[HN Gopher] Internet Hay Exchange
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Internet Hay Exchange
Author : ggoo
Score : 263 points
Date : 2021-10-29 15:58 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.hayexchange.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.hayexchange.com)
| ALittleLight wrote:
| I see multiple entries where the price of the hay is listed as 0
| but comments ask that callers inquire about the price - e.g. [1].
| Is there some percentage of price that posters are charged by the
| exchange that they are trying to avoid, or is this because price
| changes in a complex way depending on quantity?
|
| 1 - http://www.hayexchange.com/display_detail_hay.php?id=294517
| sushsjsuauahab wrote:
| I wonder if know your customer laws apply to straw purchases
| Ancapistani wrote:
| I understood - and appreciated - that reference.
|
| The next time I decide I need a straw bale for whatever reason,
| I'm sending my wife to make the deal :)
| bargle0 wrote:
| Why is alfalfa worth so much less?
| dccoolgai wrote:
| Iirc alfalfa is also a popular cover crop / used to restore
| soil fertility, so there might just be a lot more of it.
| sokoloff wrote:
| It's less per bale (a volume measure), more per ton, meaning
| it's probably just less dense in bale form.
| aharris6 wrote:
| I thought this was going to be a Yo competitor
| dbavaria wrote:
| Okay, which one of you is squatting on heyexchange.com?
| schoen wrote:
| Oh, that's the Internet Hey Exchange!
| aharris6 wrote:
| Oops, easy mistake to make!
| seanherron wrote:
| I own a farm, this summer we produced and sold about 1500 bales
| of hay. Had no idea hay exchange existed, the vast majority of
| our sales were via craigslist and Facebook marketplace, with most
| being small-scale (50 bales or fewer). The rest came from word of
| mouth and our local 4-H group.
|
| Producing hay at this scale is extremely difficult. The start-up
| costs are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you're
| typically barely breaking even. This year is unusual in that
| supply was way down, so prices were a lot higher than normal. The
| only reason we can do it is that we have a relationship with
| someone who cuts & bales a number of small fields for a per-ton
| fee.
|
| I could see a tool like this being useful for large-scale
| operations that are doing the big round bales yet don't have an
| established relationship with a buyer. For an operation like
| ours, where we are producing small ~60lb traditional square
| bales, I don't think we're going to find anyone local enough who
| wants to buy at the quantity and size we have. For instance, only
| two entries in the entire state of Oregon.
|
| That said, I'll post on here next season, I'd be really
| interested to see if anyone reaches out.
| reaperducer wrote:
| If you're looking for a non-conventional way to sell your hay
| bales, think about seasonal decoration.
|
| There are plenty of city slickers who will pay more than
| farmers for hay bales to put on their front porches in
| September and October. My wife spent a week searching a six-
| county area trying to find one for her annual hay bale +
| cornstalk + indian corn + pumpkin + scarecrow display.
|
| I've occasionally seen mini hay bales for sale in supermarkets.
| They're about the size of a MacBook and go for around $10.
|
| My guess is that what would be most cost-efficient for you is
| to find a garden center or regional big box hardware store that
| sells seasonal decorations, so that you can make one large
| delivery to where the people are.
|
| If any of your neighboring farms have pumpkin patches, maybe
| they'd be interested in selling hay bales to the public. We
| went to three pumpkin patches this year, and while all had hay
| bales for their own use, none had any for sale to the public.
|
| Just a thought from someone who's not a farmer, but has always
| had an interest in farms.
| mstratman wrote:
| Those are usually straw bales from what I've seen.
| vidanay wrote:
| I've been cutting my own hay (10 acres) for 17 years now. My
| equipment investment was as bare-bones cheap as possible ($5k
| for a 1960's tractor, $2500 for a 1960's baler, $1k for a
| couple of wagons, $2k for a wheel rake, probably $10k in
| maintenance over the years). The one thing I can say with
| confidence is that making hay is the single most stressful
| thing I do all year. Finding clear weather, and then watching
| the weather hour to hour after it is cut, and before baling day
| is agonizing.
| seanherron wrote:
| I wish used equipment was that cheap now! We are constantly
| looking and old balers in our area are still going for $7k+.
| For something relatively recent and in good working order,
| much higher. Also, don't forget building a dry place to stack
| and store all of it!
