[HN Gopher] How Google designed its wildfire feature for Maps
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       How Google designed its wildfire feature for Maps
        
       Author : agomez314
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2021-11-22 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (about.google)
 (TXT) w3m dump (about.google)
        
       | andylynch wrote:
       | It's nice I'm sure but when I saw this appear while standing in
       | the centre of town in the rain I wondered whether this is really
       | the most useful layer option to add? (On a more constructive note
       | in this part of the world _flood_ warnings would generally be
       | more useful. )
       | 
       | Even better once activated it glitches out if you're not in
       | California and asks you to zoom out until it's on the map.
        
       | bit_logic wrote:
       | This is nice, but can Google do a better job covering the basics?
       | Their weather widget used to display air quality (AQI) a few
       | years ago (2018), then it suddenly disappeared one day:
       | https://9to5google.com/2018/11/11/google-weather-missing-air...
       | 
       | It seems they care enough about wildfire data to make this big
       | update for Maps, but can't do something this basic? Their
       | headquarters is in one of the most affected regions in Caifornia
       | by wildfires (they had an orange sky last year), and no one at
       | Google headquarters thought that maybe showing AQI in the weather
       | widget should be restored? (it's not even a new feature, just
       | bring back the old AQI panel). What's the problem here, too
       | simple for someone's promo-packet?
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | On iOS and iPadOS the weather app displays the information (you
         | will have to scroll.down from the location).
        
           | Angostura wrote:
           | Also shows on Maps
        
         | yegle wrote:
         | Looks like this is returning at least on Google Home Hub/Max:
         | https://9to5google.com/2021/09/06/google-nest-hub-aqi/
         | 
         | I've switched to use PurpleAir instead. It's likely the AQI on
         | Google Home Hub/Max is also sourcing the data from PurpleAir.
         | 
         | Disclaimer: I work for Google but not on anything this AQI
         | related.
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | This is great but why is there not a weather radar layer in
       | Google Maps? Is it because they don't want to compete with the
       | plethora of weather apps?
        
         | thedougd wrote:
         | Always wondered the same. This feature would be amazing on
         | Android Auto.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | Can you describe why it would be useful in Android Auto?
           | 
           | Google Maps seems quite car-centric to me, and most weather
           | doesn't affect people who are traveling via automobile. Rain
           | would not change my plans; but freeway closures would, and
           | the latter is already present.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | Fog, rain, sleet, ice, snow, tornadoes can all impact
             | travel plans. Not often, admittedly, but I've changed my
             | route based on most of those.
        
       | hparadiz wrote:
       | Would be nice if I could zoom out on the entire state of
       | California and see at least a label showing where the fire is and
       | not force me to zoom in to see it.
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | > Yossi Matias and others from his team immediately took action
       | and within hours launched the first emergency OneBox on Google
       | Search. It included emergency information and a hand-drawn map of
       | the fire's location, which was manually updated in collaboration
       | with a local TV station throughout the fire's 77-hour duration.
       | 
       | I love this. Do the thing, and worry about doing it the right way
       | later.
       | 
       | You would not believe the amount of multimillion dollar products
       | or features started out as a Excel spreadsheets being mailed back
       | and forth and manually input to something.
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | Is this really the best policy with time and safety critical
         | situations? Wildfire maps already exist, why not link to that?
         | Who cares if you get it right _eventually_ if you get it wrong
         | when it matters?
        
       | jlarocco wrote:
       | Okay. But https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/ has been around for years and
       | gets its data directly from the firefighting teams working the
       | fires.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | Yeah, as someone who watches the California fires live, Google
         | was very late to the game with this one and their maps aren't
         | very detailed. There are dozens of good providers of MODIS and
         | VIIRS maps with loads of additional features (like histories)
         | that update immediately. Google's is the most bland and slow of
         | them all.
        
       | tholman wrote:
       | All for extra tools to help in emergency situations, that said I
       | would also like it if I could see street names without zooming to
       | a microscopic level which could be helpful in these situations
       | especially.
        
         | dmckeon wrote:
         | I would be happy with a brief persistence of street names at a
         | larger scale when zooming in. IOW, when zooming, street names
         | to persist at the larger, zoomed in size for 400..800 ms or so,
         | then shrinking to the typical size. Don't know if that is
         | possible with whatever map layers are now in use.
        
