[HN Gopher] Hoax email blast abused poor coding in FBI website
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hoax email blast abused poor coding in FBI website
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 406 points
       Date   : 2021-11-13 22:47 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | SLWW wrote:
       | It's good that no harm came of it.
       | 
       | Also, on a side note.. this is our gov, this is how they operate.
       | I worked for a short period on a project with the state
       | government and it was miserable. The culture is truly
       | suffocating. I've warned many, gov jobs is where your career goes
       | to die; there is a stigma whenever you go anywhere else even if
       | no one says it
       | 
       | Miserable as in nothing ever got done, even after requesting
       | creds (once i got certified) they dragged their feet for 3
       | months. It was the worst gig.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | Uhhh, there was definitely harm...
         | 
         | The FBI's helpdesk # reportedly got swamped and this probably
         | wasted hundreds if not thousands of man-hours of agents getting
         | panicked calls from organizations they actually work with.
         | 
         | I'm guessing this wasted hundreds of thousands of man-hours of
         | time at organizations around the globe as people tried to
         | figure out WTF was going on. I'd bet a lot of people told their
         | bosses it was obvious bullshit and were told to call a local
         | FBI office to confirm anyway "just in case."
         | 
         | The person who exploited this could have done a proper
         | vulnerability disclosure.
         | 
         | Or sent a genuinely funny/clever message along the lines of "We
         | were lying about the aliens all along, press conference to be
         | held at DoJ HQ this Sunday, 7:15AM" to a couple of news
         | stations.
         | 
         | Whoever did this came across the vulnerability and decided to
         | be an asshole about it.
        
           | addingnumbers wrote:
           | I wish they'd done a self-referential bulletin along the
           | lines of "We have found a vulnerability in one of our
           | security bulletin systems which allows attackers to craft and
           | deliver notifications which seem legitimate..."
        
           | topspin wrote:
           | > The person who exploited this could have done a proper
           | vulnerability disclosure.
           | 
           | If that proper vulnerability disclosure happens to land on
           | the desk of some irrational apparatchik at the FBI that
           | doesn't like your brand of facebook posts or doesn't want to
           | be exposed as an incompetent they won't hesitate to open a
           | file on you and dispatch a cadre of life ruining agents. And
           | before you say "but if it's done properly..." I say hire a
           | good Beltway lawyer before you say a mumbling word because
           | you don't know what 'properly' is or if it even exists.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | Just get Jeff Sutherland he can fix everything.
        
       | rvr_ wrote:
       | We should not blame "the gov" or "organizations". This kind of
       | crap was coded by someone, maybe more than one person. These are
       | the people to blame. Our profession will never be a truly
       | profession until we (developers) are not held accountable for the
       | crap code that we wrote.
        
         | KronisLV wrote:
         | > This kind of crap was coded by someone, maybe more than one
         | person. These are the people to blame.
         | 
         | I'd say it depends on why the actual problem is there.
         | 
         | Did a developer get strong armed into ignoring any potential
         | problems by the management because it was necessary to ship
         | software to meet some made up deadline? I don't think the blame
         | lies with the developer, perhaps more so with the management.
         | 
         | Did a junior developer get tasked with getting something done
         | with ancient technologies that just refuse to cooperate with
         | them properly, without any processes being in place to catch
         | these sorts of issues? I don't think the blame lies entirely
         | with the developer, perhaps more so with the overall
         | environment and the lack of testing, QA and other processes.
         | 
         | Did some developer just not care? Then the blame probably lies
         | with the developer, but if that's the case, why are they even
         | employed in the org, and why wasn't their work caught in one
         | way or another before hitting prod?
         | 
         | Honestly, if we introduce full criminal responsibility for the
         | code that individual contributors write, we'll end up with the
         | same situation that happens in countries that choose to make
         | their doctors have criminal responsibility for procedures gone
         | wrong - they'll simply choose to work in other countries where
         | they're not faced with such circumstances.
        
         | BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
         | Our profession has a relationship with complexity that no other
         | engineering discipline has to deal with.
         | 
         | Other engineers can reasonably design around known variability
         | in the environment. You can engineer a 4x safety margin in a
         | bridge. No such concreteness exists for programs.
         | 
         | When we make a product, we really have no idea what the
         | landscape of computing will look like in the future. Even the
         | projects that are less than five years old that I've worked on
         | have had so much grafted onto them that I barely recognize what
         | I had originally wrote for it. My hunch is that the email
         | system is basically a "legacy app" that had more and more
         | jammed into it as time went on. The prudent thing to do would
         | have been to go with a new provider, but that is extremely
         | expensive compared to jamming new features like that script
         | into it.
         | 
         | In this scenario, how would a developer be held accountable?
         | Would telling a judge "I really didn't want to write this code
         | but the client demanded these changes" be a viable defense?
        
           | namibj wrote:
           | If the dev has that in writing, sure.
        
         | authed wrote:
         | It's called job security... imagine if anything else was built
         | like modern software...
        
       | nanis wrote:
       | I guess we must disable view-source in all browsers now! Welcome
       | back to the 70s where you could only use a phone made by AT&T and
       | got to rent it at $10/month.
        
         | addingnumbers wrote:
         | I worked in DSL support for one of the baby bells back in 2002
         | and talked to a customer who had a line item in her bill for
         | telephone rental that went back as far as the billing system
         | could show me. It jumped out at me since I'd seen thousands of
         | bill plans and never saw that line item before.
         | 
         | She said she had the phone installed on the kitchen wall around
         | the time her grandson was born. He was 27. I told her she could
         | replace it for less than 20 bucks and she said no thank you she
         | liked this phone very much.
         | 
         | She wasn't calling about the bill, she just wanted to get her
         | e-mail working.
         | 
         | She spent upwards of $3,000 on that phone in rental fees alone.
         | She might be still paying it today for all I know.
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | Chrome is actually adding a feature that lets school admins
         | disable view source because school test pages had the answers
         | in the source.
        
           | karlding wrote:
           | Enterprise-level Chromium removes view-source to prevent
           | students from cheating [0].
           | 
           | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29211611
        
           | speedgoose wrote:
           | Can you still write something like
           | javascript:alert(document.body.parentNode.innerHTML) in the
           | address bar and press enter?
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | document.documentElement.innerHTML might be better than
             | document.body.parentNode.innerHTML. The latter fails if
             | there is no body element, e.g. when the page is an SVG
             | document.
             | 
             | If you want a closer approximation of the full source,
             | outerHTML might also be better.
             | 
             | I've also seen "new
             | XMLSerializer().serializeToString(document)" suggested.
             | That seems to give the most complete source, but I've also
             | read that it might have problems with things that need
             | escaping. I have no experience with that approach because
             | for what I needed the first thing I found when Googling,
             | document.documentElement.innerHTML, gave me what I needed.
             | 
             | One more thing to consider. All of the above I'd expect
             | give you source that would produce the currently displayed
             | page including any modifications that were made after
             | loading by JavaScript (which is probably what you'd want
             | for cheating on a test so is fine). I'm not sure that is
             | the same as what "view source" gives--does it give the
             | current page or the page as it came over the wire?
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Previous ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Email from FBI Looks Odd_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29208276 - Nov 2021 (150
       | comments)
        
       | Jerrrry wrote:
       | Good sports, well played.
        
       | everybodyknows wrote:
       | > Members of the RaidForums hacking community have a long
       | standing feud with Troia
       | 
       | Anyone know what the beef is? Do they think he's incompetent?
        
         | PeterisP wrote:
         | Not only he identified some of them to the authorities, he also
         | literally wrote a book on it (https://www.amazon.com/OSINT-
         | Toolkit-Intelligence-Gathering-...), exposing them and the
         | methods to the general public.
        
         | NaughtyShiba wrote:
         | He's cybersecurity expert/researcher, and has been trying to
         | identify TDO for a long time now.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29208276
       | 
       | EDIT: All right, "Dupe" might be the wrong word; "Related to the
       | same newsworthy event" might be better.
        
         | sieabahlpark wrote:
         | Reddit isn't a primary source?
        
         | foxbarrington wrote:
         | I wouldn't classify this as a dupe. This is much clearer about
         | what happened and how than the scattered comments in the reddit
         | threads.
        
           | barbecue_sauce wrote:
           | Yeah, this is an update if anything.
        
         | LilBytes wrote:
         | Your link is to some one reporting the phishing email where it
         | wasn't known to be phishing at that time. This link is to an
         | acknowledgement from Krebs and the FBI that it is indeed, a
         | phishing email.
         | 
         | Not dupes.
        
