[HN Gopher] Internet Hay Exchange
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Internet Hay Exchange
        
       Author : ggoo
       Score  : 263 points
       Date   : 2021-10-29 15:58 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.hayexchange.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.hayexchange.com)
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | I see multiple entries where the price of the hay is listed as 0
       | but comments ask that callers inquire about the price - e.g. [1].
       | Is there some percentage of price that posters are charged by the
       | exchange that they are trying to avoid, or is this because price
       | changes in a complex way depending on quantity?
       | 
       | 1 - http://www.hayexchange.com/display_detail_hay.php?id=294517
        
       | sushsjsuauahab wrote:
       | I wonder if know your customer laws apply to straw purchases
        
         | Ancapistani wrote:
         | I understood - and appreciated - that reference.
         | 
         | The next time I decide I need a straw bale for whatever reason,
         | I'm sending my wife to make the deal :)
        
       | bargle0 wrote:
       | Why is alfalfa worth so much less?
        
         | dccoolgai wrote:
         | Iirc alfalfa is also a popular cover crop / used to restore
         | soil fertility, so there might just be a lot more of it.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | It's less per bale (a volume measure), more per ton, meaning
         | it's probably just less dense in bale form.
        
       | aharris6 wrote:
       | I thought this was going to be a Yo competitor
        
         | dbavaria wrote:
         | Okay, which one of you is squatting on heyexchange.com?
        
         | schoen wrote:
         | Oh, that's the Internet Hey Exchange!
        
           | aharris6 wrote:
           | Oops, easy mistake to make!
        
       | seanherron wrote:
       | I own a farm, this summer we produced and sold about 1500 bales
       | of hay. Had no idea hay exchange existed, the vast majority of
       | our sales were via craigslist and Facebook marketplace, with most
       | being small-scale (50 bales or fewer). The rest came from word of
       | mouth and our local 4-H group.
       | 
       | Producing hay at this scale is extremely difficult. The start-up
       | costs are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you're
       | typically barely breaking even. This year is unusual in that
       | supply was way down, so prices were a lot higher than normal. The
       | only reason we can do it is that we have a relationship with
       | someone who cuts & bales a number of small fields for a per-ton
       | fee.
       | 
       | I could see a tool like this being useful for large-scale
       | operations that are doing the big round bales yet don't have an
       | established relationship with a buyer. For an operation like
       | ours, where we are producing small ~60lb traditional square
       | bales, I don't think we're going to find anyone local enough who
       | wants to buy at the quantity and size we have. For instance, only
       | two entries in the entire state of Oregon.
       | 
       | That said, I'll post on here next season, I'd be really
       | interested to see if anyone reaches out.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | If you're looking for a non-conventional way to sell your hay
         | bales, think about seasonal decoration.
         | 
         | There are plenty of city slickers who will pay more than
         | farmers for hay bales to put on their front porches in
         | September and October. My wife spent a week searching a six-
         | county area trying to find one for her annual hay bale +
         | cornstalk + indian corn + pumpkin + scarecrow display.
         | 
         | I've occasionally seen mini hay bales for sale in supermarkets.
         | They're about the size of a MacBook and go for around $10.
         | 
         | My guess is that what would be most cost-efficient for you is
         | to find a garden center or regional big box hardware store that
         | sells seasonal decorations, so that you can make one large
         | delivery to where the people are.
         | 
         | If any of your neighboring farms have pumpkin patches, maybe
         | they'd be interested in selling hay bales to the public. We
         | went to three pumpkin patches this year, and while all had hay
         | bales for their own use, none had any for sale to the public.
         | 
         | Just a thought from someone who's not a farmer, but has always
         | had an interest in farms.
        
           | mstratman wrote:
           | Those are usually straw bales from what I've seen.
        
         | vidanay wrote:
         | I've been cutting my own hay (10 acres) for 17 years now. My
         | equipment investment was as bare-bones cheap as possible ($5k
         | for a 1960's tractor, $2500 for a 1960's baler, $1k for a
         | couple of wagons, $2k for a wheel rake, probably $10k in
         | maintenance over the years). The one thing I can say with
         | confidence is that making hay is the single most stressful
         | thing I do all year. Finding clear weather, and then watching
         | the weather hour to hour after it is cut, and before baling day
         | is agonizing.
        
