[HN Gopher] Apple: Ten Years Forward
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple: Ten Years Forward
        
       Author : rcarmo
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2021-11-01 08:03 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mondaynote.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mondaynote.com)
        
       | apeace wrote:
       | I wholly agree with the analysis here, mostly because I've been
       | blown away by how much my Apple Watch has benefited my health.
       | Apple's implementation of a consumer health experience is _really
       | good_ so far.
       | 
       | I have a scale that tells me my weight and body fat percentage,
       | and it is able to sync directly into Apple Health. And yet, the
       | scale isn't able to _read_ any of my health data, including my
       | weight! They have done a great job with Apple Health, making your
       | data accessible and yet easy to set permissions so it 's in your
       | control.
       | 
       | The author mentions blood glucose monitoring, and I'm sure Apple
       | will attempt to do that at some point. But there are so many more
       | things they could potentially do.
       | 
       | How about a chest strap for workouts? I'm fascinated by how my
       | watch measures my VO2 max for me, but it seems like it would be
       | far more accurate with more inputs.
       | 
       | What if Apple Watch, or some other device, could detect heart
       | attacks? It can already detect some heartbeat irregularities.
       | 
       | I'm sure Apple could make an even better scale than the one I
       | already have. My understanding is the body composition readings
       | aren't too accurate on those things.
       | 
       | Imagine an Apple weight loss program: guaranteed to lose 10lbs in
       | 2 months if you follow the instructions your watch gives you!
       | 
       | Here would be the real killer for me: what if Apple made glasses
       | which could detect all the food you eat and log the calories and
       | nutrients? I've done a fair amount of manual meal logging into
       | apps that integrate with Apple Health, and it can be really
       | helpful for monitoring your diet. But typing every meal into your
       | phone isn't scalable -- I inevitably give up after a couple
       | weeks.
       | 
       | One more thing: how can hospitals and doctors get access to this
       | data? I've done some searching for a primary care physician that
       | has the ability to integrate with Apple Health, and I haven't
       | found any. Can Apple create a paid service that empowers service
       | providers with more data?
       | 
       | I think Apple is the company that can 1) build the best, most
       | high-tech consumer health products, and 2) sell the value of
       | those products to the public.
       | 
       | Cars and AR are cool, too, but, as the author points out,
       | consumers aren't really seeing the value in those. If Apple can
       | make its health products even more life-changing than they
       | already are, then someday we will live in a world where it's
       | weird to not be monitoring your health, like it would be weird to
       | not have a smartphone these days.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | _How about a chest strap for workouts?_
         | 
         | Not to detract from your overall point, but just about any
         | Bluetooth heart rate strap will work with the Apple Watch.
         | Wahoo has one that folks report works. Personally, I have a
         | Polar H10 that does both Bluetooth for Apple Watch, and ANT+
         | for my Garmin watch.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _What if Apple Watch, or some other device, could detect heart
         | attacks? It can already detect some heartbeat irregularities._
         | 
         | This would require years, maybe even decades of study. Apple
         | can't just flip a switch and do this. Medical diagnostics is
         | heavily regulated for a reason. It's entirely possible that
         | Apple is working on this, or something like it. But you won't
         | see it for a very very long time.
         | 
         |  _how can hospitals and doctors get access to this data? I 've
         | done some searching for a primary care physician that has the
         | ability to integrate with Apple Health, and I haven't found
         | any._
         | 
         | This exists. Until recently I lived in a city where this was
         | possible, but my GP wasn't on the list. You can see a list in
         | the Health app. But there are hundreds of thousands of
         | practices just in the United States, many on incompatible
         | systems. It will take a very long time for it to be available
         | nationwide.
        
           | diebeforei485 wrote:
           | It's unfortunate that warning people about potential issues
           | is regulated like giving people an official diagnosis.
        
           | penjelly wrote:
           | From what ive heard from doctor youtubers and doctors ive
           | spoken to myself, they get far more false positives due to
           | heart rate fluctuations and users panicking then they do get
           | benefits from the watches right now. I do agree that in the
           | future this will be very useful data. But as it stands right
           | now i believe doctors default to not trusting anything that
           | isnt a professional tool for monitoring heart rate
        
           | apeace wrote:
           | > This would require years, maybe even decades of study.
           | Apple can't just flip a switch and do this.
           | 
           | Point taken, but I think that's why I phrased it as a "what
           | if?" Because if they _could_ , it would be one of the most
           | sought-after health products on the market.
           | 
           | > This exists. Until recently I lived in a city where this
           | was possible, but my GP wasn't on the list. You can see a
           | list in the Health app.
           | 
           | Yes, the list seems to be mostly hospitals and labs. The next
           | time I get lab work I'll certainly try to synchronize it.
           | 
           | What I really want is for my GP to have a high-level view of
           | some of my habits. Why is my GP asking me, "are you
           | exercising regularly?" What is regularly? I want him to tell
           | me "I see you're doing lots of strength training but not very
           | much cardio, you may want to work that in to your routine."
           | The data is there, and my doctor could probably pull better
           | insights from it than I could give him verbally.
           | 
           | So _if_ Apple could solve this for many incompatible systems,
           | I think it would be very popular both for doctor 's offices
           | and their patients.
        
       | qaq wrote:
       | Apple Cloud could be nice
        
         | jensensbutton wrote:
         | Please no. Would be the most nickel and diming cloud in
         | existence.
        
           | qaq wrote:
           | You just made AWS managers very sad :) I can't say Apple
           | services nickel and dime you though. They are priced fairly
           | reasonably.
        
       | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
       | Apple is on the way to having the same problem as Facebook -
       | becoming an uncool brand for older people.
       | 
       | The under-30s increasingly care about climate change and other
       | more immediate threats. Unless they have Type 1 diabetes, blood
       | glucose is not an issue for them.
       | 
       | Apple under Jobs did a solid job of making _cool_ lifestyle
       | accessories for all ages and genders.
       | 
       | Apple under Cook has drifted towards a kind of white picket
       | Disneyfied techtopia, where the sun always shines, people always
       | smile, everyone is very creative and colourful but also
       | professional, fit, and focused. And it's somehow very sterile and
       | boring.
       | 
       | As a result Apple missed out on the user-generated content wave,
       | which was owned by YouTube and then TikTok. Apple already had
       | some of the basic infrastructure in place with podcasting, but a
       | middle aged outlook meant it missed the (mildly but
       | interestingly) anarchic possibilities.
       | 
       | And that's going to be a problem for the future. Jobs was
       | anarchic enough to want to shake things up but stable enough to
       | make the shaking work (mostly).
       | 
       | Cook is small-c conservative, safe, and suburban in outlook. And
       | now Apple is too.
       | 
       | Asking what The Next Big Consumer Thing will be is already
       | missing the point because it assumes a model where there is a
       | Next Big Consumer Thing and it's important enough to matter.
       | 
       | Ten years from now that's going to look like a weird and dated
       | assumption. There will be much more chaos and uncertainty, and I
       | suspect Big Consumer Things will be less important to everyone
       | than they are now, and the people who are in their 10s-20s-30s
       | now will be looking for something entirely different.
        
         | cm277 wrote:
         | Erm... 30% of US teens own an Apple Watch [1]. The AW may be
         | the most underestimated gadget of all time...
         | 
         | [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/05/apple-now-most-
         | popular-...
        
           | lostmsu wrote:
           | This article is extremely bad, you shouldn't believe any
           | claims in it.
        
         | klelatti wrote:
         | Sorry don't see any evidence here that young people aren't
         | buying Apple devices.
         | 
         | One of the things that distinguishes Apple is its focus.
         | 
         | It's added services like Apple Music and TV but it absolutely
         | doesn't need to compete with TikTok etc.
        
         | The-Bus wrote:
         | > As a result Apple missed out on the user-generated content
         | wave, which was owned by YouTube and then TikTok.
         | 
         | I don't disagree with your take on Apple's perception. However,
         | I don't think UGC is the end-all be-all. UGC is only useful for
         | companies in the sense that it drives advertising. By changing
         | its Privacy policies, Apple has managed to triple its
         | advertising revenue in the last six months, now at $5B, with
         | expectations of reaching $20B in three years.[1]
         | 
         | UGC is nice, but so is having the hardware and OS that the UGC
         | runs on.
         | 
         | 1:
         | https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286...
         | ($)
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | _> By changing its Privacy policies_
           | 
           | ... is the new  "by leveraging its monopoly power" ...
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | Apple is not a monopoly in any way, shape or form.
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | How do you install not-iOS on an iPhone?
               | 
               | How do you install applications on iOS without involving
               | Apple?
               | 
               | How do you transfer your iOS apps over to non-iPhones?
               | 
               | Until there is a compelling answer to all three of those
               | then Apple is still a monopolist (when it comes to
               | phones, but similar lists apply to their other product
               | segments).
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | 24x7 blood-glucose monitoring could actually help people
         | understand better what they are eating and perhaps help to
         | reduce the obesity epidemic.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Coolness is one factor that attracts people to brands. Another
         | is trust.
         | 
         | Apple relies on trust, and tries to cultivate (though not
         | always successfully) coolness through innovation.
         | 
         | Show me a trustworthy mainstream alternative and I might agree
         | with you.
        
