[HN Gopher] I'm leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I'm leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup
        
       Author : cesarosum
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2021-11-23 10:43 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sifted.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sifted.eu)
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | Well awe shucks.
        
       | NetBeck wrote:
       | There's EU draft regulation regarding AI utilization. Prohibited
       | AI would be described as, "...systems or applications that
       | manipulate human behaviour in order to circumvent the free will
       | of the users."[0]
       | 
       | [0] https://www.ey.com/en_ch/ai/eu-draft-regulation-on-
       | artificia...
        
       | someonewhocar3s wrote:
       | Because you started off an apolitical asshole, but it turns out
       | 'marine blue' matches your eyes, and you can say 'I love how the
       | King stretches me' because the commonwealth fits your ideals like
       | a glove. Now you're absolutely down with the peculiarchie and
       | Celtic subject laws.
       | 
       | Of course, you couldn't phantom not to have to pick a partner
       | military - that was just a little bit too adventerious for you.
       | 
       | Oh, ok, I got it the wrong way around. ("Why I'm leaving,
       | (trading) London for NYC, (and getting a tax break works
       | anyway)") he's wrong to go to NYC. Their earlier Bitcoin
       | regulations state it well enough. Incapable.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | xyzzy123 wrote:
       | My 2c theory for the difference in investor outlook is "old
       | money" vs "new money". Old money is more risk averse - avoiding
       | capital loss is more important than making the biggest gains.
       | It's probably not possible to preserve a fortune for hundreds or
       | thousands of years without this kind of attitude.
       | 
       | There are a LOT of really old money families in Europe (and they
       | are a big part of the ruling class) and I believe this colours
       | the entire investment outlook.
       | 
       | In China the money is even newer than the US (practically no
       | billionaires by inheritance for fairly obvious reasons), so would
       | expect them to be even more aggressive and this seems to play
       | out.
       | 
       | One place I see the cracks in this idea are former Soviet states.
       | It seems like their billionaires should be more willing to back
       | moonshot investments than they actually are. Perhaps it is
       | because many of their billionaires are politically connected
       | oligarchs and don't back growth plays in the same way (more about
       | gaining and keeping control of existing pie).
       | 
       | An alternative would be that it's cultural in some more complex
       | way and proportion of inherited wealth is either a factor or
       | actually a consequence of other things going on.
        
       | drumhead wrote:
       | I dont understand, does he want the technical staff to sell
       | because he doesnt have a sales team or is it that the staff were
       | not creating a commercial project? If thats was the case then why
       | didnt he or other management step in and do something about it?
       | If Brexit was a problem why didnt they just relocate to Berlin,
       | Paris or Stockholm?
       | 
       | Or is this all to do with the much higher ratings tech companies
       | receive in the US?
        
       | DocTomoe wrote:
       | As an European, I am quite happy with a less aggressive sales
       | tactic - it makes companies focus on quality over whoever gets
       | the loudest sales guy.
        
       | matthewmorgan wrote:
       | It's pretty common in Europe for people to get a socially-funded
       | education then go off to the USA. It's called brain drain and has
       | been happening for a while, not sure why this guy needs to write
       | an article pretending that's not what's happening here.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | You don't really have a choice do you? Is he supposed to refuse
         | to go to college for free/low cost because he pays taxes to be
         | able to do that?
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | It's not too trivial to go from an European country to the US.
         | An H1-B is a hassle, as are the other types of visa available.
         | 
         | Can't imagine what is the process of "taking your startup"
         | (with you) entails.
        
         | dbolgheroni wrote:
         | I also see a lot of brain drain in Brazil. Most are from public
         | colleges, and they go mostly to Europe.
        
           | stayfrosty420 wrote:
           | I thought this was because lots of Brazilians are eligible
           | for Portuguese passports
        
       | aigo wrote:
       | > Almost my entire R&D team who received PhDs from British
       | universities had them funded by the European Union
       | 
       | Well, there you go.
        
         | SassyThrowaway wrote:
         | I did not understand that point at all. The author writes: "The
         | loss of this funding and scientific exchange is a major loss
         | for British and European academia -- and innovative companies
         | who need to hire the best scientific and technical talent." But
         | what is it exactly that the UK lost [funding-wise, science-
         | wise] due to Brexit?
        
