[HN Gopher] Intermittent fasting prompts anti-inflammatory response
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Intermittent fasting prompts anti-inflammatory response
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 174 points
       Date   : 2021-11-13 15:22 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (academic.oup.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (academic.oup.com)
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | I accidentally did intermittent fasting as a teenager for years.
       | I just didn't have breakfast, had lunch and dinner and oddly
       | enough it matched the requirements to be considered IF.
       | 
       | One day I got interested in IF, looked up the rules and found out
       | I was already on it.
       | 
       | I can't say whether it did anything but it definitely made it
       | hard to consume enough calories, so despite training a lot and
       | despite eating a lot at lunch and dinner, I've always been
       | skinny.
       | 
       | I assume IF could be a good choice for someone who's overweight
       | and barely training or not training at all.
       | 
       | I was training bodyweight and gymnastic at the time, making
       | significant progress in terms of strength - despite that, I saw
       | very little muscle building. I suppose being that lean lowered my
       | testosterone production resulting in little gains.
       | 
       | I had the brilliant idea of even trying going vegetarian, vegan
       | for a while, shifting to a source of proteins which is not as
       | complete and not as well absorbed as proteins coming from animal
       | sources.
       | 
       | After 20 years of reading on the subject and looking at what
       | studies are saying nowadays, if I could go back through my
       | teenage years I would eat close to paleo, 6 times per day and
       | lift weights.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | I accidentally started IF after being annoyed at my lack of
       | mental alertness after lunch and breakfast.
       | 
       | I found that one coffee for breakfast, lots of water/herbal tea
       | throughout the day, and then eating a huge dinner and whatever I
       | want between 5-9 works for me. It seems I can consume over 2k
       | calories in those 4 hours.
        
       | oDot wrote:
       | For a personal anecdote, IF was the most impactful change I did
       | nutrition wise, and I am currently midway testing diets from
       | carnivore to vegan.
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | Could you say more about your IF regimen? And what sort of
         | impacts did you notice?
        
           | oDot wrote:
           | Improved skin, clearer mind, less fatigue. I was doing 14:10
           | after years of irregular eating, then settled on 16:8 which
           | also improved the above.
           | 
           | I tried 23:1 for a week but I could not eat enough in that
           | one hour.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | > I tried 23:1 for a week but I could not eat enough in
             | that one hour.
             | 
             | That gives me a stomach ache just thinking about it. 2000C
             | in a sitting is a _lot_ , even with relatively high calorie
             | food choices.
        
           | drodil wrote:
           | I have done IF for almost 2 years now. Some personal
           | experiences from my blog if interested:
           | https://link.medium.com/ju1cOdlG9kb
        
         | scruple wrote:
         | How long have you been on an IF style diet? I "ran" it for
         | about 3 and a half years before moving on.
         | 
         | I'm curious to know what long term success looks like for
         | people on an IF diet. I did get my weight under control on IF
         | but when it came time to bulk or cut, in accordance with my
         | strength and conditioning training, it simply wasn't working.
        
           | oDot wrote:
           | Since mid-2017. I agree it is not enough to gain muscle, but
           | it also doesn't seem to hinder that for me.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | For those who are upbeat about IF: some simple questions:
       | 
       | 1. Does coffee/tea count as a "meal"? I can't get through the day
       | without a couple of cups of coffee and tea.
       | 
       | 2. This study mentioned a 24-hour water-only fast, not the IF
       | that most commenters are talking about in this post. Thoughts on
       | that?
       | 
       | 3. I've been thinking of going on the "Phil Mickelson" diet:
       | https://golf.com/instruction/fitness/phil-mickelson-age-defy...
       | Any thoughts on that?
        
         | theodorewiles wrote:
         | I SLAMMED coffee the first few weeks and would also drink like
         | a gallon of water a day. Helped a lot. I think the key is to
         | choose the schedule that works for you.
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | I regularly do IF and I drink black coffee in the morning while
         | I'm fasting. I try to time it so even that is at the tail-end
         | of an 18 hours fast.
        
         | tomp wrote:
         | 1. no. a "meal" could be sugar or cream in the coffee though.
         | zero-calorie drinks don't count as a meal
         | 
         | some people "cheat" by considering cream-only coffee acceptable
         | as well (it's keto/zero-carb so might not raise blood sugar
         | levels) - see e.g. "bulletproof coffee" by Dave Asprey (NOT
         | ENDORSING ANYTHING ELSE BY THIS SCAM ARTIST)
        
       | wpietri wrote:
       | Ooh, interesting. This particular study is with full-day fasts
       | 1-2 times per week. I see that insulin resistance improvement was
       | also seen with eTRF (early time-restricted feeding, where one
       | doesn't eat after, say, 2 pm).
       | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6627766/
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | It was a very weird transition, as a well-off American, from
       | going to never, ever actually feeling _real hunger_ at any point
       | in any of my normal days (our workplaces, transit hubs, homes,
       | lifestyles, and app landscape are all designed to deliver/provide
       | high caloric density food, in extreme abundance, at all times and
       | places, from snacks to full meals), to regularly/often being
       | _actually hungry_ for some /all of most days.
       | 
       | It's done wonders for my well-being - anecdotally, of course.
       | 
       | It turns out we don't actually _need_ to never be hungry; our
       | society just pushes us to assume that even the tiniest pang of
       | hunger is a negative health issue that is to be instantly
       | eradicated. It 's actually fine as long as you're not skinny or
       | otherwise malnourished.
       | 
       | It's ok to fast, and to hear your body demanding sustenance and
       | just say "no, maybe tomorrow" - doubly so if you're 10kg+
       | overweight like I have been (in my case, 20-40kg) my entire adult
       | life.
        
         | novok wrote:
         | How do you deal with distracting hunger? I try ignoring it and
         | then find myself subconciously going to the fridge every 10
         | minutes. And I'm not doing somewhat abnormal things like not
         | eating for 20+ hours.
        
           | vishnugupta wrote:
           | I keep a glass of water on my desk and keep slowly sipping
           | it, and refill when it runs out. It's helped me significantly
           | to reduce cravings.
        
         | johnyzee wrote:
         | > society just pushes us to assume that even the tiniest pang
         | of hunger is a negative health issue
         | 
         | This is the mistake. In fact, the hunger pangs and light
         | headedness, nausea, etc. are the result of low blood sugar.
         | This can be a dangerous condition, but our body is equipped to
         | deal with that situation - it can create sufficient energy from
         | stored energy (fat and glycogen) - and will do so if we let it.
         | But most people have conditioned their bodies for a steady
         | supply of easy energy, and this makes the body increasingly
         | less willing to go to the stores for energy (we are at a
         | hormonal imbalance with excessive insulin prevalence which
         | works to lock up fat stores and crave quick increases in blood
         | sugar).
         | 
         | This condition can be gradually fixed with intermittent
         | fasting, which gives the body time to burn off the blood sugar
         | spike, and concomitant insulin, and allow the process of fat
         | burning to pick up, before you start feeding again.
         | 
         | The effect of the fasting can be enhanced by eating fewer
         | carbohydrates (which are the main trigger for blood sugar and
         | insulin), which is the principle behind the keto diet.
        
