[HN Gopher] Jony Ive's first major design since leaving Apple
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Jony Ive's first major design since leaving Apple
Author : quyleanh
Score : 113 points
Date : 2021-11-06 10:58 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.fastcompany.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.fastcompany.com)
| [deleted]
| seltzered_ wrote:
| It's odd to hear about LoveFrom's association with Terra Carta
| alongside their involvement with Ferrari:
| https://corporate.ferrari.com/en/exor-ferrari-and-lovefrom-a... .
| cududa wrote:
| The lead designer of the Apple Car joined LoveFrom earlier this
| year. Ferrari has a hybrid car. Apple's ID team doesn't just
| design the objects they design the manufacturing machines too -
| and have been able to reduce a lot of materials waste. Would
| expect their relationship to extend into things like electric
| vehicles and manufacturing techniques.
| abrowne wrote:
| I'm seeing it score 1 out of 2 on the dead butterfly scale.
|
| https://www.emilydamstra.com/please-enough-dead-butterflies/
| c54 wrote:
| Website isn't loading for me, what's the dead butterfly scale?
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Basically just that 95% of butterflies are drawn in unnatural
| stretched out death poses used by collectors to take better
| pictures for books. But that has become the reference
| material so they are drawn in poses that they can't do in
| life.
| jhgb wrote:
| > they are drawn in poses that they can't do in life
|
| So just like school photos, then.
| mc32 wrote:
| Butterflies feeding in the sun may fold their wings up to
| look like a sail, but other times you see them with wings
| stretched out.
|
| Now, it's true when you see a group of butterflies they are
| not uniformly in one position. But some of their positions
| coincide with those of pinned butterflies. It's also true
| some pinned butterflies spread out their wings in extreme
| positions but not all are pinned like that --at least not
| by amateurs.
| Talanes wrote:
| You're refuting with no evidence an article with very
| compelling photographic evidence.
| FpUser wrote:
| We have swarms of butterflies here every end of the
| summer and I can confirm that it is true. Plenty of those
| sitting with spread out wings, folded wings and all kind
| of in-betweens.
| mc32 wrote:
| I've gone to places that exhibit live butterflies and I
| watch live butterflies feeding in their natural
| environment. It's anecdotal.
| dmitshur wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210804100927/https://www.emily.
| .. may help access it.
| 1986 wrote:
| Hugged to death, it seems - Wayback Machine link:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210728185604/https://www.emily...
| SilasX wrote:
| Off topic, but I _just_ looked that up to get around the
| resource limit being reached without even stopping to think
| that someone might have already posted it lol
| silicon2401 wrote:
| not the intended take, but I'd love to see fewer dead
| butterflies regardless of the posing. while the patterns on
| their wings are beautiful, butterflies are a particularly
| unpleasant insect to look at for me. I'd enjoy looking at
| beetles or flies more; something about the proportions of
| butterflies makes them rather awful
| dang wrote:
| _Please, enough with the dead butterflies (2017)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27948008 - July 2021 (210
| comments)
|
| _Enough with the Dead Butterflies (2017)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21788356 - Dec 2019 (28
| comments)
|
| _Enough with the dead butterflies_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14460013 - June 2017 (163
| comments)
| libria wrote:
| It's an icon, like the most popular save icon depicts a dead
| format https://www.google.com/search?q=save+icon
|
| Earlier discussion here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14460013
| ModernMech wrote:
| You need to warn people before posting this. I saw it when it
| popped up on HN and now I'm like Haley Joel Osment in the Sixth
| Sense: I see dead butterflies, all the time. It changes a
| person.
| abrowne wrote:
| Yeah, I think my partner is tired of me me mentioning it when
| we read our 15-month son picture books. (Some of the best
| that I remember are in the book _Little You_.)
| ajford wrote:
| I sent the article to my spouse some time back and she's mad
| at me for ruining butterflies for her. She made the exact
| same Sixth Sense reference too!
|
| We've now made it a challenge to spot "live" butterfly
| depictions everywhere.
