[HN Gopher] Steps Towards Happiness (2015)
___________________________________________________________________
Steps Towards Happiness (2015)
Author : wheresvic4
Score : 213 points
Date : 2021-11-14 07:49 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (hintjens.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (hintjens.com)
| cblconfederate wrote:
| We need a neuroscientific definition of happiness before
| embarking in dubious exercises
| areichert wrote:
| A few years ago, I was dealing with some issues around anxiety,
| so I made a little app for myself to track my daily activities
| against my mental health (in the form of 3 assessments [0]
| measuring depression, anxiety, and well-being)
|
| I spent about 9 months logging, and found these to be the top 5
| activities that improved my overall happiness:
|
| - 1. Strenuous exercise (e.g. going hard at the gym, playing a
| sport, taking a dance class, etc.) was a clear winner. (Going for
| a walk or doing light bodyweight exercises at home helped a bit,
| but not nearly as much.)
|
| - 2. Creative activities (e.g. writing, playing music,
| programming), particularly when I could get into a "flow" state.
|
| - 3. Reading long-form content (for at least 20 mins).
|
| - 4. Meditating (for at least 5 mins).
|
| - 5. Spending time with close friends (as opposed to e.g. going
| to parties with acquaintances).
|
| A lot of these things are fairly obvious (and may also vary a bit
| by personality type) but being able to see concrete, quantifiable
| results made it much easier to adopt habits that made me happier
| in the long run!
|
| [0]
| https://github.com/reichert621/health/blob/master/server/db/...
| have_faith wrote:
| 11. Avoid treading a path of prescriptive platitudes.
|
| Yes I see the irony.
| antihero wrote:
| 11: Use HTTPS on your websites :)
| pietherr wrote:
| The author died 5 years a ago, when https was not as common as
| it is now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Hintjens
| antihero wrote:
| Ah, shoot :( That's such a shame! (that they died, not that
| they didn't ever get to use HTTPS).
| zoobab wrote:
| At least there is no cert which expire. And no authority to
| obey.
|
| Pieter was my best friend, a great loss.
|
| But his writings are here to stay, i guess he started to
| write some books after 2009, when he got his first duct
| bill cancer.
| rambambram wrote:
| His book The Psychopath Code helped me tremendously. I
| remember also reading some other books from him. Good
| stuff, food for thought. A great loss indeed.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| for a solidly backed, thoroughly researched book on living
| fulfilling lives that is not Positive Psychology, read Happiness
| Hypothesis.
| kovek wrote:
| Tape your mouth shut when sleeping. Search google/youtube "Mouth
| taping for sleep"
| rnkn wrote:
| > To be happy you must deal with negative emotions. Learn to
| recognize these in yourself, and deal with them. Anger, self-
| pity, jealousy, fear, hate, loneliness... set them aside, and let
| happiness take their place.
|
| And here I was just _not_ setting aside my negative emotions like
| a sucker.
| runeg wrote:
| More emphasis on the dealing with the emotions, and setting
| them aside is a later byproduct of doing the work.
| BasDirks wrote:
| I don't like his proposed end goal. His happiness sounds like a
| mere absense of pain, but other methods will get you there more
| reliably. I like the first items on his list: go into the world
| and mess around, but then he begins to prescribe mental
| cleanliness: finish your plate, associate only with good people,
| don't cling to material possessions. It's like he's picking
| arbitrary chapters from Hesse's Siddhartha. I feel in an uncanny
| valley of dogma.
| fossuser wrote:
| He was dying as he wrote this (Pieter Hintjens died from cancer
| in 2016). I'm happy to see his blog here again, but I suspect
| what he was going through at the time influenced his writing.
| uneoneuno wrote:
| So many of those themes are found outside the Gita, often they
| can be uncovered thru a good life. But the cohesion is missing
| - it does feel like the author cut out small bits of Dogma from
| many 'religions' as they were uncovered or found relevant,
| informed by their experience. The main point I find interesting
| is that each of us does this 'pick and choose'.
| SMAAART wrote:
| Forget being happy. Happiness is a high, therefore temporary.
|
| Seek satisfaction, satisfaction from a job well done after long
| hard hours of work.
|
| OP touches on this in:
|
| > 2. Do things you are bad at - Learning makes us feel alive.
| Challenge yourself, and keep proving you can learn. Learn to
| juggle, to hold your breath underwater for longer, to solve a
| Rubik's cube. Learn to play music and play for yourself. Learn to
| paint and draw.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I agree with all of the points, apart from one:
|
| > Do things you are bad at
|
| I would actually offer the opposite advice: do things you are
| good at. The world today is full of "anyone can do anything" and
| awards for participation etc. But nothing feels better than being
| good at what you do. I attribute a large amount of my happiness
| to doing a job that I'm actually good at. I'm better than 99% of
| people at doing what I do. I don't feel like I'm struggling. I
| don't feel like I'm inadequate. I feel like I'm useful. I feel
| appreciated and respected.
|
| I'm all for continual learning and pushing one's boundaries, but
| start by finding what you are good at. Otherwise you're forever
| going to feel mediocre and out of your depth.
| simonswords82 wrote:
| You should probably do a combination of things you are good and
| bad at.
| Communitivity wrote:
| The man is still a beacon, after dying in 2016, as an engineer
| and as a person. He wasn't perfect, but he is responsible for a
| number of things. He co-founded ZeroMQ, created AMQP, was CEO of
| Wikidot, helped create RestMS and wrote many insightful and
| illuminating articles, especially on living well and dying well.
| Every once in a while I find something he wrote that I haven't
| seen and save it. This is one of those.
| HamburgerEmoji wrote:
| Step 10 seems to be about equanimity. If you find it hard to be
| equanimous, there is very old practice that will help you
| cultivate it.
| https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the...
| vjust wrote:
| >10. Want nothing, accept everything
|
| "Accept everything" was a big one for me. It helped me deal with
| anxiety about future, amid uncertainty.
| [deleted]
| nodejs_rulez_1 wrote:
| The intentions there are good, but reads bit unrealistic in some
| places. Being a boomer, author doesn't realise how far
| financially he is then many people who are younger.
|
| _> Stop wasting your time on commuting, boring jobs, meetings,
| TV. Do only things that you feel are worthwhile, with people you
| like. If this means a cut in income, so be it._
|
| TV - sure, commuting - thanks to COVID only, the rest - sorry,
| but I would like a house/pension/family.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| > If this means a cut in income, so be it
|
| I mean, if I had the luxury of taking a cut in income without
| having to sell my house or whatever, I wouldn't mind. But as it
| stands, it's a luxury I and many others just can't afford.
|
| And I don't 'waste' my time on commutes either, WFH and all. My
| commute, once the office is open again, is actually the main
| exercise I get (20-30 minute bike ride)
| jackhiggs wrote:
| I agree, but I'm going to go in harder.
|
| The author seems to think that people have infinite time. Many
| points require an allocation of time that most people - in
| particular those with families and caring responsibilities - do
| not have.
