[HN Gopher] Vertiwalk Vertical Walking
___________________________________________________________________
Vertiwalk Vertical Walking
Author : hliyan
Score : 793 points
Date : 2021-11-20 02:59 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.vertiwalk.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.vertiwalk.com)
| Borrible wrote:
| So ladies, next try.
|
| Will there be a version you can somehow integrate into a stair-
| case without much structural changes on or in the building?
|
| Then you may outcompete stairlifts.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stairlift
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Totally agree. Could be cantilevered from rails on one side or
| detach from an opposite rail at top/bottom of the run and swing
| out of the way.
| Borrible wrote:
| What I really like about their idea is, the central point of
| that thing is the training effect for still existing bodily
| ressources.
|
| But I think they need to expand their advised market from
| former owners of treadmill desks on HN and their aging
| parents to a broader healthcare audience.
| someuname wrote:
| What do you mean ladies.
| Smaug123 wrote:
| You see "boys" all the time in this context. Why not
| "ladies"?
| Borrible wrote:
| 'Ladies' is a moody sounding, but good humored remark for
| fun, to lighten things up.
|
| A Lady is a Karen.
|
| https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lady
|
| A Karen is a kind of person who is unhappy when little things
| don't go their way.
|
| https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=A%20Karen
|
| You may find some in this thread. Just look at my downvoted
| comments at the end of it.
|
| And sorry, yes, I am aware of the slightly misogynistic
| undertone. But that's okay, because I love this particular
| form of gender whataboutism of the form "I'm not XXX, because
| some of my best friends are xxx." It's perfectly fine to call
| me an asshole in that regard, because some women are
| explicitely my best friends precisely because I call them
| ladies for fun. And otherwise.
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| I was at the Venice Biennale but I missed this! Did anyone see
| it?
| emkoemko wrote:
| get to the dang point... i wanted to see what it was but the
| video kept showing stuff that has nothing to do with what the
| topic, i gave up and left.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Eighty centimeters is 31.5 inches, so a little over 2.5 feet.
| That's fairly compact.
|
| Taking the stairs can be awful when you are impaired and falling
| down stairs just adds new injuries to your problems.
| dwighttk wrote:
| this seems cool...
|
| I hope it is reliable mechanically. It is nice that no
| electricity is required.
|
| I wonder if they could make an electric assist upgrade for people
| who get it installed when they are capable of using it and later
| become less capable.
| Borrible wrote:
| I used to work a lot in health care. In the trenches as a simple
| grunt and later on in the etappe, IT. Lately still some work in
| BI for health insurance.
|
| So pitch me, why should they fund it, when there are exoskeleton
| support systems in a lot of variety and price ranges I can use
| everywhere just around the corner?
|
| I don't mean to be rude, but this is the type and tone of
| questions I sometimes get paid to ask.
| phailhaus wrote:
| It's fundamentally different from an exoskeleton support system
| because it's a fixture of the building itself. It's a public
| utility, not a private suit.
| Borrible wrote:
| That would be dodging to answer my question, which would be a
| red flag.
|
| The question was, why fund a system, that is intended to
| support, train, maintain and strengthen existing skills of
| physically challenged and not some others that may or may not
| be superior?
|
| It's quite simple, people do it everyday. They ask
| themselves, what do I get for the money and why should I give
| it to them?
|
| And you know that.
| asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
| > I don't mean to be rude, but this is the type and tone of
| questions I sometimes get paid to ask.
|
| If other people pay you to be rude to them, that's between you
| and them. But that doesn't mean rudeness is welcome in all
| contexts, and this site is one where it isn't.
|
| As far as the pitch, it seems to me that the video is the
| pitch. I'm sure if you were actually in a position to fund
| their work they'd be happy to talk it through with you in more
| detail. To me this system looks a lot less expensive than an
| exoskeleton, and is also much closer to practical realization.
| Borrible wrote:
| BKK Mobil Oil is a German public health insurance provider,
| rewalk an exoskeleton system.
|
| https://rewalk.com/blog/rewalk-enters-contract-with-bkk-
| mobi...
|
| So it's exoskeletons just around the corner. And they can be
| carried around, so haven't to be build into that corner. You
| may do your own cost comparisons for funding purposes
| considering the wider market for exoskeleton systems in
| logistics, construction, etc. So this is just one example,
| there are a lot more different exoskeleton systems available.
|
| Now I just have to look up, whether there are already
| studies, that tell me about probable health-promoting
| physiotherapeutic effects.
| Borrible wrote:
| Ah, there is one from 2018:
|
| Robotic exoskeletons: The current pros and cons
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153133/
|
| Of course you more often need upper limb or back support
| systems, they are much cheaper:
|
| https://exoskeletonreport.com/product-
| category/exoskeleton-c...
|
| So, there you go.
|
| To strain the metaphor.
| hbarka wrote:
| Would be interested in seeing how one would create the shaft
| required at home, as a DIY project.
| DanielVZ wrote:
| This reminds me a lot of a video of a retired man that uses his
| new free time moving large objects just by leveraging gravity. I
| can't find it right now but I think that there's a potential
| there for new ways movement just like the vertiwalk.
| 0des wrote:
| You talking about the guy who moves the large stones by
| balancing them and pushing them around like that? I think I
| know what you're talking about.
| Cerium wrote:
| Perhaps you are thinking of Wally Wallington? A retired
| carpenter who produced some videos on moving Stonehenge sized
| blocks?