| roughly wrote:
| That was my immediate reaction, too - "well there's something
| I'll never unsee"
| 323 wrote:
| Pretty, but kind of exemplifies the problem the world is facing.
|
| Exquisitely beautiful marketing and that's it, nothing behind it.
|
| We all know the beautiful environmental ads the worst polluter
| companies are making (like oil companies).
|
| Or luxury companies creating "come to us with your damaged bag
| and we'll repair it for you instead of throwing it out, because
| we care about the environment" programs, but at the same time
| having a policy of slashing and throwing away unsold merchandise
| (https://www.newsweek.com/coach-accused-deliberately-slashing...)
| ajkjk wrote:
| Fuck, it is beautiful though.
| Talanes wrote:
| >Or luxury companies creating "come to us with your damaged bag
| and we'll repair it for you instead of throwing it out, because
| we care about the environment" programs, but at the same time
| having a policy of slashing and throwing away unsold
| merchandise
|
| Very cynically, the first program would also help stamp out any
| market for repairing their bags outside of their control. Which
| just further reduces the value of slashed merchandise without
| proof of purchase.
| draw_down wrote:
| Yes. Indeed it is pretty but this is just rich people jacking
| each other off.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Yawn
| Grakel wrote:
| It's a logo for Prince Charles' organization that awards
| companies making environmental efforts.
| pipnonsense wrote:
| Not a logo, but a "seal". The distinction makes sense, since
| the intricate design would not work well as logo I think. I
| found it beautiful, but obviously it's only "news" because of
| who created it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| What is the distinction of a seal and logo in practice?
| femto wrote:
| A seal is supposed to be difficult to counterfeit:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4xqfs0/how_
| w...
|
| As such, there is an argument that a seal refers to a
| physical object with physical imperfections, which are hard
| to reproduce. Note that the article is about the "design"
| for the seal, as distinct from the seal itself. Maybe the
| plan is to manufacture a physical seal off the design
| (complete with manufacturing imperfections) then use that
| to make impressions?
| jaywalk wrote:
| Logo has to work in many more contexts. You probably aren't
| going to be embroidering a seal on a polo shirt, for
| example. A seal will go on your website and marketing
| pamphlets, but that's about it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| My next question would be is there an economic value of a
| seal? I would think slapping a logo on everything works
| all the same. Or am I wrong to think most (everyone
| except the creator?) people would not know or care about
| seeing a seal vs a logo.
| jaywalk wrote:
| A seal conveys a specific certification/endorsement while
| a logo is identifying a company/product/service/etc. For
| example, if you're a Microsoft Certified Solutions
| Engineer, slapping a Microsoft logo on your website
| doesn't convey that (and surely won't be appreciated by
| Microsoft).
| jimmyed wrote:
| This is better described as a Seal.
|
| Another great seal to savor is Mughal Emperor Alamgir's
| https://mobile.twitter.com/mkapoorofficial/status/1095588089...
| noneeeed wrote:
| The article actually calls it a seal, it just appears to be the
| subheading that calls it a logo mark.
| bmitc wrote:
| Well this is only his second design after a rounded aluminum
| cutout, so I think we should withhold judgement.
| amelius wrote:
| That blue butterfly reminds me of:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14460013
| quadrifoliate wrote:
| A bit offtopic, but I am disappointed that the the initial
| "winners" of this seal [1] seem to be almost all companies that
| are terrible for the environment and society.
|
| ----------------------------------------
|
| [1] https://www.sustainable-markets.org/terra-carta-
| seal/winners...
| meragrin_ wrote:
| If they are terrible for the environment and they are making a
| serious, credible commitments on improving, shouldn't that make
| you happy?
| lapetitejort wrote:
| If PepsiCo (one of the companies listed) ceased production of
| plastic bottles immediately I would be happy. That is a
| serious, credible commitment to improve.
| koboll wrote:
| They'd still be responsible for killing millions and
| sickening billions of people via sugar addiction.
|
| I guess human bodies are exempt from being considered part
| of the natural world.
| timeon wrote:
| > I guess human bodies are exempt from being considered
| part of the natural world.
|
| Still this seems to be like moving the goalposts.
