[HN Gopher] Hackerrank DMCA Notice
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hackerrank DMCA Notice
        
       Author : captn3m0
       Score  : 310 points
       Date   : 2021-11-16 12:04 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | sreeramb93 wrote:
       | Github is a globally used site and US law takes precedence over
       | all else. We need to decentralise the web.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | This has already been the case for git repositories since day
         | one. What makes github unique is the workflow management for
         | teams of developers. I think one of the issues is that people
         | default to the easiest choice of using github or gitlab rather
         | than self hosting their own system [1].
         | 
         | [1] - https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea
        
       | dekken_ wrote:
       | is there a better way to make these companies fail than just to
       | not support the use of their tests during interviews?
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | The problem is with the laws, not with the companies that abide
         | by those laws.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | In this case the problem is with a company abusing the law,
           | not abiding by it.
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | The problem is with both.
        
             | riffraff wrote:
             | to paraphrase a trite but true aphorism: "the things they
             | do are not illegal" is a very low threshold for supporting
             | a company.
        
         | bbarn wrote:
         | It's the only way, IMO. I am someone who tends to drift every
         | few years from manager to individual contributor. Here's my
         | take:
         | 
         | As an engineer, I refuse to do tests and take home projects for
         | interviews unless the company also offers to pay me for my time
         | and the problem seems immediately relevant to the domain. There
         | are few other fields one would ask to to perform your work
         | product for them before hiring, and few that it would matter
         | (being a chef is an example that comes to mind, but there are
         | others I'm sure).
         | 
         | As a manager, solving gotcha problems is rarely indicative of
         | someone who will perform good at a development job. Give me
         | someone who shows understanding of my stack via experience and
         | understanding my business. These efforts to screen at this
         | level by untrained people tells me the hiring manager is too
         | disconnected from his hiring process, or just too lazy. All I
         | want my HR team to do is scan resumes for at least some
         | relevant experience before passing them on to me, and I provide
         | them with plenty of examples, both on and off stack sometimes,
         | of what that might look like. If I was going to suggest a take
         | home project or a quiz app like this, I would already have
         | dedicated enough of my time into vetting that person that I'd
         | probably just invite them for an interview instead and do a
         | live coding exercise with them.
        
       | cannabis_sam wrote:
       | The whole DMCA is an affront to humanity.
        
         | vhold wrote:
         | The DMCA is flawed, but even the EFF will defend the importance
         | of the safe harbor it provides.
         | 
         | https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca
        
       | marcus_holmes wrote:
       | What problem are they trying to solve?
       | 
       | "cheating" on HackerRank is trivially simple - just have a second
       | computer that you can search for the answer on. Removing some of
       | the github repos for this is really not going to solve that
       | problem.
       | 
       | But that's not really cheating. HackerRank is used to test
       | programmers during recruitment, and I don't know a single
       | programmer that doesn't search for an answer when stumped with a
       | difficult question. Hell, it's Best Practice - why waste time
       | thinking up your own (probably flawed) answer to a problem when
       | there's an entire internet full of working solutions? As any
       | experienced programmer knows, "google-fu" is an essential skill
       | for a commercial coder. They should be giving points for "minimum
       | number of searches needed to find a solution" on HackerRank,
       | instead of trying to stop solutions being available.
       | 
       | The problem here, really, is that using HackerRank as anything
       | but an educational toy is universally stupid. But that would
       | involve explaining difficult things to HR people, and that's a
       | difficult problem that we can't search for an answer to.
        
       | trasz wrote:
       | That's why the world needs platforms like https://gitee.com.
        
         | MadcapJake wrote:
         | How will another centralized git host solve for US DMCA
         | protection?
        
           | thefr0g wrote:
           | He probably meant https://gitea.io ;)
        
           | trasz wrote:
           | By being outside the US jurisdiction - in this case in China.
        
       | srvmshr wrote:
       | As a fun trivia: Today I learned Hackerrank, HackerEarth &
       | CodeChef all started as Indian startups. They probably account
       | for more than half of traffic by coders taking competitive
       | programming as hobby. SPOJ, Codeforces, UVA are probably more
       | algorithm focused (read: harder/complex)
        
       | ldehaan wrote:
       | Hacker rank is such a Joke. I'd never use them, and everyone I
       | know who had used it found out that hiring people who call
       | themselves Hackers because they can answer a quiz, aren't Hackers
       | and suck in the workplace. ,........,........,........,........
       | Don't use these scammer companies, get someone who knows what
       | they're doing to do your interviews. Or waste your money, you can
       | do that too.
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | Hackerrank is a terrible platform.
        
