[HN Gopher] Teliva - an environment for end-user programming
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       Teliva - an environment for end-user programming
        
       Author : escot
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2021-11-15 19:30 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | CGamesPlay wrote:
       | If you're interested in this kind of thing, also check out the
       | Glamorous Toolkit. It basically is a coding environment where you
       | edit itself as it runs.
       | 
       | https://gtoolkit.com
        
         | akkartik wrote:
         | +100 for Glamorous Toolkit. I actually played with it before
         | starting Teliva, and hope to continue using it.
         | 
         | https://github.com/akkartik/gtConwayLife
        
       | akkartik wrote:
       | Thanks for submitting my 4-week old project! Here's a 3-minute
       | demo video showing what it's like to use it right now:
       | https://archive.org/details/akkartik-2021-11-14
        
       | rodgerd wrote:
       | This is a nice palette cleanser after the "disable view source"
       | from the Chrome monopoly.
        
       | Taikonerd wrote:
       | This reminds me of QBasic for DOS -- you have the code and the
       | execution environment tightly integrated. (I think QBasic did
       | have some graphics support, though?)
       | 
       | Thinking back on it, QBasic might have created a generation of
       | programmers -- you would copy a working game from a friend, and
       | then try to modify the source code to let yourself cheat.
        
         | akkartik wrote:
         | Heh, I have another project that's recreating Basic and DOS on
         | some level. Statement-oriented language, SVGA graphics. No
         | networking, no virtual memory, no concurrency. Unlike its
         | forebears, though, lots of RAM and disk, which changes many
         | design choices. And memory-safe code as far as possible; no C
         | anywhere in its dependencies. https://github.com/akkartik/mu
         | 
         | Teliva is basically providing better networking and disk
         | support by compromising on the memory safety. (I'm back to
         | depending hugely on C.)
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | The 64K EGA card in my machine only went up to SCREEN 8
         | (640x200, 16 colors). SCREEN 13 was a distant dream!
         | 
         | QB64 has a compatible statement that supports the original
         | modes:
         | https://www.qb64.org/wiki/SCREEN_(statement)#Legacy_Screen_M...
        
         | auggierose wrote:
         | Yep, my first one. If you don't count .BAT programming.
        
       | still_grokking wrote:
       | The high level idea reminds me of Pharo:
       | 
       | https://pharo.org/
       | 
       | The idea to put the program and runtime together in one unit was
       | core to Smalltalk of course but with Pharo you can get also the
       | "IDE part" bundled.
       | 
       | Once in a time there were even whole computers build on this
       | concept: LISP-machines! Everything running on a LISP-machine is
       | reachable and modifiable by the user (at runtime!) and you would
       | have a build in IDE like editing facility.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system)
       | 
       | > There is little protection against changing the operating
       | system. The whole system is fully accessible and changeable.
       | 
       | DevTools in Browsers are today the closest thing to something
       | like that I guess. But you can only edit a webpage. It's not
       | going down to the level of the OS of course.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-15 23:00 UTC)