[HN Gopher] Unmasking the most viral page on Facebook
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Unmasking the most viral page on Facebook
        
       Author : antoniokov
       Score  : 190 points
       Date   : 2021-11-22 17:39 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.garbageday.email)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.garbageday.email)
        
       | ffhhj wrote:
       | I developed software for lottery and casino services, and when I
       | read stories like this the first thing that comes to my mind is
       | this "golden ticket winner" effect that ranking algorithms are
       | designed to generate.
       | 
       | The chances of winning the lottery are so low, but whoever wins
       | will get so much media coverage that everybody believes they can
       | win.
       | 
       | I don't think it's a coincidence that "poor" content makers are
       | on top of the transparency list, it's just the algorithm
       | exploiting this "you can be a winner too" effect.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | "The Algorithm" or "Its Zuckerberg's fault" etc are all
       | simplistic, comforting narratives to distract from the horrifying
       | truth. The Clickfarm bots and fake account NPCs have collectively
       | achieved an emergent intelligence. We humans aren't the majority
       | of our social networks anymore, and we don't have any idea what
       | it is the bots are pushing for.
       | 
       | The people we want to hold accountable for this mess are being
       | run over by this steamroller just as we are.
        
         | FredPret wrote:
         | That's a book I'd read
        
           | ffhhj wrote:
           | Waiting for the movie of the book
        
             | EmilioMartinez wrote:
             | Waiting for the Black Mirror ripoff of the movie
        
       | IncRnd wrote:
       | > If that bothers you, now imagine if, instead of being a random
       | woman, you were a company with employees, and the same thing
       | happened. Imagine if Facebook allowed you to reach inconceivable
       | levels of scale and then, one day, they flipped a switch and made
       | it all disappear. Pretty messed up, right?
       | 
       | This was buried right at the end. I estimate this is the real
       | import of the article, but it went virtually unnoticed and
       | unattended, only mentioned in passing.
        
       | blackearl wrote:
       | You see this on Youtube as well. Comments acknowledge "The
       | Algorithm", mentioning that the algorithm suddenly chose this
       | video from 2013 to be popular, or that people who were picked by
       | the algorithm to like this video must be cool. This has happened
       | with music too, Plastic Love and Ryo Fukui's Scenery being some
       | examples I noticed. Maybe it really is "the algorithm" right now
       | but it seems like this could be easily manipulated.
        
         | selwynii wrote:
         | Plastic Love doesn't quite serve your point, it's just they
         | released the MV after literally decades, and nostalgia is handy
         | for engagement.
         | 
         | Granted I do see that YT has the same issues. I don't think its
         | easy to manipulate, but all recommendation systems are going to
         | have people trying to manipulate it.
        
         | Damogran6 wrote:
         | "All hail the algorithm" - SuperfastMat on Youtube
         | 
         | (which is a highly entertaining channel, it's good he's self-
         | aware)
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | I had a somewhat similar experience at a much smaller scale a
       | long time ago. I used to buy and sell domains. Bought one that
       | was very close to being on the first page of Google results for a
       | keyword related to personal finance.
       | 
       | Did a bit of sprucing up the page, dropped a few links, and it
       | did get on the front page for a few months, with AdSense paying
       | me several thousands dollars a month while it lasted. The page
       | itself wasn't a scam per se, but it was roughly 1000 medium-
       | effort words on the topic I wrote in a day, along with a few
       | original photos that took another day, and a couple of inline
       | AdSense ads.
       | 
       | It didn't deserve to be on the first page of results. I guess the
       | "kingmaker" thing still exists where big tech decides who today's
       | winner is, and doesn't always get it right.
        
       | Damogran6 wrote:
       | What I hate is that Facebook's intentionally nerfed reporting
       | mechanisms keep it's customers from self-reporting.
       | 
       | For a period of time I'd get a post 'From %Person%, With some
       | other %entity%' and they're less than interesting...and you CAN'T
       | block it. One of your friends comments on a stupid post and the
       | only option you have to send a signal is 'mute my friend for 30
       | days'...because the 'with' account always changes.
       | 
       | This actively makes Facebook unfun and had the great side-effect
       | of sending my on a 2 week hiatus.
       | 
       | If I could block posts 'commented on by a friend, but has
       | engagement above 100,000 people' I'd block it in a
       | heartbeat...because the content has NEVER been entertaining, and
       | has often been half-a step away from learning people's security
       | questions....at scale.
        
