[HN Gopher] Young people are leaving their jobs in record number...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Young people are leaving their jobs in record numbers and not going
       back
        
       Author : batmaniam
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2021-10-30 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (time.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (time.com)
        
       | wolverine876 wrote:
       | If people aren't working, they need money from other sources.
       | Where is it coming from? Is there any serious research on that
       | question?
       | 
       | If it's spending savings, then the effect is temporary - savings
       | will run out and labor supply will increase again. If it's
       | spending less, we should see other negative economic effects.
       | 
       | If it's working for themselves, then what are the economic
       | implications there? What is the economic impact of a major shift
       | to new forms of employment and work? Is it sustainable?
       | 
       | > The burnout of startup culture is common
       | 
       | The article describes many people starting their own businesses -
       | that is startup culture.
        
         | ajkjk wrote:
         | Many people I know are making so much money (regular money, but
         | they're single / not living lavishly so it adds up quickly) in
         | tech that they work a few years and then quit for as long as
         | they feel like it. They can only be accounted for as half a
         | person's worth of workforce if they're only worked half the
         | time.
         | 
         | (And really the only reason I think most people don't do this
         | is the godawful state of American health insurance.)
        
           | vesuvianvenus wrote:
           | Yep. A year ago, I worked 2.5 months, and quit, and the cash
           | I had from those 2.5 months kept be afloat for about 9 months
           | after leaving the company. Granted, I am super frugal,
           | minimalist, and don't have kids/wife.
           | 
           | Now though, I had to take cash out of savings due to vehicle
           | mechanical problems + not landing job as quickly as I hoped--
           | I've also not interviewed a ton, so I need to play it as a
           | "numbers game" again.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | That's what I'm doing. Health insurance hasn't been an issue
           | because I generate the correct amount of income to qualify
           | for the maximum ACA subsidy. I might get back into the labor
           | market come January but haven't decided yet. For now my
           | expenses are very low and I could go for years at this burn
           | rate no problem. Maybe I'll work a year or two and if the
           | pandemic is most over with by then, do a couple of years of
           | traveling, which is much less expensive when you're not
           | confined to restricted vacation time windows.
        
         | Jorge1o1 wrote:
         | >Savings will run out and labor supply will increase again.
         | 
         | This is my pet theory.
         | 
         | One dynamic that I think could be interesting is if enough
         | people exit the labor force, and hold out for enough time,
         | would it force employers to make concessions in order to re-
         | attract laborers?
         | 
         | I already see this happening with always-remote or hybrid being
         | thrown around as a perk in the "Who is Hiring" threads and on
         | LinkedIn.
         | 
         | Maybe wage growth is finally on the horizon?
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | There's also the other side of the story... some people are
           | actually trying to get a job, and are rejected (or more often
           | ghosted) by companies that complain alot about not being able
           | to get workers.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | If remote work is still seen as an employer provided perk,
           | the employer still doesn't get it and likely will do
           | something stupid just as soon as they can.
        
       | nine_zeros wrote:
       | Americans have an incredible leverage. The dollar goes far in
       | other countries. And young people are realizing that. It's far
       | too easy to work 6 months, save 10k and then live the next 6
       | months in another country for cheap.
       | 
       | There is absolutely no reason to work for abusive companies and
       | psychopathic bosses.
       | 
       | If you are sick of your job, quit. There are more jobs available
       | than ever in the history of America.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | I don't think that is the reason. I think they are just tired
         | of working abusive jobs and struggling than that not work and
         | still struggle. There is a shortage of social safety nets
         | though so anyone thinking of quitting without some savings
         | please make sure you have a plan. Sometimes just getting
         | temporary short term assistance can be a full time job in
         | itself, and if you had a descent job before be prepared to have
         | to interview for entry level crap jobs to keep your assistance.
         | Unemployment isn't like it was at the start of the pandemic.
         | They took all the supports away while COVID numbers are still
         | high.
        
         | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
         | I think Americans are realizing they have more leverage than
         | they thought they had, collectively. We'll see how long it
         | lasts though.
        
         | deltree7 wrote:
         | or they are incredibly short-sighted and assume they can manage
         | to survive the next 60 years with whatever meagre savings that
         | they may have and whatever skills that is relevant in 2021 is
         | still relevant 10 years from now.
         | 
         | If you are in your 20s, you think you rule the world (Thanks to
         | validation from Social Media). But those 20 year olds will
         | become 30y and they will be the 'boomers'
         | 
         | The cycle will turn, employment will become harder and 'great
         | resignation' may come back to bite them.
         | 
         | I'm not saying that this might happen. But to categorically say
         | that "This is the way" is incredibly short-sighted
        
           | akudha wrote:
           | Most likely this won't last, but it still is a good thing.
           | People are realizing they have greater than zero options,
           | even if it is minuscule. That realization will help their
           | future thinking and choices.
           | 
           | In my case, I don't even consider non remote jobs anymore (I
           | have been remote since before COVID). Last time, I moved for
           | a job - wasting a few thousand dollars on lease fee,
           | relocation expenses etc. I am a little less stupid now
        
           | hh3k0 wrote:
           | > Or they are incredibly short-sighted and assume they can
           | manage to survive the next 60 years [...]
           | 
           | I'll need you to understand that basically no young person
           | assumes they'll manage to survive the next 30, let alone 60
           | years.
        
           | thrashh wrote:
           | 6 months is not 10 years
        
           | RexM wrote:
           | I didn't see anything in the post you're replying to saying
           | categorically "This is the way."
        
           | kgin wrote:
           | Most of these moves will turn out to be temporary breaks and
           | that's ok.
           | 
           | There's a big range of possibilities that live between "never
           | work again" and "I can't have even a small gap in my resume
           | lest my dedication to capitalism come into question".
        
           | mtalantikite wrote:
           | Let the kids go explore the world. Spending 6 months working
           | and 6 months traveling in a cheaper place with friends sounds
           | great.
           | 
           | It's not like their $15/hr job is ever going to afford them a
           | house if they just grind it out for the next 20 years. They
           | can use that time for self discovery, learning new things,
           | and maybe getting a more stable situation for the future.
           | They have every right to demand to be treated with respect on
           | the job and to quit if it's shitty.
           | 
           | They have the privilege of a US passport and an exchange rate
           | in their favor, might as well use it over the short term. Who
           | knows what the world will even be like environmentally when
           | they're older and have spent their life doing the "proper
           | thing".
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | >It's far too easy to work 6 months, save 10k and then live the
         | next 6 months in another country for cheap.
         | 
         |  _No one is realizing that_. Saving 10k is unbelievably
         | difficult unless you 're making extremely good money to the
         | point where it's out of reach for the majority of Americans.
         | Most Americans can't even stomach a $500 emergency [0] so I
         | don't know where you think these people can work such that they
         | can have 10k set aside after _six months_.
         | 
         | Furthermore, the actual financial hit of living in another
         | country for six months is incredibly difficult. Plane tickets,
         | papers, storage (unless you don't want stuff when you come
         | back), and taxes aren't just going to pay for themselves. Sure,
         | if you make $200k, that's nothing, but the median household
         | income in 2020 was ~$60k [1]. It often feels on HN that
         | everyone has a $500k job except for me and on Reddit, it feels
         | like everyone has a 15-inch dick except for me. The parent post
         | makes me feel that same way.
         | 
         | "If you are sick of your job, quit" is terrible advice. You
         | should quit your job if you are in a steady-enough financial
         | situation to weather being unemployed for an extended period of
         | time or if you have alternative employment lined up. Any other
         | piece of advice is irresponsible to give to someone else.
         | 
         | [0]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-
         | afford-a-50... [1]https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2
         | 021/demo/p60-27...
        