         | throwaway4good wrote:
         | It is also a Y Combinator company:
         | 
         | https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/hackerrank
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Ycombinator companies having some ethical challenges is
           | nothing new either, unfortunately.
        
       | DarthNebo wrote:
       | Wonder what percentage of the questions are genuine creations of
       | Hackerrank & not just garbled up CS questions from other
       | textbooks/generic code
        
       | game_the0ry wrote:
       | This is funny.
       | 
       | I take this as - folks pushed their hackerrank practice to share
       | on github, and hackerrank is trying to stop github copilot from
       | auto-filling answers to the question. It goes to show how useless
       | hackerrank and leetcode type sites are.
       | 
       | Also, if hackerank claims copywrite over answers, they can
       | promptly go fuck themselves. Jokers.
       | 
       | I really do hate hackerrank. Their platform is the worst for
       | interviews, always buggy, autoformat and autcomplete never works,
       | just an overall PoS.
       | 
       | Update - reading the comments pissed me off even more. We as
       | participants in the tech industry need to stop using hackerrank
       | altogether, full stop, immediately. They're going after
       | developers, their own target market, with threatening legal
       | action - scumbag move.
        
         | gopher_space wrote:
         | Hackerrank is fantastic at filtering out companies I'd hate to
         | work for.
        
       | crawsome wrote:
       | I bet half of HR's questions are stolen from someone else anyway.
       | 
       | I hope ppl who write coding questions for a living check their
       | site out for stolen exercises they're so concerned about.
        
         | cute_boi wrote:
         | Most of them are simple modification of algorithm course like A
         | star algorithm, DFS, BFS and they have gall to dmca repo. Idk
         | how can HR is so spineless to report such DMCA. Companies
         | shouldn't use such platform to write coding question.
        
           | TuringNYC wrote:
           | I think Cormen, Leiserson,Rivest, and Stein could probably
           | DMCA takedown all of Hacker Rank. The questions are not much
           | different from the textbook.
        
         | kamaal wrote:
         | Indeed.
         | 
         | The standard practice while designing these questions is to
         | take what already exists(Classic DS/Algo questions, questions
         | on other OJ sites) and then add puzzle aspects to them, or a
         | slight variation in the solution that involves a 'small trick'
         | to it.
         | 
         | Leetcode almost feels like the defacto question bank for people
         | who want to do interview prep. People just take questions from
         | there and add small variations to it.
         | 
         | At this point in time this is worse than judging math skills by
         | checking a persons memorisation of multiplication tables. Only
         | people who ace these tests are unproductive at their current
         | jobs, and spend whole days memorising these things.
         | 
         | If you are hiring based on these tests. You are quite literally
         | hiring wrongest possible people for the job. Nobody answering
         | these questions are inventing novel algorithms for the
         | questions asked.
        
           | xtracto wrote:
           | This was 100% the case for a startup I worked for 4 years
           | ago: we actually used hackerrank and asked 3 of their
           | questions.
           | 
           | We realized that the people who better answered them were
           | college kids /recent graduates who had specialised in
           | algorithmic puzzle solving. They mainly programmed in C , but
           | their code was way too far away of what you would like to see
           | in a production environment.
           | 
           | The best people for us were the ones that had spent their
           | free time checking different technologies and doing crazy
           | projects (like reverse engineering something, or developing a
           | small game)
        
             | kamaal wrote:
             | This is so important and most people don't realize this.
             | Ability to build things quickly, make tools, write/rewrite
             | stuff. All this is so much more important than memory
             | skills, or even for that matter novel algorithm design
             | skills(even questions that demand novel algorithms are rare
             | in most production environments).
             | 
             | That given, it's a shame that our interview skills are no
             | where close to hiring people who can build anything at all.
             | 
             | The problem is a lot of these top companies have tons of
             | money and time, to spend doing these things. They can even
             | end up hiring the wrong people and it wouldn't matter all
             | that much because they have lots of money, and every once
             | in a while a genuine contributor slips in and makes up for
             | everyone else.
             | 
             | Now everyone wants to do this, when they don't have the
             | same conditions.
        
       | cute_boi wrote:
       | Blocking entire repo for FindSubstring.java sounds a bit hostile?
       | Also if the repo lets say contain general question like
       | FindSubsring can they dmca whole repo.
       | 
       | If I check on archive
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20200921030437/https://github.co...
       | it doesn't look like this repo should be dmca ed.
        
