[HN Gopher] Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summari...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web -
       built for devs
        
       Author : richardsocher
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2021-11-09 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (you.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (you.com)
        
       | j0e1 wrote:
       | Congratulations on the beta launch! I am all for privacy-friendly
       | search engines.
       | 
       | My 2-cents is default to the familiar list view for search
       | results. The current card-view makes it cumbersome to navigate
       | (horizontal and vertical scroll) and scanning screen-width end-
       | to-end. And with my penchant to serially browse results, it can
       | result in me over-spending time to find what I need. Also, it
       | would force you to have a tighter ranking of results. The current
       | view could still be an option.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Yea. We debated this one for a while. There's a "regression to
         | the mean" type of thing going on where every other search
         | engine in the last 20 years just looks like a Google knockoff.
         | We found that many different types of users love the new
         | layout. It allows you zoom into one dimension of your search,
         | e.g. lots of Reddit results or Medium articles and then also
         | quickly skip to the next. It will work well on mobile too
         | (though we're focused on desktop for now) where many users are
         | used to scrolling left/right and up/down in e.g. Instagram.
         | 
         | Depending on your input device, it can be more or less
         | intuitive:
         | 
         | Worst case is folks with a single scroll wheel mouse. There you
         | need to use shift+scroll wheel to move horizontally (that
         | actually works in every app and OS). With trackpads and touch
         | screens it's a lot easier.
         | 
         | For some the layout is busy but especially developers told us
         | they like the higher information density a lot and can avoid
         | opening 20 different tabs to find what they're looking for.
         | 
         | That being said, I understand that it will take some time to
         | adjust to something new and a less-Google-y future.
        
           | Fauntleroy wrote:
           | The problem is that the majority of users will likely bounce
           | right off of such a foreign interface and never come back.
           | Personally, I won't even consider this search engine until
           | there's a less chaotic way to view the results.
        
           | techbio wrote:
           | I understand the concept, but there have been several search
           | engines that return a richer UI, the name "Clusty" comes to
           | mind among others, and Google did not invent the relevance-
           | sorted list, just [famously] improved relevancy.
        
       | somenewaccount1 wrote:
       | I installed the plugin and it instantly mucked up my chrome
       | profiles. It felt very disconcerting and I instantly removed it.
       | I imagine most users might not have multiple chrome profiles and
       | so wouldn't notice, but for me it was an instant stop. What are
       | you doing with profiles? Why does it need to be installed as a
       | plugin?
        
       | marban wrote:
       | You should strip the ?ref= from indexed Urls [for multiple
       | reasons].
        
         | kreeben wrote:
         | Why? Please enlighten me. Also, what else should be stripped
         | out?
        
       | dgut wrote:
       | Shameless plug: https://okeano.com is a search engine that
       | respects your privacy, doesn't require an extension and aims to
       | spend 80% of profits to purchase river interceptors and deploy
       | them to the most polluting rivers in the world.
       | 
       | We have !waves (similar to !bangs) and support natively domain
       | blocklisting.
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | https://www.ecosia.org is a similar project if you're a
         | landlubber, they spend the money planting trees.
        
       | jccalhoun wrote:
       | if they are pushing an extension then they are probably trying to
       | monetize by putting their affiliate code on the url when you go
       | to places that have affiliate programs like Amazon.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | You are right to be skeptical of extensions. There are a lot of
         | sketchy ones out there but...
         | 
         | Nope. We aren't doing that and not planning to.
         | 
         | All the extension does is change one setting. If you set your
         | search engine default to http://you.com manually in Chrome with
         | "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will not need the
         | extension... but for most people convenience wins and well...
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
        
           | dmitriid wrote:
           | > We aren't doing that and not planning to.
           | 
           | Yes. Yes you are. You've spent unspecified amounts of money
           | (likely millions if not tens of millions) on acquiring the
           | you.com domain. Investors will be very interested to get that
           | money back.
        
       | throw8383833jj wrote:
       | I for one am just glad there are more competitors entering this
       | space. Google search has been getting worse over the last several
       | years to the point where I can't find what I'm looking for with
       | non-technical searches. Google always tries to figure out my
       | intent, and in doing so, fails miserably 1/2 the time.
        
       | richardsocher wrote:
       | Hello All,
       | 
       | My name is Richard Socher, and I'm the founder of you.com, the
       | world's first open search engine platform that summarizes the web
       | for you. We launched our public beta today, and are excited to
       | share it with you.
       | 
       | If you're a developer, we have several "search-apps" such as
       | StackOverflow (with code snippets), W3Schools, MDN, Copilot-like
       | Code Completion, json checkers, and more. All of them geared to
       | help you code faster. Let us know if you have other app ideas for
       | how to make your coding life better.
       | 
       | We believe in superior privacy choices without losing
       | convenience. Our private mode is the most private experience - we
       | don't store your queries or track your clicks or share IP, etc.
       | And even in our personalized experience, we'll never sell your
       | data or follow you around the web and we'll never offer privacy-
       | invading targeted ads.
       | 
       | We wanted to create a search engine that delivers relevant
       | content, not ads or SEO'd pages, and do it in a whole new
       | interface that puts you in control through personalized
       | preferences. We hope you'll be able to search less and do more.
       | 
       | Looking forward to your feedback and will be here to answer any
       | questions.
       | 
       | Thanks! -RS
        
       | jccalhoun wrote:
       | I will give it credit for working on firefox with javascript
       | turned off.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Thanks. Trying to be as accessible and simple as possible and
         | still provide a cool new experience :)
        
         | lunch wrote:
         | I get a blank page in Firefox with JavaScript turned off :(
         | Content Security Policy: The page's settings blocked the
         | loading of a resource at inline ("script-src").       Loading
         | failed for the <script> with source "https://you.com/cdn-
         | cgi/scripts/7d0fa10a/cloudflare-static/rocket-loader.min.js".
        
       | nozepas wrote:
       | It does strike me as odd that is private but I need to install a
       | chrome extension to use it and there is a prominent 'Sign up'
       | button on the top right corner.
       | 
       | I am also struggling to understand why the need to install a
       | chrome extension to see search results. Feels like a lot of users
       | will get lost on this first funnel step.
        
       | helloguillecl wrote:
       | I generally don't like when technology gets itself in the way to
       | solve a problem. Why would you need the user to make your search
       | engine the default one before even trying it?
       | 
       | This is red flag at least for me, far from convenient and I doubt
       | that installing an extension can be justified by privacy.
       | 
       | If your search has better value to me than say, Google, why don't
       | let me make the decision of putting it as my default?
       | 
       | You're asking me _upfront_ to grant you privileges (access to
       | Chrome API 's that are otherwise not available to you) by
       | installing an extension? That is a no-go for many security minded
       | people.
       | 
       | Also: Opening an extension link after clicking on the "search"
       | input field looks pretty much like a dark pattern to me. This is
       | something to avoid when it comes to a friendly UX.
        
         | arcticfox wrote:
         | Incognito mode seems to work for testing FWIW
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | I'm really not sure what you are talking about. Go to you.com
         | and type a search query. No need to make anything the default.
         | No need to install an extension.
         | 
         | Edit: Ah, now I see. It's because I'm a Safari user. If you go
         | to you.com in Safari it works fine. However, if you go to it in
         | Chrome it does indeed work as you described, asking you to
         | install the extension and whatnot. My mistake.
        
           | cabalamat wrote:
           | It says on the front page "Add you.com to Chrome to get
           | started" which to my mind implies that in order to get
           | started you have to be using Chrome and add the extension to
           | it.
           | 
           | You don't have to, you can just use it as a web page, the
           | text is misleading and should be changed.
        
             | jayknight wrote:
             | I think that's only if you're using Chrome. I'm in firefox
             | and just did some searches like you'd do on any other
             | search engine. That's a really weird design choice
             | regardless.
        