       | cm2012 wrote:
       | This is fascinating.
       | 
       | I'd posit that this random blog is harmless. It's better that
       | some random dropship site is connected to this traffic than a
       | more sophisticated organization IMO.
        
       | hedgehog wrote:
       | We have built the paperclip factory only instead of paperclips it
       | is making clicks.
        
         | woudsma wrote:
         | https://clickclickclick.click
        
         | tapgnid wrote:
         | Paperclicks.
        
           | goldenkey wrote:
           | Vaporclicks ;-)
        
       | r721 wrote:
       | >18M comments
       | 
       | That is just sad. I wonder how many times each one of those 18M
       | comments was viewed on average.
        
         | dreyfan wrote:
         | There are millions of fake social profiles on Facebook,
         | LinkedIn, Twitter, etc that use fake generated profile photos,
         | friend networks among both themselves and gullible real users,
         | and automated markov chain style comments on popular content.
         | It's a self-perpetuating system and an effective way to see
         | inside the walled gardens.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | It's been a few years since I've been on Facebook, but doesn't
         | facebook show your comments to your friends by default? It's
         | not like Reddit or Hacker News where everyone sees the same
         | comments, is it?
        
           | FilthyAnalyst wrote:
           | Yes, you will see comments from friends on posts like these.
           | Even if they have a million comments it will come into your
           | feed with a friends replies visible.
        
             | simoneau wrote:
             | And I think that's why these are so viral. When you see a
             | question and your friend's answer, it makes you feel like
             | you're responding as well.
        
               | input_sh wrote:
               | That or the post is some variation of "tag someone that
               | does X", or the one I've recently noticed "tag your
               | favourite celebrity and see if they'll respond". Random
               | pages I've no connection to are now popping into my feed
               | because some page I follow responded to someone that
               | tagged them under one of those. Completely pointless.
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | A while back I was trying to get twitter followers. I
       | experimented with a few different strategies - quick reactions to
       | big accounts I agreed with or disagreed with, saying what I
       | thought people wanted to hear, saying what I thought would be
       | controversial hot takes, tweeting about everything trending, etc.
       | I basically got no traction. I was getting low tens of thousands
       | of impressions a month according to the twitter analytics tool
       | and maybe 1 or 2 new followers a month - and, to be honest, those
       | new followers were probably bots.
       | 
       | Eventually, I hit on a new strategy. Instead of trying to
       | generate good tweets I just followed people at random. I forget
       | the exact number, but somewhere between 15-30% of the people I
       | followed at random would follow me back. I realized I could
       | probably get an arbitrary number of followers this way but it
       | would be a pretty stupid and meaningless achievement so I quit
       | doing it.
       | 
       | The "viral post" strategy of the article, asking things like "Who
       | the heck sleeps with the fan on?" maybe similar as a kind of
       | brainless strategy to get followers. I guess some people like
       | responding to these prompts. I suspect it has the same weakness
       | as the "follow back" strategy though. Nobody really cares about
       | the account or connects with it or even understands what you're
       | trying to do. These people aren't _your_ followers so much as
       | they are people who like small talk and coalesced around you for
       | a time.
        
         | Traster wrote:
         | >Eventually, I hit on a new strategy. Instead of trying to
         | generate good tweets I just followed people at random. I forget
         | the exact number, but somewhere between 15-30% of the people I
         | followed at random would follow me back.
         | 
         | This is exactly what my teenage cousins used to do (maybe not
         | twitter maybe snaphat?) but with one tweak- they'd go through
         | following people, and then once they'd followed they unfollow
         | them again so now it looked like they were following you but
         | you weren't following them back.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | > I just followed people at random.
         | 
         | AFAIK follower building like this is now banned in Twitter ToS
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | > I suspect it has the same weakness as the "follow back"
         | strategy though. Nobody really cares about the account or
         | connects with it or even understands what you're trying to do.
         | These people aren't your followers so much as they are people
         | who like small talk and coalesced around you for a time.
         | 
         | But if the entire point is to get impressions so you can sell a
         | product, or whatever, do you are if people don't particularly
         | like you?
        