         | freediver wrote:
         | You may be onto something here. I never thought about this
         | effect of IF. The self-control aspect of overcoming hunger, or
         | not just eating when you needn't to.
        
           | scruple wrote:
           | This self-control aspect also works in other diets, too, of
           | course. It's why I prefer cheat days over cheat meals in my
           | diet. I've found that keeping myself consistent with my
           | eating, and make deliberate decisions, for 6 days straight
           | leads to much better results than letting my diet slip
           | occasionally through out the week and excusing it by
           | convincing myself it's a "cheat meal."
        
         | nicoburns wrote:
         | > It turns out we don't actually need to never be hungry; our
         | society just pushes us to assume that even the tiniest pang of
         | hunger is a negative health issue that is to be instantly
         | eradicated.
         | 
         | Huh, is that really something you feel like your society
         | teaches you? In my upbringing (UK), snacking was very much
         | discouraged (you won't eat your dinner) and although eating
         | meals was encouraged, going without one was never seen as a
         | health issue and would be seen as preferable to giving me other
         | food if I didn't like what had been cooked for me.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Yes, that's what I got. Fast food everywhere, snacks
           | constantly available, cookies and cakes in break rooms,
           | vending machines, junk food, snack bars in offices, coffee
           | milkshakes, kiosks in airports... everywhere you look in the
           | USA there are people trying to sell you stuff to spike your
           | blood sugar between meals. As opposed to Europe, there are
           | entire aisles in the grocery stores here that are stocked
           | solely with non-meal foods. This extends even to drugstores!
           | CVS and Walgreens have a seasonal candy aisle!
           | 
           | I eat very low carb (I target <10g per day, with 20-30g as a
           | hard limit) and it's sort of freaky how prevalent it is,
           | because despite a million food options in some circumstances,
           | precisely 0 of them are without carbs. I've been in airports
           | when I haven't eaten for 18-24h with multiple places vending
           | food and there has been approximately nothing available that
           | would fit my diet.
        
           | johnyzee wrote:
           | Definitely. Just go look for the official line on how to eat
           | for losing weight. They actually recommend lots of small
           | meals as often as possible. It's ridiculuous.
        
       | nailer wrote:
       | There's also a 500% spike in HGH after 48h according to Dr Ekberg
        
         | DrammBA wrote:
         | Could you provide a source? I tried googling it but I'm getting
         | a lot of obviously click bait and misleading articles/videos.
        
           | johnyzee wrote:
           | It is well established that fasting increases the level of
           | growth hormone, quite significantly too. It's the leptin
           | trigger. Just google effect of fasting on growth hormone.
           | 
           | I think the OP is talking about Steen Ekberg the keto
           | youtuber. His stuff is legit and well sourced, but
           | unfortunately marketed to look like facebook meme videos.
        
       | jasonhansel wrote:
       | That...isn't what the study says, I think. In fact, it says that
       | the level of hsCRP--a marker of inflammation--actually
       | _increased_ in the subjects who undertook intermittent fasting,
       | though the difference from the control group (1.02 +- 2.73 vs.
       | -0.25 +- 5.66) was far from statistically significant (p = 0.23,
       | see Table 3). That 's the only part of the study that even
       | mentions inflammation.
        
         | ByThyGrace wrote:
         | Also, this isn't IF as popularly understood. IF usually means
         | uninterrupted water-only fast for a certain part of the day,
         | e.g. 18:00-10:00.
         | 
         | The paper is about "low frequency" IF, which in this case means
         | a 24h water only fast, twice a week for a full month, then only
         | once a week for the rest of the trial.
        
           | phonypc wrote:
           | FWIW, this isn't atypical. IF in a scientific study pretty
           | much always means some form of 24h+ fast. The more common
           | practice of eating in a time window is usually "time-
           | restricted eating/feeding."
        
         | jasonhansel wrote:
         | Also worth noting that the sample (as a whole) was 96% white,
         | 91% non-Hispanic, and 33% male.
         | 
         | Granted, the study was performed in SLC, but these numbers
         | suggest that this is not even a particularly representative
         | sample of SLC, much less of the nation as a whole.
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | Can somebody comment the effects size of improvements
         | 
         | HOMA-IR (-0.75 +- 0.79 vs. -0.10 +- 1.06; P = 0.004) and
         | 
         | MSS (-0.34 +- 4.72 vs. 0.31 +- 1.98, P = 0.006).
         | 
         | Without knowing the normal range it's impossible to say how big
         | change 0.75 (HOMA-IR) or -0.34 (MSS) are. The article says
         | significant, but how much that is.
        
       | hartator wrote:
       | Does that mean a 24h fast but frequent is enough to trigger DNA
       | repair mechanism? My understanding so far was you needed at least
       | a 72h fast.
        
         | dvt wrote:
         | > needed at least a 72h fast
         | 
         | I think you're thinking of ketosis, which is ~72hrs. You can
         | also verify entering ketosis by the smell & color of your
         | urine. We're not 100% sure how ketosis relates to cellular
         | autophagy.
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | Autophagy? It's still unknown but many believe that happens
         | around 48 - 72 hour mark.
        
         | anonuser123456 wrote:
         | I haven't read enough on the subject, but Peter Attia has
         | discussed this on a few podcasts. His general view is that no
         | one knows; we simply don't have the biomarkers or lab tests to
         | even run good experiments yet.
        
       | boplicity wrote:
       | If you want to have an "anti-inflammatory" response, then try to
       | maximize your fiber intake from a wide variety of plants.
       | 
       | This will increase the quality of your microbiome -- which in
       | turn, will produce substances that are anti-inflammatory.
        
         | johnyzee wrote:
         | _" All disease begins in the gut"_ -- Hippocrates
         | 
         | It seems we just keep discovering more effects of the
         | microbiome on health. I heard about this anti-inflammation
         | effect just yesterday. I think it was explained as gram
         | negative bacteria overgrowth in the gut (due to a bad bacterial
         | balance). Those bacteria have a hard 'shell' that triggers a
         | potent immune response (with inflammation) when present in the
         | blood stream, which they enter from the small intestine.
         | 
         | So I think your advice to maximize fiber intake is sound. This
         | feeds gut bacteria (unlike most other food which is broken down
         | before reaching the small intestine). Another intervention
         | would be fermented foods.
        