           | asaq wrote:
           | I get "To see results and get the convenience of you.com,
           | you'll need to add the you.com Chrome extension"
        
       | flowerbreeze wrote:
       | Congratulations on the launch! I think am getting better results
       | than on any other engine I've tried using experimentally. Nice
       | and sneaky job ad too in the console.
       | 
       | As for some downsides I felt that:
       | 
       | 1. The page is too heavy for my everyday use. On my phone initial
       | load is 10 seconds, searches are 15 seconds. During that time the
       | screen is just blank, so at first try I thought it doesn't work
       | on mobile. It almost seems like it loads all the results at once,
       | summary, image, video etc?
       | 
       | 2. On desktop it's snappier, but still 3-4 seconds despite having
       | good connection/system.
       | 
       | 3. Skeletal loaders are everywhere. I know they are popular these
       | days, but for me searching multiple times in a row to narrow down
       | results started to feel a bit dizzying with them popping up each
       | time and swirling. Same thing bothers me on Qwant search engine
       | for example and is the main (although shallow) reason I don't use
       | it.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Is there any point in launching a search engine in 2021? Marc
       | Benioff thinks so_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29161545 - Nov 2021 (18
       | comments)
        
       | jasonpeacock wrote:
       | If it's free for users, then that usually means you're selling
       | user data to create income.
       | 
       | How is You making money without Ads and without selling user
       | data?
        
         | syncerr wrote:
         | This is the problem. When ads are your primary revenue stream,
         | you're up against facebook and google, who are both highly
         | efficient at turning marketing dollars into conversions.
         | 
         | How would you complete with this? Why would anyone spend 10x on
         | you to get the same conversions?
        
         | Invictus0 wrote:
         | Are you new to the whole startup thing? They aren't making
         | money, they're just burning VC cash.
        
         | RattleyCooper wrote:
         | Brave browser seems to have figured out a way to make money on
         | ads without sacrificing user data/privacy. If you opt in to
         | their ads they basically sync ad campaigns to your browser and
         | then use local browsing profiles that don't get sent to any
         | servers to decide which ads to show you. It all happens on your
         | computer and it doesn't send your profile to anybody, so the
         | only user data involved is "user looked at an ad, but we have
         | no idea who actually looked at it".
        
         | m-i-l wrote:
         | According to https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/you-
         | com-523e they have received $20M in funding, so as long as they
         | have a sensible burn rate, they could last for years before
         | having to think about how to make a profit. Although the
         | projects that don't have a plan at the outset always seem to
         | either turn bad or fail.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | To your point, this is why I would avoid them. Give me faith
           | that I won't see you end up monetizing/selling user data or
           | doing something dumb to your user base when that cash runs
           | out. Otherwise I'm inherently not going to trust you.
        
       | ulber wrote:
       | I found your pitch really interesting, I'd love to try it. I,
       | however, refuse to install an extension and change my default
       | search engine just to be allowed to type in a search query.
       | 
       | I'm sure you have some "growth hacking" reason for this that is
       | compelling to you. Maybe you hope that the slight annoyance of
       | switching back will outweigh the inevitable annoyances with a new
       | product like this.
       | 
       | It does come off as user hostile though - you're trying to badger
       | me to switch rather than selling me on the merits of you.com.
        
         | somenewaccount1 wrote:
         | yeah, i installed the extension and it immediately mucked with
         | my chrome profiles. thanks, but no thanks. glad i'm not the
         | only one that felt this way.
        
         | eikenberry wrote:
         | I'm confused. If you go to you.com there is a search field
         | right there just like every other search site. No extension is
         | needed to try it. Why do you say you aren't allowed to search
         | without the extension?
        
           | icelancer wrote:
           | Try it in Chrome. It blocks you after you try to search.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | I avoid Chrome whenever possible. It's a battery and
             | privacy killer. Search field worked fine in Safari.
        
               | icelancer wrote:
               | Well, that's fine, but all the issues being reported here
               | are due to Chrome users seeing the same thing - inability
               | to use You.com unless you install an even larger
               | potential privacy killer in the form of an extension.
               | Otherwise it refuses to let you search using the on page
               | bar.
        
           | version_five wrote:
           | Yeah, I've been playing with it all day, and this thread was
           | is only place i heard about an extension- it sounds like its
           | if you want to make it the default on chrome when you type
           | search terms into the navigation bar
           | 
           | It's also pretty telling that all of these complaints are
           | coming based on what appears to be a workaround for Google's
           | attempt to lock you into their search when you use their
           | browser.
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | That's right. It's tough competing with a 2tr$ monopoly :)
             | Glad you like it. Join our slack group if you want to give
             | more feedback :)
             | 
             | https://you-privatebeta.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-
             | vtrf...
        
             | Bilal_io wrote:
             | I tried it on Chrome and it blocked me. But worked fine on
             | Firefox.
        
         | vonnik wrote:
         | I've had access to You.com and I can attest that the initial
         | experience is good. The search results are on point, the layout
         | of those results is flexible and fresh.
         | 
         | In contrast, when I use an engine like Google, the ads often
         | cover the first five slots, or the totality of my phone's
         | screen...
        
         | jamestanderson wrote:
         | I might install an extension. I have the DuckDuckGo Privacy
         | extension for instance, and use DDG as my primary search
         | engine. But I use Firefox, and it doesn't seem like this
         | company provides a Firefox addon.
         | 
         | It's an interesting choice to launch a search engine, give
         | reasons for using it instead of Google, but also play into the
         | Google quasi-monopoly by not providing a Firefox addon.
         | Hopefully it's coming soon.
        
           | richardsocher wrote:
           | Yea, we'll definitely support more platforms, including
           | mobile soon. It's on the roadmap :)
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | PS: You can easily change your settings in Firefox manually
             | also: https://youdotcom.notion.site/Make-You-com-your-
             | default-sear...
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Yea... Requiring the extension for navbar searches was a tough
         | choice.
         | 
         | You actually can try it out in incognito mode and any other
         | browser. But we found that without the convenience of a navbar
         | search, most people won't give it a proper try either way.
         | 
         | I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
         | become one of the default options. We will implement an a/b
         | test and see if we can get rid of the requirement even earlier.
         | 
         | If you set your search engine default to https://you.com
         | manually in Chrome with "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will
         | not need the extension... but for most people convenience wins
         | and well...
         | 
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
         | 
         | You can find more details for every browser setup here:
         | https://youdotcom.notion.site/Make-You-com-your-default-sear...
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Is there a way for me to use it _without_ omnibar
           | integration? I 'd really prefer to leave my search engine as-
           | is...
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | yes, you can just go into incognito mode. we care a lot
             | about privacy so we didn't want to mess with that. it
             | should just work when you're in incognito mode. if you then
             | also go into private mode - you'll have the MOST privacy
             | preserving search experience that we know of, certainly
             | even better than DDG:
             | 
             | Here's our blog post about how we think about the privacy-
             | convenience tradeoff:
             | 
             | https://youdotcom.notion.site/Privacy-and-Data-Protection-
             | at...
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | That's indeed unfortunate, I hope you reconsider.
        
             | Arnavion wrote:
             | Type the URL manually? Your browser might even auto-URL-
             | encode the search terms for you so you don't have to bother
             | doing it yourself.
        
               | DrammBA wrote:
               | I tried, all roads lead me to the message prompting me to
               | install the extension.
        
               | djfdat wrote:
               | add &fromSearchBar=false to the end of the search, so the
               | search string looks like this:
               | 
               | https://you.com/search?q=%s&fromSearchBar=false
        
               | richardsocher wrote:
               | that's it. very easy if you're technical. of course, we
               | don't want to block our users. we are just trying to make
               | it convenient and easy to have navbar searches - we found
               | that if you're not in the navbar yngmi..
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | primitivesuave wrote:
         | I strongly second this. I immediately gave up on trying it out
         | once I realized I had to download something. Your KPIs should
         | be around how sticky your search features are, it seems like it
         | is currently based on download counts.
        