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| Don't we generally define natural as not human made?
| Makes sense then that less humans improves the natural
| world.
| tcskeptic wrote:
| Is your position really that no one should be allowed to
| produce products that are unhealthy? This seems
| incredibly invasive.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| no one mentioned banning and the OP is about recognition
| not enforcement
| wrycoder wrote:
| Talking about serious, credible commitments isn't actual
| action accomplished with tangible results.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| > The following global corporations have been awarded the 2021
| inaugural Terra Carta Seal in recognition of their commitment
| to, and momentum towards, the creation of genuinely sustainable
| markets. These firms have credible transition roadmaps in
| place, underpinned by globally recognised, scientific metrics
| for achieving net zero by 2050 or sooner.
|
| 1) Seems like they're all companies that have noble
| commitments.
|
| 2) They don't seem that bad (tech and banks mostly)
|
| 3) Bad companies have the biggest potential for growth i
| suppose.
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| Not sure.
|
| I get what they are trying to achieve.
|
| But the branches interweaving the letters makes it harder to read
| and it feels jarring.
| gidam wrote:
| I will say only one thing: the touch bar.
| exotree wrote:
| I think it's quite whimsical and appropriately dainty without
| ignoring the institution's rigid, demanding formality.
| nikau wrote:
| Looks like a generic logo you would see on some Aldi organic oat
| packet.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I think it' too busy, I have no idea what I'm looking at or
| what this is supposed to convey from a design perspective.
| Fezzik wrote:
| A complete tangent, but the design reminded me of one of the
| most beautifully illustrated children's books I have ever read:
| Trouble for Trumpets. It was written in 1982 and still looks
| futuristic. Even at 40 I can leaf through it joyfully.
|
| https://petercrossart.com/books/trumpets/trouble-for-trumpet...
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Thank you for reminding me about this book. It captived me as
| a young child. I must have seen it in a library.
| Unfortunately it seems impossible to aquire now, for less
| than a few hundred pounds.
| scrumper wrote:
| I think it's better than that. The interlocking circles aspect
| was clever, surprising, and enjoyable when I spotted it.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| That aspect reminds me of the biohazard symbol.
|
| Not a fan, seems derivative and low effort, the foliage
| diapering surely obscures the text too much to make a good
| seal (I guess with a proper depth mask it could work). The
| circumferential motto is standard seal/coin design, of
| course.
|
| It's relatively good on austerity, mainly carried by the
| strong display type, or would be in the right colouring --
| but not as a [wax] seal.
|
| Should be more emblematic IMO. That doesn't mean it can't be
| intricate fwiw.
|
| Just one dead butterfly would have done! /s
| imnotrick wrote:
| > seems derivative and low effort
|
| that's pretty harsh and rude. I don't get that vibe at all
| when looking at the design
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Any examples?
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| More than a nod to William Morris. But on white.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morris
| stevebmark wrote:
| From the outside, it looks like Jony Ive was only able to get
| away with the damaging push to flat design after Steve Jobs died,
| and since Ive has left Apple, beautiful skeuomorphic gradients,
| lighting, embosses, drop shadows, and photo-real elements, have
| started to return. His legacy is a deep stain on the design
| industry that we are only now beginning to recover from. The loss
| of accessibility and beauty from only using flat design has set
| us back a long way.
| simonklitj wrote:
| I disagree with you, I think it was a much needed reboot to the
| concept of design, and the future will be all the brighter for
| it. Accessibility is more on everyone's mind today than ever
| before, and I think skeumorphism's accessibility was more of a
| side effect than an intended effect.
|
| I'll gladly be proven wrong though, but design wise I'd
| absolutely hate to go back to pre 2012.
| mc32 wrote:
| But often times flat design lacks hints or affordances which
| is the opposite of accessibility.
