[HN Gopher] Ultracold, superdense atoms become invisible
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       Ultracold, superdense atoms become invisible
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2021-11-19 18:49 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.mit.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.mit.edu)
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | If this is true, then consider the following:
       | 
       | If we know that:
       | 
       | A) Superconductors can conduct a theoertical infinite amount of
       | electricity when supercooled (super-cooling being the key to this
       | phenomena)...
       | 
       | B) That there is a corollary; a relationship between electricity
       | and information; that is, that electricity can carry information
       | (unless you're reading this in the far future, the computer you
       | are reading this on is proof of that! <g>), and a theoretical
       | infinite amount of electricity can carry a theoretical infinite
       | amount of information...
       | 
       | C) If A and B are true, then that would imply that super-cooling
       | -- is the key to being able to transfer a theoretically infinite
       | amount of information, that is, there's a link, a relationship
       | between super-cold things (super low temperatures) -- and the
       | ability to pass information through it...
       | 
       | So, that brings us to the title of this article: "Ultracold,
       | superdense atoms become invisible".
       | 
       | If this article is true, then not only is there a link between
       | super-cold temperatures, the ability to pass theoretically
       | infinite information through a superconducting material (which
       | really just consists of atoms of the superconducting substance,
       | which really just consists of probable repeating structure of
       | that substance's atoms in space...) but also atom invisibility...
       | 
       | So, if true, we have ultra-cold, invisibility, and theoretical
       | infinite information... all at the same place, at the same
       | time...
       | 
       | OK, so with that background, I'm going to go for "full crackpot"
       | here... <g>
       | 
       | If atoms (or heck, any subparticle really, this would include any
       | and every subparticle) -- become invisible when super-cooled --
       | then:
       | 
       | Question #1: Are they really there, at all? (When super-cooled?)
       | 
       | Question #2: If the answer to Question #1 is that they are not
       | (again, when super-cooled), that they somehow collapse (for the
       | time that they are super-cooled) and then re-emerge when heated
       | (boy, wouldn't this solve all problems of all kinds of atoms and
       | sub-particles "disappearing" and "reappearing" if true?) -- then
       | here's "full crackpot":
       | 
       | If all of that were true -- then couldn't any single atom or sub-
       | particle (any of them, no matter how small) -- be modeled and/or
       | viewed as _INERTIA_ -- but _INERTIA RELATIVE TO SCALE_ , _INERTIA
       | RELATIVE TO TEMPERATURE_... or more specifically _INERTIAL FIELDS
       | RELATIVE TO TEMPERATURE_ , or even more specifically _INERTIAL
       | FIELDS RELATIVE TO TEMPERATURE, RELATIVE TO SCALE_...
       | 
       | Well, if one or more things, one or more aspects of the above
       | logic is false, then the answer is 'No'...
       | 
       | But who knows?
       | 
       | Maybe it's possible...
       | 
       | And then again, maybe it isn't... <g>
       | 
       | In other words, if true -- all atoms, particles and subparticles,
       | all of them -- are INERTIA (force) -- at their relative scale...
        
         | byteware wrote:
         | A) there is a critical current density above which
         | superconductivity collapses, so no infinite current, not even
         | theoretically
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | They are only invisible for a laser with a color with low
         | energy that can only "move" the atoms. When light colides with
         | an atom and changes direction, the atom has some speed after
         | the colission.
         | 
         | If the atoms can't move because there are other atoms blocking
         | them, then the can't redirect the light. [I oversimplified a
         | few details here.]
         | 
         | If you use a laser with other color, then the light can be
         | absorbed by the electrons in the atoms, and the electrons can
         | jump and later emit the light. So it will not be visible with
         | another laser. [Probably an ultraviolet laser is enough.]
         | 
         | > _Question #1: Are they really there, at all? (When super-
         | cooled?)_
         | 
         | Yes.
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | >"An atom can only scatter a photon if it can absorb the force of
       | its kick, by moving to another chair," explains Ketterle,
       | invoking the arena seating analogy. "If all other chairs are
       | occupied, it no longer has the ability to absorb the kick and
       | scatter the photon. So, the atoms become transparent."
       | 
       | by that logic neutron stars should be highly
       | transparent/invisible too.
        
         | NickNameNick wrote:
         | Maybe? But wouldn't you expect at least some non-degenerate
         | matter on the surface of a neutron star?
         | 
         | I doubt we'll find any 'naked' neutron stars.
        
