[HN Gopher] Lemmy Release v0.14.0: Federation with Mastodon and ...
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Lemmy Release v0.14.0: Federation with Mastodon and Pleroma
Author : agluszak
Score : 100 points
Date : 2021-11-18 14:49 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (lemmy.ml)
(TXT) w3m dump (lemmy.ml)
| dang wrote:
| Previous related threads:
|
| _Lemmy - A link aggregator for the fediverse_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28453165 - Sept 2021 (213
| comments)
|
| _Lemmy a federated, open-source and privacy alternative to
| Reddit_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393689 - Sept
| 2020 (9 comments)
|
| _Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets
| funding for development_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23664067 - June 2020 (634
| comments)
|
| _AMA about Lemmy, an open source, Federated alternative to
| Reddit_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23389622 - June
| 2020 (4 comments)
|
| _Lemmy: Federated Alternative to Reddit in Rust_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19686972 - April 2019 (99
| comments)
| agluszak wrote:
| I am 100% excited by the Fediverse and 0% excited by the
| Metaverse. Finally we're getting a way out of the walled
| garden/silo model of social networks pushed by commercial
| platforms like Facebook, Twitter and Reddit.
| kzrdude wrote:
| The fediverse seems to barely be growing and have no chance of
| mainstream adoption. Maybe that's fine, that's just going to
| mean it's a more exclusive internet.
| solarkraft wrote:
| So far I enjoy this exclusive internet. So many more cool
| people, so much less shitty commercialization and user-
| hostility.
|
| Of course it's not 100% ready for everyone yet, but I don't
| think it's very far. Like the early internet, it's currently
| full of early adopters and still a little awkward to use. I
| don't think it will stay that way forever.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| Barely growing? I don't know which stats you're looking at,
| but the Fediverse Observer charts[0] show that the number of
| users, servers, and posts have all doubled since the start of
| 2020.
|
| [0] https://fediverse.observer/stats
| wiz21c wrote:
| 4500000 users ! that's a lot. I thought that kind of stuff
| was for a niche. Looks much more promising all of a suddend
| ! thx for sharing.
| agluszak wrote:
| > barely be growing and have no chance of mainstream adoption
| I guess someone could have said that about ARPANET in
| 1970s... ;)
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| I am totally fine with the outcome of an exclusive internet
| that's exclusive due to a lack of interest rather than
| exclusive by dedicated gatekeeping.
| wonks wrote:
| If Lemmy's voting system is incompatible with Mastodon & Pleroma,
| then does that also mean that reshares and Favorites from
| Mastodon or Pleroma won't count as upvotes in Lemmy?
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Imo they shouldn't count anyways.
| [deleted]
| olah_1 wrote:
| The federation seems confusing even for someone that understands
| activity pub.
|
| Did we ever stop to ask if we _should_? Or did we only ask if we
| _could_?
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| Uhhh I mean I guess it depends on your goals, but for social
| media services as generic as Mastodon/Lemmy, federation seems
| like an obvious advantage in terms of increased "social
| connection" as opposed to siloed communities that cannot talk
| to each other.
| rakoo wrote:
| I think the federation in fediverse went on wrong tracks. What
| I want is a single identity and be able to use it everywhere,
| whether the "where" provides me with a photo sharing service or
| a blogging service. What we have instead is a photo sharing
| service where I'm registered and a blogging service where I'm
| also registered but with a different identity, and we try to
| make the two fit into one another but it doesn't really match.
| bronlund wrote:
| What he said!
| mhd wrote:
| Wasn't lemmy also a vi clone?
| mianos wrote:
| I have no idea what Lemmy is aside from a vi clone. I eventually
| found a link to a post "What is Lemmy" and it says: "Recently
| there seems to be some of misunderstanding what the lemmy.ml
| instance is about, especially from newer users". I still don't
| know.
| input_sh wrote:
| I don't blame you, but you're looking at the wrong place:
| https://join-lemmy.org/
|
| In short, it's a decentralized reddit in the same way Mastodon
| is a decentralized Twitter.
|
| Lemmy.ml is a main server running it.
