[HN Gopher] Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation
        
       Author : mrzool
       Score  : 129 points
       Date   : 2021-11-02 18:05 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (youglish.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (youglish.com)
        
       | m00dy wrote:
       | great service !!!
        
       | cardanome wrote:
       | The categorization of dialects is a bit disappointing.
       | 
       | What the hell is an "Uk" accent? So a posh southern English
       | accent would be the same category as a northern one? I get that
       | considering nearly every city has its own dialect of English it
       | would hard to offer some sensible mapping but it still feels kind
       | of wrong.
       | 
       | If I search for the word "climate" in "Uk", "Irish" or "New
       | Zealand" I get the same British English video, otherwise a
       | Scottish English video for US. Don't offer me that many choices
       | if you are going to lump them all together anyway.
       | 
       | Honestly they should have just offered a switch between American
       | English and "British English" (the Received Pronunciation that
       | many learn at school).
       | 
       | Other than that, seems like a great idea and already working
       | reasonably well.
        
         | leoc wrote:
         | There's obviously some limit to how finely you could expect
         | them to separate accents, but putting rhotic Scottish and
         | Ulster accents in the same category with mostly-non-rhotic
         | English accents is just crassly wrong. It's about as bad as
         | putting Australia and the USA in the same category.
        
         | GoodbyeMrChips wrote:
         | Heh.... UK = England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland.
         | 
         | None of these accents sound _remotely_ alike. Back to the
         | drawing board with this methinks.
         | 
         | > So a posh southern English accent would be the same category
         | as a northern one?
         | 
         | I'm more amused that you think southern England is the posh
         | part :-) Though on a more serious note, we use shorter vowel
         | sounds in the north (in the north we say 'bath', southerners
         | say 'baarth') which can make us harder to understand to those
         | whom English isn't a first language.
        
           | softfalcon wrote:
           | Yeah, you just described the kind of "roping in" of multiple
           | dialects that make me worry that trying to define
           | pronunciation in English is impossible.
           | 
           | I have friends who are Welsh, I have friends who are
           | Australian, my background is Scottish, Irish, and Estuary
           | English.
           | 
           | You learn very quickly that everyone has completely different
           | ways of saying things and that you have to accept it. I can't
           | imagine trying to define all of them, it's utter chaos.
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | Outside of mass media there isn't very strong
             | standardization of pronunciation. Linguistics is a
             | spectrum, and occasionally society decides to totally
             | upturn how they want to pronounce things, like in the Great
             | Vowel Shift:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | > I'm more amused that you think southern England is the posh
           | part :-)
           | 
           | Isn't that the stereotype? I thought London area is
           | considered pretty posh. At least that is what I am getting
           | from most popular culture. Of course both dimensions, class
           | and location are partly independent but there is some
           | overlap.
           | 
           | For example, this classic:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-BVgPeZR-Y (Posh family
           | reacts to northern nanny | The Catherine Tate Show)
           | 
           | > Though on a more serious note, we use shorter vowel sounds
           | in the north (in the north we say 'bath', southerners say
           | 'baarth') which can make us harder to understand to those
           | whom English isn't a first language.
           | 
           | Yeah, as a non native speaker I need to concentrate way more
           | because it feels faster. I love the accents though, really
           | fun to listen to.
        
             | roywiggins wrote:
             | Cockney and MLE (a modern multicultural London
             | accent/dialect/whatever it's officially called) are non-
             | posh southern England accents. See the "in popular culture"
             | for examples of MLE (Eggsy from Kingsman for example).
             | Working-class London accents, not posh.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English
        
             | hencq wrote:
             | > Isn't that the stereotype? I thought London area is
             | considered pretty posh.
             | 
             | I think what you're getting at is Estuary English, which is
             | spoken around the estuary of the river Thames. It's pretty
             | close to Received Pronunciation which is sort of the
             | 'standard' English as it used to be spoken on the BBC. And
             | probably what most Americans would classify as a posh
             | English accent or even as just 'British English'. London
             | also has Cockney though, which I don't think anyone would
             | say is posh.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | I understood that to mean there were two dimensions: location
           | and class.
           | 
           | More often than I am comfortable with, I am told I'm very
           | easy to understand. I recommend using a middle class Midlands
           | / South Midlands accent when abroad.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | The West Country accent is something special!
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahznvtDunEw
        
         | RobertRoberts wrote:
         | From a humorous perspective, how should US pronounce "wash"
         | from a Wisconsin accent (sounds like "warsh"). Or how to
         | pronounce "car" or "bar" from a Boston accent. (sounds like
         | "cah" and "bah") Southern's in the US say "ant/aint" instead of
         | "aunt". And what about "y'all"? etc, etc...
         | 
         | Maybe there is similarities with the varied UK accents?
        
