[HN Gopher] Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ
        
       Author : mikeevans
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2021-11-09 16:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.twitter.com)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Past related threads:
       | 
       |  _Twitter confirms Twitter Blue_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27316115 - May 2021 (722
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Twitter 's subscription service might cost $3 per month_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27168200 - May 2021 (66
       | comments)
        
       | barnabee wrote:
       | I pay for YouTube Premium and spend a lot more time on Twitter.
       | I'd pay the same for ad free Twitter.
       | 
       | As soon as Twitter Blue comes to the UK I'd pay for it even
       | without it being totally ad free (while complaining about that).
       | Between Tweetbot and comprehensive ad blocking I never see ads
       | anyway and I'm happy to pay for something I get that much value
       | from.
        
       | dillondoyle wrote:
       | Is the WaPo subscription full or is it more like Apple News where
       | you only get access to a couple headline articles and have to pay
       | even more beyond news+ for full access?
       | 
       | just looked it shows me $5.99 a month for wapo add on.
       | 
       | If so might be worth it for me even though I don't use twitter.
       | The rest I think are mostly available on news+
       | 
       | Full bloomberg on apple news is $34.99 a month, though they do
       | have more free articles than WaPo it seems and at least I can
       | understand the value and niche of financial news not really worth
       | reading about unless you're in finance.
       | 
       | I don't think NyTimes is even an option anymore. They make enough
       | profit on their walled garden seems they won't ever participate
       | in this stuff again.
       | 
       | The Apple News subscription I already pay for seems to be more
       | for magazines. It used to have everything.
        
       | gok wrote:
       | Before anyone else waste their money on this: it doesn't make
       | Twitter ad-free.
        
       | oxymoran wrote:
       | Just what the world needs, people Twittering harder.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | _The Washington Post, L.A. Times, USA TODAY, The Atlantic,
       | Reuters, The Daily Beast, Rolling Stone, BuzzFeed, Insider and
       | The Hollywood Reporter._
       | 
       | Seems like a good way to push a ideological/political agenda,
       | too.
        
         | ushakov wrote:
         | their TA primarily uses Twitter
        
       | FalconSensei wrote:
       | Does it also makes my likes private, and stop showing me
       | suggested profiles, other people's likes, etc?
        
         | nvr219 wrote:
         | No you need to get Twitter Blue for Enterprise for that
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Can they let us pay to remove all sponsored tweets? That's all I
       | want. I'd gladly pay $10/mo.
       | 
       | YouTube Red is the best product experience, and it's something I
       | would pay to have elsewhere.
       | 
       | I hate ads. I never buy products from ads. They just distract me.
       | 
       | I'd pay $1000/yr for a completely ad-free Google. (No search
       | result ads, no AMP, no "McDonalds" in Google Maps, ...)
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | Ad-free twitter doesn't seem like good value to me, but a
         | completely ad-free Google sounds like a winner. I'm slightly
         | terrified to hear what my net value to advertisers is to defray
         | that lost profit for goog.
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | Never? Or never actively. i.e. do you unknowingly buy a product
         | at a later date because you at one point saw an ad for it.
        
           | ChefboyOG wrote:
           | The "unknowingly" caveat makes that one a bit difficult to
           | answer.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | PascLeRasc wrote:
       | This is actually something that seems pretty useful to me, and
       | it's not outrageously priced. Good job.
        
