[HN Gopher] The "Ultimate" ThinkPad (2020)
___________________________________________________________________
The "Ultimate" ThinkPad (2020)
Author : LaSombra
Score : 137 points
Date : 2021-11-04 17:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (calbryant.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (calbryant.uk)
| [deleted]
| crowbahr wrote:
| > I won't cover the installation steps as it's covered by a
| fairly comprehensive guide already available here:
| https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf
|
| Link is dead and 404s. The file directory 403s.
|
| Always frustrating to see people not mirror.
| ognyankulev wrote:
| Internet Archive Wayback Machine comes to rescue:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocast...
| matt_heimer wrote:
| Also, they lowercased some Xs. Its at
| https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf
| and linked to from the product page
| https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html
| eurusd wrote:
| I'm very happy with my old t440 bought for cheap on ebay, just
| replaced the screen with an IPS I highly recommend this blog,
| same kind of information than on the link given today, but
| focused on T440
| https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-g...
| tristor wrote:
| I bought a modified X230 on eBay several years ago, then upgraded
| the RAM to the maximum it would support and installed a 1TB SSD.
| It's been going strong for years only needing battery replacement
| and is my "car laptop" I use for running diagnostics, tuning, and
| in car data logging in my race cars. It's taken a SERIOUS beating
| and still performs.
|
| I wish I could buy another more modern variant, but the original
| seller is no longer on eBay. Anyone have a link to reliable
| sellers of retromodded X series?
| nix23 wrote:
| https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en
|
| or
|
| https://minifree.org/
| tristor wrote:
| It appears that these are just base older Thinkpads with
| Libreboot. That's great, but not what I am referring to.
| There are people in China who are retromodding older
| Thinkpads with new screens, motherboards, and CPUs. The X230
| I previously bought is basically the same thing as it left
| the factory originally, since it came with relatively decent
| hardware capabilities out of the box, but similar X220s are
| generally upgraded to at least a Haswell generation CPU /
| chipset. The big factor being that they are capable of
| supporting 16GB of RAM, which is a necessity for a modern
| laptop. An X200 can't have 16GB of RAM, and while 8GB usually
| works its not officially supported, the official maximum is
| 4GB.
|
| I'd like a newer retromodded X series because I have heard
| that some folks are bringing them up to new enough
| generations of hardware that they support nVME disks, which
| would be a significant performance advantage over a SATA SSD,
| and the power improvements would increase battery life in
| newer generation hardware as well.
|
| I'm fine if it's an X200 shell, but I don't want original
| X200 hardware.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| I love the form-factor of my X230 (which is my most-used personal
| computer), and I do wish I could have the X220 keyboard and a
| 1080p display. But there is nothing that could convince me to
| undertake a project like this.
|
| (My offspring has an X240, and it's terrible. And I hear that
| newer ThinkPads even have soldered-in RAM and glued-in batteries.
| I don't know what I'll do when my X230 wears out. Maybe bite the
| bullet and buy a Framework.)
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| For me, the entire _40 series was a disaster, especially with
| the removal of all physical trackpad /trackpoint buttons. I've
| actually seen a security architect repeatedly slam the client-
| provided T540 onto a desk in rage. Lenovo apparently saw the
| error of their ways with the _50 series and they had dedicated
| buttons back ever since.
|
| X250 was my favourite of that form-factor, as it still had
| external and internal battery replaceable easily by user. I
| seem to recall even upgrading the RAM. They can be found for
| $250ish CAD if you wait/bargain a little.
|
| I too however could never commit to a project like that; just
| don't have the time/energy/priority. I believe it's the type of
| thing you undertake for the process, not results :). I ended up
| being one of those fools who paid for a T470-but-with-good-
| keyboard, the T25 Anniversary model, and 3 years later I'm
| still a _very_ happy fool :).
| andix wrote:
| I replaced the trackpad in my t440s with a spare part from a
| t450s. No problem.
| ryantgtg wrote:
| I might be the only one that likes this t440s style
| trackpad. I have no desire to mod it. I love that you
| physically click it. Coming from a macbook, I was at first
| baffled that apparently you can't rest your thumb on it
| while moving the cursor, but I quickly got used to that.
| And now I can't stand macbook trackpads!
| andix wrote:
| Most of them have one soldered and one replaceable ram module.