           | seanherron wrote:
           | I wish used equipment was that cheap now! We are constantly
           | looking and old balers in our area are still going for $7k+.
           | For something relatively recent and in good working order,
           | much higher. Also, don't forget building a dry place to stack
           | and store all of it!
        
             | wolverine876 wrote:
             | Why has it become more expensive?
        
               | Taek wrote:
               | I know nothing about farming but there's a global
               | manufacturing shortage right now that is making new parts
               | and new machines scarce, which puts a lot of pressure on
               | the used parts market. I'm guessing there's not much
               | special here and that it's just participating in the
               | global trend.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I wonder if any of the price pressure is due to people
               | seeking old older equipment to avoid the DRM crap from
               | John Deere.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | More advice, make sure the off gassing of green hay,
             | doesn't blow up the barn!
             | 
             | (My grandma was blown up, a story she loved to retell when
             | I was a child... "Did you know I was blown up? Threw me 50
             | feet from the barn!")
        
             | throwaway984393 wrote:
             | > Also, don't forget building a dry place to stack and
             | store all of it!
             | 
             | Would Romanian haystacks help? Or is it impossible to do it
             | on a large scale without a large amount of manual labor?
             | Can you just drape a tarp over each hay bale?
        
               | Ancapistani wrote:
               | Tarps are expensive, and hay bales are comparatively
               | inexpensive.
               | 
               | That said, I've seen farmers use old billboards as tarps
               | in the past. Otherwise, it's usually either a barn or a
               | plastic sheeting.
        
             | vidanay wrote:
             | I guess that's good for me. My last cutting ever was last
             | Saturday. We are moving and all the equipment will be sold
             | in the spring (or sold with the property.) Located in N.
             | Illinois.
        
               | bradleyankrom wrote:
               | Would be interested in learning more about the property
               | you're selling ... the wife & I have been looking around
               | Northern Illinois (she's from Rockford) for a small farm.
               | My email is in my bio.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > For instance, only two entries in the entire state of Oregon.
         | 
         | And both of those entries appear to in fact be in Nebraska.
        
       | zeckalpha wrote:
       | I was expecting this to be a pun about making hay, but was
       | delighted by what I found instead.
        
       | ch33zer wrote:
       | Slightly off topic: different areas use very different kinds of
       | hay bales. The Oregon seems to use bale's while Idaho, Wyoming,
       | and Colorado seem to mostly use rolled bale's. I have no idea why
       | this would be but it's what I noticed on a recent cross country
       | bike ride (I had a lot of time to stare at hay bales)
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | It is because the USDA determined that cattle were not getting
         | a square meal. <Ba da dum, tiss.>
         | 
         | I'll go annoy my kids now.
        
       | billpg wrote:
       | Hay there.
       | 
       | (I'll get my coat.)
        
       | NegativeLatency wrote:
       | Thought this was going to be about Hayes modems
        
       | lettergram wrote:
       | Haha I have some hay in TN. Guess I'll throw it up here
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | This is freaking beautiful. The internet could have been like
       | this.
       | 
       | I'm going to show my Mom, she is always wanting to find good hay.
       | 
       | Perhaps a bit more info though like pics would be good haha. Some
       | indication of the quality.
        
         | ridaj wrote:
         | > Perhaps a bit more info though like pics would be good haha.
         | Some indication of the quality.
         | 
         | Maybe some value-added services like transportation, credit,
         | and insurance too? Oh and a seller and buyer reputation system
         | so you know you're not getting stiffed. A convenient IoT button
         | to reorder hay without opening the computer. Ads, to pay for
         | the servers. An app to know where your hay's at?
         | 
         | Nah you and I know all that bullshit ends up getting gamed with
         | meager user benefit. Surely at some point even this gets up on
         | freaking Amazon or Etsy or "eHay" but until then here's the
         | sound of a creaky dude pouring one out for the old Craigslist-
         | style BBS out there. Make it last and fuck the VCs.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Indeed. Sometimes the LACK of information or streamlined
           | systems is the feature. It keeps things simple and flexible.
           | 
           | I need hay and you have the right kind in my region.
           | 
           | Okay let's have a _conversation_ and figure it out.
        
         | datalus wrote:
         | > The internet could have been like this.
         | 
         | It still can and like others have said it does exist in some
         | places. I mean this site is an example, right? :)
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | "I wish 2006 Camrys were for sale and everyone would buy them",
         | says man who only ever buys the latest car.
        
