[HN Gopher] The "Ultimate" ThinkPad (2020)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The "Ultimate" ThinkPad (2020)
        
       Author : LaSombra
       Score  : 137 points
       Date   : 2021-11-04 17:00 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (calbryant.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (calbryant.uk)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | crowbahr wrote:
       | > I won't cover the installation steps as it's covered by a
       | fairly comprehensive guide already available here:
       | https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf
       | 
       | Link is dead and 404s. The file directory 403s.
       | 
       | Always frustrating to see people not mirror.
        
         | ognyankulev wrote:
         | Internet Archive Wayback Machine comes to rescue:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocast...
        
           | matt_heimer wrote:
           | Also, they lowercased some Xs. Its at
           | https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf
           | and linked to from the product page
           | https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html
        
       | eurusd wrote:
       | I'm very happy with my old t440 bought for cheap on ebay, just
       | replaced the screen with an IPS I highly recommend this blog,
       | same kind of information than on the link given today, but
       | focused on T440
       | https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-g...
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | I bought a modified X230 on eBay several years ago, then upgraded
       | the RAM to the maximum it would support and installed a 1TB SSD.
       | It's been going strong for years only needing battery replacement
       | and is my "car laptop" I use for running diagnostics, tuning, and
       | in car data logging in my race cars. It's taken a SERIOUS beating
       | and still performs.
       | 
       | I wish I could buy another more modern variant, but the original
       | seller is no longer on eBay. Anyone have a link to reliable
       | sellers of retromodded X series?
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | https://minifree.org/
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | It appears that these are just base older Thinkpads with
           | Libreboot. That's great, but not what I am referring to.
           | There are people in China who are retromodding older
           | Thinkpads with new screens, motherboards, and CPUs. The X230
           | I previously bought is basically the same thing as it left
           | the factory originally, since it came with relatively decent
           | hardware capabilities out of the box, but similar X220s are
           | generally upgraded to at least a Haswell generation CPU /
           | chipset. The big factor being that they are capable of
           | supporting 16GB of RAM, which is a necessity for a modern
           | laptop. An X200 can't have 16GB of RAM, and while 8GB usually
           | works its not officially supported, the official maximum is
           | 4GB.
           | 
           | I'd like a newer retromodded X series because I have heard
           | that some folks are bringing them up to new enough
           | generations of hardware that they support nVME disks, which
           | would be a significant performance advantage over a SATA SSD,
           | and the power improvements would increase battery life in
           | newer generation hardware as well.
           | 
           | I'm fine if it's an X200 shell, but I don't want original
           | X200 hardware.
        
       | NoGravitas wrote:
       | I love the form-factor of my X230 (which is my most-used personal
       | computer), and I do wish I could have the X220 keyboard and a
       | 1080p display. But there is nothing that could convince me to
       | undertake a project like this.
       | 
       | (My offspring has an X240, and it's terrible. And I hear that
       | newer ThinkPads even have soldered-in RAM and glued-in batteries.
       | I don't know what I'll do when my X230 wears out. Maybe bite the
       | bullet and buy a Framework.)
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | For me, the entire _40 series was a disaster, especially with
         | the removal of all physical trackpad /trackpoint buttons. I've
         | actually seen a security architect repeatedly slam the client-
         | provided T540 onto a desk in rage. Lenovo apparently saw the
         | error of their ways with the _50 series and they had dedicated
         | buttons back ever since.
         | 
         | X250 was my favourite of that form-factor, as it still had
         | external and internal battery replaceable easily by user. I
         | seem to recall even upgrading the RAM. They can be found for
         | $250ish CAD if you wait/bargain a little.
         | 
         | I too however could never commit to a project like that; just
         | don't have the time/energy/priority. I believe it's the type of
         | thing you undertake for the process, not results :). I ended up
         | being one of those fools who paid for a T470-but-with-good-
         | keyboard, the T25 Anniversary model, and 3 years later I'm
         | still a _very_ happy fool :).
        
           | andix wrote:
           | I replaced the trackpad in my t440s with a spare part from a
           | t450s. No problem.
        
             | ryantgtg wrote:
             | I might be the only one that likes this t440s style
             | trackpad. I have no desire to mod it. I love that you
             | physically click it. Coming from a macbook, I was at first
             | baffled that apparently you can't rest your thumb on it
             | while moving the cursor, but I quickly got used to that.
             | And now I can't stand macbook trackpads!
        
         | andix wrote:
         | Most of them have one soldered and one replaceable ram module.
         | And so far (t440s, t450s, t470s) I could always easily replace
         | the battery. No glue, just with a screwdriver and a prying tool
         | to open the case.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | Yes, the X270 was the last X series with a separate battery.
         | All later models have only built-in batteries.
        
