[HN Gopher] Mysorean Rockets
___________________________________________________________________
Mysorean Rockets
Author : Thevet
Score : 171 points
Date : 2021-11-02 04:46 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| qart wrote:
| Does anyone here know who developed this technology? A frequent
| complaint I have with Indian historiography is that the actual
| inventors and developers are forgotten, and kings get all the
| credit. All that my middle-school textbooks said was Tipu Sultan
| used them against the Brits.
| knadh wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rockets
| qart wrote:
| This was one of the first links in the article on Mysorean
| Rockets. In what way do you believe this answers my question?
| hiyer wrote:
| According to this book[1] war rockets were used in India at
| least as early as the 14th century, and mughal emperor Akbar
| used metal-headed ones in the 16th. So it would seem neither
| rockets nor metal ones were invented by Tipu. However it
| doesn't answer your question of who _did_ invent the war rocket
| :-)
|
| 1. The Mughal Empire at War: Babur, Akbar and the Indian
| Military Revolution, 1500-1605 (Asian States and Empires)
| https://www.amazon.in/dp/B01EX69NJ0/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_DMX...
|
| Edit: added the link
| hiyer wrote:
| But IIUC what you want to who under Tipu's rule invented (or
| revived) this rocket. You're probably right in thinking it
| wasn't Tipu himself who did this, since he was a king and not
| a scientist. But i suspect the real inventor's name is lost
| to history.
| qart wrote:
| > IIUC what you want to who under Tipu's rule invented (or
| revived) this rocket.
|
| Precisely. Tipu's subjects, but also subjects from other
| Indian kingdoms who invented and developed stuff.
| kamaal wrote:
| >>All that my middle-school textbooks said was Tipu Sultan used
| them against the Brits.
|
| The area that is now Karnataka, or erst while state of
| Mysore/Deccan has a rich culture of knowledge and art that has
| been pervasive regardless of the political entities that have
| ruled over them.
|
| Its also understandable as that area has relatively more peace,
| stability and tolerance compared to other areas in the sub-
| continent, hence economic-knowledge prosperity follows from
| there.
|
| Tipu like many before him was the beneficiary of a long going
| positive social inertia. No doubt he was good, but he had a lot
| going for him.
|
| Even as of now. Karnataka has done relatively compared to bulk
| of India since Independence.
| rep_movsd wrote:
| Tipu is respected by a lot of people, but the genocide of
| Coorgis who opposed him is well known history.
|
| There are a lot of movements against historically
| whitewashing his rule.
| kamaal wrote:
| Even a child with a Mobile phone today can read what they
| want to read. What's whitewashing in this world?
|
| That's with anything today, not just history.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| "Even a child with a Mobile phone today can read what
| they want to read."
|
| And yet ignorance is just and high and snake oil salesmen
| have record profits
| naruvimama wrote:
| A child searching for 'hakken kreuz' on wikipedia would
| be quite confused, if only the child would actually read
| what the man who came up with it wrote about it in his
| book.
|
| A lot of motivated misinformation exists even for the
| most studied symbol.
|
| Let us not underestimate the deliberate whitewashing or
| brownwashing that happens in India.
| fmajid wrote:
| In _The Star-Spangled Banner_ , the "rocket's red glare" refers
| to British Congreve rockets that were copies of Mysore's rockets
| made when they captured the arsenals after defeating Tipu Sultan
| by treachery.
| NoImmatureAdHom wrote:
| "Copies" isn't quite correct. They were much improved.
| lazyninja987 wrote:
| Tipu Sultan was a cruel ruler, and got soundly defeated by a
| superior, well supplied force despite Tipu having access to
| rockets.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Mysore_Wars
|
| What is this treachery you are talking about ?
| Guessnotgauss wrote:
| From the first Amazon book I could find on India "Britain
| held back political progress in India for as long as possible
| - a policy which led to unimaginable chaos and suffering when
| independence was granted, and which created a legacy of
| hatred and distrust that continues to this day. "
|
| Ever heard the saying "divde and conquer" its an Roman
| saying(?) but the British used this tactic often during their
| colonialism. Their oppression in the region goes much deeper,
| you can read up on it since there are many books.
| naruvimama wrote:
| The strength of a nation is decided by the weakest link,
| political weakness (and correctness) provided an
| opportunity to political forces backed by religious
| fanaticism.