       | rewgs wrote:
       | Wondering if anyone is in a situation similar to mine (probably
       | not but it's worth a try):
       | 
       | Earlier this year I developed about 30 food allergies (IgE-
       | mediated; I'm using the term "allergy" accurately, not in the
       | fuzzy way we colloquially use it to refer to intolerances, etc,
       | which are entirely different, mechanism- and prognosis-wise).
       | This has absolutely decimated my ability to eat out at
       | restaurants (I literally can't eat anything I don't prepare
       | myself). Logistically it just sucks. It'll be evening after work
       | and someone on the other side of town says "come hang out." I'd
       | love to, but I'll have to drive home one direction, eat, then
       | drive twice as far the other direction. With traffic it'll be 9pm
       | before I can leave, so...yeah, not happening. It's destroyed my
       | social life. My allergies have also affected things that are
       | "quick" or "travel" foods, so basically I always need to heat
       | stuff up. God it sucks.
       | 
       | Naturally, I've arrived at the thought of training myself to
       | "officially" work IF into my life. Unofficially, I do it all the
       | time by way of just...having to go somewhere unexpectedly or
       | staying somewhere longer than I thought, and I don't have any
       | food. About 50% of the time I feel fine and can power through,
       | the other 50% I feel faint and hangry. Can't figure out why.
       | 
       | The other side of this coin, though, is that I'm trying to build
       | muscle mass. Nuff said.
       | 
       | Anyone find a way to satisfy all these competing interests
       | successfully?
        
       | shoto_io wrote:
       | I am a big IF fan. Specifically, I try to do it 3-4x a week. I
       | skip dinner and start at 5pm and hold it until 9am. I tried
       | skipping breakfast before, that didn't work well for me.
       | 
       | Two things have been difficult for me lately:
       | 
       | A) sudden extreme cravings before I start at 5pm
       | 
       | B) a sore throat starting at around 9-10pm. I have no clue why it
       | happens.
       | 
       | Do you guys experience something similar and how do you deal with
       | it?
       | 
       | EDIT: Sorry for the confusion. I meant heartburn.
        
         | nobrains wrote:
         | Why don't you have a filling meal at 4.30 or 4.45 ?
        
         | dazc wrote:
         | Cravings and weird side-effects suggest you're lacking some
         | basic nutrient/s. Have you tried varying the types of foods you
         | eat to counter this?
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | Sore throat might be heartburn, have you changed your diet?
         | Perhaps you're eating too quickly? Are you drinking enough
         | water?
         | 
         | Might be an idea to consult a registered dietician or a GP
         | (general practitioner, a generalist doctor, sometimes called a
         | 'family doctor').
        
         | vegai_ wrote:
         | I fast about once a week or once every two weeks.
         | 
         | >A) sudden extreme cravings before I start at 5pm
         | 
         | Have you tried apple cider vinegar? That seems to work for me.
         | 
         | >B) a sore throat starting at around 9-10pm. I have no clue why
         | it happens.
         | 
         | I don't get that specifically, but I do get lowered body
         | temperature. Could sore throat be a symptom of that? Have you
         | tried hot water, perhaps with lemon and/or tea?
        
           | dqv wrote:
           | >Have you tried apple cider vinegar? That seems to work for
           | me.
           | 
           | No comment on effectiveness, but for anyone who is going to
           | do this, make sure to dilute the vinegar with some water.
        
             | primaryobjects wrote:
             | 1 tsp apple cider vinegar mixed in a full glass of water.
             | 
             | It also helps to drink with a straw to avoid residual acid
             | on the teeth (although the water already diluted it
             | enough).
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I can't speak to the sore throat but I do keto and on days I
         | skip most/all food, I get crazy food cravings that can usually
         | be addressed (provided I'm not recently re-entering keto but am
         | a week+ fat-adjusted) by drinking a bottle of water with a
         | squirt of electrolyte replacement concentrate (K+Mg) along with
         | 3-5g of salt.
         | 
         | I normally eat a pretty high-salt diet (7-10g per day depending
         | on if I eat out or not), keto or no, and replacing a day's salt
         | with just 1-2g is insufficient to keep my body from cravings. I
         | find that having 3-5g with my other misc electrolyte
         | replacement generally makes it much, much easier for me to skip
         | the day's meals.
         | 
         | Cravings are almost always your body asking for something; the
         | trick is to learn what it's asking for that doesn't involve
         | calories.
        
         | shironandon wrote:
         | have had similar and suggest:
         | 
         | - swap coffee for green tea
         | 
         | - supplement phosphatidylcholine daily
         | 
         | - drink hot water with a spoonful of apple cider vinegar and
         | honey at night
         | 
         | - measure humidity in your home and make sure it isn't too dry
         | 
         | For me this reduced inflammation and GERD issue presenting sore
         | throat at night. May take over a week to start noticing
         | results.
        
         | nuclearnice1 wrote:
         | I have moderate success solving A) by drinking a glass of
         | water.
         | 
         | Also ignore it and it will go away helps.
        
           | nemacol wrote:
           | >ignore it and it will go away helps.
           | 
           | When I was young I would hurt myself somehow and go to my
           | mother saying
           | 
           | Me - My arm hurts when I do THIS (bend arm at elbow, back and
           | forth)
           | 
           | Mom- Don't do that and it won't hurt.
           | 
           | Me - (Pikachu meme face)
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > start at 5pm and hold it until 9am
         | 
         | Isn't that basically normal? We call it breakfast for a reason,
         | and 5pm to 9pm is extremely close to what many people do
         | habitually. Maybe a slightly early dinner and a slightly late
         | breakfast, but not by much.
        
           | pelasaco wrote:
           | interesting. I do IF since 2018, but because I normally do
           | heavy sports at night, I cannot sleep if I don't eat. So I
           | eat well after training and then go until 14:00 without food
           | other than coffee and water.
        
           | shoto_io wrote:
           | Well, it was never normal for me. I used to eat until 10pm or
           | so and then start eating right after getting up at 7am. So
           | 5pm-9am adds 7h of fasting for me.
        
         | xhkkffbf wrote:
         | I find that many times I'm just thirsty not hungry. If I chug a
         | big glass of water, maybe two, I can easily skip a meal or
         | more. This routinely makes 16 hours of fasting possible.
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | Sore throat sounds like acid reflux. Can you take an antacid?
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | Or, address the cause of the reflux?
        
             | op00to wrote:
             | I assume it's from fasting.
        
       | throwaway984393 wrote:
       | The cult of IF among tech nerds is one of those bizarre
       | subcultures I'll never get used to. Here we are, modern human
       | beings who live twice as long as their forebears, and yet a small
       | fraction of them feel they need to regularly and intentionally
       | starve themselves in order to be healthy. Humans are goddamn
       | _weird_.
        
         | redisman wrote:
         | You could phrase most healthy behaviors as bizarre in todays
         | world tbf.
         | 
         | Look at these idiots spending an hour preparing green leaves
         | and lean cuts of chicken when I, a intellectual just buy a box
         | of Twinkies and get my calories in a fraction of the time and
         | effort. I am obviously the superior Hunter gatherer
        
         | goboronshka wrote:
         | Many of us are insecure from being bullied as kids and being in
         | a profession where we are often surrounded by people who are
         | smarter than us. Also the extremely high pay creates an
         | imposter syndrome, where we feel like society has "selected" us
         | to be the most intelligent and we can only live up to that
         | standard by having contrarian views on a wide range of topics.
         | 
         | The sad thing is most of us would be better off lifting weights
         | or making money or going to social events than developing
         | eating disorders.
        
