[HN Gopher] Justice sues to block Penguin Random House's acquisi...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Justice sues to block Penguin Random House's acquisition of Simon
       and Schuster
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2021-11-02 19:05 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.justice.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.justice.gov)
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | I'm still a bit lost as to why this and the music industry
       | haven't been more disrupted by technology. You don't need a
       | record label you don't need a book publisher, you can, if people
       | want to consume your content just write your book and have people
       | just send you money via patreon or one time donations.
       | 
       | I've made music with friends for a long time, and the industry
       | makes it very hard for any independent artist to get ahead. You
       | have some of the worst deals ever imaginable given to these kids,
       | who are often only 18 or 19 and the label just takes everything.
       | 
       | Why do we need any of that, I go out of my way to buy music
       | exclusively from independent artist, while I might stream some
       | popular hit. When it comes to actually buying merchandise, or
       | music I only give it to the Indies.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | It's in part because advertising still drives visibility which
         | drives sales, and all the main discovery mediums are
         | centralized and sell ad placements to the highest bidder.
         | Combine that with the typical algorithmic promotion algorithm,
         | where Amazon etc want to show you things they think you're
         | likely to buy, so they mostly sell you things that are already
         | top sellers.
        
         | rackjack wrote:
         | There are too many books and too many songs. The problem is no
         | longer accessing them, it is finding them in the first place.
         | Generally they need marketing to be discovered. This is where
         | big name publishers come in.
         | 
         | If you find a way to disrupt the recommendation industry you
         | will be ahead of even Google.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | I was thinking about this conundrum a bit during my MFA when I
         | met Wesley Stace and he mentioned something about there being a
         | stigma against self-publishing literature that doesn't exist
         | for self-releasing music. I think part of it is barrier to
         | entry. Any schmuck with access to a computer with a word
         | processor could write something that looks like a book and put
         | it on Smashwords, etc. and claim to have published something.
         | 
         | For music, it gets a lot harder: There's a higher cost to being
         | able to get an MP3 available on the music services, not just on
         | the part of the middle men who will gladly take your money to
         | put things up (it's been a while since I've been in the music
         | game so I don't know how big a role these folks play nowadays),
         | but also just for the act of recording which requires the non-
         | trivial purchase or rental of recording equipment, not to
         | mention the training to be able to produce something that's not
         | embarrassing (although the latter has not stopped more than a
         | few people from releasing stuff like that anyway). Most people
         | think they could write a book ("if they only had the time") but
         | few people think they could record a song.
         | 
         | But regardless, there's still the challenge of getting music
         | heard, and I suspect that from minimum 500-CD orders of indie
         | albums from the CD era, the majority are sitting in boxes in
         | people's basements, garages and attics.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | > You don't need a record label you don't need a book
         | publisher, you can, if people want to consume your content just
         | write your book and have people just send you money via patreon
         | or one time donations.
         | 
         | Yes you do need the biggest possible label. All the big artists
         | today (post 2000), they might have started building their
         | audience on the internet organically , but at some point one
         | absolutely needs a label that has all the connections, budget
         | for advertising, touring, featuring, ...to grow as an artist,
         | nothing has changed on that regard. What collapsed is the
         | record industry, which virtually doesn't exist anymore, save
         | from vinyl records maybe.
         | 
         | The people that are useless on the other hand are the middlemen
         | like Spotify and co, they serve absolutely no purpose
         | whatsoever. Better distribute your music freely on Youtube
         | instead and grow your audience there, or do live shows on
         | Twitch.
         | 
         | This is a technologist forum, but people here needs to remember
         | that just because you have a product to sell doesn't mean it
         | will sell, no matter how good that product is, you often need
         | to hire people dedicated to selling that product to clients.
         | Music is no different.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | Tech N9ne doesn't have a label. Most of the music I listen to
           | is independently released.
           | 
           | I actually enjoy supporting artist directly vs having a label
           | steal half of what they make.
        
             | throw_m239339 wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_N9ne
             | 
             | According to wikipedia, Tech N9ne has been on many labels
             | before, including majors such as Warner Bros. What is your
             | exemple supposed to demonstrate? At some point, during his
             | career, this artist benefited from being on a major label.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | He got dropped though. Meaning that you really don't need
               | a label to succeed.
               | 
               | Many artists do better after going indee.
        
               | throw_m239339 wrote:
               | > He got dropped though. Meaning that you really don't
               | need a label to succeed.
               | 
               | And? It doesn't change the fact that he did get exposure
               | thanks to a major label at some point. You have proven
               | nothing, on the contrary. You have demonstrated my entire
               | point. Nobody makes featuring with Eminem or Lil Wayne
               | without being backed by a label. Featurings are never
               | free.
        