           | rufus_foreman wrote:
           | >> Most Americans can't even stomach a $500 emergency
           | 
           | Your link doesn't say that. It says that for many Americans,
           | if they ran in to a $500 emergency they would put it on a
           | credit card, cut back on other expenses, or ask family or
           | friends to help them out, rather than paying cash from
           | savings.
           | 
           | >> You should quit your job if you are in a steady-enough
           | financial situation to weather being unemployed for an
           | extended period of time or if you have alternative employment
           | lined up. Any other piece of advice is irresponsible to give
           | to someone else
           | 
           | I don't agree with that at all. It depends on where you are
           | at in life. If you have mouths to feed, or other similar
           | obligations, then sure, you need to be careful. If you are 21
           | years old without a care in the world and the boss asks you
           | to do something that you slightly disagree with, give the
           | boss both middle fingers and walk out.
        
       | tamaharbor wrote:
       | I guess the unemployment insurance gig works out pretty good. At
       | least for a while.
        
         | sagarm wrote:
         | You can't collect UI if you quit voluntarily.
        
       | rsj_hn wrote:
       | This piece is a good exemplar of the problems with modern
       | journalism.
       | 
       | First, let's take a look at the statistics cited in the piece
       | which support the main thesis (the whole article is built on two
       | facts):
       | 
       | * highest quit rate since .... 2019! 2019, wow, that was like
       | ancient history. That makes this _historic_!
       | 
       | * 14 million (what a big number!) of 18-34 not in labor force.
       | Isn't that number _so big_? OMG, look at how big that number is!
       | 
       | Whereas the data says both the total not in labor force number
       | and the "do not want job" number has _declined_ for all groups
       | _except those 55 and over_![1] where it has slightly increased.
       | Actually the WSJ got this right when it said the labor story of
       | the day is people (primarily small business owners) taking early
       | retirement. But then again, that story was written by an
       | experienced journalist.
       | 
       | That's it. That's all the labor force participation statistics
       | she cites in support of this "Great Resignation". The rest are a
       | series of grievances about how bad people have it and how they're
       | really not gonna take it anymore! Well, OK, then.
       | 
       | So how could someone write a story with the exact opposite
       | conclusion of what the labor force statistics say? Why would
       | someone think lying about a "Great Resignation" is responsible,
       | objective journalism?
       | 
       | The problem with these type of activist, grievance-based,
       | emptional pieces is that they are not news (describing how the
       | world is) they are advocacy (describing how the world should be).
       | And when you blur those lines, truth and engagement with reality
       | is the first casualty. Raisa obviously thinks a great resignation
       | is warranted and so just pretends that it's happening. As if her
       | own intuition and circle of friends were more reliable than labor
       | force statistics. So she disengages with the real world and
       | starts pretending that it is actually occurring. She is LARPing
       | the news!
       | 
       | And you often see this on the part of frustrated activists. The
       | clues are phrases like "people are starting to wake up", without
       | any actual data. It's perfectly understandable that this happens
       | - lots of people have been secluded, isolated, and are beginning
       | to lose it - but when it seeps into news reporting, it's very
       | dangerous.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm
        
         | exporectomy wrote:
         | That common problem is the arbitrary classification of false
         | narratives as good and false facts (fake news) as bad. The
         | narrative based journalists can act smug for not directly lying
         | but what they're doing is even worse - they're leading people
         | to have a deeply held feeling about the world which is false.
         | Feelings are more powerful than facts and motivate people to
         | protest and vote in large numbers even if it's wrong. But the
         | anti-fake-news people suck up the fake feelings gleefully.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | Almost all of the parent has no foundation. Describing the
         | mindset of the author, with no evidence, is incredible (or, not
         | credible).
         | 
         | It's a 'good exemplar' of criticism that, most of all, fits
         | perfectly in the cultural trends and moment, pressing all the
         | 'right' buttons, triggering all the currently well-conditioned
         | emotions, like a great piece of marketing.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Arguing that the statistics provided do not (or are
           | insufficient) to support the article's main thesis, seems
           | like a very reasonable criticism to me.
        