| And so far (t440s, t450s, t470s) I could always easily replace
| the battery. No glue, just with a screwdriver and a prying tool
| to open the case.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Yes, the X270 was the last X series with a separate battery.
| All later models have only built-in batteries.
| nh2 wrote:
| Join my lobbying of frame.work to team up with TEX to bring a
| Thinkpad-like keyboard option to their laptop:
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/what-keyboard-options-will-be...
| icey wrote:
| I've done most of these upgrades minus the screen. The keyboard
| swap wasn't too bad. Coreboot was a little more scary because
| of flashing rom and things. The 220 keyboard is pretty nice,
| although I had to buy two because the first one I bought had a
| dead key :(
|
| My franken230 is my "thinking machine"... it's what I use any
| time I want to write something out because the experience of
| typing on it is so nice.
| gravypod wrote:
| I'd love to see what one of these would be like with a modern AMD
| APU or a modern arm chip. I'd love to have a laptop with days of
| battery life and decent performance
| sharkjacobs wrote:
| Are there ARM chips available which provide reasonable laptop
| performance and aren't proprietary Apple chips?
| maximilianburke wrote:
| I have an X230 that I've done a bunch of upgrades to. It's got
| CoreBoot, an FHD IPS screen, a quad core i7-3612QE, plus the
| usual memory and SSD upgrades. It's pretty neat, but I've been
| growing tired. I haven't refurbished the battery so its life off
| charger is abysmal, it's really chunky, the trackpad is awful,
| and every year or so I need to reflow the Nitrocaster mod solder
| joints because the display starts to go snowy.
|
| It was a fun project to put it all together but I find myself
| using it less and less as days go by.
| rvdginste wrote:
| A couple of months ago, I bought a used Thinkpad X200t in
| excellent condition. I knew about the popularity of the older
| Thinkpads and libreboot, and I was interested in a tablet pc
| because I wanted to use it to read and make notes, so when I came
| across that X200t (in excellent condition and good price) it was
| an easy decision to buy it.
|
| Its specs are low (256GB SSD, Core 2 duo, 4GB RAM, 1280x1024
| screen), but I find it very usable for browsing, reading and
| annotating pdfs. It runs Debian stable with KDE Plasma (the pen
| works well with krita, okular, xournal). The battery is old but
| is still holding a charge for several hours. I thought the screen
| would be annoyingly small, but I noticed that it is actually just
| fine for most web pages. I like the old 1280x1024 a lot more than
| the nowadays popular 1366x768. I really like it, it's also small
| and easy to travel with.
|
| What you can do with it, is however limited by the Core 2 Duo
| chip, and the amount of ram. It's not gonna run a heavy IDE, and
| as a developer that's a bit of a pity, but was also completely
| expected.
|
| I just checked how much people ask for old Thinkpads X200 and
| X200t and they really ask a lot for them, especially for ones
| that are already librebooted. That's amazing if you realize that
| those came out in 2008.
| fouc wrote:
| Why not upgrade the RAM?
| rvdginste wrote:
| The X200 officially only supports 2x2GB, but seems to work
| fine with 2x4GB, as long as it's the correct type of ram
| (single-sided if I remember correctly). So I need to find the
| right type of ram and it's something I plan to upgrade, but
| didn't get to it yet.
| rvense wrote:
| Mine has had 2x4 in it since app. 2010. I tested it in the
| shop so I knew it worked and right after I walked out of
| there I called one of my nerdy friends and we talked for a
| very long time about the an obscene amount of RAM I had.
|
| That machine developed a screen fault later, but I replaced
| it with another X200, which is still my personal machine. I
| have a T490 for work and the experience makes me want to
| stockpile the older models.
| dfox wrote:
| It is probably better to stick with 2G+4G combination, as
| in that case it is less picky about the correct type of the
| 4G module (as in, there are modules that work in this
| configuration, but not as 2x4G) and IIRC the chipset cannot
| address the entire 8GB of RAM anyway.
| kawsper wrote:
| My girlfriend runs her pet behavior business from a Thinkpad
| X230, it have taken a lot of drops so the next upgrade is to
| replace the shell, but I've kept it clean, tightened the screws a
| couple of times and replaced the keyboard when some keys fell
| off.
|
| It's a workhorse and it just keeps going, she really likes the
| form factor. In the beginning she didn't like the trackpoint, but
| now it's the only thing she uses.