         | JeremyReimer wrote:
         | The publishing industry _was_ disrupted by technology in 2007
         | when Amazon released the Kindle. It took a few years, but for a
         | while, independent book authors were rivalling the  "Big Five"
         | publishers in terms of both sales volume and books sold.
         | 
         | Part of this was driven by the big publishers' response to
         | indies: they raised the price of their own eBooks to protect
         | their hardcover market. They even illegally colluded with each
         | other, along with Apple, to force these higher prices across
         | the industry.
         | 
         | But they were sued and lost, and the result was a lowering of
         | big publisher eBook prices across the board. On the independent
         | side, the problem was that too many people were publishing too
         | many books. It was impossible to keep up, and there was no good
         | system for finding the "best" independent authors, since tastes
         | are so subjective and the vast majority of independent authors
         | didn't have any money to spend on marketing anyway.
         | 
         | So that leads us to today, where the "Big Four" (trying to
         | become the Big Three) still have access to their promotional
         | machinery, which includes retail bookstores. There are a very
         | few insanely successful independent authors, and a veeeeeery
         | long tail of folks that have no way of getting noticed in the
         | crowd.
         | 
         | Still, the sales volume of traditional publishing and
         | independent publishing remains about equivalent even today
         | (it's hard to get exact numbers because Amazon doesn't like
         | giving them out, but apps like KindleSpy offer a broad
         | estimate) It's just that the latter is spread out among many
         | more authors.
        
         | Larrikin wrote:
         | All of my friends that are truly veracious readers prefer
         | physical books. I've wasted a good bit of money gifting
         | kindles.
         | 
         | Vinyl has some hold outs, but after music went digital on CDs
         | the next step to digital distribution was inevitable since
         | ultimately music listening is an interaction that is for your
         | ears.
         | 
         | Many readers prefer turning pages on top of the visual
         | experience for some reason, which I'm sure has been an
         | impediment for bypassing publishers
        
           | joe-collins wrote:
           | Vinyl doesn't merely have holdouts, but it's actually
           | outselling CDs, now. (Granted, all physical media remains a
           | tiny fraction of the recorded music market.)
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/14/vinyl-
           | records-...
           | 
           | I figure this is mostly the trendy bandwagon at work, but
           | from those I know who partake in such, having a highly
           | visible piece of cover art is another motivating factor
           | behind its resurgence.
        
       | antonzabirko wrote:
       | Instead of going after google, microsoft, or even citadel they go
       | after publishing companies. It would be funny if it wasn't so
       | sad.
        
       | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
       | This is a cynical take and I'm no expert but perhaps the
       | publishing industry can't afford the legal fortress needed for
       | effective protection from anti-trust enforcement?
       | 
       | I mean there seem to be plenty of enormous mergers and
       | acquisitions that aren't and haven't been blocked over the past
       | several decades.
        
         | fblp wrote:
         | Yes, I was thinking "when was the last time Amazon had an
         | acquisition blocked? "
        
           | ticviking wrote:
           | What could Amazon acquire to double its market share in any
           | particular market?
        
       | keneda7 wrote:
       | I am all for this. IMO publishers especially textbook publishers
       | are running a racket on us. Giving one company even more control
       | over the market is definitely not going to help the situation.
       | 
       | They mention with the acquisition Penguin would "control of close
       | to half the market for acquiring publishing rights to anticipated
       | top-selling books". They also mention how the market is dominated
       | by 5 major players already. Is this domination due to the major 5
       | players being able to pay substantially more to acquire
       | publishing rights than the little guys or is something else at
       | play?
        
         | poidos wrote:
         | [I have a close family member that works in publishing]
         | 
         | As far as I can tell, part of it is that the bigger publishing
         | houses are able to get lucky more often; they're more likely to
         | get a bestseller than a smaller publishing house. This is
         | apparently due to a combination of
         | 
         | 1. Being able to pay more authors as a raw number (they're
         | numerically more likely to get a "hit"), which is partly
         | because of
         | 
         | 2. Inertia from already having big authors, so people look to
         | sign with them before considering the smaller publishers.
         | 
         | Note that this is really only for mass-market stuff; specialty
         | genres are different.
         | 
         | The big publishers are also able to cut better deals with
         | distribution centers and booksellers.
        
           | keneda7 wrote:
           | Thank you very much for your reply. Its always good to hear
           | from inside the industry. The two points make complete sense.
           | I can definitely see an author wanting to stick with a
           | publisher that has made them money in the past.
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | Apart from the anti-trust angles as to why such a merger is bad,
       | I am also concerned about the increasing political biases among
       | employees in the publishing world. For example, employees at
       | Penguin Random House protested the publishing of Jordan
       | Peterson's new book (https://reason.com/2020/11/25/jordan-
       | peterson-12-rules-for-l...). Simon and Schuster employees
       | protested the publishing of Mike Pence's memoir
       | (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/549311-simon-schuster-
       | rej...). There are numerous other examples that can be found via
       | search, and the spike in political protests at publishers
       | coincides with the rise of protests and calls for deplatforming
       | elsewhere.
       | 
       | Something similar has been happening with booksellers as well.
       | Industry groups like the American Booksellers Association have
       | been bowing down to progressive activists' pressure
       | (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-entertainment-
       | business-...). Leftist activists have pressured physical
       | bookstores to remove books from their shelves
       | (https://reason.com/2021/01/11/powells-books-antifa-andy-
       | ngo-...). Even new online independent bookstore Bookshop.org has
       | joined the culture wars, asking customers to donate to send
       | copies of "The 1619 Project" to schools
       | (https://bookshop.org/1619).
       | 
       | Books are a really fundamental tool in our society for the
       | exchange of information and ideas. The introduction of political
       | and ideological wars into the world of book publishing and sales
       | is scary, and out of touch with classically liberal enlightenment
       | values. However, seeing as how many institutions have been taken
       | over or caved to such pressures, I feel like choice and
       | competition are the one thing protecting free expression on this
       | medium. As such, I would not like to see the type of
       | consolidation these publishers are pushing for.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-11-02 23:01 UTC)