[HN Gopher] Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at ...
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Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level
Author : ekin
Score : 130 points
Date : 2021-10-28 16:09 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ekin.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (ekin.substack.com)
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I have always done my best coding with music cranked up to 11. No
| idea why, but the louder the better.
| nyc111 wrote:
| I think, we should not call a conversation we hear "noise", it
| disturbs our focus but it's not noise. Noise has no pattern and
| no meaning. But the most disturbing sound is the sound that
| repeats in fixed intervals. I believe repeating sounds in high
| volume is even used as a form of torture. So airplane noise is
| torture because it's loud and it repeats.
| oldie wrote:
| I find a conversation more distracting if it's relevant to me.
|
| If we _have_ to cram developers into open plan offices then
| each feature team should be dispersed throughout the building,
| so that the discussions each person overhears are less relevant
| to the person overhearing them.
|
| Contrarian, or what? :-)
| alberth wrote:
| Isn't it as simple as: to concentrate well - you need to remove
| distractions. Too much noise is distracting but, having zero
| noise is also distracting because inevitable something will cause
| noise and your attention will be drawn to it.
|
| Hence why white noise is so effective because it's the middle of
| these two things.
| [deleted]
| Focalise wrote:
| This is why I built noisify.xyz
| LegitShady wrote:
| This article doesn't seem to have corroborating scientific
| evidence.
| Focalise wrote:
| This is why I built https://noisify.xyz (for myself mainly)
| mdp2021 wrote:
| You should really use a crossfading version of the sample.
| Focalise wrote:
| Fair point, I'll swap it in.
| sbmthakur wrote:
| This was true for Von Neumann:
|
| _Von Neumann did some of his best work in noisy, chaotic
| environments, and once admonished his wife for preparing a quiet
| study for him to work in. He never used it, preferring the couple
| 's living room with its television playing loudly._
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann
| taylorius wrote:
| I think some background noise reduces distractions, because it
| causes our noticing apparatus to raise it's alert threshold, and
| we no longer notice every tiny micro-noise.
| bumbada wrote:
| It depends on where you are raised.
|
| I need to make deals in cities like New York, or London or Paris,
| Frankfurt, or Madrid.
|
| At buildings, specially hotels in those cities there is a
| constant hum, low level noise all the time that is specially
| present when you need to sleep.
|
| People that are raised in cities are hearing this sound all the
| time. I was raised outside them so for me this sound is alien but
| for those people it means "home".
|
| It was incredible being in Paris or Madrid center with COVID and
| hearing birds as background instead of road sounds.
|
| I need birds or sea waves or tree leaves sounds in order to work
| and focus. Cars or air blowers sounds are really distracting for
| me.
| anonu wrote:
| Having worked on a trading floor: noise is all around you:
| whether its people shouting at each other or the non-stop drone
| of CNBC in the background.
|
| I can say that the former was always very distracting but the
| latter was always welcome and did boost productivity and focus.
| amatecha wrote:
| Hilarious to see this as I'm loudly listening to music many
| people would probably classify as "noise" ([0]) ... I've always
| found that highly dynamic music really helps me focus and somehow
| really "get into the zone", particularly when programming. I've
| noticed over the years that the mental stimulation that occurs is
| pretty substantial. Even music with lyrics/vocals, I don't find
| it distracting. I'd say it allows the ability to tune out
| "outside world" stuff and, like someone said above, feel
| comfortable that interruptions and distractions are not going to
| occur. I can simply be present and not thinking ahead/back about
| unrelated things.
|
| [0] https://accesstoarasaka.bandcamp.com/album/port
| ladyattis wrote:
| For me, it's not so much noise but temperature and air freshness.
| I don't know why but if the stale is a tad too stale in my home
| office I just get distracted and can't focus well so I wind up
| opening the window before starting work so I can freshen the air
| and then close it to minimize the amount of city noises from
| creeping in. But I'll also say sound is important as well. It's
| why I like having a more clicky keyboard although my office mates
| are probably frustrated by my preference. A little bit of noise
| in the background is nice whereas full-on chatter pretty much
| puts my work to a stop.
