[HN Gopher] Samsung UK admits you can't disable ads on Samsung s...
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       Samsung UK admits you can't disable ads on Samsung smart TV
        
       Author : NKosmatos
       Score  : 158 points
       Date   : 2021-10-28 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | cryptodan wrote:
       | Use pihole?
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | My recommendations for how to deal with this shit, in decreasing
       | order of effectiveness:
       | 
       | 1. Don't buy a Samsung or LG TV. Unfortunately, if you're in the
       | market for a real high-end TV, you often don't have another
       | option
       | 
       | 2. Never connect it to the internet and use a dedicated streaming
       | box/stick instead. If you don't have one, or don't want to give
       | up a HDMI port...
       | 
       | 3. Block the following domains on your router or via a free
       | OpenDNS account:
       | 
       | - ads.samsung.com
       | 
       | - config.samsungads.com
       | 
       | - doubleclick.net
       | 
       | - gpm.samsungqbe.com
       | 
       | - log-config.samsungacr.com
       | 
       | - samsungacr.com
       | 
       | - samsungads.com
       | 
       | - samsungosp.com
       | 
       | - samsungotn.net
       | 
       | - samsungrm.net
       | 
       | - tvx.adgrx.com
       | 
       | No more ads.
       | 
       | This shit makes my blood boil. I have a laundry list of issues
       | with this TV, which is a shame because when it's not actively
       | trying to make me hate the company it's actually a very nice
       | display. LG pull this shit too, but I think they're slightly less
       | awful than Samsung. I didn't particularly want an OLED panel
       | which is why I went for a Samsung LCD, and I regret that decision
       | regularly.
        
         | acoard wrote:
         | My understanding is this is what Amazon Sidewalk is, at least
         | in part, about. Your TV could easily bypass your network, and
         | connect through your neighbours Echo. If I understand, it's
         | opt-out and enabled by default. So, essentially Samsung will
         | pay Amazon a few bucks a months to show you ads regardless of
         | how you've locked down your network, because your neighbour
         | hasn't locked down his.
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=UTF8&node=213281...
        
         | tristor wrote:
         | 4. All of the above.
         | 
         | Ironically, Vizio TVs (one of the budget brands) seem to be one
         | of the least aggressive about trying to display ads in ways
         | which are difficult to bypass. That's what I bought and I don't
         | connect it to the network, and I block these ad domains (among
         | others) network-wide.
        
         | snug wrote:
         | Where does LG do it? Honestly I've had two LGs for about 4
         | years now and have not noticed any ads, maybe some in their
         | content store, but that's about it. Overall pretty happy with
         | LG
        
         | mikeryan wrote:
         | The problem with trying to avoid the current smart TVs is that
         | the industry has started to subsidize the pricing by selling
         | viewing data. It's going to be harder moving forward to compete
         | on price without having "smart" features that are really a shim
         | for getting the analytics and tracking packages in there.
         | 
         | I've been running a pihole on my home network which also
         | actually removes a lot of client side inserted ads during video
         | playback which is another huge upside.
        
           | azemetre wrote:
           | There is away around this, consistently pressure and lobby
           | our governments to make this illegal or mandate that they
           | provide dumb TVs as well.
           | 
           | Change doesn't happen instantly but a dedicated lobbying
           | campaign and activism will yield results.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | What frustrates me is the lack of options and lack of
           | transparency. Amazon do it right with the Kindle imo--you can
           | get it with ads or pay slightly more and get it without.
           | 
           | My other issue is that I find ads on something that costs >
           | PS1000 to be incredibly distasteful. If it was some bargain
           | basement thing fine, but this is meant to be top tier.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | Conversely, the advertisers are becoming increasingly less
             | hesitant about doing what they want: exploiting high-end
             | products instead of low-end products. The fact that you
             | just spent north of PS1k on a TV is an unambiguous proof
             | you're much more lucrative target for advertising than
             | someone who only buys the cheapest things available.
             | 
             | This is why "pay XOR ads" is a pipe dream: vendors will
             | always turn it into "pay AND ads", because selecting for
             | people with disposable income makes ROI on advertising much
             | better.
        