|
| Remove bad actors? What if the bad actor is the mother/father
| of your kids? What if they're a parent who requires care
| you/they can't afford so you have to do it yourself?
|
| It's all so simple isn't it. 10 steps to banality.
|
| It could be rewritten as "have enough money to do what you want
| without being overly concerned about the consequences, because
| you can make the consequences someone else's problem with your
| money"
| bremac wrote:
| For what it's worth, Peter wrote this a little more than a
| year before he died due to metastatic cancer. I suspect he
| understood quite well that time is finite.
| fnord123 wrote:
| The author was from Belgium before he passed away five years
| ago from cancer. His perspective may be rooted in the Belgian
| experience where health care is affordable, there is a social
| safety net, and cheap access to mental health support.
|
| If you live in a place where you must care for your parent
| because professional care is not affordable then perhaps look
| into organizing or supporting political will to make it
| affordable (4. Be part of bigger things). And if you live in
| the US where this political will is destroyed before
| conception, then I guess find another blog post to help guide
| you to happiness.
| rambambram wrote:
| I think the author - who passed away unfortunately - has more
| than enough to say about dealing with bad actors. Read his
| book The Psychopath Code.
| tavish1 wrote:
| just replying to the part about bad actors - he is talking
| specifically about narcissists and psychopaths. If you have
| to cut out your parent because of some inconvenience (and not
| because they are narcissists and severely affect your life),
| then that makes you not so empathetic, and that is absolutely
| not what he argues for in his book psychopath code.
| 59125throwaya wrote:
| Worth taking a 5 second look into Peter's background. He was
| overall a pretty amazing dude.
| stinos wrote:
| Just like in e.g. programming 'design principles' are called
| principles, not 'hard design rules all of which you must strive
| to follow to the letter' I'm pretty sure the author's intention
| is for these 10 things to be interpreted like the former, not
| the latter (also see sibling comments).
| itistricky wrote:
| The link is weird. What is :99 at the end of it?
| speedgoose wrote:
| Probably the identifier of the article. A long time ago, we
| used to use auto-incremented positive integers straight from
| the database instead of UUID or adjective-adjective-noun.
| alexjurkiewicz wrote:
| It's part of the URL path.
|
| schema: http, domain: hintjens.com, url path: /blog:99
|
| It looks a bit like a port number, but it's in the wrong place.
| For that you'd want http://hintjens.com:99/blog
| virtualritz wrote:
| 'Commute less' should be taken with a grain of salt unless one
| talks about cars.
|
| Any form of transport I take where I am not driving the vehicle
| myself gives me time to read, relax, think - even meditate
| (trains are great for this).
|
| I know for a fact that I read most books/month in my life in
| times I had a job that included at least 20 mins of commute (one
| way) on public transport.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I have found that having more free time does not necessarily
| allow me to be more productive. Productivity, creative
| pursuits, still require down-time, pauses between creative
| activities where, like dreaming, you can process and consider
| your next steps.
|
| Commuting, walking, can be those break times between productive
| bursts.
| k8sToGo wrote:
| Personally, I get that time of thinking during driving. In
| fact, I hate taking public transportation after work since it
| is always noisy etc.
| crocodiletears wrote:
| I love commuting in my car. It's one of the only times I'm
| guaranteed solitude, and an opportunity to listen to or think
| about whatever I want in an enclosed space without interruption
| or surveillance (older car).
| corecoder wrote:
| It much depends: if trains are very frequent, train stations
| easy to reach and you only take one single train, that's one
| kind of experience. If there's few trains, you have _every day_
| the anxiety of risking to loose the train and the be very late,
| or in some cases, absent for the day.
|
| If the train station is hard to reach, you have stress along
| the way.
|
| If you have to switch three trains, you cannot concentrate on
| your book/podcast/whatever, because you must always check if
| it's your stop, and then maybe you have to sprint to take the
| next train.
|
| Can be unpleasant.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| I enjoy traveling by train, but I'd never want to _commute_ by
| train. Even if you can use the time for something else, you 're
| still pre-committing to spend that time in transit, which
| changes the effective workday from ~8-9 hours (counting lunch)
| to ~11-12 hours. It doesn't matter that that isn't "work" time;
| it's still time that's pre-committed and constrained. That
| makes a substantial difference in how much free time you have
| that's _not_ spent in transit.
| roland35 wrote:
| A comfortable train ride is nice, but I had a chance to listen
| to many books on tape and podcasts when I had a long driving
| commute. It also was helpful to be able to stop at a store if I
| needed something on the way to work or home.
|
| That said, I am very happy to work from home now!
| laputan_machine wrote:
| For you, perhaps. Public transport for me involves having to
| fight for a space in an incredibly crowded environment, having
| to take multiple buses or a bus + tram, it's expensive, smelly
| and a vector for illnesses. I read a lot of books on my
| commute, but for me the cons outweigh the pros by quite a
| margin. No thanks!
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hmm, in my time we'd have said something like that builds
| character.
| laputan_machine wrote:
| I commuted from the age of 11 until 21, when I had finally
| had enough of the BS to buy a bicycle and learn how to
| navigate the pot-hole-ridden roads of UK cities, figure out
| how to avoid getting killed by tired motorists and how to
| quickly fix a punctured tyre in -4c.
|
| Those things build character. Sitting in a bus just breeds
| resentment.
| TimPC wrote:
| I used to be very big on commuting less. Then my wife got
| pregnant and suddenly it was more important to be in the right
| school district and close enough to my parents that they can
| come over regularly to visit and help. I find that shortening
| other people's commutes to you changes their behaviour in ways
| that involve seeing you far more. Shortening your commute adds
| time to your day but doesn't really change the things you can
| do in that time. These days I value the extra interactions far
| more than the extra time. For what it's worth in non-COVID
| times I'm a subway commuter who mostly reads on the subway.
| michaelgrafl wrote:
| In terms of commuting, 20 minutes is my threshold for starting
| counting the minutes.
|
| Anything up to 20 minutes is zero in my mind.
|
| I used to commute 90 minutes via public transport. Twice daily.
| Did I read a lot? Sure. It still was a nightmare.
|
| I now commute 17 minutes by car. Biggest improvement of life
| quality I've ever had.
| enriquto wrote:
| I'd say that even if you "drive" yourself, the commute can be a
| pleasurable experience, depending on the circumstances. I for
| one love my commute (which is a calm promenade in the woods on
| my bicycle). But this is very specific: even a much shorter
| commute but inside the city traffic and among cars and red
| lights would be a nightmare.
| hvidgaard wrote:
| Maybe you have some podcasts you want to listen to. Or books.
| Or just music. A car can be a joy too, but I would struggle to
| fill 1 hour each way though.
| jll29 wrote:
| There are some pieces of good advice in there, but it is
| ultimately a selfish list.
|
| "Mingle with others" because it makes _you_ happy implies _using_
| other people; a better way is to _serve_ others ("Love thy
| neighbor like yourself"), which leads to a deeper happiness based
| on purpose.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| They do talk about being a part of a bigger thing -- to me this
| implies serving a greater cause, serving others in need.
| refurb wrote:
| To me it's all about expectations (realistic or not) and wether
| they are met.
|
| Expect to be poor and if you hit middle class you'll be happy and
| grateful.
|
| Expect to be rich and the same outcome will produce depression.
|
| Not to sound like a stoicism fanatic, but that's one aspect that
| helps. Reminding yourself of everything you could lose drives
| some appreciation for what you have, whatever it is.
|
| And yes, acknowledgement that humans evolved to _never_ be
| satisfied with their current situation helps as well. Breaking
| free of "things need to get better" is great for mental health
| but means your also fighting against hundreds of thousands of
| years of evolution.