           | cududa wrote:
           | If they published the extension source that might be more
           | reasonable. I assume the extension is so a lot of heavy
           | lifting on hitting individual apps/ API's happens locally to
           | alleviate costs or rate limiting
        
           | richardsocher wrote:
           | Hey. Yea. We struggle with the extension -> navbar search
           | requirement also.
           | 
           | We have found that if you're not the default engine that is
           | easily accessible from the Navbar, you will not be able to
           | break the Google monopoly.
           | 
           | We also found that many people will just do a quick search
           | for "asd" or "weather" and then leave because those searches
           | aren't really differentiated (and just can't really be).
           | 
           | Our extension is 33kB and has no other features. It's easy to
           | see the source so you can see that it does nothing
           | interesting or sketchy. It changes the setting. You can
           | change that setting manually and get the same effect and
           | usage after. But most users don't know how to change a
           | setting and you got some large 2tr$ monopoly that doesn't
           | want you to change...
        
             | Matthias1 wrote:
             | In my opinion, the fact that all your extension does is
             | change the setting is worse, not better. It's purely a
             | user-hostile choice.
        
             | pedalpete wrote:
             | I agree with your sentiment about being the default engine
             | to break people free of google, but do you have evidence
             | that the browser extension is the way to get people to do
             | that?
             | 
             | On the other side, you have a search bar on the page, so
             | I'm not exactly sure what people are complaining about.
        
               | dwohnitmok wrote:
               | If you open it up in Chrome, then first off the main
               | search bar in the middle of the screen turns into a
               | button to install the extension.
               | 
               | There remains a search bar in the upper left hand corner
               | of the screen, but if you actually search, no search
               | results are given. Instead the result page is replaced by
               | a link to install the Chrome extension. So effectively,
               | as far as I can tell, on a normal Chrome browsing session
               | there is no way to actually use the search functionality
               | without installing the extension.
               | 
               | This does not seem to happen on other browsers or in
               | incognito mode.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | skinkestek wrote:
       | While this is a thing I'd very much like to try I make a point
       | out of not using Chrome && badgering everyone who tries to force
       | me to use it.
       | 
       | Had to use it the other day to verify if a particular bug at a
       | customer system was Firefox-specific (as usual it wasn't) but it
       | meant a four months streak or so was wasted :-/
       | 
       | So no, while this is really interesting it still has to be even
       | more interesting for me to allow that piece of modern spyware to
       | run on my machine.
       | 
       | (Some might think I'm to harsh here but my understanding is
       | Chrome is almost as much spyware as much as the famous Bonzibuddy
       | that we struggled with earlier this millenium, only somewhat less
       | buggy ;-)
        
         | swethmandava wrote:
         | You should be able to use you.com on other browsers - let us
         | know if you have issues! :)
        
           | skinkestek wrote:
           | Yes, it just confused me.
           | 
           | The big blue "install Chrome extension" got all my attention
           | and it also didn't help that the placeholder text in the
           | search field came off as decoration, but in the end I admit I
           | didn't read carefully.
        
         | ManBlanket wrote:
         | At least Bonzai Buddy was cute. Also I thought I was the only
         | weirdo who sorta kept track of my not-using-chrome streak. If
         | we met for lunch I'm sure everyone else at the table would find
         | themselves staring off into space as our conversation became
         | increasingly difficult to relate to.
        
           | eitland wrote:
           | If anyone else here has a not-using-chrome streak and work in
           | Oslo, Norway feel free to message me to get a free lunch so
           | we can try :-)
           | 
           | (Offer valid for the first three to answer ;-)
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Hey there, Yea...
         | 
         | You'd actually get rid of the biggest spyware - Google ;)
         | 
         | Our extension is 33kB and has not other function than changing
         | your default (and checking if the extension itself is
         | installed).
         | 
         | You actually can try it out in incognito mode and any other
         | browser. But we found that without the convenience of a navbar
         | search, most people won't give it a proper try either way.
         | 
         | I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
         | become one of the default options. We will implement an a/b
         | test and see if we can get rid of the requirement even earlier.
         | 
         | If you set your search engine default to https://you.com
         | manually in Chrome with "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will
         | not need the extension... but for most people convenience wins
         | and well...
         | 
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
         | 
         | You can find more details for every browser setup here:
         | https://youdotcom.notion.site/Make-You-com-your-default-sear...
        
           | skinkestek wrote:
           | > You'd actually get rid of the biggest spyware - Google ;)
           | 
           | Good point now that I realize that it works in other
           | browsers.
           | 
           | My initial impression was that 1) it only worked in Chrome
           | and 2) it required an extension to work even there.
           | 
           | I wish you luck and also think this is a good time to launch:
           | 
           | I feel I was an early adopter of Google and I have now more
           | or less left Google behind (it is now DuckDuckGo.com by
           | default, and even some search.marginalia.nu).
           | 
           | A few years ago Google was so amazing it was impossible to
           | compete with them but these days they are making it easy for
           | DDG which is kind of OK and search.marginalia.nu is coming up
           | as the small but delightful alternative :-)
        
       | LittlePeter wrote:
       | It is a terrible name... It takes several scans of a sentence to
       | determine if you refers to me or the search engine...
        
       | pid-1 wrote:
       | > But may have private ads I the future
       | 
       | So, in the long run, how is your app not becoming Google?
       | 
       | Anyone who makes money with ads has rational incentives to not
       | respect your user's time and privacy. That's even worse for
       | search engines.
       | 
       | I would gladly pay for search engines that have community curated
       | content, I want business that have incentives aligned with me as
       | a customer, free stuff with ads is horse shit.
        
       | splch wrote:
       | I don't like requiring a chrome extension to search, and giving a
       | 404 error on uninstall (https://you.com/chrome_uninstall_survey)
       | is suspicious. If the developers aren't checking links and
       | testing their product, then I don't want to use it.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Yea... Requiring the default was a tough choice.
         | 
         | You actually can try it out in incognito mode and any other
         | browser. But we found that without the convenience of a navbar
         | search, most people won't give it a proper try either way.
         | 
         | I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
         | become one of the default options.
         | 
         | If you set your search engine default to http://you.com
         | manually in Chrome with "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will
         | not need the extension... but for most people convenience wins
         | and well...
         | 
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
         | 
         | Regarding the uninstall error. We are waiting to get approval
         | from the Chrome store to update the extension.
        
           | gremlinsinc wrote:
           | Personally, I think 'know your market' might come into play,
           | at least having the options easily there to do it manually.
           | Many of us tech types would much rather configure chrome to
           | add the search engine, than rely on another extension.. I
           | already have too many, and sometimes I think they mess things
           | up, so less is better imho.
        
             | swethmandava wrote:
             | Thank you, we are updating the page based on your feedback
             | :) In the mean time, we have more details on alternatives
             | for you over here
             | 
             | https://www.notion.so/youdotcom/Setting-You-com-as-your-
             | defa...
        
           | Tyriar wrote:
           | Present the extension as an option then, not a requirement,
           | with instructions on how to add the search manually.
           | 
           | It looks promising but if you block access without the
           | extension, a portion of users like me are just not going to
           | give it a chance. Not just because it's inconvenient but I
           | rarely install extensions because it opens up the browser
           | more to potential bad actors when I want it as secure as
           | possible. I also don't want to change my browser settings
           | before trying and the fact you require an extension is just a
           | bad signal of what's to come.
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | Yea. That makes sense. I avoid extensions myself since many
             | of them are super sketch. This one literally changes just
             | one setting and you get the same results if you do it
             | manually. But most web users won't know how to make setting
             | changes.
             | 
             | We describe the steps for all the different browsers in the
             | first link of our FAQ:
             | 
             | https://youdotcom.notion.site/Make-You-com-your-default-
             | sear...
             | 
             | Full FAQ here: https://youdotcom.notion.site/FAQ-8c871d6c99
             | d84e02955fda772a...
        