               | Silhouette wrote:
               | But that only works as long as everyone is at it. As soon
               | as you have one brand that makes a point of not doing
               | anything like that and just providing good quality gear,
               | the market of people with enough money to feature in this
               | part of the discussion has another option they may well
               | prefer. And if people buy Apple gear, no-one is
               | convincing me that such a brand couldn't sell a TV with
               | $1000 hardware specs and no junk at $1200 or even $1500
               | to that market.
        
         | kloch wrote:
         | Is HDMI-CEC (Anynet+ on Samsung) a security/privacy risk also?
         | I remember reading something about it being able to leverage
         | connected devices Internet access a long time ago but I can NOT
         | find anything to substantiate that now.
         | 
         | I do disable HDMI-CEC anyway just to stop user-hostile features
         | like Hulu on Roku disabling the input select button on the TV
         | remote.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | Ethernet over HDMI is totally a thing but I have no idea if
           | the ports in their TVs are wired for it.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | I recently searched for this and couldn't find any device
             | that actually implements this. In any case, Ethernet over
             | HDMI still requires one of the HDMI devices to be connected
             | to the network via some other way and bridge the HDMI
             | connection with that network as to give the other HDMI
             | device a way out. So something like an Apple TV which has
             | no incentive to help spyware should be safe.
        
         | MomoXenosaga wrote:
         | I have an LG TV and never seen an ad. Just don't go into their
         | store or home screen. Launch the app you want directly.
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | Is there a UK available streaming device that supports:
         | 
         | - AirPlay (audio/video)
         | 
         | - Spotify Connect
         | 
         | - YouTube 4K
         | 
         | - USB MP4 (& MKV)
         | 
         | - Netflix 4K
         | 
         | - Amazon Prime 4K
         | 
         | And is super polished & responsive? If so I'd be interested,
         | but my LG TV, crummy as its ads are, does all this out the box.
         | I'd happily pay some money to have more control.
        
           | neilalexander wrote:
           | Aside from USB playback, an Apple TV 4K can solve most of
           | this. (I don't know about Spotify Connect but assume it works
           | with AirPlay if not).
        
             | drcongo wrote:
             | Yeah, I have an Apple TV 4K on my LG dumb TV which does all
             | this (AirPlay also being far superior to Spotify Connect),
             | though it's the dumb TV that will play back anything off a
             | USB stick. Willing to bet this TV outlasts a "smart"
             | Samsung by many years.
        
             | antihero wrote:
             | Yeah the USB is the kicker. I want to avoid using some crap
             | like Plex, so unless there's a super simple and reliable
             | way of streaming 4K MKVs over the network it is nice to use
             | the pendrive.
             | 
             | I suppose the TV can still use the pendrive even offline,
             | actually.
             | 
             | What advantages does an AppleTV 4K (PS169) have over a Roku
             | Streaming Stick+ (PS45)?
        
               | charwalker wrote:
               | Not sure about the Plex flack here, 4k is fine if not
               | transcoded and sits happily in its own library.
        
               | drcongo wrote:
               | I own both, and the Roku is slow, buggy and has really
               | horrible UX. It doesn't get used at all.
        
               | varenc wrote:
               | I stream 4K MKVs from my phone (an iPhone) to my Apple TV
               | 4K using AirPlay all the time. It used to be a challenge
               | getting the codecs right, but there's broader support
               | now. It took awhile to find a good iOS app that supports
               | this, but once I found nPlayer[0] I've never gone back.
               | It's faarrr better than the VLC iOS app.
               | 
               | It works quite well even when my phone is streaming media
               | that's on cloud storage somewhere (nPlayer supports
               | many). But for optimal playback I download the file to my
               | device first.
               | 
               | Of course if you want Dolby Atmos sound, I think you're
               | out of luck. I think HDR should work but not sure.
               | 
               | [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nplayer-
               | plus/id539397400#?plat...
               | 
               | edit: You can also install app on the ATV that accesses
               | files stored over the network/internet as well, like VLC
               | for ATV. Though I've never found a great one.
        