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| >Reminding yourself of everything you could lose drives some
| appreciation for what you have, whatever it is.
|
| Does that actually work for some people? Thinking about loss
| usually gives me a dragon like need to hoard, and guard the
| hoard.
| refurb wrote:
| My phrasing was poor. And again, I'm not a "stoicism is the
| answer" type person, I've just noticed an overlap of my own
| thoughts and what stoicism offers.
|
| It's not so much reminding yourself of everything you could
| lose. It's more like "hey my friends wife's got cancer and
| might die from it".
|
| Instead of saying "I feel bad for them and lucky it wasn't
| me" the thought is "that could have just as easily been me"
| and "that could be me next year".
|
| It's the realization that you're not special. All the
| maladies that afflict your peers could just as easily afflict
| you.
|
| That attitude definitely helps to clarify priorities. When
| you partner says "let's go out for breakfast" instead of
| saying "we can do that another day, I have a meeting", you
| decide to go because who knows what tomorrow brings?
| jdavis703 wrote:
| Yes, but I think it's wrong to think of it in terms of
| material loss -- thinking what would happen if you lost your
| 401(k) balance isn't going to make you happier. But thinking
| what would happen if you lost your important relationships or
| material things that bring you particular joy (a house, a
| car, an espresso machine, etc).
| pdimitar wrote:
| I agree with your comment a lot. Don't think of me as a
| nitpicker, I simply want to add a nuance to this statement:
|
| > _Reminding yourself of everything you could lose drives some
| appreciation for what you have, whatever it is._
|
| I have observed many people having trouble with that and I
| agree with you that this is very much needed in our lives to
| give us some humility.
|
| That being said, to some people -- myself included -- this
| happened way too many times and they can't have appreciation
| through that vector anymore. My brain switched to "I am sick of
| hearing this! I will level up and won't have to think about
| never being threatened with living under a bridge ever again!".
|
| Of course, the hedonistic treadmill the article mentions is
| very much real -- we are never satisfied with what we have.
| However, it's very possible to arrive at the mindset where you
| are like "eh, I'd feel a bit better if I had a $500K in the
| bank and not only $200K" but objectively, when you've grown up
| and lived in a poor country for most of your life, I think it's
| easier to NOT get stressed about the statement in quotes.
|
| And I agree on the evolution part. I'd theorize this mindset of
| ours has evolved because we developed in a very harsh
| environment (ice age) and we wanted to optimize our lives for
| less work and more leisure. Ironically, nowadays humanity at
| large fails miserably at just that... but that's really a very
| different topic.
| refurb wrote:
| Interesting comment on appreciation. It's not easy by any
| means and I've found myself fall into thought patterns where
| I start to feel like I've been cheated by life.
|
| But at least for me, a lot of it is driven by distraction.
| Work becomes overwhelming. Or family becomes too hard to
| juggle. So caught up in what's in front of you that you lose
| the big picture.
|
| Where I've found clarity is in the "being present mindset".
| Giving my son a bath and noticing just how much he changes
| everyday and what that experience must be like for him
| reminds me that time is fleeting. Often what we value most in
| the future are the experiences of the past. And taking the
| time to truly connect with my son will be one of those things
| I'll look back on in 10 years and _truly appreciate that I
| took that time_.
|
| And don't get me wrong. The hedonistic treadmill is the
| reason we went to the moon. Never being satisfied will drive
| humanity to do incredible things, but it will also drive
| people to depression. It's neither good nor bad but just is.
| Acknowledging that and seeing it in yourself can help
| immensely.
| pdimitar wrote:
| I don't disagree with what you are saying but you are
| saying it to the wrong person.
|
| I am acutely aware how fleeting time is, believe me. It's
| just that most of my life I've been way too stressed to do
| anything about that. It's a death spiral.
|
| If you came to me 5 years ago and told me "just relax, man,
| take your time" you'd likely receive a fist to the face and
| I'd yell at you: "THAT'S NOT AT ALL HELPFUL RIGHT NOW, SHUT
| UP!".
|
| You likely live in an environment where _realizing_ the
| things you mention is 99% of the battle so your advice is
| optimized towards that. You have to understand however that
| in most of the world the 99% of the battle is not being
| smart of understanding these things; most people around me
| are well-aware of them by the time they hit 23 _at the
| most_. Our 99% of the battle is _allocating the time and
| energy_ to live in the present and just manage to have any
| leisure _at all_.
|
| For many us just stopping to smell the flowers is
| _physically impossible_ because we 'd lose valuable capital
| (in one form or another) if we do it even for 30 minutes.
| Yep, I am not exaggerating, my life has been hell in the
| past.
|
| So don't get me wrong as well -- your perspective is
| valuable. Just not to me and to many others who found that
| out ages ago and are now extremely saddened because they
| can't employ this wisdom yet.
|
| Currently in my life I am fighting tooth and nail to be
| able to start living my life under the principles you
| mention. It's the hardest thing I ever did but IMO it's
| worth fighting that battle.
| refurb wrote:
| Oh I'm certainly not telling you it's a solution or that
| it's easy (and I think you get that). It's just what has
| worked for me (based on my own perceptions).
| long_time_gone wrote:
| > Often what we value most in the future are the
| experiences of the past.
|
| Thank you for this phrase.
| joshxyz wrote:
| Damn, rest in peace hintjens
| 6ardamu wrote:
| There are several mentions that Peter died from metastatic
| cancer. This is not entirely accurate. He choose to leave this
| world using euthanasia as his last tweet shows[0]. Euthanasia is
| legal in Belgium.
|
| [0]: https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/783254242052206592?s=20
| timdaub wrote:
| Hintjens is quoted too little these days considering how great
| many of his speeches and essays are. To me, he's the epistemic
| authority on developing software collaboratively and following
| his principles has aided my career.
|
| "Social Architecture" should be read by any aspiring open source
| developer.
