you're not sure if you're a few
| degrees out in aligning the prongs in the plug, or if you're
| just the wrong way up and the earth prong is in the way.
| Obviously if you can see the socket this isn't a huge issue,
| but if you're reaching behind a TV unit, or a desk or a counter
| etc you're in for a bit of fumbling.
|
| I have a similar feeling around lightswitches - the European
| ones are large, delicate and a little flimsy and the UK ones
| are little and compact and feel solid. I think it's not allowed
| to have the UK switches here, which is a shame otherwise I'd
| fit out my flat with them :)
|
| update: oh speaking of switches I completely forgot that power
| sockets generally _also_ have an on /off switch in the UK. I
| guess it comes down to personal preference but I liked having
| the extra "off" switch for reasons that I can't quite
| articulate
| adders wrote:
| Yes, the Brit plugs are great until you step on them in the
| night
|
| Funny comparison of different plugs from a few years ago
| https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/plug-versus-plug/
| cameronh90 wrote:
| Who just leaves plugs lying around on the floor though?
| smcl wrote:
| To be honest unexpectedly stepping on any plug that's lying
| around on the floor is pretty unpleasant :)
| simondotau wrote:
| Yes but the UK plug has a high likelihood of idling with
| its prongs pointing up, a characteristic not shared with
| most other plug designs. As painful as it is to step on
| the side of a plug, stepping directly on the prongs is
| worse.
| ponyous wrote:
| European living in England, I really dislike the English
| ones. I got shocked once because it was so hard to pull out I
| had to use both hands and accidentally touched both pins at
| the same time...
|
| I prefer both plugs and switches in Europe. Probably for the
| same reasons as you - I grew up with them, and they feel
| right.
| cjrp wrote:
| That's where the off switch on the socket should be used;
| another handy design feature!
| rxt_ian wrote:
| The live prongs are insulated to such a length you should
| not be able to touch any conductive part before the plug is
| no longer making electrical contact with the socket.
|
| It's likely you got a small zap from a filtering capacitor
| inside the device that had not yet discharged.
| ponyous wrote:
| I am not an expert and the shock didn't feel as bad as I
| expected so you are probably right.
| iso1631 wrote:
| If it was a genuine plug, but there are non-genuine plugs
| around which aren't insulated (as well as ones with an
| insulated Earth!). If the plug was older than 1984 it
| could even have been genuine, as insulation wasn't
| required until then.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| As an European who's travelled and now lives in the UK I find
| that the British plugs and sockets are the best ones.
|
| The metal connectors are big, but that feels like quality, but
| the plugs are not bulky off the wall because of the overall
| angled design (European plugs actually eat up more space off
| the wall because they are straight although of course europlugs
| take much less surface area on the wall), which is good behind
| furnitures or where space is tight. There is only one sort of
| plug and it has a well designed earth connector. Plugs include
| a fuse and it's easily replaceable (this is partly due to the
| standard use of ring circuits in the UK but I find it a nice
| feature anyway). They have very good grip and stay in place
| very well (compare this to europlug...). Sockets have an
| integrated switch.
|
| British plugs are a quiet success (the other one being
| postcodes).
| ginko wrote:
| I disagree, way overengineered and bulky. The fuse is only
| necessary due to shoddy British wiring standards.
| BerislavLopac wrote:
| > The fuse is only necessary due to shoddy British wiring
| standards
|
| In other words, they're solving a very real problem here.
| And so is the rest of the plug as well.
|
| It seems that most of the continental Europeans that have
| moved to the UK (myself included) are positively amazed by
| the details of the UK plug design.
| barrkel wrote:
| The area around Swiss sockets are more bulky in practice
| because (a) wires come out at 90 degrees to the wall and
| (b) adapters and extensions and whatnot are required to
| plug in wall-warts, which are really common these days,
| whether it's USB power for various gadgets, cordless vacuum
| cleaners, video Alexa (not USB-powered), etc.
| quietbritishjim wrote:
| > the plugs are not bulky off the wall because of the overall
| angled design
|
| Not only that, also gravity pulling on the cable naturally
| tends to pull European and North American plugs out of their
| sockets, whereas this angled design in UK plugs prevents
| that.