       | Andrex wrote:
       | This idea would probably be a headache to implement, but has any
       | service tried something like charging $1/$x for specific
       | features? Feels like Twitter would be the prime candidate.
       | 
       | Ad-free article access could be $1.
       | 
       | """Editing""" tweets could be $1.
       | 
       | Ad-free Twitter could be $4-5 (as that's what Twitter makes per
       | US user per month via ads).
       | 
       | Etc.
       | 
       | IMO Patreon has already broken through the mental mode of "sign
       | up for multiple sub-$5 things and have a single bill at the end
       | of the month."
       | 
       | Any big services out there doing a-la-carte premium features?
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | strava (exercise tracking app) was doing it for a while, they
         | had safety/training/metrics premium bundles each centered
         | around a single standout feature at somewhere between $1 and $2
         | each, but have since gone back to a single premium tier.
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | This seems eerily similar to what people feared could happen to
       | the web in the absence of net neutrality, only with the role of
       | the ISP this time replaced by a platform content referrer. A
       | multi-tiered web: premium lanes for corporate sponsors with money
       | changing hands.
       | 
       | > _" On iOS and desktop, Twitter Blue members will enjoy a fast-
       | loading, ad-free reading experience when they visit many of their
       | favorite news sites available in the US from Twitter, such as The
       | Washington Post, L.A. Times, USA TODAY, The Atlantic, Reuters,
       | The Daily Beast, Rolling Stone, BuzzFeed, Insider and The
       | Hollywood Reporter."_
        
         | bri3d wrote:
         | I don't think the fear with network neutrality was ever the
         | idea of a content aggregator buying content on behalf of a
         | subscriber, was it?
         | 
         | My understanding of the argument with network neutrality was
         | that the combination of the network provider as a natural
         | monopoly and the network provider's ability to render content
         | inaccessible would result in a fragmented Internet - you can
         | only run so many wires to a house, and if Provider B cut off
         | Content A, you might not get Content A anymore.
         | 
         | I don't see how this is the same thing.
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | It's qualitatively different, but there's some similarities
           | in appearances. The end-user viewpoint, if this trend grows,
           | is that the majority of the internet could present as a set
           | of subscription packages -- the more you buy, the more of the
           | internet you can access, and at higher service levels.
           | Because of these new financial incentives, previously open,
           | ad-supported websites will shift to becoming closed,
           | subscription services: as the friction for end-users to
           | subscribe to things goes down (because of federation*), this
           | becomes more common. The open web goes dark. Conversely,
           | since this is also an income source for the
           | platforms/referrers, they'll want to boost referrals to
           | partnering companies higher than non-partners -- tiered
           | service. It's true this isn't the hard severity of an ISP
           | throttling, or cutting off, non-partnering websites; but it's
           | a soft analogue of it.
           | 
           | *(This friction can be zero. You needn't take any positive
           | action to subscribe to the Nth website; rather the platforms
           | you subscribe to abstract that away for you, as they monitor
           | all your clicks and visits, and handle the income-splitting
           | transparently behind the curtains. Basically the Spotify
           | model, for the open WWW).
        
         | peytoncasper wrote:
         | How is this any different from any other sort of bundling done
         | by Apple news or Google news?
         | 
         | You're free to obtain a subscription to any of those media
         | companies personally and simply follow the link without Twitter
         | Blue.
         | 
         | Most people likely aren't going to want to manage multiple
         | subscriptions and will instead opt to not read the article. At
         | least with Twitter Blue the user doesn't have to worry about
         | multiple subscriptions and can simply read the story when they
         | want to.
         | 
         | Additionally, they now have a notification that indicates that
         | they won't immediately hit a paywall when they click on the
         | link.
         | 
         | Ultimately, media companies need to be compensated, and this
         | doesn't seem to be disadvantaging anyone...
        
           | holler wrote:
           | Yeah my first thought re: news/scroll was that it sounds
           | exactly like Apple News.
        
         | black_puppydog wrote:
         | Maybe they just mean that when you don't load all the ads,
         | things can actually load pretty fast? 0:-)
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | Yes, they're providing different quality experiences, but not
           | actually throttling bits like in the net neutrality scenario.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | Neat, you can pay for the experience you'd get for free with
       | uBlock.
        
       | wpietri wrote:
       | I just signed up not because I'm particularly interested in the
       | Twitter Blue features, but because I believe in paying for things
       | I use. I also want Twitter (and other companies) to start
       | reducing their dependency on advertising dollars, which come with
       | a lot of perverse incentives.
       | 
       | If people are looking for in on the web client, it's in the left
       | menu under "More".l
        
       | LordAtlas wrote:
       | Not bad, Twitter product design team. They managed to take
       | essential UX improvements and stick it behind a paid
       | subscription.
        
