[HN Gopher] It's been 9 years since Valve rolled out the Steam L...
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       It's been 9 years since Valve rolled out the Steam Linux beta
        
       Author : underscore_ku
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2021-11-06 14:05 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.phoronix.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.phoronix.com)
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | >Steam on Linux after opening up access to everyone was seeing
       | around a ~2% marketshare prior to falling with the setbacks in
       | Linux gaming. But ever since Steam Play (Proton) was introduced
       | in 2018, it's begun rebounding. This past month it set a new
       | multi-year high with a 1.13% marketshare for Steam on Linux after
       | surpassing the 1.0% mark this summer.
       | 
       | From 1% to 1.13%. Isn't it glorious?
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | You have to start somewhere.
        
         | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
         | Since Linux only has between 1-2% market share of desktop
         | operating systems in total, that 0.13% increase is a reasonable
         | proportion of the Linux users out there. So not too bad I'd
         | say.
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | Quite a few people cite games (and software) as the reason
           | they don't switch, so hopefully that 0.13% are converted
           | people and not work-only users that started gaming.
        
       | oblak wrote:
       | Valve has proven to me that a wildly profitable company's
       | interests _can_ very much aligned with my own. Guess I should be
       | thanking MS for prompting this amazing development.
       | 
       | Part of me can't wait for the winter to come so that I can start
       | using my Index again without feeling like I am wasting my time at
       | home instead of enjoying a nice day outside.
        
       | mazone wrote:
       | Play only on linux since the last year or so and got away from
       | the dedicated windows machine i had to have for only gaming. I
       | had some bugs in the beginning but with recent versions of proton
       | it feels a lot more stable. I don't have any bugs anymore in any
       | games and don't notice any slowdowns or degraded performance. It
       | is quite amazing.
        
       | EamonnMR wrote:
       | Something I always told myself I'd get around to. I've been
       | meaning to set up Ubuntu on my desktop so I can use it for
       | development, anyone have a good tutorial for setting up
       | steam/proton?
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | It's basically set-and-forget. Just download Steam from your
         | preferred package manager, and all of the verified Proton
         | titles should be playable without manual intervention. If you
         | want to open up Proton to _all_ your Windows games, you have to
         | enable it in Settings  > Steam Play. ProtonDB is your best
         | friend, but besides that it's fairly easy to get up and
         | running. Props to Valve for removing the friction, here!
        
         | mazone wrote:
         | You basically just install steam from within your linux
         | distributions package manager. I use and recommend some arch
         | based distro but for Ubuntu it should be apt-get or some gui
         | tool like synaptic.
         | 
         | After you installed steam it will probably just work. You might
         | need to go into settings -> steam play and enable proton.
         | that's it.
        
       | deng wrote:
       | Yes, that's why you still have these 'ubuntu_12' folders in the
       | Steam installation, since they have never updated this in the
       | past 9 years. So in reality, native Linux development has pretty
       | much failed, and they have put all their money on Proton. That is
       | probably the right decision from a business perspective, but it's
       | pretty much a defeat nonetheless.
        
         | edflsafoiewq wrote:
         | What's wrong with it? Having the Windows APIs turn into a
         | portable abstraction layer is certainly amusing, but having
         | wine sitting underneath the program is really nice (essentially
         | for the same reason a VM is). For one thing, winedevs are way
         | better at linux support than random gamedevs.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Check OS/2 and Windows compatibility layer.
        