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| Have you ever tried to monitor your CO2 levels? I thought it
| was all about temperature until I got one and learned that my
| home office climbs up to 2500 ppm.
|
| At this level, it creates: "Fatigue, loss of focus and
| concentration, uncomfortable 'stuffy' feeling in the air"
| oldie wrote:
| 2500ppm? Good grief.
|
| I notice a slight blunting of my mental edge at about
| 1000ppm. I always maintain enough ventilation to keep below
| about 800ppm. I don't guess; I monitor.
|
| At work, in our delapidated office, I've seen up to 1800ppm
| by lunchtime. No wonder no one can concentrate in there.
|
| It's not cheap, but you can buy heat-recovery ventilation for
| domestic properties: stale air is pumped out, fresh air is
| pumped in, and there's a heat-exchanger to warm the incoming
| air. Typically, air is extracted from rooms such as kitchens,
| bathrooms and toilets (so that you expel moisture, smoke and
| odours) and pumped into living spaces such as lounges, dining
| rooms and bedrooms. It doesn't provide enough air changes per
| hour to mitigate the danger from Covid-19, but it does do
| enough to keep CO2 levels down where you want them, and it
| avoids arguments with people who want to close all the
| windows and doors because they "don't like a draught".
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| I was really hoping for an in-depth discussion of noise within
| the brain. Then I was really hoping for an in-depth discussion of
| how and why certain kinds of noise may be helpful, in both
| creativity and/or maintaining focus. Its not that I disagree with
| anything that was written, but I really was hoping for something
| whose tldr didn't amount to: bad noise bad, good noise good.
| rosstex wrote:
| This article does everything except actually answering the
| question in the title.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| It's like a recipe blog, but for half-baked musings
| 1cvmask wrote:
| Clearly more noise than signal from the author.
| ninjinxo wrote:
| I think it may be a GPT3 blog:
|
| > _Noise is necessary for our brains to function in an orderly
| fashion. In the book The Signal and the Noise, Nate Silver says
| that "The signal is the truth. The noise is what distracts us
| from the truth."7 Andrew Smart adds that "there are many
| circumstances in which the addition of the right amount of
| noise actually boosts the signal." So within the randomness of
| the noise, we can achieve greater creativity as the randomness
| of evolution brings the best out of humans._
| jcun4128 wrote:
| Hmm imagine a GTP3 based VTuber on YT that used a random
| character generator
| anonu wrote:
| I like the thought. The article is not very coherent, you're
| right... But it did fool me.
| munificent wrote:
| I've worked in private offices, cubicles, open plan offices,
| coffeeshops, libraries, and now many many hours in home both when
| other family members are around and when they aren't. I spend a
| lot of time thinking about sound and focus.
|
| The conclusion I came to is that humans have a few emotional
| needs in order to reach deep focus:
|
| 1. We need to not be distracted and we need to feel certainty
| that we _will_ not be distracted. Before we are comfortable
| untaking the work to architect a giant mental castle, we need to
| feel confident that someone won 't come around to kick it down.
|
| 2. At a more primitive, simian level, we need to feel that we're
| in a safe environment. It's hard to focus on code if you're
| worried that a tree is going to fall on you or a lion will drag
| you off into the jungle.
|
| When it comes to sound, those can be opposing. Because we are a
| social species, I think one of the things that makes us feel most
| secure is the _ambient present of a fellow tribe_. To our early
| ancestors, dead silence meant you were alone, and being alone in
| the wilderness was often a death sentence. We instinctively feel
| safest when we hear the chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates
| puttering around nearby. We know we 're not alone, that there are
| others will also be alerted if something happens, and that they
| also feel safe.
|
| But the presence of fellow people can _also_ mean that at any
| moment one of them might wander over and start talking to us. So
| hearing that ambient chatter can make it really hard to focus.
|
| This is, I think, part of why working in a coffeeshop can be so
| effective. You get the sense of safety in numbers, but since they
| are all strangers and at least in the US the social norms go
| against talking to strangers, you know the odds are slim that
| you'll actually be interrupted.
| Uberphallus wrote:
| > we need to feel certainty that we will not be distracted.
|
| This, so, much. Working from home with a young kid around, it
| always feels like something's gonna fall, the cat is gonna
| fight back, mom is gonna get mad at him for some reason, or
| simply he needs me to go play with him. I never know if I have
| 5 minutes or 3 hours.