           | aigo wrote:
           | The quote in my post about funding can no longer happen. The
           | EU only funds research at EU universities, and UK
           | universities aren't that any more.
        
             | SassyThrowaway wrote:
             | Historically, Israeli computer scientists have been able to
             | apply and win ERC grants. That said, I have not checked if
             | anything has changed for the UK in this regard, hence why I
             | am curious.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | AFAIK, unless this changed British scientists can apply
               | to Horizon Europe funding, which includes ERC grants.
               | However, there is some uncertainty as this is related to
               | the trade and cooperation agreement, which looks a bit
               | shaky right now.
               | 
               | One of the problem was that the British government does
               | not keep its word, so people are wary of putting British
               | colleagues only for their funding to get pulled at the
               | last minute because lord Frost wants to annoy the EU.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | agent008t wrote:
         | Was the UK not a net contributor to the EU budget? And
         | therefore, why cannot the UK fund PhDs more effectively than
         | the EU? I would've thought being less removed from the
         | universities and research groups would make funding more
         | effective.
        
           | mvc wrote:
           | > And therefore, why cannot the UK fund PhDs more effectively
           | than the EU?
           | 
           | I always assumed the whole raison d'etre of Brexit was that
           | Conservatives wanted to avoid the obligation of paying into
           | funds like this. Sounds lovely in theory but leaves less
           | government money available to companies with
           | social/professional connections to the cabinet.
           | 
           | Funny to see the red wallers finally realizing that too now.
        
             | agent008t wrote:
             | I still think the whole divide over Brexit was less about
             | the principle of it, but more about whether you are more
             | aligned with the current EU political leanings or with
             | those of the current UK ones (reflected in its Tory
             | leadership).
             | 
             | If you are more aligned with the EU political leanings, you
             | would want them to be able to force the UK government to do
             | what you believe is the right thing. If you are more
             | aligned with the tories, you want them to be free to do
             | their thing without being told what to do by the EU. And
             | that seems to correlate highly with whether you think
             | Brexit was a good or a bad idea.
             | 
             | An interesting thought experiment I like to ask people to
             | do is whether they would change their views on Brexit if
             | the political leanings of the EU and the UK were flipped.
             | I.e. the EU views were more like ones they disagree with
             | (e.g. more right-wing perhaps), and the political leanings
             | of the UK were more like what they agree with. For example,
             | if the UK wanted to have more funding for science, but the
             | EU frowned upon that regarding it as unfair competition, or
             | something along those lines.
        
               | an9n wrote:
               | Regardless of the left/right false dichotomy, if either
               | the EU, national governments thereof, or the UK were to
               | start looking after their electorates' interests rather
               | than doing the bidding of faceless globalist puppet-
               | masters, it would be a start.
        
               | deadbunny wrote:
               | That's the thing, they're not faceless to the
               | establishment. They are their friend and donors.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | > I still think the whole divide over Brexit was less
               | about the principle of it, but more about whether you are
               | more aligned with the current EU political leanings or
               | with those of the current UK ones (reflected in its Tory
               | leadership).
               | 
               | Not necessarily. As a socialist, I really don't align
               | with the "current EU political leanings". I also realise
               | that the EU is still useful for several things, and that
               | leaving it would be at best counter-productive.
               | 
               | Replace "the EU" with your country. You can be in
               | disagreement with your current government without wanting
               | to secede. That's the same with the EU, really: for all
               | its warts and idiosyncrasies, we are better united than
               | divided.
        
               | tonyedgecombe wrote:
               | I'm doubtful about that. For one thing large amounts of
               | left wing areas voted for Brexit including Wales as a
               | whole. Also the Tory leadership at the time was pro-
               | remain whereas the Labour leadership was lukewarm at
               | best.
        
           | maccard wrote:
           | That was the suggestion that was made to many industries and
           | regions, yes. In reality it seems that those funding sources
           | are not being met, e.g. Cornwall [0] and the red wall [1]
           | 
           | [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468
           | 
           | [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-
           | levell...
        