           | kevinmchugh wrote:
           | Twitter users with 1:1 followers: following are known to be
           | trying to get followers and aren't actually reading posts
           | from those users. It's all circular, a bunch of people
           | juicing each other's follower stats.
           | 
           | They use lists or separate accounts to read the accounts they
           | care about. They have bad engagement on their posts
        
           | kingcharles wrote:
           | OK, I can give you a real world example of why parent
           | commenter's strategy is useless.
           | 
           | I had two pages on Facebook based on a very popular movie
           | from the 1980s.
           | 
           | One was the actual studio's page for the movie that I was
           | given access to (as the studio admitted they don't give a
           | fuck about any IP that doesn't have an immediate release -
           | e.g. Blu-ray etc - planned for it), which had over 2 million
           | likes. When you opened a Facebook account this page was one
           | of the list that was often presented to a new user as
           | something they should "like".
           | 
           | The other was a fan page I'd made which was niche, had to be
           | actively sought out, and had 30,000 likes.
           | 
           | I experimented with selling branded products through the
           | accounts. The small fan page sold 10X as many products as the
           | official page that had almost 100X more followers.
           | 
           | tl;dr: if you want to sell shit to your followers they need
           | to be engaged with you - just having people follow you on
           | autopilot is going to create nothing of value.
        
       | coldcode wrote:
       | One thing that gets me is that people have such a pathetic life
       | that they feel they have to share these lame posts.
        
       | Traster wrote:
       | I can't help but think it's not a coincidence that Facebook
       | decides to produce a content report that lists the top 20 most
       | viewed items and _it just so happens_ that the top 20 items are
       | inexplicably spam. Either facebook is enitrely dominated by spam
       | (possible) or facebook figured out they could just boost a few
       | items to make sure anything embarassing doens 't make the short
       | list.
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | I mean, at that point they could just drop stuff off of the
         | list they didn't like. Does anyone have independently
         | verifiable data to compare against?
        
           | Traster wrote:
           | They link to the page - so if someone can say "Hold on, page
           | X only has N likes/shares, page Y has >N likes/shares!"
           | they'd have problems.
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | The entire existence of the Facebook Transparency report is as
         | a counter to the Facebook Top 10 Twitter account
         | (https://twitter.com/FacebooksTop10) showing that Facebook
         | tends to surface right-wing content.
         | 
         | Facebook prefers to be known for facilitating spam than right-
         | wing content.
        
         | mitchdoogle wrote:
         | The purpose of this report is to show widely-viewed content.
         | Maybe the embarrassing stuff is not as widely-viewed as you
         | imagine.
        
           | Traster wrote:
           | Well what I'm saying is... if it _were_ would facebook tell
           | you? Or would they find a way to produce a report that tells
           | you something else? As another commentor points out - the
           | independent version of this consistently ends up listing
           | right wing content.
        
       | hirundo wrote:
       | "Facebook flipped a switch, favoring comments and reactions over
       | shares, and suddenly a food blogger from Utah became the largest
       | publisher in the country, if not the world."
       | 
       | While the firehose volume is disproportionate, the direction
       | wasn't random. Whoever is copywriting these messages is an
       | artist, drawing an outstanding number of responses. I felt the
       | urge to react when I read them and bravely restrained myself.
       | There's a lot of power in asking someone the right personal
       | question.
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | > _I felt the urge to react when I read them and bravely
         | restrained myself._
         | 
         | You feel an urge to react at bizarro twilight zone non-sequitur
         | text posts?
         | 
         | I'm sitting here trying to fathom why millions of people would
         | even react to something like that. Like... what was "thumbs up"
         | worthy in any of those?
        
           | brendoelfrendo wrote:
           | I mean, the "who here has never had a DUI?" question is
           | tailored for engagement. The actual % of people who have had
           | a DUI is really low, and so the number of people who can
           | engage with that honestly is really high. Then there's the
           | fact that DUIs tend to evoke a strong moral response, so
           | people will dive into the comments to wag the finger at all
           | the DUI havers.
           | 
           | We're all here commenting on posts about tech and tech-
           | adjacent concerns, so the community is pretty niche and
           | interesting (to us). This is what you get when someone crafts
           | content for _literally everyone_ , and you'd be right to find
           | it simultaneously bland and bizarre. But people, it turns
           | out, do engage with it.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Reminds me of those posts from a few years ago that were
             | like:                   "[Simple math problem, like what's
             | 5 x 4?]: 95% of people can't solve this! I bet you can't
             | either!"
             | 
             | With hundreds of thousands of commenters "engaging" with
             | it. I don't understand anything about this behavior. 1.
             | What does the poster have to gain from a post like that, 2.
             | What do all the commenters have to gain, and 3. What does
             | SocialMediaCompany gain? The promise of social media is
             | long dead. It seems to now just be bots (or people who
             | behave as bots) responding to bots (or people who behave as
             | bots)... everywhere.
        