| HMH wrote:
| > Hardcoded slur filter removed
|
| Nice, IMO this shouldn't have been there in the first place,
| considering its inflexibility and obvious bias to what the devs
| consider slurs.
| Lambdanaut wrote:
| Finally I can start working on Lemmy again without feeling a
| moral weight in my gut.
|
| Great move on the part of the creators of Lemmy. I know this
| was a hard thing for them to do, because I know how much they
| were opposed to removing the filter, but I think this will be a
| very good thing for Lemmy in the future.
| rndmind wrote:
| What do you mean, inflexibility? The regex is right there for a
| server admin to edit or disable, that's as flexible as it gets
| hah..
| wraptile wrote:
| That means you have to build from source which kinda goes
| against the spirit of a decentralized network.
| nightpool wrote:
| Updating the source code of your software goes agains the
| spirit of a decentralized network? How? The whole _point_
| of decentralized networks is that people with different
| source code /implementations can communicate with each
| other.
| andrewzah wrote:
| Because it reduces the operators of said networks to
| people who know how to build rust/etc projects from
| source. That is limiting and off putting.
| all2 wrote:
| Sounds like a business opportunity.
|
| Federated software vendor: we do the dirty work so you
| can start a new instance with one click.
| tedunangst wrote:
| Does that one click also edit the source code?
| all2 wrote:
| I suppose users could apply patches and alter
| configurations? Caveat Emptor: we do not offer customer
| support for altered source/configs.
| andrewzah wrote:
| There are services like that for Mastodon [0]. But a
| provider that lets you host from a choice of e.g.
| mastodon, pleroma, lemmy etc would be interesting.
|
| [0]: https://masto.host/
| coldacid wrote:
| Masto.host is run by one of those people who put
| inflexible ideology ahead of the wants and needs of their
| users. That is ever a concern when having a third party
| set up and manage everything for you.
| rndmind wrote:
| That's true, compiling rust is harsh, but we're are
| talking about server admins and sysadmins here, I have
| faith that sysadmins will know how to compile and deploy
| rust.
|
| TIL the Lemmy Server code is written in rust, hell yeah
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| Do you want your sysadmin to be someone who provably
| can't build from source?
| nightpool wrote:
| Yes. That's what the word "operator" means. You need to
| operate the software that the network depends on, or
| trust someone who does. You see this a lot of time in the
| Bitcoin/cryptocurrency community as well, where node
| operators complain about the changes "forced onto them"
| by developers. Ultimately, it's a labor problem--if
| someone else is writing your code for you, and you don't
| know how to modify it, you're at the mercy of their
| decisions.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| This is good news. It does appear that the major Lemmy
| instances are ran by leftist groups politically and that most
| of their development comes from the left, which is their own
| right. I do wonder though if they will take actions at some
| point to try to censor instances that may disagree with them
| politically, whether it takes actions to simply disable
| federation with them or other actions in the software itself.
| mattbk1 wrote:
| An instance of Lemmy is free to federate (or not) with other
| instances on the Fediverse. Each instance can have its own
| code of conduct. Seems good for everyone.
| ratww wrote:
| Slur filters are a clbuttic mistake.
| seany wrote:
| I've never really understood why more of this kind of thing
| isn't optional in the _client_ to start with. There's this
| weird "I'll control everything" default with some of these
| projects thats just baffling; given the seeming point of
| distributed/federated systems.
| ruined wrote:
| it was a shortcut to cull the lowest effort 4chan-style spam
| until moderation tools were implemented. the functionality is
| still there, in fact it's more configurable now
|
| they did it because social media can't get off the ground if
| it's full of useless garbage. would you read hn if all the
| comments were just the same word over and over?
| esyir wrote:
| Eh, from what I know, it was very much ideological, at
| least that's what I heard from people I knew working with
| it.