|
| This applies to both Islamic as well as Christian
| colonisation. It does not not make one necessarily better
| than the other when it comes to native people.
|
| To those objecting to the later, a little bit of study will
| show that the doctrine of christian discovery was the
| primary driver and that the missionaries were not only the
| scouts but also enthusiastically took part in all forms of
| colonialism including the slave trade.
| saimiam wrote:
| The link you supplied makes no mention of Tipu Sultan being a
| cruel ruler. Even Tipu Sultan's own wiki page @
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipu_Sultan does not contain
| the word 'cruel'.
|
| Not sure how to read your comment but this is what I found.
| naruvimama wrote:
| Tipu like his contemporary Islamic rulers carried out
| frequent massacres of Hindus. Perhaps because it was too
| common among the islamic rulers that it is often not
| considered unique enough to Tipu.
|
| There has also been plenty of whitewashingg of both Islamic
| & colonial-christian history under a "secular independent
| India". But social media is starting to open up alternative
| voices, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLMjUk9utaU&t=75s
| pkd wrote:
| Claims about Tipu Sultan's "cruelty" come primarily from
| English "scholars" who were actually fighting against
| him. It was a well-known policy of the British to portray
| their enemies as tyrants to gather legitimacy for their
| warmongering. Any such claims should be taken with a
| massive dollop of salt.
|
| I'm surprised how many of these "alternative voices"
| reject western narratives about India but are all too
| happy to parrot colonial talking points about Muslims.
| lazyninja987 wrote:
| We dont need english historians to show how psycopath
| tipu was.
|
| Tipu issued many decree's claiming how he converted lakhs
| of hindus, and describing in detail what he will do to
| people who didn't convert. In some cases, going into
| detail on how the non-believers will be striken down like
| moses struck the pharoahs.
|
| "I'm surprised how many of these "alternative voices"
| reject western narratives about India but are all too
| happy to parrot colonial talking points about Muslims."
|
| The same can be said about you, Indians dont talk trash
| about qutub shahi's, who are just & kind. But, when the
| topic of aurangazeb and tipu's cruelty comes up, gets
| triggered with out looking at evidence.
| naruvimama wrote:
| Islamic colonisation is real and no less cruel that the
| European one.
|
| Indian muslims are still largely colonised and therefore
| the partition of India and the massacre of millions of
| Hindus even as recently as 1971 in Bangladesh.
|
| It is indeed sad to see that Indian muslims today
| continue to associate themselves with the islamic
| conquerors who had raped, killed and/or forced their
| ancestors to convert.
|
| The whitewashing of Islamic tyranny in India is so
| obvious that even children do not accept it as it is
| taught in schools.
| lazyninja987 wrote:
| Tipu's wikipedia page has been so whitewashed even
| caucasians are jealous of it.
|
| Tipu relocated men of kodagu to various corners of his
| empire, so that they wont fight him erasing their identity,
| converted all wives and daughters of these kodagu fighters
| and distributed among his army like livestock.
|
| he rounded up thousands of mangalore christians apparently
| for no reason, and kept them as slaves under appalling
| conditions for over 10 years until most of them converted.
| Post his death, whoever held through this torture were
| liberated by british army.
|
| The reason why they were held captive? Tipu felt like it &
| since they are not muslims, they deserve this treatment.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Mangalorean_Cath
| o...
|
| British may be conniving, once british looted you, they
| would leave you & your culture alone. Tipu on the other
| hand, will kill you, rape your women, wipe out of your
| culture. So, its no wonder kodagu people silently supported
| british in their fight with tipu.
| aaron695 wrote:
| Recreated and flown -
|
| https://ne-np.facebook.com/peaceworld313/videos/tipu-sultan-...
| major505 wrote:
| I love the fact that someone in the drawing just put a bayonet in
| a rocket. That's some taticool thing over there...
| major505 wrote:
| By attaching these blades to rockets they became very unstable
| towards the end of their flight causing the blades to spin
| around like flying scythes, cutting down soldiers in their
| path.
