[HN Gopher] CIA and Gen Z
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       CIA and Gen Z
        
       Author : welpandthen
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2021-11-10 20:11 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonian.com)
        
       | matt123456789 wrote:
       | Good god. Anybody else on iOS reading this article having the
       | text jump around on the page as ads load and unload? Completely
       | unreadable.
        
       | ClosedPistachio wrote:
       | The full title:
       | 
       | The CIA Is Trying to Recruit Gen Z--and Doesn't Care If They're
       | All Over Social Media
        
         | JALTU wrote:
         | Hiding in plain sight, anyone?
         | 
         | First rule of tradecraft is you don't talk about tradecraft.
        
       | Sanzig wrote:
       | On Gen Z CIA recruits having pre-existing social media presences:
       | 
       | > They're shrewd enough either to be circumspect users of social
       | media from the start or to review (and delete) old problematic
       | tweets and posts.
       | 
       | Is this particularly effective, though? Most social media sites
       | have been scraped to hell and back - surely there's archives of
       | the old problematic stuff.
       | 
       | It must be tough working in counterintelligence these days -
       | social media has greatly increased the attack surface for
       | blackmail.
        
         | R0b0t1 wrote:
         | If you control the search engines you can just make it hard to
         | find.
        
           | cookingrobot wrote:
           | And see who's looking for it.
        
           | Sanzig wrote:
           | For a private OSINT investigator, sure. But a state-level
           | actor (ie: the sort of groups that the CIA is supposed to
           | butts heads with) could easily maintain their own mirrors.
           | 
           | Hell, if you have a few dozen terabytes of disk space you can
           | download the entire plaintext archive of Reddit comments from
           | Pushshift, regardless of if they've been deleted or not. And
           | that's something a private citizen can do spending a couple
           | grand on hardware. Do we really think that the Chinese
           | Ministry of State Security or Russian GRU aren't keeping
           | archives of Twitter and public Facebook posts for use as
           | blackmail material down the line?
        
       | forgotmypw17 wrote:
       | https://archive.md/XfMUP
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | Social media could be a perfect cover: An Instagram "model" who
       | travels the world hooking up with rich guys who will pay for her
       | trips. Am I being sarcastic or serious?
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | But seen another way: Hookers are, in my mind, the epitome of
         | suspects of spying... I suppose a third of the world is driven
         | by pillow discussions, whether actual spying, just influence,
         | mere affinity, or rape accusations to get rid of a political
         | person.
        
       | heyda wrote:
       | This entire article reads like a paid advert, it's so hilarious
       | 
       | "Though you'd think a person accustomed to being super-active on
       | the group chat would struggle with being separated from their
       | phone all day, this analyst assured me, "The mission is so
       | dynamic that you'll rarely, if ever, be bored, and the longing
       | for your phone and social media sort of dissipates.""
       | 
       | ya... sure... if we ignore all the time waiting for meetings to
       | start in a concrete box with no windows and nothing to do, or
       | sitting in front of your computer for hours answering
       | emails/dealing with paperwork.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bruce343434 wrote:
       | Does anybody else have an issue where it just loads a blank page?
        
         | aesh2Xa1 wrote:
         | Are you using uBlock Origin? Try adjusting your filters.
        
           | bruce343434 wrote:
           | if a site requires me to disable adblock, it's broken.
        
       | keewee7 wrote:
       | I'm Gen Z.
       | 
       | Most Gen Zs are socialists (we actually know what it means) with
       | a small minority of libertarians.
       | 
       | Very few would want to work for the CIA.
        
         | mcguire wrote:
         | Wait, I thought all the Gen Z's were living with their parents,
         | unemployed, and desperate for an income to pay off their
         | student loans.
        
         | handrous wrote:
         | > Thirty-one percent of voters ages 18 to 24 supported Trump in
         | November, according to exit polls, down from 37 percent in
         | 2016.
         | 
         | From NBC.
         | 
         | Sure, 37% isn't "most", but I think it's a fair guess that if
         | 37% supported Trump, well under 50% of the total are
         | socialists.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | You keep saying 37% as if that is the most relevant number
           | when it's not. the 31% from last year is both more indicative
           | of recent trends and cuts deeper into the Gen Z demographic.
           | I think a good chunk of people who were 18-24 in 2016 would
           | still be considered Millennials.
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | OK, but are you arguing against the substance of it? 2020,
             | that age range would have all been Gen Z, I'm pretty sure.
             | Still 31%. Do you think the breakdown of Gen Z political
             | opinions, ordered by prominence, is "socialist (51+%) ->
             | Trump supporter (~31%) -> _everything else_ (less than 18%)
             | "? My educated guess would be you could flip those
             | "socialist" and "everything else" numbers and that'd be way
             | closer to correct--which is still a _huge_ increase over
             | other generations, if it 's even as high as 18%!
             | 
             | FWIW if we had a viable, actual socialist party, I'd vote &
             | even campaign for them. But I think you're way wrong about
             | _how far_ things are shifting, with Gen Z, unfortunately. I
             | do _hope_ I 'm the one who's wrong, but I doubt it.
             | 
             | I'm a millennial, but if I look at my social group (mostly
             | gen-z through gen-x) it's nearly all socialists and left-
             | or off-the-spectrum-anarchists[EDIT: probably a couple
             | would identify, specifically, as left-libertarian, now that
             | I think about it, which is very unlike right-libertarian--
             | at least one of those might pointedly insist on just
             | calling the left-libertarian position "liberal"]. That's my
             | bubble, though, and doesn't reflect the proportions for the
             | rest of the country.
             | 
             | [EDIT] Maybe we have different thresholds or definitions of
             | "socialist"? I'd believe that over half of Gen Z wants a
             | "public option" for healthcare, and _maybe_ even M4A, for
             | instance. Hell, I wouldn 't be surprised if some Gen Z
             | Trumpers want those (Trump did, oddly enough, give some
             | lip-service to reform in that direction in his campaigns,
             | though not to M4A)
        
