[HN Gopher] The Dangerous Power of Crowds (2011)
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The Dangerous Power of Crowds (2011)
Author : dbreunig
Score : 47 points
Date : 2021-11-06 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| inglor_cz wrote:
| In 1998, the Czech hockey team won the Olympic Games at Nagano
| and there was a huge crowd waiting for their return on the Old
| Town Square in Prague.
|
| I went there too, having no experience with crowds of that size.
| Waves of movement started going through the crowd, sudden bursts
| of violent pressure that moved you 10 feet or so suddenly. I
| found it hard to stay upright. Of course, everyone was screaming,
| so no cries for help would be of any use.
|
| I fled the situation as soon as there was an opening in the
| crowd. AFAIK no one was hurt that night, but I am still glad I
| didn't stay. The vicious power of the surges was overwhelming.
| kodah wrote:
| I immediately thought about the Wall of Death from mosh pits when
| I was a kid.
| latchkey wrote:
| Amazing, I just read this article, then pulled up reuters and saw
| this... if it wasn't real news, I'd think it was targeted
| advertising.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/world/us/least-8-dead-many-injured-t...
| cammikebrown wrote:
| That news is more than likely why this article was posted in
| the first place.
| latchkey wrote:
| Ah, you're probably right. I see now that the date on the NY
| piece is January 30, 2011.
| jjulius wrote:
| Yikes.
|
| > Scott stopped multiple times during his 75-minute performance
| when he spotted fans in distress near the stage, video posted
| online showed. He asked security to make sure they were safe.
| Emergency vehicles, lights and alarms flashing, cut through the
| audience several times.
|
| > "We need somebody to help. Somebody passed out right here,"
| Scott said, according to video of his set, which included a
| guest appearance by Canadian rapper Drake. "Security, somebody,
| jump in here real quick."
|
| 75 minutes? At what point do you say to yourself, "Geez, I
| don't normally have to stop performing and ask security to help
| passed out people, maybe I should stop"? I'd ask the same of
| the venue and promoter, too.
|
| I mean, there were _multiple ambulances in the middle of the
| crowd_ while he 's performing. Geez.
| wrycoder wrote:
| If he simply stopped, it could create an even bigger problem.
| rabuse wrote:
| I will never attend one of those jam-packed music
| festivals/concerts. One emergency (even a small one), and you are
| likely to be under a pile of bodies. No thanks.
| [deleted]
| yboris wrote:
| Side note: "The Wisdom of Crowds" by James Surowiecki
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Crowds-James-Surowiecki/dp/038...
| DonaldFisk wrote:
| Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20040623130633/http://www.litrix...
| rsyring wrote:
| 2011
| BruceEel wrote:
| ..and a reminder to add Elias Canetti's 1960 masterpiece "Crowds
| and Power" to your to-read list! He won the Nobel prize in 1981
| largely because of this book.
|
| You can read it online (as PDF too), at no charge.
| dunefox wrote:
| Also Psychology of Crowds by Gustave Le Bon.
| [deleted]
| asauter wrote:
| Ezra Kliens new book why we are divided asserts that
| rationality is also an emergent phenomena, individuals post
| hoc justify even smart ones. then I am reminded of the
| nietsche quote about groups being mad and indivuals rational.
| both positions have good supporting evidence and show we need
| more specificity, and need to talk about a distribution not
| just an average.
|
| I suspect there are pronounced peaks accross different group
| sizes where rationality is more emergent, and of course it
| depends on lot of factors: subject matter, groups
| homogeneity, expertise, connectivity probably this is a game
| theory field of study.
|
| I think luskin's citizens assembly research showed that a few
| hundred people from a culture, without any prior training,
| could with the help of domain experts make seemingly
| excellent policy decisions about difficult moral and
| technical issues.
| RistrettoMike wrote:
| For whatever reason I've found this "Human Crush" phenomena
| simultaneously interesting & terrifying ever since I first heard
| about it some years ago in regards to the Hillsborough disaster.
| People in a dense enough group cease to function as individual
| units... but instead as a large fluid mass incapable of immediate
| course correction.
|
| It's stuck with me, and made me more wary and alert when in
| crowded scenarios to this day. I suppose there's a thought to be
| had that as urban centers become more populous and common we'll
| have to figure out better ways of preventing and policing stuff
| like this. (And like the tragic stuff happening at Astroworld
| last night.)
|
| Be safe folks.
| pdkl95 wrote:
| > Hillsborough disaster
|
| The "We'll There's Your Problem" podcast had a interesting
| episode[1] about the Hillsborough disaster.
|
| > a large fluid mass
|
| Apparently mosh pits are an ideal gas. From [2]:
|
| >> ... we examined the 2D speed distribution; previous
| observations of human pedestrian traffic and escape panic led
| us to expect a broad distribution not well described by simple
| analytic expressions. However, the measured speed distribution
| in mosh pits wads well fit by the equilibrium speed
| distribution of classical 2D gassed, otherwise known as the
| Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2BjTfwhbh8
|
| [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.1886#
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| very old --
|
| some previous discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10488996
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