|
| Nowadays I tend to not work so much during the day as I don't
| have the means to focus, then work into the night.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| Sounds like you guys haven't established any work boundaries.
| It can be impossible if both of you work. But if not....
|
| I've worked at home for about 17 years now. I have a 6 year
| old, two 3 year olds, and my wife is a stay at home mom. I
| don't get interrupted, and there's never been an age range
| where I would regularly get interrupted. At the most
| frequent, maybe once per week. Definitely not even once per
| day though.
| munificent wrote:
| You may have established boundaries, but you almost
| certainly have your wife to thank for 99% of the
| enforcement of them.
| codeduck wrote:
| Was about to say, it's very easy to establish boundaries
| if you have someone enforcing them for you
| [deleted]
| makeitdouble wrote:
| To pile a bit on the parent's take, I think it's just
| hell if none can set boundaries.
|
| During the stay home period it meant for us that everyday
| we scheduled who does 100% work at what time, and who
| takes care of the rest in the meantime (might mean light
| work while looking after things)
|
| That meant switching back and forth the roles about once
| or twice everyday, including when the other needs to cook
| or go to groceries.
|
| In this respect, I think there is just no way to have
| both parents 100% working at home with a kid needing
| attention, and trying to reach that will only make
| everyone miserable.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "Nowadays I tend to not work so much during the day as I
| don't have the means to focus, then work into the night. "
|
| And be nevertheless woken up early in the morning by your
| toddlers ...
| gzer0 wrote:
| This is articulated particularly nicely and captures what I
| have observed myself. Thanks for sharing.
| uptownfunk wrote:
| Is this why I have my best thoughts in the shower?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Personally, I think so. I get the same effect if I'm in the
| hot tub with the jets running. White noise blocks
| distractions pretty well, so my brain can get lost in
| thought.
| rob74 wrote:
| You don't need a shower or hot tub for that, there are
| online noise generators with hundreds of different flavors
| such as https://mynoise.net/ - I prefer music most of the
| time however, the "rain sounds" are so relaxing that they
| make me sleepy...
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Yeah, I use a sound machine at home for sleeping. We
| started with our kids when they were babies, then decided
| we liked having one in our room as well.
|
| Haven't graduated to having one in my office, but maybe I
| should give that a whirl. Though one thing the shower &
| hot tub still have is temperature comfort. Warm and
| relaxing might be as important as the noise.
| roland35 wrote:
| I prefer to call it the personal wet meditation chamber
| winrid wrote:
| Is that why you're so clean?
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Personally, having people around, hearing speech (and
| involuntarily passively processing that speech), on top of
| environmental noises, is utterly distracting and hinders any
| kind of productivity.
|
| While I'm working, preferably alone, ear buds are in and a long
| instrumental track is played on loop, so that noise is drowned
| out, don't get distracted by having to select another song, and
| there's no need for my brain to process speech. It's amazing
| how well it works in keeping me focused.
|
| As of late, been playing Autechre's "Bike"
| Terretta wrote:
| https://coffitivity.com
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| I don't think there is one correct way. Sometimes I like some
| noise, sometimes I don't, sometimes I like having people
| around, sometimes I want to be alone.
|
| In the end it's about being able to control your environment to
| some degree. That's what open offices and cube farms have taken
| away.
|
| Being able to control room temprature is also very helpful.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| good observations, I've had some similar theories that you have
| better articulated
|
| https://noiz.io was a lifesaver during quar'. virtual
| coffeeshop, artificial rain storms, even an ST:TNG-style outer
| space hum
| saila wrote:
| https://mynoise.net/ is my goto for noise. I usually go for
| basic pink or brown noise, but they have a bunch of other fun
| and interesting sounds too.
|
| I have pink noise playing pretty much all the time at home.
| Not only does it mask some intermittent ambient noise, it's
| also too quiet without it. (Edit: I use sox in the terminal
| for this. Install sox then _play -n synth pinknoise_.)
|
| Just noticed the same person made https://noises.online/ too,
| which is like a simplified, browser-only version of myNoise
| ... and you can share mixes like
| https://noises.online/player.php?g=ca3fa3ib3
| adventured wrote:
| > We instinctively feel safest when we hear the chatter and
| hub-bub of relaxed tribemates puttering around nearby. We know
| we're not alone, that there are others will also be alerted if
| something happens, and that they also feel safe.