               | jjp wrote:
               | App to access files over the network. I think Infuse is
               | pretty good. It supports NAS and if your files are well
               | named then pulls in meta/artwork. Can also be a front-end
               | for Ember/Jellyfin/Plex, but for my LAN media I'm
               | currently going with DLNA.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | I did not realize this was an option, thank you for your
               | comment
        
               | neilalexander wrote:
               | You can get VLC on Apple TV which makes streaming most
               | things on the LAN simple enough but yeah, just using the
               | USB port on the TV would probably work for that use case.
               | The UI is miles better on the Apple TV and the remotes
               | are very good, but you do need to create/use an Apple
               | account in order to download things (like Netflix,
               | YouTube, Amazon Prime etc.) from the App Store.
        
           | short12 wrote:
           | A large amount of Kodi/android based tv boxes support that.
           | For example pentoo devices
        
           | LeoPanthera wrote:
           | You can do it all with two streaming devices, an Apple TV,
           | and a Raspberry Pi running LibreElec:
           | 
           | https://libreelec.tv
           | 
           | And the Raspberry Pi is $35 so it's not a hugely expensive
           | addition.
        
             | Mindwipe wrote:
             | The Pi doesn't support 4K Netflix, 4K Amazon or full fat
             | Airplay.
        
               | LeoPanthera wrote:
               | ...that would be why I said that and an Apple TV.
        
           | devmunchies wrote:
           | I'm using a Mac mini. Just have a wireless mouse and
           | keyboard. Much more versatile than a streaming device. It's
           | nice being able to zoom from it with family or coworkers.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | That would probably cost you more than the TV itself.
        
               | devmunchies wrote:
               | Use it for work at night too. I'm fortunate enough to
               | hardly consider price for my priorities (performance, ad-
               | free, versatility).
        
             | Mindwipe wrote:
             | Doesn't support Amazon 4K from that list.
        
           | OnlyMortal wrote:
           | Roku, I believe, would be something to look at.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | As others have said the Apple TV gets you most of the way
           | there--presumably you can do USB playback from the TV without
           | connecting to the network?
        
             | antihero wrote:
             | I can, shame it doesn't support MKV properly, though!
        
               | dhritzkiv wrote:
               | Third party apps from the App Store, such as VLC, will
               | play MKVs (and other formats) no problem.
               | 
               | I used to re-encode MKVs to MP4s for playback on the
               | AppleTV 3rd gen, but since getting the Apple TV 4K (2nd
               | gen), I simply shuttle over the MKVs to VLC from the web
               | interface.
        
               | nikon wrote:
               | Use Plex
        
           | breakingcups wrote:
           | With the exception of AirPlay, the Nvidia Shield seems to fit
           | the bill.
           | 
           | There are AirPlay receivers for the Shield IIRC but they are
           | unofficial and unsupported.
        
           | gmac wrote:
           | I think maybe a Roku Streaming Stick 4K will do everything
           | there except the USB? (I don't have one but have been
           | considering one; I have a 5-year-old LG Blu-Ray player that
           | covers USB and DLNA pretty well).
        
           | Mindwipe wrote:
           | I don't think so, but a Sony Android TV would also meet these
           | requirements.
           | 
           | HN is generally down on integrated TVs, but the truth is that
           | they're honestly fine nowadays, and much more likely to have
           | robust integration of services than boxes are. And if support
           | goes downhill after a while, you can buy a box then when
           | there will maybe be better options.
        
         | deadmutex wrote:
         | For #1, maybe these can be good substitutes:
         | 
         | https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
        
           | zeusk wrote:
           | Absolutely not, their panels suck.
           | 
           | The only budget manufacturers that give two shit about
           | quality seem to be Hisense, TCL and Vizio.
        
       | beerandt wrote:
       | When I shopped TVs a few years ago, Sony was the only consumer
       | brand that didn't have ToS that included language about this type
       | of advertising. I'm not sure if that's changed. They still spy on
       | you plenty, though.
       | 
       | That's what we bought, but we still don't connect it to a network
       | and only use hdmi inputs. Plus disabled quite a few apps via adb,
       | and don't update the software.
       | 
       | It's sad that this is what it's come to.
       | 
       | I also suspect that at least Android devices are starting to use
       | other (Android) network devices as proxies to get data to Google
       | when they've been firewalled with only LAN access.
       | 
       | Lots of unexplained data getting transferred on my home network
       | between firewalled Android devices.
       | 
       | But maybe the state of things just has me being overly paranoid.
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | While it will hopefully remain one way, it's a matter of time
         | the TV will receive updates and ads over DVB or other broadcast
         | mediums.
         | 
         | Could even geo-target ads. TV could figure out its location by
         | GPS, multilateration of DVB signal strengths, what wifi is
         | around, or purchase/delivery information (you didn't stupidly
         | get your 85" TV delivered to your own house, did you???).
         | 
         | Would be cool to have on-demand TV or other data distribution
         | given how much spectrum is available on DVB-T.
         | 
         | Just like satellite Set top boxes.
        