         | nh2 wrote:
         | Join my lobbying of frame.work to team up with TEX to bring a
         | Thinkpad-like keyboard option to their laptop:
         | 
         | https://community.frame.work/t/what-keyboard-options-will-be...
        
         | icey wrote:
         | I've done most of these upgrades minus the screen. The keyboard
         | swap wasn't too bad. Coreboot was a little more scary because
         | of flashing rom and things. The 220 keyboard is pretty nice,
         | although I had to buy two because the first one I bought had a
         | dead key :(
         | 
         | My franken230 is my "thinking machine"... it's what I use any
         | time I want to write something out because the experience of
         | typing on it is so nice.
        
       | gravypod wrote:
       | I'd love to see what one of these would be like with a modern AMD
       | APU or a modern arm chip. I'd love to have a laptop with days of
       | battery life and decent performance
        
         | sharkjacobs wrote:
         | Are there ARM chips available which provide reasonable laptop
         | performance and aren't proprietary Apple chips?
        
       | maximilianburke wrote:
       | I have an X230 that I've done a bunch of upgrades to. It's got
       | CoreBoot, an FHD IPS screen, a quad core i7-3612QE, plus the
       | usual memory and SSD upgrades. It's pretty neat, but I've been
       | growing tired. I haven't refurbished the battery so its life off
       | charger is abysmal, it's really chunky, the trackpad is awful,
       | and every year or so I need to reflow the Nitrocaster mod solder
       | joints because the display starts to go snowy.
       | 
       | It was a fun project to put it all together but I find myself
       | using it less and less as days go by.
        
       | rvdginste wrote:
       | A couple of months ago, I bought a used Thinkpad X200t in
       | excellent condition. I knew about the popularity of the older
       | Thinkpads and libreboot, and I was interested in a tablet pc
       | because I wanted to use it to read and make notes, so when I came
       | across that X200t (in excellent condition and good price) it was
       | an easy decision to buy it.
       | 
       | Its specs are low (256GB SSD, Core 2 duo, 4GB RAM, 1280x1024
       | screen), but I find it very usable for browsing, reading and
       | annotating pdfs. It runs Debian stable with KDE Plasma (the pen
       | works well with krita, okular, xournal). The battery is old but
       | is still holding a charge for several hours. I thought the screen
       | would be annoyingly small, but I noticed that it is actually just
       | fine for most web pages. I like the old 1280x1024 a lot more than
       | the nowadays popular 1366x768. I really like it, it's also small
       | and easy to travel with.
       | 
       | What you can do with it, is however limited by the Core 2 Duo
       | chip, and the amount of ram. It's not gonna run a heavy IDE, and
       | as a developer that's a bit of a pity, but was also completely
       | expected.
       | 
       | I just checked how much people ask for old Thinkpads X200 and
       | X200t and they really ask a lot for them, especially for ones
       | that are already librebooted. That's amazing if you realize that
       | those came out in 2008.
        
         | fouc wrote:
         | Why not upgrade the RAM?
        
           | rvdginste wrote:
           | The X200 officially only supports 2x2GB, but seems to work
           | fine with 2x4GB, as long as it's the correct type of ram
           | (single-sided if I remember correctly). So I need to find the
           | right type of ram and it's something I plan to upgrade, but
           | didn't get to it yet.
        
             | rvense wrote:
             | Mine has had 2x4 in it since app. 2010. I tested it in the
             | shop so I knew it worked and right after I walked out of
             | there I called one of my nerdy friends and we talked for a
             | very long time about the an obscene amount of RAM I had.
             | 
             | That machine developed a screen fault later, but I replaced
             | it with another X200, which is still my personal machine. I
             | have a T490 for work and the experience makes me want to
             | stockpile the older models.
        
             | dfox wrote:
             | It is probably better to stick with 2G+4G combination, as
             | in that case it is less picky about the correct type of the
             | 4G module (as in, there are modules that work in this
             | configuration, but not as 2x4G) and IIRC the chipset cannot
             | address the entire 8GB of RAM anyway.
        
       | kawsper wrote:
       | My girlfriend runs her pet behavior business from a Thinkpad
       | X230, it have taken a lot of drops so the next upgrade is to
       | replace the shell, but I've kept it clean, tightened the screws a
       | couple of times and replaced the keyboard when some keys fell
       | off.
       | 
       | It's a workhorse and it just keeps going, she really likes the
       | form factor. In the beginning she didn't like the trackpoint, but
       | now it's the only thing she uses.
        