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Why has it become more expensive?
| Taek wrote:
| I know nothing about farming but there's a global
| manufacturing shortage right now that is making new parts
| and new machines scarce, which puts a lot of pressure on
| the used parts market. I'm guessing there's not much
| special here and that it's just participating in the
| global trend.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I wonder if any of the price pressure is due to people
| seeking old older equipment to avoid the DRM crap from
| John Deere.
| bbarnett wrote:
| More advice, make sure the off gassing of green hay,
| doesn't blow up the barn!
|
| (My grandma was blown up, a story she loved to retell when
| I was a child... "Did you know I was blown up? Threw me 50
| feet from the barn!")
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| > Also, don't forget building a dry place to stack and
| store all of it!
|
| Would Romanian haystacks help? Or is it impossible to do it
| on a large scale without a large amount of manual labor?
| Can you just drape a tarp over each hay bale?
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Tarps are expensive, and hay bales are comparatively
| inexpensive.
|
| That said, I've seen farmers use old billboards as tarps
| in the past. Otherwise, it's usually either a barn or a
| plastic sheeting.
| vidanay wrote:
| I guess that's good for me. My last cutting ever was last
| Saturday. We are moving and all the equipment will be sold
| in the spring (or sold with the property.) Located in N.
| Illinois.
| bradleyankrom wrote:
| Would be interested in learning more about the property
| you're selling ... the wife & I have been looking around
| Northern Illinois (she's from Rockford) for a small farm.
| My email is in my bio.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > For instance, only two entries in the entire state of Oregon.
|
| And both of those entries appear to in fact be in Nebraska.
| zeckalpha wrote:
| I was expecting this to be a pun about making hay, but was
| delighted by what I found instead.
| ch33zer wrote:
| Slightly off topic: different areas use very different kinds of
| hay bales. The Oregon seems to use bale's while Idaho, Wyoming,
| and Colorado seem to mostly use rolled bale's. I have no idea why
| this would be but it's what I noticed on a recent cross country
| bike ride (I had a lot of time to stare at hay bales)
| zikduruqe wrote:
| It is because the USDA determined that cattle were not getting
| a square meal. <Ba da dum, tiss.>
|
| I'll go annoy my kids now.
| billpg wrote:
| Hay there.
|
| (I'll get my coat.)
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Thought this was going to be about Hayes modems
| lettergram wrote:
| Haha I have some hay in TN. Guess I'll throw it up here
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| This is freaking beautiful. The internet could have been like
| this.
|
| I'm going to show my Mom, she is always wanting to find good hay.
|
| Perhaps a bit more info though like pics would be good haha. Some
| indication of the quality.
| ridaj wrote:
| > Perhaps a bit more info though like pics would be good haha.
| Some indication of the quality.
|
| Maybe some value-added services like transportation, credit,
| and insurance too? Oh and a seller and buyer reputation system
| so you know you're not getting stiffed. A convenient IoT button
| to reorder hay without opening the computer. Ads, to pay for
| the servers. An app to know where your hay's at?
|
| Nah you and I know all that bullshit ends up getting gamed with
| meager user benefit. Surely at some point even this gets up on
| freaking Amazon or Etsy or "eHay" but until then here's the
| sound of a creaky dude pouring one out for the old Craigslist-
| style BBS out there. Make it last and fuck the VCs.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Indeed. Sometimes the LACK of information or streamlined
| systems is the feature. It keeps things simple and flexible.
|
| I need hay and you have the right kind in my region.
|
| Okay let's have a _conversation_ and figure it out.
| datalus wrote:
| > The internet could have been like this.
|
| It still can and like others have said it does exist in some
| places. I mean this site is an example, right? :)
| renewiltord wrote:
| "I wish 2006 Camrys were for sale and everyone would buy them",
| says man who only ever buys the latest car.
| Dangeranger wrote:
| > The internet could have been like this.
|
| The internet _was_ like this. It took twenty years for us to
| fuck it up, it will probably take another twenty to fix it.
| Alex3917 wrote:
| > The internet could have been like this.
|
| Is it not? I used chipdrop twice this year with reasonably good
| results, and that's pretty similar:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAv8SzB_Aw
|
| (If you haven't seen it, they have probably the best startup
| video since dollar shave.)
