[HN Gopher] I'm putting a WiFi router into a wall charger
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I'm putting a WiFi router into a wall charger
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2021-10-27 10:18 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (machinehum.medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (machinehum.medium.com)
        
       | cunidev wrote:
       | > I ended up choosing the Allwinner A33; it's an older MPU that
       | came out in 2014. Tablet manufacturers used it in their Android
       | devices, and since Android uses Linux, we should get good
       | mainline support.
       | 
       | Not quite. Mainlining ARM chips tend to be a demanding task, and
       | the not-so-widespread A33 is still a work in progress
        
         | megous wrote:
         | Looks well enough supported, looking at the DT files in Linux.
        
         | afandian wrote:
         | Do yo know why this is the case? Due to integrated peripherals?
         | Or is there something particularly incompatible about the ARM
         | architecture?
        
           | bravetraveler wrote:
           | I think there's a fair amount of ARM that's different about
           | each implementation.
           | 
           | eg: early boot - initialization of hardware is timing/order
           | dependent
        
           | cunidev wrote:
           | ARM SoCs are complex and often undocumented to anyone outside
           | the company making them. The arch is fine, but many drivers
           | are needed e.g. for clocks (and a lot of reversing has to be
           | done). Having said that, downstream (Android) kernel will
           | probably be fine for a simple use case such as this
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | blacksmith_tb wrote:
       | I have one of these travel routers[1] which I have always thought
       | would easily be seen as old POTS RJ-11 telephone jack if it was
       | spraypainted beige.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt300n/
        
       | proxysna wrote:
       | > Drop one of these in a Mcdonald's, and nobody's going to expect
       | a thing. You can leave it for days, while it collects data and
       | marshals it back to your home network.
       | 
       | brave assumptions. it's will be gone in 30 minutes.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | Was thinking the same thing. Leaving stuff in public that
         | resemble known consumer electronics will guarantee they perform
         | disappearing acts ASAP.
         | 
         | Ideally, you'd want something firmly attached to a wall,
         | something that looks industrial/enterprisey, like it's an
         | important part of the building alarm, water, power, HVAC or
         | network system. Then people won't fuck with it.
         | 
         | And when you're installing it, wear a brightly coloured safety
         | vest, helmet, badge, clipboard, safety boots and a tool belt
         | around your waist. That way you look super official and nobody
         | will question you and I just made this stuff up, no guarantee
         | that it'll work IRL :)
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | The police on my city arrested this week 3 people that stole
           | ~4tons of cable, on daylight, in crowded streets.
           | 
           | They did exactly that. Got a very visible vest, with a
           | company logo, closed part of the walkway, and dig the cables
           | without anybody suspecting anything.
        
           | Wulf_ wrote:
           | :( it's the second time today I've read the 'F' word on HN. I
           | usually don't encounter it here which makes me like this
           | community more.
           | 
           | I'm not a leader of this community so my opinion doesn't
           | matter but as a fellow human I'd like to request that you use
           | another word to express yourself. I know this is subjective
           | but I wanted to share this with you. In any case, I hope you
           | have a good day :)
        
             | a1369209993 wrote:
             | Die in a fire, politically-correct scum.
        
             | folkhack wrote:
             | Cursing is pretty common on here. Just re-read the
             | guidelines and there's no rules against inappropriate
             | language like the "f-word"... Especially when considering
             | such a benign usage as the parent comment, ie: just
             | replacing the verb in "mess with" which is not targeting
             | the language at anyone/anything.
             | 
             | It may not be as common as other platforms, but casual
             | conversation does happen here which includes the occasional
             | curse word.
             | 
             | Just trying to inform - I'm sorry you're sensitive to it.
        
           | Deinos wrote:
           | Agreed. I was thinking something like a GFCI Outlet Tester
           | would have a better chance of sticking around... Make it seem
           | like the electrician forgot to retrieve it but will be back
           | for it in a few.
        