           | Hemospectrum wrote:
           | In fact, English dialects in the British isles have _huge_
           | variety compared to those in North America, by at least an
           | order of magnitude. It sounds counterintuitive at first
           | because the differences in land mass and population size are
           | the other way around, but the actual biggest factor here is
           | the amount of time that these regions have had English-
           | speaking communities. Give it a few more centuries and the
           | rate of local dialect differentiation will start to catch up.
        
       | softfalcon wrote:
       | I feel bad for anyone who tries to get English pronunciation
       | "correct".
       | 
       | I'm Canadian. My family is of Scottish, Irish, and English
       | descent. I am painfully aware of how many dialects, exceptions to
       | words, weird pronunciations, and accents affect what should be
       | the same word.
       | 
       | My wife is Russian and is fluent in English from having lived
       | here in Canada since she was a child.
       | 
       | We regularly get into arguments about how something is
       | pronounced. Most of the time, we find that it's commonly said one
       | way here in this part of Canada, but has 1 different
       | pronunciation in a different part of Canada and 3 more
       | pronunciations back in the UK or Australia.
       | 
       | Since Canada is very multi-cultural and there are real Scottish,
       | Irish, Indian, Australian, etc speakers everywhere here, who can
       | say what is the right way to say a word in English?
       | 
       | Can we really say that the word is supposed to be X when I have 5
       | people in the room, all with legitimate other ways to say it that
       | are true for their version of English? Who is right? Does it
       | matter who is right? How much should we care about correct
       | pronunciation at all? It's not even a pedantic discussion anymore
       | for me, it's a legitimate and real confusion day-to-day.
       | 
       | As an example, I went to the above linked "youglish" site and it
       | gave a suggestion for "courage". Some semi-British, possibly
       | Eastern US sounding person said "coo-rah-dg" but here in my part
       | of Canada, I would say it as "cur-ah-dg". They sound rather
       | different and in passing, you might even think I'm saying a
       | different word than "courage". Both are right, but here is a
       | website that will cause someone to tell me my pronunciation is
       | wrong.
       | 
       | I feel like English is too broken and disparate in its many
       | acceptable spoken variations to have a site like this ever work
       | without stoking further arguments.
        
         | filereaper wrote:
         | Yup, I feel this.
         | 
         | Take for example "Regina", I've always pronouced it re-gih-na,
         | how Regina Saskatchewan was pronounced on CBC and elsewhere.
         | 
         | But here was a lady with same name of Regina who pronounced it
         | re-gi-nah which I guess is more common south of the border?
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | This is a real problem. If we don't come up with one single
         | correct way to pronounce every single word, English will fork
         | into multiple different languages.
         | 
         | This has happened - English at the core is based on German (an
         | old German not spoken anymore - and one we probably can't
         | reconstruct), but the French and other influences over the
         | years mean few can find anything in common with German (which
         | has gone a different way). I could also point out
         | Spanish/Italian, or Swedish/Danish. I have no doubt that you
         | can find the same in Africa and Asia, but I don't know enough
         | about their languages to comment.
         | 
         | While we are at it, can we reform English spelling to make
         | sense?
        
           | hencq wrote:
           | > English at the core is based on German (an old German not
           | spoken anymore - and one we probably can't reconstruct)
           | 
           | This is just plain wrong, or at the very least very
           | misleading. It's true that English is at its core a Germanic
           | language. As is German, but it's fairer to say that both
           | languages share a common ancestor. And in fact, we can and
           | have reconstructed these older ancestor languages. In fact,
           | most European languages descend from Proto-Indo-European,
           | which has also been reconstructed to quite some detail.
           | 
           | I can heartily recommend this podcast[1] by the way, which
           | goes into a lot more detail about this as well as the history
           | of how these things got discovered.
           | 
           | [1] - https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/episodes/
        