| RealityVoid wrote:
| Mine seems to have just bit the dust. It boots to grub but then
| whenever some OS or bootable media tries going up the whole
| system resets. Memtest runs just fine though. Would love to
| have some system utility that boots and indexes the HW and
| tells me what is wrong, or some way to step through the Linux
| init process. Would be a fun way to learn about the underlying
| bring up process and also diagnose the issue.
|
| Probably not worth the effort considering how little monetary
| value my x230 has.
| [deleted]
| zibzab wrote:
| pro tip: you can also have it as an external keyboard.
|
| https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb...
|
| I first thought it would feel cramped but it turns out its work
| out better than full size keyboard if you are switching back
| and forth between laptop and desktop.
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| There's a whole cottage industry springing up around these.
| https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/
|
| In future I might pair one with a thinkcentre nano, e-ink or
| touchscreen and a big lithium battery.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| Unicomp also offered a Model M-style keyboard with a
| trackpoint, but it's unavailable right now due to part
| shortages. I kind of regret not getting one the last time I
| shopped for a keyboard, but if they show up again, I'll
| probably pull the trigger.
|
| https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
| cb321 wrote:
| Sadly, only a 2-button pointing device. :-)
| NoGravitas wrote:
| You might like the Shinobi keyboard from TEX Electronics?
| It's a mechanical keyboard in the format of an old-style
| ThinkPad keyboard.
|
| https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090
| nh2 wrote:
| I bought the Shinobi. It is excellent, especially for
| ThinkPad and TrackPoint lovers.
|
| Before the Shinobi, I used the Lenovo external Thinkpad
| keyboard [1] (old model, SK-8855), which is now extremely
| unavailable.
|
| I also have the X220 and 6 (!) replacement keyboard
| inlays -- they fit into both the X220, and the SK-8855. I
| bought that many to have a lifetime supply of quality
| keyboards in case they become unavailable (which they now
| are), but I always wished somebody would go and make an
| infinitely-repairable, mechanic external ThinkPad
| keyboard replacement independent of Lenovo's whims.
|
| Then TEX did exactly that.
|
| Also, the maker of the device, Justin Wu, is super
| responsive via email and answered all my technical
| questions.
|
| Now the only thing I need is frame.work to team up with
| TEX to bring such keyboards to laptops. I already lobbied
| for that here: https://community.frame.work/t/what-
| keyboard-options-will-be... Maybe you can help me lobby
| :)
|
| [1] What it looks like: https://picclick.de/Lenovo-
| Thinkpad-Keyboard-SK-8855-2828993...
| dfox wrote:
| The Lenovo generation of external UltraNav keyboard has one
| huge desing issue: the cable is conneted by USB micro B and
| thus it is not question of if, but when it will break. I
| thought about just soldering the cable directly into it, but
| there dose not seem to be a way to non-destructively
| disassemble the keyboard.
| zibzab wrote:
| There is a Bluetooth version too.
| CTOSian wrote:
| >tightened the screws a couple of times
|
| you may use a thread lock adhesive, make sure is the "blue"
| type ( can be easily removed) not the "red" one.
| echelon wrote:
| ThinkPads have been my workhorses for well over a decade, but I'm
| ready to shift from ThinkPad to Framework.
|
| Lenovo showed itself to be a bad custodian by loading up their
| laptops (albeit not the professional line) with adware.
|
| We need more companies like Framework, Pine Phone, Fair, etc.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| I don't want to start a religious keyboard war but does anybody
| know the actual rationale for the Ctrl Fn swap in ThinkPads?
|
| I agree that it is more ergonomic, but I am just curious if that
| is the actual reason for the swap? Or if there is some older
| legacy aspect or story behind it in the ThinkPads?
| nfoz wrote:
| I always set Caps Lock to act the same as Control. One of the
| benefits is that I don't have to care about the Fn/Ctrl
| placement.
| urza wrote:
| The fn on left bottom instead of ctrl is super annoying. I
| would avoid this keyboard as much as possible. Or at least
| remap it.
| criddell wrote:
| There's a bios option to swap them.
| zepearl wrote:
| Right - every Thinkpad that I ever had (6 or 7) always had
| that option.
| sc11 wrote:
| They originally put it there because it's easier to locate
| apparently:
|
| > The Fn key was originally placed by the ThinkPad designers in
| the lower left hand corner to make the key easier to locate
| when using the keystroke combinations. There was a rationale.