| drclau wrote:
| Every time I hear or read about happiness, I remember this quote
| from Thomas Metzinger. I hope you'll find it useful, too:
|
| "Evolution as such is not a process to be glorified: It is blind,
| driven by chance and not by insight. It is merciless and
| sacrifices individuals. It invented the reward system in the
| brain; it invented positive and negative feelings to motivate our
| behavior; it placed us on a hedonic treadmill that constantly
| forces us to try to be as happy as possible--to feel good--
| without ever reaching a stable state. But as we can now clearly
| see, this process has not optimized our brains and minds toward
| happiness as such. Biological Ego Machines such as Homo sapiens
| are efficient and elegant, but many empirical data point to the
| fact that happiness was never an end in itself."
|
| -- "The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the
| Self", Thomas Metzinger
| lukebuehler wrote:
| Well, if you want a really reductionist view of happiness,
| which also happens to be largely true, you could say: have
| children.
| lexapro wrote:
| There are many studies on this; parents are less happy than
| non-parents on average.
| monkeybutton wrote:
| Evolution and my mother in law agree on one thing: the answer
| is have grandchildren.
| d3ckard wrote:
| It kind of works, honestly.
|
| Since my son was born earlier this year (first kid), I
| certainly see how he can effortlessly make me happy in a way
| I found hard to achieve earlier.
|
| While I handled most of my depression-like issues before
| (mostly anxiety), he seems to have a great impact on making
| me feel fully recovered, motivated and wanting things from
| life again.
| lukebuehler wrote:
| Yep, I have many of them. It's hard, and and sleep
| deprivation is not the most direct path to Zen. But...
| behind it all there is this deep seated satisfaction and,
| yes, happiness with raising children.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Depends on age, I think. At 3 years old mine is quite
| capable of invoking an anxiety attack at will.
|
| On the other hand, you are basically forced to deal with it
| instead of running away, can't leave the kiddo alone.
| Kinrany wrote:
| > Evolution as such is not a process to be glorified: It is
| blind, driven by chance and not by insight. It is merciless
| and sacrifices individuals.
|
| I don't think the author of the quote would agree that giving
| up and doing exactly what the system was designed to force
| you to do is the best solution.
| j4hdufd8 wrote:
| What does that mean?
| lukebuehler wrote:
| The quote in the parent comment says that the whole hedonic
| machinery within us is a result of natural selection, of
| which conscious happiness is just a side effect. Then why
| not just go ahead and do what that machinery drives you do
| to: go and have offspring. Chances are that this is the
| nexus where most happiness can be found.
| j4hdufd8 wrote:
| Wow, that... makes a lot of sense. It's one of those
| things I already knew intuitively but couldn't formalize
| why.
| DecayingOrganic wrote:
| When you have children, why should evolution be seen as under
| pressure to make you happy? If the ultimate goal is to ensure
| that you will care for them for the time necessary for the
| offspring's wellbeing, there are various ways to do this
| without making the parents happy; in fact, making the parents
| happy may be counterproductive.
| lukebuehler wrote:
| What alternatives do you suggest? Guilt?
| TaXaZ wrote:
| I think it BCZ actually doesn't stem from happiness or even
| lack of it (say hello to functioning unhappy parents).
| Children give strong "purpose" and hijack the dopamine
| circuitry which is the real driver behind human drive,
| evolutionary speaking (yes they also hijack some other
| circuitry as well, but the real drive is the dopamine
| system). TLDR, you're right, it works on another dimension
| which is even more fundamental than happiness dimension.
| The dopamine circuitry stems from lizard brain and quite
| old, evolutionary speaking.
| alexvoda wrote:
| Just a note, the Triune brain theory, implied by you
| saying "lizard brain", is not actually part of scientific
| consensus. It was incredibly popular (even being cited by
| Carl Sagan) and still retains a lot of popularity among
| the public, but it seems it is no longer regarded as
| factual.
|
| https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0963721420917687
| kolleykibber wrote:
| Well, the parents are not happy all the time. But when the
| offspring are safe and happy, the parents will be generally
| happy. Should a threat to the offspring exist, the parents
| will not be happy. Seems to fit with the gene's plan.
| refurb wrote:
| Not to be trite but I feel like a big part of the happiness
| that children produce is just a focus on someone else's
| happiness other than your own.
|
| It's hard to worry too much when someone else's existence
| depends on you. It's incredibly hard, but like most things
| that are incredibly hard that's where the contentment is
| found.
| taneq wrote:
| > just a focus on someone else's happiness other than your
| own.
|
| That's a pretty universal ingredient in any roadmap to
| happiness, isn't it? I mean that's basically the Christmas
| Spirit right there.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| States of satisfaction and euphoria are normal. Being good and
| doing good are fine objectives in of themselves. To be in a
| constant state of satisfaction and euphoria is unrealistic,
| unless it's an illusion achieved by a soma pill [1] or a
| hallucinatory sociological construct.[2]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self
| DerekBickerton wrote:
| > To be in a constant state of satisfaction and euphoria is
| unrealistic
|
| I've read the accounts of near death experiences in The
| Tibetan Book of Living & Dying, and I recall many people
| being exceedingly euphoric, as if they have been freed of the
| grasping and attachments of life, like a river joining back
| to the sea if you will.
|
| Temporarily we wear this meat-suit and then rejoin the spirit
| world / etheric world, and many people call this 'heaven' or
| other words. Imagine being permanently on MDMA or something.
| dandanua wrote:
| > happiness was never an end in itself
|
| It's even worse than that. From an evolutionary point of view
| happiness is a _dead end_. There is no reason to evolve if you
| are happy.
| Communitivity wrote:
| You can evolve to bring happiness to others.
| bserge wrote:
| Everyone else talking about having kids is doing this.
| Helping others brings a sort of happiness that can't be
| experienced any other way.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| > Want nothing, accept everything
|
| This can be a big obstacle to contentment for me and many people
| I know. It's just so easy to think "What do I want right now/in
| the future?" and then get down-in-the-dumps because reality
| doesn't correspond to this totally arbitrary thing you just
| imagined
| yesbut wrote:
| Anger and happiness are extremes. Shoot for contentment.
| tromp wrote:
| These two sentences jumped out to me:
|
| > Nothing makes us happier than other people.
|
| > Nothing can make us more miserable than other people.
| log101 wrote:
| I don't know why but the first step--invest in your senses seemed
| to be most insightful one.
| dukoid wrote:
| Re: "Finish your projects": Don't turn your hobby or side project
| into another "work": Keep projects small or modular.
| zcw100 wrote:
| Every time I read something like this I always think they have
| the causality backward which I think that anyone who has ever
| suffered from depression can attest to. The food doesn't make you
| happy, you're predisposed to finding happiness. You wouldn't say
| that bad food makes you unhappy would you? Disappointed maybe but
| under normal circumstances it wouldn't cause unhappiness. If you
| were depressed it might, and you would find it difficult to find
| happiness in even good food.
|
| Everyone has heard the story of the person who toils under great
| hardship and still manages to find joy in life. That's sort of
| the opposite of depression and it isn't necessarily good. People
| who are content to toil in hardship might find it difficult to
| motivate themselves to change their situation. It's a balance
| between the internal and external. Even the definition of what is
| good food is malleable. The chef or food critic might be repulsed
| by Taco Bell while someone else might enjoy every bite.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Perhaps it is in part the process of making your own food that
| is also therapeutic.