         | soco wrote:
         | What _we_ think is irrelevant because GitHub _already_ took
         | down everything. Soooo, in general... is DMCA already used as a
         | weapon? If not, why not?
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | Literally claiming copyright on this description for "find
         | substring": "Given s and x, we want to know the zero-based
         | index of the first occurrence of x in s"
         | 
         | They also seem to claim copyright on renditions of "their"
         | questions in various repositories containing interview notes in
         | general, e.g.
         | https://github.com/jayshah19949596/CodingInterviews/blob/mas...
         | 
         | There's also a number of URLs in here which have "leetcode" and
         | not "hackerrank" in them.
         | 
         | A sibling points out this golden nugget from the DMCA notice:
         | "(the whole repository is infringing copyright as it contains
         | the solution)" i.e. HackerRank is claiming that not only they
         | own the copyright on "How to find the first occurrence of x in
         | s?" _but also_ every solution to that question, which is a
         | completely ridiculous notion.
        
           | imglorp wrote:
           | Is that a long enough sample for DMCA? That sounds more like
           | fair use if it's only one sentence.
        
           | kamaal wrote:
           | >>HackerRank is claiming that not only they own the copyright
           | on "How to find the first occurrence of x in s?" but also
           | every solution to that question, which is a completely
           | ridiculous notion.
           | 
           | They are in hiring business not CS education business. Their
           | business is not helping people learn things, but helping
           | companies hire people.
           | 
           | If the solutions are available online, anybody can memorize
           | them and ace tests, And they often do. If too many people do
           | it, the whole point of test is defeated. The more solutions
           | are available online, the more pointless the test becomes.
           | Which actually says more about the testing methods
           | themselves.
           | 
           | On the other hand, it's realistically impossible to keeping
           | coming up with questions that can genuinely test a person's
           | ability to come up with a novel algorithm for a problem.
           | That's a CS PhD at least, if not a Fields medal category
           | problem.
        
             | RansomStark wrote:
             | I get your point, but copyright was designed to stop people
             | stealing an authors work. The DMCA was similarly designed
             | to help in that regard even is the implementation is
             | somewhat questionable.
             | 
             | Protecting a business model such as HackerRank's was not
             | the intention of copyright or the DMCA. Your argument
             | almost turns the entire idea of copyright on it's head.
             | 
             | As I read your comment I take away a point of view of:
             | 
             | The HackerRank business model is predicated on keeping
             | other peoples copyrighted work out of the hands of
             | potential users, therefore HackerRank should be entitled
             | the copyright of these other people.
             | 
             | That is not a viewpoint I could support and I don't believe
             | many, other than HackerRank could support it either.
        
               | kamaal wrote:
               | I know, it's just so wrong. But this is the world- as is.
               | 
               | Just be glad, they haven't yet patented or copyrighted a
               | tree, graph or a linked list yet.
               | 
               | Wrote a tree traversal program to solve some problem in
               | your program? Sorry that connects to some problem they
               | own, so now your solution belongs to them.
        
             | MikeDelta wrote:
             | I guess that this touches the topic of many discussions on
             | HN: how valuable is a test that you can beat by memorizing
             | solutions?
             | 
             | (Not bringing up the discussion, just mentioning it.)
        
             | madeofpalk wrote:
             | That doesn't sound like Github or the legal systems
             | problem?
        
           | forgetfulness wrote:
           | Any chance that it's an example solution copy pasted from
           | their site?
        
         | xyzal wrote:
         | I just checked another link on archive.org that really just
         | explains how to do linear interpolation of a missing array
         | element from neighboring elements. This is insane. GH should
         | really be considered a potential single point of failure now.
        
           | thefr0g wrote:
           | > GH should really be considered a potential single point of
           | failure now.
           | 
           | now...
        
         | adrr wrote:
         | They claim find substring question as their own art? I was
         | asked this in the early 2000s and i am sure i asked this
         | question to candidates in the mids 2000s. Someone should find
         | proof of any early example they asked a candidate and DMCA
         | hacker ranks cloud provider.
        
       | wizardofmysore wrote:
       | Can we have something like github on top of bit-torrent?
        
         | caymanjim wrote:
         | Gitea is free. Host it anywhere you want. Invite anyone you
         | want. You're still bound by the law somewhere, though.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | We don't need git _hosting_ at all. Git can be served off any
         | computer with SSH access. You serve git off a raspberry pi.
         | 
         | Github, gitlab, etc is just an overgrowth.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Github is, Gitlab is not because you can run it on-prem if
           | you want.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | Point is neither is even close to necessary using git. Git
             | isn't a web application. It's a version control system.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Yes, but that's OT, the topic here is GitHub, not git.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | Yeah, and my point is that it's mostly superfluous.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | You are welcome to your opinion of course but Github has
               | become a pretty essential part of the workflow for many
               | projects, closed and open source both. That it is
               | possible to work around that doesn't diminish that, it's
               | just how people are currently using it. I would have
               | preferred a much more decentralized solution, I always
               | thought it was a mistake that the git core left room
               | enough for the likes of Github to establish themselves as
               | gateways to various projects.
        