| This is especially handy for turning on the ThinkLight in the
| dark. Aim for the two extreme corners.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovo...
| zeveb wrote:
| The _best_ place for the control key is determined by two
| things: finger strength and relative frequency of use. The
| control key is typically used far more often than alt /meta,
| super or (for those lucky enough to have one) hyper; as such,
| it should be positioned so that it may be struck with a strong
| finger: an index or middle finger would be great, or perhaps a
| thumb (as we learnt to do with Macs back in the 80s).
|
| As such, it seems remarkable that most keyboards place it far
| outboard, where all one can do is strike it with the weakest
| finger of all. Even the superior alternative of caps lock as
| control is not as good as alt as control.
|
| All of which is to say that the control key placement on the
| ThinkPads, while imperfect, is better than on most laptops.
| urza wrote:
| Indeed, I have CTRL on left thumb as the innermost of my 3
| thumb cluster keys.
| avgcorrection wrote:
| Bottom left and bottom right (the control keys on both sides
| are useful) are fine positions for a lot of non-laptop
| keyboards, namely those keyboards where you can comfortably
| use the palm of your hand to hit control (learnt that from
| Xah Lee). It is problematic for laptop keyboards, however.
| em500 wrote:
| You got it backwards: Lenovo/IBM never made any swap, though
| several other manufacturers did. The fn key is still in the
| same location as when it first appeared in the ThinkPad 300 in
| 1992. That location was more common in older laptops (google
| some pics of early Compaq LTE or HP Onmibooks), but at some
| point all brands except IBM and Apple decided to place CTRL in
| the left corner.
| platz wrote:
| I've been using a T420. Would I gain much by moving to an
| X220/X230 ?
|
| I've heard they are slightly more performant, but I'm not sure
| how going from a 14' to a 12.5' screen will feel.
| zoomablemind wrote:
| An impressive display of not just the right to repair, but rather
| the will to improve!
|
| Reminded me of the time when I needed to restore network
| adapter's firmware in T43 after the eeprom apparently got reset
| by a minor spill around the touchpad. Luckily it was just water,
| but still the restoration was almost like a neurosurgery.
|
| Still hoping to find replacement batteries for the T43 and T430.
| pie42000 wrote:
| A lot of work to fix a shitty laptop. Why not just buy a well
| designed one in the first ppace
| benou wrote:
| because almost all of the others are unfixable shitty laptops?
| Old Thinkpads are really serviceable, I am still using my X61
| because I could update so much of its internals. This is not
| the case of anything else apart from frame.work, which is not
| available outside of US unfortunately (for me).
| 24t wrote:
| I got a long way upgrading an old X220 but recently purchased a
| 51nb X210 (modified X201 with a new mobo) and it's excellent. USB
| 3, heaps of RAM and a 3k x 2k display
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| Heraclitus, a Greek philosopher, is quoted as saying "change is
| the only constant in life."
|
| Cutting my teeth with computers from the 80s through to the
| 00s, it's bemusing to see people resorting to hotrodding
| ancient shells of computers that in times previous would have
| been replaced every two years.
|
| Maybe this slower rate of change is more sustainable, or maybe
| it is a temporary blip. At least the new Apple chips were good,
| but I'd rather wait for everybody else to catch up, however
| long it takes.
|
| I am increasingly uncomfortable with how slowly things are
| moving. I don't remember generations past complaining about
| decceleration, rather the opposite.
| kuschku wrote:
| It'd be awesome if new computers weren't missing so many
| desirable features.
|
| With a modded old thinkpad I can get 95Wh of battery, I can
| get another 75Wh in 10 seconds by swapping the external
| battery.
|
| I can get a 1440p 400nits matte display, even a version with
| HDR support or in 4K exists.
|
| I can get as much RAM as I desire, thunderbolt 3 support, USB
| ports, ethernet port, hdmi, smartcard reader, sd card reader,
| LTE support, charging via usb c and via the old style
| connector.
|
| I can use old docks and thunderbolt docks.
|
| All that's missing is upgrading the CPU and the thunderbolt
| port to more lanes.
|
| Which modern PC offers in 1.1kg-1.3kg 95Wh of battery, such a
| good display, such great reliability and connectivity, with
| 16 or 32GB of ddr4-3200mhz ram, 2TB NVMe storage, for less
| than 500EUR?