       | philipkglass wrote:
       | There is something missing from this press release.
       | 
       |  _In their new study, he and his colleagues used techniques they
       | developed previously to first freeze a cloud of fermions -- in
       | this case, a special isotope of lithium atom, which has three
       | electrons, three protons, and three neutrons. They froze a cloud
       | of lithium atoms down to 20 microkelvins, which is about 1
       | /100,000 the temperature of interstellar space._
       | 
       |  _"We then used a tightly focused laser to squeeze the ultracold
       | atoms to record densities, which reached about a quadrillion
       | atoms per cubic centimeter," Lu explains._
       | 
       | They're freezing lithium 6 vapor and increasing its density. But
       | lithium 6 is normally a solid at room temperature. Solid lithium
       | 6 would contain about
       | 
       | (6.02 * 10^23 / 6.0151 [0]) * 0.460 [1] = 4.6 * 10^22
       | 
       | atoms per cubic centimeter -- a density 7 orders of magnitude
       | greater than what has been attained in this work. Is there
       | something special that prevents this frozen atom cloud from
       | condensing to an ordinary solid? Is it just a very short lived
       | state observed before it condenses to an ordinary solid?
       | 
       | [0] Atomic weight of lithium 6
       | 
       | [1] Specific gravity of lithium 6:
       | https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1743927
        
         | Misdicorl wrote:
         | The missing piece is that the coldness of the atoms isn't a
         | random stat. It's an incredibly important feature of this
         | research field. The density in the context of a quantum gas is
         | what's interesting
        
         | liquidise wrote:
         | In general their article's use of "Fermion" clashes with my
         | understanding. I've understood fermions[1] to be a type of sub-
         | atomic particle, like an electron. The article routines refers
         | to them as if they are atoms themselves, including your quoted
         | test.
         | 
         | I presume the MIT literature knows more than i do here, but i'm
         | unsure what i am missing. Anyone have an idea?
         | 
         | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermion
        
           | contravariant wrote:
           | The term "fermion" is often used for everything with a half-
           | integer spin. This is because their wave-functions are still
           | anti-symmetric and therefore the Pauli exclusion principle
           | applies leading to Fermi-Dirac statistics.
           | 
           | A lot of terms are reused for what are technically compound
           | particles, especially since it isn't always too obvious which
           | properties of a particle are intrinsic and which are caused
           | by interactions.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | Read the "Composite Fermions" part of the Wikipedia article
           | you posted. Anything, including many atoms, composed of an
           | odd number of fermions is, itself, a fermion (and anything
           | composed of an even number of fermions is a boson.)
        
       | TheCraiggers wrote:
       | If I understand this correctly, couldn't this explain dark
       | matter?
       | 
       | The article didn't say how dense this cloud was, but if it was
       | still a cloud it couldn't be _that_ dense right? Surely something
       | that could exist in the cold vastness of space.
        
         | gpm wrote:
         | Near absolute zero states of matter don't really work the same
         | way. I wouldn't read too much into them saying "cloud".
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | The cosmic microwave background is 136000 times hotter, so I
         | don't think so, no.
        
           | dtgriscom wrote:
           | "136000 times hotter" sounds a lot more impressive than
           | "2.72546 degrees hotter"...
        
             | BobbyJo wrote:
             | That was fun to read. Even funner to realize that the huge
             | relative number is actually more useful too. Saying 2.72
             | degrees sounds small, but a difference that large on
             | average throughout the universe would be absolutely insane
             | And break basically all of physics
        
           | TheCraiggers wrote:
           | Fair, but the article implied that it's a somewhat linear
           | effect- you don't need absolute zero for it to make the cloud
           | dim. The article didn't do a great job of saying what temps
           | they were testing at.
           | 
           | Still, I'm not surprised. I doubt some armchair scientist is
           | going to solve the riddle of dark matter. I was curious and
           | got some good answers. Thanks!
        
         | jwuphysics wrote:
         | No. The experimentalists used lasers to condense the atoms to
         | high densities.
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | Sounds like a fun conspiracy. Aliens using space lasers to
           | hide, what, 25% of the matter in the universe from us?
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | 85%, not that it would matter for a conspiracy theory.
        
             | GuardianCaveman wrote:
             | Yeah the 25% coolest parts too.
        
             | denton-scratch wrote:
             | Would that be the 25% that isn't "Dark Matter"? Ergo,
             | nothing in the Universe is observable ... wait.
        
       | fcsonline wrote:
       | Dark matter?
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | Didn't understand if it stops but do not bounce back light or if
       | it lets light to pass as there was nothing there. Those are
       | different ways to be invisible.
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | .. to our current technology
       | 
       | That's the missing point, invisible is subjective
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | It's invisible only for the light of colors with photons with
         | low energy, because the trick only blocks some interactions of
         | the material and light.
         | 
         | If you use light with photons with more energy [perhaps
         | ultraviolet] then other interactions are possible and it is
         | visible.
         | 
         | So "invisible" is a simplification/exaggeration in the press
         | article.
        
         | ergocoder wrote:
         | Physics is a highly speculative field due the limitation of our
         | technology.
         | 
         | Physicists know this. But laypeople don't.
         | 
         | With the anti and pro science folks, this part is getting worse
         | where you are called multiple insults for even casting doubt on
         | any physics theory/law like "nothing can be faster than speed
         | of light" or "energy is always conserved".
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-19 23:00 UTC)