       | nightcracker wrote:
       | Looking through some of these URLs through Google cache, a lot of
       | these contain verbatim copies of the problem text. Fair enough,
       | legally speaking, if you are the copyright holder.
       | 
       | However, in the DMCA itself HackerRank asks for the removal of
       | entire _repositories_ , claiming "the whole repository is
       | infringing copyright as it contains the solution". This is a
       | blatant lie, HackerRank is not an automatic copyright holder of
       | any solutions to a problem they published.
        
         | realce wrote:
         | > HackerRank is not an automatic copyright holder of any
         | solutions to a problem they published
         | 
         | That's an interesting point of view. You're saying the question
         | text is copywrite-able but the logical conclusion of such a
         | question is not?
        
           | boomlinde wrote:
           | Both a question and an answer may or may not be subject to
           | copyright. What GP is saying is that such rights, if any, are
           | assigned to their respective authors.
        
           | nightcracker wrote:
           | Copying the question text _verbatim_ certainly is copyright
           | infringement (and I would guess unlikely to be fair use, but
           | I 'm not a lawyer). If you give the problem in your own
           | words, it won't be, just like your solution isn't.
        
             | rectang wrote:
             | Giving the problem "in your own words" raises the question
             | of whether or not your restatement constitutes a derivative
             | work.
             | 
             | From the 1976 Copyright Act section 101:
             | 
             | https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/101
             | 
             | > _A "derivative work" is a work based upon one or more
             | preexisting works, such as a translation, musical
             | arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion
             | picture version, sound recording, art reproduction,
             | abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work
             | may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting
             | of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
             | modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work
             | of authorship, is a "derivative work"._
        
             | TheJoeMan wrote:
             | Chegg seems to have sorted this out with textbook
             | questions?
        
               | captn3m0 wrote:
               | They license it I think.
        
             | moeris wrote:
             | That's not how copyright works. Simply rewording each
             | question will still violate copyright when you're copying
             | all of the questions. I couldn't just reword Harry Potter
             | and republish all of the novels. Likewise, copying some
             | small portion may fall under fair use.
        
               | checkyoursudo wrote:
               | That is how copyright works. I believe you are thinking
               | of plagiarism, which isn't the same thing.
        
               | Cederfjard wrote:
               | On the contrary, I'm fairly sure you could do that with
               | the Harry Potter books. What jurisdiction are you in?
        
               | TheNewsIsHere wrote:
               | I believe (and I'm not a legal expert here), that what
               | the commenter is alluding to is the "moral rights" over a
               | work. This is more common in the UK and Canada. When I
               | worked for a Canadian company (I'm a U.S. American) part
               | of our IP release for works-for-hire included a
               | waiver/transfer of rights specifically for the "moral" or
               | "authors" rights, which were explained as being the
               | "spirit" or "whole" of works we created.
               | 
               | It's a legal construct, but I was never satisfied with
               | that explanation. The gist was that while we could
               | transform things that we learned or did, we could not re-
               | use the ideas that formed the functioning product in
               | other works elsewhere, even by transformation.
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | Doesn't the Berne convention specifically make moral
               | rights inalienable? The whole _point_ being that you may
               | transfer redistribution rights, etc. to somebody else,
               | but they still don't get to (affirmatively) claim they
               | wrote it (thus can't even try to pressure you to allow
               | it)? Am I misunderstanding or is the local (and likely
               | original) definition of "moral rights" different from the
               | one in the convention?
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | The same way you may copyright a writing prompt, but you
           | won't automatically get copyright to stories inspired by said
           | prompt
        
           | scaryclam wrote:
           | The solution is certainly copywritable, but not by hackerrank
           | as they did not author it
        
             | mannykannot wrote:
             | I think (or at least hope) that copyright is limited to a
             | specific expression of a specific solution. Anything more
             | broad would be tantamount to a copyright on basic
             | algorithms, I think.
        
               | gzer0 wrote:
               | And what happens when there are multiple different
               | possibilities for the solution? As is the case here, the
               | solution can be achieved in multiple ways. It would be
               | bizarre for one to have copyright claim over all of them.
        