               | kingcharles wrote:
               | The poster gains by getting a large amount of interaction
               | with their page, which is certainly a ranking factor for
               | future posts. e.g. SocialMediaCompany will say "This new
               | post by Poster will get higher placement because their
               | previous posts were enjoyed (interacted with) by many
               | people, and therefore Poster must be producing good
               | content."
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | Well, for (1) the poster gets engagement from low-effort
               | posts. The end game is usually monetizing their social
               | media presence, and though there's multiple ways to do
               | that, they all involve getting eyes on your page.
               | 
               | Your (2) should be evident from the phrasing of your
               | example: if 95% of people can't do it, people want to
               | prove they're in the 5%. They get a few minutes'
               | distraction, some self-satisfaction, and maybe some
               | conversation. I'm not going to play psychologist, but
               | that's enough for some folks. And it really only has to
               | be some: if your post is seen 32 million people and 30
               | million dismiss it, you still got 2 million people to
               | engage.
               | 
               | (3) is, I guess, money again? Active users means
               | SocialMediaCompany can tout the value of their platform
               | to advertising partners. The bot problem is a good
               | observation, though, because platforms with a reputation
               | for bots are less valuable to advertisers who want human
               | attention. People who _act like_ bots are probably great
               | for advertisers, though, so idk; maybe that 's a wash.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | erulabs wrote:
           | I mean, you must see the primal appeal - essentially the
           | posts are "haha, who else does {{COMMON_THING}}?!". Millions
           | of people want other people to know they too are just like
           | them.
           | 
           | Facebook's algorithm is optimized for engagement - but people
           | aren't desperate to engage - they are desperate _to be
           | engaged with_.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | deathanatos wrote:
             | > _I mean, you must see the primal appeal - essentially the
             | posts are "haha, who else does {{COMMON_THING}}?!"_
             | 
             | No, and I feel like I'm explaining to the AI what human
             | behavior looks like here. Yes, the sort of meme discussion
             | you quote is fairly common, but it's not just "common
             | thing", it's some sort of shared experience that's probably
             | private; you're not _sure_ if everyone else experiences it,
             | but saying you experience it might sound weird to others,
             | and the (usually unneeded) thoughts of potential
             | embarrassment maybe prevents you from doing so. Until
             | someone does, in such a post, and yeah, those take off as
             | the day 's lucky 10000 are all sighing a collective "I'm
             | not weird!" sigh of relief. Eye floaters come to mind as an
             | example.
             | 
             | But ... that's not the case here. "Who the heck sleeps with
             | a Fan (sic) and AC on?". Heck, that odd capitalization just
             | makes it even more uncanny valley. Like Zuckerberg really
             | is a robot, and he's just tried a new social subroutine out
             | on me.
             | 
             | Who the heck eats Food?
        
         | seltzered_ wrote:
         | not trying to make a conspiracy theory, but the Utah
         | association is interesting considering how many lifestyle
         | influencers are supposedly Mormon :
         | https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/1442840097032921088
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | I agree - The author hits at topics that are somewhat
         | controversial but at the same time everyone has a story. I
         | suspect, and I could be wrong, but majority of the comments on
         | that DUI post are people over the age of 40 or 50. They all
         | want to share their story of how drinking and driving wasn't a
         | big issue when they grew up, that their dad always had a drink
         | in hand. People love to talk about themselves and this topic,
         | combined with that audience creates a lot of "nostalgia" for
         | lack of a better term.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Have you ever seen the posts? Some relatives comment on them so
         | they show up on my feed, but the post will be something like
         | "do you like dogs or cats better?" And my aunt and 10 million
         | other people will make a post just saying "cat" or "dog"
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | when I see these posts i always figured it was a kind of bot-net
       | role call. imagine you pay a contractor for one million sock
       | puppets and you want to check how many of them aren't
       | shadowbanned - the bots already follow each other and are
       | programmed to "engage" with posts their bot-friends engage with,
       | so it becomes a follow the leader effect, and allows the
       | purchaser of a botnet to inspect their army, kind of like Obi-Wan
       | getting a tour of the Kaminoan's clone army after finding the
       | official records were deleted from the archive.
       | 
       | no official list of which accounts are bots == check the size of
       | the network myself, and if a few million retirees get caught up
       | in the net, all the better for camouflage
       | 
       | just a conjecture :)
        