| wanderingmind wrote:
| "Towards the end of my visit at NASA, I went to the Wallops
| Flights Facility at Wallops Island in East coast, Virginia. This
| place was the base for NASA's sounding rocket programme. Here I
| saw a painting prominently displayed in the reception lobby. It
| depicted a battle scene with a few rockets flying in the
| background. A painting with this theme should be the most common
| place thing at a flight facility, but the painting caught my eye,
| because the soldiers on the side launching the rockets were not
| white but were dark skinned, with racial features found in South
| Asia. It turned out to be Tipu Sultans army fighting the British.
| The painting depicted a fact forgotten in Tipu's own country but
| commemorated here on the other side of the planet."
|
| Source -- Wings of fire, an autobiography of Dr. A.P.J. Abdul
| Kalam.
| anitil wrote:
| There's an interesting episode about Tipu Sultan on the podcast
| 'Stuff the British Stole' by Marc Fenell ('that movie... guy'
| for any aussies of a certain age), if anyone is interested.
|
| https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/stuff-the-brit...
| [deleted]
| overtomanu wrote:
| APJ Abdul Kalam was also known as the 'Missile Man of India'
| for his contribution to the development of India's missile
| projects, Prithvi and Agni missiles. India became a nuclear
| power under Kalam who was the Chief Scientific Adviser to the
| Prime Minister between 1992 and 1999
| account-5 wrote:
| Thanks, I love this sort of thing. I'm always amazed how advanced
| we were throughout history, mostly with war.
| OneTimePetes wrote:
| War makes the rulers forget for one moment, the fragile system
| of controlled stagnation on the inside and allow those who
| would otherwise be condemned to rot in forgotten labs to shine
| for a second. War removes the anti-disruption brakes inherent
| to any power system.
| account-5 wrote:
| Is that a quote, or something you came up with?
| sandGorgon wrote:
| This is so cool. Never knew this !
|
| Tipu Sultan was awesome.
| vishnugupta wrote:
| While we are at it, don't miss this reference to Bangalores[1] in
| Saving Private Ryan[2].
|
| Interestingly enough, the unit in question, Madras Sappers[3] and
| MEG (Madras Engineers Group, I think) still exists in Bangalore
| when the city in question (Madras) itself has changed its name to
| Chennai ;-) [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangalore_torpedo [2]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlCItO2jEJw [3]
| https://goo.gl/maps/3EKcbYuNbJ9Ury7h9
| phekunde wrote:
| One thing that is curious about the Indian sub-continent is their
| mythological texts. There are two well-known epic texts: The
| Mahabhrat and The Ramayan. Both these texts talk about
| aeroplanes, teleportations, rockets, test-tube baby, body
| preservation and medicines that heal serious battle injuries. And
| it is talked about in a matter-of-fact way, as if there is no
| novelty in these technologies. The frustrating part of these
| texts is the mixing of facts with fiction. So it becomes
| difficult to know what was really available back then. But the
| sheer thought that ancient humans atleast dreamt these advance
| ideas makes one wonder what type of civilisation was there back
| then?
| bladewolf47 wrote:
| I could be wrong because I haven't read unabridged versions of
| either. My sense is we tend to relate what was described
| abstractly with advancements we see around us.
|
| For e.g. with flying vehicles in ancient epics I'm skeptical
| that they describe in any detail how flight was achieved
| besides magic or divine power.
| phekunde wrote:
| > My sense is we tend to relate what was described abstractly
| with advancements we see around us.
|
| How is the mention of ""vaayu yaan" abstract? Can we
| similarly say that to the mention of present day "aeroplane"
| abstract and dismiss it as non-existent?
|
| > For e.g. with flying vehicles in ancient epics I'm
| skeptical that they describe in any detail how flight was
| achieved besides magic or divine power.
|
| In present day writings(fiction or otherwise) when we mention
| flights or aeroplane, we don't mention every nut and bolt of
| the aeroplane. So saying the ancient text did not give much
| details is unfair to those texts. As I mentioned in my
| original post, these advance ideas were mentioned in a
| matter-of-fact way as if it is not a novelty, similar to how
| we now mention air travel or space flights.
| blackoil wrote:
| There is a lack of consistency and continuity. We had
| aeroplane in stories but no similar ground vehicle like
| Car/train, which should have been invented earlier if
| technology was present. We had vision across space/time but
| no knowledge of places outside India.