             | wolverine876 wrote:
             | The argument goes far beyond that.
        
               | bawolff wrote:
               | Hey, i'm just responding to "Almost all of the parent has
               | no foundation"
        
         | digikata wrote:
         | If you look at a chart of the labor force participation rate,
         | it did drop to a low, and has only partially recovered to a
         | rate last seen in the mid-late 1970s. That is significant.
         | Certainly very different from the rate just previous in 2019.
         | Though to really understand it, I think you might have to pick
         | apart the data among different age ranges.
         | 
         | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART/
        
           | rsj_hn wrote:
           | Right, but that instant drop was lockdowns. Basically the
           | whole nation went into lockdown, then partially re-opened.
           | Now you have a partial lockdown situation. E.g. restaurants
           | limited to X people, etc.
           | 
           | If she had written a piece that said "the labor force may not
           | recover from the lockdowns", then she could gather this piece
           | of data and other pieces of data and make a case. But that's
           | not the Great Resignation thesis.
           | 
           | FYI, I am not saying that we should not have good labor
           | reporting -- now is one of the rare times when labor
           | reporting is actually interesting. But not this Time piece. I
           | could spend 10 minutes googling and come up with a more
           | interesting, more fact base piece of journalism.
        
             | digikata wrote:
             | One could interpret the phrase of great resignation a
             | little more loosely, not as one of people leaving their
             | jobs, but not returning as fast as what is obviously
             | expected. But I agree that the data backed research is
             | lacking in this article. With a little more time they could
             | have done an age breakdown of the participation rate and
             | have a much more interesting article with stronger
             | conclusions.
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | I don't think there's any place in the US that has any sort
             | of lockdown.
             | 
             | I think that's been the case for many months now.
        
         | didibus wrote:
         | I think the consumer is part of the problem with news. I won't
         | lie, I come to hacker news everyday and even multiple times a
         | day and refresh hoping to see some new article talking about
         | something controversial or new or ingenious. How can you keep
         | publishing content like that day after day? At some point, you
         | have to inflate things a little, extrapolate, or even enter the
         | realm of reporting on hypothetical and what ifs.
        
         | throwawaycities wrote:
         | You are downplaying reporting of +5% unemployment in 3 months,
         | the difference between now and 2019 is that unlike 2019 those
         | persons were either reemployed or counted as unemployed...now
         | 14M Americans (aged 18-34) are immediately removed from the
         | workforce instead of being counted as unemployed.
         | 
         | You can claim all you want that is not data, but it is and it
         | is telling from a policy perspective. Since when have 18-34
         | year olds that quit been immediately removed from the
         | workforce?
         | 
         | I'll take a guess that you neither are an employer, low wage
         | worker or government worker, because you seem pretty far
         | removed from the reality facing the vast majority in the US.
        
           | saeranv wrote:
           | >> You are downplaying reporting of +5% unemployment in 3
           | months
           | 
           | Maybe it is significant, but even if it was the author's data
           | provides no context to evaluate the 3.9, 3.9, 4.3 million
           | sequence.
           | 
           | >> the difference between now and 2019 is that unlike 2019
           | those persons were either reemployed or counted as
           | unemployed...
           | 
           | Are you sure? I can't find this particular statement in the
           | article. Did I miss something?
           | 
           | >> now 14M Americans (aged 18-34) are immediately removed
           | from the workforce instead of being counted as unemployed.
           | 
           | Again, a single number with no context literally says
           | nothing! If I came to you and said over the last three months
           | our quantity of X increased by 400k from 3.9M, and and
           | cumulative X was now at 14M, do you have enough information
           | to tell if this is unusually high, low or normal behaviour
           | for X?
        