         | h2odragon wrote:
         | Interesting notion. I've seen people speculating on "WTF are
         | these nonsensical google ads about", perhaps botnet C&C could
         | be an answer there too.
        
       | creato wrote:
       | I greatly enjoyed this sentence:
       | 
       | > The one mystery we weren't able to figure out is why any sane
       | person working at Facebook would feel comfortable publishing a
       | content report that admitted that the most viral publisher on its
       | platform this year was a barely active drop-shipping scam page
       | full of stolen video content run by an LLC that doesn't even
       | exist anymore.
        
         | mdaidc wrote:
         | When corporations hide facts we call them immoral, and when
         | they publish the facts we are scratching our heads?
         | 
         | Facebook does a lot of internal research which to me seems to
         | be coming from a good place. Doing that research carries a lot
         | of risk for them; e.g. the recent 'whistleblowers' mainly
         | leaked that exact research reports. But instead of giving
         | Facebook credit for even doing that, we always take a negative
         | approach.
         | 
         | Note: I don't like facebook, I don't even have a facebook
         | account, but unless we encourage good behavior (even at places
         | we dont' like) how do we expect things to get better?
        
           | dan-robertson wrote:
           | Yeah I also find it surprising that people are shocked that
           | Facebook have internal studies into e.g. whether instagram
           | causes depression in teenage girls (answer: inconclusive),
           | like they're a bad company for investigating whether their
           | products have negative effects on people...
        
             | xmprt wrote:
             | The shock is that someone at Meta looked into these studies
             | and decided not to take actions to fix it because it might
             | hurt their revenue.
        
               | aierou wrote:
               | We are told again and again that correlation is not
               | causation, but we readily ignore this maxim when we are
               | looking for an account that we hope is true. At a time
               | when Facebook is regularly vilified (sometimes
               | deservedly), wanting to believe that its practices have
               | caused teenagers' mental health to suffer is
               | understandable. But wanting doesn't make it so.
               | 
               | [0]:
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/10/opinion/instagram-
               | faceboo...
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | rand49an wrote:
             | Didn't their own research show that it made 13% of teenage
             | girls who use the platform seriously depressed?
        
               | jefftk wrote:
               | The reporting on this study has been terrible. It was a
               | really small study of female teenage Instagram users who
               | reported having various problems. Of them, 13% blamed
               | Instagram for making things worse, which was actually
               | less than the number that said Instagram made things
               | better. And this is all based on self-reported data
               | anyway, so none of us should be taking it very seriously.
        
             | Marvin_Martian wrote:
             | Its more that people are shocked* that facebook
             | communicated to the outside that such problems were
             | nonexistent, despite knowing that this was a lie.
             | 
             | *not sure wether shocked is the right term to begin with,
             | it seemed more like indignation to me.
        
               | dan-robertson wrote:
               | Did they actually know it was a lie? E.g.
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/10/opinion/instagram-
               | faceboo...
        
               | aierou wrote:
               | Thank you for this article. I was beginning to lose hope
               | that there was anyone with a measured view on this issue.
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | The shock comes because it doesn't fit the narrative that
             | Facebook is all evil, all the time. Nuance, complexity, and
             | evenness are lost on some. No one and nothing is all bad
             | all the time.
        
             | A_non_e-moose wrote:
             | I think the shock is how old the reports are, and how since
             | then things have not changed, but in fact worsened.
        
           | creato wrote:
           | In hindsight, I can see this quote is generating a lot of
           | discussion about the content reporting, but I intended to
           | focus the latter part of the sentence, which I thought really
           | highlights the ridiculousness of social media.
        