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Does she run a large scale farm? These are all dealt in tons /
| hundreds / thousands of bales.
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| I assume you don't have to buy the whole lot, if it is like
| other hay sellers we have known.
| pkulak wrote:
| Big assumption. I've got a couple rabbits, but I'm also not
| gonna waste some farmer's time trying to buy 20 pounds of
| hay.
|
| It would be cool though.
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| Looking at the site, most are dealing in large quantities,
| but this guy in Kentucky will deliver your mother a small
| square Teff bale for $5.
|
| http://www.hayexchange.com/display_detail_hay.php?id=295584
| samstave wrote:
| HAAAAAAAY-There.com?
| supermatt wrote:
| you dont need a large scale farm to use tons or hundreds of
| bales.
|
| 3 horses will eat ~350kg medium round bale in a week. 3 cows
| will eat slightly faster than that. 12 goats/sheep will eat a
| bale a week. They will eat more in cold weather (over 30%
| more in winter from my experience) or when producing milk.
|
| 1 medium round bale is about 15 square bales. 1 big round
| bale is about 2x medium bale. I'm not sure about big square
| bales, but id guess about the same as a big round.
|
| You would expect around 15% wastage in a decent feeder. Youre
| also going to discard some hay due to it not being of
| consistent quality, etc. Its also quite common to discard the
| first "layer" of many round bales if they have been
| weathered/stored incorrectly - especially when using as horse
| feed.
|
| That said - my understanding is that these sellers have that
| total quantity to sell. You will likely be able to buy small
| quantities. Some people go and pick up their hay weekly from
| producers as they dont have suitable storage.
|
| EDIT: Weights vary - the weights given above are about
| average from my experience, but vary depending on moisture
| content, types of grass, how tightly the bale has been
| compacted, etc.
| [deleted]
| booleandilemma wrote:
| _The internet could have been like this_
|
| The fact that this site exists means the internet _is_ like
| this. It 's this, and more.
|
| It's not the internet's fault that people choose the same 5
| websites to visit every day.
| [deleted]
| bbarnett wrote:
| How the hell did you know this?! Get _out of my mind!_
| 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
| "it's not the internet's fault that people choose the same 5
| websites to visit every day"
|
| A person visiting the same five websites every day is not
| itself a problem. Each person could choose a different set of
| five websites.
|
| However when so many people choose the same five websites
| every day, for whatever reason, then what we have seen is
| that those five websites begin to actively manipulate
| traffic, through whatever means necessary (including
| acquisition of other websites) to maintain their
| "popularity". Generally, the only way they can make money is
| advertising since they offer nothing of value. They are
| merely intermediaries with the intent to serve ads. "Portals"
| with heavy surveillance and data collection.
|
| Amazon, after it has killing anyone's dreams of an internet
| with competitive e-commerce, has transitioned to web hosting.
| More manipualtion of traffic and data collection. Advertising
| is next, no doubt.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| The internet _is_ like this. I used Discogs to sell (most of)
| my old vinyl records. I bought 100 record-sized boxes, and used
| them all. Also bought a few CDs. Their database seems to have
| virtually every edition from every country of every record ever
| sold.
|
| Sometimes people would ask for photos, and I'd supply them.
| Discogs has a ratings guide, so I could describe the quality
| accurately.
|
| The people who bought them were overwhelmingly nice (with just
| a couple exceptions).
| Ansil849 wrote:
| What does it mean that lots of the hay is listed as not being
| "tested"?
| User23 wrote:
| Maybe for pathogens or type of plant?[1]
|
| [1] https://extension.psu.edu/tall-fescue-potential-problem-
| for-...
| floren wrote:
| Testing for nutrient quantity. The quality of hay can vary
| hugely based on soil, weather, and other factors.
