[HN Gopher] Vestaboard - A smart display to connect and inspire
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       Vestaboard - A smart display to connect and inspire
        
       Author : duck
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2021-11-24 05:22 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vestaboard.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vestaboard.com)
        
       | dcminter wrote:
       | I was looking at these the other day - in the process of browsing
       | around the subject I found this maker-project to create custom
       | ones:
       | 
       | https://github.com/scottbez1/splitflap
        
         | scottbez1 wrote:
         | Let me know if you have any questions about the project or
         | split-flaps in general!
         | 
         | I built a big one for a City of Palo Alto art festival recently
         | which was a lot of work but really rewarding:
         | https://youtu.be/g9EPabcxBsM
         | 
         | There were some comments about the Vestaboard cost elsewhere in
         | this thread so I figured I'd mention, my raw BOM cost for that
         | display (108 modules, 40 characters each) was about $2700, so I
         | actually don't find their pricing _that_ crazy when you
         | consider what 's happening mechanically inside the display.
         | (short video from inside mine: https://youtu.be/4rBKxy0gwNI)
         | 
         | They're not completely comparable of course - my display was a
         | one-off build without economies of scale from stamped or
         | injection-molded parts, much larger physically, and I had
         | substantial parts of it manufactured in the US - but generally
         | there's just a lot of pieces that add up quickly in cost.
        
           | dcminter wrote:
           | For me personally it was mostly idle curiosity of a "what
           | would it take..." kind, but it's a very nice write up!
        
       | tjwds wrote:
       | Fastmail has one of these in the entryway to our Philadelphia
       | office. It's been a lot of fun playing with the API -- so far,
       | we've made an integration with our company's chatbot [1] to
       | manage "board tokens" [2] which allow folks to post to it
       | (without clobbering each other's designs); a web UI to create
       | designs which can be posted using the bot; and a 'vesta show'
       | command, which creates a composite image of each cell of the
       | board to represent the current board state (e.g. [3]) so that our
       | colleagues in Australia and elsewhere can participate.
       | 
       | It's a lot of fun!
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/fastmail/synergy
       | 
       | [2] Token in the "arcade token" sense, not "authorization token"
       | 
       | [3] https://dev.joewoods.dev/img/vesta-show-20211124.png -- note
       | my sloppy normalization of the brightness of the cells
        
         | mmcclimon wrote:
         | Just to second this...Joe has done lots of great work at
         | Fastmail, but 'vesta show' might be my favorite.
        
       | vander_elst wrote:
       | Solari [0] was once one of the leading companies in this sector.
       | Their boards were all over the place. They are struggling now to
       | keep it up with the new technologies.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.solari.it/
        
         | agys wrote:
         | We sourced some Solari alphanumeric split flap elements from
         | the Roma termini train station... they are a beautiful piece of
         | engineering!
        
       | tiepoul wrote:
       | Is this programmable? Like you're going to change the text for
       | this specific time frame and return to the original text after
       | the programmed schedule?
        
       | tibyat wrote:
       | For that price you could glue 8 ipads to your wall and still have
       | enough left over to rent out a giant billboard downtown if all
       | you want is to send someone a cute message.
        
       | djbusby wrote:
       | I know three people who have these. They never let the kids near
       | them, complain about the price. How to have fun with it?
        
       | Gys wrote:
       | > "I am always very happy with the team from Vestaboard when
       | we're in touch." Wolfgang Florke, Germany
       | 
       | It is meant as a recommendation but I wonder why he in touch with
       | them often? It should just work?
        
       | Kaibeezy wrote:
       | The split-flap board by Solari di Udine at the TWA Hotel at JFK
       | is fantastic. The building was designed by the famous architect
       | Eero Saarinen and opened in 1962.
       | 
       | http://blog.solarilineadesign.com/en/a-touch-of-italian-desi...
        