| voldacar wrote:
| There is something deeply antihuman about flat design. It's
| hard to describe exactly how, because it sounds silly when it
| comes out of your mouth, but I really believe this is true on
| some deep, pre-verbal level. They make me feel mentally and
| spiritually harmed somehow.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I mean, in fairness, the design outlined in TFA is an
| intricate, 3D, embossed design, so maybe Ive himself is off the
| "simple and flat" train -\\_(tsu)_/-
| applgo443 wrote:
| What's the problem with flat design? I love that!
| baq wrote:
| It's ok if you have two eyes, two hands and/or a well lit
| room.
|
| Apple TV remote is possibly the worst remote ever made.
| ibero wrote:
| just to clear it up:
|
| "flat design" is a reference or common term to a graphical
| design style that followed skeuomorphism, not a term used
| for the industrial design aspect.
| dtgriscom wrote:
| This. I forever struggle to persuade my remote to do what I
| want it to. That touch-sensitive panel is a complete PIA,
| and just navigating across a rectangular array of icons is
| fraught with detours.
|
| If I were paranoid, I'd say it was designed to force people
| to use the voice-recognition system, which gives better
| user data.
| secondcoming wrote:
| Eliminating the 3.5mm jack was a step too far!
| tomxor wrote:
| You may love the way it looks... but no one being honest with
| themselves loves the way it functions, UI is visually
| functional, a functionality that happens in your brain, like
| legibility - flat UI has very poor "legibility" if compared
| to something like 3d embossed win95 UI where every
| identification and anticipation is painfully obvious to the
| point that it's effortless. It's familiarity is also learned
| in a very short space of time; whereas flat UI continues to
| elude even advanced users and remains ambiguous with high
| cognitive load - you might not realise why, but it will feel
| slow, and uncomfortable for each new front end you encounter.
|
| Designers don't like this fact because that embossed 3d look
| is considered ugly, but it's intuitively and obviously true.
| ChrisClark wrote:
| A deep stain? No, I wish everything remained flat, it is
| exactly what design of software should be. (I can also state my
| opinion as fact)
|
| But seriously, I do really love flat design. Though I do agree
| with some of the arguments against it.
|
| A more varied design landscape is always better though.
| Osmium wrote:
| > His legacy is a deep stain on the design industry
|
| This is a rather extreme statement. A person's career can be
| long and complex, involve many projects, not all of which will
| be successful. We all learn.
|
| From the outside, it seems that Jony Ive was successful in a
| lot of endeavors, was successful in creating a disciplined
| design culture, and yes, sometimes, went too far (it seems) but
| even that kind of exploration can be useful for how it informs
| future work.
| lordleft wrote:
| I think it's gorgeous.
| cududa wrote:
| When people, particularly designers, say something is "too
| intricate" or whatever, it's usually just a signal they
| wouldn't have the skills to make something like it.
|
| Late 2000's/ early 2010's there was a rush of college students
| wanting to pursue app/ web design. Colleges had no faculty to
| fill that, so they just took print design professors and they
| shoehorned print philosophy into interaction design and we
| ended up with a generation of designers who don't have the
| first idea about depth hierarchy, affordance, etc and
| everything looks like a scrollable poster now.
| michaelcampbell wrote:
| I expected it to be smug and pretentious. Wasn't disappointed.
| ehutch79 wrote:
| It's a book, but he's removed the unsightly ink that has
| blemished the exquisitely produced paper?
|
| A tshirt, but he's limited the unsightly holes at the top and
| bottom for an uninterrupted design aesthetic?
|
| I prefer macs, but some of their worst laptops were from Ive's
| push for absolute minimalism and thinness
| mattmoose21 wrote:
| I see Ive getting blamed for how the macs were designed but
| isn't that to be expected when you put a designer at that level
| of decision making? Why not blame Tim Apple for letting him go
| that far.
| ehutch79 wrote:
| Well, he's not there any more?
|
| Give his seniority, and the realities of office politics, i
| doubt it's that simple
| dlsa wrote:
| Nothing says "we love the planet" more than a mountain of old
| dongles, broken and cracked iphone charger cables, and
| unrepairable consumer electronics.
