[HN Gopher] Samsung UK admits you can't disable ads on Samsung s...
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Samsung UK admits you can't disable ads on Samsung smart TV
Author : NKosmatos
Score : 158 points
Date : 2021-10-28 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| cryptodan wrote:
| Use pihole?
| deergomoo wrote:
| My recommendations for how to deal with this shit, in decreasing
| order of effectiveness:
|
| 1. Don't buy a Samsung or LG TV. Unfortunately, if you're in the
| market for a real high-end TV, you often don't have another
| option
|
| 2. Never connect it to the internet and use a dedicated streaming
| box/stick instead. If you don't have one, or don't want to give
| up a HDMI port...
|
| 3. Block the following domains on your router or via a free
| OpenDNS account:
|
| - ads.samsung.com
|
| - config.samsungads.com
|
| - doubleclick.net
|
| - gpm.samsungqbe.com
|
| - log-config.samsungacr.com
|
| - samsungacr.com
|
| - samsungads.com
|
| - samsungosp.com
|
| - samsungotn.net
|
| - samsungrm.net
|
| - tvx.adgrx.com
|
| No more ads.
|
| This shit makes my blood boil. I have a laundry list of issues
| with this TV, which is a shame because when it's not actively
| trying to make me hate the company it's actually a very nice
| display. LG pull this shit too, but I think they're slightly less
| awful than Samsung. I didn't particularly want an OLED panel
| which is why I went for a Samsung LCD, and I regret that decision
| regularly.
| acoard wrote:
| My understanding is this is what Amazon Sidewalk is, at least
| in part, about. Your TV could easily bypass your network, and
| connect through your neighbours Echo. If I understand, it's
| opt-out and enabled by default. So, essentially Samsung will
| pay Amazon a few bucks a months to show you ads regardless of
| how you've locked down your network, because your neighbour
| hasn't locked down his.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=UTF8&node=213281...
| tristor wrote:
| 4. All of the above.
|
| Ironically, Vizio TVs (one of the budget brands) seem to be one
| of the least aggressive about trying to display ads in ways
| which are difficult to bypass. That's what I bought and I don't
| connect it to the network, and I block these ad domains (among
| others) network-wide.
| snug wrote:
| Where does LG do it? Honestly I've had two LGs for about 4
| years now and have not noticed any ads, maybe some in their
| content store, but that's about it. Overall pretty happy with
| LG
| mikeryan wrote:
| The problem with trying to avoid the current smart TVs is that
| the industry has started to subsidize the pricing by selling
| viewing data. It's going to be harder moving forward to compete
| on price without having "smart" features that are really a shim
| for getting the analytics and tracking packages in there.
|
| I've been running a pihole on my home network which also
| actually removes a lot of client side inserted ads during video
| playback which is another huge upside.
| azemetre wrote:
| There is away around this, consistently pressure and lobby
| our governments to make this illegal or mandate that they
| provide dumb TVs as well.
|
| Change doesn't happen instantly but a dedicated lobbying
| campaign and activism will yield results.
| deergomoo wrote:
| What frustrates me is the lack of options and lack of
| transparency. Amazon do it right with the Kindle imo--you can
| get it with ads or pay slightly more and get it without.
|
| My other issue is that I find ads on something that costs >
| PS1000 to be incredibly distasteful. If it was some bargain
| basement thing fine, but this is meant to be top tier.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Conversely, the advertisers are becoming increasingly less
| hesitant about doing what they want: exploiting high-end
| products instead of low-end products. The fact that you
| just spent north of PS1k on a TV is an unambiguous proof
| you're much more lucrative target for advertising than
| someone who only buys the cheapest things available.
|
| This is why "pay XOR ads" is a pipe dream: vendors will
| always turn it into "pay AND ads", because selecting for
| people with disposable income makes ROI on advertising much
| better.
| Silhouette wrote:
| But that only works as long as everyone is at it. As soon
| as you have one brand that makes a point of not doing
| anything like that and just providing good quality gear,
| the market of people with enough money to feature in this
| part of the discussion has another option they may well
| prefer. And if people buy Apple gear, no-one is
| convincing me that such a brand couldn't sell a TV with
| $1000 hardware specs and no junk at $1200 or even $1500
| to that market.
| kloch wrote:
| Is HDMI-CEC (Anynet+ on Samsung) a security/privacy risk also?
| I remember reading something about it being able to leverage
| connected devices Internet access a long time ago but I can NOT
| find anything to substantiate that now.
|
| I do disable HDMI-CEC anyway just to stop user-hostile features
| like Hulu on Roku disabling the input select button on the TV
| remote.
| deergomoo wrote:
| Ethernet over HDMI is totally a thing but I have no idea if
| the ports in their TVs are wired for it.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I recently searched for this and couldn't find any device
| that actually implements this. In any case, Ethernet over
| HDMI still requires one of the HDMI devices to be connected
| to the network via some other way and bridge the HDMI
| connection with that network as to give the other HDMI
| device a way out. So something like an Apple TV which has
| no incentive to help spyware should be safe.