         | RealityVoid wrote:
         | Mine seems to have just bit the dust. It boots to grub but then
         | whenever some OS or bootable media tries going up the whole
         | system resets. Memtest runs just fine though. Would love to
         | have some system utility that boots and indexes the HW and
         | tells me what is wrong, or some way to step through the Linux
         | init process. Would be a fun way to learn about the underlying
         | bring up process and also diagnose the issue.
         | 
         | Probably not worth the effort considering how little monetary
         | value my x230 has.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | zibzab wrote:
         | pro tip: you can also have it as an external keyboard.
         | 
         | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb...
         | 
         | I first thought it would feel cramped but it turns out its work
         | out better than full size keyboard if you are switching back
         | and forth between laptop and desktop.
        
           | eliasmacpherson wrote:
           | There's a whole cottage industry springing up around these.
           | https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/
           | 
           | In future I might pair one with a thinkcentre nano, e-ink or
           | touchscreen and a big lithium battery.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | Unicomp also offered a Model M-style keyboard with a
           | trackpoint, but it's unavailable right now due to part
           | shortages. I kind of regret not getting one the last time I
           | shopped for a keyboard, but if they show up again, I'll
           | probably pull the trigger.
           | 
           | https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
        
             | cb321 wrote:
             | Sadly, only a 2-button pointing device. :-)
        
             | NoGravitas wrote:
             | You might like the Shinobi keyboard from TEX Electronics?
             | It's a mechanical keyboard in the format of an old-style
             | ThinkPad keyboard.
             | 
             | https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090
        
               | nh2 wrote:
               | I bought the Shinobi. It is excellent, especially for
               | ThinkPad and TrackPoint lovers.
               | 
               | Before the Shinobi, I used the Lenovo external Thinkpad
               | keyboard [1] (old model, SK-8855), which is now extremely
               | unavailable.
               | 
               | I also have the X220 and 6 (!) replacement keyboard
               | inlays -- they fit into both the X220, and the SK-8855. I
               | bought that many to have a lifetime supply of quality
               | keyboards in case they become unavailable (which they now
               | are), but I always wished somebody would go and make an
               | infinitely-repairable, mechanic external ThinkPad
               | keyboard replacement independent of Lenovo's whims.
               | 
               | Then TEX did exactly that.
               | 
               | Also, the maker of the device, Justin Wu, is super
               | responsive via email and answered all my technical
               | questions.
               | 
               | Now the only thing I need is frame.work to team up with
               | TEX to bring such keyboards to laptops. I already lobbied
               | for that here: https://community.frame.work/t/what-
               | keyboard-options-will-be... Maybe you can help me lobby
               | :)
               | 
               | [1] What it looks like: https://picclick.de/Lenovo-
               | Thinkpad-Keyboard-SK-8855-2828993...
        
           | dfox wrote:
           | The Lenovo generation of external UltraNav keyboard has one
           | huge desing issue: the cable is conneted by USB micro B and
           | thus it is not question of if, but when it will break. I
           | thought about just soldering the cable directly into it, but
           | there dose not seem to be a way to non-destructively
           | disassemble the keyboard.
        
             | zibzab wrote:
             | There is a Bluetooth version too.
        
         | CTOSian wrote:
         | >tightened the screws a couple of times
         | 
         | you may use a thread lock adhesive, make sure is the "blue"
         | type ( can be easily removed) not the "red" one.
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | ThinkPads have been my workhorses for well over a decade, but I'm
       | ready to shift from ThinkPad to Framework.
       | 
       | Lenovo showed itself to be a bad custodian by loading up their
       | laptops (albeit not the professional line) with adware.
       | 
       | We need more companies like Framework, Pine Phone, Fair, etc.
        
       | DoingIsLearning wrote:
       | I don't want to start a religious keyboard war but does anybody
       | know the actual rationale for the Ctrl Fn swap in ThinkPads?
       | 
       | I agree that it is more ergonomic, but I am just curious if that
       | is the actual reason for the swap? Or if there is some older
       | legacy aspect or story behind it in the ThinkPads?
        
         | nfoz wrote:
         | I always set Caps Lock to act the same as Control. One of the
         | benefits is that I don't have to care about the Fn/Ctrl
         | placement.
        
         | urza wrote:
         | The fn on left bottom instead of ctrl is super annoying. I
         | would avoid this keyboard as much as possible. Or at least
         | remap it.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | There's a bios option to swap them.
        
             | zepearl wrote:
             | Right - every Thinkpad that I ever had (6 or 7) always had
             | that option.
        
         | sc11 wrote:
         | They originally put it there because it's easier to locate
         | apparently:
         | 
         | > The Fn key was originally placed by the ThinkPad designers in
         | the lower left hand corner to make the key easier to locate
         | when using the keystroke combinations. There was a rationale.
         | This is especially handy for turning on the ThinkLight in the
         | dark. Aim for the two extreme corners.
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovo...
        