         | Dangeranger wrote:
         | > The internet could have been like this.
         | 
         | The internet _was_ like this. It took twenty years for us to
         | fuck it up, it will probably take another twenty to fix it.
        
         | Alex3917 wrote:
         | > The internet could have been like this.
         | 
         | Is it not? I used chipdrop twice this year with reasonably good
         | results, and that's pretty similar:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAv8SzB_Aw
         | 
         | (If you haven't seen it, they have probably the best startup
         | video since dollar shave.)
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | Does she run a large scale farm? These are all dealt in tons /
         | hundreds / thousands of bales.
        
           | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
           | I assume you don't have to buy the whole lot, if it is like
           | other hay sellers we have known.
        
             | pkulak wrote:
             | Big assumption. I've got a couple rabbits, but I'm also not
             | gonna waste some farmer's time trying to buy 20 pounds of
             | hay.
             | 
             | It would be cool though.
        
             | scoopertrooper wrote:
             | Looking at the site, most are dealing in large quantities,
             | but this guy in Kentucky will deliver your mother a small
             | square Teff bale for $5.
             | 
             | http://www.hayexchange.com/display_detail_hay.php?id=295584
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | HAAAAAAAY-There.com?
        
           | supermatt wrote:
           | you dont need a large scale farm to use tons or hundreds of
           | bales.
           | 
           | 3 horses will eat ~350kg medium round bale in a week. 3 cows
           | will eat slightly faster than that. 12 goats/sheep will eat a
           | bale a week. They will eat more in cold weather (over 30%
           | more in winter from my experience) or when producing milk.
           | 
           | 1 medium round bale is about 15 square bales. 1 big round
           | bale is about 2x medium bale. I'm not sure about big square
           | bales, but id guess about the same as a big round.
           | 
           | You would expect around 15% wastage in a decent feeder. Youre
           | also going to discard some hay due to it not being of
           | consistent quality, etc. Its also quite common to discard the
           | first "layer" of many round bales if they have been
           | weathered/stored incorrectly - especially when using as horse
           | feed.
           | 
           | That said - my understanding is that these sellers have that
           | total quantity to sell. You will likely be able to buy small
           | quantities. Some people go and pick up their hay weekly from
           | producers as they dont have suitable storage.
           | 
           | EDIT: Weights vary - the weights given above are about
           | average from my experience, but vary depending on moisture
           | content, types of grass, how tightly the bale has been
           | compacted, etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | booleandilemma wrote:
         | _The internet could have been like this_
         | 
         | The fact that this site exists means the internet _is_ like
         | this. It 's this, and more.
         | 
         | It's not the internet's fault that people choose the same 5
         | websites to visit every day.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | How the hell did you know this?! Get _out of my mind!_
        
           | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
           | "it's not the internet's fault that people choose the same 5
           | websites to visit every day"
           | 
           | A person visiting the same five websites every day is not
           | itself a problem. Each person could choose a different set of
           | five websites.
           | 
           | However when so many people choose the same five websites
           | every day, for whatever reason, then what we have seen is
           | that those five websites begin to actively manipulate
           | traffic, through whatever means necessary (including
           | acquisition of other websites) to maintain their
           | "popularity". Generally, the only way they can make money is
           | advertising since they offer nothing of value. They are
           | merely intermediaries with the intent to serve ads. "Portals"
           | with heavy surveillance and data collection.
           | 
           | Amazon, after it has killing anyone's dreams of an internet
           | with competitive e-commerce, has transitioned to web hosting.
           | More manipualtion of traffic and data collection. Advertising
           | is next, no doubt.
        
         | AlbertCory wrote:
         | The internet _is_ like this. I used Discogs to sell (most of)
         | my old vinyl records. I bought 100 record-sized boxes, and used
         | them all. Also bought a few CDs. Their database seems to have
         | virtually every edition from every country of every record ever
         | sold.
         | 
         | Sometimes people would ask for photos, and I'd supply them.
         | Discogs has a ratings guide, so I could describe the quality
         | accurately.
         | 
         | The people who bought them were overwhelmingly nice (with just
         | a couple exceptions).
        
       | Ansil849 wrote:
       | What does it mean that lots of the hay is listed as not being
       | "tested"?
        
         | User23 wrote:
         | Maybe for pathogens or type of plant?[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://extension.psu.edu/tall-fescue-potential-problem-
         | for-...
        
