[HN Gopher] Node-RED: How an open-source tool is establishing it...
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Node-RED: How an open-source tool is establishing itself in
Industrial IoT
Author : JeremyTheo
Score : 54 points
Date : 2021-11-09 16:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (docs.umh.app)
(TXT) w3m dump (docs.umh.app)
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| I tried to use node red a few times to automate my devices at
| home. It is limited in what it can do but the ui is ok. This
| until you want to change something, or duplicate, or arrange
| several items - the code is not really editable.
|
| I understand that the target population are not programmers, but
| even using the built in Hole Assistant automation is better.
|
| Of course moving to pyscript or appdaemon opens new world.
|
| To be clear: I am not trying to be dismissive of node red users,
| it is just that one will quickly hit its limitations for anything
| more fancy.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Using subflows and such I've not had any issues with even
| relatively complex flows, though I would recommend using the
| unsafe code execution block for any macros, since then you have
| the full power of node.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| My experience is similar: if you're already a programmer,
| you'll hate it. Almost any language will be better suited.
| gerdesj wrote:
| I've just switched to one of my pinned Home Assistant tabs. One
| of my Node-RED flows has a function node with a wodge of
| JavaScript in it. The editor JS is simple but has colour syntax
| highlighting. I'm using it to send settings to some quite
| complicated Zwave devices. There is a Zwave set node that does
| the complex stuff that I really don't need to worry about, I
| just pump settings into it.
|
| Another flow I did unlocks an AD account via LDAP! I used a
| function node to build up a quite horrific looking command line
| that is passed through a ssh connection to the host system (HA
| and NR are containers) to run against AD.
|
| You can do an awful lot with NR out of the box and with all the
| contrib stuff it rapidly becomes even more impressive. Just
| enough programming for me. I write a program or two as needed
| and no more and it doesn't detract from the flow thing either.
| JeremyTheo wrote:
| Fully agreed!
|
| Being a programer I really dislike using Node-RED for
| complicated calculations as you land up pretty quick into the
| limitations of "low-code" like version control (some is
| available in Node-RED but not that good), documentation, other
| best-practices.
|
| However, for smaller stuff or connecting APIs this is
| absolutely great as it saves a lot of time around boilerplate
| stuff like package management, setting up a repo or Docker. We
| only do this smaller stuff also known as "customer specific
| configuration" and let our proper programs handle the rest.
|
| Main target group is, like you said similarly, mechanical or
| industrial engineers with very limited IT knowledge, but still
| huge process expertise.
| rcarmo wrote:
| I've had the opposite experience: the newer versions are very
| flexible, reliable, and miles better than Home Assistant for my
| setup (which is Homekit-based with Node-RED doing dashboards
| and device characteristics handling).
|
| And it even supports git now via the projects feature, which I
| am using to build an RSS feed fetcher that does translations
| and aggregations for 200+ feeds.
|
| - https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2019/01/13/1900 (home
| automation stuff, before I adopted projects and Git versioning.
| Has most of the links to previous applications).
| mikewarot wrote:
| Is there any supported way to integrate a data-diode into this?
| This would allow far more secure remote monitoring of systems by
| exfiltrating real time data through the data-diode, and having
| certainty that you don't risk of control infiltration.
| JeremyTheo wrote:
| Very interesting idea! Thank you!
|
| I would not move it between Node-RED and the PLC but I see
| other applications of a data diode. We usually create a very
| small DMZ around each machine and a data diode can additionally
| protect it (see also a very old article from us:
| https://docs.umh.app/docs/getting-started/usage-in-productio...
| ) You could place the data diode as a "firewall" between the
| internet and the edge PC.
| sigmonsays wrote:
| TLDR: Use Node-Red as a dashboard reporting tool but do not use
| it for its anything critical.
| apohn wrote:
| In my last job I used to work with a major vendor (in
| industrial manufacturing) who provided a Cloud+Edge Integration
| solution for factories. The Edge portion was a Industrial PC
| with a software layer that basically allowed you to deploy
| stuff developed in the "Cloud" to the Edge PC.
|
| One of the OOTB things on the Edge stack was a customized
| version Node-Red. It was one of the most popular components for
| customers and used a lot in factories.
|
| Yes, it's true that you don't want to use it as the thing that
| connects your industrial controller/PLC to a Python script
| (running in a container on the Edge PC) that decides if a
| machine should be turned off for safety reasons.
|
| But there are a lot of use cases if you think about it as a
| low/no-code development environment for streaming data. It
| provides a way to automate a lot of boring manual processes
| around data. Being able to use Javascript code snippets also
| means a lot of developers have an easy way to deploy small
| blocks of codes. It's easier to learn JavaScript than trying to
| figure out something with a PLC or a SCADA system.
|
| The dashboarding was also pretty nice - especially compared to
| the Dashboards you'd see on a machine HMI (basically a
| touchscreen that controls a machine).
|
| It wasn't perfect of course. If your sensor data is streaming
| at 1Khz you'd need to use something else. But the data from a
| lot of factories is a lot more mundane than that. And a lot of
| fancy factories have mundane things they need done simply and
| quickly.
| skittleson wrote:
| I've used it for critical ops successfully over the course of a
| few years. It's not perfect but it's also not a toy app
| anymore.
| iamwil wrote:
| Is this based on personal experience? Because the article says
| that it's production ready and many industrial environments.
| nix0n wrote:
| The article says, near the bottom,
|
| > However, we strongly recommend NOT using it to intervene in
| the production process, e.g., process control or ensuring
| safety mechanisms
| kevinmgranger wrote:
| Ah, so it's the technical world's definition of
| "production" but not the manufacturing world's definition
| of "production"
| monkmartinez wrote:
| Well, yeah... I am not going to wire my e-stop to a node
| red process/board. Somethings need to be on proper PLC
| controls as the article states.
| dang wrote:
| Recent and related:
|
| _Node-RED: Low-code programming for event-driven applications_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985268 - Oct 2021 (90
| comments)
|
| Prior related threads:
|
| _Node-RED 2.0_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27892226 -
| July 2021 (62 comments)
|
| _How-to normalize home volume levels with Node-RED_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23349902 - May 2020 (28
| comments)
|
| _Node-Red - Flow-Based Programming for the Internet of Things_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18859019 - Jan 2019 (77
| comments)
|
| _Replacing a Pool and Spa Controller with Raspberry Pi, Arduino,
| Node Red_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18142335 - Oct
| 2018 (3 comments)
|
| _Node-RED: A visual tool for wiring the Internet of Things_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13495156 - Jan 2017 (6
| comments)
|
| _Node-Red, a tool for wiring together hardware devices, APIs and
| online services_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8419984 -
| Oct 2014 (8 comments)
|
| _Node-RED_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8310536 - Sept
| 2014 (1 comment)
|
| _Node-red, a visual tool for wiring the Internet of Things_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8217664 - Aug 2014 (3
| comments)
|
| _Programming the Missing Links in the Internet of Things_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6459564 - Sept 2013 (1
| comment)
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