           | beerandt wrote:
           | Yeah- I suspect the push for Ethernet over hdmi has a lot to
           | do with getting all these "unplugged" smart devices
           | reconnected to a network.
        
           | orev wrote:
           | This is the holy grail for mobile carriers -- have enough
           | bandwidth in 5G where devices will come with mobile data
           | already activated without user intervention at all.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | They could have done that today with 3G if they wanted,
             | they just choose not to.
             | 
             | Tons of unused spectrum overnight that should cost nearly
             | $0, but they choose not to because we market prices would
             | be bad for telecoms so it's not on offer.
        
         | post_break wrote:
         | I have a 2020 high end Samsung TV. I haven't agreed to the TOS
         | since taking it out of the box and it still works just fine.
        
         | ssully wrote:
         | I got a Sony 2 years ago and haven't had any add issues.
         | 
         | Outside of being picky on what brands to choose from, the next
         | best thing is to just never use the "smart" features and rely
         | on a third party box like Roku/Apple TV/Pi/Etc. I know some
         | smart TV adds will still throw ad's in the menus, but you
         | shouldn't have to use the menu's that frequently.
        
       | cronix wrote:
       | I think the only way to sanely and safely use a modern "smart" tv
       | is to use it as a "dumb" monitor. How ironic. Never use the
       | software, except once to select HDMI 1 as the input, or whatever.
       | That's the last time you'll see their cumbersome interface, or
       | ads, or anything else that you didn't explicitly send to it.
        
       | jqpabc123 wrote:
       | "Smart TV" means "smart" for the manufacturer. For the user, it's
       | pretty "dumb" to let the manufacturer invade your privacy on
       | _your_ TV.
       | 
       | Thank you Samsung but no thanks. Any "smarts" I need from my TV,
       | I will add myself. This way, I know exactly what I am getting.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | Unless you're using a disconnected TV (i.e., no
         | CATV/SATV/Internet), your viewing habits are being tracked and
         | sold.
        
           | FabHK wrote:
           | Can I assume that a modern TV I buy works without internet?
           | (I'd just want it to display stuff I feed it via HDMI or
           | whatever).
        
             | ReidZB wrote:
             | I have a couple modern LG 'smart' TVs that I don't connect
             | to the internet, and they work just fine. As you say, they
             | just display whatever is on the HDMI input.
             | 
             | I've updated their firmware a couple times. I connect them
             | with wired cat6 on their own isolated VLAN to update, and
             | then disconnect them afterwards. Maybe I am a little
             | unnecessarily paranoid about it, but I don't really trust
             | TV manufacturers, not with some of the (maybe apocryphal)
             | stories I've read.
        
               | snvzz wrote:
               | No, you're not being paranoid.
               | 
               | This is the only way. And beware, they might still be
               | connecting to some public wifi hotspot behind your back.
        
               | Freak_NL wrote:
               | Why even bother with firmware updates for a disconnected
               | device? Did they bring any benefits?
        
               | ReidZB wrote:
               | Yep! I've had two nasty bugs (intermittent audio dropping
               | and HDMI CEC power off being broken) that were fixed by
               | firmware updates.
               | 
               | I don't keep the firmware preemptively updated, though. I
               | just did it as a debugging step in trying to fix some
               | problems, and shockingly it did both times.
        
               | Freak_NL wrote:
               | Ah, it makes sense in that case.
               | 
               | I have a decade old Sony Bravia that we got because it
               | supported DVB-T (terrestrial digital television; now no
               | longer in use because of a switch to DVB-T2) without the
               | need for a set-top box. It has an Ethernet jack, but
               | other than some experimentation after we got it I never
               | connected it. I can't imagine ever trying to update its
               | firmware at this point; no reward and plenty of risk.
               | After DVB-T went we just stopped watching broadcast
               | television, and this early 'smart' TV only gets turned on
               | sitting on the HDMI input it gets from a receiver hooked
               | up to loudspeakers and an HTPC with Netflix in a browser
               | and other media. Of all its features the on/off button on
               | the side is the only thing interacted with now. I've
               | stopped repairing the remote years ago.
               | 
               | I fully expect it to just die one of these days, and it
               | will probably be the last smart TV we'll ever own.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Probably because they ship beta devices as production
               | quality.
        