         | floren wrote:
         | Testing for nutrient quantity. The quality of hay can vary
         | hugely based on soil, weather, and other factors.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | uorfyujfl wrote:
       | you bitch
        
       | luma wrote:
       | As a city slicker who understands nothing of modern agriculture,
       | can I get an explanation of what is going on here?
        
         | glup wrote:
         | Similarly naive follow-up: how much hay is needed per animal
         | per month, assuming no other sources of food? (or does one
         | always provide hay plus something else?)
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | Of course it varies by quite a lot. But 2% of body weight per
           | day is in the area.
           | 
           | And what you feed is based on nutrition, cost, availability,
           | and the specifics of your operation. It can be all one thing
           | for a while, but there's usually more of a strategy to it.
        
           | RDaneel0livaw wrote:
           | The answer to this also depends a lot on the ambient outdoors
           | temperature. Horses can stay warm through the winter outside
           | in almost any weather (down to single digits F easily). But
           | in order to do so, they use their GI system like a furnace.
           | So they basically are CONSTANTLY eating and pooping. So the
           | colder it gets the more they eat.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | People buy hay for their cattle to eat. See dropdown menu for
         | products, this is one large dealer:
         | 
         | https://www.anderson-hay.com/
         | 
         | If you visit the area where that company is located you can see
         | many full length flatbed semi truck trailers entirely covered
         | in hay bales.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Fields are planted with things grazing animals like to eat then
         | mowed, the plants are dried and baled and can be stored for a
         | long time to feed animals when needed.
         | 
         | It's not really a commodity product like grains so the producer
         | and consumer are much more likely to deal directly with one
         | another.
         | 
         | These are classified ads for cow food.
        
           | cracell wrote:
           | Is this because middlemen take too big of a cut?
           | 
           | I work for an agricultural company that does a decent amount
           | of hay sales as a middle man but I'm not too familiar with
           | that part of the business.
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | I think it's also that middlemen can't do much to add any
             | value. Transport is quite expensive due to low density so
             | you usually purchase local and the finished product is
             | ready literally in the field, there is no amount of
             | packaging or processing to be done, just moving.
        
           | cmclaughlin wrote:
           | > These are classified ads for cow food.
           | 
           | I was talking to a friend about this recently... he was
           | stressing out about rain on his hay piles. He said cows will
           | eat just about anything - even hay that's been rained on. But
           | other animals, such as horses, are more picky and need
           | specialized feed.
           | 
           | Just FYI as I found that interesting
        
             | AngryData wrote:
             | Horses have a fairly delicate stomachs, you only really
             | want to feed them the first and second cuttings of hay
             | because later cuttings are too rich with alfalfa and lack
             | the fiber from weeds and grasses and give them the shits.
             | Cows however can eat basically any green plant matter and
             | the later hay cuttings are packed with nutrients.
        
           | JasonFruit wrote:
           | I love this about HN. I come from where everyone understands
           | hay, and it's good for me to see that a) someone would not
           | understand what a hay exchange is, and b) that someone will
           | explain it simply and clearly to them. Everything about this
           | is a good interaction.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | Why isn't it a commodity?
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | Price per volume is considerably lower than grain, material
             | handling is much more complex (grain is essentially a
             | fluid), it doesn't store as well as grain, it has far fewer
             | uses and users, it isn't very standardized: bale size and
             | type, what plants go into the bales, quality changes over
             | time, seasonality, weather sensitivity... etc.
        
             | cmclaughlin wrote:
             | > Why isn't it a commodity
             | 
             | From a friend - in recent years draught conditions in
             | California have reduced hay production
        
         | mawise wrote:
         | IANAFarmer: Grazing animals like horses and cows need to eat
         | something over the winter. You can plant fields of grass and
         | harvest them into hay bales for storage. If you aren't devoting
         | any/enough of your land as hay fields, then you need to buy hay
         | from someone else.
        
           | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
           | I read/watched some long time ago that for the majority of
           | farmers wanting to provide hay for their animals, it makes no
           | economic sens to grow their own.
           | 
           | This means that most of the hay being consumed is purchased
           | somewhere else.
        
