[HN Gopher] Show HN: Tablum.io - No-Code Self-Service BI/Data An...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Tablum.io - No-Code Self-Service BI/Data Analytics Tool
        
       Author : instad
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2021-11-11 12:46 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tablum.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tablum.io)
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | Feedback - the music on the demo video is horrible (IMHO).
        
         | instad wrote:
         | Thanks for watching.
        
         | Bishonen88 wrote:
         | Not only the music, but the whole video was lacklustre. The
         | effects used were not really fitting the whole vibe of a BI
         | tool (personal opinion).
         | 
         | Contrast this with a video like this one:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIS-m0B2cY
         | 
         | After watching the above, I'm more curious to check out the
         | real product.
        
       | rexreed wrote:
       | Not to be flippant, but in what way is Excel not a no-code /
       | self-service BI / Data Analytics tool? Or where Google Sheets is
       | heading? Serious question. The average non-technical user goes
       | first to Excel or Excel-like things.
        
         | waxdotrun wrote:
         | This was my observation as well. Sheets is actually quite good,
         | but what's missing is connectivity to other tools (e.g. your
         | database). This is exactly the problem we're going after with
         | Wax[0]. We let you deeply integrate Sheets into your other
         | apps.
         | 
         | 0 - https://www.wax.run/
        
         | Frost1x wrote:
         | Excel doesn't have a lot of visual based development features
         | aside from the tabular structure and graphical data and
         | function reference. People still have to understand function
         | calls and conditionals which aren't represented in what I would
         | call verging on "no-code" ideals.
         | 
         | Excel applications also tend to start rather innocently where
         | something rather simple is programmed in the cellular
         | structure. People quickly feel empowered and begin adding more
         | and more dynamic aspects. At some point spreadsheet based
         | applications turn more into some unmaintainble monstrosity that
         | have all sorts of business and application logic embedded in
         | them that need to get handed elsewhere and someone else
         | familiar with "code" or software design has to translate
         | everything to.
         | 
         | I've been involved in more of this than I care to admit for
         | business applications and it's usually a nightmare because the
         | applications become more critical to the business than anyone
         | but the spreadsheet maintainer is aware of. Suddenly something
         | new and time critical is needed or an error is discovered and
         | the person who created it largely can't remember everything
         | they created and why, so it turns into an software
         | archeological endeavor.
         | 
         | I've seen notebooks with dozens of sheets containing all sorts
         | of embedded data structures on different sheet with all sorts
         | of relationships inside and outside of sheets and nightmare
         | chains of conditionals added in that I've had to sift through.
         | 
         | Sometimes the user then discovers macros or VBA and it becomes
         | a dice roll if things are better or worse (usually better
         | because at least you can quickly follow all the embedded
         | relationships even if they're not well structured unlike logic
         | embedded in cells with all sorts of spatial references you need
         | 10 copies open to trace and debug).
         | 
         | Excel is hardly "no code" it just has a nice beginner learning
         | curve that gets people into dangerous situations before they
         | know they are. I'm not entirely sure about the direction of
         | Google Sheets as I haven't used it in years.
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | My workflow for the longest time has been: use a SQL GUI to run
         | SQL queries but then dump that to CSV so I could load in Excel
         | and make graphics I could embed in a presentation or sent in an
         | email.
         | 
         | I don't think Excel or Google Sheets are the right interface
         | for diverse data sources that have different query styles and
         | different connection types. Visually the space in each Cell is
         | just pretty constrained.
         | 
         | I am building an open source tool [0] for these kinds of
         | workflows where you need to combine queries, scripting in
         | Python/JavaScript/etc, graphing, dashboards, email exports in
         | one place. It's very similar to tablum.io (this post) but
         | instead of doing any ETL it's just a smart client for joining
         | data client-side.
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/multiprocessio/datastation
        
       | TekMol wrote:
       | The site wants me to log in via Google or Facebook.
       | 
       | No, thanks.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | We will enable email registration and authorization soon. Stay
         | tuned. And thanks for commenting.
        
       | roystonvassey wrote:
       | Cool stuff.
       | 
       | Just curious- how does it stack against Metabase
       | (https://www.metabase.com/product/) for example? I used Metabase
       | a few years back and was really blown away with the ease of use.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | Thanks! Well, in general they both are self-service BIs, and
         | have common features. Yet, TABLUM.IO is focused more on faster
         | data extraction from files e.g. you can just drag and drop
         | JSON, XML or CSV file to load data from it. Or specify an URL
         | for data loading from remote host. Then it is stored in a local
         | storage as a "view" (similar to sql table). And you can work
         | with it like it is an SQL table using sqlite syntax: JOIN with
         | other loaded data, filter, clean up, export or generate charts.
         | Of cause, it has connectors to popular DBs such as postgres,
         | mysql and clickhouse.
         | 
         | Ultimately, we're working towards a faster data analysis so you
         | won't spend too much time setting up connectors to files and
         | databases. Just get the results as fast as possible.
         | 
         | Same with data analysis: it has embedded support for aggregate
         | - and window-functions. You can get "MOVING AVERAGE" just
         | clicking the table columns (no keystrokes required).
         | 
         | Dashboards are not yet implemented, but we're working on it.
         | 
         | Thanks!
        