       | willeh wrote:
       | While certainly beautiful, this type of needlessly contrived
       | product is a waste of our natural resources. Buyers need to ask
       | themselves is this a morally defensible use of resources, would
       | and LCD be better would e-Ink be better or should we just go
       | without.
        
         | Chris2048 wrote:
         | What natural resources are being wasted, IYHO?
        
         | pdav wrote:
         | Why stop there? Buyers should ask themselves if they need or
         | want anything at all. The responsible course of action would be
         | to buy and use nothing--after all, we wouldn't want to
         | accidentally pollute more than all the fossil fuel industry or
         | something.
        
           | kuratkull wrote:
           | Well, this is a toy we are talking about, it's not something
           | you _need_ by any stretch of the imagination.
        
             | pdav wrote:
             | You're right of course, but my point is that you can
             | endlessly chastise people for buying things they do not
             | strictly need under the guise of "not being wasteful" but
             | it comes off as crotchety. Let people enjoy things.
        
             | DocTomoe wrote:
             | Ultimately, anything above basic necessities (food,
             | shelter, clean drinking water) are toys, or supporting the
             | creation of toys.
        
           | Angostura wrote:
           | I mean, yes. I think you are trying to be ironic, but reduce,
           | reuse, recycle is in that order for a reason.
        
       | kensai wrote:
       | I like it, but the price is simply too much for most personal
       | uses. Post a news entry again when it is around EUR500-600, if
       | ever.
        
         | gregoriol wrote:
         | You most likely don't want such a device at home: it likely
         | makes quite a lot of noise, takes quite a lot of space, and is
         | not really useful as an individual. Its use-case is more for a
         | public/semi-public space, for a group of people to see.
        
       | im_down_w_otp wrote:
       | Blargh. I went to the site, saw what it was, immediately wanted
       | one, clicked the "Shop" button, saw the price, sighed deeply, and
       | closed the tab.
       | 
       | I can understand why it's so expensive, it just bums me out that
       | I can't justify said expense.
        
         | lovelyviking wrote:
         | Don't worry, I think terminal would work poorly with it and
         | even then 22x6 only? not too many
        
         | nanis wrote:
         | > Order two Vestaboard displays and receive $400 off.
         | 
         | I saw that before my eyes located the price and I knew :-)
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | This is really cool. I saw they emphasized that they were a
       | winner of the "Red Dot Design Award" so I looked up the Red Dot
       | award to find more cool products.
       | 
       | However, the Red Dot website shows 16,844 "winners" in the
       | Product Design category over the past 10 years (Source:
       | https://www.red-dot.org/search ).
       | 
       | Then I looked at their Fee Structure page, which shows
       | registration costs betweene 300 and 650 Euros. You also have to
       | send them the product (for free, of course). If you "win" you
       | have to buy the 3950 Euro "Winner Package": https://www.red-
       | dot.org/pd/participate
       | 
       | Not a bad business for them. Kind of funny to brag about this
       | pay-to-play award on your website, though.
        
         | Psillisp wrote:
         | > Kind of funny to brag about this pay-to-play award on your
         | website, though.
         | 
         | That is why the award exists.
        
       | Cthulhu_ wrote:
       | Huh, interesting; flip boards like these used to be all over
       | things like train stations, but they had to replace them with
       | screens (big challenge, they deal with extreme weather /
       | temperatures) after the company that made and maintained them
       | went under and they ran out of spare / replacement parts.
        
         | duiker101 wrote:
         | I wonder what's the maintenance cost on these, both in terms of
         | time, money and skill required. 8448 flaps is a lot of moving
         | parts.
        