         | rcconf wrote:
         | I don't agree. Apple is definitely a cool brand because what is
         | the alternatives in the phone space for being cool? I can
         | guarantee you that no one thinks Android devices are "cool"
         | amongst the younger generation.
         | 
         | Apple is doing a fantastic job right now and I believe they're
         | going to do great in the next 10 years because of one really
         | simple fact:
         | 
         | Apple makes great products that just work and look great. No
         | other company has been able to do that. I was just gifted a
         | Fitbit and it failed about 5 times to pair to my phone. I
         | restarted both the device (5x) and phone and it finally worked.
         | How easy do you think it was for my girlfriend to setup her
         | Apple watch? That's when I was reminded why Apple is #1.
         | 
         | I think Apple should continue what they're doing, create great
         | products that just work and look great. It doesn't matter what
         | the next 10 years looks like if they can continue doing that
         | and I really think they can.
        
           | n3dm wrote:
           | Apple is the farthest from cool and actually is a borderline
           | embarrassment if you own their products for the majority of
           | my friends. I know we are the minority though.
        
             | jbc1 wrote:
             | What phone are the cool kids using these days?
        
           | WaltPurvis wrote:
           | I have a Fitbit Versa 3 that's gone and bricked itself in
           | less than seven months. But my Apple Watch's battery life is
           | <18 hours, so, for example, it's essentially impossible to
           | wear it during the day _and_ use it for sleep tracking
           | overnight. I 'd love it if Apple would come up with a fitness
           | tracker that ties in with the rest of the Apple ecosystem
           | and-- most importantly--has a multi-day battery life like
           | Fitbit's smart watches.
        
             | malyk wrote:
             | I charge mine for ~45 minutes or so between 9-10pm and it's
             | been great.
        
             | penjelly wrote:
             | im sure youre looking for a full on smart watch, but an
             | alternative that works for me are garmin runner watches. i
             | get notifications, can control music, start/end runs, time,
             | heart rate, VO2 max and an app that aggregates this stuff.
             | i dont really need much more then that.
        
           | randomluck040 wrote:
           | Apple maybe made great products that just worked but honestly
           | it isn't that simple anymore. With the Apple Watch, multiple
           | kinds of phones, iPads and Macs they definitely fragmented
           | their lineup to a point where they seem to have trouble to
           | maintain quality software-wise. I had so many issues with iOS
           | and iPadOS and always thought I'd be the only idiot who
           | doesn't know how to use a phone. Until I've started googling.
           | I don't even say Apple is not cool or whatever but don't give
           | me the ,,it just werks" because it simply isn't true.
        
           | ricardobayes wrote:
           | Apple is only king because people are lazy/stupid.
        
             | hipshaker wrote:
             | Ironically a lazy/stupid comment.
        
           | uuddlrlr wrote:
           | Do you have an Android phone? The bluetooth stack on Android
           | is a an atrocity.
        
             | hungryforcodes wrote:
             | It works as well or better than my iPhone 6's.
        
             | kd913 wrote:
             | AFAIK Android's bluetooth stack was rewritten from scratch
             | in rust for Android 11.
             | 
             | There are a bunch of options in the dev options including
             | what enabling the Gabeldorsche stack.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Good point, updating to Android 11 took my Bluetooth
               | connection from "spotty at best" to "nearly too
               | aggressive". If you have multi-point Bluetooth
               | accessories, Android 11+ devices will almost _always_ try
               | to steal your connection if Bluetooth is enabled. I can
               | 't tell if it's a feature or an issue, but it's certainly
               | better than the way it used to be.
        
           | pedalpete wrote:
           | > what is the alternatives in the phone space for being cool?
           | 
           | Phones aren't cool anymore, and neither is the iPhone. If you
           | think the iPhone is cool, let me introduce you to my
           | incredibly cool 70+ year old parents who love anything that
           | is bland.
           | 
           | Some things remain cool because they are fringe or have
           | uniqueness and character. Somehow cars have managed to remain
           | cool, but your average family sedan or SUV isn't cool, and
           | that's where the iPhone is.
           | 
           | So are there cool android phones, no. Probably not. Are
           | airpods cool, getting to be not so cool very quickly. iPads
           | definitely aren't cool.
           | 
           | Having said all that, it doesn't mean that Apple needs to
           | make the next cool thing to continue to be successful.
           | Microsoft hasn't been cool for ages, and arguably never was,
           | but Satya has found incredible growth opportunities.
           | 
           | Tesla is cool now, but it won't be in 20 years, but Musk will
           | have an incredible business.
           | 
           | I guess part of the problem for Apple is that they always
           | marketed themselves as "cool", but in my personal experience,
           | none of the cool kids are Apple fanboys anymore, it's the
           | ones who want to be seen as cool who are.
        
         | peruvian wrote:
         | Kids still buy or want iPhones and see blue bubbles as
         | desirable. As long as hardware sales are strong (and they are),
         | Apple can miss out on the next cool app or have services that
         | perform just okay.
        
         | tl wrote:
         | > Apple already had some of the basic infrastructure in place
         | with podcasting, but a middle aged outlook meant it missed the
         | (mildly but interestingly) anarchic possibilities.
         | 
         | While I have some criticisms of Apple, impugning them for doing
         | the best possible thing for an ecosystem seems like an odd
         | thing to attack. Sure, Spotify, Stitcher and others have
         | "innovated" with dynamic ad insertion and they occasionally
         | dump massive bags of money on a few individual podcasts like
         | Joe Rogan, but I don't view their profiteering as an
         | improvement.
        
         | mortenjorck wrote:
         | Millennials left Facebook for Snapchat and Zoomers for TikTok,
         | but where are either going to go if they leave Apple? Your
         | "white-picket Disneyfied techtopia" may be right on the mark,
         | but when Apple's mobile computing ecosystem is competing for
         | it-factor with the likes of _Samsung,_ there 's still no
         | competition.
         | 
         | Ultimately, it's not really about Apple's ever-more anodyne
         | first-party positioning; it's about the entertainment elite and
         | the influencers that continue to carry iPhones.
        
         | hungryforcodes wrote:
         | This exactly.
        
         | natch wrote:
         | I agree with pretty much all you said except I don't think
         | coolness is that much of a driving factor for Apple purchases.
         | Maybe Apple marketing layers on the cool hipster videos to make
         | it look that way, but that's just a surface level understanding
         | of what's going on. I often hear this as a misunderstanding
         | about why people use Apple products.
         | 
         | There are plenty of ways to be cool. And people young and old
         | understand that trying to be cool is not cool, and they don't
         | buy Apple to be cool. They buy Apple stuff for other reasons.
         | 
         | If I was trying super hard (not cool) to be cool, I would use a
         | flip phone or some oddball Android phone with an innovative
         | shape and look from China. And a nice looking watch, not a
         | square of glass.
         | 
         | People use Apple for the convenience (just works), quality, and
         | privacy. People interested primarily in coolness over these
         | factors use other products.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | Luxury and/or quality does not have to be cool.
        
         | rangoon626 wrote:
         | > As a result Apple missed out on the user-generated content
         | wave, which was owned by YouTube and then TikTok. Apple already
         | had some of the basic infrastructure in place with podcasting,
         | but a middle aged outlook meant it missed the (mildly but
         | interestingly) anarchic possibilities.
         | 
         | Agreed. Apple had the ENTIRE digital hub strategy nailed, with
         | fantastic tools.
        
         | jbc1 wrote:
         | For years every years flagship phone camera comparison reviews
         | have varied largely by reviewer preference over whose post
         | processing they prefer, which they often even note. Favourites
         | varying from brand to brand year to year. For photos.
         | 
         | I have never seen anyone suggest that another phone camera
         | touches the iPhone in terms of video quality. In fact in these
         | days of casual user content creation, this wave you say apple
         | missed, video remains a minor element of camera write ups and I
         | can't help but think it's because "if you care about shooting
         | video with your phone at all and have the money, get an iPhone"
         | is all that can be said on the matter.
         | 
         | Phone camera tech isn't stagnant. It's one of the(just the?)
         | most important factors people value in their phones. Apple is
         | making an intentional choice to prioritise video quality. I
         | hardly think that's them missing user generated content.
         | They're just cashing in at the device purchase level rather
         | than diving in to the algorithm driven ad feed engagement game.
        
         | michaelje wrote:
         | Apple has a significant role - UGC is facilitated hugely by the
         | iPhone.
        
       | klelatti wrote:
       | There are other factors that favour Apple in this market
       | (health).
       | 
       | Their brand is so much better than possible competitors and their
       | stance on privacy (flawed though it may be in respects) and use
       | of personal data gives them a huge advantage versus say a Google
       | or Facebook.
       | 
       | The crazy thing about this is that as an opportunity it probably
       | doesn't require a huge investment from them for it to become a
       | big part of their business. The pieces are all there already.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | Assuming all the companies have flaws, I think consumer brand
         | trust probably falls in this order - Apple, Amazon, Google and
         | Facebook. There is a big gap between first and second and a
         | larger gap between second and third, and finally a huge gap
         | between third and forth.
         | 
         | Amazon is already making moves in the health space so shouldn't
         | be ignored.
        
           | klelatti wrote:
           | Yes. Clearly Zuck wants to distance his wider business from
           | the damaged Facebook brand - this intrusive hardware isn't
           | from FB it's from Meta!
        
       | earljwagner wrote:
       | "I believe, if you zoom out into the future, and you look back,
       | and you ask the question, 'What was Apple's greatest contribution
       | to mankind?' it will be about health," Cook told [Mad Money's
       | Jim] Cramer." Jan 2019
       | 
       | https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/tim-cook-teases-new-apple-se...
        