|
| I can confirm that is false.
|
| If it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would
| essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-so-
| ever.
|
| I do not gain an increased feeling of safety from the chatter
| and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates puttering nearby.
|
| That context annoys me, rather than increasing my sense of
| comfort.
|
| There are multiple types of primary human personalities, not
| one. I'm a non-tribalist personality type. That means tribes
| don't tend to like me and I don't tend to like tribes. The
| tribe and I are not friends, we're closer to suspicious
| enemies. I disagree with tribal order. By default my
| personality rebels against tribal structures and most systems
| like that. I don't do well following others that attempt to
| command me (tribal systems always have some manner of
| hierarchy). I operate at a vastly higher degree of
| effectiveness without lots of other people around. I'm happier
| and more productive on my own or in small teams.
|
| This isn't a personality I developed over time through great
| effort. It has been that way at least as far back as 4-6 years
| of age. I've also spent my life from 15-40 years of age as an
| entrepreneur. I can be a decent employee, however I dislike it.
|
| I'm a disagreeable personality (to others), as such I'm poorly
| suited to government, consensus structures, tribal systems,
| politics and the like. I also don't enjoy asking permission
| first and I never seek approval from others, I very rarely get
| a personal sense of reward from the approval of others. That
| said, the people I do like, I like immensely; and I'm kind
| toward others who are kind toward me, I believe manners are
| important, politeness/kindness are important. I used to refer
| to myself as a lone wolf personality type, as opposed to a
| tribalist personality type; however that phrase has a
| particularly negative connotation these days.
|
| I seek to pile up a lot of money to get away from most aspects
| of society (in a comfortable manner), rather than to sit on top
| of society or eg receive prestige from a prominent place in
| society.
| twofornone wrote:
| >If it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would
| essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-
| so-ever.
|
| I don't think it's necessarily valid to expect that all
| peoples have evolved the same set of instincts. Particularly
| given adaptation to vastly different environments over the
| last 200k or so years after leaving africa. This particular
| instinct would not likely be a prerequisite for survival and
| may not have occured even among all members of a given tribe.
| throw_nbvc1234 wrote:
| Or OP is simply the kind of person who would end up dead
| 200k years ago. But a more civilized world allows them to
| survive and potentially thrive.
|
| Technology (especially medical) and civilization are forces
| that act against evolution; to the extent that they
| probably seek to stop human evolution.
| adventured wrote:
| Today there are certainly drastically more opportunities
| for someone like me to not comform with the tribe. The
| risk is far lower than it would have been in past times.
| I tend to function like a robot in a traditional job
| context, my brain does some manner of emulation in those
| situations. Instead, I can be a remote software developer
| and never have to fit into a traditional team environment
| in an office, or slog through a corporate hierarchy. I
| can pursue high value contracting/consulting tasks that
| pay for the rest of my time to do what I want to do. I
| can trivially invest my earnings at zero cost into
| massive scale markets, again without requiring that I go
| through tribal/caste/cartel networks (bankers, brokers)
| to partake; specifically there is no permission required,
| no kissing of the banker's ring needed, I don't have to
| work through tribal networks to gain access, I don't have
| to win their favor (and they largely have no idea who I
| am in this context, whereas a thousand years ago the
| situation would have been entirely different for someone
| like me). I can fairly easily and safely roam at will,
| whether within the US or internationally courtesy of a
| passport. I plainly benefit from society, and I happily
| pay taxes into it (I benefit from the order and systems
| that helps deliver), even if I don't enjoy all aspects of
| society. There has never been a better time to be someone
| constructed as I am.
|
| I suspect that I would have operated on the edge of
| civilizations many thousands of years ago. I would be
| more likely to do fringe things, and trade. I've always
| enjoyed trading, the economic action of it, although I
| dislike traditional sales. Roaming trader or hunter would
| be most likely rather than shop owner in a bazaar. The
| roaming would be ideal for multiple reasons. I also
| prefer to be awake during the night and always have; I
| can easily sleep during daylight hours and without a
| darkened space.
| twofornone wrote:
| I don't disagree - call it the uniquely human tendency
| for self-domestication.