         | walshemj wrote:
         | I somewhat doubt that more like wet Tories (Eisenhower
         | republican's)
         | 
         | There's a lot of "hobbyists" who think they are socialists
        
         | thereddaikon wrote:
         | Actual socialists had secret police. Every government has
         | intelligence services. What do you think being a socialist
         | means and what does that have to do with working for the CIA?
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Working for the CIA means submitting to and supporting the
           | existing power structure (unless you're doing a long-march-
           | through-the-institutions, subversion-from-within thing,
           | which, good luck against the CIA).
           | 
           | Now once the socialist regime sets up secret police, it will
           | be utterly benevolent and work solely toward emancipation of
           | the working class.
        
           | handrous wrote:
           | Most folks throwing around "socialist" in a positive light in
           | the US mean it like "social democracy", as in the Nordics or
           | various European social-democratic parties.
           | 
           | The socialist-socialists--having known a few--usually just
           | say Marxist or communist to describe their position, in my
           | experience. "Socialist" only means "like Venezuela or East
           | Germany" when a Republican is saying it, not when people
           | self-describe as socialist.
           | 
           | [EDIT] and yes, to head it off, even Norway has intelligence
           | services, sure--but they don't have Stasi.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | Then there are the democratic socialists, who are actually
             | socialist (unlike the social democrats) but who disavow
             | Marxism-Leninism. Problem is, assuming you set up a
             | democratic socialist regime, if you want to keep the
             | democratic bit, you risk losing the socialist bit (and vice
             | versa). A lot of demsocs don't realize this; many believe
             | that democracy and socialism are completely coterminous
             | with each other.
        
         | havkd wrote:
         | First, that depends on your circles. Second, many people turn
         | to the right as they mature.
        
           | keewee7 wrote:
           | Unfortunately people's political positions today are more
           | static because of social media bubbles.
        
             | laurent92 wrote:
             | Source? This seems like an estimation based on people
             | around you; In my surroundings, people shifted from
             | moderate to the extremes both sides, and I moved from
             | center-left to stark right.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Ok zoomer
        
         | missinfo wrote:
         | What does it mean?
        
       | mcguire wrote:
       | " _When you pull up to the CIA headquarters in Langley, you have
       | to shout your Social Security number out the window into a
       | speaker, like when you're ordering fries at a drive-through. Much
       | like the Union that the Agency was formed to protect, the system,
       | it seems, could be more perfect._ "
       | 
       | True story: I went to a job interview on Redstone Arsenal which
       | meant I needed to get a vehicle pass. The recruiter sent me an
       | email asking for my SSN; I replied that I wasn't comfortable
       | sending it via email and then called him with it.
       | 
       | The next day I received a CC: copy of the email request to the
       | Arsenal visitor center, including my SSN. I was unimpressed.
       | 
       | " _what I'm told is a very contentious parking situation where
       | lots of spots are so far from the office that a shuttle has to
       | transport employees from their cars to their desks (a spy's
       | supposedly glamorous life actually laced with drudgery and
       | inconvenience--how very John le Carre)..._ "
       | 
       | The parking spots nearest the building I used to work in, when we
       | went in to work, were numbered and reserved for particular NASA
       | employees. Many of those employees worked 7:30 to 3:30, so when I
       | typically wandered in half were empty and when I left they were
       | all empty. But if I, contractor peon (which makes up 70-90% of
       | our organization), were to park there I would get a ticket from
       | NASA Protective Services. There _were_ a few general parking
       | spaces closer than those, but they were routinely taken by NASA
       | employees because they were a few feet closer than their assigned
       | spaces. We parked out on the outskirts.
       | 
       | (P.s. The vast majority of CIA employees are not spies.)
       | 
       | " _Demographic data from four years after that (2019), collected
       | by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, revealed
       | that intelligence agencies were still behind the federal and
       | civil workforce in minority representation and that the spy
       | agencies' head counts were 61 percent male, 39 percent female._ "
       | 
       | Way back in the '90s, I had a friend of Indian descent whose
       | sister worked for the FBI. She said her sister was always getting
       | pestered about moving into investigative field work because no
       | one would suspect she was undercover.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | No need to fear, the only people who have unfettered access to
         | your email communications is the United States Government.
        