         | fartcannon wrote:
         | I realise he can't actually say what their greatest
         | contribution is so I'll do it for him: walled gardens and
         | e-waste.
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | The thing that I would love Apple to make would be an Apple
       | hearing aid. I currently have the Resound Bluetooth hearing aids
       | and they're ok, but I miss the ease of use of the Beats
       | headphones I had before these (I've never been able to pair the
       | Resounds with anything but my phone). I'm imagining something
       | with the easy pairing of the Airpods with built-in find my
       | integration. Given that the Resounds sell for $2000+ per pair,1 I
       | have to imagine that this could be a great high-margin business
       | for Apple to get into.
       | 
       | [?][?][?]
       | 
       | 1. As someone with profound hearing loss, I don't expect the
       | predicted relaxation of hearing aid rules to have much impact on
       | me. As it is, I still need a doctor's approval to buy my hearing
       | aids at Costco which isn't necessary under current rules for most
       | people who need hearing aids. That said, it would be wonderful to
       | be able to replace my hearing aids for less than the cost of a
       | good laptop (and it's worth noting that insurance will pay for a
       | hearing exam sometimes but pretty much _never_ pays anything for
       | hearing aids).
        
         | concinds wrote:
         | I think (and hope) that Apple's strategy is seemlessly
         | integrating health as a feature in their current products, not
         | in additional products. AirPods 9th gen, now with a built in
         | hearing aids feature for $179. Apple Watch, now with FDA-
         | approved blood glucose monitor for whatever that thing costs.
         | VR headset with Siri and VoiceOver to describe everything in
         | front of you and help the blind live better. And I'm creeped
         | out by the trans humanist stuff, but Apple VR contact lenses
         | that somehow connect to your brain and literally give you
         | sight. Or at least Apple Contacts with built-in automatic
         | eyesight correction if you're myopic, that can be setup in
         | minutes and doesn't require a doctor's visit. Better Siri and
         | Shortcuts for seamless and productive voice interaction for
         | blind people or those without arms. This stuff would be so
         | cool.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | The thing is, that the current Airpods form factor would not
           | be socially acceptable as a hearing aid and vice versa. Right
           | now, one of the things that Airpods do, in addition to play
           | music is provide a visible signal to those around you that
           | you're listening to music. Change that to maybe they're
           | listening to music, maybe they're hard of hearing and it
           | becomes a big social problem.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | I'd add, that the fact that there's no visible indication
             | that I'm listening to music with my hearing aids is a
             | social negative in my relationship with my wife (although I
             | can see it being very helpful in the future when I'm back
             | in the office and have to be visibly present at boring
             | meetings--I'll be able to just turn off the external sounds
             | and settle in for an hour of podcasts or audio books or
             | music).
        
         | SamuelAdams wrote:
         | Please no. I am also half deaf and wear hearing aids full time.
         | If the tech companies make hearing aids they will inevitably
         | find an excuse to make "always connected" required and somehow
         | siphon data from it. I'll keep my 6k offline only hearing aids
         | for as long as they'll last.
        
       | cwp wrote:
       | One of Apple's major projects for the next decade will have to be
       | getting out of China. The antipathy between the US and China
       | isn't too bad now, but it's only going to rise as time goes on,
       | and China may have internal issues as well. Giving up the Chinese
       | market would be a hit to Apple's sales numbers, but disruption of
       | their manufacturing would be catastrophic.
       | 
       | Apple's best bet is to double-down on TSMC and Foxconn, work with
       | them to set up manufacturing elsewhere and lobby for the US to
       | continue to protect Taiwan. I think that if they continue to ship
       | updates to their existing products on schedule while they make
       | the transition, that will be a tremendous accomplishment and a
       | huge market advantage. They may find themselves competing with
       | Samsung and... um, maybe just Samsung? I don't know the Android
       | ecosystem well enough to guess.
        
         | thenthenthen wrote:
         | Well they just built a datacenter in Gui An new area (Guiyang,
         | Guizhou), just like microsoft, ibm etc. But production might
         | move indeed, but only because the wages in China are
         | increasing.
        
         | concinds wrote:
         | Manufacturing decentralisation is happening anyway, in every
         | industry, because of rising Chinese wages compared to other
         | Asian countries, I don't think that'll be a competitive
         | advantage except against poorly run companies that don't read
         | Stratfor.
        
       | 015a wrote:
       | If I were Tim, the next ten years would primarily be:
       | 
       | * Car; not happening.
       | 
       | * Connected home; this is a crowded space, but it also represents
       | a class of products that people are willing to invest in, then
       | keep for years; Apple is great at this. The most obvious product
       | would be a thermostat, then extending into cameras, sensors, and
       | door locks (imagine a camera which uses the FaceID laser array
       | tech to build a 3d representation of some interior space, for
       | more powerful object detection). The reason why I think this is
       | an "obvious" next play is because it very naturally leads to a
       | new billable service; right now, iCloud storage plans include
       | some amount of homekit secure video storage, but its easy to
       | imagine a new "Apple Home+" plan which includes that, plus other
       | stuff like 24/7 on-call security and advanced object alerting.
       | 
       | * AR; positioned primarily as a value addition to the iPhone like
       | Airpods. I think this will be less popular among older adults,
       | more among younger people. I'm only slightly interested, and I'm
       | late-20s; people younger than me will be far more interested, and
       | that does matter. For me: if they look enough like normal
       | glasses, have some kind of health angle to them (idk, EDA sensor
       | by the ear? read my brain waves?), and "built-in Airpods" via
       | bone conduction tech, I'll likely pick them up; I already wear
       | glasses, why not make them smart.
       | 
       | * Watch; continue to grow sales by investing in health-focused
       | monitoring and services. Noninvasive blood glucose would be the
       | biggest possible thing they could do here, and would massively
       | drive sales, even if it were isolated to a (even) more expensive
       | "Apple Watch Pro"; anything below $1000 would be an instant buy
       | for many diabetics, of which there are... so fucking many.
       | 
       | * General health; continuing to invest in preemptive detection
       | technology. This class of tech, mostly algorithms and new
       | sensors, is the biggest, safest, craziest moat Apple will ever
       | build for itself. Its definitely a bit of a FUD marketing angle
       | ("Apple Watch can detect if you may be developing parkinsons", ok
       | i never had that before but now I need it). Very curious to see
       | whether Apple starts locking more advanced detection/trends
       | algorithms behind a subscription service (Health+, or another),
       | similar to what Fitbit does; could see it go either way.
       | 
       | * Mac; there is _so much_ potential in converting Windows users,
       | between the value statement of M1 and the lukewarm response to
       | Windows 11 (its still ~10 /90 split!). Gaming needs to be the
       | short-term focus here. It just Makes Sense. A proton-like
       | compatibility layer seems easily within the capabilities of
       | Apple's engineering team. Additionally, Apple should work with
       | just a couple major developers to bring support to a few keystone
       | titles. Combined with a large marketing push (its what Apple does
       | best) and the continued graphics card shortage (no end in sight
       | yet), this would be a relatively small investment to grow Mac
       | marketshare by single or even double digit percentages. The value
       | statement for developers is way too good, they just need a push;
       | release on Mac, gain near-zero-configuration access to iOS,
       | iPadOS, and Apple TV devices if it makes sense for your game.
       | 
       | * Fintech: An Apple checking account is inevitable I think
       | (imagine Apple Cash, with a debit card and direct deposit, that's
       | all it takes, even a competitive interest rate isn't necessary
       | anymore). This will be an obscene source of liquidity for the
       | company, as an entire generation of affluent young customers
       | eschew traditional antiquated banking services. I don't believe
       | we'll see them touch cryptocurrency in the next ten years; as
       | another said in this thread, Apple is the Disney of computing.
       | Crypto is still too "weird" for them, even looking beyond the
       | environmental implications.
       | 
       | * VR; I'm much less certain Apple will ever get into VR, but I
       | think the argument is stronger than many people admit. The
       | technology is here already, unlike AR which still feels like
       | people don't know what it is. They have an extremely powerful SoC
       | which can fit inside a Quest-like AIO (this is the current
       | challenge Valve is facing competing with Oculus, but they'll get
       | there). Most critically: the only people who believe "VR is for
       | gaming" don't have a VR headset; VR's strongest use-case, bar
       | none, is exercise-gaming (this is why Oculus recently acquired
       | Supernatural and Beat Games). That's why I think it makes sense
       | for Apple; its a nexus of two domains they're very strong in
       | today, and have expressed desire for growth.
       | 
       | In short, I don't believe there will be a "next killer product"
       | for Apple, or any company. The low hanging fruit has been picked,
       | and the next phase of computing (more accurately, the one we're
       | in right now) is the "last 10% is 90% of the effort" work in
       | making everything we already have do more, better.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | > Mac; there is so much potential in converting Windows users
         | 
         | I'm skeptical about the long-term value here. By virtue of the
         | fact that phones are much more locked down, customer support
         | issues are relatively straightforward.
         | 
         | Mac users have vastly more ways to shoot themselves in the
         | foot, so the more Mac users Apple has, the more support
         | infrastructure they require. Genius Bars are already (or, at
         | least, were pre-pandemic) overwhelmed.
        
       | boringg wrote:
       | So who would buy apple stock at current prices and hold for the
       | next ten years?
       | 
       | Outside of Apple as a foundational company - current valuations,
       | would anyone buy and hold?
        