           | wink wrote:
           | Some years ago our local chapter of the CCC got hold of some
           | old flipdot panels that originally hung over the Autobahn[0]
           | and they've since been repurposed and with the help of other
           | spaces improved for display, pics at [1] and you might have
           | stumbled over them at the Chaos Communication Congress or
           | other events.
           | 
           | They're actually pretty robust and most obvious malfunctions
           | can be rejiggered manually and it's just one of the magnets.
           | 
           | But yes, the replacement parts are kinda finite unless
           | another stash of old traffic sign hardware is discovered.
           | 
           | [0]: https://wiki.muc.ccc.de/flipdot:start#einfuehrung
           | 
           | [1]: https://wiki.muc.ccc.de/flipdot:start
        
       | agys wrote:
       | We worked on several split-flap art projects: mostly with sourced
       | pieces...
       | 
       | We managed to get our hands on the old main display of the Zurich
       | train station (a beast of 7 tonnes). Most of the elements aren't
       | alphanumeric but larger words with the destination and departure
       | station names written entirely. The readability was excellent as
       | the text was silkscreened on the PVC blades.
       | 
       | We reprogrammed it and created a choreography without altering
       | the elements (we just measured the "width" of each word to be
       | used as graphical elements) [1]
       | 
       | The new display in the station is now obviously LED based and has
       | many graphical errors and a much sloppier layout (mimicking the
       | old one). The worst part is that now 1/4 of the panel surface is
       | dedicated to advertisement... [2]
       | 
       | [1] https://vimeo.com/224913612
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zuerich_HB_tabellone...
        
         | agys wrote:
         | Assembly time-lapse at the museum [1]. The elements just slide
         | into place... They can be pulled out for maintenance even when
         | the display is running.
         | 
         | [1] https://vimeo.com/220072274
        
         | hobo_mark wrote:
         | Ah, MuDA! Too sad the place shut down before I ever had the
         | chance to visit...
        
         | sorokod wrote:
         | [1] is awesome!
        
         | xtiansimon wrote:
         | RARARARA.. Brilliant. Such physicality and noise. I wish I
         | could be there to experience it.
         | 
         | I live in the NYC metro area and PENN station changed their
         | display in 2017.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/nyregion/penn-station-dep...
         | 
         | Looking for the date, I found this nice article about an Amtrak
         | sign in Baltimore which was replaced in 2010:
         | 
         | https://www.baltimoresun.com/features/bs-xpm-2010-03-22-bal-...
         | 
         | _"In January, Penn Station said goodbye to the old sign - known
         | as a Solari board after the Italian company that introduced the
         | machines in the 1950s. Like so many other familiar inventions
         | of the Industrial Age, the flip-flapping signboards are going
         | the way of the steam engine in rail stations around the
         | world..."_
        
           | agys wrote:
           | To clarify: the split-flap elements used by the Swiss railway
           | (SBB/CFF/FFS) were produced by Omega Electronics and had the
           | controlling hardware embedded on each element, controlled via
           | RS-485; the older Solaris needed an external controller that
           | drove the stepper motors.
        
         | subpixel wrote:
         | Wow, those sounds bring back memories of traveling Europe by
         | train in the 80s. Is it just me or do I smell some stale urine
         | and some pretzels?
        
       | treyfitty wrote:
       | What use case does this try to solve for? "Connect and Inspire"
       | sounds hand wavy, generous, and quite frankly cheesy. There are
       | many ways to connect and inspire, and a board with many flipping
       | pieces doesn't sound like a solution.
       | 
       | This product sounds like it's just a nostalgic gadget more than
       | anything.
        
         | leokennis wrote:
         | Looking at the site, the use case seems mostly "hip and
         | happening company with too much money who want to display some
         | text for all the office to see but think a cheap flatscreen tv
         | looks too cheap".
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | I'm no hipster, and there is a non-zero amount of "charm" (or
           | whatever you want to call it) in a display like this.
           | 
           | plat panel LED or LCD displays look like shit in bright
           | environments; these would look amazing.
        
           | tomtheelder wrote:
           | A less dismissive characterization might be that it's a piece
           | of tech art.
           | 
           | I really don't think people are buying these because they
           | have some text they desperately need to display...
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | i would love to have one in my office.
         | 
         | We raise money for political campaigns, could show in near real
         | time how much we're raising. Maybe even show top campaigns or
         | staff.
         | 
         | But that would buy a laptop, and most of our (relatively few)
         | staff don't even come into our office anymore!
         | 
         | A large TV could maybe do both actual real time every second
         | update and maybe splice in some news feed or something.
         | 
         | Alas it's just like seeing the amazing Apple monitor. Then look
         | at price and think rationally; it's not worth it by how much
         | money I make.
        