|
| I think we fill our days with positive and negative "karma" all
| the time and are unaware of it, losing clarity of even the bad
| karma as so much background noise.
|
| Perhaps it is only in times of crisis that we are specifically
| tuned to see the accumulative effect of the negative karma, can
| see it for what it is. I feel that way myself anyway -- and
| then try to redouble my efforts going forward of pushing away
| those detrimental influences.
| Thursday24 wrote:
| Agree with this. The logic behind this is simple. The human
| being is part of the universe, hence subject to causation &
| perceived chance. The human being doesn't get to "choose" the
| architecture of the body at birth, no choice in breathing, the
| eyes are going to blink and so on. And the idea of "volition"
| goes out of the window the moment we ask a question such as:
| "where did this prior thought come from?" The universe is a
| massive machine and men and women are little machines operating
| in service to the larger whole. Pain, pleasure, happiness and
| depression are universal mechanisms which allow totality to
| function, but human beings in general tend to construct a
| personal narrative. Once one fully accepts causation, then the
| struggle goes away little by little, since the "personal story"
| dissipates, and only "universal law in motion" remains.
| vgchh wrote:
| Few changes that have helped me greatly towards a happier life
| are:
|
| 1. Cutting out alcohol
|
| 2. 15 minute meditation before sleeping
|
| 3. Regular exercise - e.g from YouTube
|
| 4. Eating less...sort of intermittent fasting
|
| 5. Reminding myself to do actions/thoughts that my soul would
| approve of. Others can do what their soul approves of or not.
| This has been especially useful. For example I am no longer hurt
| if someone is being mean. Ultimately they have to be a witness to
| their soul and are probably just having a bad day. I can't get
| inside them and fix it for them.
|
| Edit:
|
| These steps have essentially made me more alert - more capable if
| you will. I am able to deal better with good and bad.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| I mean this list seems obvious but its incredible how few
| people do it.
|
| Intermittent fasting is the only way I have been able to
| control my weight as an adult.
|
| Exercising makes you feel better and live longer.
|
| Alcohol is a poison that offers short term fun for long term
| sadness and pain.
|
| Sleep makes an immediately and daily impact on your life.
|
| Meditation (I don't do it anymore) is like cleaning for your
| brain and short amounts can be very helpful.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| >Alcohol is a poison that offers short term fun for long term
| sadness and pain.
|
| Alcohol in _excess_? Certainly, but I don 't buy the idea
| that alcohol in moderation is harmful.
|
| There have, of course, been studies that draw negative
| conclusions about alcohol, but they either commingle societal
| effects or discount the cardiovascular benefits.
|
| TLDR: Alcohol in moderation is fine. Just don't drink to
| excess. Nearly all the negative impacts of alcohol are on a
| J-shaped curve that increase exponentially beyond about 20
| drinks / week, and that is far from 'moderate' drinking.
| ketzo wrote:
| I mean, this is purely anecdotal, but if I drink two or
| three glasses of wine in a night, I get noticeably worse
| sleep quality than if I drink nothing.
|
| There are long-term effects associated with heavy drinking,
| but there are also short-term negative effects (for some
| people) associated with pretty much any alcohol consumption
| at all. Headaches, acid reflux, etc.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| Yep, some people are especially sensitive to alcohol, and
| it does absolutely trash one's rem sleep. This is why I
| typically only drink on the weekends, limit consumption,
| and try not to drink after 4-5pm.
| mahogany wrote:
| The J-shaped curves that you mention might be due to flaws
| in study design. In particular, the category of alcohol-
| abstainers includes people who are abstaining for health-
| related reasons (for example, former heavy drinkers!), so
| you would expect this to inflate the rate of negative
| impacts for abstainers. When these biases are controlled
| for, the benefits of alcohol consumption -- in any quantity
| -- largely disappear, especially when it comes to all-cause
| mortality, where the relationship may be closer to linear
| than J-shaped.
|
| For example, see:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803651/ or
| https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(18)31571-X (has some
| useful references)
|
| If you have seen other studies which refute these ideas,
| I'm interested (as an alcohol consumer :)).
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| Yeah, the 'sick quitter' problem is pretty tricky, but
| even if you look at studies that only consider cancer
| rates, yes, the rates rise with consumption, but things
| really only explode exponentially past a certain point
| that is _way_ higher than anyone should be drinking.
|
| Personally, I typically limit myself to a 6 pack a week.
| I think even a 12 pack a week wouldn't do much harm, and
| if we're talking about happiness, having a beer with
| friends certainly does add to that. I am perfectly
| willing to accept a small increased risk for that. None
| of us are making it out of this life alive.
| mahogany wrote:
| > and if we're talking about happiness, having a beer
| with friends certainly does add to that. I am perfectly
| willing to accept a small increased risk for that.
|
| That I can definitely agree with. Over-optimizing your
| every action solely to lower your mortality chance by
| tiny fractions is no way to go through life.
| kcrx wrote:
| I like this a lot. I've struggled with... let's call it
| unhappiness a lot in my life. I spent years trying to work
| through deep emotional things intellectually, but the things
| that really got me on the right track were:
|
| 1. Sleeping 8 hours a day 2. Eating less processed foods & more
| fruits and vegetables 3. Walking
|
| Simple things, and they all took time to turn into habits, but
| better health/more energy eventually made everything else so
| much easier.
| kordlessagain wrote:
| Maybe learning what kills happiness (reference to that post
| on how to kill pilots) leads to happiness?
| q_andrew wrote:
| 7 ways to maximize misery (one of the more useful CGP Grey
| videos) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o
| kcrx wrote:
| I'm going to borrow that way of thinking about it. Removing
| obstacles, letting go, etc.
| farseer wrote:
| >>Above all, explore the world without desire or demand
|
| Go all Yoda eh?
| MauranKilom wrote:
| I personally subscribe to the advice given in The Subtle Art Of
| Not Giving A F*ck: You only get to choose your struggles in life.
| Happiness is the transient feeling in having dealt with a
| problem. You'll never run out of problems to deal with,
| therefore, the one thing to care about is what problems you end
| up engaging with (i.e. "give a f*ck about").
|
| To that end, the ten items presented in the article are decent
| pointers towards "good" problems you might want to have (and
| which "bad" problems you'd want to avoid). It's part framing and
| part steering your life circumstances.
| Rendello wrote:
| A family member visited recently and talked about family drama
| and how she doesn't want to be a part of it. I realized how I
| had went years without hearing anything about these parts of
| the family, and that I was being exposed to the drama by way of
| "I don't want to be involved with the drama". By engaging I was
| only stoking the drama further, despite the fact that I don't
| know these people and they don't know me.