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20160302003628/http://www.thefor...
| pimlottc wrote:
| Thanks for the link, here's a good quick video showing the
| basic principle of moving objects via balance:
| https://youtu.be/9NTm2PZ04iA
| DanielVZ wrote:
| Yeah, that's him.
| bryans wrote:
| That was a great read and reminded me of the Coral Castle. I
| wish there were similar video of Ed moving those coral blocks
| around.
|
| https://coralcastle.com/whos-ed/
| thanhhaimai wrote:
| I think Vertiwalk might be a solution for people who want to
| exercise. But if the main issue is to travel between floors, I
| think installing your own mini elevator might be a better
| solution. It doesn't take much more space, but it's fast and can
| carry the wheel chair with you:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqMZfQODJZo
| hetspookjee wrote:
| I can imagine this is vastly more affordable than a mini
| elevator?
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Probably, but it'll be vastly too expensive for most folks. I
| imagine the construction costs are greater than devices that
| use the stairwell due to design and anyone that lives in a
| rental or otherwise cannot do the construction are out of
| luck.
| coldcode wrote:
| In the Netherlands I believe the government will pay to
| install assistive devices.
| hadlock wrote:
| Elevators of any kind start at the price of a mid-price car and
| quickly spiral in to the hundreds of thousands of dollars,
| depending on certifications and local ordinances. San Francisco
| has seismic sensor/seismic stop requirements on top of regular
| elevators, for example. There is a reason why almost no homes
| have elevators despite the technology being over a century old.
| Borrible wrote:
| Or a stairlift.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stairlift
|
| Should be around five to ten thousand Dollar. Or you lease one
| for the rest of your life for about 50-100$ per month. You do
| the math.
|
| The electric stair climber wheelchairs are unlikely to be a
| competitor because of their price. But still some believe in
| them.
|
| https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/scewo-wheelchair-can...
|
| https://www.scewo.com/en/
|
| But than again, people like do believe in many things.
| BadCookie wrote:
| An average stairwell is not quite wide enough to accommodate
| a stairlift, so I don't think it's a great general solution.
| You also still have the issue of transferring in and out of
| the chair, which can be an issue for some people. I bought a
| house on the premise that I could install a chairlift if
| needed ... and had to sell the house a few years later when
| it turned out that the stairwell really wasn't wide enough
| for it. (The chair would've been majorly in the way of the
| able-bodied people who also needed the stairs.) Admittedly, I
| should have done better due diligence.
| gertrunde wrote:
| Beyond the cost issue mentioned by others, the exercise element
| that you mention is maybe more important than you think - older
| folk often fare better if they can stay active, and this might
| be a subtle way to provide that. Also there's the physical size
| - 80cm x 80cm - retrofitting an elevator into a small property
| has some serious space demands.
| LocalH wrote:
| >older folk often fare better if they can stay active
|
| I can directly vouch for that, in an anecdotal way. My
| mother, in her last months, fought through immense pain to do
| her daily activities. After a four day stay in the hospital
| for a heart-related issue, she was never able to walk
| unassisted again.
| fijiaarone wrote:
| Wouldn't it make sense to call this the "verti-sit"
| twelvechairs wrote:
| Incredible to see such a new device in a space where there has
| been little real invention in 100 years (since the
| elevator/lift).
|
| I'm interested in the building code implications of this. I
| assume you can't replace a staircase with this due to fire egress
| requirements, and at the top you have to have some sort of
| complex gate (notably not shown in the video) to prevent people
| from falling off.
| imiric wrote:
| I don't see it as a replacement for stairs, it's too
| impractical for general use. The only use case seems to be for
| what their demo video shows, people with limited mobility.
| netcan wrote:
| Space requirements are very different to stairs or other
| lifts.
| IshKebab wrote:
| If you had very limited space and no mobility issues
| there's a very cheap solution that has existed probably for
| millennia.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| a helicopter?
| jck wrote:
| Maybe staying downstairs?
| olau wrote:
| Rope with hook. You can even use that when visiting
| friends.
| aflag wrote:
| I think he's talking about a ladder.
| pid-1 wrote:
| I think he means you could pay someone to go upstairs for
| you
| navane wrote:
| is this marketed to the same people that need an electric
| chair because otherwise they can't get up?