         | silverpepsi wrote:
         | So let me get this straight...
         | 
         | I and at least one other friend (coincidentally who is a
         | hardcore athlete and in accounting not tech) both noticed it
         | really is the food that clouds our minds and makes us
         | unproductive at work and fall asleep in meetings. And the
         | improvement onLy got better going from low carb to IF eating
         | daily or per 48hrs, so we are weird for having common sense? Or
         | basic logic skills? If brains only work correctly when in
         | "starvation" perhaps it is you who needs to work on rewriting
         | some definitions of words. !!! Astounded.
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | I'm sure it's different for everyone.
           | 
           | I never experienced a "food coma".
           | 
           | If I'm starving I can't think straight.
        
         | ensiferum wrote:
         | Fasting isn't starving. It's living off of the food and energy
         | you ate before. I.e. done properly you're tapping i to your
         | bodyfat for energy and there's absolutely no hunger.
        
           | zajio1am wrote:
           | I guess that for short-length fasting like IF it is more your
           | glykogen reserves than your bodyfat,
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I don't know if it's limited to tech nerds, though, I find that
         | pretty much _everyone_ loves to give diet advice complete with
         | mounds of anecdotes about how it improved their life in
         | immeasurable ways, and IF is popular with them too. Hell, my 80
         | year old mother lectures me occasionally on how much skipping
         | breakfast has improved her life.
         | 
         | I do find it interesting that a group of people I would
         | otherwise suspect of being more pro-science would be so
         | enthusiastic about bro-science.
        
         | dvt wrote:
         | > a small fraction of them
         | 
         | Fasting isn't really that weird at all, people have been doing
         | it for literally thousands of years. Christians do it, Muslims
         | do it, Jews do it, Buddhists do it, and so on. A small
         | fraction?
         | 
         | I do IF just because it makes me feel better and more healthy,
         | but sometimes I fast for religious reasons.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | They're pretty different things. Isn't the whole point of
           | religious fasting that it is a different regime, and that the
           | hunger felt is used as a reminder to focus the mind/spirit on
           | higher things than bodily needs. Religious fasts are
           | purposeful privations.
           | 
           | Whilst with IF it's about adopting a habit that stays
           | constant and that negates the potential feelings of hunger by
           | teaching your body that there's no point in complaining food
           | comes in this time-period no matter how hungry it pretends to
           | be. IF is about creating a norm that is no longer experienced
           | as a privation.
        
       | crazybLanKeT wrote:
       | IF is great. IF + low(ish) carb is even better. IF + low(ish)
       | carb + eating calorie amounts matching your healthy weight is
       | amazing.
       | 
       | There is more than one way to lose weight just like there is for
       | gaining weight. Minimize as many of the offending behaviors as
       | possible. Consistency is key. Don't pick something you cannot
       | consistently repeat unless that limited time run is all you're
       | after.
       | 
       | Of the different IF schedules people pick -OMAD, 20:4, 16:8, 5:2,
       | etc-, start with anything that you can do initially without
       | getting frustrated and giving up. You will be able to increase
       | the fasting window over time. It just really works.
       | 
       | Don't get discouraged by words from people that tried and failed
       | (or gave up too quickly), or not even tried but talk out of
       | prejudice. Listen to the encouragement from so many that
       | successfully do it.
       | 
       | Best of luck!!
        
       | phonypc wrote:
       | Odd title. Study doesn't mention any anti-inflammatory response.
       | The change in hsCRP in Table 3 actually seems to show a (non-
       | significant) pro-inflammatory measure.
        
         | programmarchy wrote:
         | I came here to say the same thing. The improvements are to
         | insulin resistance and metabolism. Are those factors well-known
         | to be related to inflammation?
        
       | GDC7 wrote:
       | Ferritin is a marker of inflammation of the liver and anecdotally
       | it rises when fasting.
        
       | LightG wrote:
       | Colitis - I haven't read the article but will soon. But here is a
       | data point for anyone with Colitis, if it helps.
       | 
       | I started IF in July as a means to lose a bit of lockdown weight.
       | 
       | No breakfast, no lunch, only a substantial dinner. 4-5 Drinks
       | taken throughout the day. No real restriction. Lots of walking to
       | keep busy.
       | 
       | I've noticed a significant improvement in management of Colitis.
       | No flares. Enabling me to get back to normal life without
       | worrying about the condition throughout the day. Just (sorry
       | TMI), emptying bowels first thing in the morning (2-3) times.
       | Then don't have to worry all day.
       | 
       | Considering colitis is a primarily inflammatory response (I
       | believe), then this article rings true. YMMV
       | 
       | Once I reach target weight, not sure what I'll do. Maybe just add
       | some more protein or good fats to evening meal. It's been too
       | helpful to give up the routine.
        
         | boplicity wrote:
         | What does your diet look like otherwise?
         | 
         | I have Crohn's, and mostly manage it through diet, and am
         | always curious what other people are doing for their IBD.
        
         | jokethrowaway wrote:
         | The study seems to say the opposite of the title.
         | 
         | A marker for inflammation (hsCRP) increased. Weight and waist
         | circumference decreased. Risk of diabetes (HOMA-IR) decreased.
         | Risk of cardiovascular issues (MSS) decreased.
         | 
         | Nothing extraordinary, I think the caloric deficit reduced the
         | weight and weight loss brought down risk of diabetes and
         | cardiovascular issues.
         | 
         | I don't think it says much about IF.
        
       | Swizec wrote:
       | I've long considered my Sunday runs (26km usually) as a form of
       | sped up intermittent fasting. There's something fascinating about
       | burning a day's worth of calories in 2 hours.
       | 
       | Took a few years of practice to get my metabolism to the point
       | where it can burn ~2000 calories in 2 hours and munge through
       | enough food to feel fully operational the same day. I wonder if
       | the overall effects are similar to intermittent fasting.
       | 
       | Anecdotally I've noticed that training for long distance running
       | has made me a lot less sensitive to energy-from-food
       | fluctuations. If you can run for 2+ hours while eating 100cal of
       | running gels, what's a little missed lunch while sitting at a
       | desk?
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | I'm a big fan of Intermittent Feasting.
       | 
       | Joking aside, I've tried intermittent fasting and had more
       | balance / homeostasis as a result. They say `the first element of
       | discipline starts with your diet`. Control diet, and you control
       | many other things.
        
       | spfzero wrote:
       | I've been doing time-restricted eating for maybe 5 years, only
       | eating between 12 and 7-ish. It's not what this experiment
       | studied but is supposed to have similar effects. One thing I can
       | say is you get used to it quickly and no longer feel hunger in
       | the same urgent way as before. Hunger is more of a vague "yeah, I
       | could eat now" feeling in the back of the mind, which can be
       | easily ignored for several hours. Mood never changes, either.
       | 
       | On the few occasions I've gone 24 hours+, the hunger feeling is a
       | little stronger, but still pretty easy to ignore. For one
       | example, there is no difficulty going to sleep.
       | 
       | None of this applies when you are first starting out though :-)
        
       | kaminar wrote:
       | Intermittent fasting is NOT waiting 8 or 16 hrs to eat. IF
       | requires minimum 48 hrs of fasting. 1 meal per day is not
       | fasting, it's eating.
       | 
       | For IF to work, your body must focus on something other than
       | digestion. For most of us, digestion in one form or another
       | occurs 24 hrs per day...it's constant.
       | 
       | Once the body competes all digestion, it can focus on healing and
       | building. Don't take my word for it. Dry fasting is also great.
       | 
       | IF creates insane amounts of free time...so much you'll be hard
       | pressed to fill it.
        