|
| Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer?
|
| If you could replace the motherboard with these chinese mods,
| and add the ThinkPad 25 keyboard (with minor mods it fits
| into the T470) you could turn a T470 into the ultimate
| ThinkPad.
| Joeri wrote:
| _Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer?_
|
| Excepting the price the m1 macbook air is a strong
| contender. It is roughly the width and depth of an x220 but
| half the height, 1.3 kg, P3 400 nits high dpi IPS display,
| insane battery life (to the point of not needing a spare),
| P series performance, trackpad so good I don't miss a
| trackpoint. It is missing the great keyboard and the ports
| though, although in practice the only thing I really miss
| going to the mba from a thinkpad is usb-a.
| kuschku wrote:
| Even if you ignore the keyboard and the ports, the M1 has
| significantly worse battery.
|
| The M1 13" has 58Wh, the M1 14" has 70Wh. And while the
| M1 does use less power in idle, under load it's just as
| power hungry as all the other processors, so for serious
| usage the battery would become a bottleneck.
|
| The aforementioned thinkpad can get 95Wh, and you can
| swap batteries if you carry a spare. That's 170Wh of
| power in just 1.6kg. You can get a LOT of mileage out of
| that.
|
| Now imagine an updated T470 with a more power efficient
| processor, e.g. a recent ryzen or an M1. Such a
| hypothetical device would last you forever, even if your
| system is at full load.
| turtlebits wrote:
| You can't compare battery capacities with the M1.
|
| Under load the M1 uses significantly less power than any
| current AMD or Intel CPU.
|
| I'm pretty sure the M1 would last longer than your T470
| on both batteries (95Wh + 75Wh).
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| Well thanks for that info about the keyboard, since you
| saying that, I've found this insane t25/t480 story:
| https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html
| sennight wrote:
| "There's a sucker born every minute." -- Somebody in the
| 1800s marketing Ye olde Apple(r) Pro Stand(tm).
|
| I expect the trend to continue, as individuals find it more
| and more difficult to keep up with the marketing induced
| conspicuous consumption cycles - they'll accidentally
| rationalize an already reasonable position: treating durable
| goods like consumables is stupid and should be scorned
| instead of aped.
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| It was not always conspicious consumption, but certainly
| yes consumer buying power has gone down and so has the
| price performance ratio, particularly over the last ten
| years.
|
| There were legitimate improvements between every generation
| of thinkpad I am aware of up to the Tm30 series, the Tm40
| series was a a sidegrade and so was each that followed up
| until the arrival of the Ryzen chips.
|
| key: Xm30/Tm30 with m for model - m = 2/4/5
| sennight wrote:
| I was speaking about the broader electronics market. I
| don't really view anything post Lenovo sale to be a
| thinkpad - there is practically zero design continuity. I
| think the [T|W]520 was the last IBM design, the product
| of a left seat right seat transition, where Lenovo's
| contribution was restricted to basically slapping their
| badge on it. After that the consistent method of
| segmenting by travel/performance design consideration was
| replaced by an explosion of confusing product offerings
| that seem to be a lot of distinction without difference.
| Oh, and they immediately (no joke, the first order of
| business) got rid of the most iconic thing about the
| brand: the nice keyboard. It really makes you wonder why
| they even bother pretending.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Surely this can be a business: A laptop that has the
| characteristics many of us value in an X220, but without
| violating Lenovo's IP. My priorities are the keyboard,
| reliability, legacy ports, replaceable/upgradable parts. I don't
| need the latest CPU nor the highest res screen, but these would
| be nice, and I appreciate they are of high importance to many.
|
| I'm a non-tech software exec and can have pretty much any laptop
| I want, but have been exclusively on one X220 after another since
| they came out. They kept getting cheaper and cheaper! I'm afraid
| to look now.
|
| At this point, it has been so long that I don't want to deal with
| the learning curve or annoyances of anything else, and would
| probably pay whatever it took for that privilege. At one point,
| my tech team talked me into a top-of-the line MacBook Pro with
| every option and dual boot, but I was fed up relearning every
| little shortcut and shuffled it along after two weeks.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Isn't that pretty much what Ministry of Freedom provide [1]? Or
| do you specifically refer to X220, and X220 only? Why don't
| they provide a X220?