             | aigo wrote:
             | The top-rated comment on this FT article [0] spells it out
             | really quite clearly.
             | 
             |  _English regions used to receive funds of PS1 billion a
             | year from the EU regeneration fund for poor regions with
             | the final year om 2018 the final figure being PS1.12bn of
             | the PS8.4 billion total over the seven year period._
             | 
             |  _For 2018, this worked out to be Midlands (PS190m),
             | Yorkshire (PS143m), Cornwall (PS95m), the north west
             | (PS88m) and the north east (PS80m)._
             | 
             |  _Now this figure of PS1.12bn (PS8.4 billion over the seven
             | year budget) has been cut to PS220m for 2021-22 and PS3.6bn
             | in total for the same period._
             | 
             | [0] https://www.ft.com/content/eb56347b-42bb-4c56-906a-2ea2
             | 4bd54...
             | 
             | p.s the comments section on the FT is probably the best on
             | the internet, apart from maybe here
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | > p.s the comments section on the FT is probably the best
               | on the internet, apart from maybe here
               | 
               | My impression as well. The articles are also good, but
               | bear in mind that both have a noticeable neo-liberal
               | point of view.
        
           | user568439 wrote:
           | That's the Brexiters logic, but it turns out UK was not only
           | contributing to the EU but also trading. Now it doesn't need
           | to contribute anymore but it also lost exports, access to
           | talent and so on.
        
             | agent008t wrote:
             | Fine, but my point is there is no reason for Brexit to be a
             | net negative when it comes to the funding of PhDs - if
             | anything, it offers an opportunity to be more effective at
             | funding.
             | 
             | Same when it comes to the specific issue of access to
             | talent - nothing in principle stopping the UK from making
             | it extremely easy for talent to come to the UK.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | > Fine, but my point is there is no reason for Brexit to
               | be a net negative when it comes to the funding of PhDs -
               | if anything, it offers an opportunity to be more
               | effective at funding.
               | 
               | This works only if you assume that the amount of money
               | stayed the same. For now, there has been a flux of
               | capital and business moving over to the continent. Trade
               | decreased as well. This can change in the long run,
               | depending on the policy of the Bank of England, but for
               | now Brexit is a net loss in British government funding.
               | Besides the fact that the money that was supposed to be
               | saved was also supposed to be spent simultaneously on the
               | NHS, infrastructure, and developing the "northern
               | powerhouse" (of cards, unfortunately, as the North of
               | England gets shafted again).
        
               | tonyedgecombe wrote:
               | Anything remotely related to the EU is toxic as far as
               | the current government is concerned. This includes
               | immigration which they successfully tied to the EU in
               | voters minds.
        
               | roomey wrote:
               | The point is that there was both scales of economy due to
               | the Erasmus program and a lot of pan European research
               | grants..
               | 
               | Being able to pull from a Europe wide talant pool was a
               | huge benefit to the UK and her universities.
               | 
               | So there was massive, irreplaceable benefits just for
               | universities lost due to the Brexit project.
               | 
               | Along with that Brexit has cost the UK a ton of money..
               | this net contributer stuff was literal propaganda.
               | 
               | The UK is worse off now, with less funding to go around.
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | Short answer: the UK and the EU have different priorities and
           | the Tories are not interested in giving money to get more
           | fancy "intellectuals" (who tend to be foreign and liberal).
           | 
           | Also, for now Brexit is costing more than the money that was
           | supposed to be saved.
        