         | lindig wrote:
         | The valuation of Apple on a P/E basis is attractive and
         | constant stock buybacks make it a safe bet. At the current
         | scale you can't expect startup-level growth but it is still
         | attractive as a stock.
         | 
         | Likewise, look at the valuation per customer; it is around
         | $1500, which is attractive, too.
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | Anyone in it for dividends
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | With a dividend yield of 0.59%, one would be better off
           | buying bonds. AAPL's dividend, much like MSFT's before it,
           | was to shut up those shareholders whining about how much cash
           | the company holds. "You want a dividend? Fine, here's 22
           | cents/share on a $150 stock; don't spend it all in one
           | place."
           | 
           | But dividends are taxable when paid. Share buybacks aren't,
           | it's just capital appreciation that's taxed when sold. So
           | nobody's in it for the dividends to begin with.
        
       | albatrosstrophy wrote:
       | If Apple keeps producing devices that dominate others (long
       | battery life and actually functional ports in MacBook are two
       | recent examples) then they're good in the near future. But in the
       | long run, is Apple going into healthcare or am I reading too much
       | into the piece?
        
         | stephenr wrote:
         | Can you define what you mean by "actually functional ports"?
         | Are you referring to the removal of a Thunderbolt port, and the
         | addition of a HDMI 2.0 port and SDXC slot?
         | 
         | Assuming yes (I'm not sure what else you would be referring to
         | that is a 'recent example'), can you explain to me how you
         | consider a port that can connect to practically any peripheral
         | you can imagine at speeds unmatched by any contemporary
         | alternatives, not to be "functional", while you also consider a
         | single-use video port, and a single-use card reader port, both
         | using versions from close to a decade ago, to be "functional"?
         | 
         | To be clear, its your choice of wording that I'm questioning
         | here.
         | 
         | If you'd said _convenient_ , or more accurately _convenient for
         | some /many_, I'd still disagree that the benefit of the
         | convenience is worth the cost of losing flexibility, but I'd
         | agree that the port(s) do offer more convenience for some
         | people/workflows.
         | 
         | But you didn't say that, you said "functional".
         | 
         | I currently use all four TB3 ports on either a 2018 Mac Mini or
         | 2018 MBP15, (without using one dedicated to power); I already
         | run two 4K displays from a single TB3 port (either via the eGPU
         | on the mini, or via a DualDP adapter on the MBP). Only one TB3
         | device I use is daisy-chainable (i.e. has a downstream TB3
         | port), and it is already daisy-chained to something else.
         | 
         | So if I were to update my portable/spare machine to a 'current'
         | model, yes I'd get a nice CPU/GPU perf boost, and the option
         | for a lot more memory, which is great. But I literally don't
         | have enough ports any more, and suddenly I have two ports that
         | are not usable, _for me_.
         | 
         | I wouldn't quite call them "non functional" because they do
         | function, I just dont have a use for that function, and because
         | they're single-use ports (and OLD single use ports at that)
         | they're not adaptable to anything I _do_ need to use.
        
           | strogonoff wrote:
           | Am I reading it correctly that USB-C ports on new M1 Macs are
           | not TB? That comes as a big surprise to me.
        
             | stephenr wrote:
             | .. for the _most part_ they are still Thunderbolt.
             | 
             | The original M1 Macs (laptops + mini) have 2
             | Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports.
             | 
             | The M1 iMac also has two Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports, but
             | _also_ some models have an additional two USB3.x USB-C
             | ports.
             | 
             | The M1Pro/Max MBP's just released have three Thunderbolt
             | 4/USB4 ports.
             | 
             | I'm not sure if my post is what confused you, but when I
             | said "removed TB port" I was referring to the drop from
             | four TB3 ports for the last five years, to three TB4 ports
             | on the new models.
        
               | strogonoff wrote:
               | Ah, I might have not read carefully.
               | 
               | The extra ports and slots I personally would likely never
               | use (if I were to get the new MBP), but then I rarely if
               | ever used all four USB-C ports either.
        
               | breakfastduck wrote:
               | They've added a separate power input through magsafe
               | though. So if like most users the device is plugged in
               | essentially permanently, there's no port lost because
               | only 3 were ever available anyway.
        
               | stephenr wrote:
               | I have to assume the people who make this comment have
               | never used TB3 devices.
               | 
               | Most TB3 monitors, docks, drive bays, eGPUs etc provide
               | power to the laptop. So while some people maybe don't
               | make use of that capability, it's completely inaccurate
               | to say "there's no port loss". I'd wager that those of us
               | using all four ports already are predominantly using all
               | four for data or video in some way, with one also
               | providing power, rather than one dedicated to power and
               | only three for data/video.
        
               | breakfastduck wrote:
               | Point taken but ignorant first line.
               | 
               | I'd say this is the minority, for sure. You seem to think
               | the other way around (everyone using a power delivery
               | dock), but that's fine.
        
               | stephenr wrote:
               | No, not necessarily a PD 'dock'. A goodly number of TB3
               | devices provide power. If it's got it's own AC power it
               | generally also provides power back to the host machine.
        
               | itsananderson wrote:
               | I used power delivery from my Dell monitor for the last
               | year, but occasionally under heavy workloads it couldn't
               | keep up and my battery would slowly drain. I may have had
               | something misconfigured, but if so I never figured out
               | what it was. Between Yubikey, Ethernet, and two external
               | monitors, I didn't have much choice.
               | 
               | I finally gave up and bought a Thunderbolt dock that
               | actually delivers enough power while also providing
               | expanded port capabilities.
        
               | whywhywhywhy wrote:
               | >Most TB3 monitors .... provide power to the laptop
               | 
               | In the 4-5 years I've been using this laptop in many
               | offices I've yet to encounter a single monitor that
               | delivers on this promise and I think the entire team in
               | my company apart from my uses janky USB-C to HDMI
               | dongles. I've used USB-C to display port in the hopes of
               | reducing jankiness.
               | 
               | The USB-C one cable for monitor/power (that works
               | consistently) dream never materialized, let it go Apple
               | has.
        
               | SahAssar wrote:
               | I'm suprised to hear this since that's how I've been
               | using my laptop (XPS running linux) with multiple
               | monitors for the past 3ish years. I had issues with one
               | monitor though, but I strongly suspect that is just a
               | lemon since the same cable/computer combo works fine with
               | other monitors of the same model and manufacturing year.
               | 
               | I expect to be able to use one cable for display, power
               | and peripherals these days.
        
           | wingerlang wrote:
           | > convenient for some/many
           | 
           | I agree, I haven't used a SD card in over a decade and my
           | HDMI cable is permanently attached to a dongle I can use on
           | any side of my macbook. I really would love it if they had
           | the ports as optional.
        
           | matwood wrote:
           | You're saying unpopular things here, but I agree! If they
           | added the other ports in addition to keeping 4 tb4 ports,
           | then fine. But we lost a super flexible port for old versions
           | of single use ports.
           | 
           | Magsafe was a big deal when I had to use my computer tethered
           | to power all the time. With the m1, it's just not as critical
           | as it was. It's nice, but better would have been to
           | incorporate the latest PD spec for faster charging.
           | 
           | Is the sdcard even 'pro' anymore? Where's cfexpress? Pros
           | already have a bunch of sdcard readers that are likely faster
           | than what's in the machine.
           | 
           | HDMI is probably the most useful here, but are there still
           | places where people present that haven't permanently attached
           | a usbc connector (same places still using dvi hah)? I haven't
           | needed HDMI in years at this point.
           | 
           | Don't get me wrong, ports are fine. But, I'd like them to use
           | the latest versions _and_ not lose one of the tb4 ports.
        
             | stephenr wrote:
             | Yup.
             | 
             | I generally like Apple products, but this feels like a step
             | back towards limiting 'solutions' when the industry is
             | finally catching up with proprietary 'enhancements'.
             | 
             | USB-C magnetic break-away cables are absolutely a thing
             | that exist. Zero question Apple _could_ have shipped a
             | solution using this, if they wanted.
             | 
             | Fast Charge over USB-PD was probably never going to make it
             | in a 2021 product (PD 3.1 was only 'released' in May or
             | something), but "we just added the most efficient processor
             | in years" seems like a weird time to also say "oh and also
             | you can charge it up real quick".
             | 
             | I am not a photographer, by any means, but my _impression_
             | is that a lot of weekend-warrior /"prosumer" types use
             | cameras with SD cards still. Whether because the camera
             | only supports SD or because SD is cheaper than the 'high
             | end' cards.. most online discussions I see about this will
             | routinely have people who _do_ claim to be professional
             | photographers, stating that SD cards are generally not used
             | - they 're on high end cameras as a backup, and that they
             | just use a fast external card reader anyway.
             | 
             | I can see an argument that HDMI is more convenient if
             | you're going into a meeting room... but in that scenario
             | (a) you're just assuming they have HDMI, and not any of the
             | other various video ports a projector might have, and (b)
             | wouldn't the MacBook Air be a better choice then? I
             | struggle to see the overlap between "Needs the absolute
             | fastest CPU, GPU and most memory" and "needs a laptop
             | ideally suited for meeting rooms".
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | The cynic in me says that Apple couldn't figure out how
               | to get 4 tb4 ports on an M1 so threw some single use
               | ports in as a stop gap. I just feel like if they had
               | really sat down and designed the computer around adding
               | these ports back, the latest version of HDMI would have
               | been used.
               | 
               | As for the SD cards, I have mirrorless and dslrs that use
               | sd cards, and don't really care about sd in the machine
               | or not. I think many people who are clamoring for an
               | sdcard want to use it as quasi permanent extra storage.
               | /shrug
        