|
| [1] https://minifree.org/
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Oh, I'd forgotten about that one! Right, those are X200 but
| she's apparently got an announcement soon. Maybe X220? If so,
| yep, that would do it.
|
| Why I got stuck on X220? Had been upgrading regularly since
| X40, but stopped when they got to the last of the V8
| Interceptors, know what I mean?
| andrewzah wrote:
| Well, going from a thinkpad x220 -> mbp is a big change. But I
| found that the dell xps 13" was very easy to migrate to, and
| wasn't agonizingly slow for compilation like the older
| thinkpads.
|
| I still like my x201 and x220's, but I relegate those to less
| intensive tasks. I have openbsd on one that I pretty much just
| use for writing articles or emails, which is nice.
|
| However for travel, the older thinkpads are just so incredibly
| bulky compared to the xps models or the new framework laptop.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| I don't really have any intensive tasks, unless you include
| VNC to the mothership, 80 browser tabs and all-day video
| calls from the hotel bar ;)
| nfoz wrote:
| Not quite the same but the most comparable product I'm aware of
| is the Panasonic "Let's Note" line, which intend to be durable
| business ultraportables with lots of ports and replaceable (if
| not hot-swappable) batteries
|
| Though I haven't used one; they'd be difficult to acquire in
| the West
|
| https://panasonic.jp/cns/pc/products/fv1j/
| zibzab wrote:
| You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big
| companies update their fleet.
|
| There is a huge modding community, but you don't really need to
| go that route if all you want is a reliable laptop. Although you
| might need to change the battery and fan, they're after all 8-10
| year old by now.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| The standard display in these devices is terrible though. You
| should assume you will want to swap it out for something
| better.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Simple rule of thumb, you always want the IPS display option.
| amlib wrote:
| I got lucky on mine and got an IPS panel... The seller
| never specified anything about the screen but from the
| photos I still had a hunch it could be an IPS panel. For a
| good while after I purchased it I would look all smug at my
| friends brand new notebooks that still had crappy TN panels
| over my old (but decked out!) x220
| holri wrote:
| I did not find a fan for my X230. Do you know a source?
| formerly_proven wrote:
| I feel like the X200 / X201 were almost perfect laptops in
| their time (apart from being hot asf). Every model after them
| has a catch or a few.
| xenocyon wrote:
| Where do you find well-made batteries? OEM batteries for my
| X230 are no longer available, and I've had a hard time
| understanding which third party batteries are safe.
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| GreenCell may have some in their inventory. Also Luxnote has
| for pretty much all the models, but they don't build them
| AFAIK.
| MrGilbert wrote:
| 0A36307 is the OEM battery you are searching for the X230. I
| managed to get one manufactured in 2020 from a reputable
| distributor in Germany - in an original Lenovo box. But yes,
| they come at a price. However, after a battery that
| overheated, I'm willing to take the hit on this one.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| Micro Center often has off-lease ThinkPads at very attractive
| prices. They may have scuffs and scratches, but they've always
| been solid performers. The TrackPoint seals the deal for me.
|
| I do have a recent Dell Inspiron, but I find I'm mostly using
| it like a desktop, with an external keyboard and trackball, and
| a second monitor or TV set plugged in. I just can't stand
| trackpads.
| smoldesu wrote:
| I bought a top-end T460s for $220 a few years ago. Insane price
| for the specs, I went ahead and maxed out the memory and ran
| all sorts of crazy stuff on it. It was a champion Hackintosh
| for a few months, but I decided to leave it on Linux like the
| rest of my devices after a while. Really solid machine for the
| price.
| CornCobs wrote:
| Fellow T460S-er! Is yours 4gb soldered or 8gb soldered? What
| ram did you install? I'm always worried about incompatibility
| with the soldered ram so I never upgraded
| smoldesu wrote:
| I had 4gb soldered, and since I'm a dork who doesn't care I
| went with a 16gb stick to match it. No complaints here, it
| runs Linux just as well as it did with 4 gigs, except now
| it has 15-20 more podman containers running :)
| jsperson wrote:
| I've got a T460 with 16GB. Didn't even know about potential
| ram incompatibility. Just ordered some from crucial and put
| it in.
| smoldesu wrote:
| AFAIK the non-s model has two DIMM slots, where the s
| models have only one. The "incompatibility" comes from
| not matching the soldered stick so you can have dual-
| channel memory, which is pretty hit-or-miss.