       | jgrahamc wrote:
       | _Beyond that, I believe that Europe's (particularly Britain's)
       | negative cultural attitude towards sales is a major inhibitor to
       | building tech champions on the same scale as the US or China. In
       | my thirteen years of working in the UK, I've learnt that in
       | British culture sales and selling is viewed negatively._
       | 
       | The linked HBR article talks about self-promotion not sales. That
       | seems quite different to me. And speaking from Cloudflare's
       | perspective our London-based EMEA sales team has been
       | spectacularly effective.
       | 
       |  _Early in Eigen's history there were many London-based employees
       | who prioritised technological purity over commercial success; it
       | was almost fatal for us. However hard it is, the UK needs to
       | transform its cultural attitude to sales._
       | 
       | I think that's a leadership issue not about "London". The team we
       | built in London was/is all about commercial success.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | London does sales well, if you want a sales office you open it
         | in london.
         | 
         | What it doesn't do well is spaff money indiscriminately at any
         | old idiot with an idea. Even less so to someone with a crap
         | idea.
         | 
         | Despite the article author's claim, most of the startups in the
         | generation that I joined (2018+) have focused on getting a
         | decent business model, rather than hyper growth above all else.
         | 
         | They also had to do much more with significantly less. There
         | was less VC money sloshing about compared to the west coast, so
         | we had to be very careful in how we optimised.
         | 
         | To back up the point that John is making, "Technical purity"
         | above all else is a symptom of leadership not explaining the
         | business needs well enough. (or not putting in place an
         | engineering team with enough pragmatism to translate business
         | to tech. )
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | I mean, good luck to him moving his HQ to NYC etc. but if I
           | were an employee in London HM The Queen's tea cup in Windsor
           | would be shaking from the sonic boom after I lit the reheats
           | on my CV.
        
             | eganist wrote:
             | > I mean, good luck to him moving his HQ to NYC etc. but if
             | I were an employee in London HM The Queen's tea cup in
             | Windsor would be shaking from the sonic boom after I lit
             | the reheats on my CV.
             | 
             | I wish I lived in London _just_ to use this expressive
             | nugget of gold.
        
           | iso1210 wrote:
           | > What it doesn't do well is spaff money indiscriminately at
           | any old idiot with an idea.
           | 
           | That's what government's for
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | No, the UK government requires you to have no clue (but be
             | chums with a minister or Tory MP) before it spaffs torrents
             | of money your way.
        
         | ed_balls wrote:
         | I used to work for a startup founded by a few Brits. We had
         | engineers in London, but no sales people, because of the
         | culture. I was much easier to sell to Walmart than Tesco.
        
         | eganist wrote:
         | In fairness, Cloudflare's public perception as a disruptor
         | already did Cloudflare's marketing for it in 2017 onward when
         | y'all opened your London office; Eigen doesn't seem to have
         | that advantage.
         | 
         | I can imagine the sales landscape being a bit better with those
         | tailwinds.
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | The 2017 date you mention is not correct.
           | 
           | I was Cloudflare's first employee in London in 2011.
           | Cloudflare went all in on London shortly thereafter and at
           | one point 50% of Cloudflare engineering was in London and 50%
           | in San Francisco. We had sales very early on in London
           | covering EMEA. At the current time the London office is "full
           | stack": engineering, operations, support, sales, legal, HR,
           | finance, ...
        
             | eganist wrote:
             | Thanks; I googled it and the press was heaviest in April
             | 2017 for a new London office, so this is a helpful
             | correction for me. Though deeper inspection found 2013 (htt
             | ps://www.facebook.com/Cloudflare/posts/10151742549255432),
             | so I probably should've just googled harder.
             | 
             | It also changes the equation substantially since the rest
             | of my assumptions were based on 2017, though I wonder how
             | much the environment also changed between 2011 and 2021,
             | brexit aside?
        
               | jgrahamc wrote:
               | Cloudflare's London office remains large and important.
               | We've built up Lisbon as an alternative location in part
               | to give folks a choice between London and a continental
               | European city and in part because we are hiring so fast
               | it's good to hire in multiple places.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | > prioritised technological purity over commercial success; it
         | was almost fatal for us.
         | 
         | A leadership failure, exactly. I thought I understood how
         | business worked until I joined a startup. It was eye-opening
         | hearing how Sales people did their jobs and the pressures they
         | were under. Personally, I'd fail at being a Salesperson, it's a
         | special talent. If a business allows its tech team to dictate a
         | "better late than never" attitude then it's quite likely
         | doomed.
        