| Jensson wrote:
| > The tribe and I are not friends
|
| Then they aren't "chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates",
| rather to you it is "the whispers and noises of your
| enemies". Of course that wont get you relaxed. The effect
| comes from hearing people you are comfortable around talking,
| if you have a distrustful personality then likely you aren't
| comfortable around many people but the effect is still there,
| just that you lack another link.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| That really borders on the no true scotsman fallacy.
|
| I agree with gp.
| munificent wrote:
| _> f it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would
| essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-
| so-ever._
|
| The existence of variation does not disprove the existence of
| trends.
| adventured wrote:
| Of course. However the parent stated it as a "We" that was
| implied to span humanity. It doesn't.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| your point #1 is _exactly_ what i've learned empirically too,
| and with great unbounded frustration trying to explain it to a
| particular super manic super adhd super video-watching person
| i'm married to.
| odyssey7 wrote:
| And yet, as a freelancer/work-from-homer, I am told that my
| coffee shop receipts are not tax-deductible.
| ipaddr wrote:
| Who told you that?
| clairity wrote:
| you need to reclassify it as temp hourly office space with
| coffee included (half-joking). coffee shops (implicitly or
| explicitly) price in the cost table time into the drinks.
| that's why they're like $5 rather than $2.
|
| incidentally that's also why we should all buy something
| every hour or two, and buying to-go is basically overpaying
| (which is fine, especially if you want to support your
| locally-owned coffee joint).
|
| edit: i should add that i've preferred working from a cafe
| over home (or the library, or even a quiet office) since i
| started the habit in college. similar to the root comment,
| it's because there's enough familiar noise, but not too many
| familiar people (but greater than zero people).
| philipov wrote:
| This is also why streaming like twitch is so effective as
| background noise. I can put on a streamer in the background and
| unlike a podcast, not feel the need to pay attention to what's
| going on at all.
| neom wrote:
| I almost can't work without the radio on. I can buy the comment
| that said we want people near us to work. I like working at
| home with the radio on, no one will bug me, but maybe it feels
| like people are around?
| reactspa wrote:
| By "radio on" did you mean you're listening to a radio
| channel or to white noise?
| neom wrote:
| bbc world service or DW usually. I'm not listening though,
| occasionally I tune in, usually when I need to tune out of
| the work, and then tune back into the work, but it's just
| on, and my brain is good at using it for little rests when
| needed. DW is on right now, they've been talking about
| Bolsonaro for over an hour, all I know is some report came
| out and it wasn't favourable, but they've been talking
| about it for over an hour. Works super well for me! :)
| tharkun__ wrote:
| I wouldn't be able to work if the radio was on. I can buy
| that we want people near us not to feel alone. I get that too
| when nobody else is in the house and I'm alone and not
| working. You suddenly focus on a lot of noises you otherwise
| wouldn't and wonder if they're normal. That cracking noise
| your roof structure makes in 0F weather? You don't even
| notice when people are around but you wonder if someone is
| breaking into your house if you're alone and hear it.
|
| I work best when it's "completely silent". By that I don't
| mean actually completely silent but I certainly don't want
| radio or any other kinds of chatter. I also can't stand noise
| from ventilation, such as the AC. I do know that a lot of
| people even buy "white noise machines" e.g. for sleeping. I
| can't understand why people would voluntarily import that
| kind of noise. I actively try to get rid of it as much as I
| can, such as turning the AC way up ahead of going to bed and
| shutting it off for going to sleep.
|
| All that to say that we're all very different. He doesn't
| state absolute truths. Imagine sitting in a
| noisy cafe but still working on your paper because you don't
| know anyone and don't have the context of any discussion.
|
| This is a really hard environment to get anything done in. I
| have trouble just reading a book in such an environment,
| because usually you _do_ hear individual conversations from
| your neighbours. If it's so noisy that you can't, then the
| "white noise" is so loud that it overpowers everything and
| that is what disturbs me.
| neom wrote:
| I wonder if our work involves different type of thinking? I
| advise early stage startups, most of my time is reviewing
| go to market strategy, reading companies docs generally,
| and then writing emails asking lots of questions. If I'm
| reviewing a 150 page board deck, it can take me 4/5 hours
| to do it properly + notes, and I have to think pretty
| deeply about the deck, but I couldn't imagine doing it in
| silence, I'd go nuts.