           | retrac wrote:
           | > This is a real problem. If we don't come up with one single
           | correct way to pronounce every single word, English will fork
           | into multiple different languages.
           | 
           | It is probably unpreventable. Language change occurs
           | precisely because of insufficient contact/exposure, causing
           | divergence, or allowing it to persist. Dialects with lots of
           | bidirectional exchange tend to shift towards each other.
           | 
           | Besides, that ship sailed. English dialects have arisen on
           | multiple continents and are diverging. I speak fairly
           | standard Canadian English and there some dialects I need a
           | fair bit of time to acclimate to when I encounter them.
           | Unless electronic media and social change pulls some wildcard
           | on language acquisition (who knows?) it's quite possible that
           | in a few hundred more years the gap between spoken English on
           | the street in New York and London may be as wide as German
           | and Dutch today.
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Ah yeah, as someone who has grown up on Canada's west coast,
         | sometimes I see a video of someone in a certain region of
         | England (for example) and I can barely understand them. It's
         | supposedly the same language, but wowzers, the variation in
         | accent is very broad around the world! I was watching a show
         | where a woman was named "Emma" and I literally 100% thought her
         | name was "Emer" because of the way they were pronouncing her
         | name. I was like "huh, that's an interesting name"! haha
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Emer, or Eimhear, is a an Irish name. It rhymes with lemur,
           | or emer[gency].
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emer
        
             | amatecha wrote:
             | haha, yeah, no her name was in fact Emma though (it showed
             | her name in text later on). It's not the first time I
             | totally misunderstood a word due to pronunciation! haha
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I feel bad for anyone who tries to get English pronunciation
         | "correct".
         | 
         | Well that's the wrong way to look at it. There's not one
         | objectively correct pronunciation but there are a great many
         | objectively totally incorrect ones.
         | 
         | I've got an horrible french accent when I speak english and
         | it's just obviously and non-disputably wrong and bogus.
         | 
         | My daughter, on the other hand, has been raised watching
         | english-only cartoons and going since years to british colleges
         | and she definitely has an accent that many would think is
         | native.
         | 
         | The goal shouldn't be to get the "correct" pronunciation: the
         | goal should be to not get an incorrect one.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | softfalcon wrote:
           | Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way, but at least my way
           | of looking at it prevents me from judging how others speak.
           | 
           | While I admire your want to not have the "incorrect"
           | pronunciation. I don't think it's necessary or even really
           | all that important.
           | 
           | Don't let great be the enemy of good and all that.
           | 
           | I call this a win as it makes me more accepting of others
           | instead of trying to be "right" like so many native English
           | speakers try to be (which is incredibly obnoxious and
           | elitist).
        
         | jjeaff wrote:
         | Few native English speakers have any problem with various
         | different ways that some words can be pronounced. The kind of
         | pronunciation projects like this are talking about is
         | pronouncing it correctly enough that it can be understood.
        
       | skibz wrote:
       | I've always been curious about the North American and UK
       | pronunciations of the word "solder". Why are they subtly
       | different?
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | Whatever the reason, it probably explains "caulk" too (US
         | "cawk", UK "cawlk")
         | 
         | [EDIT: "cawk" is a better rendition of AmE. ]
        
           | bovermyer wrote:
           | As an American English speaker, I have never heard "caulk"
           | pronounced "cork." It's always been "cawk" for me.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | I edited it reflect your better rendition.
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | That's nothing. I have a little WTF moment _every_ time I hear
         | an American pronounce the word "buoy". :P
         | 
         | I'm sure that's reciprocated on more that a few cases too. :D
        
       | jonatron wrote:
       | This is a better idea than searching for word+" pronunciation" ,
       | because of videos like this:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hx052Tiz9E
        
       | enz wrote:
       | This is a nice project.
        
       | eesmith wrote:
       | We use it to settle pronunciation arguments.
       | 
       | Sometimes we find that we're both right when the word has
       | multiple pronunciations. Those are the best.
        
       | nahuel0x wrote:
       | Besides pronunciation, this is great for searching videos by
       | audio content. I'm surprised this is not an standard youtube
       | feature.
        
         | jobigoud wrote:
         | This is curated for good close captions. Youtube has an option
         | for auto transcription that sometimes gives crap results and
         | couldn't be used for a tool like this.
        
       | air7 wrote:
       | Does anyone know how the site searchea YouTube for videos with
       | certain words? Or is it crawled?
        
         | jobigoud wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure it's a hand picked list of channels that are
         | known to have good closed captions and then the index is built
         | on the this.
        