       | xpressvideoz wrote:
       | This is so funny. I've seen websites that leak one-time code
       | through client code so the verification could be automated, but
       | this is another level. Generating a code client-side _and_
       | allowing the client to decide what the email content could be!
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | I have used the LEEP portal. Honestly - people are making a
         | huge deal about this, but the verification code could be
         | completely removed and it wouldn't matter. You can start the
         | same process by just emailing the helpdesk.
        
         | eloisius wrote:
         | It makes me chuckle to think of the contractor's thought
         | process on how you implement email verification. How could you
         | not even Google something so simple before you reinvented it
         | yourself in the worst way?
        
           | kymaz wrote:
           | It takes time to google things, and the engineer is paid to
           | write code not google stuff.
        
             | carlmr wrote:
             | A department manager at a previous job once blocked
             | stackoverflow. It went about as well as you'd expect and he
             | unlocked it two weeks later.
        
           | alx__ wrote:
           | Probably was written before google came out ;)
        
       | supercucumber wrote:
       | mildly ironic that the FBI employs so many elite hackers but can
       | barely keep its own properties safe
        
         | LogonType10 wrote:
         | I don't buy it when news hits that the FBI took down some
         | ransomware gang or seized bitcoin or what have you. I've never
         | heard of a single former FBI hacker, I don't know of anyone who
         | would want to work for them (who wouldn't pick another agency
         | first). Their pay is terrible and they disqualify almost
         | everyone who has the background of a hacker. They must have
         | some other agency do the deed and then they take the credit out
         | of legal necessity.
        
           | Oddskar wrote:
           | I think this quite accurately explains it:
           | https://xkcd.com/538/
           | 
           | Not saying the method is violence per se, but rather that
           | there are a lot of alternatives to finding vulnerabilities
           | and backdoors.
        
       | tlogan wrote:
       | Christopher Wray (FBI director) needs to resign. We live in age
       | where internet is very very critical and this could cause huge
       | damage.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | I think there are a lot of reasons he should resign, but this
         | isn't one of them.
        
         | _jal wrote:
         | Right, right.
         | 
         | Also, the next zero day in Windows means Nadella should be
         | tossed out of Redmond. It is very critical, no?
        
           | turminal wrote:
           | I don't agree with the GP's call for resignation but this is
           | way worse incompetence wise than an average windows zero day.
        
           | earleybird wrote:
           | Zero day is the wrong analogy - perhaps: "The next time
           | microsoft.com dns expires and is renewed by a good samaritan"
           | 
           | And, yes, it would be time for some senior folks to reflect
           | on their continued helmsmanship.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | basicplus2 wrote:
       | Plausable deniability for any email FBI sends out?
        
       | junon wrote:
       | I suppose it could have been worse. I appreciate that they made
       | the emails _very clearly_ fake. The fact it passed DKIM checks
       | was definitely alarming, though. A lot of people thought there
       | was a flaw in DKIM somehow, but unsurprisingly it 's a flaw with
       | the FBI's site.
       | 
       | All in good fun, I suppose.
        
         | s5300 wrote:
         | I'll never forgive the Twitter large accounts hacker for not
         | choosing literally anything funny & instead tweeting a dumb
         | "gibs me Bitcoin"
         | 
         | Could've been the funniest thing the internet had seen in
         | years, & will likely not happen at that scale again for quite
         | some time.
        
           | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
           | I'm surprised that the FBI hacker didn't use it for some for-
           | profit fraud scheme.
        
             | petre wrote:
             | Maybe he doesn't want to be also charged with fraud when
             | they catch him.
        
               | yourad_io wrote:
               | One crime at a time
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | A ton of people don't ever rotate their DKIM keys. If you're
         | not using email tooling that handles it automatically on a
         | regular basis it's an easy thing to do since it doesn't expire
         | like an SSL cert.
         | 
         | Anybody gets their hands on the private key, ex employee,
         | compromised via hack, etc then everything will sail through.
        
           | windexh8er wrote:
           | You may enjoy this (I believe it was on HN last year): "DKIM:
           | Show Your Privates" [0].
           | 
           | [0] https://rya.nc/dkim-privates.html
        
             | brightball wrote:
             | I remember it! Solid points all around.
        