| [deleted]
| uorfyujfl wrote:
| you bitch
| luma wrote:
| As a city slicker who understands nothing of modern agriculture,
| can I get an explanation of what is going on here?
| glup wrote:
| Similarly naive follow-up: how much hay is needed per animal
| per month, assuming no other sources of food? (or does one
| always provide hay plus something else?)
| colechristensen wrote:
| Of course it varies by quite a lot. But 2% of body weight per
| day is in the area.
|
| And what you feed is based on nutrition, cost, availability,
| and the specifics of your operation. It can be all one thing
| for a while, but there's usually more of a strategy to it.
| RDaneel0livaw wrote:
| The answer to this also depends a lot on the ambient outdoors
| temperature. Horses can stay warm through the winter outside
| in almost any weather (down to single digits F easily). But
| in order to do so, they use their GI system like a furnace.
| So they basically are CONSTANTLY eating and pooping. So the
| colder it gets the more they eat.
| walrus01 wrote:
| People buy hay for their cattle to eat. See dropdown menu for
| products, this is one large dealer:
|
| https://www.anderson-hay.com/
|
| If you visit the area where that company is located you can see
| many full length flatbed semi truck trailers entirely covered
| in hay bales.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Fields are planted with things grazing animals like to eat then
| mowed, the plants are dried and baled and can be stored for a
| long time to feed animals when needed.
|
| It's not really a commodity product like grains so the producer
| and consumer are much more likely to deal directly with one
| another.
|
| These are classified ads for cow food.
| cracell wrote:
| Is this because middlemen take too big of a cut?
|
| I work for an agricultural company that does a decent amount
| of hay sales as a middle man but I'm not too familiar with
| that part of the business.
| colechristensen wrote:
| I think it's also that middlemen can't do much to add any
| value. Transport is quite expensive due to low density so
| you usually purchase local and the finished product is
| ready literally in the field, there is no amount of
| packaging or processing to be done, just moving.
| cmclaughlin wrote:
| > These are classified ads for cow food.
|
| I was talking to a friend about this recently... he was
| stressing out about rain on his hay piles. He said cows will
| eat just about anything - even hay that's been rained on. But
| other animals, such as horses, are more picky and need
| specialized feed.
|
| Just FYI as I found that interesting
| AngryData wrote:
| Horses have a fairly delicate stomachs, you only really
| want to feed them the first and second cuttings of hay
| because later cuttings are too rich with alfalfa and lack
| the fiber from weeds and grasses and give them the shits.
| Cows however can eat basically any green plant matter and
| the later hay cuttings are packed with nutrients.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| I love this about HN. I come from where everyone understands
| hay, and it's good for me to see that a) someone would not
| understand what a hay exchange is, and b) that someone will
| explain it simply and clearly to them. Everything about this
| is a good interaction.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Why isn't it a commodity?
| colechristensen wrote:
| Price per volume is considerably lower than grain, material
| handling is much more complex (grain is essentially a
| fluid), it doesn't store as well as grain, it has far fewer
| uses and users, it isn't very standardized: bale size and
| type, what plants go into the bales, quality changes over
| time, seasonality, weather sensitivity... etc.
| cmclaughlin wrote:
| > Why isn't it a commodity
|
| From a friend - in recent years draught conditions in
| California have reduced hay production
| mawise wrote:
| IANAFarmer: Grazing animals like horses and cows need to eat
| something over the winter. You can plant fields of grass and
| harvest them into hay bales for storage. If you aren't devoting
| any/enough of your land as hay fields, then you need to buy hay
| from someone else.
| ahmedfromtunis wrote:
| I read/watched some long time ago that for the majority of
| farmers wanting to provide hay for their animals, it makes no
| economic sens to grow their own.
|
| This means that most of the hay being consumed is purchased
| somewhere else.
| silisili wrote:
| Confused by this comment - any more detail?
|
| My father had a small farm(20ish acres) with cattle, as did
| a lot of people in the area at the time. There wasn't
| really a cost for hay outside of time and equipment up
| front(which isn't a lot), they just let the grass grow, cut
| it, let it sit, hit it with tines, bale it, etc.