| wolverine876 wrote:
| It's of those technologies so obvious, I don't understand why
| it's new. Often that signals genius or my ignorance:
|
| Why now? Often the answer is, another tech's development enabled
| this one. Is that the case? They say here only:
|
| > Vertical Walking is a new system to move yourself between
| floors in a building. By exploiting the potential of the human
| body and materials, only a fraction of effort is required,
| compared to taking stairs. No external energy is needed.
|
| Maybe they use a capacitor? When going down, brakes store energy
| that supplements muscle power when going up? If that's the
| design, why not do it 20 or 40 years ago?
|
| Perhaps it replaces stairs in constrained footprints, like dense
| urban housing, where stairs consume high proportions of space.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Did you watch the video? I get it's annoying not being able to
| scrub, but (one minute into the video) you can see that it's a
| simple system.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| I did watch it. I don't know what you mean about scrubbing it
| - I didn't mention that.
|
| > you can see that it's a simple system
|
| It looks simple to operate, but if you mean it's simple to
| design or construct, what do you see?
| gridspy wrote:
| Simplest way to store energy for ascent is a counterweight,
| similar to existing lifts. That rope can also be used as an
| emergency stop.
| stuartbman wrote:
| I can see the use of this for neurological disease, but far and
| away the most common reason for a stairlift is frailty (or
| sarcopenia, to be more precise) along with other musculoskeletal
| conditions like osteoarthritis. Generally in sarcopenia you lose
| much more quadriceps strength, such that you find it difficult to
| stand up out of a chair, which is precisely the motion of how
| this is propelled. I'd therefore find this difficult to justify.
|
| Secondly, stairlifts work because they are retrofitted into
| people's homes. This would require quite considerable changes to
| fit, and possibly loss of an upstairs room to make it work.
| robbmorganf wrote:
| I love this idea, particularly empowering people to move without
| feeling like they need electrical assistance.
|
| If this is to become a widespread product, I think it needs to
| address two linked issues: (a) the product appears to be tuned to
| the specific weight of an individual, so that the
| counterweights/springs are neutral in use. Changing between
| individuals (or changing weight should the individual gain/lose
| weight) should be easy to do and hopefully transparent. (b) the
| product can't be accessed if it is on a different floor. Without
| the weight of a user, if unlocked, it would skyrocket upwards. I
| don't want to lock into the paradigms of an elevator, but the
| user needs to be able to access the product even if another user
| moved it.
|
| Unfortunately, the only thought I have to solve these issues is
| to electrify it, or perhaps a clever hydraulic system. In any
| case, I think with batteries, it need not consume power from the
| grid.
| toss1 wrote:
| While electric or hydraulic would be the easy way to make it
| move on its own when it's on the wrong floor, but not the only
| way. I'm sure that a system with a rope, pulley, and latching
| could be used to move it up or down just fine, albeit a bit
| more slowly. For moving from the higher to the lower level, one
| could design a setup so it just ratchets itself down with
| gravity, just clicking down a few cm at a time instead of just
| releasing and falling down, and this could also serve as a bit
| of a safe/speedy descent mode if the user can't do the whole
| motion one day. For ascending, just releasing the catch and
| pulling up on a pully/winch with a ratcheting mechanism would
| get it up there fine.
|
| I _really_ like these designers ' ethos of not using
| electricity, and it'd be best to keep that intact as
| capabilities are added.
| robbmorganf wrote:
| I think it currently stores energy in a spring, hence helping
| the user go up and recovering energy on the way down.
|
| I was just suggesting that if the energy can be stored in a
| battery or hydraulic accumulator, it's easier to change the
| "counterweight" force. In both cases, I think it can be done
| without any net assistance from the electrical grid.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Much better video here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whk2o98zlpc
|
| Literally worthless hero video on the linked site.
| bradknowles wrote:
| That requires a lot of upper body strength, which isn't common
| amongst people who would tend to need assistive technology in
| getting upstairs.
|
| Moreover, it doesn't have a reset mechanism, in case you've
| used it and gone upstairs, and then someone else needs to use
| it.
|
| It also requires carving a vertical shaft into your house, so
| that you can place the equipment.
|
| People should ask Zack about the system he installed for his
| wife: https://youtu.be/aqMZfQODJZo
| Eelongate wrote:
| If the user has a medical emergency while between floors and is
| unable to continue using this device themselves, will it be
| easy/safe for responders to get them down?
| wstrom wrote:
| If you are from the south or a hunter - this is just an indoor
| tree stand - nothing new. I hope it helps people.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| Squatting while climbing up does not sound fun to me. I think
| just providing something like geared pulley with 1:20 ratio will
| work and is much simpler. Just pull down the chain with bit of
| force and it will lift you up slowly.