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| I have an LG TV and never seen an ad. Just don't go into their
| store or home screen. Launch the app you want directly.
| antihero wrote:
| Is there a UK available streaming device that supports:
|
| - AirPlay (audio/video)
|
| - Spotify Connect
|
| - YouTube 4K
|
| - USB MP4 (& MKV)
|
| - Netflix 4K
|
| - Amazon Prime 4K
|
| And is super polished & responsive? If so I'd be interested,
| but my LG TV, crummy as its ads are, does all this out the box.
| I'd happily pay some money to have more control.
| neilalexander wrote:
| Aside from USB playback, an Apple TV 4K can solve most of
| this. (I don't know about Spotify Connect but assume it works
| with AirPlay if not).
| drcongo wrote:
| Yeah, I have an Apple TV 4K on my LG dumb TV which does all
| this (AirPlay also being far superior to Spotify Connect),
| though it's the dumb TV that will play back anything off a
| USB stick. Willing to bet this TV outlasts a "smart"
| Samsung by many years.
| antihero wrote:
| Yeah the USB is the kicker. I want to avoid using some crap
| like Plex, so unless there's a super simple and reliable
| way of streaming 4K MKVs over the network it is nice to use
| the pendrive.
|
| I suppose the TV can still use the pendrive even offline,
| actually.
|
| What advantages does an AppleTV 4K (PS169) have over a Roku
| Streaming Stick+ (PS45)?
| charwalker wrote:
| Not sure about the Plex flack here, 4k is fine if not
| transcoded and sits happily in its own library.
| drcongo wrote:
| I own both, and the Roku is slow, buggy and has really
| horrible UX. It doesn't get used at all.
| varenc wrote:
| I stream 4K MKVs from my phone (an iPhone) to my Apple TV
| 4K using AirPlay all the time. It used to be a challenge
| getting the codecs right, but there's broader support
| now. It took awhile to find a good iOS app that supports
| this, but once I found nPlayer[0] I've never gone back.
| It's faarrr better than the VLC iOS app.
|
| It works quite well even when my phone is streaming media
| that's on cloud storage somewhere (nPlayer supports
| many). But for optimal playback I download the file to my
| device first.
|
| Of course if you want Dolby Atmos sound, I think you're
| out of luck. I think HDR should work but not sure.
|
| [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nplayer-
| plus/id539397400#?plat...
|
| edit: You can also install app on the ATV that accesses
| files stored over the network/internet as well, like VLC
| for ATV. Though I've never found a great one.
| jjp wrote:
| App to access files over the network. I think Infuse is
| pretty good. It supports NAS and if your files are well
| named then pulls in meta/artwork. Can also be a front-end
| for Ember/Jellyfin/Plex, but for my LAN media I'm
| currently going with DLNA.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I did not realize this was an option, thank you for your
| comment
| neilalexander wrote:
| You can get VLC on Apple TV which makes streaming most
| things on the LAN simple enough but yeah, just using the
| USB port on the TV would probably work for that use case.
| The UI is miles better on the Apple TV and the remotes
| are very good, but you do need to create/use an Apple
| account in order to download things (like Netflix,
| YouTube, Amazon Prime etc.) from the App Store.
| short12 wrote:
| A large amount of Kodi/android based tv boxes support that.
| For example pentoo devices
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| You can do it all with two streaming devices, an Apple TV,
| and a Raspberry Pi running LibreElec:
|
| https://libreelec.tv
|
| And the Raspberry Pi is $35 so it's not a hugely expensive
| addition.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| The Pi doesn't support 4K Netflix, 4K Amazon or full fat
| Airplay.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| ...that would be why I said that and an Apple TV.
| devmunchies wrote:
| I'm using a Mac mini. Just have a wireless mouse and
| keyboard. Much more versatile than a streaming device. It's
| nice being able to zoom from it with family or coworkers.
| smoldesu wrote:
| That would probably cost you more than the TV itself.