         | zeveb wrote:
         | The _best_ place for the control key is determined by two
         | things: finger strength and relative frequency of use. The
         | control key is typically used far more often than alt /meta,
         | super or (for those lucky enough to have one) hyper; as such,
         | it should be positioned so that it may be struck with a strong
         | finger: an index or middle finger would be great, or perhaps a
         | thumb (as we learnt to do with Macs back in the 80s).
         | 
         | As such, it seems remarkable that most keyboards place it far
         | outboard, where all one can do is strike it with the weakest
         | finger of all. Even the superior alternative of caps lock as
         | control is not as good as alt as control.
         | 
         | All of which is to say that the control key placement on the
         | ThinkPads, while imperfect, is better than on most laptops.
        
           | urza wrote:
           | Indeed, I have CTRL on left thumb as the innermost of my 3
           | thumb cluster keys.
        
           | avgcorrection wrote:
           | Bottom left and bottom right (the control keys on both sides
           | are useful) are fine positions for a lot of non-laptop
           | keyboards, namely those keyboards where you can comfortably
           | use the palm of your hand to hit control (learnt that from
           | Xah Lee). It is problematic for laptop keyboards, however.
        
         | em500 wrote:
         | You got it backwards: Lenovo/IBM never made any swap, though
         | several other manufacturers did. The fn key is still in the
         | same location as when it first appeared in the ThinkPad 300 in
         | 1992. That location was more common in older laptops (google
         | some pics of early Compaq LTE or HP Onmibooks), but at some
         | point all brands except IBM and Apple decided to place CTRL in
         | the left corner.
        
       | platz wrote:
       | I've been using a T420. Would I gain much by moving to an
       | X220/X230 ?
       | 
       | I've heard they are slightly more performant, but I'm not sure
       | how going from a 14' to a 12.5' screen will feel.
        
       | zoomablemind wrote:
       | An impressive display of not just the right to repair, but rather
       | the will to improve!
       | 
       | Reminded me of the time when I needed to restore network
       | adapter's firmware in T43 after the eeprom apparently got reset
       | by a minor spill around the touchpad. Luckily it was just water,
       | but still the restoration was almost like a neurosurgery.
       | 
       | Still hoping to find replacement batteries for the T43 and T430.
        
       | pie42000 wrote:
       | A lot of work to fix a shitty laptop. Why not just buy a well
       | designed one in the first ppace
        
         | benou wrote:
         | because almost all of the others are unfixable shitty laptops?
         | Old Thinkpads are really serviceable, I am still using my X61
         | because I could update so much of its internals. This is not
         | the case of anything else apart from frame.work, which is not
         | available outside of US unfortunately (for me).
        
       | 24t wrote:
       | I got a long way upgrading an old X220 but recently purchased a
       | 51nb X210 (modified X201 with a new mobo) and it's excellent. USB
       | 3, heaps of RAM and a 3k x 2k display
        
         | eliasmacpherson wrote:
         | Heraclitus, a Greek philosopher, is quoted as saying "change is
         | the only constant in life."
         | 
         | Cutting my teeth with computers from the 80s through to the
         | 00s, it's bemusing to see people resorting to hotrodding
         | ancient shells of computers that in times previous would have
         | been replaced every two years.
         | 
         | Maybe this slower rate of change is more sustainable, or maybe
         | it is a temporary blip. At least the new Apple chips were good,
         | but I'd rather wait for everybody else to catch up, however
         | long it takes.
         | 
         | I am increasingly uncomfortable with how slowly things are
         | moving. I don't remember generations past complaining about
         | decceleration, rather the opposite.
        
           | kuschku wrote:
           | It'd be awesome if new computers weren't missing so many
           | desirable features.
           | 
           | With a modded old thinkpad I can get 95Wh of battery, I can
           | get another 75Wh in 10 seconds by swapping the external
           | battery.
           | 
           | I can get a 1440p 400nits matte display, even a version with
           | HDR support or in 4K exists.
           | 
           | I can get as much RAM as I desire, thunderbolt 3 support, USB
           | ports, ethernet port, hdmi, smartcard reader, sd card reader,
           | LTE support, charging via usb c and via the old style
           | connector.
           | 
           | I can use old docks and thunderbolt docks.
           | 
           | All that's missing is upgrading the CPU and the thunderbolt
           | port to more lanes.
           | 
           | Which modern PC offers in 1.1kg-1.3kg 95Wh of battery, such a
           | good display, such great reliability and connectivity, with
           | 16 or 32GB of ddr4-3200mhz ram, 2TB NVMe storage, for less
           | than 500EUR?
           | 
           | Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer?
           | 
           | If you could replace the motherboard with these chinese mods,
           | and add the ThinkPad 25 keyboard (with minor mods it fits
           | into the T470) you could turn a T470 into the ultimate
           | ThinkPad.
        