         | shoto_io wrote:
         | Beware, strong opinion ahead:
         | 
         | I think the whole resignation story is just nonsense. I am
         | almost certain it can be explained by people being worried in
         | 2020 so much that they sticked to whatever job they had.
         | 
         | Which leads to... many people quitting in 2021. Surprise! It's
         | probably similar to the whole supply chain hickup.
        
           | ozzythecat wrote:
           | > I am almost certain it can be explained by people being
           | worried in 2020 so much that they sticked to whatever job
           | they had.
           | 
           | I think that's a major contributor. Anecdotally, I think burn
           | out is another factor. Many of my co workers left, not
           | because they would have left in 2020 anyway, but because
           | stress and workload increased significantly. Even when the
           | overall workload didn't increase, many of my coworkers
           | (including myself) were glued to our screens - working non
           | stop into the evening, with no sense of boundaries. And for
           | many of us, work life balance was already whack. COVID WFH
           | just pushed it off a cliff.
           | 
           | I'm highly paid and enjoy the nature of my work, but every
           | couple weeks I think about resigning. Honestly, I'm tired. I
           | am highly paid, privileged, and have a wonderful boss, but
           | sometimes I feel like a cog in a machine. My boss cares about
           | me but my company just sees me as a replaceable resource. And
           | that's not to disparage my employer. It's just the reality of
           | working in corporate America.
        
             | cronix wrote:
             | > It's just the reality of working in corporate America.
             | 
             | I think it's just the reality of working for someone else,
             | and the longer you do it the higher the chance of
             | 
             | > I feel like a cog in a machine
             | 
             | becomes. There's a lot that comes with getting older, such
             | as hindsight. Lots of things felt different when I was
             | first experiencing them, vs after 40 (we'll say) years of
             | it. You see things differently, because you know more
             | through direct experience that can't be taught.
        
             | pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
             | > I'm highly paid and enjoy the nature of my work, but
             | every couple weeks I think about resigning.
             | 
             | Delegation is the cornerstone of civilization.
             | <https://sandstorm.io/news/2015-05-05-delegation-is-the-
             | corne...>
             | 
             | Have you considered exploiting work-from-home by
             | outsourcing your job (not necessarily overseas, but to
             | another eager body that you're able to vet face-to-face)?
             | If you're replaceable to your company and you can find a
             | replacement more easily and competently than your employer
             | can--something that has to be true if the truisms that most
             | of HN accepts are actually sound--why not replace yourself
             | and benefit from it at the same time by skimming off the
             | top?
        
           | ajsnigrutin wrote:
           | Also a lot of people lost their jobs during the covid crisis,
           | and moved out of expensive cities, back to their parents
           | houses not-in-manhattan, and because of realestate prices
           | being even higher, a lot of them can't afford to come back,
           | atleast not at shitty pay rates the most affected industries
           | (service, food,...) are offering.
        
           | addicted wrote:
           | I'm fairly convinced that the Great Resignation is the sum
           | of:
           | 
           | 1) Natural turnover that did not happen in 2020 adding to
           | natural turnover in 2021. 2) 2021 natural turnover. 3) People
           | (primarily women) not being able to return to work because of
           | child and elderly care.
           | 
           | The reason I don't think it's something more than that is
           | that other countries are not seeing a great resignation. Only
           | the US is. And the US didn't even have struct lockdowns
           | unlike other countries including countries richer and poorer
           | than the US on a per capita basis.
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | > 3) People (primarily women) not being able to return to
             | work because of child and elderly care.
             | 
             | I think that one is key, BUT primarily because I also think
             | that one is not likely to recede as quickly the other
             | causes will.
             | 
             | I think many people with young children, where both parents
             | worked, and one of those parents was in a relatively low
             | wage job, realized that it actually made more financial and
             | "mental health" sense to have that parent just quit and
             | take care of their children full time. With as expensive as
             | childcare is in the US, people realized "Why am I
             | completely stressing myself out, having someone else raise
             | my kids, when I earn X, but something in the neighborhood
             | of .8X goes to childcare, expenses for having a job
             | (commuting, work clothes, etc.), and taxes. I'd rather have
             | a slightly lower standard of living without having to deal
             | with a bullshit job and having so little time with my
             | kids."
             | 
             | I believe _that_ dynamic is one that has staying power. All
             | of the other fantasies ( "people are standing up to the man
             | and saying they won't come back until wages increase") will
             | face reality once people's savings run out and they realize
             | they like having shelter and eating.
        