| devmunchies wrote:
| Use it for work at night too. I'm fortunate enough to
| hardly consider price for my priorities (performance, ad-
| free, versatility).
| Mindwipe wrote:
| Doesn't support Amazon 4K from that list.
| OnlyMortal wrote:
| Roku, I believe, would be something to look at.
| deergomoo wrote:
| As others have said the Apple TV gets you most of the way
| there--presumably you can do USB playback from the TV without
| connecting to the network?
| antihero wrote:
| I can, shame it doesn't support MKV properly, though!
| dhritzkiv wrote:
| Third party apps from the App Store, such as VLC, will
| play MKVs (and other formats) no problem.
|
| I used to re-encode MKVs to MP4s for playback on the
| AppleTV 3rd gen, but since getting the Apple TV 4K (2nd
| gen), I simply shuttle over the MKVs to VLC from the web
| interface.
| nikon wrote:
| Use Plex
| breakingcups wrote:
| With the exception of AirPlay, the Nvidia Shield seems to fit
| the bill.
|
| There are AirPlay receivers for the Shield IIRC but they are
| unofficial and unsupported.
| gmac wrote:
| I think maybe a Roku Streaming Stick 4K will do everything
| there except the USB? (I don't have one but have been
| considering one; I have a 5-year-old LG Blu-Ray player that
| covers USB and DLNA pretty well).
| Mindwipe wrote:
| I don't think so, but a Sony Android TV would also meet these
| requirements.
|
| HN is generally down on integrated TVs, but the truth is that
| they're honestly fine nowadays, and much more likely to have
| robust integration of services than boxes are. And if support
| goes downhill after a while, you can buy a box then when
| there will maybe be better options.
| deadmutex wrote:
| For #1, maybe these can be good substitutes:
|
| https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
| zeusk wrote:
| Absolutely not, their panels suck.
|
| The only budget manufacturers that give two shit about
| quality seem to be Hisense, TCL and Vizio.
| beerandt wrote:
| When I shopped TVs a few years ago, Sony was the only consumer
| brand that didn't have ToS that included language about this type
| of advertising. I'm not sure if that's changed. They still spy on
| you plenty, though.
|
| That's what we bought, but we still don't connect it to a network
| and only use hdmi inputs. Plus disabled quite a few apps via adb,
| and don't update the software.
|
| It's sad that this is what it's come to.
|
| I also suspect that at least Android devices are starting to use
| other (Android) network devices as proxies to get data to Google
| when they've been firewalled with only LAN access.
|
| Lots of unexplained data getting transferred on my home network
| between firewalled Android devices.
|
| But maybe the state of things just has me being overly paranoid.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| While it will hopefully remain one way, it's a matter of time
| the TV will receive updates and ads over DVB or other broadcast
| mediums.
|
| Could even geo-target ads. TV could figure out its location by
| GPS, multilateration of DVB signal strengths, what wifi is
| around, or purchase/delivery information (you didn't stupidly
| get your 85" TV delivered to your own house, did you???).
|
| Would be cool to have on-demand TV or other data distribution
| given how much spectrum is available on DVB-T.
|
| Just like satellite Set top boxes.
| beerandt wrote:
| Yeah- I suspect the push for Ethernet over hdmi has a lot to
| do with getting all these "unplugged" smart devices
| reconnected to a network.
| orev wrote:
| This is the holy grail for mobile carriers -- have enough
| bandwidth in 5G where devices will come with mobile data
| already activated without user intervention at all.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| They could have done that today with 3G if they wanted,
| they just choose not to.
|
| Tons of unused spectrum overnight that should cost nearly
| $0, but they choose not to because we market prices would
| be bad for telecoms so it's not on offer.
| post_break wrote:
| I have a 2020 high end Samsung TV. I haven't agreed to the TOS
| since taking it out of the box and it still works just fine.
| ssully wrote:
| I got a Sony 2 years ago and haven't had any add issues.
|
| Outside of being picky on what brands to choose from, the next
| best thing is to just never use the "smart" features and rely
| on a third party box like Roku/Apple TV/Pi/Etc. I know some
| smart TV adds will still throw ad's in the menus, but you
| shouldn't have to use the menu's that frequently.
| cronix wrote:
| I think the only way to sanely and safely use a modern "smart" tv
| is to use it as a "dumb" monitor. How ironic. Never use the
| software, except once to select HDMI 1 as the input, or whatever.
| That's the last time you'll see their cumbersome interface, or
| ads, or anything else that you didn't explicitly send to it.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| "Smart TV" means "smart" for the manufacturer. For the user, it's
| pretty "dumb" to let the manufacturer invade your privacy on
| _your_ TV.