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| Can old people do this? I think my Mom and Dad would be terrified
| of this.
| tomcam wrote:
| Your Mom would be surprisingly accepting of the idea, but yeah,
| you're right about your Dad.
| teddyh wrote:
| This seems too unpowered to be the best option in places with
| reliable electric power, and for places without reliable electric
| power, this looks too complex to be reliably repaired without a
| service infrastructure. And if you have that, you probably have
| reliable electric power. In short, it _looks_ like a solution
| looking for a problem.
| imgabe wrote:
| This is probably an order of magnitude less expensive to
| install than anything that requires power. Also a lot of people
| might not have as reliable power as they think (see Austin last
| winter).
|
| If you can use something less complex with fewer requirements
| that's usually better. Do the simplest thing that solves the
| problem.
| Zababa wrote:
| If it's cheaper than the other alternatives then it has a
| place.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| It probably isn't though. My mother in law's stairlift was
| installed in a couple of hours along the normal stairs. There
| was no building work to create a shaft needed. It was cheap.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Reengineer this mechanism to run along inclined rails.
|
| If cantilevering from rails on one side is impractical,
| make it detach from the opposite rail at the top/bottom and
| swing out of the way.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| This is key - they didn't have to do construction and make
| a shaft with the chairlift. That'll put the prices up.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| May I ask price, at what part of the USA are you in?
|
| I foresee buying one.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| The requirements for space (a column of free area 80cm by
| 80cm) are so small that I don't even think they make
| elevators that small.
| aranazo wrote:
| You don't have 80cm between normal floor joists so
| installation in a regular house could be complex and
| expensive. If you are designing a multistory new build
| specifically for the elderly leaving a space for a solution
| like this to be installed/uninstalled in the future could
| be added to building standards.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| sure, I'm just saying that a elevator normally takes up
| much more space and is therefore more expensive to start
| with.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| as the website itself points out one of the explicit purposes
| is to keep people moving and exercising. Keeping people mobile
| (like the MS affected woman in the clip) is a great idea.
|
| One of the worst things for people who are already impaired is
| to be overly sedentary because it accelerates function loss. It
| doesn't surprise me at all that this is coming out of the
| Netherlands by the way, a country that has a strong culture of
| keeping people healthy and active.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| yes, the Netherlands is a beacon of human-scale and human-
| oriented urban development
| (https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes documents this really
| well) and this invention fits in nicely with that
| perspective.
| kabdib wrote:
| I think I'd hate to have to rescue someone from a Vertiwalk when
| they're midway between floors and having a medical emergency.
|
| I'm sure there's an accommodation for this, maybe a belay system
| somewhere, but I didn't spot one.
| bborud wrote:
| Very, very interesting idea since this is probably easy to
| retrofit to houses that don't have room for elevators.
|
| But I think the video does a poor job of marketing the product.
| Too much "storytelling", they spend too much time "laying pipe"
| and the payoff is marred by "artistic" shots where clarity would
| serve better.
|
| And you can kind of understand how poorly the video is edited
| when the top comment is about the video not being scrub'able in
| that web page.
| dheera wrote:
| Also I wonder what happens when a moving part fails and they
| get stuck with nobody at home ... seems like all it would take
| is a rat to chew on that cord for a catastrophic failure.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| If they're competing against a stairlift, there's a lot more
| that can go wrong with a stairlift than this. A power outage
| is much more likely than a rat chewing through a cord.
| inetsee wrote:
| I think that people who would need something like this would
| also be at risk of falling when just walking around. There
| are no shortages of devices that allow someone to call for
| help if they've fallen. And as for a rat chewing through a
| cord, the cords could be made from a material that rats don't
| find tasty, or the device could be made with cables rather
| than cords.
|
| With the cost of assisted-living being high and getting
| higher all the time, anything that helps people live in their
| own homes longer would be a big help.
| syshum wrote:
| This is the Automate car debate all over again.
|
| Society is so risk adverse today that they do not want to
| allow anything that is not perfectly safe for 1000% of all
| situations that anyone can ever think of.
|
| This device that would make people lives better will likely
| be bogged down in 1000's of "safety" regulations around
| 1:1,000,000 chance events of "what if a rat chews on the
| cord , while at the same time a bird lands on the power
| cable that kills the power, while at the same time someone
| hits a utility pole taking out the phones.... Clearly this
| product is unsafe"....