             | im3w1l wrote:
             | > Only the US is.
             | 
             | That's a super interesting fact but I don't think it so
             | obviously points out that this is a non-event. Why would
             | the turn from 2020 add but not in the rest of the world?
             | Why would women go home to child/elderly care and not in
             | the rest of the world? Pretty mysterious!
        
         | endisneigh wrote:
         | I honestly find your response here to be far more emotional
         | than the actual article for what it's worth.
         | 
         | >So how could someone write a story with the exact opposite
         | conclusion of what the labor force statistics say? Why would
         | someone think lying about a "Great Resignation" is responsible,
         | objective journalism?
         | 
         | It's not the opposite, though.
         | 
         | In fact nothing you're saying even contradicts what the article
         | is saying. Basically your entire criticism is around what you
         | perceive the authors intent is in writing the article, which is
         | funny given your post.
        
         | saeranv wrote:
         | This is a really good critique. I would not have thought to
         | read this article as critically as you did, and likely would
         | have accepted it at face value. But now that you mention it,
         | there's more issues I see:
         | 
         | "This is the highest mass resignation the U.S. has seen since
         | 2019, pre-pandemic, and the numbers are still rising. In June,
         | 3.9 million quit. In July, it was another 3.9 million. In
         | August, 4.3 million."
         | 
         | The [3.9M, 3.9M, 4.3M] sequence seems cherry picked. It could
         | just be normal noise for all we know. To me this kind of
         | argument could be easily summarized with simple data
         | visualization, i.e. a line graph with more datapoints (expand 3
         | month range to a full year, stack more years for context). A
         | histogram of monthly resignations to attach a %-ile to it would
         | also be great, but may not be as intuitive and there's a lot of
         | complexity involved in trying to understand significance.
         | 
         | The author follows the monthly resignation numbers with: "The
         | numbers are even more notable for young workers: in September,
         | nearly a quarter of workers ages 20 to 34 were not considered
         | part of the U.S. workforce--some 14 million Americans,
         | according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who were neither
         | working nor looking for work."
         | 
         | You interpret this as them saying 14M is a big number, but I
         | think based on the preceding sentence, it's actually trying to
         | say 14M is "more notable" than the ~3.9M in the preceding
         | argument. I kind of think this is the case, as its a really
         | common data mistake I see in articles: mixing up units. In this
         | case of course, out-of-labor/month cannot be compared to
         | cumulative out-of-labor-young/month.
         | 
         | That being said, I disagree with you on your attribution of
         | this to activist journalism. And for context, I'll just say
         | that unlike the vast majority of HN, I actually have a lot of
         | respect for most modern journalism, and think most people
         | complaining about journalism aren't comparing state of affairs
         | in countries like China/Russia/Sri-Lanka without press freedom.
         | 
         | My more generous interpretation is that another underlying
         | cause for these kinds of mistakes is simply a lack of
         | familiarity with math, and especially statistics. A journalist
         | with good intentions can still make these kinds of errors if
         | they aren't familiar with good practise in statistics.
         | 
         | Finally, I just wanted to say, there are quite a few
         | journalists that are pretty good at data-based journalism. I
         | think Kevin Drum[1] is a particularly good example, since he'll
         | often refute other articles by digging up more data and
         | illustrating how marginal some percieved effect is in context.
         | 
         | 1. https://jabberwocking.com/
         | 
         | ETA: Fixed unit confusion critique mistake, it's not
         | resignation but out-of-labor.
        