               | stephenr wrote:
               | I tend to agree with you that the HDMI port is actually a
               | 'stop gap' - TB4 mandates 32Gbit - so every _port_
               | requires the equivalent of a 4x PCIe3 link, (this is what
               | the previous models used to drive _two_ ports).
               | 
               | So 4 TB4 ports would mean 16 PCIe3 lanes (I can't find if
               | the M1 derivatives are v3 or v4 - if they're v4 I believe
               | they'd require half the lanes per port as the lanes are
               | double the speed), which maybe is more than they wanted
               | to allocate.
               | 
               | The only way I can see this makes sense in anyway, that
               | isn't just "Apple cheaped out on the bandwidth" is that
               | they were caught off guard by Intel's TB4 (which sets the
               | minimum bandwidth requirement) announcement last January,
               | just 6 months before they announced they were
               | transitioning off Intel. They no doubt had the CPU
               | designs at least somewhat done already, so maybe they'd
               | been planning for TB3 ports - but even in that scenario,
               | it's a cop out if their brand spanking new CPU designed
               | in 2021 can't support more external I/O than it's
               | predecessor from half a decade earlier.
               | 
               | I've seen people saying the SD card is "a great option
               | for a storage upgrade".. I guess it's an _option_ but I
               | wouldn 't call it great, given the speed difference
               | compared to a modern NVMe (either the built in drive or
               | an external one).
        
             | easton wrote:
             | The Verge handed the new 16" MBPs (the to-the-gills one) to
             | one of their editors for her workflow, and she said she got
             | about 4 hours on a charge. They believed it was a
             | combination of Rosetta apps (Adobe still isn't done
             | transitioning) and the gigantic GPU in the M1 Max.
             | 
             | For a full day I'd probably leave it plugged in.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | > Apple going into healthcare or am I reading too much into the
         | piece?
         | 
         | Isn't Apple already into "Consumer Healthcare" with iWatch, ECG
         | and other monitoring stuff built into iPhones (headphone
         | volume, logging mindful minutes, etc.)?
         | 
         | They're slowly building Health and their devices into a very
         | capable yet understated health tracking and improving devices.
        
       | zanethomas wrote:
       | It might be the case, given first the gradual lockdown of the
       | operating system and now proprietary processors, that Apple's
       | real growth will come from forcing users of their computers to
       | obtain _all_ software from the app store.
        
       | gfodor wrote:
       | Not one comment mentioning the thing Apple has an army working
       | on: VR.
        
         | IOT_Apprentice wrote:
         | Probably because VR in its current implementation sucks. Just
         | as 3D for movies sucks. We'll have to see if Apple can solve
         | that or if they are looking more at immersive AR.
        
           | gfodor wrote:
           | Same thing. It will be passthrough AR like Facebook's new
           | headset next year.
           | 
           | This is a useful thing to grok: https://mobile.twitter.com/Gr
           | egMadison/status/14539110109144...
        
       | ericmay wrote:
       | " _Apple is a high margin company and the car business yields low
       | margins._ "
       | 
       | And now what if Apple comes in and it _doesn 't_ anymore? Tesla
       | appears to have 30% or so margins on cars [1]. Why couldn't Apple
       | make that higher, or increase margin by bundling different types
       | of subscriptions or integrations with other Apple products?
       | 
       | Enjoyed the article though.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gross-margin-wiggle-room-
       | ev-...
        
         | SirHound wrote:
         | Yep if you looked at the android smartphone market you'd draw
         | the same conclusion
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | Yes and that is why I was never bought the low margin
           | argument for Apple not doing TV. Especially when Android
           | Smartphone for a period of time were _negative_ margin.
           | 
           | That said I still dont think Apple should make a car. But it
           | seems all is too late.
        
         | klelatti wrote:
         | Yes.
         | 
         | Those low margins reflect commoditisation of large majority of
         | cars. In the era when cars are computers on wheels it should be
         | easier to avoid this.
         | 
         | In particular Apple can distinguish itself from others through
         | high degree of integration with other Apple products.
        
         | Factorium wrote:
         | Last-generation automakers sold expensive, complex ICE vehicles
         | and made money back on parts and servicing.
         | 
         | EVs are much cheaper and simpler to manufacture and last
         | basically forever.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | _> EVs [...] last basically forever. _
           | 
           | That's not what I heard about their batteries, which need
           | replacing way more often than a regular ICE setup (i.e. every
           | small-single-digit years vs every 15 years or so).
           | 
           | Also, it's true that electric engines see less stress, but a
           | lot of the rest of the car is still a car.
        
             | Factorium wrote:
             | Tesla batteries are only losing 10% of capacity after
             | 200,000 miles:
             | 
             | https://electrek.co/2021/08/12/tesla-claims-battery-packs-
             | lo...
        
       | anonymouse008 wrote:
       | From the outside looking in, the one who appears to have the
       | ability to reach across organization and be the natural CEO looks
       | like Craig Federighi.
       | 
       | Would love to hear from boots on the ground if this aligns with
       | the actual experience.
        
         | fbanon wrote:
         | Apple needs a female CEO.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | Why does a particular gender matter?
        
           | flenserboy wrote:
           | Why? And focus on the _needs_ part -- what _need_ does _a_ ,
           | and specifically _this_ company, meet by choosing someone
           | based on something other than talent and /or demonstrated
           | competence?
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | I mean I dont see how it is anyone else. Not because I support
         | or like Craig, ( I wish Scott Forstall was still at Apple ) but
         | no one in the Apple leadership page fits the bill with age and
         | experience. Eddy Cue, Luca Maestri, Jeff Williams, Greg
         | Joswiak, are all 58. And somehow Phill Schiller "promoted" to
         | Apple Fellow when he was 60. The average Fortune 500 CEO age is
         | 57.
         | 
         | It is the reason why Apple had lots of new promotion in their
         | past 3 years. I think the exec knows.
         | 
         | At the same time I think the regulation and challenges are
         | something Tim Cook doesn't want to leave it behind for his
         | successor.
        
           | anonymouse008 wrote:
           | Honestly the regulation and legal challenges are cakewalks
           | for the 'Apple Apple' -- however, for the Apple that
           | generates cashflows to service stock buyback debt, you're
           | correct, quite challenging.
           | 
           | I like to think of this as Steve checking in with Tim's
           | mother about how much he works -- i.e. Tim will arrive at the
           | most 'correct' answer, but at a long term cost... these
           | financial buy backs are technically brilliant, but how much
           | organizational fatigue is created focusing on these
           | initiatives?
           | 
           | [Edit] To finish the thought: these buybacks create an
           | organization that makes Apple+ and services their primary
           | initiatives, rather than focusing on documentation, and
           | focusing on the circle of life of their current offerings
           | (killing some products in favor of focus in others, moving
           | the personal computing industry into the next great creation
           | generation).
        
             | klelatti wrote:
             | Not sure I fully understand what you're saying here but the
             | buybacks are simple to execute.
             | 
             | If actually argue they are brilliant by Tim Cook - if all
             | that cash was still on the balance sheet they would end up
             | using it on bad M&A etc. This way they stay focused.
        
               | anonymouse008 wrote:
               | > If actually argue they are brilliant by Tim Cook - if
               | all that cash was still on the balance sheet they would
               | end up using it on bad M&A etc.
               | 
               | Dividends vs. Buybacks are two totally different types of
               | financial engineering.
               | 
               | The first accretes in a well-understood, and manageable
               | way, while the second nebulously meddles in a multi-
               | factor way, one by creating a float constraint (these
               | shares are usually treasuried on the company balance
               | sheet), and two a demand inflator through the company
               | coffers entering the market chatter. Both dividends and
               | buybacks are monsters that require regular feeding to
               | keep tame; however, the buyback monster is arguably way
               | more frightening if it becomes angry in the current hedge
               | (option) everything world, compounded by reducing float.
               | 
               | That's just the first decision. The second decision to
               | fund (and accelerate) the buyback process through debt is
               | again financially brilliant, but at the levels Apple used
               | to finance the buybacks (and has continued the process) -
               | is confusing to a long term strategy.
               | 
               | What's the plan? How does hitting the debt-buyback wheel
               | affect one's demeanor? Just keep securizsiting on the
               | cash cows? When picking New Product A with 2 year useful
               | life, one time revenue injection vs. a monthly fee
               | service that is probably already tackled by our users
               | (developers) quite well, which do we bias towards? What
               | about finally loving up on PWAs?
               | 
               | What happens when people look at our 2.5trn market cap,
               | fueled in a large way by these buybacks, and think why
               | not spread that wealth around? It invites every armchair
               | quarterback (hello, mirror) to tell you how to run the
               | company's very visible success... it's operationally
               | brilliant, but not all that aware of the next generation
               | of customers and leaders.
               | 
               | If this sounds interesting, I'll fully flesh out a longer
               | form explanation at some point. Tying this back to the
               | point, the anti-trust cases are the most important
               | decision we will make as a species for the next 100
               | years. To my novice mind, these are simply avoided (and
               | corrected) by understanding the current motivations of
               | Apple and what should really change... i.e. 'why do we
               | really need to do these buybacks? Is this really the best
               | stewardship to our long term business success (helping
               | people make the best stuff, period.)?' The upcoming
               | regulatory challenges will directly tell the solution
               | makers, most of us on HN, how and where to participate,
               | and if we must reinvent the wheel because the first one
               | lost its way a bit and became too golden, that's a sad
               | loss.
        