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| On the contrary, I'd argue most people who would need
| this are just far better off moving to a single story
| residence.
|
| I live with an 87 year old, and every dang thing except
| clear open floor is a big risk. We don't need
| contraptions, we just needed a first floor accessible
| bathroom.
| oneplane wrote:
| When you are early 50's and you have MS, I don't think
| the same scenario applies. This isn't a solution for
| people who can't do most things, it's a solution for
| people who can almost do everything but have been
| disabled in some way.
|
| It used to be that the only solution would be a powered
| elevator system, but that was only because we had no
| alternative.
| tornato7 wrote:
| That's like saying, "why do people even hear their house
| when they could just purchase a second home in the
| tropics instead?"
|
| It's not always feasible to buy a new house to solve a
| problem.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| We did not buy a new house. We did a renovation which is
| likely cheaper than this one.
| borepop wrote:
| This is the second HN thread I'm reading today where
| somebody's response to an article is "this is not a
| solution for me personally, so therefore it's not a good
| idea." Seems like a strange way to interpret information.
| HeavyStorm wrote:
| Really curious why this made front page. I see nothing here
| revolutionary, just a crude solution with a lot of problems.
|
| I have two people in my family who would benefit from this kind
| of product, and I don't see they using our anytime soon
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| There is another page with a bit more information and more
| pictures: https://www.rombout.design/verticalwalking.html
| hettygreen wrote:
| Why would anyone ever start a company building a product that
| helps people?? This is lame. There's so much more money to be
| made harvesting user data, or raking in dumb VC money with fake
| promises.
|
| These dudes actually have to deliver a product.. lol.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| If you've been around a loved one who is at risk of a fall on
| stairs, or exhausted and weary from stairs due to age or disease,
| this apparatus's appeal is immediately clear.
|
| When my mom was dying from brain cancer, her final days of
| mobility were an incredible strain for everyone. This would have
| made life a lot easier. If she had a seizure, at least she would
| be seated. If she got tired, taking a break wouldn't mean
| potentially falling and getting hurt.
| Tarq0n wrote:
| Keep in mind that in the Netherlands, where this business is
| located, the government will pay to install a stairwell
| elevator in your home when you are no longer able to use them
| yourself. This product seems very niche in comparison.
| uxp100 wrote:
| Yeah. Stairs are scary. My able bodied middle aged partner
| fainted halfway down the stairs, and damn, you know, uh, you
| don't forget something like that, even though she only mildly
| fractured her spine and just was in a lot of pain but "fine"
| Fezzik wrote:
| Yea, this is a very cool apparatus! When my 80 y/o grandmother
| had a stroke she went from walking 3+ miles a day to barely
| being able to walk around the block. She still had the drive to
| use her muscles as she could but she lived in a three-story
| house and the stairs were terrifying (though we were lucky
| enough to have a lot of family that could help out)...
| something like this would have done wonders for her both
| physically and mentally.
| joel_dice wrote:
| This resembles ascending a rope using prusiks, which is a lot of
| fun if you haven't tried it. Great to see a variation the helps
| people with limited mobility to get around unassisted.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Didn't know what prusiks were -- had to look it up.
|
| The video for the Vertiwalk looks to me more like standing and
| sitting in order to ascend.
|
| In standing the seat climbs up a bit to follow your bum, when
| sitting the floor climbs up a bit to raise your legs into a
| seated position.
|
| Descending is a bit challenging for my brain to understand.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| You do the same thing with prusiks to ascend a rope. Here's
| an example of a practical application, getting out a crevasse
| when climbing glaciers:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px_m3qzHYTA
|
| In an alpine scenario you'd descend by rappelling. I doubt
| folks in a home want to setup a munter hitch or similar
| though. :)
| ricardobeat wrote:
| The overdubbing in this video is creepy, like these auto-
| generated voiceover videos. Why show peoples faces over
| completely different narration?
| MauranKilom wrote:
| ...because they didn't narrate in English?
| Avalaxy wrote:
| Subtitles are a thing
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I see. I tried to watch one video but they spent most of
| the time explaining how to create the rope/knots. I had
| assumed you eventually resorted to your arm strength to
| ratchet up the line. It does look like standing to ascend.
| goldenkey wrote:
| I hope I never have to use this. Knowing myself, I'd typo
| the knot and fall to my death.
| fingerlocks wrote:
| This is how it's taught in intro mountaineering courses.
| In the real world experienced alpinists carry a
| lightweight ascender, like a Micro Traction or similar,
| that can also be used for other tasks like hauling or
| fall protection for simul-leading.
| goldenkey wrote:
| Is that essentially a one way rachet? All you need to
| climb easily is prevention of regress and maybe some
| mechanical advantage, right?
| fingerlocks wrote:
| Yes
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Aid climbing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_climbing
| It's using techniques like that to go up rock walls
| instead of free climbing the rock holds.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| It is a bit more complex. Climbing means falling. The
| 'ratchet' needs to work under shock loads. And wet/ice
| ropes radically change the friction numbers. There is a
| reason why climbers, experienced ones, know and use a
| great many different tricks for accending and decending
| ropes. A "big wall" climber can make a belay device out
| of almost anything, or even nothing.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| like your hip!
|
| "The leader must not fall."
| copo233 wrote:
| There's also a mechanical version of a prusik called an
| "ascender." That's what I think this thing basically is.
| throwawaygh wrote:
| _> Descending is a bit challenging for my brain to
| understand._
|
| You would typically descend by rappelling, but it is possible
| to descend using two prussiks:
|
| 1. weight prussik B / unweight prussik A
|
| 2. slide prussik A down
|
| 3. weight prussik A / unwieght prussik B
|
| 4. slide prussik B down
|
| 5. repeat
|
| I've never seen this done with two prussiks, but a similar
| sort of thing is done with two ascenders when rope soloing
| (e.g., to practice a single move over and over without re-
| rigging each time).
| hbarka wrote:
| I've heard of prusiks and hearing about it again made me go
| down this rabbit hole of friction hitches. Fascinating!