               | mannykannot wrote:
               | My initial reaction to your question was that I thought
               | perhaps Hackerrank could claim copyright on any
               | particular solution that had either been written by
               | Hackerrank or where the copyright had been assigned to
               | it.
               | 
               | With regard to the latter, I would guess, knowing how
               | corporations work, that Hackerrank requires anyone taking
               | a test to assign her rights, with respect to any solution
               | given, to the company. (To be clear: I do not like that
               | at all.)
               | 
               | In the US, the Copyright Act of 1976 extended copyright
               | to unpublished works (Hackerrank presumably does not
               | publish its own solutions, though it might well register
               | them.) IANAL and AFAIK, I think there are fairly
               | stringent requirements on fidelity for a work to be
               | considered infringing, and there is also the matter of
               | fair use, but in practice in this case, it is Github, not
               | the courts, that Hackerrank has to persuade.
               | 
               | I would guess that publishing something that advertises
               | itself as a solution to a Hackerrrank problem might fall
               | under trademark infringement or some such law, and
               | something stating the particular problem being being
               | solved might be an infringement of a copyright on the
               | problem as stated by Hackerrank.
        
           | randombits0 wrote:
           | Not in the least. Copyright applies to creative expressions,
           | not functional expressions. My solution to your problem is my
           | creative expression, not yours.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | If only because you could get the answer wrong.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | Seems to me that's the simplest and most intuitive point of
           | view. Can you imagine publishing a question and then owning
           | the copyright to every answer to it someone writes!?
        
             | rocqua wrote:
             | There is a difference between "Questions" and "test
             | questions with a known specific solution". One could argue
             | (I would not) that the solution to a test question is an
             | integral part of the question and therefor if the one can
             | be protected by copyright, so can the other".
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | Is there any legal basis for that argument?
        
               | RattleyCooper wrote:
               | Nope
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | While that would apply to simple maths questions -- 16x16
               | is always 256 -- I don't see that applying to HackerRank
               | programming challenges, where the challenges (last time I
               | used it) are essentially "produce correct output from
               | this mostly-secret input", and they don't even mind which
               | _language_ you use to do this, never mind what variable
               | names you use.
        
         | oaiey wrote:
         | well... strictly speaking ... how can a git repo exist when a
         | single artifact is blocked. the hashes will not sum up anymore.
        
           | Miner49er wrote:
           | Since we're getting technical, couldn't you could find a hash
           | collision in the repo without the artifact to make them sum
           | up again?
        
             | hannob wrote:
             | No, that's not how it works. (Finding a hash collission for
             | an existing hash would be a preimage attack, and that's not
             | possible for SHA1 with computing power available to
             | humans.)
        
               | tmstieff wrote:
               | SHA-1 collisions have been proven as an attack vector for
               | a few years now.
               | 
               | https://security.googleblog.com/2017/02/announcing-first-
               | sha...
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | And, as the parent correctly pointed out, that would be a
               | preimage attack, which is far harder.
        
               | IncRnd wrote:
               | SHA-1 as cryptography was broken in 2005. The first
               | collision created by humans was in 2017.
               | 
               | See https://shattered.it for the practicals.
        
               | johnsoft wrote:
               | SHAttered is a collision attack. A collision attack is
               | easier than a preimage attack. There are no known
               | preimage attacks against SHA-1.
        
               | IncRnd wrote:
               | I never wrote shattered is a preimage attack. What I
               | wrote is exactly correct. There are multiple preimage
               | attacks, neither of which I referenced.
               | 
               | A first preimage is where one searches for h(m1)=h(m2). A
               | second preimage attack is where, given m1, find m2 such
               | that h(m1)=h(m2).
               | 
               | It's best not to give the incorrect impression when
               | discussing something exact. As with any crypto, the
               | construction is either valid or not, but it is actually
               | the use of the construction that determines real world
               | correctness.
               | 
               | For example, if SHA-1 is used over input where there is
               | known data in specific positions, that is quite different
               | to SHA-1 over unknown data. In pratice, the first is
               | often the case.
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | ... Or even against MD5, IIRC, which is why you are still
               | kind of able to use HMAC-MD5. You probably still
               | shouldn't, but I don't know of any other symmetric
               | authenticator that is as short and requires neither vast
               | tables of constants nor 64-bit operations for an
               | implementation. (For all the recent lightweight crypto
               | work, the only cipher I can reasonably see myself
               | implementing on an oldish ATMega without disgust is the
               | NSA's Speck, with all the accompanying caveats, and there
               | isn't a single hash of a comparable complexity at all.)
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | In theory. In practice, since you roughly know the
               | contents of the file, you could probably brute-force it
               | pretty efficiently.
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | That just makes it a second preimage attack, which even
               | SHA-1 is still resistant to.
        
