[HN Gopher] Israeli spyware company NSO Group placed on US black...
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       Israeli spyware company NSO Group placed on US blacklist
        
       Author : sequence7
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2021-11-03 14:46 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | bberenberg wrote:
       | Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29095265
        
       | bink wrote:
       | There are several US companies that provide the same service,
       | though they ostensibly operate under guidelines set by the US
       | government.
       | 
       | As someone who was busted for hacking way back in the day, it
       | perturbs me just a little bit that I could legally develop an
       | exploit and sell it to someone who I know will use it for illegal
       | activity (but activity that the US govt. might approve of,
       | regardless of legality), but if I myself use this exploit I'll be
       | facing serious jail time. Or if I sell it to someone who isn't on
       | an unofficial "approved" list of users.
        
         | suifbwish wrote:
         | If people who exploit this sort of thing for financial gain
         | would spend a fraction of their problem solving on developing a
         | constructive solution that solves a real world problem they
         | would probably have more money
        
       | sonjaqql wrote:
       | See episodes 99 and 100 on the Darknet Diaries [1] for background
       | on NSO and Pegasus.
       | 
       | [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/
        
         | jayrot wrote:
         | Great podcast.
        
       | sofixa wrote:
       | Serves them right. I wonder how Israel would react here, and how
       | the US squares blacklisting the company, but saying nothing of
       | the Israeli MoD that had to authorise every sale due to export
       | restrictions. If the company sold to bad actors, surely the MoD
       | is at least partly to blame for allowing it?
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | Not the MoD, but the cabinet, and the previous PM specifically
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | I highly doubt that some of the more shady deals like selling
         | to the KSA weren't greenlit if not brokered by the US.
         | 
         | About 10 years ago Israel sold Hermes drones to KSA through
         | South Africa, that deal was pretty much openly brokered by the
         | US because KSA wanted drones with attack capability and the US
         | didn't want to supply them with predator drones and the UK
         | which is primary arms supplier to KSA didn't had anything to
         | export either.
         | 
         | Israel or not if these companies posed any actual threat to US
         | interests yet alone national security they wouldn't exist
         | either through political pressure or by much stronger actions
         | than putting them on a sanctioned list.
         | 
         | What will likely happen is that they'll reform as other
         | entities with sufficient separation from to avoid sanction or
         | Israel would shift that capacity to some of the larger defense
         | contractors like Elbit which the US will not sanction.
         | 
         | As long as there is a market for these services and there is
         | sufficient political will in the west and the US specifically
         | to supply "allies" with controlled offensive cyber capability
         | there will be countries like Israel that would fulfill this
         | demand.
         | 
         | The main challenge of establishing a company like NSO isn't the
         | human capital you can find people with the right skills pretty
         | much anywhere it's the connections and the government backing
         | needed to make these deals.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Call me when the US federal government and its bombing and drone
       | assassination program runners are placed on the blacklist.
        
         | viro wrote:
         | For what exactly? Your issues with that program probably has
         | more to do with Taliban war crimes. Don't forget it's a war
         | crime to not wear a uniform during combat.
        
           | throwaway946513 wrote:
           | I'd reckon that the 'war crime' of a lack of a uniform is
           | lower on the scale than a drone strike on a civilian aide to
           | the U.S. during the withdrawal from said State.
        
             | viro wrote:
             | Nope that drone strike only happened because of the lack of
             | uniform and clear insignia. If they didn't use that tactic
             | the strike would never have happened.
        
               | throwaway946513 wrote:
               | "happened because of the lack of uniform"
               | 
               | Following interviews of the man's employer, and the
               | official word from the DoD "we tracked the vehicle from a
               | known ISIS safehouse."
               | 
               | The vehicle was a Toyota Corolla whose driver took his
               | coworkers home, and one coworker's home was "a known ISIS
               | safehouse" even though he had long been working for the
               | U.S. effort, in full support of the U.S. effort.
               | 
               | Let alone, ISIS isn't quite a government entity, but
               | rather a terrorist group so not explicitly going to
               | follow international treaties. Their premise is to blend
               | in - the U.S. shouldn't be allowing the collateral damage
               | to happen on our watch, rather do it's best to stop
               | damaging and hurting civilians.
        
               | eliasmacpherson wrote:
               | They investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing.
               | 
               | https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/03/watchdog-finds-
               | no-m...
               | 
               | "Said was asked to investigate the Aug. 29 drone strike
               | on a white Toyota Corolla sedan, which killed Zemerai
               | Ahmadi and nine family members, including seven children.
               | Ahmadi, 37, was a longtime employee of an American
               | humanitarian organization."
               | 
               | What uniform would have avoided the tragedy?
               | 
               | You are blaming ISIS' lack of uniforms for the drone
               | strike on this man and his nine family members?
        
           | GhettoComputers wrote:
           | It just goes down to the function of such a rule. Who made
           | that rule? It's just power dynamics. It's simply oppressive
           | to force weak militaries to lose. Weak countries that will
           | lose in head to head combat. In paraphrasing but there's two
           | ways to fight the U.S. the stupid way or guerrilla warfare.
           | Let's not forget how the revolutionary war against Britain
           | was won because they didn't follow formalities.
        
             | michaelcampbell wrote:
             | "Aged like milk" Bill Cosby aside, he had a great bit if
             | more things were decided by coin toss.
             | 
             | The Americans win the coin toss; they can wear whatever
             | they want and hide behind trees and rocks. The British will
             | be forced to wear bright red and march in straight lines.
        
             | Ancapistani wrote:
             | The US won the Revolutionary War because ultimately France
             | joined in against the British. The French provided
             | substantial support and training for the Continental Army,
             | and the French navy held the British fleet at bay.
             | 
             | The land battles that were won by the Continental Army were
             | won using the standard tactics of the day.
        
               | GhettoComputers wrote:
               | There's lots of reasons, they had the forage war and used
               | guerilla tactics, ambushes and non conventional warfare
               | since they'd lose a head to head war.
        
           | erdos4d wrote:
           | > Don't forget it's a war crime to not wear a uniform during
           | combat
           | 
           | lol those dudes are getting shot at with gunships and tanks
           | and have AKs and old mines and stuff to fight back with. They
           | should invest in uniforms to make it "fair"?
        
             | viro wrote:
             | It's not about making it fair. When soldiers dress as
             | civilians in civilian areas during combat. It's nearly
             | impossible to make sure a real civilian doesn't get harmed.
        
               | bestcoder69 wrote:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy48P-SBgUU
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Unfortunately the US is well-known for actually actively
               | engaging civilians.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
               | 
               | Whether or not that is an isolated incident is
               | irrelevant. The US has a reputation for shooting
               | civilians. The US media doesn't help either, often
               | portraying soldiers shooting civilians even in fiction.
        
         | vernie wrote:
         | Nobody will call you.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-03 23:02 UTC)