|
| Thank you Samsung but no thanks. Any "smarts" I need from my TV,
| I will add myself. This way, I know exactly what I am getting.
| garciasn wrote:
| Unless you're using a disconnected TV (i.e., no
| CATV/SATV/Internet), your viewing habits are being tracked and
| sold.
| FabHK wrote:
| Can I assume that a modern TV I buy works without internet?
| (I'd just want it to display stuff I feed it via HDMI or
| whatever).
| ReidZB wrote:
| I have a couple modern LG 'smart' TVs that I don't connect
| to the internet, and they work just fine. As you say, they
| just display whatever is on the HDMI input.
|
| I've updated their firmware a couple times. I connect them
| with wired cat6 on their own isolated VLAN to update, and
| then disconnect them afterwards. Maybe I am a little
| unnecessarily paranoid about it, but I don't really trust
| TV manufacturers, not with some of the (maybe apocryphal)
| stories I've read.
| snvzz wrote:
| No, you're not being paranoid.
|
| This is the only way. And beware, they might still be
| connecting to some public wifi hotspot behind your back.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Why even bother with firmware updates for a disconnected
| device? Did they bring any benefits?
| ReidZB wrote:
| Yep! I've had two nasty bugs (intermittent audio dropping
| and HDMI CEC power off being broken) that were fixed by
| firmware updates.
|
| I don't keep the firmware preemptively updated, though. I
| just did it as a debugging step in trying to fix some
| problems, and shockingly it did both times.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Ah, it makes sense in that case.
|
| I have a decade old Sony Bravia that we got because it
| supported DVB-T (terrestrial digital television; now no
| longer in use because of a switch to DVB-T2) without the
| need for a set-top box. It has an Ethernet jack, but
| other than some experimentation after we got it I never
| connected it. I can't imagine ever trying to update its
| firmware at this point; no reward and plenty of risk.
| After DVB-T went we just stopped watching broadcast
| television, and this early 'smart' TV only gets turned on
| sitting on the HDMI input it gets from a receiver hooked
| up to loudspeakers and an HTPC with Netflix in a browser
| and other media. Of all its features the on/off button on
| the side is the only thing interacted with now. I've
| stopped repairing the remote years ago.
|
| I fully expect it to just die one of these days, and it
| will probably be the last smart TV we'll ever own.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Probably because they ship beta devices as production
| quality.
| gpvos wrote:
| There have been stories that soon, TVs will come with a
| built-in mobile chip, or will try to connect to open wifi
| networks even if you don't configure them to. I don't know
| how much truth is in those stories, but I wouldn't put it
| past the TV manufacturers to do so.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| They don't even need to do that. Just contract with local
| TV networks to send data over their OTA TV streams that
| gets routed to the TV's CPU instead of video decoder.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| ???
|
| Routing data to the CPU wouldn't make much difference
| without a network connection to transmit the data back to
| central collection point.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| The endpoint is to deliver new and targeted ads. And
| firmware updates.
|
| Tracking won't work without a phone home though. But
| that's a solved problem. We've been delivering ads for a
| while without 100% knowing which are watched.
| gruez wrote:
| >SATV
|
| Do satellite TV boxes even have an uplink connection? AFAIK
| the satellite dish is one direction only.
| murderfs wrote:
| Lots of them require periodic internet access for
| distribution of key material.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Isn't that sent over the air?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Even 1990s systems would have a 2400bps modem to phone in
| pay per view purchases.
|
| Policy requires a telephone connection, partly for the
| purpose of reducing subscription sharing.
|
| Pirates and many others wouldn't or couldn't plug them in.
|
| Once an update was built to check for a dial tone
| intermittently and eventually deactivate, so pirates
| created a 555 timer device with a 9V battery to generate a
| frequency close to the dialtone. Even though a dialtone is
| 2 frequencies, the modem accepted any single frequency
| remotely close to the right range.
|
| At some point, the provider would call subscribers with
| several boxes on the same sub that didn't phone home and
| ask for "secret" numbers from all receivers, but someone
| quickly published a program that generated those keys.
| Saves legit customers from walking around the house too.
|
| Fun times.
| rjsw wrote:
| My satellite TV box has an ethernet port on the back.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| A lot of what I watch is digital broadcast TV. And the only
| connection my TV has is through HDMI to my computer. Even my
| dual ATSC broadcast tuner is driven by my PC so I can do all
| sorts of "smart" stuff like picture in a picture, split
| screen or watch one channel while recording another.
|
| Privacy is only half the issue. Freedom is the other half.
| Most manufacturers control what you're allowed to install on
| _your_ "smart" TV. And most can't record either.
|
| How "dumb" is that?
| enragedcacti wrote:
| Roku TVs have this turned on by default but it is pretty easy
| to disable in settings.
|
| Exercise to the reader to see what is still sent when it's
| disabled.
| intricatedetail wrote:
| Why is that legal?