           | deng wrote:
           | One has to remember what Valve tried to achieve. If I
           | remember correctly, Microsoft back then announced that the
           | Microsoft Store would be an integral part of the upcoming
           | Windows 10. Seeing the huge amounts of money
           | Apple/Google/Valve were making with their stores, they openly
           | played with the idea to only allow application installations
           | through the Microsoft Store, most importantly games.
           | 
           | So Valve tried to break the Windows monopoly on games by
           | creating a native Linux SDK and releasing the Steam Machine,
           | which was based on Ubuntu. The goal was to make Linux a first
           | class citizen as a gaming _development_ platform, not just
           | something to run an emulation layer. The Steam Machine
           | failed, because it simply wasn 't very good. Valve quickly
           | lost interest in native Linux and let the native SDK rot away
           | into obsoletion. Fortunately, Microsoft being Microsoft, the
           | Windows Store was (and still is) a terrible platform, so
           | pretty much nobody is buying games there (except for
           | Minecraft), and you can still install anything you want on
           | Windows.
           | 
           | So of course you can say that you don't care if it runs
           | natively or in an emulation shim. It would have been nice if
           | Linux had become a game _development_ platform and not just a
           | kernel with a Windows API layer on top. So in a way, Linux '
           | success here is similar to Android's: Yes, it's technically
           | Linux, but not really.
        
             | georgyo wrote:
             | > Fortunately, Microsoft being Microsoft, the Windows Store
             | was (and still is) a terrible platform, so pretty much
             | nobody is buying games there (except for Minecraft), and
             | you can still install anything you want on Windows.
             | 
             | Microsoft has the disadvantage of being the biggest
             | platform and the most scrutinized.
             | 
             | The Microsoft store is as good as the Apple and Android
             | stores, but people using Microsoft are much more used to
             | downloading something from the website they want to install
             | something from. And developers don't have a strong
             | incentive to send them to the Microsoft store from their
             | website.
             | 
             | And Microsoft being such a big player, even time they make
             | moves, everyone else digs in to prevent them from taking
             | over. An example of the is steam machine.
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | > The goal was to make Linux a first class citizen as a
             | gaming development platform, not just something to run an
             | emulation layer.
             | 
             | Was it? Or was it a strategy they ended up not needing?
        
             | sangnoir wrote:
             | > One has to remember what Valve tried to achieve. If I
             | remember correctly, Microsoft back then announced that the
             | Microsoft Store would be an integral part of the upcoming
             | Windows 10
             | 
             | Your recollection is incomplete. Microsoft was threatening
             | to lockdown Windows app installations by requiring app
             | signing for _all_ executables in Win10. In the worst case,
             | it meant the Microsoft Store would be the _only_ store on
             | Windows, and Steam simply wouldn 't work on Windows.
             | 
             | Microsoft was toying with an idea that posed an existential
             | threat to Valve. IMO, Valve's goal was to be unshackled
             | from Microsoft's mercurial whims, and despite a slow start,
             | they have finally achieved that goal in the last few years.
             | Microsoft is still proceeding doen the TPM path, and has a
             | turnkey walled garden - I think Valves call was the right
             | one.
        
           | gpderetta wrote:
           | Yesterday my son wanted to play Overlord II that I had
           | purchased ages ago. It has a native linux version, and I
           | remember 3-4 years and a few distro/steam updates ago it
           | worked fine. Yesterday it would hang on startup. I didn't
           | want to spend an evening debugging it, so I flipped the
           | proton override on steam. After a quick reinstall, it worked
           | immediately and flawlessly.
           | 
           | So, I don't care whether a game is native [1] or run on an
           | emulation layer as long as it works and performs reasonably
           | well and, most importantly, it is supported.
           | 
           | [1] the reality of course is that many, but not all, native
           | ports still run on some sort of buggy, proprietary
           | translation layer.
        
         | hn8788 wrote:
         | I think it was Supergiant Games who said that because Proton is
         | good enough, they're don't plan to provide native Linux
         | versions of their games in the future.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | Does the game run well in Proton? Then who cares if it's not
           | native. What's wrong with using Windows APIs to run games on
           | Linux? Let's take Microsoft's API, embrace it, and steal that
           | sweet sweet gaming marketshare.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | The other day I bought Ziggurat 2, a great game except for
             | some mysterious input lag on the native version. Partially
             | out of amusement, I tried playing it through Proton and
             | _poof_ , there went the latency. I do not know what kind of
             | black magic it's using, but it seems to work quite well.
        