|
| Relatedly, I really love this line from Meditations:
|
| _A cucumber is bitter. Throw it away. There are briars in the
| road. Turn aside from them. This is enough. Do not add, "And
| why were such things made in the world?"_
| nicbou wrote:
| This book would have made an excellent article. Nonetheless it
| has a great premise: you can apply the KonMari method to
| obligations and get rid of the ones that don't spark joy.
|
| Don't confuse it with the similarly titled book with Mark
| Manson, which reads as if Shia LaBeouf's motivational video was
| turned into a book.
| lgndisgnbdgg wrote:
| I have a question. How did you make it through more than 5
| pages of that book? It reads like an 8th grader that is trying
| his hardest to let you know he's _cool and smart enlightened as
| fuck bro_ and has to curse every other line.
|
| I was cringing so hard in the first pages there is no way I
| could read it. It reads as a sort of pop culture, edgy (and
| trendy) mindfulness / Buddhism comboniation in a self help
| package.
|
| The slew of self help books with sh _t and f_ ck in the titles
| after this books success is amusing though.
| biophysboy wrote:
| Another thing I think that is worth remembering for nerdy,
| passionate, and driven people is that sometimes the sacrifice you
| are ostensibly making for your future happiness is worthless or
| may even backfire.
|
| For the longest time, I felt that persevering past my exhaustion
| point was virtuous and would pay dividends in the long run. And
| there were cases where this was true (e.g. meeting a deadline),
| but otherwise it was just false. Not only was my short-term
| happiness harmed, but it wasn't even worthwhile. I was working
| slower and remembering less.
| go_elmo wrote:
| In the end no one profits from this. Companies profit more from
| fit employees instead of overstressed ones.
| nostromo95 wrote:
| Montaigne often talks about this, but something that's true
| about virtue is that you can't disconnect the action from the
| motivation.
|
| Often what on the surface appears like virtuous fortitude is
| actually obstinacy and lack of self-awareness / imagination!
| kubb wrote:
| In a world where you have to be worried about where you're going
| to live, none of this applies. Survival takes priority.
| amelius wrote:
| Yes, perhaps this is a better framework:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
| KineticLensman wrote:
| Maslow put sex in the wrong place and completely omitted
| wifi.
|
| A more serious challenge is that the relative importance of
| the different levels isn't fixed, but varies according to
| environmental circumstances, individual desires and social
| context / pressure.
| lebuffon wrote:
| For happiness:
|
| "Do more, want less" Dali Lama
| begueradj wrote:
| finally some genuine found the manual of happiness.
| mitchbob wrote:
| (2015)
| pdimitar wrote:
| I don't disagree with the article in principle, but to me it
| seems that us the modern people are pressured much harder than
| previous generations.
|
| At 41 y/o I have arrived at most of the same wisdom but I can't
| see how and where can I implement it.
|
| As others commenters said, I wish I could take a pay cut and work
| on things I love more than my current job. I absolutely can't
| afford it; not because I can't take the income hit month by month
| -- I surely can, let's not forget us the programmers are rather
| privileged -- but I can't afford not saving, especially having in
| mind where does the world seem to go (potential economical crisis
| on the horizon).
|
| If I arrive at a point in my life where I can unquestionably
| abide by the philosophy described in the article, I might cry
| emotionally, while yelling of pain and happiness at the same
| time. For now though, it's still not happening.
|
| _(And that 's leaving aside the fact that I don't necessarily
| agree that material minimalism leads to happiness necessarily.)_
| go_elmo wrote:
| honestly, its just our fears stopping us. As a programmer you
| earn enough in 1-5 years to live like a god in parts of the
| world. To be happy one can also start farming and have a small
| garden somewhere on this planet, live a decent life and be
| happy. Its pure fear stopping us.
| pdimitar wrote:
| That skips way too many details. I am 41 and I was _never_
| able to save a money. Partially because I was stupid,
| absolutely, but I also came to realize how much we are sheep-
| herded into consumerism. And many times we don 't have a
| choice.
|
| People's fridges, ovens, air conditioners, dish washers,
| vacuum cleaners, smartphones etc., nowadays seem to start
| breaking like clockwork literal weeks to months after the
| warranty expires.
|
| So while personal financial responsibility and education can
| and will go a long way, it's important to recognize that we
| live in a fairly rigged and predatory system as well.
|
| My fear is just that: "will I will be stable financially?".
| So far I never was so I can't just drop this fear and start
| breathing freely come tomorrow. These are problems that still
| need addressing.
| lexapro wrote:
| Many programmers can save >50% of their net income. I
| realize that this is not possible in every part of the
| world or in every situation, but if anyone is stable
| financially, it's probably us.
| vlunkr wrote:
| I think this attitude, which is becoming increasingly prevalent
| on the internet, is probably causing tons of unnecessary
| unhappiness.
|
| How many periods in history have there been where the average
| person was comfortable taking a pay cut? Even if there was such
| a period, it would have been true only for a privileged subset
| of the population.
| volkk wrote:
| also hindsight is always 20/20, but if you don't seek to be
| happier now and this looming economic depression that might
| happen doesn't happen for another 10-15 years, then you've
| just spent that much time being unhappy. but on the other
| hand, if you quit your job now and it happens a month from
| now then you'd be kicking yourself hard.
|
| so the only solution is to just make a damn decision, and
| have a plan for either scenario. trying to time unforeseen
| black swan events, or economic factors seem to be a losing
| game. if it wasn't, we'd all be billionaires.
| pdimitar wrote:
| And I think your attitude generalizes too much and glosses
| over way too many things.
|
| We should operate with what can we do _realistically_ . Not
| what can we do hypothetically.
|
| Hypothetically I can stop working now and have money for 3
| months ahead. Realistically, I won't be able to pay rent
| afterwards, or even have food on the table. So I seriously
| disagree with your stance -- but I don't expect you to change
| it.
|
| Modern times are a hamster wheel grind. At one point you just
| get too tired and die, and then the system yells: "NEXT!"
|
| That's the reality in most of the world. Likely not where you
| live though.
| TimPC wrote:
| Financially sure we face more pressure. But let's be honest
| that modern society is practically a utopia compared to being
| drafted into WW2 and facing carnage and death.
| sg47 wrote:
| With WW2, people had a clear goal to look forward to. Ending
| the war. Today, people are drifting aimlessly and just go
| through life which causes more dissatisfaction than being in
| the middle of a war.
| burntoutfire wrote:
| For people in occupied countries (Europe and elsewhere),
| the goal was to merely survive the war and deal with the
| fallout (death of relatives, destruction of property). Even
| with drafts, US was a paradise on earth during 1939-1945
| compared to much of the world.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Cherry picking makes no argument any favours. :P
|
| I agree on WW2, sure, but after WW2? I've spoken with 30+
| elders and they all unanimously agree that life in general
| was much, much better than today. Mostly in terms of upwards
| social mobility. An insane amount of very regular bank
| tellers could afford house, two apartments and 2-3 cars. And
| to put 3 kids in an university.
|
| Nowadays that's a very questionable endeavour.