|
| Are you saying it's not efficient, and a full efficiency
| farm would use said grassland for crops instead? I can see
| that, but then where do the cattle roam?
| ahmedfromtunis wrote:
| This is not the original source (was it a planet money
| episode? I really can't remember), but here's what I
| found:
|
| > You also may want to compare the costs of purchasing
| hay with producing your own hay. In some markets, it may
| be cheaper to buy someone else's hay and use your own
| forage for additional grazing. Finally, knowing your
| harvesting costs is critical for a custom operator who
| wants to be profitable over the long haul.
|
| Source:
| https://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/facilities-
| equipmen...
| silisili wrote:
| Thanks(to both of you, but only replying once).
|
| I completely forgot we had to cordon off areas for a time
| to let grow, and rotate.
|
| It totally makes sense to me now - this is essentially
| about being able to raise more head per acre, since you'd
| have more grazing area at any time.
| mason55 wrote:
| Maybe it's more efficient if you use all the grass for
| grazing in summer then buy hay in winter, vs letting some
| grass grow to use for hay later?
| [deleted]
| codazoda wrote:
| There's a small (5 acres maybe) field by me where the
| farmer keeps horses. He moves the horses from one half of
| the field to the other and grows hay in the opposite side.
| I see him cut it down and bale it about twice a year. Looks
| like it's pretty self sustaining. I've never stopped to
| talk to the owner about it.
| ahmedfromtunis wrote:
| > Alfalfa hay is an excellent source of good quality protein and
| fiber. [0]
|
| From a nutritional perspective, is consuming beef more efficient
| than directly consuming a dish cooked with these plants?
|
| [0]: https://www.anderson-hay.com/alfalfa-hay
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Though it does have a relatively high amount of protein for
| plant material, most of alfalfa hay (and all hay, for that
| matter) is still cellulose, which people cannot digest and cows
| can (thanks to their symbiotic gut bacteria).
|
| Feeding _grain_ to cattle is pretty inefficient, because people
| can eat grain directly, but hay not so much.
| mhb wrote:
| How come the wanted section isn't filtered by state?
| fouc wrote:
| Love the simple design! Made me think of craigslist
| flatline wrote:
| The link for New Mexico takes me to South Dakota, further
| evidence that New Mexico is not a state.
| unixhero wrote:
| Reminds me of the game drugwars
| codeulike wrote:
| But hay is usually very local, yes? Because it's hard to
| transport it a long way. So normally a farmer puts a sign by the
| road saying 'hay for sale' and people in the local area buy/sell
| it to each other as needed. Under what circumstances would you
| need to get hay from a long way away?
|
| Are there specialist Hays?
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| You can live just miles away from a farm and never drive past
| it. I don't get the cross state lines sales but this seems like
| a reasonable replacement for a one line ad in the weekly
| paper/notice at the bottle shop.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| > But hay is usually very local, yes? Because it's hard to
| transport it a long way.
|
| Not necessarily. It's not at all unheard of to truck large
| loads of hay several states away.
| oflannabhra wrote:
| Yes, there are. Bale shape determines some characteristics of
| the hay, and While the majority of hay is cut for and consumed
| by cows, horse hay is another matter. As horses are far more
| expensive animals, higher quality hay can fetch a premium. And
| while generally hay is produced and consumed locally, I know of
| several folks that ship several thousand bales across multiple
| states.
| troymc wrote:
| Here in Saskatchewan, it was unusually dry this year, so the
| amount of hay was way less than normal. I heard figures like
| 10% to 20% of normal in some areas. As a result, the price of
| hay went way up, and some people are getting hay from as far
| away as Ontario. Also, there was an increase in hay bale theft.
| The thieves typically come to steal the bales in the middle of
| the night.
| VWWHFSfQ wrote:
| This is the case in the northwestern areas of USA also.
| Washington, Idaho, Montana areas. Hay production has been
| down so the scarcity/prices have gone up. And that also means
| more theft.
|
| The farmers/ranchers are allowed to shoot the wolves that eat
| their cows, but they can't shoot the hay thieves! So they
| just grumble and make Uncle Sam pay for it.
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