| phekunde wrote:
| We had teleportation ;) Jokes aside, the link between
| car/trains and aerial vehicles is superficial. There is
| no hard requirement that one has to come before the
| other.
| thechao wrote:
| > were mentioned in a matter-of-fact way as if it is not a
| novelty
|
| You've said this twice now. In persuasive writing, once you
| state a fact, you must draw a conclusion, clearly. Please,
| draw for me your conclusion.
|
| Since we're asynchronous, it appears that the conclusion
| you're drawing is that these texts refer to real things
| that actually existed: heavier than air flight,
| spaceflight, test-tube babies, etc. Since we know _where_
| (fairly precisely) these things took place, we should have
| significant archaeological evidence for them. Could you
| point me to the physical proof of these? Because, I feel
| like these objects would 've come up in my readings,
| before.
|
| If you're not drawing the conclusion they actually existed,
| what conclusion are you drawing?
| phekunde wrote:
| > it appears that the conclusion you're drawing is that
| these texts refer to real things that actually existed
|
| Please read the last line of my original post.
|
| > If you're not drawing the conclusion they actually
| existed, what conclusion are you drawing?
|
| I am saying, that the description given in the text is
| too specific for it to be dismissed right away. And even
| if it is hokum, then the sheer level of imagination of
| ancient civilisation to mention flying vehicles,
| missiles, teleportation, body preservation and test-tube
| baby is appreciable. It will be good to know what type of
| civilisation was that that was able to imagine these
| advance concepts.
|
| > Since we know where (fairly precisely) these things
| took place, we should have significant archaeological
| evidence for them.
|
| Sure, I am all for scientific evidence. In fact I would
| like to see that it is either supported or refuted with
| evidence. From some of the comments it looks like for
| rejecting a hypothesis no evidence is required, but for
| supporting it evidence is demanded. If there is no
| evidence to either support or refute it, then the matter
| should be inconclusive rather than concluding it either
| way.
| thechao wrote:
| Off the top of my head "flying vehicles" and "body
| preservation" are well-attested in many other cultures
| (Ancient Egypt; Mayans) that I'm 100% certain had
| neither. You are _for sure_ reading too much into this.
|
| > And even if it is hokum
|
| I 99% believe that you think these things are real; I
| don't know if you're a von Danikenite, but you sure talk
| like one.
|
| > If there is no evidence to either support or refute it
|
| There _is_ evidence that there 's no evidence: we've been
| digging holes all over the world for centuries, looking
| for raw materials -- quadruply so, very recently, in the
| Indian subcontinent. If there was a civilization capable
| of supporting space-age technology, we'd've found it by
| now.
| phekunde wrote:
| > I 99% believe that you think these things are real;
|
| Again, go read the last sentence of my original post.
|
| > There is evidence that there's no evidence: we've been
| digging holes....very recently, in the Indian
| subcontinent.
|
| Hmmm.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| I'll bite!
|
| The conclusion is that there were ancient civilizations
| that we don't currently have archeological evidence for.
| If you know anything about archeological research in
| India, you know that it is far, far from comprehensive.
|
| Here's a small example: Shiva is often represented
| smoking a chillum. Yet, the accepted understanding is
| that smoking was developed in the Americas and no smoking
| in the old world took place pre-1492. It would therefore
| be a major discovery to establish that a chillum was
| precolumbian. There simply isn't a research base (no
| funding, no training) to investigate even simple
| questions like this.
|
| Might we find evidence of, say, metallurgy that is 10,000
| years old in India? Perhaps! Should we expect to?
| Probably not. Should we do more archaeological research
| in India? 100% Who will fund it?
| vanattab wrote:
| Nobody thinks smoking originated in the new world.
| Smoking TOBACCO originated in the new world, because at
| that time it was the only place tobacco grew.
| thechao wrote:
| Smoking is attested both archeologically, and
| historiographically dating back something like 7000 years
| in the old world. People have been smoking opium &
| marijuana in the middle east for probably 2000 years.
| Smoking culture in India goes back at least 3000 years.
| Anyone who's accidentally put the wrong thing on a fire
| will immediately recognize the source for "smoking".
|
| This makes me feel like the rest of your comment is
| probably not accurate, either.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Bro. Smoking is not the same as putting the wrong thing
| on a fire. And, while evidence of hotboxing cannabis in
| tents goes back 3000 years, there is minimal evidence of
| pipe smoking in the old world. Maybe a bit in Africa--
| but not conclusive.