           | mulmen wrote:
           | No thanks. Make the names visible at all times. Apple Maps is
           | infuriating to use while driving because there is no clear
           | indication of scale and it constantly zooms in and out. Do I
           | need to turn now or in a few seconds or a minute? Impossible
           | to tell at a glance. Changing scale should be done rarely. I
           | don't look at my cell phone every 800ms while driving.
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | Both Google and Apple Maps are poorly named. They are not maps
         | at all. They are navigation services at best. Location
         | sensitive marketing platforms at worst.
        
         | lucasisola wrote:
         | Lol. I was coming to the comments section for this. There must
         | be some challenge here that isn't immediately obvious because I
         | feel that no one has solved this well.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | Apple Maps does this really well (at least for NYC). It's the
           | only reason I keep it installed, to look at street names
           | while using Google Maps
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | rudian wrote:
           | I'm confident it's two reasons:
           | 
           | - too many street names make for a noisy/busy/ugly map, and
           | we all know maps _must be beautiful and nothing else_
           | 
           | - streets don't pay for ads, businesses do, so between the
           | two they prefer showing the latter.
           | 
           | Technically now you can tap anywhere on the map once to place
           | a pin and get more info; In practice tapping in Google Maps
           | has become horrendous, it never does what you expect. One
           | such example is tapping on a business near a "walkable area":
           | you can't. The area will always focus instead, even if
           | painted behind the business.
        
           | bsedlm wrote:
           | > There must be some challenge here that isn't immediately
           | obvious
           | 
           | the challenge is profit maximization, this to emphasize it is
           | not a technical challenge (earlier versions of maps were good
           | at this)
        
         | gordon_freeman wrote:
         | And adding STOP and road SIGNAL signs to the maps please too.
         | Apple Maps does it for a while.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | If you're willing to sacrifice other features in favor of
         | configurable display* and better hiking trail coverage,
         | OpenStreetMap has the kind of design that tries to show
         | everything at once that most people find awful to look at. I've
         | gotten used to it and to me Google Maps is just empty, I can't
         | find anything, basically the problem you describe.
         | 
         | * with OsmAnd at least, the most popular app for it. The
         | official website at osm.org is more of a demo to show what's in
         | the database than really meant to be a gmaps replacement,
         | though there are still a few rendering styles to choose from on
         | the right.
        
       | topkai22 wrote:
       | I've been getting some sort of advocacy ads using wildfire maps
       | on Google as an example of something that pending US legislation
       | would take away. The details eluded (the ads may need work.) But
       | I suspect this article is tied to that. campaign.
       | 
       | Anyone know exactly what legislation Google is worried about?
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | Too many to count.
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/search?q=google%20antitrust+law
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | They're talking about the "Ending Platform Monopolies Act"
         | popularly known (in my circles anyway) as the "Yelp Welfare
         | Act". The bill would make it effectively impossible for Google
         | to have any features that overlap with any conceivable
         | competitors, so if for example there was some wildfire maps
         | service, anywhere, no matter how obscure or useless, then
         | Google Maps would have to give it equal billing over its own
         | wildfire maps. This is because the Act makes it an illegal
         | conflict of interest to own a platform and "exclude from, or
         | disadvantage, the products, services, or lines of business on
         | the covered platform of a competing business or a business that
         | constitutes nascent or potential competition to the covered
         | platform operator".
        
       | dgaudet wrote:
       | FWIW the peakbagger app (android, ios) includes excellent fire
       | and smoke layers. andrew has added these features over the past
       | few years as fires have complicated the quest for peaks.
       | 
       | caltopo.com is another great tool with fire layers, useful for
       | planning hikes in affected areas.
        
       | jyu wrote:
       | Is there an alerts feature for this, similar to Ring neighbors?
        
       | etskinner wrote:
       | Meanwhile, Google shut down its crisis map earlier this year[1].
       | 
       | So now, instead of being able to go there to see if there was any
       | information about a developing crisis, you have to first know
       | what's going on so you know what to search, and only then will it
       | show you some information.
       | 
       | [1] https://9to5google.com/2021/02/17/google-crisis-map/
        
         | bsedlm wrote:
         | I highly doubt they shut it down, they probably just closed off
         | public access
        
           | jvvw wrote:
           | I remember going to a talk given by the developer of
           | something similar (can't remember the name of the site,
           | sorry, but was given at a university, so probably a charity
           | or public sector project of some sort) and apparently there
           | are lots of issues with making data about this type of thing
           | publicly available because there are malevolent parties who
           | will try and take advantage of information about such
           | situations in certain ways. Think they said a lot more - the
           | talk was a while ago, but it was an angle that I hadn't
           | thought about and I recall they had to have a screening
           | process for whom they made information available to.
           | 
           | (Edit: this is the talk: http://stadium.open.ac.uk/stadia/pre
           | view.php?s=29&whichevent...)
        