             | gpvos wrote:
             | There have been stories that soon, TVs will come with a
             | built-in mobile chip, or will try to connect to open wifi
             | networks even if you don't configure them to. I don't know
             | how much truth is in those stories, but I wouldn't put it
             | past the TV manufacturers to do so.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | They don't even need to do that. Just contract with local
               | TV networks to send data over their OTA TV streams that
               | gets routed to the TV's CPU instead of video decoder.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | ???
               | 
               | Routing data to the CPU wouldn't make much difference
               | without a network connection to transmit the data back to
               | central collection point.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | The endpoint is to deliver new and targeted ads. And
               | firmware updates.
               | 
               | Tracking won't work without a phone home though. But
               | that's a solved problem. We've been delivering ads for a
               | while without 100% knowing which are watched.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >SATV
           | 
           | Do satellite TV boxes even have an uplink connection? AFAIK
           | the satellite dish is one direction only.
        
             | murderfs wrote:
             | Lots of them require periodic internet access for
             | distribution of key material.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Isn't that sent over the air?
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Even 1990s systems would have a 2400bps modem to phone in
             | pay per view purchases.
             | 
             | Policy requires a telephone connection, partly for the
             | purpose of reducing subscription sharing.
             | 
             | Pirates and many others wouldn't or couldn't plug them in.
             | 
             | Once an update was built to check for a dial tone
             | intermittently and eventually deactivate, so pirates
             | created a 555 timer device with a 9V battery to generate a
             | frequency close to the dialtone. Even though a dialtone is
             | 2 frequencies, the modem accepted any single frequency
             | remotely close to the right range.
             | 
             | At some point, the provider would call subscribers with
             | several boxes on the same sub that didn't phone home and
             | ask for "secret" numbers from all receivers, but someone
             | quickly published a program that generated those keys.
             | Saves legit customers from walking around the house too.
             | 
             | Fun times.
        
             | rjsw wrote:
             | My satellite TV box has an ethernet port on the back.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | A lot of what I watch is digital broadcast TV. And the only
           | connection my TV has is through HDMI to my computer. Even my
           | dual ATSC broadcast tuner is driven by my PC so I can do all
           | sorts of "smart" stuff like picture in a picture, split
           | screen or watch one channel while recording another.
           | 
           | Privacy is only half the issue. Freedom is the other half.
           | Most manufacturers control what you're allowed to install on
           | _your_ "smart" TV. And most can't record either.
           | 
           | How "dumb" is that?
        
           | enragedcacti wrote:
           | Roku TVs have this turned on by default but it is pretty easy
           | to disable in settings.
           | 
           | Exercise to the reader to see what is still sent when it's
           | disabled.
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
       | Why is that legal?
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | My next TV will be a Samsung or LG.
       | 
       | Is there a Pi-hole version running on a something that I can PoE
       | plug into the ethernet port of a TV?
        
       | stevespang wrote:
       | But you can block the ip that those ads are coming from, even
       | better is vote your wallet by NOT BUYING anything Samsung.
        
       | Nextgrid wrote:
       | I've recently been in the market for a display and had good luck
       | with Sony's professional displays. I ended up going for this one:
       | https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays/fw-65bz40h which was
       | very competitive on price with consumer-grade models of similar
       | spec despite being a professional display.
       | 
       | It's just got a stock Android TV, a Sony privacy policy popup
       | which you can decline (no idea what I'm missing out on -
       | declining skips some steps during set up) and some professional
       | apps such as Crestron screen sharing, Airplay, etc.
       | 
       | It's not a TV and doesn't have any consumer-grade apps
       | preinstalled, but there is a Google Play store icon so I'm pretty
       | sure you can install Netflix on it if you wanted to.
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | My girlfriend likes to watch ALL the streamers. I have a "no
       | smart TVs" rule for our home because of shit like this.
       | 
       | We made it work by buying an Apple TV and a Sceptre dumb TV off
       | Walmart's web site. Sceptre allegedly has picture quality
       | problems, but the picture looks great; if certain shades of blue
       | turn up 5 nits too dim I haven't noticed.
        