|
| No evidence for smoking pipes in India before 1500.
| Source:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_smoking
| paxys wrote:
| You can say the same thing about mythology from other cultures
| (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Chinese, Arthurian and hundreds
| more). Ultimately human imagination works the same way
| worldwide.
| blackoil wrote:
| Most of these were novel and rare mostly given as a boon by the
| Gods. We also have monkeys, vulture, bear with human like or
| beyond intelligence. The numbers were off by all practical
| imaginations. Armies were of order of 10^7 - 10^70.
| jimsimmons wrote:
| But but my WhatsApp forward said ancient Indians also had VR
| and AR so anything is possible. /s
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Both these texts talk about aeroplanes, teleportations,
| rockets, test-tube baby, body preservation and medicines that
| heal serious battle injuries. And it is talked about in a
| matter-of-fact way, as if there is no novelty in these
| technologies. The frustrating part of these texts is the mixing
| of facts with fiction. So it becomes difficult to know what was
| really available back then. But the sheer thought that ancient
| humans atleast dreamt these advance ideas makes one wonder what
| type of civilisation was there back then?
|
| If ancient civilization actually realized any of those
| technologies, I'm certain it would have left a significant
| archeological trace that would have been discovered by now. For
| instance: an actual airplane (as opposed to a glider) would
| need a significant industrial base for the engine and fuel that
| we'd probably see all kinds of evidence for. I don't think
| that's the kind of thing a solo inventor or even a city-state
| could manage independently.
| snambi wrote:
| Depends on, how long ago those events happened and the amount
| of human activity in the area.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| There's the ancient atomic war theory:
|
| https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/thedanispost/resea.
| ..
|
| https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4541
| [deleted]
| renewiltord wrote:
| It's just sci fi. If you read a modern sci fi book you'll find
| casual references to spaceplanes, wormholes, and stuff like
| that.
|
| In many of them, the characters won't even remark about the
| wormholes. It's normal.
|
| Like almost all ancient literature, Gods are just the primary
| medium via which the ideas are delivered. So sci fi becomes
| divine sci fi, drama becomes divine drama, etc.
| phekunde wrote:
| Yep, this could be one potent reasoning. And that is why I
| said in my original post that it will be interesting to find
| out about that ancient civilisation that was able to think
| about so many advance concepts.
| ajuc wrote:
| There's a weird effect with these things - myths from other
| cultures seem fascinating and indicate Atlantis-like
| civilizations. Similar myths from you own culture are obviously
| just boring metaphors and scary stories to make children
| behave.
|
| For example the Tower of Babel could be interpreted as aliens
| destroying a space program (possibly space elevator) with mind-
| control technology. But with the cultural baggage of the
| christian civilization we interpret it very differently.
|
| The story about Jericho could be about nuclear weapons or
| orbital bombardment.
|
| The story about Lazarus could be some advanced medicine.
|
| There's a lot of this stuff in any culture - but they seem more
| awesome when you weren't indoctrinated about the "correct"
| interpretations since you were a child.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _they seem more awesome when you weren 't indoctrinated
| about the "correct" interpretations since you were a child_
|
| This isn't totally true in India. I've had relatives
| seriously contemplate ancient Indian civilizations with
| heavier-than-air flight, nuclear weapons and even orbital
| capabilities. (A similar thing happened in industrializing
| Britain and Prussia, so maybe it's just a natural thing in a
| culture undergoing rapid industrialization.)
| ArnoVW wrote:
| As an aside, for those interested : this sort of "paleo-
| contact" ideas were proposed by Erich von Daniken. Aztec
| lines are space-ports, the flaming angel from the bible is a
| landing space craft, etc.
|
| Someone even made a sci-fi cartoon about it, that 8-year-old
| me enjoyed =) It can't be that hard to find a PDF somewhere.
|
| https://wearethemutants.com/2020/04/30/ancient-astronaut-
| com...
| phekunde wrote:
| > For example the Tower of Babel could be interpreted as...