         | Terry_Roll wrote:
         | I was going to cite the same section, but what the author fails
         | to notice or mention is a massive amount of inflation circles
         | the planet right now that has not been seen since the 70's,
         | which is perhaps before his time, but he may have noticed being
         | based in London the BBC's Faisal Islam has already dropped it
         | into a report that the Bank of England is seeing 5% interest
         | rates in 2022 with inflation remaining on its current
         | trajectory! When money becomes tight due to things like
         | inflation, selling becomes harder because people want quality
         | because it adds value and this "London-based employees who
         | prioritised technological purity over commercial success" is to
         | put it another way, quality, which will hurt the competition.
         | When money is cheap due to low interest rates, people throw it
         | around like confetti, when money becomes expensive, we will see
         | who is not wearing a swimming costume when the tide goes out.
         | Helicopter Ben is at it again.
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59358070
        
         | waihtis wrote:
         | Personal anecdote - depends on where you are on the technology
         | adoption bell curve. Innovative, a bit "out-there" things seem
         | to be better received in the US.
        
       | mg wrote:
       | Are there any European websites in the Alexa top 50?
       | 
       | https://www.alexa.com/topsites
       | 
       | For all I know, Europe mostly missed the internet.
       | 
       | Will the same happen with AI, data centers, solar, crypto and
       | biotech?
        
         | goldcd wrote:
         | I think there's a difference between where companies are
         | listed/head-quartered and where the work is done (e.g. Google
         | seems to have 4 separate offices, just in London).
         | 
         | Or consider India, where huge amounts of dev work is done - but
         | nobody can name an "Indian web brand" (internationally).
         | 
         | Only actual European brand I can think of that's made global
         | impact is Spotify.
         | 
         | Europe seems to do better on the less fancy consumer facing
         | side of IT - reasearch and 'hard' companies like ARM.
        
         | czzr wrote:
         | The web was invented in Europe. Still, you're right, few big
         | internet successes in Europe. Problem is almost entirely
         | addressable market size.
        
           | mg wrote:
           | What hinders Europeans to address big markets?
        
             | dukeyukey wrote:
             | More limited home markets, in both a regulatory and
             | cultural way.
        
               | mg wrote:
               | Since we are talking about internet companies - why is
               | the home market important?
        
               | dukeyukey wrote:
               | Language, culture, regulation - it's not just a matter of
               | reach.
               | 
               | Like, imagine a successful-at-home French startup wanting
               | to expand internationally. First, unless you're happy
               | staying in the confines of the old French Empire, you're
               | gonna need to translate everything, definitely to
               | English, maybe to German or Spanish. Second, your app is
               | built with French attitudes in mind. Chances are you're
               | gonna have to change that to adapt to American, British,
               | German tastes, and that's a lot of redesign. Third, for
               | every country you expand to, you have to comply with
               | local rules and regs. The EU has helped here, but
               | definitely not solved the issue.
               | 
               | Whereas in the US, not only have you got 330 million
               | wealth consumers under broadly the same legal/cultural
               | regime, but they practically all speak English too! That
               | gives US startups a much more solid base to expand from.
               | Hell, in Europe the UK is by far the biggest tech hub on
               | the continent, and Ireland punches far above it's weight.
               | Don't discount the advantages of language or culture even
               | in a globalised world.
        
               | Zababa wrote:
               | I know someone that work in a startup that does exactly
               | that. Opening a new country takes 3/6 months, as you need
               | to open an office in the country and recruit people here.
               | And that's now that they have a good process for it.
               | Translation and localisation add processes and takes
               | time. You need a new sales team for each country.
               | Sometimes support too. Launching something in the USA
               | would be equivalent to have France, Germany, Italy, Spain
               | and the UK at the same time. That's a lot.
        
             | IdiocyInAction wrote:
             | Language barriers, legal differences between countries,
             | etc. Also less availability of capital in general.
        
               | thow-58d4e8b wrote:
               | More underappreciated aspect is variety. US tends to be
               | very copy-paste - once you solve someone's problem well,
               | it's quite likely your solution is universally applicable
               | to large swaths of the market. EU varies not only
               | country-to-country, but often even between departments of
               | the same company in the same building. It's not just
               | technology, even markets for beer or coffee are likely
               | more varied in your average EU country than in the entire
               | US
        
         | Ragnarokk wrote:
         | It is kind of biased if you take global raw data as the US and
         | China have a bigger share of global internet users. Baidu is
         | 6th but I doubt that it is highly frequented by American or
         | Europeans. However, the problem shows when you search by
         | country. Top visited sites in Europe are still American.
        