             | concinds wrote:
             | Apple buys their own shares back because they believe
             | they're undervalued, fundamentally. So it's a bargain.
             | There's also only so many profitable R&D projects they can
             | invest in, and the rest of the money can be better
             | allocated by the market. This is all finance 101 that Tim
             | Cook is familiar with.
             | 
             | Stock buybacks are a stupid idea for airlines (high fixed
             | costs, heavily economy-dependent cash flow), but a
             | fantastic idea for Apple.
        
               | klelatti wrote:
               | That's not quite right - they don't have to believe that
               | they're undervalued rather that they are at least fairly
               | valued.
               | 
               | Share buybacks aren't a stupid idea for Airlines either.
               | If they have too much cash on the balance sheet better to
               | return cash to shareholders as a one off in a tax
               | efficient way rather than pay a regular dividend that
               | they have to cut when the economy turns down.
        
         | xvector wrote:
         | Craig is charismatic but I don't know if he has the skills
         | needed for CEO. It definitely looks like Apple is positioning
         | him as the next one though.
        
       | iamgopal wrote:
       | How Apple going to leverage their hardware dominance is the key,
       | I think they are going to start search engine, social network,
       | online store, health care and insurance products etc. All things
       | that are going to touch end users.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | You forgot Apple Car.
        
           | iamgopal wrote:
           | All of these thing will not be as a current form, like apple
           | car will be build, maintained and service by BMW with google
           | paying them tons of bucks to use their self driving
           | technology etc. Apple just want front face, not the tech
           | itself.
        
         | mupuff1234 wrote:
         | I imagine they'd prefer to avoid the realm of uncurated user
         | content - too much risk and hassle, and doesn't really suit
         | their monitization strategy.
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | They tried a social network a few times and got nowhere, they
         | might try again but I'd grant a low chance of success. iMessage
         | is close enough.
         | 
         | I'm going against collective wisdom on this, but I don't see
         | them launching a user facing search engine. The only way to
         | monetise that is ads, and that puts them directly at odds with
         | their privacy focus.
         | 
         | The way things are now Apple gets mucho $billions from Google
         | to make their search the default, they get to mess with Google
         | over privacy, and Google gets all the heat. Win, win, win.
        
           | SirHound wrote:
           | If it was good, I'd pay for a quality search engine. iCloud+?
        
         | zimbatm wrote:
         | Siri is already competing with Google search. Tackling it like
         | that is much better than just re-inventing the same thing.
        
       | mbjdesign wrote:
       | There's obviously no certainties - and I'm not a betting man -
       | but I think this author is on to something.
       | 
       | Healthcare fits the brief of a "painful, expensive problem where
       | technology can help". That's the fundamental criteria for any
       | software development, and in this case requires good integration
       | with hardware. That kind of problem plays to Apple's strengths.
       | 
       | Coupled with their long-standing and (apparent) sincere interest
       | in customer's health and well-being and this seems a safe bet.
        
         | camillomiller wrote:
         | Just to clarify, "this author" is Jean-Louis Gassee of Be and
         | BeOS fame.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | and your point is?
        
             | breakfastduck wrote:
             | That this article is written by someone with serious
             | credentials and not just some random tech journalist?
        
           | simongray wrote:
           | And Apple fame in the 1980s. He had quite a prominent role.
        
         | boldslogan wrote:
         | a prior example is how iphone built in the flashlight app...now
         | the apple watch built in a period female tracker (which have
         | multiple apps built by companies worth a couple hundred M all
         | together)...I can't see how this fails since theyve released
         | oxygen monitor in the last watch and better heart rate
         | monitoring...
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | There's a problem with non-invasive glucose monitoring and Type 2
       | diabetes.
       | 
       | There's very limited evidence that providing a Type 2 diabetic
       | with more information about their blood glucose level does
       | anything at all.
       | 
       | A full-scale change in approach to food, exercise, etc. is what
       | is needed, not easier access to a number on a smart watch.
       | 
       | https://www.aafp.org/afp/2020/0601/p646.html
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | Bluntly; it doesn't matter.
         | 
         | Apple Watch providing human beings with more information about
         | how much physical activity they're getting each day may not
         | actually substantively impact exercise, on the long run, for
         | most users. I don't have the data to prove this, but I'd
         | believe it. Its a tool which people who are already active
         | love, and it probably fools inactive people into closing their
         | rings for a few weeks after buying it, but then everyone
         | regresses to the norm; it always takes more effort than just
         | spending a few hundred bucks to positively change your life.
         | 
         | That doesn't mean people don't buy it for the Hope. I'll never
         | forget a tagline Apple used to sell a previous version of the
         | Apple Watch, one of their best yet: Anything You Can Do, You
         | Can Do Better.
         | 
         | The biggest advantage to non-invasive glucose monitoring isn't
         | the glucose monitoring part; its the non-invasive part.
         | Diabetics stab themselves every day to draw blood and get these
         | numbers. Noninvasive monitoring is a big win. It doesn't really
         | help diabetics improve their lot in life, from a disease
         | management angle; what it does do is immediately improve their
         | day-to-day life.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | Apple has already launched apps and services to improve
         | exercise using their watch (complete your circles etc).
         | 
         | A blood glucose monitor on the watch would likely not just
         | print a number, it would be integrated with the existing
         | exercise programs. Adding an option to track food would not be
         | hard.
         | 
         | In other words the headline would likely not be "Apple adds
         | glucose sensor," it would be "Apple launches comprehensive
         | diabetes management service" likely in partnership with some
         | academic or healthcare name you've heard of.
         | 
         | Imagine if people could buy an Apple Watch and online service
         | with their health insurance, or Medicare.
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | > Adding an option to track food would not be hard.
           | 
           | This would actually be very hard to do accurately!
           | 
           | > online service
           | 
           | An online service isn't what is needed for the vast majority
           | of people who live with diabetes to improve their management
           | of the disease. It's either: access to more affordable
           | medication or the desire to manage the disease more
           | effectively.
           | 
           | Yes, Apple entering the space would help the subset of people
           | who are motivated to manage their diabetes (I am one of them,
           | albeit a Type 1). But it would do very little for the overall
           | population of people with diabetes.
        
             | jonfw wrote:
             | Is the subset of people who are motivated to manage their
             | diabetes static?
             | 
             | There are probably ways to increase that number. Making it
             | more convenient, more social, and applying game theory (the
             | same thing fitness trackers can do for excercise) can get
             | more people to care
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | Quite a large proportion of people with type 2 diabetes don't
         | know they have it. Just giving an advanced warning could make a
         | huge difference.
        
       | flyinglizard wrote:
       | Apple is only capped by its product offering, not consumer spend.
       | Apple customers want to pay more for Apple products. Heck _I_
       | want to spend more on Apple products because they are fun to me
       | and I 'm excited about the things they do. So one way to go at it
       | is taking more money per product, like more expensive iPhones,
       | but that has some practical limits.
       | 
       | A much better thing is to expand the range of products produced
       | by Apple into new and exciting categories. An average Apple
       | customer doesn't spend more than $1500 a year on Apple products
       | (an average between changing their iPhone, iPad and Macbook every
       | 2-3 years). But Apple customers have a ton of discretionary
       | income (compared to others), so there's much more potential, and
       | it's only held back by what Apple is putting on display.
       | 
       | So the Apple Watch came in and pushed that up a bit, I expect an
       | Apple glasses to take this even further. What about a 80" Apple
       | screen for the living room, instead of half assed solutions like
       | Apple TV or smart TVs from other manufacturers which force ads on
       | you? The market is ripe, if they can innovate.
       | 
       | Between their investment into fundamental technologies (silicon),
       | unparalleled vertical integration, strong leadership and mastery
       | of supply chain even at times like this, I'm very bullish on the
       | company in the long run.
        
         | jiggawatts wrote:
         | There were rumours about a HomePod/TV hybrid replacement in a
         | soundbar form factor. I would buy one.
         | 
         | There's talk of an Apple Car, all electric of course. Possibly
         | in partnership with Toyota. I would buy one.
         | 
         | Etc...
        
       | greggman3 wrote:
       | Their comments on AR seem pretty far off. "REALLY AR" has plenty
       | of uses that every day people would love IMO. This to me is the
       | same as no one getting PDAs from Newton->Palm-Pilot->Windows
       | CE->iPhone. Once it became truly usable everyone finally caught
       | up with the geeks that got it from the beginning.
       | 
       | As others have pointed out, "real" AR, if nothing else, would
       | give you virtual displays. That's more than just not needing a
       | monitor for your laptop. It also means not needing a display for
       | your phone. The typical, turn your wrist, and a display shows up
       | 
       | And, at the point that everyone is using real full AR there's no
       | need for TVs anymore. In the same way much of the society is
       | going cashless and practically requiring a smartphone (1), an AR
       | world with as much penetration as smartphones today would easily
       | get rid of lots of things. Why cover a room in physical nicknacks
       | and art when it can all be virtual.
       | 
       | The anime, Psycho Pass, showed some ideas on the topics. People
       | changing the style of their bedrooms from modern to antique.
       | Their actual furniture was generic but via AR (or Holograms)
       | they'd select what they wanted the everything to appear like.
       | Same with clothing. Monuments and statues in the city were also
       | just projections.
       | 
       | (1) many restaurants now only have QR codes for menus. Don't have
       | a phone, can't read the menu. I've been to one that you couldn't
       | order unless you had a phone. Told them I didn't want to do that.
       | They said I'd have to sit at the bar instead of a table if I
       | wanted to order+pay not via the phone. Yea, I hate it but I'm
       | fighting the tide.
        