               | Tyriar wrote:
               | > This one literally changes just one setting and you get
               | the same results if you do it manually
               | 
               | I just checked and this isn't actually true though, it
               | looks like it also installs a service worker that runs
               | some code in background.js. It sucks I needed to look at
               | the extension's contents to verify that and backs up why
               | I wouldn't want to install it in the first place.
               | 
               | My proposal seems win-win, you can even push the
               | extension hard in the search page if it's not installed
               | due to your concern, provided you allow it to be easily
               | and permanently dismissed.
        
               | bryanmccann wrote:
               | Hi Tyriar,
               | 
               | Just wanted to provide some more info on the background
               | service worker, though if you've pulled the code you've
               | probably already seen the same.
               | 
               | Right now that worker does two things. It redirects to a
               | survey if you uninstall the extension (going away in the
               | next update once it makes it through the webstore
               | review), and it allows detection of the installed
               | extension since its required in Chrome unless you search
               | from the url/navbar.
               | 
               | And just so there's full details on the restriction here
               | too:
               | 
               | We determine if the search is from the url/navbar only
               | through that fromSearchBar query parameter, so either
               | manually entering the url without that query param,
               | following links without that query param, or by setting
               | your default in your settings manually and searching from
               | the url/navbar will all work. It is just that search bar
               | on the page that gets disabled without the extension.
               | There's also no restriction right now on non-Chrome
               | browsers or in a Chrome Incognito Window.
               | 
               | Thanks for digging in, bringing that up for
               | clarification, and for your proposal!
        
               | jsnell wrote:
               | > This one literally changes just one setting and you get
               | the same results if you do it manually.
               | 
               | I don't think you understand: automatically changing even
               | one of my browser settings is you changing one setting
               | too many. It is signaling that your target market are
               | unsophisticated users whom you're trying to scam into
               | changing their browser defaults and not know how to
               | change back.
               | 
               | That's the exact opposite of your "built for devs"
               | marketing message. When your message and your actions
               | conflict, it's pretty obvious that you don't really
               | believe the message.
        
           | VRay wrote:
           | You went to the trouble of showing "To see results and get
           | the convenience of you.com, you'll need to add the you.com
           | Chrome extension" when you could have just showed me the ****
           | search results.
           | 
           | This isn't making it more convenient, bro. You(dot com) just
           | wasted my 10 seconds.
           | 
           | You're stabbing yourself in the leg in order to spite Google
        
         | boringg wrote:
         | You can try the search engine without installing it in Chrome.
         | Use incognito mode and put it in the search bar at the top.
         | Doesn't work when its not in incognito mode though(?)
        
       | marc1 wrote:
       | Why is a first and last name required to sign up? It is an odd
       | choice for a company that prides itself "superior privacy
       | choices"
        
       | zestyping wrote:
       | Just wondering, why did you choose a name that cannot be used as
       | a verb and is hard to pronounce unambiguously?
        
       | skadamat wrote:
       | If I could pay $5 or $10 (or heck $25) a month for a programmable
       | search engine, then I'm ready.
       | 
       | But competing with Google 90% on "their terms" seems super tough.
       | Yes the design is a little different and that's awesome that
       | You.com is experimenting, but I just wish I could pay for this.
        
         | chrisMyzel wrote:
         | How would a programmable search engine look like to you? Would
         | providing what you look for with a) a search query b) tagging
         | what you are looking for on screen on 3 results and c) getting
         | results at scale sent to
         | 
         | you be a programmable search engine? (then --> [1])
         | 
         | [1] https://get-sentinel.io
        
         | gremlinsinc wrote:
         | How would that look like exactly? Looking for side projects
         | that could change the world, and this looks like a good way to
         | disrupt search.
         | 
         | If I could marry true copilot with google with maybe some sort
         | of memory garden priority setting for things I come back to
         | often (code, packages, docs, etc)....that'd be kinda nice...
         | 
         | gpt3(like ) + search could be interesting but extremely costly
         | for compute, though might actually be a decent reason to build
         | something on blockchain (all users add compute, get paid for
         | the storage, and gpu usage, one big botnet just to handle
         | search).
         | 
         | Just thinking aloud about how one would presumably pull this
         | off.
         | 
         | Ideally a mind/brain search interface would be nice someday,
         | but the privacy concerns is cringy, but maybe something like
         | alexa that listens while I talk to myself and looks at what I'm
         | typing and gleans from that what I might need in terms of
         | looking up stuff when I'm stuck on a coding problem, or if I
         | were writing a novel, or some other creative endeavor.
         | 
         | Or imagine an ai that continually just monitors the screen, and
         | when I'm having trouble w/ a tool like learning Unity3d or some
         | graphics tool, it can glean from the screen I'm on what help I
         | need and suggest things...
         | 
         | I really wish we did have new cool search tools like these in
         | 2021... maybe by 2030 we will.
        
           | skadamat wrote:
           | > How would that look like exactly?
           | 
           | You pay for the search product but you're able to do a ton of
           | cool things that Google will likely never be incentivized to
           | do. Basically turn the open web into a platform that works
           | for you:
           | 
           | - Setup highly custom alerts when a webpage changes content
           | (e.g. ___ is now on sale)
           | 
           | - Broaden search to include things like my contacts, docs,
           | Wikipedia, etc. Ideally this is all done in a small little
           | local index
           | 
           | - Automatic visualization of the content graph (e.g. who
           | reported on __ first and who is just regurgitating primary
           | sources?)
        
         | new_guy wrote:
         | You can do that right now for free with Google (
         | https://programmablesearchengine.google.com/cse/create/new )
        
       | sam0x17 wrote:
       | > the world's first open search engine platform
       | 
       | Where can I find and download the source code?
        
       | pkamb wrote:
       | I've always wanted a search engine that searched mainly (only?)
       | Stack Overflow, Reddit, and a handful of other authentic sites.
       | 
       | One note: You.com seems to include Stack Overflow scrapers in the
       | results. Would be better with those removed. These two results go
       | the same content, one on SO and one scraped from it:
       | https://i.imgur.com/TwvDIiC.png
        
         | Aulig wrote:
         | I agree, I had that experience too. SO duplicates are bad but
         | official documentation pages of libraries would be very good,
         | so I guess it'll be a bit difficult to determine which pages
         | should be allowed as there will be quite a few domains.
        
       | otrahuevada wrote:
       | Looks pretty! And seems to understand my use of operators pretty
       | well too, which is great.
       | 
       | What does the extension even do tho? Site functionality seems
       | just fine as an unlogged, incognito user.
       | 
       | If it really just sets my default search engine, I'd personally
       | much prefer some cute explanation about how to set it on my
       | browser myself than install a thing that will run code on my own
       | laptop to do it? idk if that's actually common or not but this is
       | a personal preference of mine.
        
         | swethmandava wrote:
         | Hi - yes, it's setting your default engine. Feel free to follow
         | the steps here to do the same:
         | https://youdotcom.notion.site/Make-You-com-your-default-sear...
        
       | abetusk wrote:
       | You say that you don't store any information to ensure privacy
       | but this is essentially asking users to trust you. Why not build
       | trust into the technology from the outset? Or have I missed
       | something and that is what you've done? Barring that, what
       | actions do you intend to take to ensure data is kept private
       | (external audit, etc)?
       | 
       | You also say this is open source. I didn't look all that hard but
       | could you provide a link to the associated repositories and
       | mention what license it's under? Also, when you say "open
       | source", do you mean the code only or are you providing data to
       | the community as well?
       | 
       | Also, I'm not sure the claim "world's first open source engine
       | platform" is really accurate. I don't claim to have any big
       | insight into what the various "tiers" of search engine there are
       | (code, data, aggregation?) but I see at least one list that looks
       | to have many FOSS alternatives to Google search [0].
       | 
       | Could you go into what's novel about You.com compared to other
       | FOSS alternatives?
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/tycrek/degoogle#web-based-products
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | "You say that you don't store any information to ensure privacy
         | but this is essentially asking users to trust you. Why not
         | build trust into the technology from the outset?"
         | 
         | I am also working on a project where users can optionally self-
         | store their data (at the cost of making what I hope are useful
         | algorithms dumber). I'm sort of banking on the hope that 90% of
         | users won't care, and the ten percent that do care will
         | appreciate that option and become enthusiasts.
         | 
         | I'm curious what Richard's answer to the trust question is, but
         | also what you (@abetusk) mean by "build trust into the
         | technology by the outset"? Even when open sourcing everything,
         | there is the question of, "are you actually using that branch
         | on the servers?" I don't know how to answer that.
        