       | gnarcoregrizz wrote:
       | It seemed to have helped my epilepsy. It's mentioned in the bible
       | as a treatment for the disease, and diet based treatments are
       | experiencing a resurgence in use. Keto is sometimes prescribed in
       | kids with difficult cases, and low GI (the south beach diet) is
       | similarly being prescribed to adults since keto is too difficult
       | for most. I haven't heard of IF being prescribed but my doctor
       | said it may be effective when I brought it up.
       | 
       | I did low carb/cal AM (1 egg) and didn't eat til 3 PM. I did this
       | most days of the week. There are other confounding variables so
       | don't take it as medical advice, since the diet can also
       | exacerbate seizures.
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | Could you give that Bible reference please, thanks.
        
           | gnarcoregrizz wrote:
           | Mark 9:14-29, depending on the translation. The translation
           | of biblical fasting is suspected to be one meal a day type
           | thing, like Ramadan.
           | 
           | More about the history of fasting and epilepsy here (which
           | also cites the Bible verse, god forbid):
           | 
           | https://www.medlink.com/articles/ketogenic-diet-in-the-
           | treat...
           | 
           | Of course I'm being downvoted because I mentioned a religious
           | text. It's in other secular ancient texts as well. My point
           | was more about how fasting and the ketogenic diet has been
           | recognized as a treatment for mental diseases for a long
           | time. As it relates to the title, a lot of them are suspected
           | to have roots in inflammation and metabolism.
        
       | victorvosk wrote:
       | This study seems a little weird (crap) in that they started with
       | a hardcore twice a week fast for a month then dialed it back to
       | once a week. Unless I missed it, I don't see an explanation of
       | why this approach was taken in the paper.
       | 
       | Given the subjects were high cholesterol and/or diabetic, it
       | makes me think their life styles sucked already. I couldn't
       | imagine living like then suddenly being told to stop eating for
       | entire days. I would not be shocked if people didn't really
       | adhere to the guidelines. It seems a food diary was the only
       | thing keeping them "honest". Also a staggering 40% of all
       | participants refused to answer how much alcohol they consumed on
       | average.
       | 
       | If you are going crazy with food or lack of exercise for 6 out of
       | 7 days, I don't think taking a break for one day a week is going
       | to make much of a difference.
        
       | skerit wrote:
       | The worst thing I ever did was start eating breakfast. Turns out
       | I was doing IF for over 20 years, because only after I started
       | eating (even a healthy) breakfast did I start to gain weight.
        
         | koonsolo wrote:
         | Yeah, they never should have started the "breakfast is the most
         | important meal" when there was no evidence to back this up.
         | 
         | For me also breakfast doesn't come natural to me, unless my
         | kids bake croissants in the morning ;).
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | So does nutritional ketosis... which is probably why this result
       | was found... because when you fast, you go into slight keto
       | 
       | if you don't like CR or fasting (or being hungry), consider keto
       | as an alternative, just realize that you'll have to do your
       | homework
       | 
       | I've definitely seen the same anti-inflammatory results that this
       | has.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IEuhp8RFMU
        
       | encoderer wrote:
       | I've been doing IF with some interruptions for about 10 years.
       | It's absolutely changed my life because before that I was
       | steadily gaining about 5-20lbs per year and it had really added
       | up over my 20s. Now I'm 39 in the best shape of my life.
       | 
       | So I'm invested in this technique, but I really believe the
       | primary and possibly exclusive benefit is simply calorie
       | restriction.
       | 
       | In a typical "diet" you attempt to restrict calories by remove
       | foods from your diet. The problem is, cravings are real,
       | abstinence doesn't work, and there are always new foods and new
       | temptations.
       | 
       | On an IF regimen, you restrict calories by removing eating hours
       | from your day. You don't have to abstain from anything.
       | Temptation is managed by just having a little patience until your
       | next meal.
       | 
       | Possibly there is a deeper truth to why this lifestyle works but
       | I personally like the simplicity of it.
       | 
       | It's like a rate limiter, for daily food intake.
        
         | thhyjjoiffd wrote:
         | Your intuition is pretty close to the science:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaDmSEVPZiM
        
         | theodorewiles wrote:
         | I've lost 20 lbs on IF and this is spot on. It's just a lot
         | easier (for me) to eat way less. I just only eat after 5pm
         | every day. Much much less for me to think about vs any other
         | diet. Its tough at first but mind and body adapted after a few
         | weeks.
        
         | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
         | You still have to abide by Calories In, Calories Out though. If
         | you're eating 3000+ kcals but doing IF, you're still going to
         | gain weight.
        
         | jimmaswell wrote:
         | > cravings are real, abstinence doesn't work, and there are
         | always new foods and new temptations
         | 
         | If IF worked for you that's great, but you shouldn't imply
         | every other diet doesn't work. In my case all I did was track
         | calories of everything I ate (Lose It app, highly recommended)
         | while maintaining a normal eating schedule. Down 105lbs so far.
         | For me I feel like if I just ate whatever I wanted in specific
         | timeframes it'd still be too easy to eat 3000-4000 calories.
        
           | claaams wrote:
           | I was like that too but eventually after doing one meal a day
           | Ive been feeling full on anywhere from 1200-2200 calories.
           | Really depends on the food where I'm at and what's around.
           | But you're absolutely right, there's not one BEST method for
           | everyone. I personally cannot stand the minutiae of calorie
           | counting and measuring portions so it's not good for me. I
           | will measure portions to learn to eyeball things but yeah,
           | can't do it every time I put food on a plate.
        
             | jimmaswell wrote:
             | For me it feels uncomfortable eating something I can't
             | track accurately, like it's going to actually have 5 times
             | the calories I think it would, since that's the story for
             | so much food. Like once I was hungry after a dinner and
             | there was stuffing left, so I had some assuming it was a
             | lighter food, then I looked it up and it's actually
             | extremely calorie dense.
        
           | freediver wrote:
           | I think what the OP meant is that IF has all the benefits in
           | one, simple to use format.
           | 
           | You do not need any apps, you do not need to count calories
           | and you do not need remove food you love from the menu.
           | 
           | And while it may sound that you would try to overcompensate
           | for not eating during specific timeframes, what happens in
           | reality is that your body responds by wanting less food, not
           | more.
        
