[HN Gopher] End of Support for Firefox Lockwise
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       End of Support for Firefox Lockwise
        
       Author : tfehring
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2021-11-23 19:02 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (support.mozilla.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (support.mozilla.org)
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | Another Mozilla project bites the dust.
       | 
       | You have one job: Build Firefox. Drop the side projects.
        
         | jagger27 wrote:
         | Unless the side projects have a future version of Firefox in
         | mind.
        
       | antback wrote:
       | But to access the same functionality with Firefox in android I
       | have to go into 3 levels of menus or I'm wrong. Very annoying ...
        
         | mosselman wrote:
         | Installing a separate app and signing in on it sounds a lot
         | more cumbersome
        
           | krzyk wrote:
           | It is one time install, and signing in just after restart.
           | used for autocomletion in apps. With just firefox I won't
           | have that.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tomrod wrote:
       | Very unfortunate. I've appreciated Lockwise for syncing between
       | desktop and mobile. The FF mobile Android app has been a hot mess
       | since at least last summer when their UX update rolled out.
       | 
       | I so want to support Mozilla but their moves always seem to be
       | anti-power user. Oh well.
       | 
       | Any recommendations? I'm looking at NordPass but would love to
       | hear about other alternatives.
        
         | alpsne wrote:
         | I switched to Bitwarden and I have been very happy with their
         | service.
        
       | andoli wrote:
       | I know I'm being a bit naive, but I trusted them more than any
       | other random "free as in beer" password manager service...I
       | didn't mind too much the rather miserable mobile experience, as
       | long as it got the job done.
       | 
       | That's bad Mozilla. Lockwise was the reason I started donating.
        
         | kunagi7 wrote:
         | It's sad to see a simple password manager go. Even if it's
         | integrated inside Firefox most users will probably look
         | elsewhere (Bitwarden, Keepass). I use the later, the file db
         | works great and its easy to move between devices when needed.
         | 
         | Also, donations to Mozilla go to the foundation instead of the
         | corporation. The only way to give them some useful money is
         | paying for the services they sell like the VPN service (but
         | also don't forget that Mozilla is just a Mullvad reseller).
        
       | MyStckRnnthOvr wrote:
       | It would be really great if, when announcing the deprecation with
       | a firm date, they would also announce a firm (preferably earlier)
       | date for the replacement iOS Firefox functionality.
        
       | rubyist5eva wrote:
       | Happy 1password customer, Bitwarden is also pretty great. Dont'
       | depend on a single browser vendor for this stuff.
        
       | notRobot wrote:
       | I am not happy about this. I like having the standalone Lockwise
       | app on my Android phone as a password manager.
       | 
       | When the app is discontinued, will I still be able to use
       | autofill in other apps?
       | 
       | And what about the apps where autofill doesn't work? Having to
       | open my browser for every password I need to copy on my phone
       | just seems clunky and stupid.
       | 
       | I'm so fucking sick of Mozilla breaking their UX flows for every
       | damn thing. Just keep the app!
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | > Also, having to open my browser for every password I need to
         | copy on my phone just seems clunky and stupid.
         | 
         | You don't (at least for Android), the functionality of Lockwise
         | appears to have been replicated in Firefox. There's a toggle in
         | the logins and passwords settings section of Firefox to allow
         | it to fill in passwords for other apps.
         | 
         | Apparently they're rolling it out in iOS next month, according
         | to the article (as jdlshore pointed out).
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | Fantastic! I never liked having another app for passwords so
           | I removed lockwise as soon as Firefox (the new one) got
           | password support but was never aware that it grew autofill
           | support!
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | I'm not sure how great this is, though, from a security
             | perspective. When I select Firefox as my autofill provider
             | on Android, I get this message:
             | 
             | > "Make sure you trust this app"
             | 
             | > "Firefox Beta uses what's on your screen to determine
             | what can be autofilled."
             | 
             | So, unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like the OS gives the
             | selected app special privileges to read what's on the
             | screen (at all times?). I would much rather have a
             | standalone, single-purpose app doing this than a gigantic
             | browser. The former is much easier to secure.
        
         | alimbada wrote:
         | Same. I use Lockwise on iOS. The tone of the email I've just
         | received about this from Mozilla makes it sound as if they've
         | done something wonderful and they're giving themselves a pat on
         | the back which is even more maddening.
        