| fooblat wrote:
| Gravity is a problem for N American plugs but not for Euro
| or Schucko plugs in Schucko sockets. This is what they have
| in Germany and the Netherlands. The plugs fit in snugly and
| do not move. If you don't push in enough to "lock" in then
| a spring (or something) pushes the plug back out. So it is
| very obvious when it is in correctly and basically can't be
| partially plugged in. Gravity has no impact on the plugs in
| my house whatsoever.
|
| The Schucko plug/socket system is very robust, safe, and
| well designed.
| [deleted]
| londons_explore wrote:
| The variety here with no clear benefits/market niche for each
| shows how wasteful we humans are with our innovation efforts.
|
| I'm sure many human-lifetimes went into developing and deploying
| every type of plug and socket there. Could those human lifetimes
| have been better spent inventing something actually new rather
| than something pretty much the same as a neighbour was also
| inventing?
| kortex wrote:
| Oh good, they depict the NEMA family in the correct orientation.
| >95% of installations depict the "face orientation", which is
| partially responsible for USA outlet's bad rap.
|
| Cons:
|
| - plugs are more likely to fall out or come loose
|
| - flat things can fall on the blades
|
| Pros:
|
| - it looks like a face! D=
|
| Orienting the ground pin up helps keep the plug secured (think
| about the moment of rotation of the plug) and if it does come
| loose, the ground pin prevents something from falling and
| bridging the hot pins.
|
| NEMA-5-15 gets a bad rap for being "loose" for a few reasons:
|
| - the incorrect orientation (see above)
|
| - the abysmal 1-15 outlet (no ground, even less retention,
| especially with wall warts)
|
| - travelers staying in hotels with wallowed out receptacles that
| see daily use and need replacing. It doesn't help that they use
| the cheap ones with low spring force to begin with
|
| Those infernal bedside lamp outlets are the trifecta of terrible:
| every hotel seems to have them, they are all cheap 1-15s that
| were loose when new and only deteriorated over time.
|
| Properly installed NEMA-5-15R outlets of middling-to-good-quality
| never fall out on their own and feel very secure, even years
| later.
|
| There's one feature I wish the NEMA non-locking series had:
| partially insulated contacts. Even just a few mm would help.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Interesting. Do you know if the danish plug is supposed the be
| ground pin up or cutie face orientation?
| kortex wrote:
| Dunno, but those are adorable! I think it is less of an issue
| because it is recessed.
| dustintrex wrote:
| Check out the twist-to-lock sockets in Japan! Super common there,
| but I've never seen these in the US, even though the plug is
| basically identical.
|
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Japan1.html
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Twist lock receptacles exist in the US, I mostly see them used
| for server racks.
|
| NEMA L6-30R is a locking 208/240v 30 amp receptacle. L means
| locking, the 6 means two hots and a ground at 208v or 240v,
| (240v for 240v split phase and 208v for 208v 3p wye) 30 is amp
| max amps, R means receptacle.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector
| merlyn wrote:
| That is the most common in datacenters, but there are other
| configurations. 3-phase power is becoming common. Some
| others.
|
| Twistlocks are also used a lot in Theater lighting, and
| movie/tv production.
|
| Also, some generators.
|
| But yes, in general, not so common for residential, and only
| certain commercial tasks.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I must say that the Type K 107-2-D1 from Denmark looks like quite
| the happy little plug. The Type I from Australia looks a bit
| surprised while the Type F from Germany looks quit robotic. For
| some reason, the Type A/B from N.America seems to be standing on
| its head.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| _For some reason, the Type A /B from N.America seems to be
| standing on its head._
|
| The convention, now, seems to be to put the ground pin on top.
| I am not entirely sure when that became the convention,
| however, as it seemed to be the other way around when I was a
| child (with the ground pin on the bottom). I think I was a
| teenager when I started seeing the sockets installed "upside
| down."