         | somehnacct3757 wrote:
         | I first learned this technique from product managers in F2P
         | games. If players are asking for a QoL improvement, make it a
         | consumable item and sell it.
        
         | missinfo wrote:
         | Cheeky. Charging for a send tweet delay, so you have time to
         | "undo" it.
        
       | unangst wrote:
       | I'm glad to support independent journalism while gaining ad-free
       | access to quality content on a platform I frequent.
        
         | angulardragon03 wrote:
         | Ideally you'd also get ad-free access to Twitter itself, which
         | I would certainly consider paying for. Considering the annual
         | per-user revenue is ~ 12USD [1], this seems like something that
         | would be financially interesting to Twitter.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/forecast-of-the-
         | day%3A-twitt...
        
           | johnnyo wrote:
           | The average across all users is $12, but I suspect the
           | average over people willing to pay for Blue is likely higher
           | than that.
           | 
           | It's can be a Catch-22 in some cases. The same people most
           | willing to pay to opt-out are the ones most coveted by
           | advertisers.
        
             | X6S1x6Okd1st wrote:
             | Some how I don't think the people that want to pay to get
             | rid of ads are the ones clicking on them.
             | 
             | Anecdotally someone I am close to doesn't seem to mind ads
             | and regularly buys products from them, I block ads and
             | rarely ever buy products from them. I'd pay for not being
             | served ads in the first place
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | Anecdotally, I click ads and buy things from them all the
               | time and I have all ad free subscriptions: YouTube,
               | Netflix, Amazon, WSJ, Economist. Lots of stuff. Instagram
               | doesn't have an ad free thing but I would have paid for
               | it in the past. Not any more though.
        
               | wbobeirne wrote:
               | It's not necessarily about clicking the ad, it's also
               | about brand awareness and the subconscious effect of
               | having seen it.
               | 
               | In the back of your head when you see the product the
               | next time, you might think to yourself "I've seen this
               | somewhere before... it's probably reputable." Or when
               | you're in need of something, that brand's product might
               | pop into your head sooner as something to assess.
        
           | jsnell wrote:
           | That's worldwide. Their revenue per US user from ads is
           | $4/month. Selling an ad-free subscription for $3/month can't
           | work for them just from those numbers, and it gets worse when
           | you consider that Apple will be taking 30% of the latter but
           | not the former.
        
             | angulardragon03 wrote:
             | You can subscribe outside of the App Store, and I'd likely
             | pay more than $4 a month to see only tweets, without ads.
             | The only thing holding me back from paying for something
             | like TweetBot is that Twitter has intentionally hobbled
             | notifications for third-party apps.
        
             | X6S1x6Okd1st wrote:
             | It can work it just wouldn't be profit maximizing in the
             | short term
        
           | PascLeRasc wrote:
           | Is this not covering promoted tweets? That's what I'd like to
           | pay to not see.
        
             | angulardragon03 wrote:
             | Nope, it just provides access to articles without ads.
             | Certainly has its uses if you use Twitter as a news
             | aggregator, but it's not that useful for me.
        
           | likpok wrote:
           | Per international user is extremely misleading. Ad costs are
           | wildly different based on geographic area, with the US being
           | far higher.
           | 
           | FB, for example, pulls 4-5x the ARPU for US users compared
           | with international. I'd expect twitter to have a similar
           | pattern (though it depends on what 'international' means:
           | Europe is only half the US).
           | 
           | The other issue with this is that the most engaged twitter
           | users are going be the likeliest to sign up for a paid
           | twitter service. These are _also_ going to be the people
           | pulling the average up.
        
         | acheron wrote:
         | I love engaging with brands!
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | You want me to pay to join the toxic cesspool?
        
         | woodpanel wrote:
         | I'd find it funny to pay _and_ be cancelled off the toxic
         | cesspool
        
         | fortyseven wrote:
         | Yes, you're very cool.
        
         | nvr219 wrote:
         | You can join for free and just pay to reduce the toxicity
         | levels slightly.
        