             | Joeri wrote:
             | _Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer?_
             | 
             | Excepting the price the m1 macbook air is a strong
             | contender. It is roughly the width and depth of an x220 but
             | half the height, 1.3 kg, P3 400 nits high dpi IPS display,
             | insane battery life (to the point of not needing a spare),
             | P series performance, trackpad so good I don't miss a
             | trackpoint. It is missing the great keyboard and the ports
             | though, although in practice the only thing I really miss
             | going to the mba from a thinkpad is usb-a.
        
               | kuschku wrote:
               | Even if you ignore the keyboard and the ports, the M1 has
               | significantly worse battery.
               | 
               | The M1 13" has 58Wh, the M1 14" has 70Wh. And while the
               | M1 does use less power in idle, under load it's just as
               | power hungry as all the other processors, so for serious
               | usage the battery would become a bottleneck.
               | 
               | The aforementioned thinkpad can get 95Wh, and you can
               | swap batteries if you carry a spare. That's 170Wh of
               | power in just 1.6kg. You can get a LOT of mileage out of
               | that.
               | 
               | Now imagine an updated T470 with a more power efficient
               | processor, e.g. a recent ryzen or an M1. Such a
               | hypothetical device would last you forever, even if your
               | system is at full load.
        
               | turtlebits wrote:
               | You can't compare battery capacities with the M1.
               | 
               | Under load the M1 uses significantly less power than any
               | current AMD or Intel CPU.
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure the M1 would last longer than your T470
               | on both batteries (95Wh + 75Wh).
        
             | eliasmacpherson wrote:
             | Well thanks for that info about the keyboard, since you
             | saying that, I've found this insane t25/t480 story:
             | https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html
        
           | sennight wrote:
           | "There's a sucker born every minute." -- Somebody in the
           | 1800s marketing Ye olde Apple(r) Pro Stand(tm).
           | 
           | I expect the trend to continue, as individuals find it more
           | and more difficult to keep up with the marketing induced
           | conspicuous consumption cycles - they'll accidentally
           | rationalize an already reasonable position: treating durable
           | goods like consumables is stupid and should be scorned
           | instead of aped.
        
             | eliasmacpherson wrote:
             | It was not always conspicious consumption, but certainly
             | yes consumer buying power has gone down and so has the
             | price performance ratio, particularly over the last ten
             | years.
             | 
             | There were legitimate improvements between every generation
             | of thinkpad I am aware of up to the Tm30 series, the Tm40
             | series was a a sidegrade and so was each that followed up
             | until the arrival of the Ryzen chips.
             | 
             | key: Xm30/Tm30 with m for model - m = 2/4/5
        
               | sennight wrote:
               | I was speaking about the broader electronics market. I
               | don't really view anything post Lenovo sale to be a
               | thinkpad - there is practically zero design continuity. I
               | think the [T|W]520 was the last IBM design, the product
               | of a left seat right seat transition, where Lenovo's
               | contribution was restricted to basically slapping their
               | badge on it. After that the consistent method of
               | segmenting by travel/performance design consideration was
               | replaced by an explosion of confusing product offerings
               | that seem to be a lot of distinction without difference.
               | Oh, and they immediately (no joke, the first order of
               | business) got rid of the most iconic thing about the
               | brand: the nice keyboard. It really makes you wonder why
               | they even bother pretending.
        
       | Kaibeezy wrote:
       | Surely this can be a business: A laptop that has the
       | characteristics many of us value in an X220, but without
       | violating Lenovo's IP. My priorities are the keyboard,
       | reliability, legacy ports, replaceable/upgradable parts. I don't
       | need the latest CPU nor the highest res screen, but these would
       | be nice, and I appreciate they are of high importance to many.
       | 
       | I'm a non-tech software exec and can have pretty much any laptop
       | I want, but have been exclusively on one X220 after another since
       | they came out. They kept getting cheaper and cheaper! I'm afraid
       | to look now.
       | 
       | At this point, it has been so long that I don't want to deal with
       | the learning curve or annoyances of anything else, and would
       | probably pay whatever it took for that privilege. At one point,
       | my tech team talked me into a top-of-the line MacBook Pro with
       | every option and dual boot, but I was fed up relearning every
       | little shortcut and shuffled it along after two weeks.
        
         | Fnoord wrote:
         | Isn't that pretty much what Ministry of Freedom provide [1]? Or
         | do you specifically refer to X220, and X220 only? Why don't
         | they provide a X220?
         | 
         | [1] https://minifree.org/
        
           | Kaibeezy wrote:
           | Oh, I'd forgotten about that one! Right, those are X200 but
           | she's apparently got an announcement soon. Maybe X220? If so,
           | yep, that would do it.
           | 
           | Why I got stuck on X220? Had been upgrading regularly since
           | X40, but stopped when they got to the last of the V8
           | Interceptors, know what I mean?
        