           | encoderer wrote:
           | That's fair, in my head I was singling out food-restrictive
           | options like no-carb fad diets. Navigating this world of
           | abundance with our ancient brains is hard so however you do
           | it, congratulations
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | I think what the comment you are replying to is saying, and
           | which I agree with after trying IF, is that IF works simply
           | by making it _easier_ to restrict calories for the average
           | person, not that other methods are impossible or can 't work.
           | 
           | I mean, just take your example. Counting calories for
           | everything you eat is a significant amount of work, and it's
           | really easy to cheat if you're feeling hungry ("Oh, look, my
           | app says that an 'average' blueberry muffin is only 250 cals,
           | so that's what I'll put in, despite this muffin being the
           | size of my head").
           | 
           | With IF, all you have to think about is whether you're in
           | your feeding window. You can still cheat, but there is no
           | ambiguity about it, so for many people (or, fine, at least
           | for me) it's easier to keep with it. I found myself getting
           | super hungry during my fasting period, but I knew I just had
           | to wait until my feeding period, and I actually found it
           | difficult to overeat during my feeding period because I would
           | just eat until I was full and then would "run out of time" to
           | overeat.
        
             | jimmaswell wrote:
             | It doesn't feel like work to me after I'm used to it, just
             | a part of life. I'd only be cheating myself if I cheated on
             | it, so I always err on overestimating.
             | 
             | I also track protein to make sure I get at least 170g, so
             | that's an additional benefit.
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | 170g of protein?? Are you also doing a carnivore diet or
               | keto?
        
               | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
               | "gram of protein per pound of bodyweight" is a fairly
               | standard macro ratio in the fitness community.
               | 
               | 170g of protein is only 680 cals, so plenty of room left
               | over for carbs and fat.
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | I think the formula is .8g per _kg_ of bodyweight, not
               | per pound. That's a significant difference.
        
               | jimmaswell wrote:
               | Right, and in my case I was only going for .8 grams per
               | pound. It's hard to do without going over on calories
               | without a lot of meals being skinless chicken breast.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | > Lose It app, highly recommended
           | 
           | It has become such an annoying nag though. If they offered a
           | reasonable one-time payment -- not even for premium features,
           | just to make it stop nagging -- I'd pay it. But no, they want
           | me to subscribe. No thanks.
        
             | aksss wrote:
             | I have same reaction to payment plans. I fully understand
             | the business goal of recurring revenue, but several times
             | in last few months I've opted for workarounds/alternates
             | rather than paying a subscription for a product where I
             | would have just paid a flat fee if available.
        
             | jswzz wrote:
             | my folks lost a ton of weight using Noom. I'd try that if
             | Lose It annoys you.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I'll take a look at that. I have occasionally considered
               | writing my own simple logger that fit my needs (I don't
               | need a really fancy database of nutrients, my diet is
               | somewhat repetitive, so the basic FDA stuff would be
               | fine) and then releasing it for free. That's a lot more
               | work than just paying Lose It, but I really don't care
               | much for software subscriptions for every little app.
        
               | logosmonkey wrote:
               | I used to use lose it but swapped to fat secret. Its
               | database isn't as good as lose it but it's getting better
               | and it doesn't nag. I found Noom infuriatingly naggy and
               | when I went to cancel there were multiple guilt trip
               | prompts I had to OK through before they would cancel my
               | free trial which turned me 100% against them.
        
         | hh3k0 wrote:
         | > You don't have to abstain from anything.
         | 
         | I mean, you _do_ abstain from eating. But I always found it
         | easier to abstain from something entirely rather than to do it
         | in moderation.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | > But I always found it easier to abstain from something
           | entirely rather than to do it in moderation.
           | 
           | Not a knock or being troll-y but that sound like a religion.
           | As in, funny how patterns established in religion are just as
           | effective outside that context.
        
             | hh3k0 wrote:
             | I hope I am not oversharing but I definitely need my
             | patterns to cope, I have ADHD so perhaps it is related to
             | that. Maybe something along the lines of lessening the
             | impact my poor impulse control has on my life by avoiding
             | situations in which I could act impulsively. For example, I
             | do not buy sweets and pretty much never have any at home
             | because ignoring them in the store is easier than ignoring
             | them at home. For me, it is an Herculean task to start a
             | bag of sweets _without_ also finishing it in one sitting...
             | but buying no sweets in the store? That is easy peasy lemon
             | squeezy.
        
           | encoderer wrote:
           | Ok I am not a philosopher but is it really "abstinence" if
           | you only have to wait 8 hours?
        
             | jnwatson wrote:
             | For a lot of people, waiting 8 hours to eat is a long time.
             | If you've ever been around snackers, you know what I mean.
        
               | chubot wrote:
               | Yeah but this can extremely plastic. Snacking is
               | something you do, not who you are :)
               | 
               | I ate 5 or 6 times a day for 15-20 years. I would eat 3
               | meals, a snack in the afternoon, and then something
               | before bed. And probably more than that to be honest. I
               | was as much of a snacker as anybody.
               | 
               | In April I switched to eating 2 meals a day. I was very
               | hungry for literally 1 or 2 days, and then I just got
               | used to it, and started to like it!
               | 
               | Before that I was on a pretty strict diet for ~4 years.
               | But I _relaxed_ the diet after changing the schedule, and
               | lost about 5 lbs. So the heuristic of just eating twice a
               | day turns out to be easier to maintain than a diet.
               | 
               | Go figure! It was kinda shocking. I do think "3 meals a
               | day" is a relatively recent thing. Millions of people
               | lived for thousands of years without eating 3 meals a
               | day.
               | 
               | Some downsides: I eat bigger meals, and I notice a bigger
               | "tired" crash after dinner. But I think that's better
               | than feely slightly groggy multiple times a day. I
               | definitely am more aware of the fact that eating "slows
               | you down". I do think there is something to the "alert,
               | fasted" state, and I would call that pleasant.
               | 
               | Also I might have slowly gained back the 5 pounds but I'm
               | still under my target weight ("normal" BMI which is like
               | 20th percentile). I think after 6 months your body
               | probably gets used to it, and maybe I relaxed the diet a
               | bit too much. I'll continue to tweak it in the future.
               | 
               | An upside not to be discounted is that I spend less time
               | and money on food, and traveling is a lot easier as a
               | result!
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | Reminds me of the joke about celibacy. Most people are
             | celibate 99.99% of their total hours lived. But if you
             | intentionally add 0.01% to that, people lose their mind.
        
               | jonahrd wrote:
               | Just for fun I did the math. An 80 year lifespan is
               | 700,800 hours. 0.01% of that is only 70 hours. I think
               | most people have sex for more than 70 hours in the course
               | of a life time!
               | 
               | The point still stands though.
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | Differences in efficiency.
        
             | vadfa wrote:
             | For some fat people, yes. That's why they are fat: they
             | can't stop snacking.
        
               | jimmaswell wrote:
               | I never snacked when I weighed 100lbs more, there are
               | just too many damn calories in everything.
        
               | vadfa wrote:
               | Which is why I said "some". I know it's not the same set
               | of problems for all of us ;)
        
               | encoderer wrote:
               | Jim you're totally right. Our brains were wired for
               | scarcity. We are not evolved to pass up sugars or deal
               | with lookalike chemicals like opiates. The modern world
               | asks a lot of our psychology to manage that.
        
           | polishdude20 wrote:
           | I think with IF it exploits the fact that your stomach can
           | only take so much food at a time. If you restrict your eating
           | to a small window, you can't eat a whole day of calories in
           | that window just because your stomach can't take that much
           | food. It's like exploiting the fact that your stomach is a
           | buffer and you fill it only at certain times of the day.
        