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| My next TV will be a Samsung or LG.
|
| Is there a Pi-hole version running on a something that I can PoE
| plug into the ethernet port of a TV?
| stevespang wrote:
| But you can block the ip that those ads are coming from, even
| better is vote your wallet by NOT BUYING anything Samsung.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I've recently been in the market for a display and had good luck
| with Sony's professional displays. I ended up going for this one:
| https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays/fw-65bz40h which was
| very competitive on price with consumer-grade models of similar
| spec despite being a professional display.
|
| It's just got a stock Android TV, a Sony privacy policy popup
| which you can decline (no idea what I'm missing out on -
| declining skips some steps during set up) and some professional
| apps such as Crestron screen sharing, Airplay, etc.
|
| It's not a TV and doesn't have any consumer-grade apps
| preinstalled, but there is a Google Play store icon so I'm pretty
| sure you can install Netflix on it if you wanted to.
| bitwize wrote:
| My girlfriend likes to watch ALL the streamers. I have a "no
| smart TVs" rule for our home because of shit like this.
|
| We made it work by buying an Apple TV and a Sceptre dumb TV off
| Walmart's web site. Sceptre allegedly has picture quality
| problems, but the picture looks great; if certain shades of blue
| turn up 5 nits too dim I haven't noticed.
| drcongo wrote:
| I wrote this [1] seven years ago and the future I feared is now
| here. I lucked out finding a 4K LG dumb TV about three years ago,
| but I've recently been trying to buy a larger screen for a new
| house and cannot find a single good, large, dumb TV for sale in
| the UK.
|
| [1] https://andybeaumont.com/post/dumb-tv/
| dehrmann wrote:
| Are there any open source TV firmware projects? Think OpenWRT for
| your TV.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| It wouldn't have any of the DRM keys for mainstream services.
| gdulli wrote:
| Is this a Samsung app that you would never see if you have no
| interest in smart apps and leave your TV off the internet?
| Because if so that's easily avoided, Netflix would also profile
| me and advertise content to me through its app, and I don't plan
| to ever open that one either.
|
| This screenshot looks like a streaming content interface, and
| data mining you has been a fundamental part of all these services
| for years, right? Not saying it's great, just that this isn't new
| or unusual. Of course they're tracking what you watch for
| advertising purposes.
|
| Or is this a fundamental part of the UI for a Samsung TV that you
| need to interact with for daily use even if you don't want
| content through Samsung? Because that would be unacceptable. I
| wouldn't buy a TV if it required an internet connection to
| function.
|
| My favorite type of advertising is traditional TV commercials
| that can be fast forwarded or muted and fully skipped. There's
| never going to be a net decrease in advertising. Digital and
| streaming are just making it harder to skip, keep strictly
| separate from content, and receive anonymously.
| mithusingh32 wrote:
| It's not.
|
| For example when pausing a Hulu stream on my Samsung TV....I'll
| get an ad for random crap (sometimes for things placed in a
| show) ok my pause screen.
|
| Samsung TVs are basically giant billboard you pay to have in
| your home.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > Samsung TVs are basically giant billboard you pay to have
| in your home.
|
| You say this, and yet you have one in your home. And this
| contradiction is why these things continue to thrive: because
| even people who care...also don't care.
| mithusingh32 wrote:
| People like me are stuck. Not like we can return the TV's
| after years of owning them.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| You could sell it on the secondary market (either whole
| or piecemeal) and use the money towards purchasing an
| alternate?
| gdulli wrote:
| If that's Samsung interjecting onto other apps, that's
| horrible. I guess if it's Hulu it's still horrible, but feels
| less chaotic and it's easier to reason about whether the Hulu
| value prop alone is worthwhile given the price vs. ads.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > Is this a Samsung app that you would never see if you have no
| interest in smart apps and leave your TV off the internet?