           | deng wrote:
           | I think it's pretty much impossible now to create a modern
           | game with the Steam runtime:
           | 
           | https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime#default-tools
        
         | superkuh wrote:
         | Not so much failed as it was never a real thing in the first
         | place. Valve supported steam machines and linux gaming so they
         | could fend off Microsoft's attempts to monopolize all gaming
         | with proprietary executable formats like in the windows store.
         | Every time MS starts this up again Valve will wave around the
         | linux/steam machine flag until it stops and then they go back
         | to not caring about linux.
        
           | johnny53169 wrote:
           | > then they go back to not caring about linux.
           | 
           | So they care so little about Linux they are going to release
           | a subsidized console using Linux next year? Give me a break
           | with your cynicism.
        
         | 999900000999 wrote:
         | Personally I'd rather have all software like this.
         | 
         | Have platform agnostic code, or let it prefer windows. If your
         | compatibility layer is so good I don't care.
         | 
         | Better than what we have now where tons of applications don't
         | run on Linux or Mac OS.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | At least we're past the days where the Steam installer would rm
         | -rf your home directory
        
       | assbuttbuttass wrote:
       | Between lutris and steam I don't even run Windows anymore.
        
       | rjzzleep wrote:
       | Now if only AMD didn't treat ROCm as an afterthought the graghics
       | card landscape could see an interesting shift. Steamdeck with ML
       | capabilities wolud be pretty cool.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Steam really has done an amazing job making Linux systems viable
       | gaming platforms.
       | 
       | The manner in which they've done so shows a delightful
       | understanding of the "unix philosophy" in so many ways, too.
       | 
       | Last month I was doing hardware changes on our home systems, my
       | daughter's steam install and mine copied to new systems with a
       | quick "tar" and no fuss; which was a very pleasant discovery.
       | 
       | They've rarely if ever (that I've seen) gone to extra effort to
       | introduce warts the user has to deal with. Opening up the new
       | deck hardware to show us how to do so, etc... Good eggs there.
        
         | thioordc wrote:
         | Yeah I rarely ever "like" a company but Valve has done so much
         | it's honestly amazing. The 30% they take is soooo worth it for
         | developers who don't have natural Linux support.
        
           | bartwe wrote:
           | In that case i'd like a refund as we ship a native linux
           | version ourself
        
             | thioordc wrote:
             | Maybe I wasn't clear but if you _dont_ have native support
             | then it's really worth the 30%! If a game does it's more
             | debatable. I also always try to buy the DRM free version if
             | it's available!
        
           | smallpipe wrote:
           | Reaching a single digit percentage larger user count in
           | exchange for 30% of your revenue is questionable accounting
        
             | milesvp wrote:
             | I saw an RPG maker who's been making games for over 20
             | years on GDC recently. He talks about steam's 30% cut. His
             | basic takeaway, is that he used to need to employ an entire
             | fulltime employee to handle all the things that steam now
             | does for him. For him, the steam tax pays for itself for
             | support and distribution alone.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | thioordc wrote:
             | Yes but that's not what I said! If you make a game that
             | doesn't have native support I will not buy it. 70% is much
             | bette than 0%! I'm sure if they had the choice between no
             | fees or 30% fees and Linux support they would take the zero
             | but they don't.
        
             | burnished wrote:
             | Anecdote: some one else's account of this was that it was
             | really helpful because the Linux portion of the community
             | (while much smaller than other segments) provided
             | consistently high quality feedback/bug reports.
        
               | hn8788 wrote:
               | That was just one company though. Other devs have said it
               | isn't worth supporting Linux because the majority of the
               | bug reports they get are distro specific edge cases.
        
               | zinekeller wrote:
               | That anecdote is in part due to the fact that the engine
               | that was used was already Linux-friendly and was already
               | ironed-out, so it made sense that more agnostic bugs are
               | reported, whereas other developers resent (native) Linux
               | support due to distros not even fully following LSB or
               | outdated libraries, which in Windows has at least the
               | concept of side-by-side libraries.
        