         | exikyut wrote:
         | Well if you're going to wake up Deus Ex Machina _and_ make it
         | look stupid, it 's probably your survival instincts suggesting
         | you add just a dash of "task failed successfully" lest you find
         | out what happens if you're successful, or worse, _very_
         | successful.
         | 
         | Letterhead and perfect graphics and _absolutely perfect_ text
         | and whatnot? You could send mail literally anywhere. Media.
         | White House. Obscure government... stuff /facilities.
         | International contacts...? FVEY? Infinite rabbithole much. SO
         | MANY social engineering possibilities, like this is absolutely
         | mad.
         | 
         | And then... and then you're on the run for the rest of your
         | life - not only against someone who can have you added to _all_
         | the nonexistent facial recognition databases, but against
         | unimpressed individuals who will specially go out of their way
         | to find you regardless of where you are.
         | 
         | Alternatively, you can pop the balloon in a way that's very
         | obviously stupid, make absolutely no demonstrative points about
         | social engineering in the process, _and leverage everyone 's
         | collective panic attack to ensure there's a widespread search
         | for the sending email address_ that would be much more far-
         | reaching than a news article ever would.
         | 
         | Genius.
        
           | someotherperson wrote:
           | > And then... and then you're on the run for the rest of your
           | life
           | 
           | US government entities, like any other entity, aren't
           | superhuman. Taking basic steps to protect and anonymise
           | yourself would be sufficient.
        
             | legulere wrote:
             | They have a lot of resources though and it's very hard to
             | not leave any trace behind.
        
               | someotherperson wrote:
               | If it was that easy they wouldn't be trying to push
               | backdoors in companies, going as far as leveraging Five
               | Eyes nations to legislate backdoors and carry out
               | surveillance on their behalf, and eventually blaming
               | "Russia" for every attack based on trivial IP
               | geolocation.
               | 
               | Somehow every single one of the US' enemies manages to
               | get around it -- from OBL through to the entire ISIS
               | network.
               | 
               | The reality is that the FBI can't beat maths and has no
               | leverage over services from foreign companies. i.e, a
               | Russian VPN on a clean VM is probably enough to skirt the
               | whole of the FBI.
               | 
               | US digital intelligence is, for all intents and purposes,
               | a paper tiger in 2021. The whole thing is a farce to give
               | the appearance of sophistication to act as a deterrent.
        
               | iotku wrote:
               | >If it was that easy they wouldn't be trying to push
               | backdoors in companies, going as far as leveraging Five
               | Eyes nations to legislate backdoors and carry out
               | surveillance on their behalf,
               | 
               | Just because this would be easier for them to have
               | official backdoors doesn't mean they can't ever do
               | anything given enough interest and funding behind it.
               | 
               | >eventually blaming "Russia" for every attack based on
               | trivial IP geolocation
               | 
               | There's plenty of political reasons to state that (even
               | if they were to know otherwise) and if they actually do
               | have more accurate information on a different entity it
               | could avoid showing their hand if they just attribute it
               | incorrectly.
               | 
               | >The reality is that the FBI can't beat maths and has no
               | leverage over services from foreign companies. i.e, a
               | Russian VPN on a clean VM is probably enough to skirt the
               | whole of the FBI.
               | 
               | Probably can't beat math, but if the FBI is running the
               | supposed "Russian VPN" that gives them lots of
               | information. You only have to make one mistake and you
               | could potentially out yourself. (Assuming you don't have
               | further layers to fall back on)
               | 
               | >US digital intelligence is, for all intents and
               | purposes, a paper tiger in 2021. The whole thing is a
               | farce to give the appearance of sophistication to act as
               | a deterrent.
               | 
               | Are you willing to bet your life that this is the case?
        