         | NotEvil wrote:
         | Somehow crawling captions? Maybe
        
       | ik8s wrote:
       | I feel like this would be even more helpful to me if it would
       | only show me videos of people's faces while they are pronouncing
       | the word, so I can see their mouth positions.
        
         | jobigoud wrote:
         | It would be very artificial. I love youglish because the words
         | are in context, in the flow of speech, including liaisons with
         | preceding and following words, and for more advanced uses it
         | can be used not only for pronunciation but to see how a word is
         | actually used in discourse.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | Outstanding!
       | 
       | But why post this as for English. It supports so many other
       | languages.
       | 
       | I'm studying Chinese and this will help.
        
       | herpderperator wrote:
       | > Your daily search quota has exceeded.
       | 
       | > Please come back tomorrow or upgrade to one of YouGlish's
       | Premium account plans.
       | 
       | Well, that was a fun 10 minutes while it lasted... One can
       | definitely have endless fun with this. It's almost like clicking
       | "Random" on Wikipedia except you have to think of a word/phrase
       | first. Or use Wikipedia's "Random" and input that word into
       | YouGlish :D
        
       | mattbee wrote:
       | It's missing Yorkshire! I live in a farming village, you do
       | occasionally hear voices like this one -
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVis
        
         | Causality1 wrote:
         | I found it fascinating he appears to be a farmer yet he's
         | wearing a vest and tie. Is he dressed up for the interview or
         | is that normal? I can't imagine the nightmare of sweaty chafing
         | I would be if I tried to do a physical job dressed like that.
        
       | ourcat wrote:
       | Nice. But I searched for 'Aluminium'. It gave me results for
       | 'Aluminum' (American English).
        
         | mseepgood wrote:
         | You can choose the accent below the search field.
        
       | dyukqu wrote:
       | Still no consensus on how to pronounce "gif".
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | RobertRoberts wrote:
         | Yes there is, it's now unanimously pronounced "gif".
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | Which is... how?
        
             | bovermyer wrote:
             | That's the joke. Go back and read it again.
        
               | Koshkin wrote:
               | Ah... I will go and downvote it, then.
        
       | sdo72 wrote:
       | I like this site, it helps me a lot with pronunciation especially
       | someone like me that doesn't go on the TV or watch many videos.
       | 
       | Since the day knowing this site, I found out that I had
       | pronounced many words incorrectly in the past.
       | 
       | A few things people have pointed out, we have to go through
       | sorting out the accents, multiple pronunciations for the same
       | word, etc... But this is very good for the basic pronunciation
       | search.
        
       | chagaif wrote:
       | I've been using this for more than a year now, it's amazing!
        
       | abd-nh wrote:
       | I came across YouGlish a while ago and found it really useful for
       | finding interesting content in different languages.
       | 
       | Shameless plug: I wrote an add-on to use YouGlish with Anki.
       | https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/38866997
        
       | BelenusMordred wrote:
       | This is really cool. As a native speaker it's not really relevant
       | for me but impressed nonetheless. Excellent site, I wish there
       | was something equivalent for Mandarin or German.
       | 
       | Tried this one off the bat -
       | https://youglish.com/pronounce/elucidation/english?
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | You can switch the language in the "YouGlish for English"
         | header (or by modifying the URL).
        
       | soneca wrote:
       | At the moment I see a few comments criticizing the mixed results
       | in accents and pronunciations. I am a Brazilian who speaks
       | English at work, so I just wanted to share my use case for
       | Youglish.
       | 
       | I go to Youglish whenever I have _no idea_ on how to pronounce a
       | word. I read English much more than I listen to English (HN
       | contributes to that), so it is not uncommon to find such words. I
       | don't need (nor want) to find the right accent to emulate or
       | reach the perfect pronunciation to pass for a native speaker. I
       | just want to be able to pronounce in a way that my coworkers will
       | understand which word I am using.
       | 
       | My coworkers are kind and reasonable, so they don't expect
       | perfect pronunciation from me either, they just want to
       | understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.
       | 
       | So, for me, it is not relevant at all that the accents might be
       | mixed. As long as I learn _a_ way to pronounce it, no matter
       | _which_ way. Youglish is a great resource for me.
       | 
       | (another is Grammarly, I stil don't know why they don't direct
       | they marketing to non-native English speakers more, as it is
       | perfect for us)
        
         | lottin wrote:
         | I use a pronunciation dictionary for that.
        