| oldie wrote:
| I'm a software engineer. I choose music or silence
| tactically. If I need to power myself through a task, I use
| music to do it. If I'm trying to solve a difficult problem or
| master a complex body of unfamiliar code, I need silence.
|
| Before WFH become the norm in early 2020, there were days
| when I made no progress at all until everyone else had gone
| home. The precious hour between 5pm and 6pm -- when the
| cleaners came and talked to me and broke my concentration
| again -- was sometimes more productive than the entire day
| that led up to it.
|
| What also helps, working alone, is the ability to talk out
| loud to yourself. For me, it's a superpower. I dread losing
| it if Management decides to pull us all back into the office
| when the pandemic is over. (Or, even worse, continually
| talking to myself without realising it. :-))
| Jentifgq wrote:
| The waiter asking every 10 minutes if I want more coffee or
| would like to order something/ is everything alright is quite
| distracting though?
| ashupadhi01 wrote:
| New to hackernews
| jleyank wrote:
| Why not phrase this as "things not seen as distracting can help,
| while things seen as distracting can hurt". For me, I can often
| debug real well to tunes as long as there's no words. Having to
| listen to words breaks the flow. But to create hard code please
| leave me alone, go away and shut the door.
| dannyr wrote:
| Same with me as well but add music with language I don't
| understand.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Famously, Von Neumann did a lot of his work in front of the TV
| xnzlal wrote:
| And Einstein hated von Neumann playing German march music next
| to his office.
|
| The question asked in the title pushes a false premise. Humans
| are different, I for example work fastest in complete silence.
| tudorw wrote:
| interruptions used to make me irritated, then I accepted that the
| irritation was more distracting than the interruption...
| cranesnakecode wrote:
| I'd like to see less research about how we turn ourselves into
| optimal work machines and more research about how we reach a
| maximum vividness of conscious experience.
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| Silence is the best productivity focus for me. I wear earplugs
| under active noise cancelling headphones.
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| I am Deaf myself and using my hearing aids all of my life. One
| thing I discovered that silence is the best productivity focus
| for me. During my job, I always keep my hearing aids off. This
| helps with my ADHD as I am easily distracted when there is a
| sound involved, sometime causes me to 'hyperfocus' in my "world"
| than doing my job. And interesting that I found that keeping my
| hearing aids off makes the time around me become slow. With the
| hearing aids on, it amplified the stimulation on my brain in a
| way which make it feel like the time is in turbo mode.
|
| I recently discovered this "ability" and start doing my job
| without hearing aids. Basically, silence is golden for me and
| helps a lot with my productivity.
| new_guy wrote:
| I wear ear plugs basically turning my ears 'off', that's the
| only thing that makes me productive.
| iroddis wrote:
| I have similar issues with distractibility with sounds. Music
| sometimes helps, and white noise is good, but sometimes I'd
| love to be able to just turn my ears off.
|
| The worst situation is feeling the need for enough audio
| stimuli to feel "right", but that level is too distracting to
| allow for focus.
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| Agreed with you there. It is so hard to find the right sounds
| that could help me to focus but it turns out it made it
| worse. There are few sounds that does help me to focus like
| heartbeating, I have a 30min opus file that is purely
| heartbeats. I gravities toward repeating sounds because they
| are easier to focus as they are rhythmic. Anything that are
| not rhythmic will mess with my pacing.
| randcraw wrote:
| I find that wearing hearing protector earmuffs (like the 3M
| Peltor Optime, which cuts 30 dB) cuts out so much sound that
| I feel almost stone deaf and the rest of the world goes away.
| It takes a little practice for them not to be disquieting,
| but it helps if I turn my attention elsewhere.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| I have ADHD, and when it works well, the hyper-focus effect is
| similar to what you describe with your hearing aids turned off.
|
| But for me, the outside world's time seems to go _faster_ , not
| _slower_. It 's like the more I'm focusing on my task at hand,
| the less I notice the passage of time around me.
|
| I'm curious why our hyper-focus experiences differ in that way.