             | gravypod wrote:
             | Valve does quite a bit more than just proton.
             | 
             | 0. They manage the most popular games store in the western
             | world.
             | 
             | 1. They provide a community forum for your users.
             | 
             | 2. Host downloads of games (sometimes 100s of GBs). They
             | distribute the content all across the world and handle
             | region specific laws about what can be sold, etc. They host
             | content at edge so downloads are super fast.
             | 
             | 3. Process refund requests.
             | 
             | 4. Have one of the better VR abstraction layers for game
             | devs.
             | 
             | 5. Provide networking and social integration (chat, anti-
             | cheat, friends, etc).
             | 
             | 6. They allow you to generate steam keys (at no cost to
             | you) and sell them on your own website.
             | 
             | 7. They process payments (PayPal charges ~3% for this,
             | Stripe is 2.9%)
             | 
             | 8. Achievements, time tracking, etc. These are useful for
             | game devs who iterate on their formula (most use
             | achievements to see what percent of a user base does X).
             | 
             | That's what I can think off the top of my head benefits the
             | game developers. The list of things that benefits the users
             | is also pretty big (steam sales).
             | 
             | I don't think any company is good or bad but Valve's offer
             | to game devs is a pretty decent one.
             | 
             | > Anecdote: some one else's account of this was that it was
             | really helpful because the Linux portion of the community
             | (while much smaller than other segments) provided
             | consistently high quality feedback/bug reports.
        
               | quitit wrote:
               | Many comments also seem to be grounded in the false
               | notions that running a store is easy and inexpensive.
        
               | burnafter185 wrote:
               | They've also got a network of servers to help reduce
               | latency in P2P games, which is actually pretty impressive
               | to me. I don't know how effective it is, but as a _GAMER_
               | any solution to latency is a great boon.
        
               | peatmoss wrote:
               | Apart from a few games purchased on GoG, everything I buy
               | is on Steam. It's been a very consistent experience for a
               | long time. My first Steam "purchase" was me plugging in
               | the CD code from a copy of Half-Life purchased ~1999.
               | Everything I've purchased since then is playable in
               | minutes--most of it playable on Linux.
               | 
               | The killer feature of Valve / Steam for game developers
               | is customer trust. For me, that trust has translated into
               | a resolute refusal to buy games on any other platform.
        
               | paulryanrogers wrote:
               | Considering all the broken or neglected games on Steam
               | I've lost trust in them. GOG has started slipping in
               | quality as they've grown, but at least they strive to
               | host playable games and without DRM.
               | 
               | Competition among stores and hosting is good IMO, even if
               | a modest inconvenience.
        
               | debaserab2 wrote:
               | Platform loyalty in gaming has always struck me as an odd
               | phenomenon. You don't hear people raving about netflix or
               | hulu being superior, but for some reason there is a huge
               | fanbase for Steam itself.
               | 
               | I mean, I don't mind steam, but I'd really prefer to have
               | software that I purchase not check with a gate keeping
               | entity before launching itself.
        
               | ajvs wrote:
               | Most people don't care about privacy much, so they don't
               | notice that if you try to use Steam in offline mode
               | permanently it's impossible. Valve like most other big
               | tech companies wants all their user data too.
        
               | revolvingocelot wrote:
               | I don't think that's the reason. Valve is too small to
               | really achieve anything with our user data, nor do they
               | have any impetus to collect it. The Hardware Survey is
               | technically optional, and my recommendations are so
               | unbelievably poor that I can't seriously believe that
               | feature ingests any individual user data.
               | 
               | I suspect it's more to do with the fact that without
               | requiring a new Steam Ticket every once in a while, I
               | could go and install much of my library on a friend's
               | computer (or any number of friends!), rig the OS to deny
               | Steam internet connectivity, and thereby allow them to
               | play games with my licenses indefinitely and
               | undetectably! The horror!
        