           | roystonvassey wrote:
           | Got it! Thanks and best wishes!
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | This seems more of an end-to-end system including etl job
         | scheduling, data loading and local storage.
        
           | instad wrote:
           | Exactly!
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | Metabase is primarily for sql and this system seems to support
         | more than just sql.
        
           | vladsanchez wrote:
           | Agreed! Suddenly I thought of Metabase, Looker or even
           | Superset.
        
           | roystonvassey wrote:
           | Ah right, thanks!
        
       | mattm wrote:
       | Good luck. I previously worked for a BI company. It's an
       | extremely crowded space.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | Thanks! Yes, it's very competitive environment. So we're trying
         | to stand out as a data analytics tool for developers.
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | The dream of no code lives on.
       | 
       | I've tried many no code tools over the decades. As an individual
       | and as a group.
       | 
       | Ease of use is really important. But I think easy for Python
       | programmers is better than easy for people to click. Logic is
       | logic, so whether you program in code or via some wack gui, you
       | still need programmers.
       | 
       | Every time it's come down to regretting committing to a closed,
       | proprietary "programming language" that is the no code tool.
       | 
       | The exception is for simple stuff. But with data projects simple
       | projects usually get complicated fast. So Id rather use a tool
       | that scales well rather than one that starts easy but then is
       | very hard to scale.
        
         | goto11 wrote:
         | > Logic is logic, so whether you program in code or via some
         | wack gui, you still need programmers.
         | 
         | Perhaps, depending on your definition of programmers, but lots
         | of people can use logic. An accountant making complex
         | calculations and forecasts in Excel is surely just as logic and
         | precise as a programmer hacking something together in Python.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | That's true. But some of the best programmers I knew were
           | accountants.
           | 
           | There's a difference between being able to program (everyone)
           | and being a professional programmer.
           | 
           | It's like everyone can cook dinner but not all can be a chef.
           | This doesn't mean the solution is microwaveable meals for
           | everyone.
        
         | narush wrote:
         | Totally agree with this comment. This sort of "no-lock-in"
         | thinking is exactly what inspired Mito [1] (I'm a co-founder,
         | FYI).
         | 
         | Mito is low-code data analysis tool inspired by spreadsheets.
         | When you edit the spreadsheet, Mito generates Python code
         | directly into your Jupyter lab notebook.
         | 
         | The benefit here is that there's no lock in. If Mito support
         | the action the user wants to take, they can use Mito for a
         | quick point-and-click experience. If not, they can just write
         | Python code as they normally do!
         | 
         | [1] https://trymito.io/hn
        
         | instad wrote:
         | I would call TABLUM.IO - a low-code tool. Power SQL user can
         | type any complex SQL query in the SQL console. Whereas the
         | beginners won't spend much time doing simple "SELECT" or
         | calculating the average, they can just click on the header of
         | the table and select "stats" to see the result.
         | 
         | I agree that no-code is limited to some general scenario, but
         | there're still a lot of them.
         | 
         | Thus, we decided to leave an opportunity to choose which way to
         | go: use mouse for simple / general actions or use SQL console
         | by power users to archive some complex results.
        
         | waxdotrun wrote:
         | Agreed, low-code is the happy middle ground here. Code is the
         | most concise way to express what you want to do with data, so
         | tools should just embrace that instead of hiding it away.
         | 
         | We're running a low-code internal tool builder and everything
         | is built / configured with code, but you never start from
         | scratch, so it's 50x more productive then building your own.
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | No-code BI and ETL tools are intended mainly as a replacement
         | for Excel, not a replacement for Python.
         | 
         | If you are an accomplished Python programmer, you might code a
         | solution or (e.g. if you want to do something ad hoc quickly)
         | use a no-code tool.
         | 
         | If you aren't a programmer, your choice is typically: learn
         | Python, use Excel, wait for a programmer to do it for you or
         | use a no-code tool. A no-code tool will often be by far the
         | best solution.
        
           | instad wrote:
           | You are completely right. Just wanted to add that Excel is a
           | great product and it can be considered as a BI tool. The only
           | thing it lacks of is data merging. You can easily merge data
           | across sheets but it becomes a challenging task when you need
           | to merge/"join" data from databases, especially huge
           | datasets. This is where the self-service BI tools come into
           | play.
           | 
           | TABLUM.IO simplifies data extraction/load/import from files,
           | web and databases. You can load data from postgres, json file
           | and application API, then merge data into a single table,
           | display as a sheet and draw a chart for it. Wheres it is
           | almost impossible with Excel or GoogleSheet.
        