         | andrewzah wrote:
         | Well, going from a thinkpad x220 -> mbp is a big change. But I
         | found that the dell xps 13" was very easy to migrate to, and
         | wasn't agonizingly slow for compilation like the older
         | thinkpads.
         | 
         | I still like my x201 and x220's, but I relegate those to less
         | intensive tasks. I have openbsd on one that I pretty much just
         | use for writing articles or emails, which is nice.
         | 
         | However for travel, the older thinkpads are just so incredibly
         | bulky compared to the xps models or the new framework laptop.
        
           | Kaibeezy wrote:
           | I don't really have any intensive tasks, unless you include
           | VNC to the mothership, 80 browser tabs and all-day video
           | calls from the hotel bar ;)
        
         | nfoz wrote:
         | Not quite the same but the most comparable product I'm aware of
         | is the Panasonic "Let's Note" line, which intend to be durable
         | business ultraportables with lots of ports and replaceable (if
         | not hot-swappable) batteries
         | 
         | Though I haven't used one; they'd be difficult to acquire in
         | the West
         | 
         | https://panasonic.jp/cns/pc/products/fv1j/
        
       | zibzab wrote:
       | You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big
       | companies update their fleet.
       | 
       | There is a huge modding community, but you don't really need to
       | go that route if all you want is a reliable laptop. Although you
       | might need to change the battery and fan, they're after all 8-10
       | year old by now.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | The standard display in these devices is terrible though. You
         | should assume you will want to swap it out for something
         | better.
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | Simple rule of thumb, you always want the IPS display option.
        
             | amlib wrote:
             | I got lucky on mine and got an IPS panel... The seller
             | never specified anything about the screen but from the
             | photos I still had a hunch it could be an IPS panel. For a
             | good while after I purchased it I would look all smug at my
             | friends brand new notebooks that still had crappy TN panels
             | over my old (but decked out!) x220
        
         | holri wrote:
         | I did not find a fan for my X230. Do you know a source?
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | I feel like the X200 / X201 were almost perfect laptops in
         | their time (apart from being hot asf). Every model after them
         | has a catch or a few.
        
         | xenocyon wrote:
         | Where do you find well-made batteries? OEM batteries for my
         | X230 are no longer available, and I've had a hard time
         | understanding which third party batteries are safe.
        
           | spaniard89277 wrote:
           | GreenCell may have some in their inventory. Also Luxnote has
           | for pretty much all the models, but they don't build them
           | AFAIK.
        
           | MrGilbert wrote:
           | 0A36307 is the OEM battery you are searching for the X230. I
           | managed to get one manufactured in 2020 from a reputable
           | distributor in Germany - in an original Lenovo box. But yes,
           | they come at a price. However, after a battery that
           | overheated, I'm willing to take the hit on this one.
        
         | flyinghamster wrote:
         | Micro Center often has off-lease ThinkPads at very attractive
         | prices. They may have scuffs and scratches, but they've always
         | been solid performers. The TrackPoint seals the deal for me.
         | 
         | I do have a recent Dell Inspiron, but I find I'm mostly using
         | it like a desktop, with an external keyboard and trackball, and
         | a second monitor or TV set plugged in. I just can't stand
         | trackpads.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I bought a top-end T460s for $220 a few years ago. Insane price
         | for the specs, I went ahead and maxed out the memory and ran
         | all sorts of crazy stuff on it. It was a champion Hackintosh
         | for a few months, but I decided to leave it on Linux like the
         | rest of my devices after a while. Really solid machine for the
         | price.
        
           | CornCobs wrote:
           | Fellow T460S-er! Is yours 4gb soldered or 8gb soldered? What
           | ram did you install? I'm always worried about incompatibility
           | with the soldered ram so I never upgraded
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | I had 4gb soldered, and since I'm a dork who doesn't care I
             | went with a 16gb stick to match it. No complaints here, it
             | runs Linux just as well as it did with 4 gigs, except now
             | it has 15-20 more podman containers running :)
        
             | jsperson wrote:
             | I've got a T460 with 16GB. Didn't even know about potential
             | ram incompatibility. Just ordered some from crucial and put
             | it in.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | AFAIK the non-s model has two DIMM slots, where the s
               | models have only one. The "incompatibility" comes from
               | not matching the soldered stick so you can have dual-
               | channel memory, which is pretty hit-or-miss.
        
