[HN Gopher] Taking digital X-ray shots for cheap
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       Taking digital X-ray shots for cheap
        
       Author : _Microft
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2021-11-21 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hackaday.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.io)
        
       | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
       | If the sensor is so small why are the X-ray machines at my
       | hospital almost room sized? You know those huge mechanical arms
       | hanging from the ceiling that look like they could crush you or
       | irradiate you to death.
       | 
       | Also can this project be used on flesh and will I accidentally
       | cook myself doing it?
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | They have dental x-ray sensors[0] that are about 2 cm thick and
         | 4 x 4 inches in size with a usb plug on the other end. You put
         | them in the mouth and then can use a portable x-ray gun[1] to
         | image the tooth to your laptop. No more films or anything like
         | that.
         | 
         | [0]https://www.atlasresell.com/used-dental-
         | equipment/digital-x-...
         | 
         | [1]https://www.kavo.com/en-us/imaging-solutions/kavo-nomad-
         | pro-...
        
         | blululu wrote:
         | The size of an x-ray grows with power for two reasons: higher
         | voltages require much more insulation, and higher energies
         | require much more shielding. In medical contexts shielding is
         | the big issue. I forget the exact figures but the mass
         | attenuation coefficient for large energy is something like
         | Z/E^3, so a dental x-ray at 15 kev will has much less radiation
         | leakage than a chest x-ray at 150 kev. (Note that the beam is
         | not monochromatic and the 1000x change in attenuation passes
         | through an exponential decay relation so it is not a simple
         | relation, but you need a lot of lead to keep the x-ray tech
         | safe).
        
         | jcrawfordor wrote:
         | Besides offering much higher power levels, the bulk of most
         | hospital X-ray equipment seems to just be positioning... i.e.
         | the actual X-ray generator is fairly small (although things
         | like a projected light illuminator to help the technician with
         | aim make it bigger), but there's a lot of "accessory" equipment
         | just to make it easy for the technician to position it in the
         | right place and have it stay there. Ceiling tracks and a
         | specially designed patient bed with a pretty x-ray transparent
         | material that the sensor can be placed under, for example.
         | 
         | Dental X-ray machines for example are very small, but I think
         | it's because they operate at pretty low power and have pretty
         | simple/consistent positioning requirements. Panoramic dental
         | x-ray machines on the other hand are pretty big because of the
         | specific positioning.
         | 
         | On top of that I think a lot of hospitals just have pretty old
         | X-ray machines... they're expensive and can operate for a long
         | time with maintenance and tube replacements. I've seen clinics
         | that upgraded their x-ray process to digital by using a
         | standalone digital sensor like this, but are still using a 20+
         | year old analog machine as the x-ray source. I think that's why
         | this particular sensor doesn't accept triggering information
         | over the digital interface... that seems kind of weird at first
         | glance, but I assume it was designed as a drop-in replacement
         | for film, so it would be used with an older machine that didn't
         | have any kind of digital trigger output. Instead it just
         | detects when the exposure has started. Presumably the manual
         | told the technician what parameters they needed to use on the
         | emitter for it to get a full scan.
         | 
         | The author here mentioned using a hand-held X-ray emitter for
         | sports medicine which I'm curious about because I've never seen
         | such a thing. I assume the power and exposure time must be
         | pretty limited, even the dental X-ray machines have a
         | regulatory requirement that the operator be behind a shield
         | during use---although the implementation is usually pretty lax,
         | just putting the exposure button in the hallway outside the
         | x-ray nook so they have to step outside briefly.
        
           | SiempreViernes wrote:
           | Just stepping away is in all likelihood exactly as much
           | precaution as is needed: the machine itself ought to have
           | shielding in all directions except the for the beam itself,
           | so it doesn't emit significantly in the other directions
           | anyway and getting some distance kills even that on its own.
           | 
           | Honestly, going outside as a way to ensure you don't stand in
           | the beam by mistake might be the most important part.
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | I feel bad for sharing this because it's a master class in things
       | to never do with HV and the creator made a follow-up video
       | mocking commenters criticizing this, but it's similar and
       | interesting.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/IiJAq53knwc
        
         | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
         | That's both hilarious and scary. For his own sake, I hope a lot
         | of it is just a shtick and he is actually much more careful
         | about safety than he admits.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | How safe is playing with this?
        
         | MegaDeKay wrote:
         | The comments in the linked article have response to a question
         | like this that states: "All safety precautions are complied
         | with, also have a dosimeter for direct radiation warnings."
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | I only got partway through the entertaining video, before I had
       | an impulse to pause it and check the YouTube comments about
       | safety.
       | 
       | There's so much of what seemed like poorly-informed belligerence
       | in the YouTube comments, it felt like I was reading foreshadowing
       | of tragedies.
        
       | geocrasher wrote:
       | Since when is "for cheap" the right way to say things. Ugh.
        
         | Stampo00 wrote:
         | According to Google Books Ngram Viewer, the first recorded
         | usage of the phrase "for cheap" was noted in 1672, although
         | that could be part of a longer phrase like "for cheap food".
         | 
         | Usage peaked in 1876. I'm willing to bet that at least some of
         | that usage mirrors how the author is using it.
         | 
         | In conclusion, "for cheap" has been the "right way to say
         | things" since before either of us were born.
         | 
         | https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=for+cheap&year...
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | >In conclusion, "for cheap" has been the "right way to say
           | things" since [...] //
           | 
           | The more people that get it wrong the righter (sic) it is!
           | :eyeroll:
        
             | Stampo00 wrote:
             | Why aren't you speaking Old English?
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | I'm able to solder Ball Grid Arrays at home, after a bit of
       | practice, but I have no way to inspect them. I would love a cheap
       | home Xray machine just for this purpose.
        
       | _Microft wrote:
       | Don't feel bad when you see what some people are able to build in
       | hardware. It's their job (now) - the author is working at
       | NeuraLink these days, building wireless charging for brain
       | implants. (This is meant to say: they are really good at it)
       | 
       | More of their stuff with with x-rays on Twitter:
       | 
       | https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=from%3Alucysrausch%20x-r...
        
         | goldenkey wrote:
         | Why would it matter if it was their job or not? My friend has
         | been doing circuitry since he was a kid. He can run circles
         | around me doing embedded while I can run circles around him
         | when it comes to software. Our jobs are irrelevant, it's our
         | initial interests that caused us to specialize. United, we
         | build awesome stuff together. There's no reason to feel bad
         | when people with different interests have way better skills in
         | their specialties. Instead of feeling bad, form alliances and
         | make awesome stuff together.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-21 23:01 UTC)