[HN Gopher] Fascine Mattresses: Basketry Gone Wild
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Fascine Mattresses: Basketry Gone Wild
Author : ggoo
Score : 111 points
Date : 2021-11-04 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (solar.lowtechmagazine.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (solar.lowtechmagazine.com)
| tromp wrote:
| > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers throughout
| the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine mattresses to the
| bottom.
|
| I have trouble squaring that with all of the Netherlands
| measuring only 41,543 km2, with rivers making up only a tiny
| fraction of that.
|
| Perhaps conversion from 1,200,000,000 m2 was off by a factor of
| 1000, and they mean 1,200 km2 ?
| lowtechmagazine wrote:
| Thanks for spotting the mistake. km2 should be m2.
|
| Source:
| https://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora/object/uuid:1ed44c19...
| page 17
| notorandit wrote:
| Dutch Genius at work.
| vcdimension wrote:
| Seems to me at first glance that this could make for a great
| carbon offsetting scheme
| atourgates wrote:
| This is fascinating. Worth noting that there appear to be still
| companies doing this today:
| https://www.vanaalsburgbv.nl/en/zinkstuk/
| nielsbot wrote:
| Meta: Interesting that a site called "low tech magazine" also
| appears to use "low tech" black/white dithered images... But I
| imagine it's a style choice.
| ashtonbaker wrote:
| I think they do it to reduce image size and therefore power
| consumption. Their server is solar powered.
| isolli wrote:
| Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29067118
| abeppu wrote:
| > Willow wood becomes rock-hard underwater and almost doesn't
| deteriorate. Research in the late 1960s showed that most fascine
| mattresses submerged for more than 100 years -- some dating from
| the early 1820s -- remained intact.
|
| > Unlike most other tree species, willow tolerates saltwater and
| (temporarily) wet feet. As such, the coppice plantations could
| use land that was not suitable for agriculture.
|
| > On impoverished soils, the Dutch planted alder trees between
| the willow trees. The falling leaves of the alder fertilised the
| soils and increased the lifespan and production of the willow
| trees.
|
| Building long-lasting critical infrastructure using locally-
| sourced, carbon-negative resources! I have no idea about dykes
| specifically but I suspect today someone pitching a public works
| project based on woven willow would be laughed at -- and instead
| we would insist on pouring some reinforced concrete, using
| carbon-intensive cement, and it would begin falling apart from
| rusted rebar in 15 years.
| Syonyk wrote:
| What if we build it out of graphene instead?
|
| There is an awful lot of knowledge that's been mostly discarded
| because it doesn't fit the "modern, industrial, profit-driven
| ways of thinking." Some of it is wrong, but an awful lot of it
| is simply "not easily to scale with machinery to maximum
| profits." Or, in some cases, just no longer considered stylish
| (stainless steel vs brass in hospitals being a case of "the new
| is literally worse than the old in every way that matters,
| while looking new" - the copper in brass is a biocide).
|
| It's probably worth picking up a printed copy or two of LTM...
| modern society is running out of runway awfully fast.
| abeppu wrote:
| > What if we build it out of graphene instead?
|
| I think the implication (that carbon negative local materials
| are unscalable) is unfair. We haven't built anything huge
| with graphene yet and the per-gram costs are still crazy
| (e.g. on the order of $100/g). By comparison, this article is
| about relatively large-scale projects that we actually did,
| decades ago.
|
| > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers
| throughout the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine
| mattresses to the bottom.
|
| We're in a context where we simultaneously want to:
|
| - build and replace infrastructure
|
| - decrease our carbon footprint and go negative where
| possible
|
| - protect large coastal areas from storm impacts
|
| - prevent further habitat loss and loss of ecological
| diversity
|
| And more recently we have become aware that sprawling
| international supply chains are a liability.
|
| I think more than just concerns over whether something scales
| at maximum profit, we also have too much institutional
| inertia. "If we pick different materials, will permitting and
| oversight bodies be convinced about safety and longevity
| claims? Will workers need to be retrained? Will the planning
| process need to change? Better to just do what we've always
| done; it's easier."
|
| To be fair, I suppose I _have_ heard people talk about carbon
| sequestration in cross-laminated timber for large buildings.
| I have not heard people talk about being able to source that
| timber locally, or in a way which is especially beneficial to
| the land.
|
| https://investingnews.com/daily/tech-
| investing/nanoscience-i...
| oasisbob wrote:
| > I suspect today someone pitching a public works project based
| on woven willow would be laughed at
|
| Live fascine bundles and live stakes from willow are commonly
| used riparian restoration techniques.
|
| Less elaborate and smaller, but the technique is still very
| much appreciated.
|
| https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/public...
| peter_retief wrote:
| Reminds me of the Roman cement that lasts for centuries as well.
| The Dutch are interesting as they also have a strong agricultural
| bent.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| I was just talking about that with someone. What makes it hold
| up? And are we talking about the material used to construct
| ancient structures like the Colosseum and aqueducts?
| klyrs wrote:
| Something about crystal formation in the volcanic ash that
| the cement is made from, reacting with the volcanic rock the
| aggregate is made from. I'm not going to do it justice by
| getting any more specific, so here's an article for layfolk,
| and the associated journal article.
|
| https://www.sciencealert.com/why-2-000-year-old-roman-
| concre...
|
| https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/msa/ammin/article/102/7/143.
| ..
| ExtraE wrote:
| The battery indicator is neat, but it's distracting when it's
| covering the whole page. Maybe couple ch of width in a sidebar
| would be easier.
| Arrath wrote:
| Thanks, I had wondered what the two-tone background was for and
| didn't notice the battery indicator off to the side.
| akamoonknight wrote:
| Enjoyable read overall. Always fascinating to see the human
| ingenuity involved in problem solving. I might have missed it in
| the article, but how do the fascine mattresses do the work of
| helping keep back the sea? By breaking up waves before they reach
| the shore?
| WJW wrote:
| They keep the soil of the dike in place, which would erode away
| without the "mattress".
| pacaro wrote:
| The article is light on the actual function of the mattresses,
| but my reading is that they served to prevent erosion, and
| would prevent dykes and other structures from being undercut
| singlow wrote:
| So that underwater basket weaving course was not a fluff course
| after all?
| Guest42 wrote:
| I remember that the top person in the math department in
| college had transferred from dance because it was too
| difficult.
|
| They always present underwater basket weaving as being easy but
| I imagine it'd be quite challenging.
| qq4 wrote:
| The idea is that underwater basket weaving has no utility in
| the real world, not that it is easy.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I had to drop the class because I couldn't hold my breath
| long enough to do much weaving.
| Syonyk wrote:
| Of course it was! This is onshore basket weaving that's then
| floated into position and sunk. Different department.
| progre wrote:
| For those who, like me, didn't get the joke:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving
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(page generated 2021-11-04 23:00 UTC)