           | jancsika wrote:
           | > When corporations hide facts we call them immoral
           | 
           | Not really.
           | 
           | When corporations hide externalities that negatively impact
           | the entire population we call them immoral.
           | 
           | I mean, nobody has ever called KFC immoral for having "secret
           | spices."
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | Just because you were honest with your partner about cheating
           | on them doesn't mean they have to stay with you. That isn't a
           | mixed message about whether your partner wants to hear the
           | truth or not. You're not being punished for telling the truth
           | about what you did, you're being punished for what you did.
        
           | stefan_ wrote:
           | I think you are just missing the backstory. Of course if you
           | are approaching what Facebook does with naivety you end up
           | sounding.. naive.
           | 
           | The whole reason this report was put out by Facebook in the
           | first place is because people used their own tool Crowdtangle
           | to point out how the most popular pages of all were pushing
           | political and medical misinformation to billions and were run
           | by foreign spam mills. So they gutted Crowdtangle and
           | published this report cleansed of any reference to
           | "questionable" pages. But as a previous submission [1]
           | showed, the numbers they state don't add up. And as this
           | submission shows, if you dig into what Facebook wants to tell
           | you is popular, it's all still the most garbage, devoid of
           | value scam content - and it is their algorithm that is
           | promoting it above all.
           | 
           | 1: https://ethanzuckerman.com/2021/08/18/facebooks-new-
           | transpar...
        
         | Causality1 wrote:
         | They're not paid to care.
        
           | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
           | Even worse: They're paid to not care.
        
             | mitchdoogle wrote:
             | When conducting scientific research, I'd think "not caring"
             | is a desirable trait. You don't want anyone's personal
             | feelings to get in the way of reporting accurate
             | information.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | I think this is just being pedantic. You have to care
               | about something to formulate and test a hypothesis. You
               | have to care about what the data say to bother gathering
               | them and collating them into some report in the first
               | place. "To care" can be "to be curious about something"
               | or "to have an interest in something", not just "to be
               | concerned about something."
        
               | mitigating wrote:
               | No, you have to be interested in something. Caring
               | implies that you have an emotional desire for the
               | hypothesis to be either true or false and that leads to
               | bias. Scientific interest drives motivation.
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | Burying the lead, to be sure.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | Every reply so far has missed the point of this sentence, so
         | here it is:
         | 
         | Facebook reporting accurately is sane, but Facebook is in
         | charge of what is being reported, which is not sane.
         | 
         | Like, imagine if your friend was slowly poisoning himself by
         | flavoring his food with lead for a month. Even if he is honest
         | with you about what he's been doing, it's still not a sane
         | situation. If anything it's _less_ sane to be seemingly lucid
         | and forthright about a month of self-destructive behavior, but
         | not actually do anything to change it.
         | 
         | The question here is: why did Facebook allow the situation to
         | get so bad that this page was the top for a whole month? Why
         | didn't someone at Facebook notice this stupid pointless scam
         | page was surging and do even a little of research and tweaking
         | to change that?
         | 
         | They have seemingly abandoning any responsibility for the
         | behavior of the machine they built and operate. Personally I
         | don't give them many points for just reporting that.
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | It's more complicated than that. Facebook is a company.
           | People in different parts of the company do different things,
           | have different motivations, etc. One cannot look at a large
           | organization as an individual. I tried to come up with a more
           | apt analogy... but analogies are awful here.
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | So, probably lots of people actually did notice it, and
             | either (a) shrugged and thought "not my job", or (b)
             | notified someone else about it, who then did (a)?
        
               | xmprt wrote:
               | Which is totally fair in my opinion. It is no single
               | individual's job to fix an issue this big and I don't
               | think it's even feasible for a single person to do at a
               | company like this. And if management hasn't set up
               | incentives for people to proactively fix issues like this
               | then they probably won't get fixed. Upper management can
               | and should fix these issues but they probably don't care
               | because they don't think it's an issue.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | There's also likely a (c), which is people who don't
               | think that Facebook _should_ do anything about it. I
               | guess that could be considered part of a set with (a),
               | but I thought it should be mentioned separately as it 's
               | a different motivation.
        
               | kreeben wrote:
               | Might I suggest (d): analysts, disgusted by the fact this
               | crap is on top, tweaked The Feed in an attempt to
               | disfavor that type of content then ran a simulation but
               | saw their simulated ad revenue become lower than allowed
               | minimum, then did (a) and went out to have lunch.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | "It is difficult to get a man to understand something,
               | when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
               | 
               | - Upton Sinclair
               | 
               | In particular, stare too hard at that viral page, realize
               | how scummy that page is, and then spend the rest of a
               | career at facebook trying to tear down the systems that
               | made that the most viral page, are likely going to earn
               | you enemies, and cause the company to lose money (in the
               | short term, at least).
        