         | inputvolch wrote:
         | All solid points. And so then it makes you wonder why something
         | like this:
         | 
         | 1. Gets submitted to Hacker News
         | 
         | 2. Gets voted to the front page by HN readers
         | 
         | It must fit with a narrative that people already are
         | predisposed to believe. Maybe that's why the piece gets written
         | to begin with.
        
           | Ancapistani wrote:
           | HN seems to require that an article be interesting, or spur
           | interesting conversations - not that it be well-written or
           | even correct.
        
             | bloodyplonker22 wrote:
             | Indeed. It's really just the fact that most people don't
             | think independently. On HN, there is a greater ratio of
             | people who actually use their brain (vs reddit, for
             | example), thus there will be comments calling out the
             | article's correctness.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Online "news" needs to get hits and thus make money. Being
           | actual news is a far distant priority to that.
           | 
           | People are interested in and believe there is a "Great
           | Resignation" even though it's not happening. Why? I don't
           | know. But I think this is the actual story - and I wish
           | someone would write it.
           | 
           | But "you believe X and it's wrong" stories generally don't do
           | well.
        
             | rsj_hn wrote:
             | > Online "news" needs to get hits and thus make money.
             | Being actual news is a far distant priority to that.
             | 
             | Yeah, I get why Time hires these kids. They fired the
             | senior reporters to cut costs and pay peanuts to the
             | replacements, many of whom are fresh out of college and are
             | morally opposed to the concept of objectivity, when they
             | see their role as advocating for some kind of justice.
             | 
             | Why would someone accept such a poor paying job? Because it
             | gives them a platform. So part of their compensation is to
             | air grievances - to "be heard". To push for justice. That
             | sense of fulfillment on the part of the reporter is part of
             | the compensation package.
             | 
             | These are the people that self-select into these jobs, as
             | reporters who value "being heard" less will expect more
             | cash payment. So on the labor supply side, business save
             | money by hiring reporters who tilt more towards valuing
             | "being heard" and "justice".
             | 
             | But on the demand side, facts have been commodified so much
             | with the internet that merely the gathering of interesting
             | data and presentation thereof is not highly valued. What is
             | highly valued is opinion, especially outrage-inducing bias-
             | confirming opinion. That is why you see the rise of
             | Buzzfeed and outlets like Time are drawn into that orbit.
             | 
             | It's not good for our body politic, but it makes business
             | sense.
             | 
             | > People are interested in and believe there is a "Great
             | Resignation" even though it's not happening. Why?
             | 
             | Because the labor market is all screwed up now. Covid and
             | the lockdowns have made it completely topsy turvy. So it's
             | an area of intense interest, and then -- like the port
             | situation -- people project their own bugbears onto that.
             | So some will insist that this is some revolt of labor over
             | capital, and they follow those stories. Others insist it's
             | government mismanagement and follow those stories.
        
               | im3w1l wrote:
               | I think you are underestimating "these kids". Getting a
               | low paid position position as a powerbroker is not as
               | stupid as you think. A frightening thing to consider over
               | halloween: If Time wont pay them, someone else might.
               | It's a well known that powerful positions with low pay
               | are a recipe for corruption disaster.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | Worth noting that Time is owned by Benioff and that he is a
       | central 'digital' figure at the DAVOS nexus.
        
       | Tangokat wrote:
       | I think an interesting datapoint in this discussion is that the
       | second fastest growing subreddit (behind /r/announcements) is
       | /r/antiwork.
       | 
       | There seems to be pretty strong sentiment out there that the
       | minimum wage American worker is not being compensated correctly.
       | 
       | The market is supposed to fix this by adding wage growth and
       | maybe it will.
        
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