         | bodge5000 wrote:
         | > You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big
         | companies update their fleet.
         | 
         | At least for me, this is half the appeal of thinkpads. They
         | cost so little for their performance, I have a mate that even
         | got a couple for free.
         | 
         | Most of mine I didn't even need to change anything. The fans
         | still work nicely (sometimes given them a clean of course) and
         | no real battery problems to speak of. Probably a good idea to
         | anyway, but yeh, they're solid laptops even after all these
         | years
        
       | amarshall wrote:
       | Link should probably be changed to remove the anchor part, as
       | this jumps to the bottom.
        
       | jacknews wrote:
       | I thought ivyrain provided a way to reflash the bios without
       | having to directly reprogramming the flash chip?
        
       | ho_schi wrote:
       | I also still use my ThinkPad X220 happily with Archlinux.
       | Contrary to the author I've built in immediately an OEM IPS-Panel
       | and a Bluetooth 4.0 chip from the next generation. I bought it
       | very late in production cycle because I prefer to keep the
       | classic keyboard with the blue enter-button. The only nasty thing
       | is the USB 3.0 Port which immediately went into sleep states,
       | workarounds are either to connect a device at boot-up or use
       | powertop to wake it up. It is even possible to attach HiDPI
       | displays via DisplayPort (always better than HDMI) but you will
       | fallback to 30 Hz and the tiny GPU will have a hard time.
       | Pros:         * Mobile with A4/Letter form factor        *
       | Powerful, with a dock it replaces a desktop computer       *
       | Standard size keyboard       * IPS screen is still state-of-the
       | art       * Replaceable battery       * Works very well with
       | Linux       * With a i7 CPU even provides USB 3.0       Cons:
       | * Modern ThinkPads provide a tighter case, especially the palm
       | rest
        
         | culopatin wrote:
         | But that touchpad though... you must be a track point pro.
        
           | ho_schi wrote:
           | Of course my friend :)
           | 
           | The TouchPad is the area below the palm rest? It requires
           | users to interrupt the workflow. Probably some sort of design
           | element or fidget? Never used.
        
             | zuhsetaqi wrote:
             | Never had an issue using the trackpad of my MacBook with my
             | thumb without leaving the keyboard. That of course only
             | works with a great trackpad which click everywhere on the
             | surface which is the case with ForceTouch trackpads
        
             | havkd wrote:
             | I wish I could learn to use the clit :( Every time I put my
             | finger there things end up all over the place.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | Just turn off your trackpad.
        
               | amlib wrote:
               | I had to force me to use it for a few weeks until it
               | clicked on me. It's a pressure sensitive device, not a
               | joystick. You have to get used to put the right amount of
               | pressure for the speed you want to move the pointer.
        
               | melgafin wrote:
               | I spent my childhood playing real-time strategy games
               | with a ThinkPad TrackPoint. It's great.
        
               | number6 wrote:
               | Took me half a day to use it. Yes it's a bit sensitive
               | but now I don't want to go back
        
               | ho_schi wrote:
               | For me it is a nipple. Anyone else?
        
               | ryanlol wrote:
               | Clit is generally considered to be the workplace-
               | appropriate term, as some people have been offended by
               | the "nipple".
        
               | jonp888 wrote:
               | Really? I didn't know 'clit' had any other meaning than
               | as a colloquial abbreviation of clitoris.
        
               | elzbardico wrote:
               | Which is kind of bizarre as nipple is also associated
               | with breastfeeding while clit well... it only has one
               | function
        
               | peakaboo wrote:
               | I'm offended by those people being offended by the word
               | nipple.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | > the tiny GPU will have a hard time
         | 
         | If you move up to the X230, which your X220 keyboard can bolt
         | right onto, you'll get a Vulkan-capable HD4000 iGPU.
        
       | _nickwhite wrote:
       | This is a cool "tinkering" project, but my "ultimate" ThinkPad
       | would rarely see the BIOS boot screen, and sleep/suspend/wake
       | would actually work properly.
        
       | pelasaco wrote:
       | Love my Thinkpad X220. I changed already keyboard, screen, some
       | parts of its case.. It runs on SSD and it has 16GB RAM. I love
       | it. The only issue is with CPU. Mine still running on a i5 and I
       | would love to update it, to at least an i7.. is that possible?
        