               | nindalf wrote:
               | I bought several games in my childhood. Games that mean a
               | lot to me personally because of how much I had to scrimp
               | and save to be able to afford. It took me nearly a year
               | to cobble enough money to buy Warcraft III. And I can't
               | play the game anymore because I've lost the CD. Ditto
               | with Halo, CS, AoE and others.
               | 
               | Every game I've purchased on Steam I can play right now
               | with one click. Obviously others offer the same thing now
               | but Steam offered it first. They also have region
               | specific pricing, a huge pull for me at some point.
               | 
               | There are other good store fronts, I'm sure. But the
               | amount of trust they've built with me over the last 10+
               | years can't be replicated overnight by anyone else.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | >And I can't play the game anymore because I've lost the
               | CD. Ditto with Halo, CS, AoE and others.
               | 
               | The disadvantage is that your game is locked now to your
               | account, I cant just gift my games to my son. I have to
               | make sure to keep my Steam version in Offline mode before
               | he tries to play from his PC using my Steam Account. I
               | wish there was a way to create family accounts and share
               | the game or even gift them to your children, you could
               | add some rules like you can't re-gift same game for say n
               | years or whatever.
        
               | bluely wrote:
               | Have you tried Steam Family Sharing?
               | https://store.steampowered.com/promotion/familysharing
               | 
               | It won't support every game but it should help you in
               | your quest to share games with your son
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | So we don't need sharing, I want transferring/gifting.
               | Basically i have a ton of games , very old not this last
               | years AAA , that I won't play again but my son will play,
               | like Gary's mod that can import content from Half Life
               | games and Portal if you have them installed, so I would
               | like to create a new account for my son and completely
               | transfer half of my library to him.
        
               | revolvingocelot wrote:
               | The problem with Family Sharing is that it requires that
               | the donor account not be playing any of its games while
               | the recipient does. The workaround is to kill the
               | internet connection to the donor account, then both
               | accounts can play to their hearts' content! Er, as long
               | as the donor doesn't mind single-player content.
               | 
               | Which is essentially what grandparent is already doing.
               | Alas!
        
               | jterrys wrote:
               | Shoutouts to GoG. I'll buy games off of them even if
               | they're on Steam. Making old games compatible and
               | offering DRM free downloads deserves respect.
        
               | RealStickman_ wrote:
               | I've started to migrate off of GOG again after switching
               | to linux.
               | 
               | The main reason was steam's investment into linux gaming
               | and I decided to support that.
               | 
               | Also, GOG have promised a linux client for years that
               | still hasn't materialised.
        
               | otachack wrote:
               | Mod support via Workshop is pretty sweet, too. I don't
               | use mods much but when I do, and the game supports it,
               | workshop makes it incredibly easy to plug an go.
        
               | jhanschoo wrote:
               | 9. Controller support
        
               | billfruit wrote:
               | And also provide region sensitive pricing, allowing
               | gamers in the third world to buy games often at very
               | affordable prices in their local currencies.
        
               | cma wrote:
               | > They allow you to generate steam keys (at no cost to
               | you) and sell them on your own website.
               | 
               | Only if you charge the same as Steam, i.e. you can't pass
               | the 27% (still pay payment processing) savings on to
               | customers, unless it is a limited time sale.
        
               | Lev1a wrote:
               | > you can't pass the 27% (still pay payment processing)
               | savings on to customers
               | 
               | Well yeah... whether you sell your game on Steam or via
               | Steam codes on your website, the soft-, hardware and
               | business infrastructure in the background handling the
               | sale and distribution of your game is the same. So why
               | would they let you use their infrastructure without
               | letting them have their cut? It wouldn't make any sense.
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | Well yes, they don't want you to generate code sand then
               | sell for less than you sell at steam because that's a
               | suicide level business model for them. But you can still
               | sell the codes yourself without cost to you. I don't
               | understand why what you're saying is relevant.
        
               | cma wrote:
               | You are bringing in new users and locking them into
               | Steam.
               | 
               | Steam only allows it because they want to be one
               | centralized hub with more and more people locked in
               | through social features, existing libraries,
               | recommendation traffic, etc., but it is only allowed if
               | it isn't price competition so that consumers can't feel
               | the weight of the 30% directly.
        
               | bluecatswim wrote:
               | I know devs who do free giveaways through steam keys once
               | in a while so presumably there is a provision in place
               | for that too.
        
               | DeathArrow wrote:
               | >0. They manage the most popular games store in the
               | western world.
               | 
               | I do not like the app store model. I rather buy from the
               | developer.
        