           | abetusk wrote:
           | > I'm curious what ... you ... mean by "build trust into the
           | technology by the outset"?
           | 
           | I'm not sure I could come up with a checklist that would take
           | all the considerations in mind, so it's an ill defined
           | question in some sense. For folks who market their product as
           | "secure" and "privacy conscious", I would hope they would
           | have thought about these questions and come up with a
           | solution. At the very least, I would hope they would be able
           | to list out their assumptions and limitations of whatever
           | solution they came up with.
           | 
           | To try and actually answer the question, though, I would
           | think something along the lines of queries that are Tor
           | enabled or have an option to allow for Tor connections
           | (without the need for Javascript). Maybe something that uses
           | distributed data/queries for decentralization and resiliency
           | against snooping or attacks on a central location?
           | 
           | It looks like You.com uses a chrome extension, so they should
           | have more control over what form the queries take. Connection
           | to the Tor network is presumably not out of the question.
           | 
           | I agree that knowing what code is running where is a hard
           | problem in general but besides being able to audit code
           | that's open source, the other leg of that is to be able to
           | stand up your own instance. There could be a way to provide
           | incentives for people to return "good" results by random
           | verification and/or user (transparent/frictionless/micro)
           | payments.
           | 
           | There are fancier systems like homomorphic encryption but I'm
           | not sure those are really ready for everyday use yet.
           | 
           | The amount of data is massive and any search service is going
           | to be competing with a corporation that has 20+ years of
           | domain knowledge and a compute infrastructure that is many
           | orders of magnitude larger than anything that's really
           | available, so I'm not sure there are any easy answers, which
           | is why I'm asking.
           | 
           | Maybe You.com is focusing on a more AI centric search
           | service, which is how they're trying to compete or
           | differentiate themselves? If so, then making that data
           | available (under a libre/free license) along with the code
           | would go a long way towards building good will and cold lead
           | to a path for a "trustless" community built search engine.
        
       | RattleyCooper wrote:
       | I like the concept but the desktop version makes me scroll
       | horizontally to look through results. I'd rather scroll
       | vertically on desktop, and come to think of it I'd probably
       | prefer vertical on mobile. Scrolling sideways like that is really
       | annoying.
        
       | ozcancikmaz wrote:
       | I can move up some certain websites so I see their results on
       | top. Also the ability to swipe the results is a great convenience
       | vs scrolling down. thank you
        
       | alangibson wrote:
       | I searched for 'Pouchdb full text search', saw the horizontal
       | scrolling cards then immediately switched back to Startpage.com.
       | I can't see how sorting through info with horizontal scroll could
       | ever be an improvement. It's bad enough on desktop, but most
       | searches happen in mobile where it's even more annoying.
        
       | nickstinemates wrote:
       | NSFW results seem blocked. Don't have an account, maybe that is a
       | requirement? Either way, bad.
        
       | LouisSayers wrote:
       | Wow, it's like a blast from the past on mobile - like some old
       | school search engine with loads of stuff on the screen, it's hard
       | to know where to look.
       | 
       | On the homepage I see some ex-salesforce big shot founded this...
       | 
       | I worked at a company for a month with an ex-bigshot Sales force
       | person who was basically a sociopath. Maybe it's not fair to
       | compare, but this gives me those same vibes.
        
       | marginalia_nu wrote:
       | Congratulations. I like the layout.
       | 
       | Although the page loads extremely slowly, I'm on a modern Ryzen
       | 3, on a 100 mbit connection and my computer is really struggling
       | to load the page. Like it takes nearly 5 seconds and I can't
       | imagine what is taking so long to present the search bar with no
       | search results.
        
       | butz wrote:
       | They _really_ tried to make search results look different from
       | competition. While I 'm all for experimentation, horizontal
       | scroll and huge overload of cards doesn't work for me.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
       | > we'll never sell your data or follow you around the web and
       | we'll never offer privacy-invading targeted ads.
       | 
       | What about non-privacy-invading targeted ads? I'm sure google and
       | facebook would both say that they don't "sell your data or...
       | offer privacy-invading targeted ads" so It seems like a pretty
       | weak promise.
        
       | random478101 wrote:
       | Some feedback:
       | 
       | - the rounded corners remind me of the 2000s, and they kind of
       | hurt my eyes; they take attention away from the text
       | 
       | - I search for some niche CS topics; all the links I see I've
       | seen on other search engines as well ...
       | 
       | - ... which kind of makes this "google with a different layout"
       | and some "categories", not terrible, but also not that different
       | 
       | Now here's a challenge: Do some smart on-the-fly abstractive
       | multi-document summarization and display a fluent mix of text,
       | images and videos on a topic. Like a report. That would be a game
       | changer, I'd think.
       | 
       | If someone can pull this off, that might be you, Richard :)
        
       | chrisMyzel wrote:
       | Hi Richard, lucky coincidence - we're launching something similar
       | in that regard today [1][2], in general we say "meeh" to search
       | engines (you did not hear me saying that) but I love to keep
       | watching your project from today on.
       | 
       | We're launching Sentinel, an A.I.based data aggregation tool that
       | does the searching for you and brings you back just results
       | (instead of websites). You could call it a "semantic web enabler
       | with a large language model instead of xml" at it's core - but
       | it's too hard to digest for all people off HN.
       | 
       | Chris
       | 
       | [1] https://get-sentinel.io/ [2]
       | https://medium.com/@get_sentinel/a-i-might-make-humans-happi...
        
         | VRay wrote:
         | Well, I tried to find a pancake recipe on "stovetop.app",
         | "you(dot)com", and "get-sentinel" and so far I'm 0/3 on recipes
         | and 3/3 on irritation for Nov. 9th HackerNews search engines
         | 
         | ..holey moley, I just found something that works! I bookmarked
         | a super weird search engine someone linked here a while back,
         | and it actually returned useful search results immediately:
         | https://search.marginalia.nu/search?query=pancake+recipe&pro...
         | 
         | that led straight to: http://online-
         | cookbook.com/goto/cook/rpage/000DDF , which is possibly the
         | best recipe site I've ever seen in my life. It's just an
         | ingredient list and a paragraph of text below it!
        
           | marginalia_nu wrote:
           | We shouldn't be too hard on these new search engines. My
           | search engine spent a fairly long time returning _comically_
           | irrelevant search results.
           | 
           | Building a search engine is easy enough. Getting it to return
           | good results is the 10% of the work that takes 90% of the
           | time.
        
           | chrisMyzel wrote:
           | You'll be able to get 100s of recipes sorted by whatever you
           | like to sort them after signing up for the waitlist at our
           | website (and wait a little :))...without clicking through
           | websites that is.
        
       | stuhlmueller wrote:
       | For web search, are you using the Bing API? If so, do you have
       | thoughts from the private beta on how it compares to Google -
       | where it does similarly/better, where it does worse?
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Great question: We are first ranking apps and then within apps
         | we have some of our own ranking but e.g. web results come from
         | Bing. We have found that when non-web-result-apps trigger in
         | the top 2, we are often as good or better than Google.
         | 
         | Web results by themselves are a mixed bag, which is why we
         | built out lots of custom apps for developers, e.g.
         | 
         | StackOverflow (with code snippets), W3Schools, MDN, Copilot-
         | like Code Completion, json checkers.
         | 
         | You can find the list of apps in our FAQ:
         | https://youdotcom.notion.site/FAQ-8c871d6c99d84e02955fda772a...
        