         | unstatusthequo wrote:
         | Yes. I plan to put one in our house more as "tech art" than
         | anything else.
        
       | controlweather wrote:
       | Stupid crap imo
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | >"With its feet on the ground but eyes affixed upward, the
       | Vestaboard is a beautiful combination of past and future."
       | 
       | I'm trying to find purchase information for the model with the
       | feet because our walls are not very strong, I would like to have
       | a standing support.
        
       | stevesearer wrote:
       | Oat Foundry is another company which makes split flap displays:
       | https://www.oatfoundry.com/split-flap/
        
       | mronetwo wrote:
       | Would love to get one. Would love to get one for almost 3kEUR?
       | Ooof, I don't think so.
       | 
       | Devices that have some physicality to it are always super cool
       | (flip dots). That also makes them very expensive. Super happy to
       | see products like these though.
        
         | afandian wrote:
         | There's a weird scale thing. Lots of moving parts in a
         | mechanical display? Expensive. Lots of microscopic parts that
         | can only be assembled in a clean room by machines in special
         | locations? Cheap. I guess it's only economy of scale that makes
         | the difference, but still mind blowing.
        
       | ProjectBarks wrote:
       | I own one and here are my thoughts:
       | 
       | So far it has been an extremely reliable product that was fun to
       | get some scripts running on. I use a raspberry pie with a cron
       | job to update the board with the weather and my daily schedule.
       | Board actually looks extremely repairable for each individual
       | character, and have has no issues with reliability in ~6mo.
       | 
       | API currently is through a rest interface which they have
       | promised to keep free despite charging for plugins shared through
       | their a subscription model. They had promised a native/local API
       | but I have not heard anything from that.
       | 
       | Overall would recommend but it falls in the tech art category for
       | sure.
        
         | lokar wrote:
         | How often can/should you update it? Can you use it as a clock?
        
           | ProjectBarks wrote:
           | I use it as an hourly clock but anymore than every half hour
           | would be a miserable experience since it is far from silent.
        
         | alias_neo wrote:
         | At this price, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot barge pole
         | until local API is a reality.
         | 
         | If their servers shutdown and it becomes abandonware you want
         | to be sure it's still functional when you're spending a little
         | more than "toy money".
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Jesus, no kidding. Only a two year warranty, too? For $3,000
           | USD you might think you'd get a little more for your money...
        
             | mobilemidget wrote:
             | I was scrolling and thought I want one... now I don't :D
        
               | boringg wrote:
               | Sounds like a sweet corporate office buy at that price
               | unfortunately. Cool tech art though!
        
           | ProjectBarks wrote:
           | Agreed it is a solid risk. I want to spend some time with
           | wireshark to see if I can get something of my own going until
           | an official local api is released.
        
             | alias_neo wrote:
             | I take it the device has WiFi? It would be interesting to
             | see what kind of controller hardware is inside.
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | > $2,850
           | 
           | Whoa. And they advertise putting this in your house for your
           | family? You could buy multiple really nice TVs for that kind
           | of money.
        
       | Brendinooo wrote:
       | The font seems a little thin for what it is, no? It's hard to say
       | for sure without seeing on in person, but I'd have probably
       | picked something bolder.
        
         | ProjectBarks wrote:
         | I own one. No issues with readability. In fact I'd say it's
         | easier to read than most fonts. Online pictures don't do it
         | justice.
        
       | jonnydubowsky wrote:
       | This looks beautiful. I love analog tile boards. My favorite
       | greeted the students at NYU ITP every day, a wooden tile "mirror"
       | by Daniel Rozin. https://youtu.be/kV8v2GKC8WA
        
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