         | graton wrote:
         | > When the app is discontinued, will I still be able to use
         | autofill in other apps?
         | 
         | Yes on Android, I have no knowledge of iOS. Just go into the
         | Settings -> Logins and Passwords -> Autofill in other apps.
        
         | rwky wrote:
         | >When the app is discontinued, will I still be able to use
         | autofill in other apps?
         | 
         | Thankfully it appears it will work
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29322019
        
       | KennyBlanken wrote:
       | For anyone looking to stay on an open source solution: Keepass
       | databases, synced using whatever sync tool floats your boat
       | (syncthing, Nextcloud, iCloud etc.)
       | 
       | On Android I used KeepassXC and syncthing.
       | 
       | After switching to iOS: Keepassium + NextCloud.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | When do we fork Firefox because Mozilla is a failure at their
       | job?
       | 
       | They've managed to lose almost all their market popularity,
       | mobile Firefox share is almost nonexistent, they pay their
       | executives extremely disproportionately compared to most
       | nonprofits, they have expanded into countless failed side
       | projects (Firefox OS, Firefox Send) and vestigial side projects
       | they aren't good at (Pocket, Firefox Focus, Firefox Reality,
       | Firefox Lockwise, Firefox Monitor, Mozilla VPN) which only serve
       | to distract Mozilla from working on Firefox.
       | 
       | And since then they've now decided they are an NGO fighting for
       | the Freedom of the Internet or something, even though all Google
       | has to do is pull royalty funding because Firefox's market share
       | is not worth supporting for how small it is, and their entire
       | operation will fall overnight like a house of cards.
        
         | skrowl wrote:
         | >When do we fork Firefox because Mozilla is a failure at their
         | job?
         | 
         | You mean like https://www.palemoon.org/ ,
         | https://www.waterfox.net/ ,
         | https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ , etc, or something
         | different?
        
         | kf6nux wrote:
         | > When do we fork Firefox because Mozilla is a failure at their
         | job?
         | 
         | When we can _and will_ do better.
         | 
         | FWIW, I heard Mozilla is offering full refunds to everyone that
         | purchased Lockwise, which is way better than you'd get from any
         | for-profit company.
        
           | Miraste wrote:
           | But Lockwise is free. Was that the joke?
        
             | kf6nux wrote:
             | Yup, I was poking fun at the entitlement people feel toward
             | FOSS developers who release free products.
             | 
             | Amusingly, the person railing against Mozilla didn't catch
             | that it's free and used "the refunds" as an additional
             | talking point against Mozilla.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Full refunds? I get the ethics - but that means that this
           | entire experiment was a very, very expensive failure that
           | only caused a net loss to the brand and Mozilla's finances.
           | Heads should roll in management, but they won't.
        
             | dralley wrote:
             | >was a very, very expensive
             | 
             | Why do you keep pretending to know this?
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | It doesn't take much math to know that Engineering Hours
               | + 100% return of all money made + Damages from having
               | money and then not having it + Labor and processing and
               | lost credit card fees = Expensive experiment.
               | 
               | Also they laid off a major Firefox engineering division
               | because of tight funds. You can't tell me that the side
               | projects didn't have something to do with that.
        
         | elcapitan wrote:
         | Once their market share is so small that it doesn't protect
         | Google from the next round of monopoly discussion anymore,
         | they'll probably pull the plug anyway. It's a shame.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Mozilla is _out of their minds_ to think that paying their
           | top executive _$2.4 million_ per year for 2018 onward (and
           | rising exponentially, it was  "only" $1 million a year in
           | 2016) is a good idea.
           | 
           | It's egregious by average nonprofit levels, particularly one
           | that advocates "ethics" like Mozilla, and considering they
           | laid off a major part of the development team, that's like 20
           | developers.
           | 
           | Hiring 20 developers to work on your _core product_ so that
           | Google keeps paying you, versus raising the top executive 's
           | pay for absolutely no good results other than adding failing
           | side projects. Insanity.
        
         | krzyk wrote:
         | Not sure what you are writing regarding Firefox Send and
         | Lockwise. They are/were good, or at least good for me.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | They are decent - but they are undermining the development of
           | the Firefox browser by consuming lots of precious time and
           | money which is not what Firefox needs right now.
           | 
           | Remember that Mozilla get's 90%+ of its funding, not from
           | donations, but from Google for being the default search
           | engine. Firefox's market share is now ~4%, dangerously close
           | to where Google might decide that the payout isn't worth it.
           | And close enough where Google thinks they could stop payments
           | without causing any antitrust ire because it's such a small
           | percentage it doesn't make any business sense.
           | 
           | You would think Mozilla executives would take that as a sign
           | that their funding and core product is at stake and they need
           | to double-down on it. Instead, they fire engineering teams
           | and spread into the many side projects in a desperate attempt
           | at diversification that isn't working.
        