| Because if so that's easily avoided
|
| So the problem with this approach is that, yes sure if you have
| the technical acumen you can prevent the TV from phoning home,
| but you are still giving money to the company that engages in
| this kind of behavior. And that money contributes to them
| developing more intrusive tools like this that target consumers
| of their products who do not have the requisite technical
| acumen to prevent the TV from phoning home.
|
| In other words, by buying an adware TV and disabling the
| adware, you're still supporting the adware company instead of
| just buying a TV without adware in the first place.
| gdulli wrote:
| I have a Vizio TV that's never been on the internet. I've
| never opened its apps and don't know what it is I'm avoiding.
| Given my other product requirements for a TV, eliminating all
| that have smart apps would probably leave me with no choices.
|
| Ironically I have a Samsung phone because I wouldn't give
| money to Google for hardware. We're just surrounded and
| choosing the lesser of various evils every day.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > eliminating all that have smart apps would probably leave
| me with no choices
|
| I really don't understand why otherwise tech-savvy users
| start acting like generic deer-in-the-headlights consumer
| tropes when faced with the prospect of TV sets. All you
| have to do is a basic web query for "best dumb TVs" and
| you'll find sites listing all manner of models and options.
| gdulli wrote:
| I just looked at two of those lists and 100% of the
| options listed were from companies that also make smart
| TVs, which violates what you said: "you are still giving
| money to the company that engages in this kind of
| behavior".
|
| I don't mind if they sell a bunch of smart TVs where they
| never capture the revenue they expect from apps, and it
| hurts their conversion and engagement metrics.
| humps wrote:
| On the Samsung TVs I own, when you first set it up there's a
| yes/no agreement screen and if you choose "no" none of the smart
| features are accessible and you don't get any phoning home or ads
| by simply not entering Wi-Fi details. I haven't bought a new TV
| for a few years, though. So this may be different now, but the
| best way I found to create a dumb TV experience.
| wombat-man wrote:
| yeah I have a cheaper vizio and I found that just not
| connecting it to wifi is a much better experience. the 'smart
| tv' features are not very good compared to a dedicated
| chromecast anyways.
| throw10920 wrote:
| This is what I did for my TV, as well. Unfortunately, they'll
| eventually do something about it - they'll make pop-ups that
| appear continually until you sign in, or straight-up disable
| critical features. Just like jailbreaking, this is just a hack
| that happens to work for the time being - the only long-term
| solution is to vote with your wallet, lobby for regulation, or
| (ideally) both.
| httgp wrote:
| My LG TV wouldn't upgrade without me consenting to it.
| bombela wrote:
| Mine wouldn't even boot out of the box without agreeing to
| the terms. Saying no would just turn it off.
| bsd44 wrote:
| I recently bought a Samsung 4K TV and it came with a "free tv"
| service (that's also crammed with ads). It's intrusive, it
| auto-plays and can't be disabled and I just don't want it. I've
| never owned a TV as an adult before and was interested in
| buying a video console to play some games, so it's kind of my
| fault for not understanding how these modern TVs work. But even
| so, if I'm paying PS600 for a TV how is it acceptable to have
| all this nonsense pre-installed on it that can't be disabled or
| deleted? Nowhere on the sales page does it mention any of that
| and all the reviews seems to be from happy people on day 1 of
| purchase. The only way around it is to connect up a third party
| receiver to it such as Amazon Fire TV or Apple TV...but still
| feel cheated as a consumer if I have to do that.
| intricatedetail wrote:
| People should start making complaints to trading standards
| and simply return these as not fit for purpose.
| gpvos wrote:
| Which features _are_ still accessible? Only HDMI input, or
| more?
| wombat-man wrote:
| yeah you should be able to still watch OTA tv channels. Hdmi
| cable boxes should of course work. same with picture
| adjustment
| tomc1985 wrote:
| I do this with my several-years-old Samsung as well. Inputs,
| menus, TV tuner, and the OTA program guide all work. No smart
| apps and no ads.
| Scorpiion wrote:
| Does anyone know if newer Philips smart TVs have this type of
| ads? I have one that's around 4 years old and it doesn't have it,
| not sure with newer ones.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I feel there must be a non insignificant market for TV sized
| monitors, or something like dumb TVs with high end panels.
|
| Industrial offerings were severely overpriced last time I
| checked.
|
| I know I am hardly in the majority but having an actual computer
| hooked to your big panel is so much better than dealing with
| "apps" and ads.
|
| How hard is it to make a profit selling a TV sized monitor?
| rvz wrote:
| It has been painfully admitted and the confession is in public.
|
| Samsung's smart TVs are watching you watch TV. Time to watch
| something else with a different brand?