               | I_Byte wrote:
               | From my point of view the store model simply is more
               | convenient for consumers and worth the extra price. I
               | know that I stopped pirating games, music and movies when
               | I started using Steam, Spotify and Netflix.
        
               | bnegreve wrote:
               | > I know that I stopped pirating games, music and movies
               | when I started using Steam, Spotify and Netflix.
               | 
               | But is it a causal relation? You probably have a steadier
               | income now than you had back then.
        
               | pdpi wrote:
               | With games, an important part of the equation is DRM. I
               | prefer buying (DRM-free) things from GOG where possible,
               | but steam has provided developers with a decent bit of
               | DRM that is not too intrusive for consumers. There's
               | plenty of older games from before Steam became dominant
               | that I refused to buy because of their draconian DRM
               | solutions.
               | 
               | I have to say that Spotify completely changed the way I
               | listen to music, and I would really struggle to go back
               | to buying individual albums.
               | 
               | I think of the three, movies are the only one where the
               | "more disposable income" part of things is the dominant
               | component of why I changed behaviours.
        
               | revolvingocelot wrote:
               | This makes me think of GabeN's 2011 commentary on
               | expanding Steam into notoriously hax0r-infested Russia:
               | the smart money scoffed at the prospect, keenly aware
               | that the Russkies will just steal your product and why
               | not make it that much harder for them to get their hands
               | on it?
               | 
               | "Russia now outside of Germany is our largest continental
               | European market [...] The people who are telling you that
               | Russians pirate everything are the people who wait six
               | months to localize their product into Russia. It doesn't
               | take much in terms of providing a better service to make
               | pirates a non-issue." [0]
               | 
               | "We think there is a fundamental misconception about
               | piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not
               | a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a
               | product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from
               | the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal
               | provider says the product is region-locked, will come to
               | your country 3 months after the US release, and can only
               | be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the
               | pirate's service is more valuable." [1]
               | 
               | I for one absolutely have more money than I once did, but
               | to be honest I stopped pirating long before that in '09
               | or '10, once I realized that the then-ridiculous Humble
               | Bundles and Steam sales reduced the actual expenditure
               | required from "gotta save up" to a mere "gotta skip
               | buying takeout tonight". Of course the sales have
               | decreased in quality since then, but so too has the
               | number of games I want to play, and the time I can spend
               | doing it.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-
               | steams-suc...
               | 
               | [1] http://www.escapistmagazine.com/Valves-Gabe-Newell-
               | Says-Pira...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Knufferlbert wrote:
               | Don't know about I_Byte, though I could have written what
               | he has written.
               | 
               | I can now actually afford games (in the quantity I
               | consume them) now, so that question is fair. But
               | thankfully the video landscape fractured, now you better
               | have NowTv, Netflix, Prime and Disney+ and you still
               | can't watch all. I've started pirating again after 10
               | years or so of complete abstinence. So I think it's
               | causal (if you have money)
        
               | zinekeller wrote:
               | > I do not like the app store model. I rather buy from
               | the developer.
               | 
               |  _You_ , as a person might not like it and _you_ as a
               | developer might like to directly sell games, but as
               | pointed out above, Steam /Valve does make it easier for
               | the developer to be legally clear in terms of taxes,
               | refunds, etc. and also makes it easier to distribute by
               | leveraging their "warehouse" which _some_ do prefer.
        
               | plussed_reader wrote:
               | How do you feel about package managers?
        
               | meibo wrote:
               | They also have quite a bit of useful Middleware nowadays,
               | like Steam Input and Audio, which are both great.
               | 
               | Their controller wrapper obsoleted all of the messy third
               | party tools you used to need on Windows, and they have a
               | sharing platform for controller profiles.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | A whooping 1% in 9 years, great achievement.
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | In 891 years, Linux gaming will reach 100%. :)
        
           | 0des wrote:
           | That's a little optimistic, don't you think?
        