             | Miraste wrote:
             | I get where you're coming from, and I would also love to
             | have more work put into Firefox, but development speed has
             | precisely nothing to do with why it's lost so much market
             | share. Nobody is choosing a browser because of feature
             | checklists. The average user has Chrome because it's the
             | default on Android and ChromeOS, and on everything else a
             | helpful notification tells you that your browser sucks and
             | you should get Chrome as soon as you google something, or
             | check your email, or watch a video, or open a document.
             | It's the strongest software marketing in history and short
             | of antitrust legislation I don't see any way for Mozilla to
             | compete.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | Maybe when Firefox was at 33% and Google was just
               | starting to gain major dominance in Chrome, Firefox
               | should have realized the game was changing and tried
               | blocking ads for Chrome or even lying to Google
               | properties that it was Chrome (as Microsoft Edge now is
               | capable of even though Microsoft AFAIK hasn't flipped the
               | switch).
               | 
               | If Google complained, Firefox could say it was a response
               | to anticompetitive behavior. Google would then be a
               | catch-22 where if they cut Firefox's default search
               | funding, they would be inviting lawsuits and
               | investigations. It wouldn't be a healthy relationship but
               | it would have given Firefox a stronger footing than right
               | now.
               | 
               | But Firefox just naively believed adding more fluff like
               | Pocket and paying their executives ludicrous sums of cash
               | would do the trick. You can't do that - you need to get
               | into the mindset that Google _wants_ to kill you and has
               | the power and brand to do it, so you need to fight and
               | stop the bleeding or get killed.
        
             | dralley wrote:
             | "lots"
             | 
             | But are they? I doubt you actually have any special
             | knowledge of this. They don't seem to me like they would
             | require so much resources.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | It's an open secret if you want to look around. For
               | example:
               | 
               | https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html
               | 
               | "Sadly Mozilla's annual report doesn't break down
               | expenses on a per-project basis so it's impossible to
               | know how much of the spending that is on Mozilla's
               | programme is being spent on Firefox and how much is being
               | spent on all these other side-projects.
               | 
               | What you can at least infer is that the side-projects are
               | expensive. Software development always is. Each of the
               | projects named above (and all the other ones that were
               | never announced or that I don't know about) will have
               | required business analysts, designers, user researchers,
               | developers, testers and all the other people you need in
               | order to create a consumer web project.
               | 
               | The biggest cost of course is the opportunity cost of
               | just spending that money on other stuff - or nothing: it
               | could have been invested to build an endowment. Now
               | Mozilla is in the situation where apparently there isn't
               | enough money left to fully fund Firefox development."
        
         | michaelhoffman wrote:
         | Personally I like Pocket although there are certainly places
         | where it could use improvement.
        
         | the_duke wrote:
         | There is exactly zero chance of maintaining an up to date,
         | reasonably fast and secure browser without a large, dedicated
         | team of highly qualified developers. Good luck with forking...
         | 
         | Mozilla has definitely failed with most of their side projects,
         | many of them really redundant. And shutting them down is really
         | bad for their reputation.
         | 
         | But they also need to find some funding source that doesn't
         | make them beholden to Google or Microsoft. They have been
         | desperately trying to do that.
         | 
         | Ignoring the fact that many of those side projects probably
         | took one or two part time devs, with the vast majority working
         | on the browser ... only working on Firefox won't get them any
         | revenue.
         | 
         | And no, a subscription model probably won't work. As things
         | stand they would need maybe 30-40 million subscribers paying
         | 10$/year to match Googles money. That's never happening.
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | "But they also need to find some funding source that doesn't
           | make them beholden to Google or Microsoft. They have been
           | desperately trying to do that."
           | 
           | I agree. How about we do some executive cuts at Mozilla then?
           | $2.4 million for the top exec over there, maybe to $300K or
           | so which is closer to average for a nonprofit, would be a
           | free $2 million per year. It's not like those executives have
           | been successful in any way to merit that cash.
           | 
           | I'm just stuck with that, I want Firefox to succeed, but the
           | leadership has real problems. And they need cash flow, but
           | side projects aren't doing it, so double-down already on your
           | success and try to claw back slowly - don't flee from what's
           | working.
           | 
           | Maybe even Fight Dirty. I have never figured out why Firefox
           | doesn't pretend to be Chrome on Google websites or try to
           | hide the "Download Chrome" or "Unsupported Browser" popups.
           | Microsoft doesn't care in their quest, Firefox shouldn't
           | either.
        