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| What's the alternative? Unless you're buying TVs specifically
| made for office meeting rooms or hotel lobbies, pretty much
| every major manufacturer makes exclusively "Smart" TVs on their
| higher-end models, and those smart TVs include various bits of
| ads/tracking.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| _... hotel lobbies_
|
| Yes, this is what I look for --- a TV that is dumb as dirt
| and built to run 24/7 for years.
|
| https://www.lg.com/us/business/hospitality-
| tvs/lg-40lt340h0u...
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| "built to run 24/7 for years."
|
| There are many. They are usually not in your price range
| though.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| I have owned one of the below for several years though it
| is not my primary. I have 3 TVs in all.
|
| I paid significantly less than the $199 advertised here.
| Dumb as a rock. This brand used to be advertised toward
| hotels and cruise ships.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SC-39HS950N-1080P-LED-
| HDTV/dp/B...?
| mdoms wrote:
| They're marketed as "commercial TVs" and they often
| cheaper than the smart ones.
|
| https://www.pbtech.co.nz/search?sf=commercial+tv&search_t
| ype...
| enragedcacti wrote:
| Don't connect it to the internet? Not saying what they are
| doing isn't scummy as all hell, but aside from having to
| navigate to HDMI 1 when you turn on the TV (for the models
| who don't support setting a default on boot) that should work
| perfectly as a dumb TV.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| It's a shame Apple won't enter this market.
| gizdan wrote:
| It's not just Samsung. My parents just bought an LG TV without
| consulting with me, and it's the same thing. They spent close to
| PS1000, and now they have all sorts ads on the home screen that
| are impossible to remove, plus tracking that cannot be disabled.
| pessimizer wrote:
| This can't be true. I've been assured that if you pay for
| something, it won't track you or advertise to you.
| sebazzz wrote:
| Same on my LG OLED with latest WebOS. It starts with the six
| buttons on my remote for Disney, Netflix, Prime, etc that also
| immediately install the associated app [even when earlier
| uninstalled] when accidentally touched and cannot be remapped.
| Next, on the home screen you're always greeted with a list of
| movies from all those streaming services without the ability to
| turn this list off.
| raxxorrax wrote:
| Who even buys hardware like this?
| chrisBob wrote:
| I purchased a similar product from TCL, and for me cost was the
| main factor. It got a decent 4k TV for $500 because it is
| supported by ads and data collection. I don't keep it connected
| to the internet, and all of the content comes from my AppleTV.
| I am ok with it in my house even knowing the business model
| since I keep it offline. If they added a cellular modem I would
| reconsider.
| garciasn wrote:
| Most people. Why? A myriad of reasons, potentially, but here
| are two big ones:
|
| 1. Because ad-supported hardware makes for low prices and
| people prefer to pay less.
|
| 2. Most people are largely uncaring about seeing advertising on
| their devices. It's why less than 30% of US residents block ads
| on the web.
| mattnewton wrote:
| For #1 I've actually found it practically impossible to buy
| an equivalent consumer tv without "smart" features like this
| at any price. The only "dumb television" screens I have found
| are either large computer monitors or commercial panels with
| entirely different material tolerances and prices.
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| I'd have a lot of brand loyalty to a company whose business
| it was to manufacture very well built but ultimately "dumb"
| devices. I want a TV that's literally just a dumb panel
| that can accurately display what _I_ send to it, I want a
| car that 's purely analogue even down to the radio and
| doesn't try and do things for me unexpectedly, and I want a
| thermostat that makes a satisfying "clunk" when I turn a
| mechanical knob and has no way for my smartphone (and every
| ne'er-do-well on the internet) to connect to it.
|
| Surely there's a market outside of grumpy HN readers who
| know how the sausage is made for this kind of thing? Older
| people spring to mind, but also people living in areas of
| poor internet connectivity, people who value DIY
| repairability, and of course the ecological angle of
| avoiding the inevitable e-waste of the modern throwaway
| approach to consumer goods.
| rolph wrote:
| i start caring when ads are blocking vital portions of video
| , example:
|
| " here we, are opening the tomb of the lost king for the
| first time, what do you see howard?" " i see wonderfull
| things!"
|
| except i instead see a big banner, and a logo and a popup
| from the side, and they have zero to do with archeology or
| science and the whole point of the program has been
| obliterated.
| garciasn wrote:
| I would argue those who read HN are not 'most people', and
| if we subset those who read HN by those who comment on HN,
| I would believe my statement is even more true.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| 3. People don't know that it's there
| playpause wrote:
| People don't know that what's there?