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friction_hitch_knots
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| You can also do this by wrapping the rope around your foot. As
| you hoist up, let the rope around your foot go loose, then
| stand on your foot to go up again.
| takk309 wrote:
| Haha! I though the same thing. I remember watching a video of
| an amputee ascending up El Cap using a similar set up only with
| lots of pull-ups! That and less of a Danish modern design
| aesthetic!
| throwawaygh wrote:
| Yup, "vertical walking" is about as close to an intuitive
| description of ascending a rope as you can get... clever idea
| and apt name :)
| timwaagh wrote:
| It has the feeling of a demo project although maybe revalidation
| centers could perhaps use them.
| daveg222 wrote:
| This is an awesome idea. I wonder if it could be extended
| slightly as an alternative to stairs in small spaces.
| adenozine wrote:
| Horrible landing page, poorly sized and video controls are bad.
|
| Doesn't pass the BLUF test. If I can't figure the product out in
| five seconds, I'm leaving.
|
| Shame.
|
| I looked it up on YouTube, it's an interesting concept. I feel
| that direct vertical is probably more of a pain to renovate and
| maintain than a staircase in traditional housing. Curious to see
| what happens.
| erinaceousjones wrote:
| What's the Breeches and Leather Uniform Fanclub got to do with
| it? :-)
|
| Five seconds is rather impatient, and this notion that
| everything has to be a "product" which we immediately must know
| everything about makes me distinctly uncomfortable. Like, we're
| absolutely rushing through life. The video itself is maybe a
| couple of minutes long at most and does explain how it works,
| who it's for, and some of the backstory behind it.
| 1cvmask wrote:
| I wonder if there any zoning rules in many parts of the world
| that prevent adoption of this. Also what would it end up costing
| (has to be less than an elevator). But I love the idea that it is
| a super simple solution to those with disabilities and looks like
| an easy install.
| zhte415 wrote:
| Looking for more information, I couldn't find any 'About' page on
| the website, came across this
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZJvRWQW5k from 5 years ago.
|
| Same name and a Netherlands connection. SAme company?
|
| The website vertiwalk.com was registered in 2016, around the date
| of this video. Did this come to market? It certainly looks
| useful.
| bkanber wrote:
| It looks like the same company, and that looks like the same
| person too
| playcache wrote:
| I can't help but think about what happens when the poor ladies
| arm strength starts to diminish from MS and she is left with the
| whole installation rigged into her home.
| benjis wrote:
| This device is operated by shifting the weight back and forth
| between your feet and the seat, not by pulling with the arms.
| wiradikusuma wrote:
| I can't watch the video since Vimeo is blocked in my country, so
| I searched YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whk2o98zlpc
|
| My questions (because the YouTube video doesn't show it):
|
| 1. What happens if the "chair" is at the opposite end? E.g.
| you're downstairs and want to go up but the "chair" is upstairs.
|
| 2. Is the step gap / velocity adjustable?
| mlac wrote:
| Fair points. For 1, I'd think this would be for use with one
| person so it would always be "with" them on the floor where
| they are. But It would be interesting to know if it would
| disengage to go down or up if needed (though you'd likely need
| help).
|
| I know the video said she could go up but down down steps, but
| I'd think she'd need to go up and down on the device.
|
| Fun side story - I once rode a stair chair in my sisters house
| half way, got bored, got off and walked the rest of the way up
| the steps to her basement. The stair chair only charged when at
| either end station (the designers hadn't planned for it to stop
| in the middle I guess), so the battery died. It was hundreds of
| dollars to fix (either new battery or repair tech) and didn't
| have a neutral, so it stayed half way up the steps until they
| got around to taking it out.
| robbmorganf wrote:
| 1. I think you call an able bodied relative?
|
| 2. Looks like it. I think it's just a racheting system, so I
| think there are infinite "lock points"
| orangeoxidation wrote:
| No idea if they do it, but I imagine you could pull the whole
| thing up pretty easily, even easier with some type of winch.
| aaron695 wrote:
| First it's all about the pinch points and tangling and other
| safety like fire.
|
| You have to assume children share the space for instance.
|
| Then how useful practically. I guess you have two wheel chairs.
|
| And how replaceable it is when your condition gets worse.