|
| All of which could have had much longer useful lifetimes
| through the most basic engineering practices. Apple cables are
| perfect examples of style over substance. Insufficient
| reinforcement for a daily use item. Poor design.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| >Apple cables are perfect examples of style over substance.
| Insufficient reinforcement for a daily use item. Poor design.
|
| They used to be fine though, it's when they changed the
| rubber to whatever they use today that starts to fray and
| fall apart.
|
| My Titanium Powerbook cable is still intact and fine even
| today, but every cable I've bought from around 2014 onwards
| has frayed. I've heard they switched to a more "eco-friendly"
| rubber at some point, but I don't see the value in that if I
| have to buy 2-3 power cables over a laptops life.
| subsubzero wrote:
| agree, I thought Ive went off the deep end towards the end of
| his tenure at apple, Tim Cook prb was afraid to rein him in
| due to his seniority with apple and how close he was to Jobs.
|
| You can see how things were "fixed" at apple now that Ive is
| gone and the new M1 macs no longer have alot of the design
| inputs he pushed for.
| irthomasthomas wrote:
| Awesome. Sometimes, when I'm waiting for a build to finish, I
| doodle the Flower of life. And, if its a particularly big build,
| it expands to a Metatrons Cube. Anyway, its nice to see Ive using
| it in a refreshing way.
| RicoElectrico wrote:
| Graphic design at the top end is more akin to a Veblen good
| (desirable, because expensive). Change my mind ;)
| chaostheory wrote:
| After his coffee book, I'm not surprised to see that he's burned
| out on industrial design for now.
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| Not sure he's done yet. Good new fonts are a rare thing and he
| might be on to something.
|
| With hdpi now very common, typography for screens can evolve.
| The stark minimalist typography of early computers was very
| much driven by the necessity of having very limited resolution,
| contrast, and dynamic range. Sans serif fonts like Helvetica,
| and its many derivatives, with its straight lines & simple
| curves were optimal for that type of screen. Serif fonts, with
| their fiddly details are a lot harder to render in a pleasing
| way on such screens.
|
| However, with modern screens, those problems are addressed to
| the point where there is little practical difference in
| resolution between print and screen. So, making the most of
| modern screens through design becomes a challenge. Serif fonts
| are still popular for print for a good reason: they are
| pleasing to the eye and it helps readability. If you work from
| first principles to address such a challenge on a modern
| screen, you'd start with a font and a serif font would be not
| such a strange choice as it used to be.
|
| Just my opinion, but both font and logo strike me as rather
| beautiful.
| lukebuehler wrote:
| I cant wait for the serif revival. Soon we are going to
| return to much more intricate, embellished, and ornate
| design, just like the seal in the article. As you say, the
| new displays are gonna make it feasible.
| WesolyKubeczek wrote:
| I changed my system font to IBM Plex Serif, my desktop
| theme to the old revered Motif-like style, and my colors to
| the pastel orange and teal palette of CDE. Never did it
| look so pleasant before.
| nemo44x wrote:
| Google is going to have to change their logo again!
|
| One thing I always respected about MongoDB is they use a
| serif font for their logo in a time and age when virtually
| no startup would use such a thing. And then a sans-serif
| font for their products under it, so it really pops.
|
| I think design in the early-90's has a chance of
| reemerging. Just lots of fonts being aggressively used and
| lots of serif fonts. Things that would make David Carson
| proud.
| stonogo wrote:
| The fonts burned into CGA, EGA, and VGA bioses all had
| serifs. The default UI fonts on many X Window systems UIs,
| including CDE, were serif fonts. The 80-column card in the
| Apple IIe had a serif font.
|
| There was really only the first-generation home computer (and
| arguably first-gen PDAs) that widely shipped strictly sans-
| serif fonts; a blip in the history of personal computing.
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| Steve Jobs was into typography. Embracing Helvetica for the
| Macintosh was not an accident in the early eighties.
|
| Later pcs were about wysiwyg. Which given the primary
| medium was still paper for dtp and wordprocessing software,
| meant serif fonts.
| bob229 wrote:
| As always for Ive style over substance
| yaacov wrote:
| Flagged for clickbait title
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