             | phonypc wrote:
             | IME, most people find it rather easy to take in a days
             | worth of calories in a single sitting, with the right
             | (wrong?) kinds of food.
             | 
             | Like... a largish portion of very cheesy mac 'n' cheese
             | will do it.
        
         | hsn915 wrote:
         | I used to be way overweight. A few years ago I lost a lot of
         | weight by basically walking a lot and doing intemittent
         | fasting.
         | 
         | Then I stopped it and started to slowly gain more weight. Now
         | I'm on an IF regiment again.
         | 
         | Now, I really doubt it's the calorie restriction that's at work
         | here.
         | 
         | The human body is not a simple physical machine. It's a complex
         | system.
         | 
         | A simple machine would be some like like a car that has a set
         | amount of energy needed and simple mechanism to switch energy
         | source when one of them is almost depleted.
         | 
         | A complex machine is one that responds to the environment and
         | changes its internal behavior. For example, it can decide to
         | activate or shutdown internal systems that use energy in order
         | to conserve energy. It can decide to let go of conserving
         | energy and just make sure the body has a lot of energy for
         | performing the current activity.
         | 
         | Common wisdom says that the body goes in hunger mode if you
         | restrict calories. But I don't think that's what's going on.
         | Because you also restrict calories on IF. Instead I think that
         | when you consistently eat low calorie meals, it activates some
         | mechanism in your body that's meant to conserve energy when you
         | are living through some sort of a famine, or something like
         | that. (another possibility: instead of a famine, it thinks you
         | became a low status individual within your tribe). But when you
         | do IF you typically eat normal size, filling meals, so this
         | mechanism never gets triggered. Further more, there's probably
         | no mechanism in your brain that thinks that going for many
         | hours without food is a bad thing. Quite the opposite: it's
         | just the normal expected thing.
         | 
         | So if you do some exercise while in a fasted state, even though
         | you are technically low on calories, your brain probably thinks
         | you might be hunting for food so it will make sure you can
         | utilize all the energy you need and some more.
         | 
         | > The problem is, cravings are real, abstinence doesn't work,
         | 
         | I'm not sure what you mean here? Surely fasting is abstinence,
         | is it not?
         | 
         | You can at any time decide to open the fridge and eat
         | something. You can decide at any time to go to the nearby
         | convenience store and buy something to eat.
        
           | fjabre wrote:
           | Yes I agree with you. Body does not go into starvation mode
           | during IF. One meal a day is ideal.
           | 
           | My eating window is around 4-8pm most days the last 6 months.
           | Usually just one meal of literally anything I want and Im
           | still finding I have to eat more to stop losing weight.
        
             | throwaway803453 wrote:
             | I'll never understand OMAD from a minimum calorie
             | requirement standpoint. I watched a lean muscular YouTuber
             | prepare his one meal which was mostly cauliflower mash and
             | totaled 600 calories, in which case I call BS since he
             | probably needs about 3500cal/day given his size.
             | 
             | For those of us that aren't burning off excess fat and are
             | active what would a 2700-ish calorie meal look like. Can
             | you learn to eat 2 lbs of steak in one sitting for example
             | and do that every day ? Because it is unlikely there is
             | room in a typical stomach for 20lbs of cauliflower mash or
             | 4.5lbs of pasta eaten all at once.
             | 
             | Also from a time management standpoint spiking your
             | serotonin levels with that massive meal seems
             | counterproductive. Are you really saving time if you are a
             | drowsy for an hour or two after that massive meal ? I
             | realize the parent poster was just contemplating, but if
             | someone has actual experience I would be grateful for a
             | helpful link or comment.
        
               | phonypc wrote:
               | Presumably most people doing it have losing weight as a
               | goal, not maintaining?
               | 
               | Anyway, fat heavy foods make cramming calories pretty
               | easy. You can hide _a lot_ of butter in mashed potatoes
               | or a pasta sauce.
        
           | vb6sp6 wrote:
           | I think he is saying you can have ice cream or pizza or
           | whatever. Just not right now. So you get the benefits of
           | calorie deficit now and can satisfy the craving later
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | There are studies on this and, from what I can remember, meal
           | frequency didn't seem to have an impact on weight loss or
           | muscle gain.
           | 
           | You don't need to eat 6 meals or 1 per day to lose weight,
           | just do whatever makes it easy for you to consume the amount
           | of calories you want.
           | 
           | I agree that doing 1-2 big meal makes it easier to eat little
           | calories because you can stuff yourself up to a point.
        
             | hsn915 wrote:
             | > There are studies on this
             | 
             | Studies on this are generally poor quality, and you can
             | easily tell by looking at the study content.
             | 
             | Remember when early 2020 all the official organizations
             | (WHO, CDC) were telling people to NOT wear masks because
             | studies showed they didn't work? Yea. Turned out all the
             | studies were really bad quality.
             | 
             | "Scientific" publishing is broken and you simply can't rely
             | on it for useful information. Many studies don't even
             | replicate, but they still get published and cited.
             | 
             | For another example, see:
             | https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1459275924059217920
             | 
             | Basically, whenever I hear "studies have shown ..." I just
             | don't care. Let the studies show whatever they want. I will
             | go with my own experience and with personal anecdotes I
             | hear from people. They are way more consistent and
             | reliable.
        
               | glofish wrote:
               | The problem is that the studies that shows masks work are
               | just as broken,
               | 
               | it is simply a matter of whose broken opininon is the
               | "acceptable"
               | 
               | read below how bonkers the stats are in the mask-study
               | that the CDC uses to "prove" that masks work:
               | 
               | http://www.argmin.net/2021/09/13/effect-size/
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | > "Scientific" publishing is broken and you simply can't
               | rely on it for useful information. Many studies don't
               | even replicate, but they still get published and cited.
               | 
               | I may take issue with some of your other statements but
               | fully agree with this observation.
               | 
               | A critical thinker needs to be highly skeptical of the
               | appeal to authority used by invoking the phrases "the
               | science says", or "studies have shown".
        
         | refurb wrote:
         | _Temptation is managed by just having a little patience until
         | your next meal._
         | 
         | My hypothesis is this is the key.
         | 
         | I do something similar to IF. I'll eat two meals before 10am
         | then won't eat until 7pm or so.
         | 
         | It's not that I don't get hungry it's that I kind of don't
         | care? It's not a big deal and I can wait until the next meal.
         | 
         | Overcoming the psychological "need" to eat is a big part of it.
        
           | nick_ wrote:
           | I like this approach. My understanding of my metabolism (and
           | I suspect most others') is that if I eat a fair amount all
           | morning, my body is fueled up and can therefore spend energy
           | without worry of conservation to survive starvation.
           | 
           | If I skip breakfast, my body and especially my mind seem
           | slower and weaker for the entire day. I feel like I have to
           | drag myself through the day rather than be pushed. And, when
           | I do get hungry later in the day it's very difficult to
           | ignore. I suspect this is because my body is worried about
           | food.
           | 
           | Is metabolic economics a thing?
        