           | proxysna wrote:
           | Anything that looks like it is attached to wall or just
           | hidden from eyes, will have a lot more chances to avoid being
           | stolen/reported.
           | 
           | When i see one of the usb outlets with exposed screws in
           | public the only thing that comes to mind is to partially
           | disassemble the oulet and power the device from it leaving
           | the device inside. There is much less of a chance that
           | someone will report a partially malfunctioning USB outlet
           | than someone snatching a free power brick.
           | 
           | Never done anything like that with a public outlet, did
           | something similiar with my personal hardware.
           | 
           | Regarding size, Lichee Pi [0] comes to mind.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.licheepizero.us/
        
         | blamarvt wrote:
         | Now, put it in a case like [1] this with USB pass-through and
         | slap a "Property of McDonalds IT" sticker on it and I'm
         | guessing you could keep it there for longer...
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.allelectronics.com/item/actx-1620/16-vac-20-va-w...
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | c'mon epoxy the thing to the outlet
        
         | EastOfTruth wrote:
         | Are you saying that you need to hide a USB thumb-drive in a
         | wall charger instead?
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Order two game theoretic trick: fake a main socket device that
         | is in fact a battery powered sniffing tool. Robber may
         | willingly carry that thing in his home.
        
       | allo37 wrote:
       | It reminds me a bit of an Orange Pi Zero:
       | http://www.orangepi.org/orangepizero/
       | 
       | Cool project! I'm always impressed with people who have the
       | patience to design their own MPU-based boards.
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | There's a TP-Link WR810N, that looks quite a lot like a knockoff
       | Mac charger. Can run OpenWRT, though a lot less well equipped
       | than the device in the linked article.
       | 
       | https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/tl-wr...
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | I use their updated version, advertised as a travel router. It
         | is pretty small and I carry it while traveling.
         | 
         | https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/tl-wr...
         | 
         | The 1st Gen Apple Airport Express, with the wall plug, was once
         | a good option.
        
           | andrew_ wrote:
           | I use them (AirPort 1st gen) for a printer access point to
           | enable wireless printing. Unfortunately they can't act as a
           | wireless bridge due to hardware limitations and need to be
           | hardwired to a network to function.
        
           | mobilio wrote:
           | AAE it's different because uses Broadcom chipsets.
           | 
           | That TP-Links are running on Athreos and later on MediaTek.
           | 
           | Difference - Broadcom drivers are old and for old Linux
           | versions (like 2.4 or 2.6).
        
         | sowbug wrote:
         | I have a couple OpenWRT configurations that I used to use with
         | the 703N to turn it into specific plug-and-play appliances:
         | https://github.com/sowbug/703n.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if they'd work with this model, but I hope they're
         | helpful.
        
       | gabkins wrote:
       | Why assume that it will not go missing? People will probably get
       | it and tinker with it at home. Some might throw it away outside
       | of the establishment.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Right. The author mentions McDonald's as a site: I'd assume
         | Starbucks or another coffee shop is probably a better one,
         | since more people bring laptops there to work. Does a wall
         | charger last more than a day plugged in at a Starbucks location
         | before getting stolen or, at the very least, removed during
         | cleaning?
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort_Express#/media/File:Ap...
       | 
       | Could be configured as a router, access point to extend a
       | network, or could join a network wirelessly and then bridge
       | devices on the LAN to it. Also had optical audio out. Really
       | remarkable little device considering it came out in like 2004.
        
       | deeblering4 wrote:
       | > Drop one of these in a Mcdonald's, and nobody's going to expect
       | a thing. You can leave it for days, while it collects data and
       | marshals it back to your home network.
       | 
       | Haven't you seen the 90s Hollywood smash hit 'hackers' starring
       | Angelina Jolie? Never hack from you home network, it's
       | universally stupid man!
        
         | nikon wrote:
         | You don't hack a bank across state lines from your house,
         | you'll get nailed by the FBI. Where are your brains, in your
         | ass? Don't you know anything?
        
           | keville wrote:
           | Okay, the quote is spot-on, sure; but the username? This is
           | just surreal.
        
             | Enginerrrd wrote:
             | Except it was phreak that said it wasn't it?
        
               | keville wrote:
               | You're correct, but still, a suspiciously-accurate
               | username for the quote-poster!
        
               | phreack wrote:
               | Now I want to post a Nikon quote. You're in the butter
               | zone now, baby!
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | It's stupid, man, it's universally stupid.
        