           | AlfeG wrote:
           | Well, GitHub seems to be able to remove single
           | `globalMaximum.hs` file from https://github.com/cmk/HR-
           | Haskell
        
           | aerojoe23 wrote:
           | The hashes will sum to something. To do it, at least as far
           | as I understand, you'd have to use https://git-
           | scm.com/docs/git-filter-branch . This will create a divergent
           | history and the new master branch or any other branches that
           | exists will have to be forced pushed. As far as "but local
           | copies of the repo will have the 'problem files' still" - Yes
           | they would. All parties would have to be notified of the
           | legal request.
           | 
           | I'm not a copyright expert but it seems like enforcing this
           | is another step in the erosion of fair use. Something about
           | transformative works. The problem was transformed into a
           | solution.
           | 
           | On the other hand hackerrank's terms of service should have
           | banned this activity. I would imagine it does. I'm not sure
           | how much leverage that gets them legally though. I suppose
           | once you intend to publish it you're no longer an authorized
           | user, and then you're violating that
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act we
           | see get applied harshly from time to time.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | This is a great point. The author would have to rebase and
           | force push. Or at least Github could try to selectively block
           | access in the web UI.
        
         | tumetab1 wrote:
         | Exactly, very weird DMCA.
         | 
         | Repos like this were DMCA'ed
         | https://github.com/saikrishnareddykatta/react-movie-director...
         | 
         | I think the DMCA is incorrect but the copyright argument might
         | be correct, as in, I imagine that the starting code was
         | provided by HackerRank so they have the copyright. The solution
         | is a whole different thing.
        
       | canyon289 wrote:
       | My blog is on this list. It was very surprising waking up on
       | Saturday to learn my entire blog would be deleted for this, and I
       | had 7 hours to fix it. Ended up using a repo cleaner to remove
       | the file and i wasn't even sure it would be up today bit today
       | but seems like I made it.
       | 
       | I wrote the post 6 years ago when I was trying to break into a
       | programming job. Turns out Hackerrank was worthless for that, and
       | shifting my focus to OSS contributions was much more fruitful.
       | Wrote a whole thread on twitter about it with more detail
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/canyon289/status/1459524967306047494
        
       | egfx wrote:
       | My GitHub repo is on this list https://github.com/egfx/React-
       | Leaderboard
       | 
       | I was dumbfounded to receive this message yesterday. I made this
       | project over 3 years ago and I didn't even know about hacker rank
       | at that time. This project was made because I was seeking a
       | contract job and they asked me to create a leaderboard in react
       | which i did with no code copying whatsoever. I implemented it in
       | react hooks which wasn't natively built into react so I used
       | preact which had the newest feature set. If anything did
       | hackerrank use my work to seed their tests? I see that as the
       | likelihood. Also it could be because I used the text copy from
       | the contracting job that asked me to create a leaderboard in the
       | readme. In truth it could be either but this has become yet
       | another pitch fork into a very difficult time where I have no job
       | or money to do anything.
        
         | egfx wrote:
         | By the way if anyone reading knows about an opportunity for a
         | frontend engineer please let me know immediately. But my only
         | request is that I don't participate in coding exams.
        
           | jkeuhlen wrote:
           | My company is hiring frontend engineers (React/Typescript
           | stack), but we do have a technical coding interview. What
           | exactly do you mean by "coding exams"? We have a ~2 hour,
           | synchronous technical challenge that all of our engineers go
           | through (as well as screening questions before that point).
           | No leetcode style problems, no take-home tests though.
        
       | stillblue wrote:
       | The Irony is amazing! So much stuff in hackerrank is copy/paste
       | from other sites. And the site is super low quality to boot. This
       | is pure wtfery.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | I bet Copilot will automatically solve most published leetcode-
       | style interview problems. There's tens of thousands of repos out
       | there.
        
       | crossroadsguy wrote:
       | Hackerrank also records videos and takes random screenshots of
       | you when you are taking a tests.
       | 
       | Unfortunately recruiters don't inform about this in advance so
       | that one could know about the privacy policy. When you are taking
       | the test you've to give those permissions.
       | 
       | I think those images can be seen by literally anyone at
       | recruiting company (and then I guess at Hackerrank as well).
       | 
       | edit: Context https://www.hackerrank.com/products/free-trial-
       | search
        
         | 1337shadow wrote:
         | Silly, could just use another computer.
        
         | flippinburgers wrote:
         | Tape over the webcam. Problem solved.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | What about the microphone?
        
             | danuker wrote:
             | unplug or desolder it.
        