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| ads on the tv
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > 1. Because ad-supported hardware makes for low prices and
| people prefer to pay less.
|
| Is this actually true though? I'd love to see an analysis of
| pricing in relation to the amount of adware a TV has. My gut
| instinct is that you would not see a significant price
| decrease for more adware-laden models.
| tpxl wrote:
| Let's exaggerate a bit.
|
| 365 days in a year, 5 year lifetime -> 1825 days, our
| consumer watches TV 16 hours a day -> 29200 hours watched,
| 6 commercials/hour -> 175200 commercials watched. Youtube
| pays ~4$ per 1000 views, giving us 700.8$ lifetime ad
| revenue for a very exaggerated viewer.
|
| A more normal viewer that watches say 4 hours/day, 6 days a
| week will give us a more modest ad revenue of 187.71$.
|
| Assuming the "normal viewer" is actually representative,
| the statement that ad-supported hardware is cheaper on the
| scale of 2000$ TVs is bullshit.
| dmz73 wrote:
| But when you sell 1,000,000 TV units extra 180,000,000
| profit is not insignificant.
| sorokod wrote:
| It is insignificant or even negative if you accept the
| statement that it subsidies cheaper hardware.
| afavour wrote:
| The vast majority of people. Because that's what's promoted,
| discounted and sold to them. It's getting more and more
| difficult to find a smart TV that isn't packed with shit like
| this.
| egberts1 wrote:
| LG smart TV, situated behind a DMZ firewall with only update
| server open works for me.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| The ^HA (laughing at the image above) is just... wow, even the
| person running the Twitter account thinks it's bad.
| deergomoo wrote:
| Apologies if you're joking but that's how they sign off their
| tweets--HA is the initials of the person replying.
| greenshackle2 wrote:
| I believe those are the initials of the rep who answered..
| their reply tweets have a few different ones like ^NR, ^CM,
| ^SK.
|
| https://twitter.com/SamsungUK/status/1453740985763106823
| jonatron wrote:
| There's a hidden "Hotel Mode" on many TVs. I don't know if that
| would disable ads?
| effingwewt wrote:
| Hotel mode disables options you don't want some random person
| messing with(inputs, language, etc).
|
| 'Smart' TVs are a perfect example of everything wrong with the
| business/consumer relationship.
|
| We are paying for the privilege of being spied upon more
| intrusively than ever, and the companies see us using
| workarounds and rather than stop their behavior they double
| down because what recourse does the customer have?
|
| We need fines over all of this shit. As long as it makes them
| money rather than costing them, this will continue.
| bhaile wrote:
| I use this [1] and never seen an ad on my LG TV. Its only for
| Smart TVs. It blocks all the major TV ad networks too but can't
| tell how successful it is on other TVs since I only have LG.
|
| [1] https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist
| senectus1 wrote:
| Dunno if the UK version is different to the Aussie version... but
| a pi-hole stops adverts on my samsung TV
| JokerDan wrote:
| Are there any open source hardware TVs or OSS TV OS to load on
| Samsung/LG/other smart TVs that have some (if any) traction?
| mdoms wrote:
| I never even look at the menu/home screen on my TV. I plug in a
| Chromecast, set it to the right HDMI input and cast everything I
| want to watch. Wouldn't have a clue if my TV is displaying ads in
| the menus.
| TakuYam wrote:
| A pi hole absolutely blocks all ads on Samsung smart TVs
| L_226 wrote:
| This is absolutely false.
|
| Source: I have a samsung smart TV and run a pihole
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Does that not depend on the ads?
|
| Ads on the TV = yes
|
| Ads on the individual streaming services = They change it
| around every month or so
| djbusby wrote:
| Lots of these panels have no "smarts"
| https://m.alibaba.com/showroom/4k-display.html
| junon wrote:
| I called Samsung once for my smart TV that was showing ads that
| slowed everything down when they rotated out. Told them I just
| spent north of a grand on their TV (circa 2016) and that I didn't
| pay for ads.
|
| Lo and behold, the service technician suggested I simply disable
| the internet on the TV and that they'd happily help me with that.
| Of course I didn't (I hung up on them), but out of curiosity I
| disabled the WLAN on it anyway and restarted it just to see what
| happened.
|
| The ads were cached. There is absolutely no way to escape the ads
| on Samsung's TVs. I'll never buy another Samsung product again -
| it's my belief those sorts of practices are indicative much more
| sinister, less obvious anti-consumer practices.
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