         | eliasmacpherson wrote:
         | The chip is soldered in, and the heat dissipation from the i7
         | 2640m in the x220 model is woeful, 30-40 degrees at idle and
         | then 90-96 under load typically. The fan will sit at
         | 4500-5000rpm to get the temperature back below 50 degrees,
         | depending on your thinkfan profiles in linux. A docking station
         | makes matters worse.
         | 
         | I cannot wait to replace mine.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | I have a couple of used X201 Tablets with i7s that I picked
           | up a few years ago to use as beaters, and I'll heartily agree
           | that an i7 in a laptop is ill-suited for any kind of extended
           | load[0]. If I set the BIOS to the "normal" setting, the 2.13
           | GHz i7 L 640 throttles down to 1.2 GHz. There's also a
           | "performance" setting; I don't recall what it throttled to
           | when using it, but I do recall that it would let the CPU get
           | up to 99degC, one degree shy of shutdown. They stay in the
           | low 80s [edit: under load] in normal mode.
           | 
           | If you only need short bursts of high performance, the i7 is
           | fine.
           | 
           | [0] YMMV, particularly with newer processors
        
           | pelasaco wrote:
           | but what would be the alternative? There is any CPU update
           | that would be possible for us?
        
             | eliasmacpherson wrote:
             | I don't think there is enough demand for anybody to make a
             | replacement motherboard for the shell, maybe some person
             | will undertake a solo project to do it for a lot of money.
             | 
             | Apparently you can fit an x230 board in there but the x230
             | does not accept x220 batteries and so you have to flash the
             | EC too. I'm not massively impressed with the performance of
             | the x230 i7 and the heat dissipation will remain a big
             | problem, so I don't consider this swap worth the effort.
             | 
             | https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_moth
             | e...
             | 
             | https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware
             | 
             | There are more options if you want to get into soldering
             | CPUs
             | 
             | https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844
        
         | i_am_proteus wrote:
         | Perhaps an X2100 with an i7-10710u. [0] He's a one-man shop, so
         | the lead times can, generously, be substantial.
         | 
         | [0]https://www.xyte.ch/thinkpads/x210-x2100/
        
       | alexvoda wrote:
       | What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older
       | 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have
       | always seen a lot of praise for the older 7-row keyboards but it
       | is not clear to me what makes them superior and too much time has
       | passed since I used one to remember the feel. Is it the feel of
       | the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is
       | missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? They do indeed
       | have a very iconic look.
       | 
       | Personally I enjoy the clear and sharp separation of keys I can
       | feel on so called chicklet keys. I never liked the keys with lean
       | sloping edges. For the same reason I prefer XDA keycaps for
       | mechanical kkeyboards. And I think the 6-row arrangement alows
       | for a larger touchpad.
        
         | luke2m wrote:
         | All 4, but mostly the layout and shape. There is space on the
         | keyboard deck, yet all sorts of buttons are hidden under fn,
         | and for people who use pgup/dn / home/end, it is a big change.
         | Also, I think the thinklight is vastly superior to the backlit
         | keyboard for illuminating the whole area around it.
        
         | eliasmacpherson wrote:
         | > Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the
         | layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key
         | travel?
         | 
         | Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that
         | the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing'
         | for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is
         | now a chore to look and see where they have moved things.
         | 
         | The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is
         | no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by
         | the OS, such as the e550 and e330
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | alexvoda wrote:
           | I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo
           | tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think
           | there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen
           | on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a
           | wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order:
           | 
           | - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped,
           | rectangular with one curved edge, island style
           | 
           | - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4
           | 
           | - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find
           | verry annoying when this is not the case)
           | 
           | - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys
           | 
           | - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable
           | (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and
           | Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows
           | more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End
           | 
           | - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio,
           | followed by display and then others
           | 
           | - It's backlit
           | 
           | - LED indicators for Caps and Fn
           | 
           | A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3).
           | I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as
           | VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This
           | version however has one key to much to the left of the
           | spacebar.
           | 
           | (1) https://m.media-
           | amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_....
           | 
           | (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-
           | monitors/keyboa...
           | 
           | (3) https://m.media-
           | amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....
        
             | eliasmacpherson wrote:
             | Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The
             | aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me.
             | 
             | > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar)
             | 
             | Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like
             | this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to
             | know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory
             | now.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps
           | aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me
           | to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
        
             | eliasmacpherson wrote:
             | That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
        
         | sdfjkl wrote:
         | They just feel great to type on. It's probably a combination of
         | key travel, getting the scissor mechanism right, perfect force
         | needed and the feel of the depressing and popping back up of
         | the keys.
         | 
         | The current gen is oookay to type on after you get used to it,
         | but when I go back to my X220, the difference is that the X220
         | is a _joy_ to type on, rather than just okay. They also seem to
         | last pretty well, given how old that X220 is now.
         | 
         | The 7 rows were nice because you had a few extra "media" keys
         | without needing to Fn-combine (assuming you've set Fn to be off
         | by default so you can use the function keys for your software).
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | I'd say it's more about the "more buttons less fn" aspect,
         | because I don't think Thinkpad keyboards are particularly great
         | (though definitely some of the best stuff you can have in a
         | laptop). I don't use touchpads unless I have to so I don't care
         | about its size.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-05 23:01 UTC)