             | the_duke wrote:
             | Don't get so hung up on that salary. Managing a 400 million
             | + revenue company with 700+ employees is a big job with
             | lots of responsibility and legal liability. Considering
             | what US developers make, 2 million is not a lot of money
             | for that job in SF and perfectly fine for a qualified CEO.
             | 
             | Mozilla did not find a qualified candidate and had to make
             | due with a weak one, probably in part due to the low
             | compensation.
        
             | afavour wrote:
             | I agree the top execs could be paid less but it's still a
             | rounding error in their overall funding. It would be a
             | symbolic gesture, welcomed by many. But it wouldn't make a
             | massive difference.
        
             | emn13 wrote:
             | While I agree that the CEO's pay seems unreasonable, let's
             | not pretend it's a singular factor that's going to make a
             | significant dent overall.
             | 
             | The best thing people can do is simply use firefox; the
             | longer we avoid a chromium monoculture; the better - and
             | while mozilla the corp may suffer, as long as the userbase
             | doesn't entirely vanish, they might survive based on the
             | scraps microsoft or google throws them.
        
         | chuckSu wrote:
         | Fork it. Nobody's stopping you.
        
       | throwaway946513 wrote:
       | For iOS users, while autofill doesn't seem to be added just yet -
       | passwords are available from the hamburger menu in Firefox, as
       | well as adding, viewing, and managing passwords within iOS.
       | 
       | Mozilla has stated that they will add the autofill functionality
       | to Firefox for the system-wide use.
        
       | chrysoprace wrote:
       | Lockwise has always seemed like a weird product to me. I would've
       | liked to use it but I don't exclusively use Firefox so I need a
       | password manager that works on other browsers. It's
       | understandable that they didn't want to make it cross-browser,
       | but that flaw just makes it uncompetitive when compared to
       | Bitwarden who don't have a vested interest in making it only work
       | on one browser.
        
       | imnotjames wrote:
       | Ah, you got me by a minute to submit.
       | 
       | This is a bummer but not surprising. There have been a number of
       | outstanding bugs that were never addressed and releases were
       | slowing down - even when github commits were getting backed up.
        
         | ssivark wrote:
         | Please do elaborate. Also, does this leave users in the lurch,
         | or will an updated Firefox satisfy all the use cases of
         | Lockwise? Thanks.
        
           | imnotjames wrote:
           | For about 6 months or so I had to build my own release of
           | lockwise because they had trouble supporting a point release
           | of Android.
           | 
           | Their repo also hasn't seen any commits for about a year now:
           | 
           | https://github.com/mozilla-lockwise/lockwise-android
        
           | kbenson wrote:
           | Current Firefox on Android supports prior lockwise use cases,
           | from what I can see and what was reported in the comments
           | here. You might have to toggle it on first though.
        
       | rodgerd wrote:
       | It appears that the Mozilla project is not just copying Chrome's
       | look and feel for browser releases, but also copying Google's
       | strategy of launching things and then abandoning them.
        
       | ihaveajob wrote:
       | Very annoying. I use Firefox, but I also loved Lockwise as a
       | general password manager for other apps. What's the next best?
        
         | someotherperson wrote:
         | Lockwise was far from the best -- probably closer to the
         | bottom. So literally anything else would probably work just as
         | well.
         | 
         | One of the best free (as in beer) password managers is
         | Bitwarden.
        
         | Yoric wrote:
         | It is my understanding that Firefox itself will work as general
         | password manager for other apps.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Firefox > Settings > Logins & passwords > Autofill in other
         | apps.
         | 
         | Happy to discover this via another comment in this thread
         | myself!
         | 
         | Why oh why this isn't clearer (or mentioned at all for Android)
         | in the PR I have no idea. It makes a scary/annoying thing
         | tame/nothing.
         | 
         | I suppose we missed the earlier 'deprecated, switch to this'
         | memo?
        