         | wodow wrote:
         | https://www.crisiscleanup.org/map is a kind-of alternative,
         | based on private data. It lets you start from a list of recent
         | natural disasters (in the US).
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | Tangentially related: there is also a loosely organised team
           | helping to map crisis areas for getting aid and charting
           | where people live(d) that might need help.
           | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | it seems like the only useful information conveyed on that view
         | is somebody wondering where in the world there is a crisis that
         | they can spectate on. a colour-coded map of where you can go in
         | the world to find a problem seems like it's feeding an
         | unhealthy way of consuming information.
         | 
         | google maps does an excellent job of showing crisis information
         | _where it 's relevant_. if you don't know enough about a crisis
         | to google it or find it on a map, it's probably not relavant to
         | you.
        
           | PeterCorless wrote:
           | There _does_ need to be a global crisis  "weather map." I
           | proposed such a solution back in the 2011-2012 timeframe. It
           | needs to be a data-centric system similar to Wikipedia, and,
           | in fact, could and should integrate with other open source,
           | public and crowdsourced information systems like Wikipedia.
           | 
           | Whether the maps are provided by Google Maps or Open Street
           | Map or any other project should matter less than there should
           | be a publicly discoverable way to find out how current and
           | emergent crises will affect their lives.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | I found this to be one of the most annoying features ever
       | implemented in Google Maps. I was traveling across Colorado last
       | summer and the persistent, annoying, inaccurate, irrelevant, and
       | useless wildfire alerts made us switch to Apple maps, which has a
       | whole slew of legit complaints and missing features. There wasn't
       | a single scenario where this provided any value and only stood to
       | make get vital information harder. To make things worse, like
       | most things from Silicon Valley, there was no way to opt out, as
       | ego reigns supreme.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | But the wildfire layer is just that, a layer. You can turn it
         | off. It's not even on by default.
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | They might have been useless to _you_ , but I'd personally err
         | on the side of enabling it by default in the affected areas.
         | I've relied on it in the past for updated info about available
         | escape routes during wildfire season.
         | 
         | There's merit in adding a toggle, but map applications
         | (including g maps) are already very settings-heavy. I'm sure
         | some team is constantly trying to balance against configuration
         | overload.
        
           | mulmen wrote:
           | "Functions at the most basic level" seems like a low bar for
           | making a feature opt-out.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | My bar is that safety-relevant information should probably
             | be enabled by default. Wildfire spread certainly qualifies.
             | 
             | Here's two examples:
             | 
             | During the 2020 fire season Google maps was helpful in
             | tracking the fire spread until we eventually received evac
             | orders via notification. Very useful.
             | 
             | Contrast that with the experience before they had a well-
             | developed crisis program. I had the misfortune to be in
             | Nice for Bastille Day 2016. Google _didn 't_ promptly warn
             | about the terrorist attack and I had to find out from FB /
             | friends. There was a long period of utter confusion because
             | I had personally disabled FB notifications and no one
             | understood the situation or extent of danger.
        
               | mulmen wrote:
               | > I was traveling across Colorado last summer and the
               | persistent, annoying, inaccurate, irrelevant, and useless
               | wildfire alerts made us switch to Apple maps
               | 
               | In a safety-critical situation if the alerts are
               | "persistent, annoying, inaccurate, irrelevant, and
               | useless" are they really beneficial?
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | As I clarified in the original response, while they might
               | have been "persistent, annoying, inaccurate, irrelevant
               | and useless" _to the OP_ , I'd personally err on the side
               | of annoying people vs not providing important information
               | to people who need it.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | Similar experience here with the recent-ish flooding overlay.
         | Icons were more in the way than helpful or accurate. I guess it
         | was helpful for someone who's not from here to get an overview,
         | similar to how I am vaguely interested in where the worst air
         | quality is on a worldwide scale, but this overlay was shown at
         | way more local zoom levels.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-22 23:01 UTC)