             | erikpukinskis wrote:
             | If it's an s-curve, then yes: it will never reach 100%.
             | 
             | But if it's an s-curve it will reach 70% much sooner than
             | 891 years.
             | 
             | In my opinion 1% of the Earth in 9 years is a triumph.
             | Electric cars are not there yet and people are quite
             | optimistic.
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | I understand your point, but I just want to say that
               | electric cars are well beyond 1% in markets where they
               | are for sale.
        
               | labster wrote:
               | But electric cars have existed since the 1880s, so it's
               | still a pretty slow growth rate overall.
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | True, but the technology has improved a lot recently.
               | Perhaps Linux on desktop needs to improve a lot too.
        
       | MaxGanzII wrote:
       | Steam is a trap though, no?
       | 
       | You buy software, but if you leave, you lose it all.
       | 
       | Is that correct? there's no way to retain what you've bought?
        
         | vadfa wrote:
         | Yes, it's like netflix/etc in that regard.
        
           | ohyeshedid wrote:
           | Steam is not like Netflix in any meaningful way to the end
           | user.
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | Its not a subscription service, so that's a strange analogy.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | I'm kind of surprised it doesn't have a subscription
             | service yet. Seems like an obvious way to go, and Game Pass
             | seems to have been fairly successful.
        
               | nicolaslem wrote:
               | Is Microsoft actually making money with Game Pass? I'm
               | guessing many users just subscribe for a month or two
               | when a new interesting game is released and cancel just
               | after they are done with it.
        
         | messe wrote:
         | _It depends_. Some games are DRM free, and those can be backed
         | up and kept wherever you wish. I can copy my Kerbal Space
         | Program directory anywhere, for example, and it works fine. I
         | use this to have several differently modded installs.
        
         | alex_duf wrote:
         | Not if you want to use your software outside of steam, no.
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | What you're saying is absolutely true, not sure why people are
         | trying to bury your comment.
        
         | slightwinder wrote:
         | There are DRM-free games on steam, but how many people maintain
         | backups of their games? And this is not limited to steam. Most
         | distribution these days on PC is digital, and even consoles
         | moved there. If you lose your account for whatever reason, you
         | will lose them all. Same problem with other content (video,
         | audio, etc.). As long as there is no law protecting the
         | customers from those things, it will remain a problem.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | You can absolutely retain what you've bought: all content is
         | saved in the steam/steamapps/common folder. If you want you can
         | rip those files out and run them separately with cracks or
         | Steam emulators like Goldberg, but the supporting
         | infrastructure and dependencies for games (like multiplayer
         | services, matchmaking, official support) will be lost. Many
         | games prefer to rely on Steam's platform and support for core
         | features by their own design.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | Steam is not a subscription service so I'm not sure what you
         | mean by "leave".
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | Google isn't a subscription service either, and people lose
           | access to their Google account for completely arbitrary
           | reasons, seemingly without recourse. I believe it's the same
           | risk
           | 
           | I do make a habit out of using the Backup Games option in the
           | Steam client, but I usually do that more as a caching
           | strategy to save myself the 30GB download in the future than
           | addressing the risk of my Steam account going poof
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Valve/Steam does not require games distributed through its
         | platform to use their SDK/DRM in any way. It's up to the
         | individual game developers if they set such a Steam a trap.
         | 
         | Valve doesn't even give an outright monetary incentive to do
         | it. i.e. Valve's 30% cut doesn't turn into 10% if you link in
         | Steamworks.
         | 
         | Though one could argue there's an indirect monetary incentive
         | created by locking away all the platform/social features behind
         | a wall accessed through their proprietary library. But last I
         | checked the DRM aspects of that library could be ignored while
         | using the rest of the platform. It does automatically stay
         | updated though, so they could turn Evil and force DRM @
         | initialization if they wanted, hypothetically speaking.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | throwawaymanbot wrote:
       | Why there isn't a Linux gaming module to make gaming for Linux
       | simpler for the developers is beyond me.
        
       | arendtio wrote:
       | This past week, I witness Steam/Proton making it possible to play
       | Age of Empires 4 just 4 days after its official release (and 2 of
       | those days were Saturday and Sunday).
       | 
       | That is just awesome.
        