             | fpoling wrote:
             | There is unexplained difference regarding body energy usage
             | if one eats most calories before noon or in the evening.
             | With the former body spends like 100-200 more calories than
             | with the latter. This is independent of sleeping patterns,
             | what one eats and what one is doing. Even if one works
             | night shifts, the same pattern persists. And it is not
             | clear where exactly the extra energy is spent.
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | Wait, so about that night shift.. you mean "before noon"
               | isn't a relative reference to a period of time after
               | waking, it's an absolute reference to time of day
               | regardless of when sleep takes place? That's
               | interesting.. irrespective of latitude (sunlight hours)?
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. Does that mean if I do IF I can still
         | consume the same calories I consume right now, just in a
         | shorter period?
         | 
         | BTW what does your IF plan look like? I'm thinking about
         | between 4pm (needs a coffee around 2 or 3) and 8am but not sure
         | if it actually is IF.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | The idea is you _can_ eat whatever, but when you come to it
           | there 's a natural limit for most people then you feel full
           | and don't want to eat more.
           | 
           | If you imagine it to extremes, if you put all your food for
           | the day on a plate and gave yourself 1 hour how much could
           | you eat if you weren't trying to make yourself sick?
           | 
           | For most people of you only eat between noon-8pm, say
           | ("18-6") then you'll reduce your calorie intake naturally.
           | Couple it with appropriate exercise and you'll lose weight
           | (doesn't mean you'll be healthier necessarily though!).
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | vishnugupta wrote:
           | > I'm thinking about between 4pm (needs a coffee around 2 or
           | 3) and 8am
           | 
           | This is (called 16-8, 16hr fast and 8hr eating window) is
           | actually a recommended way to start IF. I've been on it for
           | ~4 months and can second the effectiveness of weight loss.
           | 
           | About the calorie intake; a funny side effect is that I'm now
           | _naturally_ less hungry even during the 8hr window so the
           | calorie intake has automatically reduced.
           | 
           | I was wondering why would that be and then learned about
           | insulin resistance and things began to fall in place.
           | 
           | Now I'm doing 16-8 IF _and_ close to zero added sugar diet
           | (which is painfully difficult in Indian cuisine, more so
           | during this festival season :-|).
        
         | saruken wrote:
         | I've been meaning to get into IF forever. Do you mind sharing
         | what system/method in particular has worked for you?
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | > abstinence doesn't work
         | 
         | Well, it does. I don't like to feed the myth believed by
         | overweight people that they won't lose weight if they simply
         | started eating 2000 kCal/day. It's psychologically hard, sure
         | (for some) but it would work.
         | 
         | However, it's often easier to eat "nothing" than a little --
         | especially of high-carb products. It's easier to eat no
         | tortilla chips than to have "just one".
         | 
         | And getting used to a np-food period of the day similarly helps
         | to stop the cravings.
        
           | tonyedgecombe wrote:
           | People have been banging that drum for decades, meanwhile the
           | developed world is becoming increasingly obese. It's quite
           | clear that telling people they should just eat less doesn't
           | work.
        
         | jokethrowaway wrote:
         | The problem I noticed with IF or other "diets" which don't
         | track calories in some way, is that people may tend to eat a
         | lot more once they start doing physical activity, negating the
         | weight loss benefit or gaining too much fat.
         | 
         | The method I recommend nowadays is to keep your diet as
         | constant as possible, then replace meals or snacks with protein
         | rich, lower calories alternatives until you're satisfied with
         | your protein intake (depending on your weight) and you hit a
         | maintenance diet and , as in your weight doesn't change
         | averaged over two weeks, while doing your normal training
         | regimen (which should include some incremental resistance
         | training for muscle gaining or preservation and some cardio for
         | heart health).
         | 
         | Then you have the choice of adding a 200 calories protein rich
         | snack if you're trying to build muscle, removing a snack for
         | 200 calories (if you can manage that) or adding some daily
         | cardio consuming an extra 200 calories (like a 20m cardio
         | class, 2x20 minutes walk, a martial arts class, gymnastic
         | skill-work). You should always weight your self to keep track
         | of things. Eventually you'll weight will stabilise to a new low
         | or a new high and you can go through the process again.
         | 
         | In this way, you don't really count calories, you just roughly
         | know that you'll have a few eggs for breakfast, some pasta for
         | lunch, meat or fish for dinner.
        
         | redisman wrote:
         | What meal do you skip? My problem is that I can't skip
         | breakfast or I get lightheaded (I've passed out working out
         | before breakfast multiple times). And I feel like during the
         | work day I need glucose for my brain to function.
        
           | dsizzle wrote:
           | I find breakfast the easiest meal to skip, and putting sleep
           | in there and skipping late nate snacks makes a 16 hr fast
           | fairly easy.
           | 
           | My wife is like you though, so obviously it depends on the
           | person.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | I had the same problem, but it gets easier if you train it.
           | 
           | I recently started cycling for 1h in the morning without
           | having breakfast, and after a few days it became quite easy.
           | Just don't try to convince yourself that it is somehow a bad
           | thing to skip breakfast. Breakfast only makes you hungry for
           | the rest of the day.
           | 
           | I'm doing 16h/8h intermittent fasting, and I only feel
           | slightly hungry on some days in the last 1h before my feeding
           | window.
        
           | encoderer wrote:
           | I skip breakfast aside from one cup of unsweetened coffee and
           | on the other end I brush my teeth for the night with my
           | daughter when she goes to bed at 8pm.
        
           | ravar wrote:
           | At some point your body starts making modest amounts of
           | ketones overnight/until you eat, so you can still be
           | productive without eating.
        
           | jswzz wrote:
           | If you're gonna work out early in the AM it does make sense
           | to have some kind of fruit or light snack right before. Or
           | you can drink BCAAs during the workout to keep you energized.
           | Just don't let that turn into eating a proper breakfast at
           | like 6am otherwise you're going to end up eating an extra
           | 500+ calories a day.
        
         | jb1991 wrote:
         | Didn't work in my case. I could fast 16 - 18 hours a day
         | without difficulty. But I made up for it in what I ate in the
         | remaining. Always felt hungry and ate more than I should when
         | not fasting. Still gained weight. Tried IF for months without
         | losing weight, and actually gained a little.
        
           | ec109685 wrote:
           | 36 hours was the key for me because you can't make up for
           | that the next day (eat at night and then nothing the next day
           | until the following morning). If I stick to that once a week,
           | I am good. Otherwise, not.
        
           | tootie wrote:
           | Same. I toughed it out for almost 6 months because your body
           | is supposed to adjust but mine never did. I was doing 12-8
           | and some days I was so hungry I would start getting blurry
           | vision by 11am. Didn't lose an ounce either.
        
             | jamesmontalvo3 wrote:
             | It's fascinating how different peoples' bodies are. Maybe
             | try a slight variation? My father in law has been
             | restricting his food intake to 600 calories per day a few
             | days a week for years, and it's done wonders for him. The
             | exact numbers might not matter; 700 calories twice a week
             | may be better for you, for example. I'm just thinking this
             | might be good for you if you need some constant (but low)
             | calorie intake.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-13 23:03 UTC)