         | swalsh wrote:
         | This movie is how I learned not to store my meta mask mnemonic
         | in a file named "junk"
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | i thought it was the trash file
        
             | ruined wrote:
             | yeah, garbage, okay, give me garbage
        
       | rexreed wrote:
       | Why as a wall wart? Odds of discovery and removal are high.
       | 
       | Instead fit it into a lightbulb form factor, and replace a
       | lightblub in the restroom. Or you can be SUPER brave and fit it
       | into a wall outlet form factor and replace the whole outlet /
       | receptacle.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | SavantIdiot wrote:
         | Make it look like a hubble-twist-lock that a 120VAC standard
         | 15A recepticle accepts. No one would suspect. Scuff it up and
         | make it dirty. Bingo.
        
         | adfm wrote:
         | Here's one I made years ago that found its way into a patent
         | application or two.
         | 
         | https://boingboing.net/2003/05/14/wifi-nightlight.html
        
         | waltbosz wrote:
         | I've heard of electricians who will change a live receptical. I
         | even found this video exhibition
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | Interesting. I would be inclined to attach ground and neutral
           | first, though. That seems to be the algorithm for all manner
           | of connectors (UK plugs interfacing with outlets, USB, SATA,
           | etc. -- they all make sure ground makes contact before power
           | or data).
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Devices connect ground first because if there's a fault
             | when something else connects, they want to be able to send
             | the power to ground.
             | 
             | I think his plan was the opposite: to _avoid_ having a path
             | to ground, in the case his body was part of that path.
        
               | jrockway wrote:
               | Isn't your body the best path to ground when the outlet
               | isn't grounded?
               | 
               | I kind of see what he's up to, though. Basically, if you
               | touch the hot wire, or one of the screws that it's
               | attached to, you probably get shocked. That is
               | unavoidable; turn off the power before starting work to
               | minimize your risk. (The risk is, of course, never zero,
               | so do be careful even if you're sure the power is off.)
               | 
               | If you connect neutral first and then hot, you still get
               | shocked if you touch the hot wire... but you also short
               | out if the hot wire that you're screwing to the terminal
               | touches the neutral (or ground) wire. That will cause the
               | circuit breaker to open (or failing that, a fire),
               | defeating the purpose of working on an energized system.
               | So I guess this procedure is optimized for uptime, at an
               | increased risk of death.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | I think that is also likely, but I was thinking along the
               | lines of: yes, your body is the best path to ground when
               | the outlet isn't grounded, but, [hot > body > your shoes
               | > floor] is higher resistance than [hot > body >
               | neutral/ground]
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | Many electricians will do this if needed. My brother-in-law
           | gets shocked with 110v on a regular basis, and doesn't really
           | mind anymore. I don't think many would work on a hot 240v
           | circuit, though.
        
             | dilyevsky wrote:
             | I've been accidentally zapped by 110 and 220 and former
             | feels like a tickle compared to latter which was seriously
             | painful
        
             | Spare_account wrote:
             | UK (230V) here, I've observed electricians working on live
             | circuits frequently. That's why tools like this exist,
             | 'safe' for working up to 1000V:
             | 
             | https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/
             | 
             | Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have
             | replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in
             | my home without flipping the breakers
        
               | laurent92 wrote:
               | At least please don't be seen by kids. They might believe
               | it's nothing.
        
               | newaccount74 wrote:
               | I've accidentally touched 230V a few times. It happened
               | when I thought I turned off power but I didn't. (which is
               | why you should short live and ground after turning off
               | power to make sure it is actually turned off)
        
               | sbierwagen wrote:
               | I did commercial lighting for a few years.
               | Relamp/reballast or LED retrofits are almost always done
               | during business hours, with the lights on. Big lighting
               | systems usually run at 277V. (Phase-to-neural voltage of
               | 480V three-phase)
               | 
               | I would much rather work on a hot 277V lighting fixture
               | than a 120V wall socket. Much more room to work, wire
               | gauge is way thinner. The downside is that you're always
               | on a ladder, so a big shock is comes with a ten foot fall
               | as a free bonus. If I'm touching anything inside a wall,
               | the breaker is getting flipped.
        