| groby_b wrote:
| I'd strongly suggest looking for supporting data. If you
| talk to people, you will _inevitably_ hear that "the good
| old times" were better than what we have.
|
| In the 1950s, the average house was still ~3 years of
| average income. Cars were about 9 months of income. So the
| "regular bank teller" with a house, 2 apartments, and 3
| cars... there's something missing in the story.
|
| Let's not even get into the fact that life was
| significantly worse if you happened to be not white or
| male. Black people didn't have their voting rights
| significantly curtailed via Jim Crow laws. Married women
| didn't have the ability to have their own money. Beating
| your spouse was A-OK.
|
| Yes, social mobility was better (for white men).
| Universities were cheaper (a year of tuition was still ~1-2
| months of income).
|
| Medical care was... not so good. Nutrition a non-existent
| concept. (And before we go to the "all natural food", quick
| reminder that the 1950s were the decade of TV dinners and
| _truly_ atrocious recipes)
|
| The 50's certainly had less of the constant stream of
| demands that our current time has. It's not like it was
| purely worse, or the "golden age" image wouldn't hold. But
| as a net, across the population, we've seen improvement. We
| are backsliding the last ~20 years, absolutely. But we're
| still not in 1950.
| golemiprague wrote:
| Is it so much better for black people these days to grow
| up without a dad in some crappy neighbourhood with gun
| shots every weekend comparing to growing up in a family
| in a peaceful neighbourhood in the 50'? I am not so sure
| and I don't see so much intermixing with the rest of the
| American society, blacks still interact mainly among
| themselves so it is not that different from the times
| when this kind of segregation was institutionalised.
| Women also don't seem to be that thrilled from their
| current situation, who said being another HR manager is
| better than being a housewife? From the amount of
| complains you hear about how hard it is to be black or a
| woman these days it seems like they are much less happy,
| at least subjectively.
| lexapro wrote:
| >but I can't afford not saving, especially having in mind where
| does the world seem to go (potential economical crisis on the
| horizon)
|
| That was always the case in history and I would argue we are
| living in one of the best periods ever when it comes to that.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| > but to me it seems that us the modern people are pressured
| much harder than previous generations.
|
| Both my grandfathers were farmers who also had additional jobs
| to make ends meet. My paternal grandfather worked 365 days a
| year with a day off at Easter and Christmas morning in the
| lumber camps for several years to save enough money to buy his
| farm.
|
| This was not unusual for my grand parents generation.
|
| When I was younger, my father worked a full time job and then
| worked in the lumber mill on the weekend and also ran a trap
| line to afford our house.
| pdimitar wrote:
| I've known both extremes. Anecdotes can only take us so far.
| And I am from a poor country.
|
| Even there, elders regularly say life was easier (even if it
| was hard before in the first place). Things can go from bad
| to worse, you know.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > but to me it seems that us the modern people are pressured
| much harder than previous generations.
|
| I don't think this is even close to true. In fact we've got it
| pretty soft compared to many earlier eras. Think about having
| to wake up prior to daybreak to feed the animals, milk the
| cows, start fires for cooking, heating (a lot of wood
| chopping), etc. Having to haul drinking water. Scratching out a
| subsistence living. No or very minimal medical care. Lifespans
| in the 30 to 40 year range.
|
| I think much of the pressure we feel is self-imposed striving
| to keep up with a lifestyle fantasy handed down to us by
| advertising and peer pressure.
| borroka wrote:
| It is a bit naive to think that life was harder (it is
| generally true of course) 100 years ago, and thus the most
| common emotional and physical conditions were fatigue,
| despair, and darkness.
|
| The pressures of life 50-70-100 years ago were very different
| from what we experience in our time, just as the emotional
| and physical pressure and fatigue that come from doing manual
| labor (e.g., moving furniture) is different from the stress
| of a well-paid white-collar job. Naively, one might assume
| that manual, back-breaking work is significantly more
| stressful than a professional job. From a physical, chronic
| body strain perspective, this is true. Also, the white-collar
| professional, say a worker in tech, can make 2-3 times to 10
| times (and more) than a non-specialized blue-collar worker.
| As we know, more money in hand never made a life worse.
|
| But I've been around blue-collar and professional
| environments my whole life, and anecdotally, white-collar
| workers are much more stressed than blue-collar workers, more
| frequently in emotional distress, and almost always in-
| between distressing work issues. And envy and constant
| comparisons that seemed to be endemic in, say, the tech
| world, do more damage than one imagines. There may be a
| former colleague who now has the title of vice president,
| another who invested in crypto and earned a fortune, yet
| another who took home a few million dollars when the start-up
| company he worked for and on which nobody would have bet by
| hook or by crook was acquired, have ruined more than one
| existence.
|
| I, a tech professional who is well paid and has no health
| problems, should be much happier on paper--and I might say
| more relaxed, satisfied, enthusiastic--than a worker moving
| cartons back and forth with a forklift and than I was when I
| had much less money, a less comfortable life, less leisure
| time and fewer professional and personal opportunities, and
| an economically uncertain future ahead.
|
| Why am I not then? Is it because of "more money, more
| opportunities, more problems"? Is it because years ago I had
| the enthusiasm and arrogance of youth and now the more
| careful and cynical pace of those who know they have more to
| lose? Is it because I had that lightheartedness that perhaps
| those in less intellectually demanding jobs have had fewer
| opportunities to lose over time?
|
| I lived all of my youth with my grandparents: born before
| World War II, modest families to be generous, all their lives
| working in the fields, driving trucks, assembling furniture.
| However, I saw very few emotional problems (overt, at least),
| perhaps because they were born and raised in an environment
| that didn't let them dream much and thus didn't favor
| disappointment later on. A wife or husband who "just needs to
| be a good person and work a steady job", a day at the beach
| that was an event they talked about for months if not years.
| There was little envy because in the end relatives and
| friends all lived the same life and the serious problems were
| those coming from poor health. Work ended at 5 or 6 in the
| afternoon, and you would arrive home tired, but you would
| think about work the next day. Dinner and lunch were
| homemade; during the weekend you did the housework and
| visited relatives or friends, and maybe you had ice cream
| here and there.
|
| Would I trade my life for theirs? I wouldn't; I like to have
| opportunities and I have a lot more ambition than my
| grandparents. But, would they have traded theirs for mine? I
| asked my grandfather some time ago, "Would you like to take a
| plane once in your life ?'' He replied no. Maybe that's part
| of the secret.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| Happiness and satisfaction are relative to prior experience.
| I started out my adult life below the poverty line on
| disability, and small things like fresh fruit and veg or
| owning my home or car feel like lavish luxuries to me.
| Someone who was raised with a silver spoon would consider my
| spartan lifestyle miserly.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Factually that's true of course but hey, at least you weren't
| always in debt like most of the people nowadays are. And you
| got to live around nature and eat actual organic food.
|
| I am not looking to the past with rose-tinted glasses, mind
| you -- definitely not all of it. And I didn't mean the farm
| life in particular. I mostly meant the post-WW2 generation.
| It's well-documented (but I don't keep link because why would
| I) that their social upwards mobility actually did exist.
| Very much not the case for most modern people who are just
| scratching to have subsistence living as you mentioned.
|
| Theoretically we can stretch this argument to infinity but in
| practice most people are not going anywhere on the social
| ladder for their entire lives. Let's be honest and realistic
| and look at how things are _today_.
|
| > _I think much of the pressure we feel is self-imposed
| striving to keep up with a lifestyle fantasy handed down to
| us by advertising._
|
| You might be projecting a bit with your statement?
|
| To me, having my own house, no debts and job / business that
| does not burn me out on a regular basis should not be in the
| league of "fantasy lifestyle", no. (Oh, and let's not even
| mention all technology and bureaucracy that by now it's super
| clear was never meant to make our lives easier.)