|
| Interesting idea. I feel like once you pay for a builder you
| might not install something that simple.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| Any way to carry small objects while ascending?
| adolph wrote:
| Looks like they reinvented the paternoster except made it
| manually operated by use of one's glutes and only one person can
| ride at a time.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster_lift
| punnerud wrote:
| Cool product, but Assistep seems like a simpler solution for the
| same problem https://assistep.com/
| Nebasuke wrote:
| Part of the issue of the woman in the video is that her left
| side isn't working well due to MS, while her legs/feet are
| working pretty fine. The assistep does not seem to solve her
| problem, and also seems like it would still be risky to use.
| Borrible wrote:
| Now, that thing looks good, easier to maintain and cheaper. And
| there seems to be bigger potential adaptability. Something
| along the line of modular extensions for special disabilities.
|
| Thank you.
| mosselman wrote:
| I think they solve different problems. It doesn't seem to me
| like the woman in the video would've been able to get upstairs
| as quickly or even at all, with the assistep. Especially moving
| upstairs with it seems very dangerous if there is a chance that
| your feet don't do what you want them to.
|
| Side note: "upstairs" is a great word that shows how ingrained
| stairs are in our lives as a means to move up or down. The
| Vertiwalk people have really thought outside of the box. Very
| cool.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| I'm glad there are people looking for better ways to get around.
|
| A lot of older people have bad knees.
|
| I like the direction of this device, but put a motor in it.
|
| (I think the whole point of handicapped devices is function, then
| cost, and even aesthetics.
|
| My mom needs grab bars, etc., but still cares how it looks.)
| coldtea wrote:
| So scrollable video = I'm out in 5' seconds.
| SilkRoadie wrote:
| In small houses I have always thought that stairs take up so much
| space for something which is used a couple of times a day. I have
| always thought a vertical solution would be better. This isn't
| that solution for a variety of reasons. It is nice to see
| innovation in this area though.
| Tempat wrote:
| I wonder if a faster solution for more able-bodied people would
| be, instead of having a platform for sitting and a platform for
| standing, you could have two small platforms, one for each
| foot.
|
| It'd be essentially like walking up stairs, but on the spot.
| aflag wrote:
| Maybe a ladder?
| Tempat wrote:
| Haha, okay good point, what I proposed is pretty much an
| overly complex ladder isn't it. In my defence, unlike a
| ladder it would allow you to stand straight up and - as the
| other comment mentioned - use your arms for other things.
| slx26 wrote:
| I thought the same as the comment you are replying to,
| because having your hands free is quite a big deal. I
| practice parkour, and have zero problems with ladders from
| a mobility perspective, but they are not practical because
| you can't carry things up and down easily. Also, what if
| someone else comes for a visit? They better be ready to
| climb!
| aflag wrote:
| You can bring things up with a backpack. But yeah, it's
| less convenient than stairs, it looks worse and it is
| less inviting. That's why people like stairs. I'm not
| sure if the advertised product is that much better,
| though. It seems extremely slow and clunky.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| > a couple of times a day
|
| I'm sure I use the stairs a lot more than a couple of times a
| day.
| alan-crowe wrote:
| I couldn't see the counter-weight. A counter-weight matched to
| the sole user (able-bodied take the stairs) would make a huge
| difference to the muscular effort involved in getting up and
| down.
|
| This seems to be about halving the strength requirement because
| you can use both legs on every step, while also eliminating the
| balance and coordination requirements of climbing and descending
| stairs. Maybe that is all that is needed if some-one has had a
| stroke and falls just short of being able to use stairs. But I
| don't see it buying much time with a progressive condition.
| mewse-hn wrote:
| I think there must be a counter-weight because they say the
| ascent is assisted but also that it uses no electricity.
| Counter-weight must be hidden or something.
| mightybyte wrote:
| This looks like a simple and elegant solution to a very real
| problem that affects lots of people's lives. But I can't help but
| think that in addition to the obvious upside of giving people a
| lot of autonomy, there's a significant downside here that should
| not be ignored. The flip side of making basic life activities
| easier is that if a person gets used to it, it can be pretty easy
| to slip into the complacency of relying on the device and
| actually never regain full normal function. I wonder if it would
| be feasible to augment that system with a leverage/resistance
| control that could be gradually changed. From my cursory look at
| the video it looks like there's some kind of mechanical leverage
| system in place (or at least there could be). Then a rehab
| schedule could start someone on, say, a 2x force multiplier and
| then gradually dial that back to 1x, and perhaps eventually < 1x
| which would then start to function as a strengthening /
| resistance training regimen.
|
| I imagine this kind of graduated assistance/resistance feature
| would probably increase cost, complexity, and maintenance a
| meaningful amount. Question is, how much? Perhaps it might be
| worth it?