       | gergi wrote:
       | Beyond what others have mentioned about requiring the Chrome
       | extension, I would strongly recommend altering the language in
       | FAQ - "How do I make You.com my default search engine?"
       | 
       | It vaguely references "the monopoly" in ominous tones. This comes
       | across as petulant and distracting. Just focus on the
       | instructions to set it as the default and how to respond to
       | questions that try to change it back.
        
         | tata71 wrote:
         | PETULANT!, now I _have_! to check this shit out.
        
       | vdddv wrote:
       | "summarizes the web"?
        
       | axpy906 wrote:
       | Had no idea that Socher left SF.
        
       | noduerme wrote:
       | Question about a key UX decision: Why do all the search results
       | open in a new tab with target="_blank"? This is the only search
       | engine I can think of that has this behavior. I find it pesky
       | from a user's point of view. If I want new tabs I can command-
       | click the link.
       | 
       | As it is, the UI doesn't provide the user any way to navigate
       | away from You.com when opening a search result. I've always
       | viewed new-tab links to be a kind of "sneaky" way to inflate
       | engagement metrics, but I think it's particularly negative for
       | usability on a search engine.
       | 
       | [edit] Even odder, clicking the You logo in the upper-left corner
       | of the search results page opens the You.com homepage _in a new
       | tab_. What is the purpose of that?
        
         | rfxap wrote:
         | I can see it both ways. From what I've learned, Google does
         | open results in a new tab by default in some countries, and
         | they recently added the option to choose the new tab behavior.
         | Adding that as an option could be a way to solve it.
        
       | slipperlobster wrote:
       | I pulled up your main page on Firefox and just did a search for
       | "asd" - testing it out. Scrolling down a bit to images shows me
       | some definitely NSFW images. If the goal is to be used in the
       | workplace since you mention developer-focused "search-apps" then
       | this is a nonstarter for me. Just a heads up.
        
         | option_greek wrote:
         | Oops. I think its worse than NSFW. It seem to fetch some pics
         | of questionable age :(
        
           | richardsocher wrote:
           | I'll report it to the Bing image search team.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Oh shit! That's bad. That picture seems to have gotten through
         | all the SafeSearch:strict filters.
         | 
         | Sadly, the image search app comes from Bing, so every other
         | non-Google search engine has the same problem with that same
         | single image, e.g.
         | 
         | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=asd&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images
         | 
         | https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=asd&form=HDRSC2&first=1...
         | 
         | Even in the SafeSearch:strict mode.
         | 
         | I will report it them and I hope they'll fix it soon.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | The front page has multiple calls to action to install their
       | Chrome extension but fails to describe what the extension does or
       | why I need it to do a web search.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | It sets you.com as your default search engine. ... we thought
         | this was obvious but you're right. We should be more explicit
         | and clear about that! Thanks for the feedback.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | So why can't I do a simple search without setting it as my
           | default engine?
        
       | usui wrote:
       | Hi Richard, how does your organization achieve carbon neutrality?
       | What metrics are available, or how do you know it's accurate?
       | 
       | As a software engineer, this has never been a requirement of me,
       | but I want to start conscientiously working for a company that
       | prioritizes it. I have toyed with the idea of Raspberry Pis,
       | Starlink, and solar panels to host a carbon-neutral Kubernetes
       | cluster.
       | 
       | (P.S. I submitted an application, but regardless will be
       | interested to follow You.com for the upcoming years)
        
       | vdddv wrote:
       | "Some web, image, video, or news results are powered by
       | Microsoft" So the same as Ecosia, Duckduckgo and any alternative
       | search engines?
        
       | languagehacker wrote:
       | Wow, looks real cuil
        
       | dan-robertson wrote:
       | I had a go for a 'dev' related search. I just tried one trivial
       | thing.
       | 
       | I searched for 'jq modify value' as it's something I previously
       | found hard to find skimming the enormous man page. I got:
       | 
       | 1. A stack overflow question which implicitly answered the
       | question but was actually about someone wanting to modify a file
       | in-place.
       | 
       | 2. A blog post from Monsanto. I clicked on it and I was greeted
       | with a big model box that I didn't read.
       | 
       | 3. Something from w3 schools (which unlike stack overflow seems
       | to get first class treatment in the results) about css and
       | jquery.
       | 
       | 4. Some "generated code" that was totally crazy looking python
       | full of comments in Chinese.
       | 
       | 5. A video that looked like it might contain the answer
       | 
       | 6. A box asking me to sign into GitHub.
       | 
       | I clicked the G icon for Google and the first result was a stack
       | overflow question about how to modify a field with jq. The top
       | answer was sane but there were some weird comments on it (the
       | answer to the question in the You.com results had good
       | constructive comments). I didn't look at the later results which
       | is unfair as the first result from You.com also contained the
       | answer.
       | 
       | It seems to me that it must be extremely hard to break into this
       | space. Microsoft tried (including building entirely their own
       | indexes and suchlike) and, roughly speaking, failed despite often
       | producing high quality results that bettered Google. Any bad
       | results from an upstart send people back to Google. Bad results
       | from Google send them back to the search box to try again. I
       | can't blame them for wanting people to set the app as a chrome
       | default with extra extension-powered abilities.
       | 
       | Personally I also find it weird to be connecting 'private' search
       | with other accounts. I guess it is private+personalised but I'm
       | not sure I really want personalised.
       | 
       | Maybe things would be different for other queries.
        
       | radicalriddler wrote:
       | Just from a webdev perspective, please add titles to your links
       | and icons. I should be able to hover over those up and down
       | arrows and know they're for voting. I should be able to hover
       | links and see the full link text even it's clipped in the card.
       | 
       | These are basic accessibility things that any good web developer
       | should be adding in by default.
        
       | alvatar wrote:
       | Very cool! I'm gonna give it a chance for sometime as a default
       | instead of DuckDuckGo
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | srhngpr wrote:
       | If your search engine requires an extension to work and display
       | the results, it's a total non-starter. Cannot suggest this to any
       | non-HN crowd. Good luck.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Yea... Requiring the default was a tough choice.
         | 
         | You actually can try it out in incognito mode and any other
         | browser. But we found that without the convenience of a navbar
         | search, most people won't give it a proper try either way.
         | 
         | I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
         | become one of the default options.
         | 
         | If you set your search engine default to http://you.com
         | manually in Chrome with "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will
         | not need the extension... but for most people convenience wins
         | and well...
         | 
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
        
           | DevX101 wrote:
           | What's the unofficial requirements to become a default search
           | engine in the major browsers?
        
             | dmitriid wrote:
             | You contact the company and offer to pay them hundreds of
             | millions of dollars a year (see Google and Safari and
             | Firefox).
             | 
             | Smaller browsers (if they at all exist) will default to
             | Google because that's what users expect. Except Edge. Edge
             | will stick to Bing.
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | We don't even know. It's not made public anywhere :( Hence
             | our extension requirement for the time being.
             | 
             | At least Chromium-based browsers have 5 second extension
             | install/uninstall options whereas in Safari it's several
             | minutes and so many clicks, we didn't even bother trying to
             | build the extension.
        
           | srhngpr wrote:
           | I get that and appreciate that this was a tough choice, but
           | the alternative you're proposing (1) requires several more
           | clicks, (2) expects the end user to trust an extension that
           | is unknown to them at the onset, and (3) does not provide an
           | intuitive way for the average user to know they can use
           | incognito to try it out.
           | 
           | You have an extremely memorable URL and in my view, the
           | quality and accuracy of the results should naturally help
           | spread the word for you if you do indeed provide a compelling
           | alternative.
           | 
           | I'm sorry, I just don't buy your argument about "monopoly and
           | controlling the browser" when you don't require an extension
           | for those using Firefox, Edge, etc. - yet you _hope_ that
           | Google will still add you to the default list of search
           | engines.
        