               | nabakin wrote:
               | Could remove the driver too
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | Problem not solved. You won't get credit for passing the test
           | if you do that.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > Hackerrank also records videos and takes random screenshots
         | of you when you are taking a tests.
         | 
         | Isn't hacker rank a website? How could it possibly do that?
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | The JavaScript function _Media devices.getUserMedia()_ will
           | do this, and also includes screen sharing possibilities. It
           | will ask the user for permission first but in a test
           | situation, there 's high pressure to accept those permissions
           | or fail the test.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | I see. Okay. So we need to patch that funtion to make them
             | _think_ it 's working. I wonder if there's an extension for
             | that.
        
               | mannykannot wrote:
               | Unless you could substitute a realistic facsimilie of
               | yourself answering the question, you would probably
               | simply be treated as if you had declined to take the
               | test, or be suspected of attempting to cheat. No-one who
               | uses Hackerrank is going to spend any time trying to
               | figure out whether they should consider you as a viable
               | candidate, they will just move on to the next.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > Unless you could substitute a realistic facsimilie of
               | yourself answering the question
               | 
               | Sounds great. Maybe some harmless pre-recorded loop.
               | Whatever it takes to defeat their surveillance. Also I
               | bet someday someone will come up with some AI thing to
               | generate that video feed...
        
               | Deukhoofd wrote:
               | Just set up a fake webcam
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | Will that work with screen shots and screen sharing?
        
               | emidln wrote:
               | They are giving you javascript which executes on your
               | machine in a browser you control. You can override those
               | APIs do do whatever you want. In my teens, this would
               | probably have served up goatse. Now it's likely to get a
               | picture of a stick figure labeled with my name. They
               | might get upset about defeating the webcam. They probably
               | won't hire you. Whether you can afford to stand up to
               | surveillance as the norm depends on your personal views
               | and financial situation.
        
               | Deukhoofd wrote:
               | Should be similar, but you might need to set up some
               | hacks to spoof the browser in thinking it's the screen.
               | 
               | https://testrtc.com/manipulating-getusermedia-available-
               | devi...
        
               | imajoredinecon wrote:
               | No, but other client-side measures could.
        
             | cesarb wrote:
             | What if you don't have a webcam? Most desktop computers
             | don't come with a webcam. If you were warned in advance,
             | you could buy or borrow one, but not if it came as a
             | surprise.
        
               | throwaway890112 wrote:
               | They don't allow you to take the test without the camera.
               | I had to retake the test someother day for Amzn by
               | borrowing laptop. If I remember right microphone should
               | be turned on too.
        
               | stonecharioteer wrote:
               | How about a physical webcam blocker so all you get is a
               | black screen?
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | Websites can ask for permission to use your camera.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | I just deny it by default.
        
               | kcarter80 wrote:
               | Many websites won't function until you approve, and why
               | did you ask your original question if you understood the
               | denial mechanic?
        
               | vultour wrote:
               | Because if a website asks me to use my webcam I assume
               | it's going to use my webcam. Why is it surprising that
               | it's recording video?
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > Many websites won't function until you approve
               | 
               | I suppose we need to find ways to feed them junk data.
               | 
               | > why did you ask your original question
               | 
               | It was the screen shot thing that surprised me. Had no
               | idea that was possible.
        
               | gsich wrote:
               | OBS has a feature for that.
        
           | kcarter80 wrote:
           | Such things have been possible via the web for about a
           | decade.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | I know about camera access, there's a permission prompt for
             | that. Didn't know about screen shots. That's honestly
             | terrifying.
        
               | endless1234 wrote:
               | How is it terrifying? It's pretty nice to be able to
               | share your screen in an online meeting. It has the same
               | kind of permission prompt, of course.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | Because it will be abused. Just like video game anti-
               | cheating software used to periodically take and
               | exfiltrate screenshots without the user's knowledge.
               | Reading the privacy policies of those things was
               | terrifying.
        
               | 0xTJ wrote:
               | That functionality alone, I don't find terrifying. It's
               | what allows web-based video-conferencing with screen
               | sharing. However, I'd consider this an abuse of it, you
               | should not be pressured into giving consent to do that as
               | part of a job application.
               | 
               | The same goes with the terrible online testing platforms
               | that have grown in use during COVID. They're terrible,
               | ineffective, and an invasion in privacy.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > However, I'd consider this an abuse of it, you should
               | not be pressured into giving consent to do that as part
               | of a job application.
               | 
               | Yes, I completely agree. I hate it when Javascript gains
               | new features and capabilities. Everyone is so happy
               | because they'll be able to create more cool stuff, nobody
               | seems to consider how these capabilities will be abused.
        
           | djbusby wrote:
           | GetUserMedia API in the browser
        
       | lanecwagner wrote:
       | Don't use em.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | I wonder if anyone took the time to fork the repos on another Git
       | provider.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | If enough people will refuse to take Hackerrank tests, there will
       | be no more Hackerrank, no more DMCAs. :)
        
       | olingern wrote:
       | If anyone needed a lesson in bad PR for your company, here it is.
        