|
| To quote the dev on this himself:
|
| >And putting it in a DB table means someone could very
| easily remove it by deleting every row of that table, which
| isn't good. I want to make it very difficult for racist
| trolls to use the most updated version of Lemmy.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Honestly it's always seemed to me that this kind of anti-
| racism always _drives_ more racism than it eliminates--
| people don 't like being told what not to do/say and buck
| accordingly. In particular, left-wing identity politics
| _especially in our institutions_ seems to me to be
| driving many people toward right-wing identity politics,
| which causes left-wing people in turn to feel as though
| we need to commit our institutions more strongly toward
| identity politics, precipitating the cycle.
|
| Personally, I think any kind of identity politics is
| abhorrent, but I think those of us who are united in our
| opposition to right-wing identity politics should
| recognize that its driver is institutionalized left-wing
| identity politics and work to de-institutionalize.
| However, cynically I suspect people on both sides
| actually like the conflict (addicted to outrage, etc) and
| are quite happy with the cycle.
|
| That said, as always, my hope is with the next generation
| --specifically that they'll see the vices of the previous
| generation and turn from them.
| true_religion wrote:
| I don't think so.
|
| It's hard to believe someone becomes racists merely from
| hearing that racism is banned.
|
| The issue of hating billions of people is too serious to
| develop as a form of devil's advocacy.
|
| As for the issue of identity politics, I think that's
| another discussion entirely.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| > It's hard to believe someone becomes racists merely
| from hearing that racism is banned.
|
| Narrowly, I agree, but we all know that there's a lot of
| ideological baggage associated with "racism" as a term
| and specifically how it's brandied about and by whom. At
| this point, how you talk about racism signals a side in a
| culture war in which "both sides" are illiberal--and of
| course the inconvenient liberal center whose existence
| threatens both sides' dichotomous narratives ("yeah we're
| illiberal, but those guys are _even more illiberal_ ").
|
| > The issue of hating billions of people is too serious
| to develop as a form of devil's advocacy.
|
| Not in America where racism is incessantly used as a
| political football by the left and the right (for
| example, left wing Twitter has been doing its best to
| racialize the Rittenhouse saga despite that all parties
| were white; similarly right).
|
| > As for the issue of identity politics, I think that's
| another discussion entirely.
|
| As previously mentioned, it's deeply intertwined with how
| we talk about "racism".
| andrewzah wrote:
| I don't really think HN would have taken off if there were
| such heavy handed approaches to moderation in the first
| place. Further, I don't believe a lack of this filter would
| result in "the same word over and over". What?
|
| One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user freedom.
| Why would I want to use F/OSS from someone that had such
| "my way or the highway" opinions about subjective things
| like how to handle people using bad words?
|
| Edit: wording
| agplisntfoss wrote:
| Lemmy and Mastodon are AGPL-licensed, which means if you
| modify server side code this counts as "distribution" and
| you must publish the code for your service based on these
| projects.
|
| Agree or disagree about whether or not that's good, fine,
| and it is open source software, but it is not libre
| software. They're OSS, not F/OSS.
|
| Pleroma is MIT licensed.
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| > One of the things that makes F/OSS great is user
| freedom.
|
| I don't think you are talking about the same kind of
| freedom. FLOSS freedom is the ability to view and edit
| the source code. Just because the source code does not do
| what you want does not mean you are not free to fork the
| project and change the behavior for yourself...
| andrewzah wrote:
| I would argue that just because the source code is
| available, that doesn't mean the project is in the spirit
| of free software or respects users.
|
| Imagine if curl just refused to download specific
| websites. Or if golang refused to compile code at all if
| it detected certain words in comments.
|
| Sure, yeah, these would be still free software given that
| the source code is available to edit to one's liking. But
| it's really not in the spirit of free software & user
| freedom to impose arbitrary things like this. The free
| software / open source landscape would be incredibly
| irritating to work with in general if this sort of
| hostile attitude to downstream users prevailed.
| rakoo wrote:
| Interestingly that's how Aether (https://getaether.net/)
| works: mods don't control rooms unilaterally, they are voted
| in. If you don't agree with what a mod did, you can disregard
| whatever action they took. _All_ content is available
| locally, you only apply the filter you want.
|
| I've never used Aether but I find that way of working very
| refreshing.
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