               | someotherperson wrote:
               | > Just because this would be easier for them to have
               | official backdoors doesn't mean they can't ever do
               | anything given enough interest and funding behind it.
               | 
               | Considering there are random "mom and pop" scam agencies
               | across South Asia and the Caribbean stealing billions of
               | dollars from Americans annually while posing as the FBI
               | and IRS and nothing whatsoever happens to them I'd wager
               | that it's quite unlikely the FBI has the ability to do
               | much of anything regardless of interest and funding.
               | 
               | > There's plenty of political reasons to state that (even
               | if they were to know otherwise) and if they actually do
               | have more accurate information on a different entity it
               | could avoid showing their hand if they just attribute it
               | incorrectly.
               | 
               | This is suggesting there is a 4D chess move at play,
               | which is a straying a bit too far for me. The only other
               | possibility here is if [Russia, China, NK, Iran] know the
               | US is not able or willing to enforce a deterrence and
               | they don't even bother hiding.
               | 
               | > but if the FBI is running the supposed "Russian VPN"
               | that gives them lots of information
               | 
               | That's extremely unlikely to the point where if there was
               | a complex covert operation like this they wouldn't burn
               | exposing it on outing an independent malicious actor.
               | 
               | > Are you willing to bet your life that this is the case?
               | 
               | There are entire groups that have literally bet their
               | lives on this and are still very much alive. If the US
               | government was as sophisticated as you're suggesting, I
               | don't think they'd still be driving patrols around the
               | levantine desert trying to find ISIS members or have a
               | giant fentanyl issue plaguing the country.
               | 
               | I really can't make sense of the idea that the US has all
               | this power at their disposal but completely refuses to
               | use it against actual organised groups targeting the US
               | and Americans, but will somehow put all their cards on
               | the table when Johnny from Idaho exploits a mail server.
        
             | exikyut wrote:
             | But what can close the loop there is a patriotic sense of
             | _not on my lawn_ , for want of a better way to put it.
             | "Vendetta" almost seems too strong a word, but maybe in
             | some situations it wouldn't be. Basically the kind of
             | mindset that can drive long-term focus/fixation. _That 's_
             | scary, tbh.
        
         | FDSGSG wrote:
         | >A lot of people thought there was a flaw in DKIM somehow
         | 
         | [Citation needed]
        
           | gjs278 wrote:
           | indeed. literally nobody said this
        
       | Threeve303 wrote:
       | Using a system designed to warn of a cyberattack as part of your
       | actual attack. Hopefully the Department of Redundancy Department
       | does a full security review.
        
       | fourthark wrote:
       | > I am contacting you today because we located a botnet being
       | hosted on your forehead.
       | 
       | Brutal.
        
       | globalise83 wrote:
       | "when you requested the confirmation code [it] was generated
       | client-side, then sent to you via a POST Request"
       | 
       | That is shocking. What must the internal culture be like for such
       | an idea to even be a possibility?
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | An important highlight in this article is the Internet Explorer
         | requirement: The site is _old_.
         | 
         | The security focused mindset we have today in web development
         | just wasn't developed to that level whenever this thing was
         | written. It's kinda a case in point for replacing websites
         | entirely from time to time.
        
         | rglover wrote:
         | It's the government.
        
           | tamaharbor wrote:
           | Lowest bidder.
        
             | hellbannedguy wrote:
             | That has changed a tiny bit.
             | 
             | They are suppose to have some experience too, but I imagine
             | that is faked too.
             | 
             | I heard things changed a bit when those two guys from Miami
             | got in trouble forging papers.
             | 
             | (I have nothing wrong with the lowest price on most
             | contracts. Guys with no trail of experience should be able
             | to compete with the big guys. Contracts like software
             | development should be vetted more than price though.)
        
             | silexia wrote:
             | Not low bidder, most politically connected.
             | 
             | I have been trying to get US government contracts for years
             | through my company, including offering $0, $1 and other
             | guaranteed low price bids to try to get the work. We exceed
             | every requirement in the RFPs. We are recognized as the
             | best in the nation in our service area and have 200+ full
             | time employees. Crickets.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | I spent two weeks or so working at a government contractor. I
         | put my two week notice in almost as soon as I'd started, and I
         | permanently swore off the industry.
         | 
         | There were some genuinely good, smart people working there, but
         | the culture was such that I'd be very surprised if they shipped
         | a working product in 5 years time. If they did ship it, it
         | would be an awful thing to behold.
         | 
         | I don't know how to fix this issue. But from what I've seen and
         | heard, the best minds (other than the rare altruist) stay in
         | the private sector. It pays better, and there's just so much
         | less BS to deal with.
        
           | Oddskar wrote:
           | Having worked in government (although not in US), top fixes
           | for me would be:
           | 
           | * Make it easier to fire incompetent people. A job that's in
           | the service of the people should not be a cozy "I'm now set
           | for life" type of gig.
           | 
           | * Pay semi-market rates.
           | 
           | * Stop going for the lowest bidder for contractors.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Why semi market rates? The whole problem is politicians win
             | elections by promising low taxes and less spending, so the
             | government pays less, and to offset the lower pay, they
             | compensate by not firing people. Inevitably, this will
             | attract an undesirable amount of people who want to coast,
             | with no ability to get rid of them.
        