       | drcongo wrote:
       | I wrote this [1] seven years ago and the future I feared is now
       | here. I lucked out finding a 4K LG dumb TV about three years ago,
       | but I've recently been trying to buy a larger screen for a new
       | house and cannot find a single good, large, dumb TV for sale in
       | the UK.
       | 
       | [1] https://andybeaumont.com/post/dumb-tv/
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | Are there any open source TV firmware projects? Think OpenWRT for
       | your TV.
        
         | Mindwipe wrote:
         | It wouldn't have any of the DRM keys for mainstream services.
        
       | gdulli wrote:
       | Is this a Samsung app that you would never see if you have no
       | interest in smart apps and leave your TV off the internet?
       | Because if so that's easily avoided, Netflix would also profile
       | me and advertise content to me through its app, and I don't plan
       | to ever open that one either.
       | 
       | This screenshot looks like a streaming content interface, and
       | data mining you has been a fundamental part of all these services
       | for years, right? Not saying it's great, just that this isn't new
       | or unusual. Of course they're tracking what you watch for
       | advertising purposes.
       | 
       | Or is this a fundamental part of the UI for a Samsung TV that you
       | need to interact with for daily use even if you don't want
       | content through Samsung? Because that would be unacceptable. I
       | wouldn't buy a TV if it required an internet connection to
       | function.
       | 
       | My favorite type of advertising is traditional TV commercials
       | that can be fast forwarded or muted and fully skipped. There's
       | never going to be a net decrease in advertising. Digital and
       | streaming are just making it harder to skip, keep strictly
       | separate from content, and receive anonymously.
        
         | mithusingh32 wrote:
         | It's not.
         | 
         | For example when pausing a Hulu stream on my Samsung TV....I'll
         | get an ad for random crap (sometimes for things placed in a
         | show) ok my pause screen.
         | 
         | Samsung TVs are basically giant billboard you pay to have in
         | your home.
        
           | Ansil849 wrote:
           | > Samsung TVs are basically giant billboard you pay to have
           | in your home.
           | 
           | You say this, and yet you have one in your home. And this
           | contradiction is why these things continue to thrive: because
           | even people who care...also don't care.
        
             | mithusingh32 wrote:
             | People like me are stuck. Not like we can return the TV's
             | after years of owning them.
        
               | Ansil849 wrote:
               | You could sell it on the secondary market (either whole
               | or piecemeal) and use the money towards purchasing an
               | alternate?
        
           | gdulli wrote:
           | If that's Samsung interjecting onto other apps, that's
           | horrible. I guess if it's Hulu it's still horrible, but feels
           | less chaotic and it's easier to reason about whether the Hulu
           | value prop alone is worthwhile given the price vs. ads.
        
         | Ansil849 wrote:
         | > Is this a Samsung app that you would never see if you have no
         | interest in smart apps and leave your TV off the internet?
         | Because if so that's easily avoided
         | 
         | So the problem with this approach is that, yes sure if you have
         | the technical acumen you can prevent the TV from phoning home,
         | but you are still giving money to the company that engages in
         | this kind of behavior. And that money contributes to them
         | developing more intrusive tools like this that target consumers
         | of their products who do not have the requisite technical
         | acumen to prevent the TV from phoning home.
         | 
         | In other words, by buying an adware TV and disabling the
         | adware, you're still supporting the adware company instead of
         | just buying a TV without adware in the first place.
        
           | gdulli wrote:
           | I have a Vizio TV that's never been on the internet. I've
           | never opened its apps and don't know what it is I'm avoiding.
           | Given my other product requirements for a TV, eliminating all
           | that have smart apps would probably leave me with no choices.
           | 
           | Ironically I have a Samsung phone because I wouldn't give
           | money to Google for hardware. We're just surrounded and
           | choosing the lesser of various evils every day.
        