|
| But there is no need for interpretation or misinterpretation
| of some of these texts because the text directly mentions the
| transportation e.g. in Raamaayan, the then king of
| Lanka(present day Shri Lanka), Raavan, flew from Lanka on his
| "vaayu yaan"(i.e. aeroplane) to Panchavati(in present day
| Nashik in the western state of Maharashtra in India) to
| kidnap Sitaa, wife of Raam.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _flew from Lanka on his "vaayu yaan"(i.e. aeroplane)_
|
| That _id est_ contains a large interpretive leap. Is every
| culture 's flying chariot also a heavier-than-air flying
| machine? And every chariot carrying the Moon a lunar
| lander?
| phekunde wrote:
| > Is every culture's flying chariot also a heavier-than-
| air flying machine?
|
| Who said it was a chariot? I think you are linking some
| "flying chariot" from other text to "vaayu yaan" from
| some different text. "vaayu" means "air" and "yaan" means
| "vehicle". This is far more specific that "flying
| chariot".
|
| > And every chariot carrying the Moon a lunar lander?
|
| Just curious, isn't carrying a Moon very different from
| landing on the Moon? Equating "carrying a Moon" to
| "landing on Moon" does not even mean same thing, so that
| can be thought as extrapolation. But the more specifics
| of "using vaayu yaan" to travel on earth from Lanka(which
| exists today) to Panchavati(which also exists today) does
| not need the extrapolation as was required in the
| previous sentence.
| blackoil wrote:
| One problem with this line of logic is that we don't have
| any written text 1000s of years old, so we don't know if
| the words were changed in later renditions or if the
| story itself has been modified for changing times.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _" vaayu" means "air" and "yaan" means "vehicle"_
|
| Which is a valid translation for most mythology's flying
| chariots. We use the translation "chariot" because, at
| the time, the only vehicles we know of in the relevant
| culture _were_ chariots.
| phekunde wrote:
| > Which is a valid translation for most mythology's
| flying chariots.
|
| No, that is not true. Your own sentence use the word
| "most". In Indian there is a distinction between
| vehicle("yaan") and chariot("rath").
|
| > We use the translation "chariot" because, at the time,
| the only vehicles we know of in the relevant culture were
| chariots.
|
| How do you know? If the ancient text itself makes a
| distinction between "vaayu yaan" and "rath" then that
| indicates there were more than one modes of
| transportation.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| That might just mean the authors were smarter than their
| contemporaries, and realized that an air-traveling
| vehicle probably wouldn't look like a chariot.
|
| Which does speak to their scientific knowledge, even
| absent an actual vehicle existing, given that their peers
| couldn't reason past "this thing we have on land, but in
| the air."
| ben_w wrote:
| I'm imagining a similar debate in antiquity as I witness
| today whenever I suggest a helicopter does all the things
| people say they want from a flying car.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > Which is a valid translation for most mythology's
| flying chariots
|
| >> _No, that is not true. Your own sentence use the word
| "most"._
|
| This is a _non sequitur_. The claim was "flying vehicle"
| is a valid translation for what is commonly translated as
| "flying chariot" in most cultures, _i.e._ non-Indian
| cultures. (It 's certainly so for Ancient Egyptian myths,
| for which, unlike _Ramayana_ , we have contemporaneous
| sources.)
|
| I'm actually struggling to think of a culture which (a)
| had, at the very least, chariots or something like them
| and (b) couldn't have some part of its ancient mythology
| properly translated as "flying vehicle." Maybe Sumerian?
|
| >> _In Indian there is a distinction between vehicle(
| "yaan") and chariot("rath")._
|
| Clarification: in modern Hindi.
| phekunde wrote:
| >> In Indian there is a distinction between
| vehicle("yaan") and chariot("rath").
|
| > Clarification: in modern Hindi.
|
| https://kosha.sanskrit.today/word/en/Chariot/sa
|
| You don't know Samskrut, do you?
| jimsimmons wrote:
| Vaayu yaan means air travel not aeroplane. Your slight of
| hand here and overall comment history suggests you're
| parroting some right wing propaganda. Tell me something,
| why do people like you always find things that exist now in
| the past but not things that will exist? If airplanes and
| testtube babies are mentioned, why aren't there any
| mentions of things that modern society will invent in a few
| years, decades or centuries? I'll give you a hint: you
| don't have them because you can't retrofit those. Once
| someone invents them, then you can find vaguely related
| sentences in a large corpus of Indian origin and claim
| _there was something there_.