               | Oddskar wrote:
               | > Inevitably, this will attract an undesirable amount of
               | people who want to coast, with no ability to get rid of
               | them.
               | 
               | Yes, my point exactly. I think it's cheaper to pay people
               | a reasonable salary and less job security. Otherwise it
               | just ends up being a lot of dead weight throughout the
               | organization. This dead weight leads to low productivity,
               | which in turn e.g. leads the management to bring on
               | expensive consultants to try and fix it.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | My point was that you need to pay market rates, not semi
               | market rates for that. The trade off of compensation for
               | job security should not be occurring.
        
               | Oddskar wrote:
               | Aha, sure. My intention with "semi" was to indicate that
               | it would still not be anywhere near FAANG-levels; but
               | rather closer to a median "good" salary.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | If it needs to be FAANG level to attract the workers you
               | need, then it needs to be FAANG level. I do not see why
               | there would be any arbitrary limit.
               | 
               | I remember when healthcare.gov was launched and the
               | clusterfuck it was, and then a much of FAANG level
               | employees had to quickly go and clean it up as charity.
        
               | bluedino wrote:
               | Low wages make for more bribeable employees
               | 
               | Same reasons judges are paid a lot
        
             | bluedino wrote:
             | US municipal is plagued by:
             | 
             | Private sector unions (making them impossible to fire)
             | 
             | Nepotism
             | 
             | Layers and layers of bureaucracy
        
               | Oddskar wrote:
               | That's not something unique to the US, I saw the exact
               | same thing across the pond.
        
           | orangepurple wrote:
           | I know another government contractor whose idea of client
           | responsiveness is to download the entire server database to
           | the client browser on initial load
        
             | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
             | For a sufficiently small database (that doesn't require
             | more granular access control), that seems to be the right
             | choice. A 1 MB initial load is cheap nowadays.
        
               | unclebucknasty wrote:
               | Are we using the term "database" loosely here to mean
               | some limited subset of data? Because I think of the term
               | as referring to an app's primary datastore, and I can't
               | recall a single meaningful modern app I've seen for which
               | the database is anywhere close to that small.
        
               | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
               | Think of small, in-house applications managing an
               | inventory of a couple hundred to a couple thousand items.
               | 
               | "Hard discount" stores like Aldi are supposed to have
               | <1500 SKUs, for example.
        
               | unclebucknasty wrote:
               | Got it. Thanks for clarifying. Thought there might be
               | some kind of clever sharding or tooling I was missing.
        
             | couchand wrote:
             | That's completely the right strategy for the scale most web
             | apps operate at.
        
               | thakoppno wrote:
               | How much more expensive is 100KB of JSON compared to last
               | year?
        
               | Oddskar wrote:
               | Until someone doesn't think twice and adds some column to
               | the DB that contains PII.
        
               | owl57 wrote:
               | Moreover, most mobile apps, web or native, could suck A
               | LOT less if they did just that, load all the data at
               | start. I have taken that to the extreme of serving all
               | the code and data in one file. Definitely will do that
               | again if I ever make another app with similar and fairly
               | common constraints. Never waiting for unstable network
               | and zero bugs with some part of HTML/CSS/JS/data missing
               | or out of sync is pure joy.
        
               | foota wrote:
               | This works great until you have something that doesn't
               | fit, and it can block new features as a result of that.
               | 
               | I worked on an application a number of years ago where it
               | was trying to load all the comments and details about an
               | internal bug tracker into memory. It must have worked
               | fine at first, but after time it was a POS.
        
               | altfredd wrote:
               | There is no "one size fits all" solution.
               | 
               | If the database fits onto client hard drive and the
               | modifications are rare, preloading everything is almost
               | always better.
               | 
               | If you have a dynamically changing system such as bug
               | tracker, it is still possible to go fully local, but that
               | would require considerable cooperation from server side.
               | When the back-end does not have a fast, efficient API for
               | sending diffs, you may get stuck waiting for it to be
               | implemented. But that's a purely organizational problem.
               | 
               | Of course, all of above applies to actually saving data
               | to permanent storage. Storing everything in memory is a
               | sin by itself.
        