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Where are you? In Canada, I've never seen outlets installed
| ground-up.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| In Canada, I've frequently seen outlets installed ground
| up: usually in newer buildings and more often in commercial
| buildings than residences. I have been told that ground up
| is the "correct" way, but I am not trained as an
| electrician.
|
| EDIT: Upon googling, I can find lots of conflicting
| opinions, but it appears that the electrical code has
| nothing to say about it. They can be installed in any
| orientation: ground up, down, or sideways.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I've seen some houses where some outlets were controlled
| via switch. Those plugs were installed upside down to
| indicate switched control while all other plugs in the
| house were installed in the ground down orientation.
| rascul wrote:
| The plugs don't come out of the socket as easily on their own
| when upside down. There are other reasons, but having had way
| too many plugs come out on their own, this is the biggest one
| I notice.
| ucosty wrote:
| I've heard it's a safety thing, in some contexts, as the
| grounding pin is in the way if something gets dropped onto
| the plug.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Is it realy a convention? I see it so rarely that to me it's
| more like a situation where someone did it "wrong", and then
| someone new learned from it snowballing into a thing.
|
| Also, wall warts are also required to have all of their
| weight above the plug in the ground on top orientation.
| That's never worked well for me.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| From a sample of five random wall warts in my drawer, none
| of them are polarised, so they can be plugged in either
| orientation. YMMV.
|
| EDIT:
|
| _Is it realy a convention?_
|
| I was told so, but after googling, I am beginning to doubt
| it. It may have been a short lived thing.
| dylan604 wrote:
| What's a polarized plug got to do with it? All of the
| weight of the wall wart is above the plug vs hanging.
| I've had more issues in this orientation of the plug
| pulling out of the socket than when it is hanging from
| the plug. Even when the ground pin is on the bottom, if I
| put 2 wall warts on the same plug, one of them must be
| inverted to have both fit. The one upside down always has
| issues.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| Everything? If the plug isn't polarised, the wall wart
| can hang down from the socket regardless of the position
| of the ground pin. It will literally plug in either way.
| I'm not sure what your complaint is.
| silvestrov wrote:
| The Danish hospital plug looks like somebody who is sick:
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Danish2.html
| paganel wrote:
| > from Denmark looks like quite the happy little plug
|
| Your comment reminded me that as a kid (3-4 years old and even
| a little older) I used to, in a sort, anthropomorphise a power
| plug which I used to find very nice-looking and of course that
| I would play with it. It was driving my dad crazy, for good
| reasons (I actually did manage to get electrocuted at 3 years
| old while playing with another plug), but somehow I survived.
| All this to say, not so tongue in cheek (or only partly), that
| we should maybe strive to make angry and ugly plugs as much as
| possible.
| BBC-vs-neolibs wrote:
| Or neutral and boring looking, or you would just attract
| another sub-set of kids playing with the angry plugs.
| nofunsir wrote:
| "no cookies"
|
| What a breath of fresh air!
| sandermvanvliet wrote:
| The very Web 1.0 style is indeed very refreshing
| jsmith99 wrote:
| Nice to see an image map in the wild again.
| thaeli wrote:
| Has Google Analytics on it though, so..
| yuchi wrote:
| That (GA and no cookie banner) and the fact that doesn't use
| a mailto link in order to avoid email harvesting means it was
| built in a different time and just maintained for survival
| marcodiego wrote:
| The front page says: "no cookies no password required".
| Bookmarked!
| ricardobeat wrote:
| The pictures for plugs from Brazil are not accurate. The majority
| of the 10A, 4mm plugs have sleeved outer contacts, just like the
| IEC standard pictured from South Africa. In conjunction with the
| recessed outlet, it makes it impossible to touch a live contact.
| _djo_ wrote:
| It's a little out of date, South Africa has mandated IEC 60906-1
| (SANS 164-2) on all new installations for some time now,
| replacing the huge old BS 546 (SANS 164-1) socket.
|
| Incidentally, IEC 60906-1 was designed to be a new global plug
| standard but almost no countries want to go through the trouble
| of changing their own standards to adopt it. The Brazilian
| implementation is also not 100% compatible any more.
| kozak wrote:
| IEC 60906-1 is great, obviously the best of them all
| (considering all the legacy). I see that India uses a similar
| standard as the old South Africa plug. Why doesn't India do the
| same and migrate to IEC 60906-1? If I were Indian, I'd start
| campaigning for that.
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(page generated 2021-11-25 23:02 UTC)