| blackoil wrote:
| "Yaan" mean vehicle in Hindi/Sanskrit.
| [deleted]
| jimsimmons wrote:
| Prayaan(a) is traveling/marching in Hindi, Gujarati,
| Kannada. No vehicle involved. Sanskrit and Hindi aren't
| exchangeable.
| phekunde wrote:
| "yaan" means both vehicle and travel. You both are
| correct :)
| ajuc wrote:
| "Air vehicle" meaning "aeroplane" is an interpretation. I
| could interpret it as sailing ship for example. Or a
| ballon. Possibly something like a chinese lampion which
| were already known 2000 years ago so it's not a big
| stretch.
| phekunde wrote:
| > I could interpret it as sailing ship
|
| In air? Then how is it better than the general
| characterisation as "Air vehicle"?
|
| > Or a ballon.
|
| Yeah, could be. And flying a balloon from Sri Lanka to
| Nashik(while crossing ocean) and back again would have
| been an achievement in itself during that period.
| ajuc wrote:
| > In air?
|
| Why "in" air? Could just mean it's a regular sailing ship
| - after all they are powered by "air" so they are "air
| vehicles". Or it could be made out of air. In which case
| you could claim Indians had inflatable ships thousands of
| years ago :)
|
| > And flying a balloon from Sri Lanka to Nashik(while
| crossing ocean) and back again would have been an
| achievement in itself during that period.
|
| Of course, my point was that there are many possible
| interpretations and when you say no interpretation is
| needed you're just showing your cultural baggage.
|
| There's a legend about Pan Twardowski. In it a nobleman
| makes a deal with the devil and forces him to do various
| impossible feats to avoid going to hell. One of these
| feats was "making a whip rope out of sand". Optical fiber
| is basically a rope made out of sand :) After that the
| nobleman escaped from the devil and landed on the moon
| (where he lives to this day).
|
| It's pretty obvious to me that it's just a legend, but if
| I wanted to interpret it literally then Poles were on the
| moon in 16th century and had optical internet :)
| AkshatM wrote:
| This is a well-known and popularized myth about the ancient
| scriptures which plays on patriotic feeling by claiming
| "uniqueness" and advancement in ancient India. It is manifestly
| not true or based in fact that any of these technologies
| existed at the time - there's simply too many holes (why didn't
| any other culture reproduce these fantastic feats or obtain
| access to these? where is the archaeological record? why did no
| other text from the time corroborate this story?), and the best
| "evidence" the scriptures even talk about this are generous
| translations that don't accord with the actual historical or
| linguistic data.
|
| This sort of myth is yet another distortion of the past in
| favour of a narrative enshrining pre-modern India as superior
| that has taken ahold of my country. Only in India will people
| claim Valmiki's is the only valid version of the Ramayana
| (there are hundreds of versions of the Ramayana, some told as
| far as Thailand, of which Valmiki's is just one - see A. K.
| Ramanujam's "Three Hundred Ramayanas"); make homeopathy derived
| from Ayurveda a nationally accredited field of medicine despite
| overwhelming clinical evidence it is no better than a placebo;
| and claim the Vedas predicted the inventions we take for
| granted today. It is misplaced reverence untempered by an
| awareness of how to interpret historical documents, and all it
| serves is to blind people to facts and common sense.
| adictator wrote:
| Those are called ITIHAASA which literally means "it so
| happened". In other words, they are history & not mythology.
| Just because the current generation cannot comprehend them does
| not mean they are myths. For example, I have personally seen
| saadhus / yogis who have mastered Yoga live absolutely naked in
| the sub-frigid temperatures of the himalayas. Science has not
| been able to explain this other than calling them miracles or
| like you calling them myths. Please show some respect & do not
| call ITIHAASA as myths.
| naruvimama wrote:
| 'matter-of-fact' - what is more important is that the after
| effects/side effect are eerily accurate so makes it hard to
| dismiss it as mere imagination.
|
| In the Hindu thought, everything is cyclical including the
| birth and death of the universe. It is not human or earth
| centric, talks about other planets or worlds requiring space
| travel, space-time effects of travel. Nagas - advanced
| reptilian people who precede humans and in some stories come to
| the aid of humans sound alien or a parallel species.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-11-02 23:01 UTC)