         | FalconSensei wrote:
         | Brazilian here: what really helped me was learning to use the
         | pronunciation part of the dictionary + listen on google.
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | Second that. Especially Grammarly does an amazing job. Also the
         | possibility to use different styles.
         | 
         | Another tip from me: Deepl.com
         | 
         | Way better than Babelfish. Best translator tool there is in my
         | point of view.
        
           | mrzool wrote:
           | Deepl is amazing. I use it several times a day for
           | translating fairly complex sentences, idioms and figures of
           | speech, usually from English (my second language) to German
           | (my third language and the one I currently work with). Every
           | time I'm amazed by how well it works. It really makes my life
           | a lot easier.
           | 
           | Another language tool I love and use daily is
           | https://www.powerthesaurus.org
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | 28uwedj wrote:
         | Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.
         | https://youtu.be/0Rl9Cxc7uZA?t=24
        
         | lamontcg wrote:
         | I'm certain that I've looked up Brazilian footballers names on
         | youtube to see how to pronounce them correctly
         | (English/American announcers don't always get them right).
        
       | bobthechef wrote:
       | Check out these bad pronunciations:
       | 
       | - succinct
       | 
       | - mischievous
       | 
       | - coup de grace
       | 
       | - comptroller
        
         | flerovium wrote:
         | What's wrong with the pronunciation of "succinct"? Most are
         | suh-sinked. I'm a native speaker. That's how you say it.
        
       | MomoXenosaga wrote:
       | Lol fuck English pronunciation. We don't have to sound like
       | Californian Valley douchebags anymore.
       | 
       | English is an international language. It no longer belongs to the
       | oppressor. Don't sell out your culture. German accented
       | English=sex.
        
         | fernandotakai wrote:
         | agreed. i try to make my accent as neutral as possible, but at
         | the same time, as long as people can understand me... why
         | bother?
         | 
         | if someone speaks my native language with an accent, i wouldn't
         | give a single fuck, but for some reason, every english speak
         | must have a Californian accent.
        
       | buserror wrote:
       | I love that "coup de grace" is listed in the examples, as it's
       | actually... French!
       | 
       | Reminds me of the famous (fictional?) quote of Bush president
       | saying "There is no french word for entrepreneur !" :-)
        
         | enz wrote:
         | As a French native speaker, listening to "coup de grace" as
         | pronounced in English seems a bit weird ahah
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | As a Dutch speaker, germanic not romanic language, the
           | pronunciation of coup de grace sounds weird to me as well.
           | What's even weirder is an English speaker trying to repeat my
           | name after me!
        
         | ksenzee wrote:
         | English is my first language, I also speak French, and I often
         | avoid saying French phrases out loud in English, for fear of
         | pronouncing them "wrong" and sounding pretentious.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | One past thread:
       | 
       |  _Use YouTube to improve your English pronunciation_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20225093 - June 2019 (236
       | comments)
        
       | eastendguy wrote:
       | Anything like this for Chinese?
        
         | eastendguy wrote:
         | Ah, it supports many languages - great!
        
         | loxias wrote:
         | I just saw that it did and yelled out with glee. Now I just
         | gotta tie this to google translate, some earbuds, a hand
         | control for my pocket, and software glue and confuse the HECK
         | out of my (native Chinese speaking) partner.
        
       | zepearl wrote:
       | Nice :)
       | 
       | So, router seems to be pronounced with "UK" selected as "rooter",
       | with "US" selected as "rauter".
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | In Britain, route rhyming with boot means the path travelled.
         | Rout rhyming with sprout means cutting a slot in wood etc.
         | 
         | The same difference holds for router and router.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | The rule is not hard and fast, however. Some BrE speakers
           | will use "root" for "path travelled", and I've heard both BrE
           | and AmE speakers describe their spinning bladed power tool as
           | a "rooter".
        
       | Imnimo wrote:
       | I looked up "synecdoche" (to see if it would give me this video
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-n1vGeVIXo), and a few of the
       | examples are of people saying "Schenectady" but mis-transcribed.
       | I guess you can just use your judgment to filter out a few
       | mistakes, so no big deal.
        
       | 2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote:
       | I love it! Though the results for "buoy" were mixed! (British guy
       | catering presumably to intl/US audience pronouncing it
       | incorrectly :D)
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-02 23:01 UTC)