       | oxfordmale wrote:
       | I noticed there are a few websites having found a work around for
       | this by posting screenshots of the problem and solutions.
        
       | haaserd wrote:
       | Lousy software platform backed up by legal action... The Silicon
       | Valley story.
        
       | auslegung wrote:
       | It would be a shame if thousands of people forked the listed
       | repos and gists...
        
         | sodality2 wrote:
         | They're all taken down already. Forks are automatically
         | manually enumerated by the DMCA'er and removed
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | > Forks are automatically removed
           | 
           | Not from my computer.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | There's one really good reason why you don't want centralized
           | source code control handed off to some US corporation.
        
             | charcircuit wrote:
             | Git is decentralized. You can download a repo from anyone
             | else who has it provided they expose those files to the
             | internet.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Obviously. But that doesn't mean that you know where
               | those other people are without some central place to
               | communicate that, say a 'git hub'. There is a reason
               | Github was served with these DMCA notices: it's a very
               | effective choke point.
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | You don't need to put "US" there, government/corporation
             | overreach is a thing in every country.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | Most countries couldn't care less about imaginary US
               | property. The US forces them to care via trade
               | agreements.
        
               | elzbardico wrote:
               | Indeed, but they DO care about THEIR imaginary property,
               | and because of that they usually don't need to be forced
               | to enter those trade agreements as you seem to believe.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | Most countries start to care very quickly after the US
               | calls them and discuss matters.
               | 
               | Any centralization is fragile. Github is more fragile
               | than what is possible, but there is little point on
               | improving that.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | I know this is a silly hypothetical but say I forked it and
           | then gutted the fork and built my own unrelated project in
           | the repo. GitHub would delete my project that contains zero
           | offending material?
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | yes. (afaik github forks of a repo really all point to the
             | same repo internally)
        
               | idealmedtech wrote:
               | This is only true if you use the fork button. You can
               | easily create a new repo, clone the old repo, and push to
               | the new repo. GitHub will not show a fork relationship
               | between the two.
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | true, I assumed that from the question, because otherwise
               | it wouldn't be a fork in any way if the history has been
               | deleted.
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | I think he just means to create the repo like normal and
               | push your fork there as opposed to creating a fork using
               | the fork button.
        
               | idealmedtech wrote:
               | Even if the history is _exactly the same_ , GitHub only
               | tracks forks made through the fork button. A true git
               | fork (eg anonymous clone, push to brand new repo,
               | preserving all commit history) is not tracked.
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | ... yes, that's what you already said?
        
               | idealmedtech wrote:
               | Based on your comment I thought you only thought it
               | applied when you deleted the history, just wanted to
               | clarify.
        
             | dotancohen wrote:
             | Your hypothetical project would not contain zero offending
             | material. It's all still in the .git/ folder, in various
             | forms that can be recovered.
        
               | sumtechguy wrote:
               | I was under the impression that you could 'rewrite'
               | history if you wanted by amending, squashing, and
               | removing commits? Or does some of the artifacts still
               | live on?
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Until Git garbage collects, it's all still there
               | (mostly). Sure there are some extraordinarily destructive
               | things like `rm .git/` that you could do, but even if you
               | point a new repo at remote it might not accept the merge
               | (push).
        
               | the_gipsy wrote:
               | Github's "fork relationship" is not stored in .git/ in
               | any way.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | No, but the github server is configured as remote for
               | anything checked out from Github. And I don't know how
               | the remote will handle a merge (push) from a repo with
               | rewritten history.
        
               | the_gipsy wrote:
               | It could not be "recovered" by git in any way.
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | Even with a force push that zeros history?
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Nope. If you remove the history too, then the content is
               | gone.
               | 
               | For good measure, you should also probably run a `git gc`
               | (garbage collect) on the repo too, just to be sure. :)
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | I'm not really sure. Try it, then take a look at reflog
               | and see what's still referenced. Check the size of the
               | .git/ directory as well - is it smaller? There are some
               | ways to rewrite history in git, but until git GCs I
               | believe that they are mostly non-destructive.
               | 
               | I'm sure that you could rm the .git/ and overwrite it but
               | keep it pointing at the same repo. I don't know what
               | would happen on the remote, though, when you push.
        
           | smitop wrote:
           | GitHub's takedown notice template says otherwise: "Have you
           | searched for any forks of the allegedly infringing files or
           | repositories? Each fork is a distinct repository and must be
           | identified separately if you believe it is infringing and
           | wish to have it taken down."
        
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