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| My theory it is something to do with our senses. Since I have
| a hearing disability, so that 'hearing' sense is not
| functioning as in turn amplifying my other senses. I am going
| with the assumption that you are hearing (it a Deaf community
| lingo for people who have functioning hearings), so you have
| five senses operating at the same time. For me, I only have
| four senses operating at the same time. So with the hearing
| aid, my hearing sense will be "on" which maybe put more work
| for my brain to process everything else. Without the hearing
| aid, which my hearing sense is simply off. So, my brain can
| spend all of the "processing power" into other four senses
| which made me feel like the passage of time becoming slow.
| That is my theory is what I have so far. I don't know if this
| is valid theory.
| bduerst wrote:
| The phenomenon you're describing psychological flow:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
|
| Where time perception starts to skip as the brain becomes
| hyper focused on a task. One of the things I've noticed
| (having ADD) is that it's easy to enter into flow and
| accomplish much, but can be difficult to master what you
| enter flow with.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| > One of the things I've noticed (having ADD) is that it's
| easy to enter into flow and accomplish much, but can be
| difficult to master what you enter flow with.
|
| Adderall is like that for me. It works wonders, but heaven
| forbid I'm focusing on the wrong thing as it kicks in.
| motohagiography wrote:
| Very odd question, but if as a person experiencing difficulty
| hearing who can get partial hearing from a hearing aid, can you
| experience binaural beats, which are essentially non-sound
| neurological artifacts of the brain processing and filtering
| slightly different tones?
|
| Meta analysis of them here,
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00426-018-1066-8 ,
| full paper is on sci-hub.
|
| Almost everything about binaural beats is very non-sciency and
| full of woo and nonsense, but if the ability to "hear" the
| brain artifact that doesn't register on the spectrogram of the
| sound caused by them were different for people experiencing
| hearing loss, experiencing the binaural beat "tone" in your
| head could indicate the persistence of some kind of
| physiological effect independent of direct hearing ability. If
| a person with reduced hearing didn't hear the binaural beat
| artifact, it would probably be just a harmonic or a simple wave
| interference pattern, and not the mysterious phenomenon it gets
| sold as.
|
| I ask because they are a particular type of noise that you can
| use for focus and consistency to drown out other noises,
| similar to white, pink, rain sounds and other flavours of
| noise.
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| I am not sure if I can hear binaural beats. I tried a few of
| them in the past and always found them... mm what that
| word... like "metal rubbing on other metal" sounds which I
| don't like and felt randomized. They don't work for me. I am
| not sure if my hearing aids have something to do with it.
| Hearing aids does modify the sounds from the microphone and
| amplifies & output various range to get closer to "normal
| hearing level" to the ear. So, I don't know if my hearing
| aids is outputting the binaural sounds correctly as it is
| intended to.
|
| It is hard to find sound generators that would produce
| rhythmic beats rather than randomizing few beats here and
| there. Something like "beeee boop beeee boop beeee boop" or
| "swish bah swish bah swish bah" beats is what I prefer. My
| partner always looks at me funny everything I dance when my
| top-loader washing machine is on because it always produces
| simple rhythmic beats. Same for my dishwasher sounds.
| motohagiography wrote:
| Super interesting, thank you. Indeed, if the hearing aid
| EQ'd the input to bring out things in the range of speech,
| the effect in most of the artistic binaural beats tracks
| could be suppressed, as the effect is caused by a very
| specific difference between tones sent to each ear.
|
| The beats are the artifact of directing two frequencies
| with a difference of only a few Hz, one per ear, and the
| "beat," phenomenon is a pulse we mentally feel as the
| result of the brain allegedly straining either to
| distinguish or consolidate the two tones from each ear as
| the same or separate. The tension between the tones does
| manifest as a kind of stimulation or subtle irritation, and
| higher frequencies could plausibly create an anxiety
| effect, like metal on metal you described.
|
| Max Richter's "Sleep" is a recent artistic implementation
| of these, where different ones are used as a backing track
| throughout. I'm hacking around with reproducing them on a
| synth rig, but even then, the stuff written about them is
| mostly using pure sine waves, so even if you get
| interesting sound effects from other types of waves (saw,
| triangle, pulse, etc), there's not much in the way of
| empirical control.
|
| Rare opportunity for the question to be on topic so had to
| ask, thank you!