         | mAritz wrote:
         | To be fair the public stress test beta already showed some
         | problems that needed to be fixed and people started working on
         | it back then.
         | 
         | But the point still stands, for big titles you don't have to
         | wait long for Proton support nowadays.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | A bit off topic, but what you think of the game itself? Big AoE
         | 2 fan here, and a bit on the edge if I should try it or not.
        
           | mdoms wrote:
           | It's more like AoE2 than 3, and in my opinion it's excellent.
        
           | arendtio wrote:
           | Being a big AoE2 fan myself (pre-ordered the original version
           | back in the day), I think you should try it.
           | 
           | For me, there is one major downside: The camera. I really
           | don't like the 3D camera. I think it could be worse. So you
           | can actually play the game without turning the camera, but
           | what I don't like is the perspective. Sometimes you have to
           | move to camera to another position, just to be able to click
           | on a unit. I found that much better with the classic dimetric
           | projection [1]. In addition, I like the art-style of AoE2 a
           | bit better.
           | 
           | However, after putting these things aside, I love how they
           | have adapted the AoE2 concepts. It still feels like an Age of
           | Empires. But then again different enough to be AoE4. So if
           | you like the changes from AoE1 to AoE2 then you might like
           | AoE4 ;-)
           | 
           | The civilizations play more diverse than those of AoE2 so
           | even with just 8, there is a lot to learn. The story telling
           | of the campaigns is also a bit different, but it still has
           | the concept of teaching some history. AoE4 actually has some
           | nice videos about armor and weapons of the time. The fortress
           | building in AoE4 feels a bit more like Stronghold with the
           | ability to move units on the walls and I think that is a good
           | thing :-)
           | 
           | So much after playing AoE4 for about 13 hours.
           | 
           | [1]: https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/16757
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | I think it is incredible that after all these years the best
       | target for Linux gaming is still a Windows compatibility shim.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | The Windows user base is too large, and the cost of maintaining
         | two versions is too costly for most publishers to even think of
         | making two versions. They instead learned how to write Windows
         | games that can be easily run under Linux with no or minimum
         | effort. Once a significant number of people will transition to
         | Linux because they have enough apps/games that do what they
         | want under Linux, and the gain in stability, privacy and cost
         | is worth the migration, major games being written only for
         | Linux may become a reality. Although this would require many
         | years, Microsoft has been well aware for a long time, and it's
         | the main reason they already aimed at taking control of Linux
         | before it was too late (WSL, VS Code, Edge for Linux, etc), and
         | it's very likely we'll see a Microsoft branded _free only as in
         | beer_ Linux distribution soon. Unfortunately, I 'm 100% sure
         | they will succeed.
        
           | thrower123 wrote:
           | It's just an interesting shift in the wind.
           | 
           | A few years ago I'd get flamed hard for suggesting that just
           | building Wine-compatible Windows builds was smarter than
           | trying to build native linux versions.
        
         | alex_smart wrote:
         | Why wouldn't it be? What were you hoping would happen?
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | Presumably, they were hoping for native Linux support.
        
             | edflsafoiewq wrote:
             | Going through a shim is better. It allows you to modify the
             | open-source shim to analyze and patch the closed source
             | game. This is why Proton can release fixes so fast.
             | 
             | It also lets each party care about the natural thing for
             | them: gamedevs care about windows and do a good job writing
             | windows code; winedevs care about linux and do a good job
             | writing linux code. Gamedevs don't care about linux so
             | their native linux code is crap.
        
               | arendtio wrote:
               | But in some cases it is also the reason why anti-cheat
               | software is such a pain and for multiplayer it sucks :-/
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Android and ChromeOS games make use of ISO C, ISO C++,
               | OpenGL, Vulkan, OpenSL, almost no one cares to port their
               | games to GNU/Linux, quite telling.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | Unrealistic for most games, there just aren't enough users.
             | 
             | With Proton now, there's probably more games playable on
             | Linux than MacOS, even though the latter as far higher
             | uptake among consumers.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Android and ChromeOS have native Linux support in what
             | concerns game development APIs, amount of games that were
             | ported to GNU/Linux, almost irrelevant.
        
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