               | ISL wrote:
               | > Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have
               | replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches
               | in my home without flipping the breakers
               | 
               | The consequences at hand make working with even house-
               | voltage electricity a "wicked learning environment" [1].
               | The first time you get things wrong may be lethal,
               | without the opportunity to learn from experience.
               | 
               | Please consider turning the power off the next time you
               | do electrical work. I don't know you, but I still care
               | whether or not you get zapped :).
               | 
               | [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-
               | studio/20...
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | "Despite being told I was doing something stupid over and
               | over again, I continued to do that stupid thing."
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Yes? Do you have anything more to say?
               | 
               | The egg safety standards in the US and EU come to mind.
               | Each standard considers the other standard to be so
               | unsafe it must be _banned_. But they 're both fine.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | They are both fine, but probably dangerous to have
               | _mixed_.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | That's not ' _why_ ' they exist, (at least, that's not my
               | understanding, or why I have a set) it's not easy to not
               | touch anything with anything else, but it's a nice
               | safeguard while poking about somewhere you _think_ is
               | made safe.
               | 
               | What I haven't seen (and don't know why?) is a VDE
               | screwdriver in the neon/LED voltage detection style.
               | 
               | Personally I even isolate lighting circuits to change a
               | bulb. It almost certainly wouldn't be a problem if I
               | didn't, but it's so easy, why not.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | A residential voltage electric shock has a low probability
             | of killing you, but each one has that probability, and some
             | day you may be unlucky.
             | 
             | Knowing how to move around the wire will further reduce the
             | probability, so you can indeed learn to improve your odds.
             | But still, each shock carries that probability (and it's
             | much higher than the things we consider common, like
             | driving a car in a high-speed road). How many times are you
             | ok with putting your life at risk?
             | 
             | One should better avoid working on live wires. If you can't
             | avoid, there are gear and safety procedures that may save
             | your life, uncomfortable as they are. There is no reason
             | for getting shocked all the time.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > How many times are you ok with putting your life at
               | risk?
               | 
               | That's not the right question to ask. If it was that
               | black and white then you'd never get in a car.
        
             | hansel_der wrote:
             | confirm from experience: 240V is no joking matter, but it's
             | not _that_ dangerous either (otherwise it would be higher)
        
               | rpmisms wrote:
               | As long as 110 doesn't go through your chest, it's
               | probably fine. I've had 110 through my chest and I was
               | fine. 240 through your chest is a lot scarier.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | Macbooks (since the 'unibody' aluminium design)
               | infamously pass a little stray current through the
               | chassis, even earthed in the UK. It's quite unpleasant if
               | I rest my hand between laptop and desktop keyboard
               | (laptop sometimes to the side) touching both, like a
               | steadily warming burn.
               | 
               | Hardly compares to the shock (pun intended) I got when I
               | happened to touch the long-'tingly' light switch at the
               | same time as another well-earthed one through the door
               | though.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | How can you leave that 'in a McDonalds for days'? I bet it would
       | be nicked within the hour (by someone thinking it's just a
       | charger).
        
         | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
         | perfect, get a whole bunch and we'll have potentially compiled
         | a network of thieves without their knowledge
         | 
         | do you think enough people are opportunistically malicious to
         | form a reliable mesh network of jerks?
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Perhaps a wall-plug air-freshener form factor would last
         | longer?
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | Even better (or worse?) hide it behind the faceplate, a
           | little more work but certainly better hidden! Just turn up in
           | a yellow jacket, official looking lanyard and tools...
        
             | fennecfoxen wrote:
             | The (discontinued) Aruba AP-65 WB did this. It was
             | originally targeted at hospitality applications (hotels
             | etc), where the stealth factor deters tampering:
             | 
             | https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/29557041/aruba-
             | ap65wb...
             | 
             | They did it as a 2-gang but you could surely do smaller.
        
             | Maximus9000 wrote:
             | or make it look like a blank wall faceplate on the consumer
             | facing side, but on the other side it has a plug in to get
             | power. Ideally, no tools are required to "install" it.
             | 
             | To consumers, it should look like this:
             | https://www.homedepot.ca/product/leviton-1-gang-midway-
             | nylon...
        