           | icelancer wrote:
           | >> It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
           | browser too?
           | 
           | So the idea was to force people using Chromium/Chrome to
           | install an extension, driving off a huge percentage of power
           | users with the hopes that the every day person (who couldn't
           | even tell you what search engine they use) will adopt the
           | extension without questioning it?
           | 
           | I don't think this is a tough choice. I think it was one you
           | didn't think through at all.
        
         | alex_smart wrote:
         | You can remove "&fromSearchBar=true" from the address and it
         | will show the results.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ManBlanket wrote:
           | ... Or you can just use Firefox. I'm not kidding. ><
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | Or you can just use Google and not bother with any of this
        
       | not2b wrote:
       | Nope. Not if there's no way to even try it out without installing
       | an extension.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | I get one experience in Incognito mode, a completely different
       | one in normal mode. They tell you to install a Chrome ext to use
       | it when you can just do so without it in incognito mode. Removing
       | the ext also takes you to a 404 page that seems suspect.
       | 
       | Already playing tricks on users at launch, at least it took
       | Google a decade to remove their "don't be evil."
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Hi Soheil.
         | 
         | Yea... Requiring the default was a tough choice. You actually
         | can try it out in incognito mode and any other browser. We
         | didn't want to mess with privacy in incognito mode but just
         | found that without the convenience of a navbar search it's hard
         | to break many years of a monopoly dominating search. I hope we
         | can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we become one of
         | the default options.
         | 
         | But as you found out, installing and uninstalling takes only a
         | few seconds.
         | 
         | Regarding the uninstall bug... not sure why you think that bug
         | is an "evil" "trick" :) We are just in beta and still have to
         | iron things out. We are waiting to get approval from the Chrome
         | store and will fix that bug soon.
        
       | abalaji wrote:
       | Here's a comparison between the main search engines:
       | 
       | - https://you.com/search?q=python%20install%20requirements
       | 
       | - https://www.google.com/search?q=python+install+requirements
       | 
       | - https://www.bing.com/search?q=python+install+requirements
       | 
       | Code complete seems like it could be a killer feature, but
       | doesn't seem to work in the above case, whereas it does work in
       | the OpenAI Codex model:
       | 
       | - https://i.imgur.com/0xXdip3.png
        
         | aetherspawn wrote:
         | The You.com one won't load for me. I guess they're getting
         | pounded.
        
       | gremlinsinc wrote:
       | How much was that domain name? That's like prime real estate...
       | that alone is like a billion dollar domain.
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | > Benioff's involvement with the startup includes the transfer
         | of the You.com domain name, which he has owned since the 1990s.
         | Neither he nor the startup would comment on the terms of the
         | URL exchange, and it was not clear whether the transfer formed
         | part of the overall investment. Beyond Benioff's TIME Ventures,
         | other investors include Breyer Capital, Sound Ventures and Day
         | One Ventures.
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/technology/salesforce-ceo-benioff-in...
        
         | hmate9 wrote:
         | It's a little bit annoying because "y" or "yo" or "you" will
         | always autocomplete to youtube for me.
        
           | marban wrote:
           | If ...tube is the first suggestion, you're still in a good
           | position
        
             | Invictus0 wrote:
             | Underrated comment. If You.com ever takes off, there are
             | going to be many, many embarrassing accidental
             | autocompletions to youporn.com.
        
           | BitwiseFool wrote:
           | Does anyone know how browsers decide which to auto-suggest
           | first? Is it merely a function of which domain you've visited
           | the most often?
        
             | akaij wrote:
             | Firefox uses Frecency: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Places.fre
             | cency.%28visit_type%29Vi...
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | For some reason whenever I try to go to the New York Times
           | site from my phone the browser autocompletes to the HN URL.
           | So it's really Safari's fault that I'm here so often...
        
       | FinanceAnon wrote:
       | Why do I have to install a Chrome extension to search, while I
       | don't need one on Mozilla?
        
       | rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
       | Requiring a plugin to use a search engine is the dumbest thing I
       | have seen in a while. It is insane. How did anyone think this was
       | a good idea? How was this funded? This creepy and weird!
       | 
       | I was frustrated when this popup appeared and will never use
       | this. Its left negative feelings, I will strongly resist you dot
       | com forever.
        
       | jimkleiber wrote:
       | After just seeing a post for a new service called Gallery and
       | thinking of how annoyed I was at Facebook taking over the word
       | meta and Trump taking over the verb to trump, part of me doesn't
       | want this platform to succeed only because of its name. Someone
       | below typed "I heard about 'you'" and it just made me realize how
       | frustrated I am that so many tech companies seem to be
       | repurposing more and more core words into their brand names. I
       | guess Apple and Amazon have been doing it for a while.
       | 
       | Anyone know why this is happening, also feel annoyed by this, and
       | know if there's any end in sight?
        
       | option_greek wrote:
       | I did a few quick searches on differing topics and I must say the
       | relevancy is almost on par with Google. DDG doesn't even come
       | close: especially for typeahead suggestions. Only weird thing is
       | that it doesn't feel fast - may be due to whole HN doing a stress
       | test right now.
       | 
       | It will be nice to default to Web based on previous searches. the
       | default all tab takes forever to load results probably due to
       | images and videos hogging the same page.
       | 
       | It is mentioned as open search engine: what does that mean ? is
       | it open index/api is open or fake open like openai ?
       | 
       | >> we'll never sell your data or follow you around the web and
       | we'll never offer privacy-invading targeted ads.
       | 
       | I don't think the above will age well in search
        
       | keb_ wrote:
       | A search engine that requires JavaScript to use is an automatic
       | no-go for me. Still, I commend the effort here.
        
       | nothrowaways wrote:
       | Looks interesting! The interface is intuitive with diverse and
       | useful results!
       | 
       | Well done guys.
        
       | nepalvibes wrote:
       | I heard about "you" from one of my friends and wanted to give it
       | a try and it forced me to install chrome plugin. This is a lot of
       | friction for me to try a new search engine. Not sure why you'd
       | force your user to install something just to give it a try.
        
         | hundchenkatze wrote:
         | I was able to use it without installing anything.
        
           | nepalvibes wrote:
           | I still get this unless I try it in incognito.
        
           | icelancer wrote:
           | I am not. I get the blocking message after performing the
           | search.
           | 
           | Not a great first impression for the Hacker News crowd.
        
         | mthoms wrote:
         | You don't have to use the plugin, just search at the top of the
         | page.
         | 
         | The text around the plugin is misleading. Strike 1 IMHO.
        
           | globalise83 wrote:
           | On Chrome desktop I just see a blocker message: "To see
           | results and get the convenience of you.com, you'll need to
           | add the you.com Chrome extension"
        
             | cabalamat wrote:
             | I'm using Firefox and don't get that message. Obviously if
             | you do get it on Chrome, that's a bad user experience and
             | needs to be changed.
        
             | mthoms wrote:
             | Wow, you're right. Searching works fine in Safari (desktop)
             | but requires a plugin when you visit the same page in
             | Chrome.
             | 
             | I want to like this, but this move seems like just another
             | scummy "growth hack".
        
           | alfonsodev wrote:
           | I think they know there is more chances you come back to
           | you.com if you are reminded by the extension icon.
        
           | crummy wrote:
           | When I click the search bar at the top of the page it takes
           | me to the plugin install page.
        
             | nabakin wrote:
             | On mobile I'm able to search no problem. I guess that makes
             | sense though because Chrome extensions on mobile aren't a
             | thing.
        
               | richardsocher wrote:
               | Yea. It's not like we're tryin to block users :) We just
               | found that without the convenience of a navbar search -
               | you're ngmi (not gonna make it) as a search engine.
               | 
               | We hope we can drop all restrictions in the future.
        