       | someotherperson wrote:
       | Extremely happy about this. Mozilla has one job: building a
       | browser. Half baked apps like Lockwise are a waste of everyone's
       | time, including theirs. That's why they're failing _terribly_ at
       | their one job.
       | 
       | Hopefully we see more culling of similar products and so that the
       | engineering budget can steer back towards building a better
       | browser and hopefully working back towards having a decent slice
       | of the market.
        
       | ruined wrote:
       | well that's a little annoying. apparently this was published a
       | few days ago and i guess we just all got the email.
       | 
       | they mention continued pm support for ios, but not android? is
       | that discontinuing?
       | 
       | edit: android pm support is integrated too
        
       | schmorptron wrote:
       | This sucks. From the outside, Mozilla management just seems
       | incompetent, killing good product after good product while not
       | launching anything worthwhile to replace them.
        
         | schmorptron wrote:
         | Whoops - appears I overreacted in this specific case, the
         | feature just seems to be moving to the firefox app on Android,
         | didn't catch that from the announcement.
        
       | jdlshore wrote:
       | Before everybody gets up in arms from the headline, they're just
       | moving/keeping this feature into the Firefox browser. The article
       | says:
       | 
       | > Firefox for iOS will already sync your saved Lockwise
       | passwords. You can currently only use those inside Firefox. Check
       | back for updates in December 2021 on how to use Firefox for iOS
       | as your system-wide password manager. [It's already there on
       | Firefox for Android.]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | kuschku wrote:
         | The title should honestly be changed into something like
         | "Firefox Lockwise integrated into Firefox, standalone version
         | to be deprecated"
        
         | trebcon wrote:
         | Their messaging was pretty poor here imo. The email they sent
         | me gave no clear indication that Firefox would have this
         | ability in it's body.
        
           | swdunlop wrote:
           | Ditto. I came to HN after seeing the email, looking for the
           | best way to migrate my passwords out of Lockwise.
           | 
           | Well, still looking. They are outta here.
        
             | thinkloop wrote:
             | No-one seems to ever mention LastPass for some reason when
             | this comes up. It's a complete solution, locally-encrypted,
             | backed-up to the cloud, auto-fill, apps, all platforms,
             | etc.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Not open-source, 3rd-party trackers in the android app,
               | no easily accessible 3rd-party audits (that I can find),
               | an unintuitive UI (no easy 1-button copy, clunky item
               | entry*, etc.), and roughly 1 security incident every 1.5
               | years.
               | 
               | Are they the worst? No. Are there better ones? Yes.
               | 
               | *The number of people at work which put their username in
               | the URL field is astounding. We also have people saving
               | personal passwords into shared folders without realizing
               | it. This speaks to UI issues.
        
             | KennyBlanken wrote:
             | Keepass + your choice of file sync. Keepass's database has
             | file-based locking so it's safe to sync just via
             | filesystem.
             | 
             | I like KeepassXC one Android and MacOS; Keepassium free-
             | tier on iOS works great. On Android you can use syncthing,
             | but syncthing doesn't work on iOS, so I use NextCloud to
             | sync everything now.
        
               | emaro wrote:
               | For iOS I can also recommend Strongbox.
        
               | anmipo wrote:
               | For Syncthing on iOS there is Mobius Sync. However, it
               | struggles with background updates (due to iOS
               | restrictions).
        
               | Firehawke wrote:
               | Keepass2Android supports Dropbox, Onedrive, and a few
               | other ways of direct sync. https://play.google.com/store/
               | apps/details?id=keepass2androi...
               | 
               | For Windows 10/11 users who use a MS account, put a
               | portable copy of Keepass on OneDrive and it'll be there
               | right after a fresh reinstall plus sign-in, and you can
               | access it from the Android app using OneDrive sync built
               | into K2A.
        
               | kenniskrag wrote:
               | Keepass2Android also supports webdav, http, ftp, sftp and
               | nextcloud directly
        
             | Spivak wrote:
             | Bitwarden is my goto. If you're the selfhosting type
             | bitwarden_rs (now vaultwarden) is free and easy to setup.
             | If not BW's cloud hosting is also fine. Vaults work offline
             | just fine, apps on every major platform, biometric unlock
             | if you care about such things, and autofill on
             | browsers/ios/android. And they have a snazzy officially
             | supported CLI tool.
        