               | IncRnd wrote:
               | Did you stare at that page on Facebook? The top post has
               | millions of comments.
        
             | cj wrote:
             | If it were a tiny thing that slipped under the radar, I'd
             | buy it, but if my company were being dinged in the media
             | every day for spreading misinformation, I would make sure
             | the whole company is hyperaware of how misinformation
             | spreads... which is often through viral posts and pages. I
             | don't think this sort of oversight is something to blame on
             | corporate bureaucracy.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | maybe these junk posts are all that's left to boost after
               | tamping down the obvious misinformation and political
               | propaganda
        
           | thinkloop wrote:
           | It doesn't seem like facebook pumped the whole page, all
           | other posts have extremely low engagement, literally < 10
           | likes. What's wrong with pumping individual "good" posts? If
           | anything it can be seen as honorable/egalitarian giving folks
           | a chance to make it even if they aren't some media behemoth.
        
             | jonas21 wrote:
             | This is the central tragedy of Facebook.
             | 
             | They set out to build a platform where anyone, no matter
             | how small, could compete with big media on a level playing
             | field based on a straightforward metric: whether a user
             | cares enough about a post that they're willing to engage
             | with it. Publishers get rewarded for producing compelling
             | content, users get to see more content they care about, and
             | Facebook makes money since people spend more time on the
             | site. Everybody wins.
             | 
             | And they succeeded wildly at this. But as it turns out, the
             | things people respond to most are spam and hate and
             | conspiracy theories.
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | I'm really not sure if that was ever what Facebook set
               | out to do.
               | 
               | My mental construct of Facebook is analogous to Morty
               | following the path defined by the death crystal but
               | towards the end goal of 'the most money'.
        
               | krolden wrote:
               | Collect data
        
               | netizen-936824 wrote:
               | And collecting data leads to what in this day and age?
               | 
               | Collecting money.
        
           | MrAwesome wrote:
           | Ex-FB here. My guess is that it's primarily a combination of
           | two factors:
           | 
           | 1) Someone / some org was slow to notice that this was
           | happening. 2) Bureaucratic muck slowed resolution down. Even
           | once escalated, there would be a _lot_ of red tape to go
           | through to make the necessary changes to how things are
           | ranked. The people noticing the problem most likely aren 't
           | the people able to make changes, the changes would need to be
           | tested at scale and their effects evaluated, and the people
           | making the changes would have a lot of deliberating,
           | politicking, explaining, and appeasing to do. Add onto that
           | that everyone is stressed out of their minds, worried about
           | performance reviews, and having to balance changes they want
           | to make against how they and everyone else are evaluated at
           | perf time...
        
             | MauranKilom wrote:
             | Ok, but all that must also be true for the change that
             | originally created this situation. There's all this red
             | tape and large-scale testing and then... nobody _actually_
             | looks at what hits the #1 spot?
        
               | space_fountain wrote:
               | Remember spam is an adversarial relationship. Almost
               | certainly when whatever ranking change was exploited here
               | was deployed the top ranked items were great, then some
               | actor started realizing what was being selected for and
               | exploited it
        
             | addingnumbers wrote:
             | > Even once escalated, there would be a lot of red tape to
             | go through to make the necessary changes to how things are
             | ranked.
             | 
             | When I write a program that accidentally gradually fills a
             | disk with garbage, I don't wait until I can redesign the
             | program before I delete the garbage.
        
               | netizen-936824 wrote:
               | Yea, but does the garbage earn you money on ad views?
        
         | avalys wrote:
         | Well, perhaps whoever generated this report was simply
         | reporting the truth and not trying to fabricate or distort the
         | truth in order to make Facebook look better?
         | 
         | The fact that the author of the linked article apparently just
         | presumes that they would do so and "[can't] figure out" why
         | they wouldn't says a lot about their own integrity.
        
           | mitchdoogle wrote:
           | I don't think it says anything about their own integrity. I
           | think it's just a tongue-in-cheek remark about how this
           | information makes Facebook look ridiculous.
        
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