           | hdhdhsjsbdh wrote:
           | I made it a few years on the gov side of this equation and
           | had to quit. Like you say, there are certainly lots of bright
           | people...but just as many (if not more) lazy and willfully
           | ignorant people punching the clock and keeping the money
           | faucet turned on regardless of the quality of output, if only
           | to pad their performance reviews (executed x dollars managing
           | project of y size) and keep their budgets from being cut.
           | This attitude is insidious too, as I found myself becoming
           | guilty of the same apathy and laziness around the time I
           | decided to break free and throw myself back into more
           | challenging and meaningful work.
        
           | stonogo wrote:
           | The single largest employer in North America, responsible for
           | untold millions of jobs both direct-federal and government
           | contracting, and you pegged the culture, nationwide, inter-
           | agency, on day one. Pretty amazing insight from not much
           | data. Perhaps you'd like to generalize in a more targeted
           | manner?
        
         | technion wrote:
         | A comment elsewhere is that the site was made with the 'IBM
         | Form Experience', and that this issue is possibly just a part
         | of how that product works.
         | 
         | In which case I could totally see how it's part of the culture,
         | having worked in orgs like this:
         | 
         | - A person brings up this concern
         | 
         | - "Uh sweetie, I think IBM wouldn't make a mistake like that"
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Being able to scapegoat IBM of all companies would just show
           | how far people in the org are out of the loop.
        
         | coldcode wrote:
         | There are a lot of highly terrible government contracting
         | agencies out there who charge enormous fees and who knows who
         | actually does the work given the likelihood no one even
         | validates any of the work. Suck our taxpayer money out of the
         | system and leave trash in the wake.
         | 
         | You'd think an agency as important as the FBI would verify who
         | is working on their systems, but probably no one did.
        
           | topspin wrote:
           | > You'd think an agency as important as the FBI would verify
           | who is working on their systems
           | 
           | Why?
           | 
           | The upper echelons of these federal law enforcement and
           | intelligence agencies are universally political animals with
           | names suffixed by III and IV that instinctually perceive
           | anything as even vaguely technical as far beneath them. The
           | only time something like the security of a network becomes a
           | priority for these people is when it causes them
           | embarrassment. At all other times the operation of these
           | systems is a budget item that gets farmed out according to
           | the prevailing political prerogatives of the day; actual
           | competence being well down on the list of priorities.
        
           | neartheplain wrote:
           | This wouldn't be the first time the FBI mismanaged software
           | contractors: https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-
           | study/fbi-virtual...
           | 
           | Or the second: https://www.newsweek.com/fbis-expensive-
           | sentinel-computer-sy...
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | How incredibly stupid. A twelve year old who spent two seconds
         | thinking about what confirmation codes are for would realize
         | the error of generating them in the browser. What do they think
         | conf codes do? Just be there for show? Don't programmers have
         | to pass some kind of minimal literacy test to work for the
         | government?
        
           | slavboj wrote:
           | "Just be there for show?" Yes. In the same way that many law
           | enforcement organizations (not so much the FBI, but
           | definitely US Marshals Service) will carry around badges and
           | take extreme umbrage at anyone actually attempting to confirm
           | their identity.
        
         | ma2rten wrote:
         | What does this actually mean? Why does it need to be sent to
         | you (presumably referring to the client) when it's generated
         | client side.
        
           | navels wrote:
           | Agree this wording is confusing, but from the article I think
           | we can infer that the client makes s POST request to the
           | backend which sends the email.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | L-four wrote:
         | From the government work I've done. The most important thing is
         | the paperwork and paper-trail, everything else is secondary.
        
       | 3np wrote:
       | > "Members of the RaidForums hacking community have a long
       | standing feud with Troia, and commonly deface websites and
       | perform minor hacks where they blame it on the security
       | researcher," Ionut Illascu wrote for BleepingComputer.
       | 
       | I appreciate that krebs give an explicit source to the claim - it
       | shows journalistic integrity.
        
         | seanalltogether wrote:
         | Ironically, by targeting this guy, they give him more clout,
         | and with more clout comes more work opportunities and potential
         | resources to identify these groups.
        
       | NaughtyShiba wrote:
       | I refuse to believe this. How in anyone's mind this idea (email
       | sending part on FBI site) was ok?
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-14 23:02 UTC)