       | mercurialsolo wrote:
       | The interface lacks punch. While the idea of making a self-serve
       | BI tool which can plugin the gap of bringing better understanding
       | around data is super-cool, the execution here for sure needs
       | work. Tried it out and it's cool for someone to hack with right
       | now.
       | 
       | Early launch.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | Thanks. We've just recently announced the very first version,
         | and looking forward to any feedback and feature requests. Will
         | do our best to make interface punchy!
        
       | crad wrote:
       | "Try for Free" with no info about what I would pay... no thanks.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | This is the early stage product launch, the product is
         | completely free for now. So no worries regarding the pricing
         | and charged, you will not be asked about credit cards. Feel
         | free to test it. We do it mostly to collect feedback on the
         | missing features and workflow. Thanks!
        
       | tmtwhn wrote:
       | No information on pricing and social only logins?
       | 
       | I was interested in this product, but no thanks. At the very
       | least if you're not ready to commit you could provide "beta"
       | pricing for a year until you get that figured out.
        
         | instad wrote:
         | There's no paid plans at the moment. Just try it out for free
         | with full features.
         | 
         | Just curious, why the social logins are bad?
        
           | garciasn wrote:
           | Because they allow third parties to build bigger ID graphs
           | and audiences for ad targeting.
           | 
           | By all means, have them for convenience for those users who
           | want to use them, but for the rest of us who know better,
           | we'd appreciate the option to provide you our burner/one-time
           | email addresses.
        
             | instad wrote:
             | We're going to extend the way to login for the cloud
             | version. Currently, email/password auth is available only
             | in self-hosted version (docker image installed on your
             | VPS). Feel free to reach out to me info@tablum.io, if you'd
             | like to test it. Thanks.
        
               | tmtwhn wrote:
               | Glad to hear this. Marketing that you'll offer a self
               | hosted version and that email logins are coming soon
               | would go a long way to improving trust.
        
           | hungryforcodes wrote:
           | > There's no paid plans at the moment. Just try it out for
           | free with full features.
           | 
           | OK. That's compelling enough.
           | 
           | > Just curious, why the social logins are bad?
           | 
           | How uniquely identifying are they to be honest?
        
           | abakker wrote:
           | because this is a tool for doing work? Nobody (or very few)
           | HN people are going to want to do BI with their facebook
           | accounts, if we even have FB accounts.
        
             | Vespasian wrote:
             | Many (read most) won't have a professional Facebook or
             | Google account.
             | 
             | My boss would not be happy if I had to use a Facebook
             | account on my work machine.
             | 
             | And who evaluates BI tools in their free time?
        
               | instad wrote:
               | There's also Google login, do you have gmail? Is it OK to
               | log in via a corporate gmail?
        
               | runako wrote:
               | Outlook is bigger than Google for corporate email. I
               | would suggest adding that (or better yet, listen to the
               | other feedback and allow a standard email login flow).
        
               | instad wrote:
               | Sure. We will add email registration soon.
        
           | tmtwhn wrote:
           | Pretty much what the others here have been pointing out, that
           | I have to hand over my data before I can evaluate whether or
           | not I trust you with it. Feel free to verify the email I use
           | to prevent abuse.
           | 
           | I've been evaluating a lot of products in this space in the
           | past week and I think it is a space that could do with a
           | developer-first approach. But to do that I still want to see
           | a path towards using it at scale that's a little more fleshed
           | than a "talk to sales" equivalent. Even if this were open
           | source, I would be happy to pay for someone else to host and
           | scale it, but at least I would know I couldn't be
           | unreasonably locked in after making my business depend on it.
        
             | hermitcrab wrote:
             | There are desktop alternatives (such as Easy Data
             | Transform, Alteryx and Tableau Prep) where your data stays
             | on your machine. Which helps with latency, as well as
             | privacy.
        
               | tmtwhn wrote:
               | In this instance I'm referring to my personal data that
               | can be pulled from social profiles, not the data to be
               | analysed. :)
        
               | instad wrote:
               | We're offering a self-hosted version to keep your data on
               | your server.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | Understood. But I would generally be more worried about
               | uploading my data to the cloud, than using a social
               | profile to do it.
        
         | runako wrote:
         | +1. Given that prices for products in this space range over
         | several orders of magnitude, I wouldn't spend time evaluating
         | without knowing whether my budget is even in the same ballpark.
         | 
         | Would I expect to spend $1k annually? $10k? $100k? More?
        
           | instad wrote:
           | Got you. We will add the pricing soon just for the sake of
           | right budgeting.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-11 23:03 UTC)