             | silisili wrote:
             | Confused by this comment - any more detail?
             | 
             | My father had a small farm(20ish acres) with cattle, as did
             | a lot of people in the area at the time. There wasn't
             | really a cost for hay outside of time and equipment up
             | front(which isn't a lot), they just let the grass grow, cut
             | it, let it sit, hit it with tines, bale it, etc.
             | 
             | Are you saying it's not efficient, and a full efficiency
             | farm would use said grassland for crops instead? I can see
             | that, but then where do the cattle roam?
        
               | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
               | This is not the original source (was it a planet money
               | episode? I really can't remember), but here's what I
               | found:
               | 
               | > You also may want to compare the costs of purchasing
               | hay with producing your own hay. In some markets, it may
               | be cheaper to buy someone else's hay and use your own
               | forage for additional grazing. Finally, knowing your
               | harvesting costs is critical for a custom operator who
               | wants to be profitable over the long haul.
               | 
               | Source:
               | https://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/facilities-
               | equipmen...
        
               | silisili wrote:
               | Thanks(to both of you, but only replying once).
               | 
               | I completely forgot we had to cordon off areas for a time
               | to let grow, and rotate.
               | 
               | It totally makes sense to me now - this is essentially
               | about being able to raise more head per acre, since you'd
               | have more grazing area at any time.
        
               | mason55 wrote:
               | Maybe it's more efficient if you use all the grass for
               | grazing in summer then buy hay in winter, vs letting some
               | grass grow to use for hay later?
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | codazoda wrote:
             | There's a small (5 acres maybe) field by me where the
             | farmer keeps horses. He moves the horses from one half of
             | the field to the other and grows hay in the opposite side.
             | I see him cut it down and bale it about twice a year. Looks
             | like it's pretty self sustaining. I've never stopped to
             | talk to the owner about it.
        
       | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
       | > Alfalfa hay is an excellent source of good quality protein and
       | fiber. [0]
       | 
       | From a nutritional perspective, is consuming beef more efficient
       | than directly consuming a dish cooked with these plants?
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.anderson-hay.com/alfalfa-hay
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | Though it does have a relatively high amount of protein for
         | plant material, most of alfalfa hay (and all hay, for that
         | matter) is still cellulose, which people cannot digest and cows
         | can (thanks to their symbiotic gut bacteria).
         | 
         | Feeding _grain_ to cattle is pretty inefficient, because people
         | can eat grain directly, but hay not so much.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | How come the wanted section isn't filtered by state?
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | Love the simple design! Made me think of craigslist
        
       | flatline wrote:
       | The link for New Mexico takes me to South Dakota, further
       | evidence that New Mexico is not a state.
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | Reminds me of the game drugwars
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | But hay is usually very local, yes? Because it's hard to
       | transport it a long way. So normally a farmer puts a sign by the
       | road saying 'hay for sale' and people in the local area buy/sell
       | it to each other as needed. Under what circumstances would you
       | need to get hay from a long way away?
       | 
       | Are there specialist Hays?
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | You can live just miles away from a farm and never drive past
         | it. I don't get the cross state lines sales but this seems like
         | a reasonable replacement for a one line ad in the weekly
         | paper/notice at the bottle shop.
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | > But hay is usually very local, yes? Because it's hard to
         | transport it a long way.
         | 
         | Not necessarily. It's not at all unheard of to truck large
         | loads of hay several states away.
        
         | oflannabhra wrote:
         | Yes, there are. Bale shape determines some characteristics of
         | the hay, and While the majority of hay is cut for and consumed
         | by cows, horse hay is another matter. As horses are far more
         | expensive animals, higher quality hay can fetch a premium. And
         | while generally hay is produced and consumed locally, I know of
         | several folks that ship several thousand bales across multiple
         | states.
        
         | troymc wrote:
         | Here in Saskatchewan, it was unusually dry this year, so the
         | amount of hay was way less than normal. I heard figures like
         | 10% to 20% of normal in some areas. As a result, the price of
         | hay went way up, and some people are getting hay from as far
         | away as Ontario. Also, there was an increase in hay bale theft.
         | The thieves typically come to steal the bales in the middle of
         | the night.
        
           | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
           | This is the case in the northwestern areas of USA also.
           | Washington, Idaho, Montana areas. Hay production has been
           | down so the scarcity/prices have gone up. And that also means
           | more theft.
           | 
           | The farmers/ranchers are allowed to shoot the wolves that eat
           | their cows, but they can't shoot the hay thieves! So they
           | just grumble and make Uncle Sam pay for it.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-30 23:00 UTC)