               | ulimn wrote:
               | And if you pay $10/year, it has 2FA as well. And you can
               | add notes and such. It's definitely worth using (and
               | paying imo).
        
               | YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote:
               | Wait so it lets you store your 2FA secrets and your
               | password in the same place? That sounds counterintuitive.
        
               | jfrunyon wrote:
               | It's super useful for a few sites I visit frequently who
               | require 2FA but I don't need that security. But yeah,
               | otherwise it's a pretty remarkably bad idea.
        
           | jonchang wrote:
           | These are the first paragraphs of the email I got:
           | 
           | > On December 13th 2021, the Firefox browser will be
           | officially "resorbing" Firefox Lockwise. Don't worry, all
           | your saved Lockwise passwords will still be available through
           | the Firefox browser using a Firefox account.
           | 
           | > The Firefox Lockwise app will no longer be updated and
           | supported by Mozilla and will not be available in the Apple
           | App and Google Play Stores. After that date, current Lockwise
           | users can continue to access their saved passwords and their
           | password management in the Firefox desktop and mobile
           | browsers.
           | 
           | It seems pretty clear-cut to me.
        
             | jfrunyon wrote:
             | Where does that say that it will autofill?
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | If I got an email, I haven't read it yet. But I have seen
             | this on the site via HN (make of that what you will...) and
             | it's completely unclear. It says the functionality is
             | coming to FF for iOS in December, but fails to mention that
             | Android already has it (doesn't mention it at all) or if
             | there are any differences at all to be aware of.
        
             | vorticalbox wrote:
             | i am not sure this is the same, lock wise let you fill in
             | passwords on any application not just in the browser
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | It's the same, I panicked at first then found the setting
               | thanks to a fellow commenter. Search my name in this
               | thread and I detailed it in response to someone else.
               | 
               | Sibling says it's working in Nightly -- I'm using the
               | regular stable release on Android and it's there. Haven't
               | even updated it for a few weeks at least. (I just didn't
               | know it existed before now, I was using Lockwise.)
               | 
               | All in all it makes sense tbh - Lockwise used FF account
               | and sync... Who would have one with synchronised data and
               | _not_ be using FF on their phone (esp. Android) anyway?
        
               | Vinnl wrote:
               | It is the same; I'm using Firefox Nightly to prefill
               | passwords in other apps.
        
       | JoshTriplett wrote:
       | I discovered recently that Firefox itself can work as a password
       | manager on Android. I had Lockwise installed so that I could use
       | Firefox saved passwords in other Android apps, and now it turns
       | out Firefox can do that directly.
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | The implication being that lockwise is discontinued because its
         | use case has been subsumed by Firefox?
         | 
         | If so, that's a thankful addendum to this announcement.
         | 
         | Edit: yep, in settings, logins and passwords, there are two
         | toggles, one to allow Firefox to fill in passwords for web
         | pages, and one to allow Firefox to fill in passwords for other
         | sites, which takes you to the Android password manager
         | selection section.
        
           | tfehring wrote:
           | Yeah, and it sounds like the same will be true on iOS
           | sometime in December. Not sure why they'd announce the
           | discontinuation now instead of just waiting a few weeks until
           | they have a drop-in replacement available, though I guess it
           | is just for one platform.
        
           | javajosh wrote:
           | I use Lockwise but not for other apps. Does anyone know the
           | details about how one app would fill in passwords for another
           | on Android? That capability seems...powerful and dangerous.
        
             | TrianguloY wrote:
             | https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/text/autofill
             | 
             | Basically: when you focus an input textbox Android asks the
             | service for autocompletion, and then you can choose one of
             | the options which is entered as if the user has typed it.
             | The service already has the password, and the destination
             | app can only get it when you select it (same as if you
             | write it yourself).
             | 
             | In the opposite scenario when you enter data in some inputs
             | Android asks the service if it is interested in them (but
             | without sending the content). If it does, it asks the user,
             | and only when the user accepts the password/content is sent
             | to the service.
             | 
             | In any case, you need to explicitly choose if you want to
             | use or change a service for this purpose, and only one can
             | be enabled at any time.
        
         | endemic wrote:
         | I never used Lockwise because of this existing functionality in
         | the main app.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Oh awesome, thanks. That changes this submission from 'what agh
         | no why' to 'ok meh no problem'(/'good'!) for me.
        