             | Ansil849 wrote:
             | > eliminating all that have smart apps would probably leave
             | me with no choices
             | 
             | I really don't understand why otherwise tech-savvy users
             | start acting like generic deer-in-the-headlights consumer
             | tropes when faced with the prospect of TV sets. All you
             | have to do is a basic web query for "best dumb TVs" and
             | you'll find sites listing all manner of models and options.
        
               | gdulli wrote:
               | I just looked at two of those lists and 100% of the
               | options listed were from companies that also make smart
               | TVs, which violates what you said: "you are still giving
               | money to the company that engages in this kind of
               | behavior".
               | 
               | I don't mind if they sell a bunch of smart TVs where they
               | never capture the revenue they expect from apps, and it
               | hurts their conversion and engagement metrics.
        
       | humps wrote:
       | On the Samsung TVs I own, when you first set it up there's a
       | yes/no agreement screen and if you choose "no" none of the smart
       | features are accessible and you don't get any phoning home or ads
       | by simply not entering Wi-Fi details. I haven't bought a new TV
       | for a few years, though. So this may be different now, but the
       | best way I found to create a dumb TV experience.
        
         | wombat-man wrote:
         | yeah I have a cheaper vizio and I found that just not
         | connecting it to wifi is a much better experience. the 'smart
         | tv' features are not very good compared to a dedicated
         | chromecast anyways.
        
         | throw10920 wrote:
         | This is what I did for my TV, as well. Unfortunately, they'll
         | eventually do something about it - they'll make pop-ups that
         | appear continually until you sign in, or straight-up disable
         | critical features. Just like jailbreaking, this is just a hack
         | that happens to work for the time being - the only long-term
         | solution is to vote with your wallet, lobby for regulation, or
         | (ideally) both.
        
           | httgp wrote:
           | My LG TV wouldn't upgrade without me consenting to it.
        
             | bombela wrote:
             | Mine wouldn't even boot out of the box without agreeing to
             | the terms. Saying no would just turn it off.
        
         | bsd44 wrote:
         | I recently bought a Samsung 4K TV and it came with a "free tv"
         | service (that's also crammed with ads). It's intrusive, it
         | auto-plays and can't be disabled and I just don't want it. I've
         | never owned a TV as an adult before and was interested in
         | buying a video console to play some games, so it's kind of my
         | fault for not understanding how these modern TVs work. But even
         | so, if I'm paying PS600 for a TV how is it acceptable to have
         | all this nonsense pre-installed on it that can't be disabled or
         | deleted? Nowhere on the sales page does it mention any of that
         | and all the reviews seems to be from happy people on day 1 of
         | purchase. The only way around it is to connect up a third party
         | receiver to it such as Amazon Fire TV or Apple TV...but still
         | feel cheated as a consumer if I have to do that.
        
           | intricatedetail wrote:
           | People should start making complaints to trading standards
           | and simply return these as not fit for purpose.
        
         | gpvos wrote:
         | Which features _are_ still accessible? Only HDMI input, or
         | more?
        
           | wombat-man wrote:
           | yeah you should be able to still watch OTA tv channels. Hdmi
           | cable boxes should of course work. same with picture
           | adjustment
        
           | tomc1985 wrote:
           | I do this with my several-years-old Samsung as well. Inputs,
           | menus, TV tuner, and the OTA program guide all work. No smart
           | apps and no ads.
        
       | Scorpiion wrote:
       | Does anyone know if newer Philips smart TVs have this type of
       | ads? I have one that's around 4 years old and it doesn't have it,
       | not sure with newer ones.
        
       | beebeepka wrote:
       | I feel there must be a non insignificant market for TV sized
       | monitors, or something like dumb TVs with high end panels.
       | 
       | Industrial offerings were severely overpriced last time I
       | checked.
       | 
       | I know I am hardly in the majority but having an actual computer
       | hooked to your big panel is so much better than dealing with
       | "apps" and ads.
       | 
       | How hard is it to make a profit selling a TV sized monitor?
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | It has been painfully admitted and the confession is in public.
       | 
       | Samsung's smart TVs are watching you watch TV. Time to watch
       | something else with a different brand?
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | What's the alternative? Unless you're buying TVs specifically
         | made for office meeting rooms or hotel lobbies, pretty much
         | every major manufacturer makes exclusively "Smart" TVs on their
         | higher-end models, and those smart TVs include various bits of
         | ads/tracking.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | _... hotel lobbies_
           | 
           | Yes, this is what I look for --- a TV that is dumb as dirt
           | and built to run 24/7 for years.
           | 
           | https://www.lg.com/us/business/hospitality-
           | tvs/lg-40lt340h0u...
        