         | dgellow wrote:
         | VK.com is European if you're talking about the continent.
         | Though not if you're talking about the EU.
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | I wonder how you move a company with about 200 employees to a
       | different country and time zone.
        
         | soco wrote:
         | Especially when they prioritize technological purity over
         | commercial success. Okay irony aside, you kick (most of) them
         | out and hire new folks.
        
       | an9n wrote:
       | Not particularly convinced about the Brexit angle or the comments
       | on sales - for example, you can bet that The City has some highly
       | aggressive salesmen/women given its status. But from my
       | perspective Europe suffers from a problem of culture - there is
       | _seriously_ old money here and, I 'd assert, a related, outdated
       | zero-sum/dog in the manger mentality. Anything like FAANG, Tesla,
       | SpaceX etc that seriously threatens to disrupt the status quo is
       | either stillborn, strangled at birth or shortly thereafter as
       | this guild's dead hand does its work.
        
       | ageitgey wrote:
       | I run a US-based start-up with a distributed team, but I
       | personally live in London. I'd say a lot of this is true. I don't
       | personally know how Brexit has or hasn't affected talent
       | availability yet, but everything else lines up with my
       | experience. US investors throw money around and European
       | investors are much more traditional.
       | 
       | But I'd like to offer a different perspective on this quote from
       | the article:
       | 
       | > I am not alone in believing Europe has a problem with founders
       | and investors, who lack ambition in comparison to the best of
       | Silicon Valley or Shenzhen. While I have been blessed with my
       | European investors, who are very much the exception to this rule
       | and share my ambition, I have seen this lack of boldness during
       | my various fundraising processes with many other investors.
       | 
       | The US VC market right now is very "frothy", as the VCs say. It's
       | so frothy, you might as well say the froth has churned into
       | butter. The article says that European investors lack "boldness",
       | but one might instead say that US investors are lacking outlets
       | for their ample capital and will throw money at nearly anything
       | right now. I guess it depends on your point of view.
       | 
       | But the truth remains - it's a whole lot easier to raise money in
       | the US right now.
        
         | Dracophoenix wrote:
         | How do you manage a company from across the Atlantic? What does
         | your tax situation look like? Do you personally enjoy living in
         | London or are you there in spite of your interests?
        
           | ageitgey wrote:
           | 1. One day at a time. But in all seriousness, a good co-
           | founder and team. Also, we started the company during COVID
           | which I think made the VCs less worried a about a full remote
           | situation.
           | 
           | 2. US citizen but UK tax resident. So two income tax returns.
           | It's a pain, but thankfully the tax treaty means one offsets
           | the other and it works out in the end.
           | 
           | 3. Personally want to live in London
        
       | aaa_aaa wrote:
       | Summary: He received free money from EU. Now that he could not
       | get enough from UK government, he is leaving.
        
         | jstx1 wrote:
         | This is misleading. Their staff having EU-funded PhDs is very
         | different from receiving free money from the EU.
        
           | simsla wrote:
           | In the EU industry PhDs are fairly common. In this case, the
           | PhD student does R&D work for a company, and gets paid
           | through an EU PhD grant.
           | 
           | For some companies, it's an indirect way to get funding,
           | because it provides for cheaper highly skilled labour.
           | 
           | (Anecdote incoming) For example, many years ago at the end of
           | my industry internship, the company offered to continue the
           | project as a PhD, pursuant grant funding. When I declined,
           | they offered a well paid full-time job to do the same.
        
           | me_me_me wrote:
           | Technically correct, though he is directly benefiting from EU
           | funding. Or was.
        
         | artembugara wrote:
         | Literally each part of this sentence is false
        
         | throwawaylinux wrote:
         | And not to the EU, but the US.
        
       | stillblue wrote:
       | I'm slightly confused. Is the traditional way not the stable way
       | to go about things instead of how it is done in the US? These
       | seem more like positives than negatives to me.
        
       | TheGigaChad wrote:
       | Bye Bye!
        