       | morpheuskafka wrote:
       | > Check back for updates in December 2021 on how to use Firefox
       | for iOS as your system-wide password manager.
       | 
       | It looks like they are working on integrating this functionality
       | into the main Firefox apps, which makes more branding sense
       | anyway. As it was the password management was just a feature of
       | the browser on desktop, but a whole different product with its
       | own brand name on mobile.
        
       | jckahn wrote:
       | What does this mean for iOS Lockwise users who use it as a
       | system-level password manager? Will we be able to use Firefox for
       | the same purpose?
       | 
       | I had to switch back to Safari from Firefox on iOS because the
       | latter had so many issues and missing features by comparison.
       | Lockwise was the only solution from a developer I trust for
       | syncing passwords between Ubuntu and iOS, and iCloud passwords
       | are unavailable on Linux.
       | 
       | I really hope iOS Firefox is updated to support system-level
       | password management!
        
         | jckahn wrote:
         | It looks like iOS Firefox will be updated to backfill this
         | functionality:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/r0kpke/lockwise_is...
         | 
         | Thanks for looking out for us, Mozilla! :)
        
         | vadfa wrote:
         | TFA answers your question.
        
           | jckahn wrote:
           | Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what TFA stands for in this
           | context. If you meant 2FA (two factor authentication), that
           | doesn't solve the problem of managing passwords.
        
             | azdle wrote:
             | TFA = The F*cking Article, a version of RTFM, basically.
             | 
             | > Note: Firefox for iOS will already sync your saved
             | Lockwise passwords. You can currently only use those inside
             | Firefox. Check back for updates in December 2021 on how to
             | use Firefox for iOS as your system-wide password manager.
        
               | jckahn wrote:
               | Oh, I see that now. I could have sworn that wasn't there
               | when I read the article initially? In any case, I'm glad
               | iOS users will still have that functionality!
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | hadrien01 wrote:
       | That's really a shame. I've installed Lockwise for my parents on
       | iOS because it was the simplest way to use their Firefox
       | passwords on the computer and on iOS devices. They don't need
       | something as complicated as Bitwarden or Lastpass, just a simple
       | password manager. Sure, I can install Firefox on their devices,
       | but that's an icon more they won't understand.
       | 
       | Can't say I didn't see it coming. Lockwise was full of bugs and
       | hadn't been updated for quite some time.
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | What's complicated about Lastpass/Bitwarden?
        
       | crossroadsguy wrote:
       | It's great that Mozilla is stopping something it's not at all
       | good at and isn't its main strength.
       | 
       | What is worse that it keeps doing such things - starting and then
       | killing services one after another; and never learns. So in the
       | end it's nothing great.
        
       | pqb wrote:
       | Very sad to see Lockwise being sunsetted. It provided good basis
       | for new product that actually could be a competitor to 1password.
       | However, I felt in guts it will have problem with traction,
       | because it seemed too opinionated for me. I have noticed some
       | people wanted to use Lockwise just like a password manager.
       | However, by a long time it was a read-only client for Firefox
       | Sync. No silly OTP calculator to cover Google Authenticator
       | logic. It also didn't support custom Sync Servers, which made a
       | bad taste for very advanced users. Mozilla is losing yet another
       | niche, where Lockwise could be a profitable, open-source full-
       | featured product.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | I try to give Mozilla some benefits of doubt and wasted 5 min
       | trying to search for an official note, PR , blog or something
       | that provides more detail, in a simple and clear manner to
       | explain the situation.
       | 
       | They could have worded it as All Lockwise functions being
       | integrated into Firefox, iOS version coming in December.
       | 
       | Nope, this is it. Or may be it is me being dumb. But judging from
       | some comments here this support document is extremely unclear.
       | 
       | Which is very typical of modern day Mozilla.
        
         | abnercoimbre wrote:
         | Why is this so infuriatingly common with them? Is there a place
         | for learning about their decision-making process? I'll take
         | crumbs at this point to make some sense of it.
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | It is very common and typical of any organisation ( so not
           | just Mozilla ) which are low in morale and dysfunctional,
           | lacking real leadership and customer care.
           | 
           | It is just human nature.
           | 
           | Little sad writing this since I followed Firefox before it
           | was called Firefox.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | owaislone wrote:
       | This is so so so sad. I use firefox as my main browser and
       | lockwise was so much useful when I needed to log into something
       | on my phone. Very disappointing.
        
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