| skj wrote:
| I don't think "this is a dangerous idea because people might
| need it to function" is a great take.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I had a roommate who was exceedingly stylish in an
| alternative sort of way. He once won a prohibition-era
| costume contest just dressed like he always does. He later
| suffered a smattering of strokes, during his recovery we got
| him a cane.
|
| He thought the cane was such a cool accessory that we had to
| have a sort of intervention: Dude, you're in your 20's, don't
| give up on walking without a cane just because you think your
| cane makes you look distinguished.
|
| So yeah, it's a real thing, but I think it's more of
| something to be aware of while you're using the product
| rather than a critique of the product: It's a crutch,
| crutches come with disclaimers.
| boublepop wrote:
| You can't compare a hipster wanting to flash a cane with a
| senior citizen giving up going up and down stairs in pain
| because a painless alternative exists.
| anthomtb wrote:
| Reading between the lines, you seem to think people with
| mobility issues are lazy. "Just focus on your rehab and you'll
| be walking again in no time! Pull yourself up by your
| bootstraps!"
|
| I can assure you that no amount of resistance training will
| undo the affects of very old age or multiple sclerosis.
| monitron wrote:
| I mean the person in the video has MS and is presumably never
| going to get back the function she has lost in her left side.
| She was unable to go downstairs unassisted before this device.
| She's not training for strength, she just needs to be able to
| access her whole house.
| teraflop wrote:
| In case anyone else was irritated by the inability to scrub
| through the auto-playing video, adding this CSS rule in your
| browser's dev tools should fix it: .vp-progress
| { display: block !important; }
| NathanielK wrote:
| http://www.rombout.design/verticalwalking.html Has some video
| of pictures of it working so you don't have to wait blindly for
| it.
| qwertox wrote:
| This should be on top.
| wyager wrote:
| One actually useful function of the macbook touch bar is that
| it gives you an always-on scrubber.
| exikyut wrote:
| Realisation: you could do this with any modern touchpad.
|
| Realisation 2: you could trap scroll events and implement the
| whole thing in-browser.
|
| ...hmmmm, interesting...
| argsnd wrote:
| Seriously! I didn't realise how much I used this feature
| because I've found myself missing it on my 2021 MBP multiple
| times :(
| mgkimsal wrote:
| I had a 2016 MBP for a while and _never_ noticed it once.
| Interesting how we all get set in particular set of usage
| patterns. I might have liked it more if I 'd ever even
| noticed that. Maybe it wasn't something that was as exposed
| in 2016?
| aulin wrote:
| you can use arrow keys
| entropie wrote:
| Its so stupid to hide this and and inhibit people to understand
| what this is all about.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| Given that the video and product are about an assistive
| technology, even moreso.
| nathanaldensr wrote:
| Ain't marketing hostility grand?
| autarch wrote:
| It's also on YouTube -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYqHWDt5wRk
| chessmango wrote:
| Another also: right and left keys worked pretty well
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Thank you. The lab that developed this set the video to be
| only viewable when embedded on their site, and my privacy
| tools mean vimeo thinks the video isn't being loaded via
| their site.
|
| Absolutely baffling that they don't allow it to be viewed
| directly on vimeo.
|
| ...Almost as baffling as a video that is several minutes long
| and doesn't communicate in the slightest how the thing works.
| pluc wrote:
| > Almost as baffling as a video that is several minutes
| long and doesn't communicate in the slightest how the thing
| works.
|
| This right there. Why is this even here? It feels like I'm
| A/B testing a launch campaign and I got the version where
| you need to figure shit out on your own
| abledon wrote:
| ying and yang of HN right here in this exchange haha!
| dools wrote:
| Richard: I think it's yin
|
| Ron: What like yin and Yan?
|
| Richard: No like yin and yang
|
| Ron: No it's ying and Yang they're opposites
| adolph wrote:
| By the power of wordplay, pedants unite!
|
| Eats shoots and leaves!
| millerm wrote:
| I miss that show.
| lifeformed wrote:
| It's infuriating, I can't rewatch a part I missed or skip
| ahead? And there's no volume control? I can't believe designers
| still are removing critical functionality to make it "cleaner".
| codetrotter wrote:
| You can double tap the left side of the video to skip back 10
| seconds at a time, and double tap the right side to skip
| forward
| lifeformed wrote:
| I can't, it doesn't work on desktop.
| mypalmike wrote:
| Just tap harder.
| kitd wrote:
| Try left and right arrow keys
| smcameron wrote:
| right arrow key works on desktop. Didn't try left arrow.
| geoduck14 wrote:
| And if you "pinch to zoom", it adds extra content!
| SilasX wrote:
| Agreed, and particularly ironic in a video promoting an
| accessibility product. Like, what?
| syspec wrote:
| Everyone knows that when you skin the video element, oops I
| err mean, craft a custom video player, the first thing you
| simply must do is hide the default controls.
|
| Otherwise how will people know it's a custom video player
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| newbie789 wrote:
| Have they invented elevators?
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