       | thom wrote:
       | I'd be surprised if Apple didn't move further into fintech than
       | Apple Pay and Apple Card. Buy one of the online banks, one of the
       | instalment payment providers etc, offer finance solutions that
       | ever so slightly shorten upgrade cycles on the hardware side.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | I can imagine them partnering with a cryptocurrency exchange to
         | provide cryptocurrency wallet support in Apple Wallet.
        
           | notafraudster wrote:
           | I'm not saying it's impossible, but Apple is a company that
           | cares a great deal about the environmental valence of their
           | products. Obviously CSR is a bit of a shell game no matter
           | who does it, but Apple seems to take it seriously, and they
           | seem to have made pretty real strides in reducing both
           | operations and manufacturing footprint. Moreover, as compared
           | to many electronic manufacturers, they seem more willing in
           | general to actually impose environmental responsibilities on
           | suppliers, and subcontractors, and further downstream. One
           | example of this is that they build or buy huge amounts of
           | renewable power, and they work with suppliers who don't use
           | renewable power to switch.
           | 
           | Without getting into the debate about the true environmental
           | impact of cryptocurrency, we can all agree that
           | cryptocurrency has an external appearance of being
           | environmentally bad. Maybe that's unfair, maybe it's not. But
           | if Apple announces meaningful cryptocurrency integration, it
           | is going to expose them to that debate in a way that
           | superficially will seem to cut against their values.
           | 
           | As a result, I do not expect them to do so. That's not to say
           | they'll block cryptocurrency efforts by third parties, just
           | that I do not think they're ever going to do anything
           | themselves or trumpet those kinds of connections.
           | 
           | Small disclosure note: I worked in an academic lab where
           | coworkers, one of whom later a coauthor of mine in an
           | unrelated product, were hired by Apple to do some work on
           | conflict minerals, mineral sourcing in their supply chain,
           | and Dodd-Frank's conflict mineral oversight provisions. I was
           | not involved in the project personally and it ended several
           | years ago, but obviously it gave me a bit of exposure to
           | Apple's efforts that no doubt shapes my perception here.
        
             | rvz wrote:
             | > we can all agree that cryptocurrency has an external
             | appearance of being environmentally bad.
             | 
             | But ARE _all cryptocurrencies_ environmentally bad? Do you
             | have evidence for both claims?
        
               | notafraudster wrote:
               | I had hoped that putting a part in my post saying that I
               | was talking about optics -- not the underlying truth --
               | would have dissuaded people from trying to engage me on
               | the truth of the claim. I apologize only for my naivety
               | in that respect.
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | I have already acknowledged that but additionally
               | requested on your side for such evidence to support your
               | claim even if assumptions are involved. It still requires
               | sources regardless, otherwise it is baseless.
               | 
               | Or is it that you don't have any evidence to your own
               | assumptions and on top of the second claim I mentioned?
        
               | whynaut wrote:
               | It doesn't seem like you're acknowledging the fact that
               | the claim you're challenging was never actually made
        
               | notafraudster wrote:
               | I honestly can't follow what you're asking for here. I
               | literally don't understand what it is you think I said,
               | or what you're asking me to support or provide evidence
               | for.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I think you are disingenuously being asked to provide a
               | source for an observation that you made informally (that
               | cryptocurrency's environmental impact is becoming a well
               | known problem). However, out of annoyance I went and
               | found a source that you can use if you'd like.
               | 
               | An Index of Cryptocurrency Environmental Attention
               | (ICEA), (Yizhi Wang, Brian M. Lucey, Samuel Vigne, Larisa
               | Yarovaya)
               | 
               | It has the benefit of being fairly technical, so I guess
               | the sort of person who make an 'argument' by lazily and
               | pedantically demanding sources for common sense
               | statements won't actually want to put in the work of
               | reading it.
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | > I think you are disingenuously being asked to provide a
               | source for an observation that you made informally
               | 
               | So one thinks it is safe to blanket label
               | 'cryptocurrencies' meaning 'all of them' being harmful to
               | the environment due to a basic and very lazy
               | 'observation'. Unfortunately that was left
               | unsubstantiated.
               | 
               | > However, out of annoyance I went and found a source
               | that you can use if you'd like.
               | 
               | I see. So it is 'annoying' to substantiate your own
               | comments? I don't want to repeat the same line that
               | mentions this in the HN guidelines and it doesn't matter
               | if it is informal or not.
               | 
               | My only request was for a source to this. The commenter
               | knew that the burden of proof was on them to substantiate
               | their assumption and they knew could not provide one or
               | answer the other question.
               | 
               | I accept the source given here which answers the
               | 'observation' claim, it doesn't however, answer if it is
               | the case for every single cryptocurrency since the paper
               | focuses on only two specific ones instead of the rest of
               | them.
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | This is you from [0]:                  > ...we can all
               | agree that cryptocurrency has an external appearance of
               | being environmentally bad.
               | 
               | From: [1]                 Comments should get more
               | thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets
               | more divisive.
               | 
               | Maybe I assumed you read this guideline, but clearly it
               | seems that you did not read it, given that your own
               | assumption lacks substance. Which is why I ask again:
               | 
               | Do you have evidence to your own assumption that
               | cryptocurrencies have the perception or appearance of
               | being bad for the environment? On top of that, where is
               | the evidence that support the case that ALL
               | cryptocurrencies are bad for the environment?
               | 
               | The fact that you are actively dodging these questions
               | leads me to think that you have no evidence in general to
               | support your entire sentence in [0] given that it has
               | ZERO sources which means it is absolutely baseless.
               | 
               | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29065284
               | 
               | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I think your request for sources is quite unreasonable --
               | clearly the original comment was based on general
               | informal observations and the fact that the environmental
               | impact frequently shows up in news articles. However, I
               | did find a paper you can look up:
               | 
               | An Index of Cryptocurrency Environmental Attention
               | (ICEA), (Yizhi Wang, Brian M. Lucey, Samuel Vigne, Larisa
               | Yarovaya).
               | 
               | It is pretty dense, but here's the first paragraph of
               | their conclusion:
               | 
               | "We have developed a new measure of attention to
               | sustainability concerns of cryptocurrency markets'
               | growth. An Index of Cryptocurrency Environmental
               | Attention (ICEA) has been constructed using 778.2 million
               | news stories from the Lexis Nexis database. The index
               | demonstrates significant increases in attention to
               | cryptocurrency environmental impacts displayed via both
               | traditional and social media channels from 2014 to 2021.
               | Our findings suggest that the public is growing more
               | concerned with energy consumption of these innovative
               | asset."
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | > I think your request for sources is quite unreasonable
               | 
               | So the HN guidelines [0] for keeping the discussion
               | substantive is somewhat _' unreasonable'_ when talking
               | about something controversial like cryptocurrencies which
               | even the commenter knew their long reply was unfounded?
               | [1]
               | 
               | I am simply keeping the discussion substantiative.
               | 
               | As for the source you provided, it's now substantiates
               | the observation claim I am asking for. It answers the
               | first request for evidence but not the second one and
               | this paper primarily focuses on only two PoW
               | cryptocurrencies but doesn't target 'all' of the others
               | in general which would which make case if every single
               | cryptocurrency have the same energy inefficiencies as the
               | two cryptocurrencies mentioned in the article, which is
               | what I am also looking for.
               | 
               | One commenter gave an alternative cryptocurrency [2] that
               | wasn't mentioned in the paper which aims to be energy
               | efficient and addresses the other commenter's response
               | even when they failed to answer my question by replying
               | with another question. [3].
               | 
               | Given that one mention of the existence of an energy
               | efficient cryptocurrency, what evidence exists that 'all
               | of them' are harmful to the environment?
               | 
               | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
               | 
               | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29065284
               | 
               | [2] https://assets.website-
               | files.com/5d80307810123f5ffbb34d6e/60...
               | 
               | [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29065963
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | Can you name any one that isn't? Even "different" ones
               | like Chia that don't use proof of work have bad
               | externalities ( it eats hard drives).
               | 
               | If one day Ethereum moves to proof of stake, that might
               | change, but as of today there isn't a single one that's
               | even remotely popular which doesn't do serious
               | environmental damage.
        
               | gfodor wrote:
               | Avalanche
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | Normally, the burden of proof is on whoever made the
               | original claim [0] to substantiate it with credible links
               | or evidence; you can do it for them if you want.
               | 
               | However, The claim that 'every single cryptocurrency' is
               | bad for the environment regardless of popularity is still
               | unsubstantiated.
               | 
               | I am only asking for relevant sources rather than
               | attempts to avoid giving out any relevant sources by
               | answering a question with another question.
               | 
               | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29065284
        
           | fbanon wrote:
           | Lol, no. Apple will never associate with something as sketchy
           | as crypto. The same reason they won't ever allow porn or
           | gambling on the AppStore. Apple is about happy families,
           | pastel colors and round shapes.
        
             | breakfastduck wrote:
             | Apple don't allow gambling apps on the App Store? That's
             | not true.
        
               | fbanon wrote:
               | 5.3.3 Apps may not use in-app purchase to purchase credit
               | or currency for use in conjunction with real money gaming
               | of any kind, and may not enable people to purchase
               | lottery or raffle tickets or initiate fund transfers in
               | the app.
        