       | soco wrote:
       | I really like the way he describes Europe. Pretty much the way I
       | see it as well.
        
       | setgree wrote:
       | > Advances in the type of small data AI we do -- AI created
       | without vast data sets -- _would have only been possible here in
       | Europe_ , with its deep and diverse technical and mathematical
       | talent. This would have been difficult in Silicon Valley _given
       | US tech's reluctance to experiment and innovate_ , beyond the
       | conventional "big data AI" approach.
       | 
       | Can anyone expand on what the author is saying here/validate it
       | with personal experience? I have never thought of AI advances as
       | "only" being possible in Europe, or of the US tech scene as
       | reluctant to innovate.
        
       | c7DJTLrn wrote:
       | Sounds like the author is upset that Brexit has closed the valve
       | on the pipeline of cheap labour from EU workers. There's no
       | shortage of talent in London trust me, it's just that you're
       | going to have to start paying more than a pittance to get it.
       | Brexit so far has been a positive thing for tech workers'
       | salaries.
        
         | aigo wrote:
         | Tech workers salaries are going up everywhere, though, and it's
         | happening in other industries too. It can't be because of
         | Brexit that a bartender in NYC is getting paid more, but they
         | are.
        
         | brianmcc wrote:
         | "cheap EU labour" tends to apply more to fruit pickers than AI
         | PhDs I suspect
        
           | kranke155 wrote:
           | Nope. Eastern European brilliant minds would flock to London
           | and get paid far lower salaries than they were worth.
           | Ukranians, Lithuanians. The legacy of communist math is alive
           | and well - they were generally better than any western
           | european talent you could get and cheaper. They would always
           | get the top jobs, but the regular influx of new blood meant
           | salaries were stuck.
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | Yes, I voted remain but I suspect the businesses yelling that
         | they can't hire really mean they can't hire for what they were
         | accustomed to paying before Brexit. It's particularly prevalent
         | in lower paid areas like transport, coffee shops, and
         | agriculture. If the success of your business depended on low
         | wages Brits won't accept, you're likely to be in trouble.
        
       | varjag wrote:
       | Likely a prequel to "leaving NYC for SF".
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | Wherever he goes his problems will follow him. The US won't be
         | a utopia when it comes to hiring PhD's with sales skills
         | either.
        
       | goldcd wrote:
       | I work for a company head-quartered in one continent, listed on
       | another and I work in a third (the UK) - and sales are based all
       | over.
       | 
       | Not for one moment saying there aren't local
       | issues/idiosyncrasies - but I'm unsure how moving your company
       | solves them, and article seems to overlook all manner of
       | problems:
       | 
       | Aren't you going to lose staff when you move?
       | 
       | Is everybody going to have to get up really early to talk to
       | Europe?
       | 
       | Won't new employees cost more in NA?
       | 
       | i.e. Why not just hire a US based sales rep to sell to your US
       | customers, in the style that works there? (and a native speaking,
       | convervative, tech-enabled one for Germany etc)
       | 
       | Or just register yourself at a Missouri PO, list in the US, seek
       | US investors etc?
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | Well precisely
         | 
         | Moving to NYC/silicon valley is going to mean fishing in a very
         | over fished pool. There is a reason why "meta", Google and
         | amazon are expanding engineering over here and the wider EU:
         | lots of (comparably) cheap talented labour.
         | 
         | Even if you don't loose staff, operating an engineering team
         | over large distances is a challenge unless you know what your
         | doing.
         | 
         | Given that he's blaming the engineers for concentrating on
         | "technical purity" when I assume he was in charge, I suspect
         | he's not really of the right mindset to be responsive enough to
         | make the changes needed.
         | 
         | Still, best of luck. I look forward to the updates on progress.
        
           | goldcd wrote:
           | Yes, there was a subtext of:
           | 
           | 1) I'd like my company to be doing better ("what an
           | innovative thought")
           | 
           | and
           | 
           | 2) It isn't, because the engineers are trying to make the
           | product better and sales can't shift it (but these two things
           | definitely aren't connected and due to me not being in NYC
           | which will magically solve these issues)
        
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