               | shkkmo wrote:
               | This sort of attitude that prioritizes your own growth
               | over the experience of your customers does not bode well
               | for a company that is trying to sell itself as committed
               | to user privacy.
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | Yea... Requiring the default was a tough choice.
         | 
         | You actually can try it out in incognito mode and any other
         | non-Chromium browser. But we found that without the convenience
         | of a navbar search, most people won't give it a proper try
         | either way.
         | 
         | I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
         | become one of the default options.
         | 
         | If you set your search engine default to http://you.com
         | manually in Chrome with "https://you.com/search?q=%s" you will
         | not need the extension... but for most people convenience wins
         | and well...
         | 
         | It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
         | browser too?
        
           | globalise83 wrote:
           | It seems to me like becoming a default search option is
           | something you.com should work on (and should be much easier)
           | once you are already really successful, but blocking instant
           | try-out of search on the most popular browser is going to
           | prevent you.com from achieving the user numbers needed to
           | achieve that. I have literally never installed a Chrome
           | extension and never will, so I guess I will never find out
           | what improvements to the search results you can offer
           | compared to other search engines.
        
           | afandian wrote:
           | I don't use Chrome, I use Firefox. It was confusing for it to
           | ask me to add an extension to Chrome.
        
             | richardsocher wrote:
             | Oh. That's odd. It shouldn't ask you for the Chrome install
             | if you're on Firefox. We can't reproduce that bug. What
             | version of FF are you on?
        
               | skinkestek wrote:
               | Happens for me too, Firefox on iOS.
               | 
               | Edit: it badgers me to install it in Chrome even in
               | mobile Safari.
               | 
               | Edit 2: seems there is a search box on top of the page.
               | It works but I didn't notice it initially because
               | 
               | - the page was so intensely focused on getting me to
               | install a Chrome extension (both in Firefox on iOS and
               | Safari on iOS)
               | 
               | - and the placeholder text ("you.com")looked like a
               | decoration initially (try something like "type here" or
               | something)
        
               | nickstinemates wrote:
               | Same happens here. Normal search works fine though (using
               | top nav bar)
        
               | jamestanderson wrote:
               | Same here on Firefox 94.0.1 on MacOS.
               | 
               | I also have privacy.resistFingerprinting enabled, maybe
               | the other commenter does too, and that might muck with
               | things.
               | 
               | Just tested and my reported user-agent is: "Mozilla/5.0
               | (Windows NT 10.0; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0"
        
           | mgcross wrote:
           | Ok, after trying incognito, I do like it, but I'm not ready
           | to switch my default from DDG yet. Maybe on the non-incognito
           | chrome results page you could include a note that your search
           | can be tested from incognito along with the prompt to install
           | the extension?
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | This seemed interesting to me, but requiring an installation
           | is a no-go, especially for privacy-minded software. I can
           | tell you right now that most privacy-conscious individuals
           | won't give you a proper chance if this is how you treat the
           | onboarding process, regardless of how David V. Goliath the
           | situation seems.
           | 
           | > I hope we can drop this requirement even in Chrome when we
           | become one of the default options.
           | 
           | I don't mean to be pessimistic, but the chances of 'you.com'
           | appearing in my search engine choices is slim to none. You're
           | welcome to drag me through the mud when you prove me wrong,
           | but hedging your entire bet on getting added as a default
           | option is a suicide pact for any software, _particularly_
           | ones that are competing with bigger players.
           | 
           | > It's tough to go up against a monopoly that controls the
           | browser too?
           | 
           | It's tough doing _anything_ on someone else 's platform,
           | monopoly or not. This just reads as a vague dismissal of a
           | frankly serious problem. I recommend taking notes out of
           | DuckDuckGo's book, where they took _proactive measures_ to
           | accommodate for security-minded individuals. The fact that
           | they let you connect without Javascript enabled is a subtle
           | nod to their power users, who might be more concerned with
           | that stuff. On the other side of the spectrum is you.com,
           | which requires me to install an extension while promising
           | that it 's 'more secure' in the end. The optics are not good,
           | particularly for the people who know what they're looking
           | for.
        
           | vngzs wrote:
           | I installed the extension, tested a search, then switched my
           | default back to another search engine. Future searches on
           | you.com failed because I did not have the extension installed
           | - even though I did.
           | 
           | I uninstalled the extension. I don't want to use tools that
           | give me less power over my browsing experience, arbitrarily
           | breaking although I'd done what was explicitly documented. I
           | want tools that give me _more_ power.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | thomasfromcdnjs wrote:
       | I gave it a go and actually kinda liked it. Will play around
       | more...
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | Do you use GPT-3 to summarize?
        
         | richardsocher wrote:
         | We use it to generate code in the code completion app. But
         | sadly, with our values of trust facts and kindness, we cannot
         | rely on large language models to completely generate the
         | results as they often make up facts.
        
       | open-paren wrote:
       | I've used the you.com beta for about a month, and I've switched
       | back to DuckDuckGo because the results were too slow to show up
       | and the elements on the results page jumped around too much.
       | Superficial, I know, but I just didn't want to wait for all the
       | extra answers to pop up.
        
       | simonebrunozzi wrote:
       | Great.
       | 
       | I tried to build an open-source search engine back in 2007. I
       | utterly failed, but it was a great experience.
       | 
       | I also tried to launch a Chrome extension to summarize
       | interesting web pages [0].
       | 
       | I wish you luck! Ping me if you'd like to chat ($HN_Username at
       | gmail)
       | 
       | [0]: https://github.com/simonebrunozzi/MNMN/tree/master/Weekly-
       | Su...
        
       | BitwiseFool wrote:
       | I'd like to know more about the "built for devs" concept you are
       | presenting to us. What does that mean to you?
       | 
       | For me personally, I rarely perform site:github.com or
       | site:stackoverflow.com searches in my browser's default search
       | engine. I typically just enter a few keywords and try to make
       | sense of what I find.
       | 
       | When I personally think of a search engine built for devs, I
       | think of one that parses queries differently from the natural
       | language processing that seems to be all the rage these days. For
       | instance, when I search "?. C#" I want to know what this operator
       | actually is. Instead, the algorithm omits the ?. and just returns
       | the most generic results relating to C#.
       | https://you.com/search?q=%3F.%20C%23&fromSearchBar=true This is
       | true even when I put the "?." in quotes. One of the results is
       | titled "Null coalescing operator" from Wikipedia, but this is
       | actually misleading since ?. is actually the null-conditional
       | operator. The information _is_ there but it is not easy to find.
       | 
       | The other item on my wishlist for a dev-centric search engine is
       | to be able to persist the main language(s) I am trying to search
       | about. Its mildly tedious to type C3 and then my keywords (.....
       | dammit, C#, this happens ALL the time), in each query to narrow
       | things down and not get javascript results.
        
         | the_jeremy wrote:
         | SymbolHound (http://symbolhound.com/) is the only one I've
         | found that doesn't ignore special characters.
        
       | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
       | Hard pass. Not installing a CE to test this out. Not changing my
       | default search engine straight away. Not convinced based on what
       | I see there is value added here. Fix those things and I will give
       | it whirl.
        
         | swethmandava wrote:
         | thanks for your feedback! Requiring the default was a tough
         | choice for us. Totally hear you on your distrust of extensions.
         | If you still want to try out our product, we have more details
         | on alternatives for you over here
         | 
         | https://www.notion.so/youdotcom/Setting-You-com-as-your-defa...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kmarc wrote:
       | If I recall correctly, Google was very successful at the
       | beginning because of their instant results coming back in a dead
       | simple list of links and some details.
       | 
       | When I searched on you.com, I got these ugly pulsating
       | placeholders, and then could smell the oily engines in my device
       | whirring up to send that damn heavy AJAX query to let me wait
       | another 2 seconds to get something displayed.
       | 
       | I like the idea, and wish a lot of luck to this project, but the
       | UX is just bad, sorry.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-09 23:00 UTC)