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > I mostly meant the post-WW2 generation. It's well-
| documented (but I don't keep link because why would I) that
| their social upwards mobility actually did exist.
|
| A short period of the _modern era_ in which the US was
| pretty much the only nation with it 's manufacturing
| capability completely intact after the destruction of WWII.
| The US also realized that funding education was important
| for a time after the war to retrain veterans. It's how so
| many people were able to get college degrees essentially
| for free which helped boost the economy for a generation.
|
| > at least you weren't always in debt like most of the
| people nowadays are
|
| Since it sounds like you're limiting the modern era to
| after 2000, it seems we can stretch things a bit and look
| at the era of The Great Depression as being pre-modern by
| that definition (I think The Depression falls squarely in
| Modernity, but for the sake of argument...). Mortgage debt
| increased 8X from 1920 to 1929. Installment debt increased
| at similar rates. This is far from the first generation
| that's taken on a lot of debt.
|
| Yes, I agree that there are forces at work which conspire
| to keep people in debt, however those forces are not new.
| Things are made worse by the high cost of housing which is
| caused by constrained supply (and a greater population now
| putting more demand on housing), but again, I'm not sure we
| haven't been here before. Pendulums swing. And why are
| houses so much bigger now than they were in that postwar
| era when families were larger? That also leads to higher
| housing costs (some of it is demand and some of it is
| perverse incentives for builders to build bigger houses).
| pdimitar wrote:
| > _Pendulums swing._
|
| IMO that's the key insight in your comment. And the full
| swing of the pendulum from one extreme to the other can
| take more than one generation, essentially losing
| valuable wisdom and letting different generations feeling
| resentful towards each other.
|
| I never claimed we have it worse in history during all of
| its recorded parts. I am simply saying that compared to
| some 60 years ago things are looking quite bleak by
| comparison, economically and in terms of personal well-
| being.
| rnkn wrote:
| It's actually a myth that agrarian lifestyle was all that
| difficult. We have the enduring image of the farmer up at
| dawn, but the reality was that people completed the day's
| work in a few hours and didn't do much for the rest of the
| day.
|
| Capitalism has changed that a bit now though.
|
| That 30-40 year lifespan is also a myth. High mortality
| brings down the average, but people's lifespan has been
| around 70 throughout history.
|
| As for whether people face more psychological pressure than
| previous generations, yeah there are plenty of people whose
| job it is to record and measure this stuff, and they all seem
| to say it has increased. This just may not fit with your
| boomer perspective.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > Capitalism has changed that a bit now though.
|
| So Capitalism has only recently taken hold of the US?
|
| > As for whether people face more psychological pressure
| than previous generations, yeah there are plenty of people
| whose job it is to record and measure this stuff, and they
| all seem to say it has increased.
|
| Even worse than it was during The Great Depression leading
| into WWII? Even worse than it was if you were black in the
| Jim Crow south? Things aren't great now, but let's try to
| keep things in perspective.
| ridethebike wrote:
| As a person who grew up in farmer's family (and who's
| parents are still farmers) I can attest that that kind of
| life is way tougher than being office worker in a city .
| supernovae wrote:
| How so?
| watwut wrote:
| > the reality was that people completed the day's work in a
| few hours and didn't do much for the rest of the day.
|
| That is not plausible. And that is not what you find where
| we have written texts about farmers lifestyles. And, if you
| look in very recent history about lifestyles in behind-the-
| times villages, you don't find that much slack either.
|
| Also, pretty much all arguments about how little farmers
| worked I have seen ignored pretty much any work that did
| not involved food crops directly: making and fixing tools,
| beds, buildings. Making candles. Raising and spinning flax
| to make linen. Sewing cloth, bedsheets etc. Chopping wood.
| Caring about children and animals. All that had to be made
| at home or at least inside village. In an interview with
| old lady from such village, I heard her saying that making
| bedsheets and all that for bride took years. They started
| making it when girl got born.
|
| > That 30-40 year lifespan is also a myth. High mortality
| brings down the average, but people's lifespan has been
| around 70 throughout history.
|
| Yeah, mortality tends to bring down the lifespan average. I
| don't see how you can meaningfully measure lifespan while
| removing people who died from the pool. Women dying in
| childbirths, which was not exceptional at all, should lower
| the estimated lifespan. People dying from accidents that
| could be saved today too.
|
| > As for whether people face more psychological pressure
| than previous generations, yeah there are plenty of people
| whose job it is to record and measure this stuff, and they
| all seem to say it has increased. This just may not fit
| with your boomer perspective.
|
| These statistics don't really exists of old farmer
| communities. They did not had modern diagnostic criteria,
| all that was created much much later. We can guess from
| what people wrote in literature and chronicles.
|
| As for psychological pressures, there was serfdom, slavery,
| impressment, wars. "Wars" meant armies stealing food from
| farmers, that is how armies fed themselves. There was
| poverty too. But of course, a lot depends on which period
| and which place and which social class you talk about.
| Nevertheless, generally, people in the past were in fact
| subjects to stress.
| heywherelogingo wrote:
| One step toward happiness: dismiss these articles. My default
| browser page shows these endlessly - how to happy, how to worry
| less, how to live longer, how to get over this, how to embrace
| that, ... nine times out of ten highly uninformative, targeting
| every possible little concern or fear, an incessant bombardment
| of anxiety media. I immediately dismiss all anxiety media.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I should have thought these were anti-anxiety media but perhaps
| not for everyone.
|
| I enjoy these reminders about what is important in life and
| find I agree with their tenets (just unable to put them into
| practice to the degree I would like).
| andygroundwater wrote:
| This advice is all well and good, but what happens to your state
| of internal bliss when one of you a-hole neighbors deliberately
| brings their dog to do its business on your front lawn. No amount
| to karmic happiness will stop you from wanting just retribution.
| yakshaving_jgt wrote:
| Pieter was a friend of mine, and he certainly wasn't conflict
| averse. If something bothered him, he would do something about
| it.
|
| He used to bring a Nerf gun to conferences just to shoot down
| people's drones because he found them annoying.
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