               | breakfastduck wrote:
               | Irrelevant what this says, they DO allow gambling apps.
               | 
               | https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/william-hill-sports-
               | betting/id...
               | https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/bet365-sports-
               | betting/id519684...
               | 
               | Two of the largest bookmakers in the UK.
               | 
               | And this one is a lottery app so directly one of the
               | things you've said is not allowed
               | 
               | https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/the-national-lottery-
               | official/...
        
               | jsmith45 wrote:
               | That rule is about about the IAP feature. Gambling apps
               | are not required to use IAP, since they don't fall into
               | the definition of what must use IAP. See for example,
               | apps that let you purchase insurance being listed as an
               | example of IAP exempt apps in 3.2.1(v). 5.3.3 forbids
               | using IAP for these purposes, as under some jurisdictions
               | it would put Apple under the gambling regulations. (Apple
               | could be viewed as collecting bet money from betters on
               | behalf of the bookmaker).
               | 
               | 5.3.4 makes it perfectly clear that gambling apps are
               | allowed, if they are "free", properly licensed/authorized
               | to operate, and geo-restricted to only be available where
               | they are authorized to operate.
        
               | The-Bus wrote:
               | Apple has FanDuel, DraftKings, MGM Sportsbook, etc. So it
               | may follow the 5.3.3. rule, but it's certainly gambling
               | in spirit if not in practice.
        
               | thom wrote:
               | They also allow real gambling anyway, in the UK at least.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | willyt wrote:
       | Can I have a 27" ipad running macos and a new 3D CAD software
       | with an open source kernel and apple UI design, scriptable in
       | swift. A bit like a Parasolid sketchup designed for interaction
       | with pencil and touch. Logic Audio for 3D modelling. Apple could
       | get the ui metaphors, interaction UX and the plugin API right.
       | Industries could provide thier own customisations as plugins. Or
       | go and build thier own products arounds the open source kernel
       | and file format. Apple's advantage could be that customisations
       | to thier UI are as easy to build and distribute as an iphone app.
       | High quality open source kernel and file format so it becomes the
       | de-facto way to exchange 3d model information and we dont need to
       | import and export data between systems like now.
       | 
       | Obviously never going to happen as its way to niche but, you
       | know, would be nice.
        
         | jb1991 wrote:
         | They are apparently working on much larger iPads, probably to
         | compete with those huge wacom touch monitors popular in the
         | graphic design industry.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Microsoft already has one, the Surface Studio or whatever.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | >a new 3D CAD software with an open source kernel and apple UI
         | design, scriptable in swift
         | 
         | Why would a company take on such a huge undertaking then link
         | it so intrinsically to just Apple platforms.
         | 
         | The next major CAD software will run in your browser, after
         | seeing how Figma played out it's hard to imagine any design
         | tooling targeting native anymore. Today Figma, tomorrow the
         | software that dethrones Photoshop, eventually... 3D and CAD.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | fbanon wrote:
         | >CAD software with an open source kernel
         | 
         | This one in itself would be a tremendous undertaking.
        
       | klelatti wrote:
       | iCloud is interesting to me. It feels like Apple is so close to
       | having a single trusted secure place on the cloud for all your
       | data. With a few more features I'd be prepare to pay a lot more
       | to escape the clutches of Google.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | As someone not firmly entrenched in the Google ecosystem - what
         | disadvantages are there to be tied to Google?
        
           | klelatti wrote:
           | Customer service. I live in dread of being locked out of my
           | account. Lots and lots of horror stories.
        
       | newaccount2021 wrote:
       | I think Apple and the rest of tech will eventually back away from
       | healthcare. Americans are simultaneously becoming relatively
       | poorer and absolutely more obese. As healthcare devolves to
       | "managing" obesity (diabetes, mobility solutions etc), it will
       | become a depressing bottom-feeding industry that has terrible
       | optics
        
       | sgt101 wrote:
       | All ways always "they should get into healthcare". This is the
       | standard c-suite/pundit new business idea because there's big
       | money at play and NO ONE APART FROM THE HEALTHCARE PEOPLE
       | UNDERSTANDS IT.
       | 
       | So you can safely pitch it to a bunch of nodding dogs, pursue yet
       | another 5 year windmill tilting exercise and bank $500k a year in
       | your salary while you do it. Meanwhile the other execs all wonder
       | what you are doing, but don't have the energy to stop you.
        
       | nextstep wrote:
       | Pretty weak conclusion to this post. Yes, the US spends way more
       | on healthcare (as share of GDP) than any other industrialized
       | nation, but cheaper blood glucose monitoring is not going to put
       | a dent into that price tag. Basically every other nation in the
       | world negotiates prices of medicines and services and has some
       | form of a simpler, single provider model. The US healthcare
       | system is a massive business and there are too many players
       | involved that all siphon profit off at some level, worsening
       | outcomes and inflating prices.
        
       | elondaits wrote:
       | I'm personally very skeptical about an Apple Car appearing any
       | time soon, although people like Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
       | treat it as a certainty.
       | 
       | If Apple were to sell a car they'd need a whole network of
       | authorized repair centers and part distribution. Even if they do
       | a slow rollout starting in the US, that's a whole lot of country
       | to cover. They could start by selling it in just a few cities...
       | but they can't limit where people will drive to, and people
       | stranded with a bricked car, many hundreds of miles away from a
       | service center would be a bad look.
       | 
       | Also, with iPhones and Macs a lot of their ability to provide
       | worldwide repairs is based on entirely replacing whole parts
       | (screen, logic board, battery) which I don't imagine is as easy
       | with a car for multiple reasons.
       | 
       | When Apple created the Apple stores it was a mean feat of
       | entering a new space (retail)... but they already designed and
       | built the product, and did repair and distribution... so entering
       | retail was just reaching vertically a bit more. An Apple car is a
       | whole new "stack" where they only have a minimal part (software /
       | user experience)... so risks / unknowns are much much bigger.
       | 
       | ... All of this would not be the case if Apple were to partner
       | with a car manufacturer that already has a network for sales,
       | parts and repairs, and they just add their "UX magic". But I
       | understand they tried and failed at this... maybe because car
       | companies either don't want the rug being pulled from beneath
       | their feet, operate at low margins, or think they can do user
       | experience better than Apple.
        
         | neuronic wrote:
         | Maybe the wide swaths of US country side are different, but for
         | the (Western) European countries we need less cars and not
         | more.
         | 
         | I love cars and driving but the mobility today is a smelly
         | nightmare. 55 million Germans have insufficient public
         | transport available [1] - they are dependent on cars. 64
         | million Germans live in cities. So even in cities, public
         | transport is bad for quite a few million people. It's often not
         | profitable to provide these services in certain areas, sparking
         | discussions about privatization of public transport.
         | 
         | At the same time, roads and infrastructure are increasingly
         | incapable of supporting all the individual cars. Congestion,
         | traffic jams and just overall shitty "UX" hamper people's lives
         | and by extension the economy. The denser the area, the more
         | true this becomes.
         | 
         | Munich and Berlin both have major issues with their public
         | transport. Munich grew really fast in the last 20 years and
         | it's system is measurably worse than Vienna, for example.
         | 
         | I use car sharing a lot but it is only useful to an extent and
         | doesn't seem to have the promised effect of reducing cars on
         | the road (or rather standing around parking 95% of the time).
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/innenpolitik...
         | (Disclaimer: this study was done by a mobility startup BUT I
         | honestly believe it to be accurate from experience)
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _Maybe the wide swaths of US country side are different, but
           | for the (Western) European countries we need less cars and
           | not more._
           | 
           | In theory, self-driving cars will mean fewer cars, not more.
           | Instead of owning your own car, you just summon one from a
           | pool to take you where you need to go. When you get there, it
           | becomes available for someone else to summon. It's like Uber,
           | but without any people.
           | 
           | That's the one vision of self-driving cars that I like.
        
             | Zababa wrote:
             | That sounds like a worse version of public transportation.
        
               | mulmen wrote:
               | Why can't it supplement public transport? I have to walk
               | 15 minutes to take a 20 minute bus to a transit station.
               | I could drive there in 10 minutes.
               | 
               | Self-driving cars seem ideal for last mile transit.
        
             | azinman2 wrote:
             | Uber and Lyft have been known to add more cars to SF than
             | before. Public transit fits many more people per vehicle
             | than a car does.
        
         | sharikous wrote:
         | If Tesla made it, Apple can too.
         | 
         | From what I understand they already invested a lot of money in
         | research for their car. It seems strange to just let go of
         | that, but of course it is possible
        
           | penjelly wrote:
           | sunk cost fallacy, just because money was spent doesnt mean
           | more money spent is justifiable
        
           | dkonofalski wrote:
           | Sometimes, you do a lot of research just to tell you that you
           | shouldn't do something too... -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
             | tonyedgecombe wrote:
             | Yes, Dyson invested a ton of money just to discover they
             | couldn't compete with their EV.
             | 
             | https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/james-dyson-
             | his-...
        
           | elondaits wrote:
           | That could be money spent building fully functioning
           | prototype cars to attract a partner and/or experimenting with
           | AI, Lidar, etc. to see what kind of breakthroughs they could
           | offer... Or even seeing if they can design a car that can be
           | serviced as easily as an iPhone by replacing large parts.
           | 
           | ... Or maybe they're really doing 100% a car.
           | 
           | ... Just that in their history they never jumped so
           | completely into a wholly new kind of product with such
           | complex logistics... so I find it hard to see it as a sure
           | thing.
        
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