| bodge5000 wrote:
| > You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big
| companies update their fleet.
|
| At least for me, this is half the appeal of thinkpads. They
| cost so little for their performance, I have a mate that even
| got a couple for free.
|
| Most of mine I didn't even need to change anything. The fans
| still work nicely (sometimes given them a clean of course) and
| no real battery problems to speak of. Probably a good idea to
| anyway, but yeh, they're solid laptops even after all these
| years
| amarshall wrote:
| Link should probably be changed to remove the anchor part, as
| this jumps to the bottom.
| jacknews wrote:
| I thought ivyrain provided a way to reflash the bios without
| having to directly reprogramming the flash chip?
| ho_schi wrote:
| I also still use my ThinkPad X220 happily with Archlinux.
| Contrary to the author I've built in immediately an OEM IPS-Panel
| and a Bluetooth 4.0 chip from the next generation. I bought it
| very late in production cycle because I prefer to keep the
| classic keyboard with the blue enter-button. The only nasty thing
| is the USB 3.0 Port which immediately went into sleep states,
| workarounds are either to connect a device at boot-up or use
| powertop to wake it up. It is even possible to attach HiDPI
| displays via DisplayPort (always better than HDMI) but you will
| fallback to 30 Hz and the tiny GPU will have a hard time.
| Pros: * Mobile with A4/Letter form factor *
| Powerful, with a dock it replaces a desktop computer *
| Standard size keyboard * IPS screen is still state-of-the
| art * Replaceable battery * Works very well with
| Linux * With a i7 CPU even provides USB 3.0 Cons:
| * Modern ThinkPads provide a tighter case, especially the palm
| rest
| culopatin wrote:
| But that touchpad though... you must be a track point pro.
| ho_schi wrote:
| Of course my friend :)
|
| The TouchPad is the area below the palm rest? It requires
| users to interrupt the workflow. Probably some sort of design
| element or fidget? Never used.
| zuhsetaqi wrote:
| Never had an issue using the trackpad of my MacBook with my
| thumb without leaving the keyboard. That of course only
| works with a great trackpad which click everywhere on the
| surface which is the case with ForceTouch trackpads
| havkd wrote:
| I wish I could learn to use the clit :( Every time I put my
| finger there things end up all over the place.
| soperj wrote:
| Just turn off your trackpad.
| amlib wrote:
| I had to force me to use it for a few weeks until it
| clicked on me. It's a pressure sensitive device, not a
| joystick. You have to get used to put the right amount of
| pressure for the speed you want to move the pointer.
| melgafin wrote:
| I spent my childhood playing real-time strategy games
| with a ThinkPad TrackPoint. It's great.
| number6 wrote:
| Took me half a day to use it. Yes it's a bit sensitive
| but now I don't want to go back
| ho_schi wrote:
| For me it is a nipple. Anyone else?
| ryanlol wrote:
| Clit is generally considered to be the workplace-
| appropriate term, as some people have been offended by
| the "nipple".
| jonp888 wrote:
| Really? I didn't know 'clit' had any other meaning than
| as a colloquial abbreviation of clitoris.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Which is kind of bizarre as nipple is also associated
| with breastfeeding while clit well... it only has one
| function
| peakaboo wrote:
| I'm offended by those people being offended by the word
| nipple.
| pengaru wrote:
| > the tiny GPU will have a hard time
|
| If you move up to the X230, which your X220 keyboard can bolt
| right onto, you'll get a Vulkan-capable HD4000 iGPU.
| _nickwhite wrote:
| This is a cool "tinkering" project, but my "ultimate" ThinkPad
| would rarely see the BIOS boot screen, and sleep/suspend/wake
| would actually work properly.
| pelasaco wrote:
| Love my Thinkpad X220. I changed already keyboard, screen, some
| parts of its case.. It runs on SSD and it has 16GB RAM. I love
| it. The only issue is with CPU. Mine still running on a i5 and I
| would love to update it, to at least an i7.. is that possible?