         | Bellend wrote:
         | I have been an elite troll since the original doom deathmatch
         | days. I have a true skillset in the arts. Twitter Blue is going
         | to require some serious passive trolling but I have just taken
         | the challenge. If I get banned after paying then I'll be the
         | one that is foaming at the mouth with rage!
        
         | tillinghast wrote:
         | They want you to pay to join the toxic cesspool.
        
       | manningthegoose wrote:
       | As someone who was an initial skeptic when this was first
       | announced, I really appreciate what twitter is trying to do with
       | Blue, especially around direct payments to publishers. Any step
       | to get the internet off of the ad-based data-harvesting revenue
       | model is ultimately better for almost all parties.
        
         | ghawk1ns wrote:
         | Who said the data-harvesting would stop?
        
           | manningthegoose wrote:
           | You're right, it probably won't, at least not while it's
           | still printing money for all the corporate entities involved.
           | But it's my understanding that most of the data-harvesting
           | tools in use today were originally created to enhance ad-
           | targeting and drive up CPM. At the very least we can hope
           | products like Blue might put a dent in this incentive
           | structure.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | Cable television was supposed to be a direct funded, ad
             | free alternative to broadcast.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Something about a road being paved with good intentions
               | feels appropriate here.
        
             | vosper wrote:
             | > At the very least we can hope products like Blue might
             | put a dent in this incentive structure.
             | 
             | I wonder if Twitter Blue customers will be omitted from the
             | data stream that Twitter is selling to corporations and
             | governments?
        
             | otrahuevada wrote:
             | Facebook makes maybe about 30USD a year from any given
             | profile:
             | 
             | > https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a212
             | 721...
             | 
             | Being relatively optimistic about Twitter's size, and
             | assuming they're just fantastic at it, Twitter might make
             | what, half of that? So for 3$ a month you need about half
             | of the userbase to be on board for data munging to no
             | longer make sense as a business model.
             | 
             | I do wonder how high that mark is though, every SAAS I've
             | worked with has been pay-to-use from the start, so this is
             | not a metric I'm familiar with.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | But, it's not direct payment to publishers. It's indirect via
         | twitter. You can pay publishers directly already by buying
         | subscriptions. Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels
         | from twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional
         | journalism.
         | 
         | This is mostly my hot take just based on the press release, but
         | color me dubious. Local news is struggling nationwide and this
         | doesn't feel like a solution. It feels like silicon valley
         | looking to increase profits for their shareholders to the
         | detriment of the world.
        
           | kooshball wrote:
           | disagree with this point. I rather have more objective ads
           | driven journalism than subscription "professional
           | journalism". subscription are even more biased and create
           | further silos for mis/information.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | > Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from
           | twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.
           | 
           | Wouldn't payment integration with Twitter (if executed well)
           | just make it easier for Twitter users to convert to paying
           | the publisher after seeing the publisher's tweet? I don't see
           | how it would _increase_ the incentive for a publisher to post
           | clickbait tweets, except perhaps for publishers whose in-
           | house payment flow is very poorly implemented or nonexistent.
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | > You can pay publishers directly already by buying
           | subscriptions
           | 
           | But that's not how most of us access news. We look at sources
           | like Twitter, Hacker News, Facebook, Google News for links to
           | articles.
           | 
           | Subscribing to a single website doesn't work in this model.
        
           | manningthegoose wrote:
           | > Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from
           | twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.
           | 
           | Isn't that what they're already doing? Except the payer is
           | the advertiser instead of the platform itself via the
           | subscriber.
        
             | terr-dav wrote:
             | Professional journalism has always had this problem to a
             | degree; there's always been an advertiser or other funding
             | source you don't want to piss off. Twitter just exacerbates
             | this by rewarding the most sensational, attention-grabbing
             | posts.
        
               | Robotbeat wrote:
               | Editors writing clickbait headlines have been guilty of
               | this for so, SO long. And it has gotten worse over time,
               | even as the actual articles are increasingly behind
               | paywalls. Complain about headlines which have almost no
               | bearing on anything that could be called truth, and
               | you'll be accused of not reading the article... as if
               | that'd get the headline-writers off the hook.
        