               | xsmasher wrote:
               | There are nightlights that are normal switchplates on the
               | front, with springy connectors on the back that get power
               | from the screws on the side of the light switch.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Single-SnapPower-SwitchLight-
               | Built-Am...
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | Don't forget to bring a clipboard.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | You laugh, but when I was in graduate school working long
               | hours, if I needed a break from the PhD's who controlled
               | me, I would go to a random building with a clipboard and
               | one other item (flashlight, red pen, sometimes just a
               | stick) and find a dark room to hide/sleep in. No one asks
               | you questions if you have a clipboard and something else
               | that makes them assume you know what you're doing.
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | Coincidentally I just got an el-cheapo one, that bar the
           | quite obvious antennas and blinking leds is a "direct plugin"
           | (as your typical air freshener), the thingy is sold
           | everywhere with different brands but the origin should be
           | this[0], the nice thing is that it has the plug that can be
           | rotated 90 degrees so it is good for both horizontal and
           | vertical sockets.
           | 
           | [0] http://www.pix-link.com/page50?product_id=144
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | A little better version of that pdf:
             | https://www.4gon.co.uk/documents/aruba_ap65wb_datasheet.pdf
        
           | ectopod wrote:
           | I wouldn't steal it but I would unplug it to stop the stink.
           | Air fresheners do not.
        
         | jsight wrote:
         | It depends on the placement of the outlet. I think some are
         | pretty inconspicuous under tables or seats. I bet there are
         | places that wouldn't be noticed for days.
        
       | thejosh wrote:
       | Also https://hak5.org/collections/mischief-
       | gadgets/products/o-mg-... is similar.
        
       | hn_throwaway_69 wrote:
       | I've always wanted to make something like this, but have it
       | connect to a public WiFi network and operate as a VPN server.
       | Thereby allowing fully anonymous internet browsing. One of many
       | challenges would be getting past the captive portal.
       | 
       | This would in practice be violating the terms of service of the
       | WiFi network and possibly also be illegal?
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | > This would in practice be violating the terms of service of
         | the WiFi network and possibly also be illegal?
         | 
         | Probably but you'd have to check the captive portal's TOS
        
       | kawsper wrote:
       | That looks neat, I used to use a ESP8266 to rickroll people that
       | were looking for free WiFi: http://kaspergrubbe.com/esp8266
        
       | jack_pp wrote:
       | Seems a bit large for it to not draw attention
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | With a correctly designed enclosure (chamfered edges, black),
         | it might not look all that suspicious tucked away somewhere
         | charging a phone.
        
           | aetherspawn wrote:
           | You'd be better off putting a battery in it and dropping it
           | under a bin or something.
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | That's going to be _way_ more suspicious that plugging in a
             | phone charger, given the history of bombs being left in
             | trash cans.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | The reason why there's a history of bombs being left in
               | trash cans is because it's easy and discrete.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Which is also why it's suspicious if someone sees you do
               | it. Someone seeing you plug in a phone charger is much
               | less suspicious.
               | 
               | Obviously it's not suspicious if no one sees you do it.
        
         | lanternfish wrote:
         | Not that much larger than those big block laptop adaptors,
         | black injection molding would make it look pretty legit.
        
       | moksly wrote:
       | While I'm unsure how it would pick up anything useful I can
       | certainly see how it would work in an enterprise office.
       | 
       | I've worked in the public sector for decades, and if you left an
       | iPhone charger somewhere in an open office space, it would get
       | used by someone.
       | 
       | Slip a few of those chargers into one of our massive orders for
       | hardware and no one would ever find out.
        
         | alexpotato wrote:
         | Guess everyone has forgotten about Conversnitch, the
         | RaspberryPi based microphone disguised as a lamp:
         | http://vimeo.com/87564506
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | It's amazing to see that the video is from 7 years ago.
           | Within the year the Amazon Echo was released and folks put
           | microphones everywhere.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Echo#History
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Alexa
        
         | i_like_waiting wrote:
         | Yeah, stuxnet type of distribution, you keep few of them around
         | the office "dropped on the pavement" and chance of success is
         | quite high
        
           | dls2016 wrote:
           | I've heard of IT departments who place USB sticks around the
           | building and then send nasty-grams to whoever plugs it into a
           | device on the corporate network. (I don't know exact
           | details.)
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | This was probably more useful in the past but nowadays even
         | local traffic is usually encrypted. All you'd catch is DNS
         | lookups.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-29 23:01 UTC)