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| It is more likely it is the hearing aids EQs are changing
| the sounds. Hearing aids is basically a computer in a
| tiny form, that why they are $2,000 to $6,000 USD each.
| Every hearing aids (each side of the ear) have a
| customized EQ for each wearer, it is conform to their
| hearing ability to pick up sounds. For myself, I can hear
| up to 2MHz and only audible at 100 dB with hearing aids.
| I can't hear past 2.5Mhz range but I can feel the
| vibration in my cochlea. That helps me to know they are
| speaking outside of my frequency range. I often have
| issues understanding people who is using tonal language
| like East Asian languages, it sounds like they are
| speaking from a Walkman CD with skipping every 5 seconds.
| motohagiography wrote:
| Looking it up, 2Mhz is about C7 (c note at 7th octave),
| which most music is below, but you'd miss a lot of
| additional harmonics that could have context.
|
| So, well into the speculative here, if binaural beats are
| indeed a real thing, e.g. that by offsetting a tone
| between two ears and frequencies it produces a third
| epiphenomanal artifact that is not explicitly "heard,"
| but processed outside the range of what the ear can
| distinguish by the brain, it does imply we could take any
| sound and then modulate it so that it appeared or was
| realized in this meta effect range where the brain
| automatically processes it.
|
| If binaural beats are not real, then there's a lot of
| speculative woo that automatically gets debunked. But if
| they are real, and there were a way to take a frequency
| or sound, and modulate it so that the effect could be
| processed by the brain as an artifact of its own
| processing and not as the actual physical "sound," that
| could be interesting. Maybe the way hearing aids EQ
| sounds also shifts frequencies and folds them into the
| range the listener can physically hear already. If there
| were a meta sound that binaural beats in effect claim to
| be, there would also be an FFT that would take a given
| sound input and transform it through stereo headphones to
| produce it at the frequency one could "hear" as an
| artifact of the brain reconstructing it.
|
| I'm well into the territory of "dare to be stupid"
| speculation here, but the premise of creating a binaural
| beat to create this super-audible artifact, then
| modulating the artifact effect to transmit the
| information would be pretty interesting (probably even an
| ffmpeg one liner). I like cuban cigars and american
| whiskey if someone reading this becomes a billionare as a
| result of implementing it, but if it doesn't make a
| difference, there's a whole subculture of binaural beat
| internet woo that needs to know it isn't a thing. :)
| Bedon292 wrote:
| That is quite an interesting difference from me. I _have_ to
| have sound or else there is absolutely no chance for me to
| focus. Primarily music with a lot of bass. Podcasts are bad
| though as that requires paying attention. Perhaps the music
| serves to block out other possible distractions. If you make me
| sit around in silence, I will be all over the place and unable
| to focus. It feels like I require some level of sensory input,
| and once that is maxed out I can actually get things done.
| Isthatablackgsd wrote:
| Funny enough, I learnt from my partner (who is hearing) that
| hearing peoples do not like silence or anything that are too
| quiet. If there is a silence between the sentence or words,
| people often will instinct-ly fills those silence with fluff
| words like "um", "mm", "well" to be still in turn of the
| conversation. If there is a silence, they will assume that it
| is their turn to initiate the conversation further. Deaf
| communities don't use that kind of nuances and it is a
| culture shock for me to learn how hearing people MUST have
| sounds anywhere.
| jck wrote:
| I also have ADHD, but not hearing problems and suffer some of
| the problems you describe. However, silence doesn't seem to
| help my productivity and sometimes makes me anxious too.
|
| What helps me is predictable sounds - like music I've listened
| to many times before.
| MobiusHorizons wrote:
| I have certain albums that I have listened to straight
| through many times now while getting work done. They no
| longer distract me basically at all, so I can work very
| effectively.
|
| I have also found that certain not types of older TV shows
| hit the white noise level where they get me moving, but don't
| pull me out of my thoughts too often. This is mostly for
| things where the goal is just to keep moving on something,
| not where the goal is to think deeply.
| [deleted]
| zzzeek wrote:
| went looking for some interesting neurological findings and found
| a very poor repurposing of a Nate Silver quote that was referring
| to statistics, not neurology.
| jdowner wrote:
| I had a similar hope. Not long into the article, it was
| apparent that the author was not using the term 'noise' in a
| particularly well-defined way. For me, 'noise' is unstructured
| sound. People talking is structured, which is why it is a
| problem. I used to block out people in the office by listening
| to heavy metal, but in the end I found listening to actual
| noise was more effective for me to get my work done. So I was
| hoping the article was going to dig more into that side of
| things.
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