         | humanwhosits wrote:
         | Seems like we should stop treating SSN user id like a password
        
           | mjevans wrote:
           | SSN is current the _defacto_, unplanned, person ID and
           | somehow also password. I agree this is insane.
           | 
           | A National ID, that is designed to more strongly prove ID and
           | also designed to be used as a secure form of Authentication
           | for Authorization services... THAT is what I'd really love
           | politicians to approve.
           | 
           | I'm currently in the process of upgrading my enhanced ID
           | drivers license to a Passport (done) and then applying for
           | Global Entry, because it's only 15 more dollars than the TSA
           | Precheck and includes it... so why not do that? That's my
           | response to a lack of a national ID.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | Unless this recently change it is also standard practice in the
         | military to write your SSN on your checks and show your SSN
         | which is on your military ID to anyone at the BX/PX. We had to
         | say our SSN every time visiting the chow hall.
        
           | mcguire wrote:
           | I hope it's changed; _you 're not supposed to do that._(TM)
           | But the military operates in its own little world in some
           | respects.
        
             | cwkoss wrote:
             | It _should_ be fine to broadcast SSN, the blame really
             | falls to credit reporting companies and lenders treating it
             | as a private and secure identifier.
             | 
             | SSN's weren't designed to be secure, and after decades of
             | leaks they certainly aren't now. Lenders have attempted to
             | brand losses based on this as "identity theft" (putting
             | onus on the person) rather than just "we failed to properly
             | authenticate before handing this person our money". Time to
             | stop subsidizing usurers by letting them get away with
             | this. SSNs are effectively public, and are not secure
             | identifiers.
        
           | dkarl wrote:
           | I think it's a bit late to start treating SSNs as anything
           | more than an essentially public piece of identifying
           | information, like your name and address that you give out to
           | anybody you buy anything from. I think every public school
           | teacher I ever had handled my SSN. Sometimes my schools
           | would, for convenience, post grades or exam results in the
           | halls using only SSNs so that nobody could supposedly know
           | what anybody else's grades were. Being a competitive sort, I
           | always wanted to know who else was getting good grades, and
           | it was easy to figure out. The idea that anybody is treating
           | SSNs as sensitive information is a little bit alarming,
           | because that cat is out of the bag.
        
         | ajcp wrote:
         | "Way back in the '90s, I had a friend of Indian descent whose
         | sister worked for the FBI. She said her sister was always
         | getting pestered about moving into investigative field work
         | because no one would suspect she was undercover."
         | 
         | I used to work in D.C. in/around DoD and Middle Eastern
         | affairs. Not the Lords work, but in a geographic area and
         | domain that people just associate with spooks. Even now, as a
         | software engineer in a non-related field and metro area, upon
         | hearing about my background everyone, and I mean everyone, will
         | at some point joke about me being a spy or working for the CIA.
         | I find it funny that no one has ever thought that this also
         | means I'd be the LEAST likely to be anything clandestine. I
         | think half of it stems from the fact that I'm just an average
         | white dude from the Midwest; My brown or black co-workers were
         | never seemed to be suspect.
        
       | altantiprocrast wrote:
       | > One would think it's basically impossible to get millennials
       | and zoomers into covert jobs. The youngest of this bunch of young
       | people have spent their entire lives online, some since their
       | parents blasted out their first ultrasound picture as a pregnancy
       | announcement, before they'd even gained sentience.
       | 
       | > how exactly are you supposed to achieve this level of anonymity
       | when you've flung untold reams of identifiable content across the
       | digital world?
       | 
       | Assuming that that applies to every single Gen-Z or Millennial is
       | the most "OK Boomer" stereotype ever
        
         | Sanzig wrote:
         | I don't think the article was trying to state that's the case
         | for every millenial or Gen-Z, just that it's true for a wide
         | swath of them. I'd say that's generally accurate.
        
           | altantiprocrast wrote:
           | If that was the case, wouldn't the CIA just hire those who
           | aren't in that wide swath? Case closed according to the
           | journalist I would think
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | True for a wide swath of the _visible_ ones, maybe...
           | 
           | Bog-standard confirmation bias, I'd call it.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | Anecdotally my kids have their social media profiles set to
         | "private" and don't have any motivation to make them public. In
         | fact, most of their friends with a few exceptions have the same
         | setup. They also regularly "wash" their profiles because
         | they're kids and are constantly redefining themselves to their
         | peers. Good luck finding any of that in a public archive.
        
           | alphabettsy wrote:
           | Private, but likely with many friends and acquaintances.
           | Everyone they allow has access to all they've shared. This is
           | a good step, but this isn't the level of protection some
           | believe it is.
        
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