         | giga_chad wrote:
         | Why would I pay publishers?
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Unfortunately, I suspect $2.99 per month isn't sufficient to
         | make these publishers whole with what they would have earned
         | from the same users.
         | 
         | Only a small fraction of twitter users will sign up, and the
         | overlap with the kind of users likely to spend money on
         | advertisers products will be big.
         | 
         | I suspect this is true at nearly any price point. Even if it
         | cost $50 per month, the tiny fraction of users who did sign up
         | would be worth more than $50 in monthly ad revenue, since those
         | are the kind of people who will subscribe to other high value
         | services.
        
           | smugglerFlynn wrote:
           | I think it depends on what kind of product Twitter Blue would
           | become. Getting all the publishers in one app, and getting
           | "news reading experience" designed right, may attract users
           | who were not paying anything to publishers before.
           | 
           | I just wonder if getting into channel business, instead of
           | building more open of a platform where publishers control the
           | prices themselves, was the right move for Twitter. Time will
           | tell.
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | As someone who used and appreciated Scroll (now Twitter Blue)
         | for the same reasons, I'm pissed that they shut down the
         | standalone service and locked it behind Twitter accounts.
         | 
         | Canceled my subscription after that email went out. It's a
         | shame. Kinda wish Mozilla had acquired it instead, although
         | they don't have the leverage to promote it like Twitter does.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | Taniwha wrote:
       | Some profit taking there - US$2.99 is not NZ$4.49 more like $4.20
       | - it's not like it costs extra money to NOT ship ads across the
       | Pacific
        
       | khc wrote:
       | This came from an acquisition of scroll, which used to allow
       | browsing partner websites without ads. Twitter Blue seems to
       | require that we visit those sites from a tweet, which is a
       | degraded functionality
        
       | Andrex wrote:
       | - Doesn't remove ads on Twitter itself
       | 
       | - Is not compatible with _any_ news paywalls (they just strip ads
       | out of already free-to-access articles)
       | 
       | - Edit Tweet isn't Edit Tweet. It's an option to delay your
       | tweets by 60 seconds. After that, you cannot Edit Tweet. "Slow
       | Tweet" is more accurate but probably less marketable.
       | 
       | Even if I were still using Twitter, and even though I support
       | journalism when I can (paywalls for a few sites, etc.), I still
       | wouldn't pay $3 for this.
       | 
       | I think Twitter has a lot of work left to do on their business
       | model. This move, IMO, is at least 5 years too late (if not
       | 8-10). Considering Twitter has been unprofitable for most of its
       | life, including in 2020[0], it's only _now_ that they 're
       | thinking about alternatives to their ad network.
       | 
       | 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/29/twitter-twtr-
       | earnings-q1-202...
        
       | captn3m0 wrote:
       | No alt-text on screenshots, seriously twitter?
        
       | koolba wrote:
       | > In continuing our commitment to strengthen and support
       | publishers and a free press, a portion of the revenue from
       | Twitter Blue subscription fees goes directly to publishers within
       | our network.
       | 
       | I'm going to guess that I won't find any NY Post stories about
       | Hunter Biden's infamous laptop on this filtered platform.
       | 
       | Honestly this just sounds like a door fee for an echo chamber.
        
       | ProfessorLayton wrote:
       | I find it quite astonishing that Twitter is gating UX
       | improvements like Undo/Edit and Reader view behind a paywall --
       | both are problems of their own doing!
       | 
       | - Undo/Edit is just basic functionality being sold for money.
       | 
       | - Reader View wouldn't be necessary if twitter threads weren't
       | hot garbage to begin with.
       | 
       | I really don't mind paying for a good product, and overall I like
       | twitter the most out of all the other big social sites. However,
       | what I've been seeing for years now is that they refuse to build
       | the best product possible for most of their users, and they would
       | rather stagnate than improve it "for free".
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-09 23:01 UTC)