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| The chip is soldered in, and the heat dissipation from the i7
| 2640m in the x220 model is woeful, 30-40 degrees at idle and
| then 90-96 under load typically. The fan will sit at
| 4500-5000rpm to get the temperature back below 50 degrees,
| depending on your thinkfan profiles in linux. A docking station
| makes matters worse.
|
| I cannot wait to replace mine.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I have a couple of used X201 Tablets with i7s that I picked
| up a few years ago to use as beaters, and I'll heartily agree
| that an i7 in a laptop is ill-suited for any kind of extended
| load[0]. If I set the BIOS to the "normal" setting, the 2.13
| GHz i7 L 640 throttles down to 1.2 GHz. There's also a
| "performance" setting; I don't recall what it throttled to
| when using it, but I do recall that it would let the CPU get
| up to 99degC, one degree shy of shutdown. They stay in the
| low 80s [edit: under load] in normal mode.
|
| If you only need short bursts of high performance, the i7 is
| fine.
|
| [0] YMMV, particularly with newer processors
| pelasaco wrote:
| but what would be the alternative? There is any CPU update
| that would be possible for us?
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| I don't think there is enough demand for anybody to make a
| replacement motherboard for the shell, maybe some person
| will undertake a solo project to do it for a lot of money.
|
| Apparently you can fit an x230 board in there but the x230
| does not accept x220 batteries and so you have to flash the
| EC too. I'm not massively impressed with the performance of
| the x230 i7 and the heat dissipation will remain a big
| problem, so I don't consider this swap worth the effort.
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_moth
| e...
|
| https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware
|
| There are more options if you want to get into soldering
| CPUs
|
| https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844
| i_am_proteus wrote:
| Perhaps an X2100 with an i7-10710u. [0] He's a one-man shop, so
| the lead times can, generously, be substantial.
|
| [0]https://www.xyte.ch/thinkpads/x210-x2100/
| alexvoda wrote:
| What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older
| 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have
| always seen a lot of praise for the older 7-row keyboards but it
| is not clear to me what makes them superior and too much time has
| passed since I used one to remember the feel. Is it the feel of
| the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is
| missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? They do indeed
| have a very iconic look.
|
| Personally I enjoy the clear and sharp separation of keys I can
| feel on so called chicklet keys. I never liked the keys with lean
| sloping edges. For the same reason I prefer XDA keycaps for
| mechanical kkeyboards. And I think the 6-row arrangement alows
| for a larger touchpad.
| luke2m wrote:
| All 4, but mostly the layout and shape. There is space on the
| keyboard deck, yet all sorts of buttons are hidden under fn,
| and for people who use pgup/dn / home/end, it is a big change.
| Also, I think the thinklight is vastly superior to the backlit
| keyboard for illuminating the whole area around it.
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| > Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the
| layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key
| travel?
|
| Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that
| the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing'
| for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is
| now a chore to look and see where they have moved things.
|
| The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is
| no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by
| the OS, such as the e550 and e330
| [deleted]
| alexvoda wrote:
| I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo
| tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think
| there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen
| on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a
| wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order:
|
| - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped,
| rectangular with one curved edge, island style
|
| - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4
|
| - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find
| verry annoying when this is not the case)
|
| - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys
|
| - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable
| (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and
| Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows
| more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End
|
| - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio,
| followed by display and then others
|
| - It's backlit
|
| - LED indicators for Caps and Fn
|
| A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3).
| I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as
| VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This
| version however has one key to much to the left of the
| spacebar.
|
| (1) https://m.media-
| amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_....
|
| (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-
| monitors/keyboa...
|
| (3) https://m.media-
| amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The
| aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me.
|
| > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar)
|
| Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like
| this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to
| know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory
| now.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps
| aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me
| to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
| eliasmacpherson wrote:
| That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
| sdfjkl wrote:
| They just feel great to type on. It's probably a combination of
| key travel, getting the scissor mechanism right, perfect force
| needed and the feel of the depressing and popping back up of
| the keys.
|
| The current gen is oookay to type on after you get used to it,
| but when I go back to my X220, the difference is that the X220
| is a _joy_ to type on, rather than just okay. They also seem to
| last pretty well, given how old that X220 is now.
|
| The 7 rows were nice because you had a few extra "media" keys
| without needing to Fn-combine (assuming you've set Fn to be off
| by default so you can use the function keys for your software).
| formerly_proven wrote:
| I'd say it's more about the "more buttons less fn" aspect,
| because I don't think Thinkpad keyboards are particularly great
| (though definitely some of the best stuff you can have in a
| laptop). I don't use touchpads unless I have to so I don't care
| about its size.
| [deleted]
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-11-05 23:01 UTC)