             | KingOfCoders wrote:
             | "built to run 24/7 for years."
             | 
             | There are many. They are usually not in your price range
             | though.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | I have owned one of the below for several years though it
               | is not my primary. I have 3 TVs in all.
               | 
               | I paid significantly less than the $199 advertised here.
               | Dumb as a rock. This brand used to be advertised toward
               | hotels and cruise ships.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SC-39HS950N-1080P-LED-
               | HDTV/dp/B...?
        
               | mdoms wrote:
               | They're marketed as "commercial TVs" and they often
               | cheaper than the smart ones.
               | 
               | https://www.pbtech.co.nz/search?sf=commercial+tv&search_t
               | ype...
        
           | enragedcacti wrote:
           | Don't connect it to the internet? Not saying what they are
           | doing isn't scummy as all hell, but aside from having to
           | navigate to HDMI 1 when you turn on the TV (for the models
           | who don't support setting a default on boot) that should work
           | perfectly as a dumb TV.
        
       | tonyedgecombe wrote:
       | It's a shame Apple won't enter this market.
        
       | gizdan wrote:
       | It's not just Samsung. My parents just bought an LG TV without
       | consulting with me, and it's the same thing. They spent close to
       | PS1000, and now they have all sorts ads on the home screen that
       | are impossible to remove, plus tracking that cannot be disabled.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | This can't be true. I've been assured that if you pay for
       | something, it won't track you or advertise to you.
        
       | sebazzz wrote:
       | Same on my LG OLED with latest WebOS. It starts with the six
       | buttons on my remote for Disney, Netflix, Prime, etc that also
       | immediately install the associated app [even when earlier
       | uninstalled] when accidentally touched and cannot be remapped.
       | Next, on the home screen you're always greeted with a list of
       | movies from all those streaming services without the ability to
       | turn this list off.
        
       | raxxorrax wrote:
       | Who even buys hardware like this?
        
         | chrisBob wrote:
         | I purchased a similar product from TCL, and for me cost was the
         | main factor. It got a decent 4k TV for $500 because it is
         | supported by ads and data collection. I don't keep it connected
         | to the internet, and all of the content comes from my AppleTV.
         | I am ok with it in my house even knowing the business model
         | since I keep it offline. If they added a cellular modem I would
         | reconsider.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | Most people. Why? A myriad of reasons, potentially, but here
         | are two big ones:
         | 
         | 1. Because ad-supported hardware makes for low prices and
         | people prefer to pay less.
         | 
         | 2. Most people are largely uncaring about seeing advertising on
         | their devices. It's why less than 30% of US residents block ads
         | on the web.
        
           | mattnewton wrote:
           | For #1 I've actually found it practically impossible to buy
           | an equivalent consumer tv without "smart" features like this
           | at any price. The only "dumb television" screens I have found
           | are either large computer monitors or commercial panels with
           | entirely different material tolerances and prices.
        
             | BoxOfRain wrote:
             | I'd have a lot of brand loyalty to a company whose business
             | it was to manufacture very well built but ultimately "dumb"
             | devices. I want a TV that's literally just a dumb panel
             | that can accurately display what _I_ send to it, I want a
             | car that 's purely analogue even down to the radio and
             | doesn't try and do things for me unexpectedly, and I want a
             | thermostat that makes a satisfying "clunk" when I turn a
             | mechanical knob and has no way for my smartphone (and every
             | ne'er-do-well on the internet) to connect to it.
             | 
             | Surely there's a market outside of grumpy HN readers who
             | know how the sausage is made for this kind of thing? Older
             | people spring to mind, but also people living in areas of
             | poor internet connectivity, people who value DIY
             | repairability, and of course the ecological angle of
             | avoiding the inevitable e-waste of the modern throwaway
             | approach to consumer goods.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | i start caring when ads are blocking vital portions of video
           | , example:
           | 
           | " here we, are opening the tomb of the lost king for the
           | first time, what do you see howard?" " i see wonderfull
           | things!"
           | 
           | except i instead see a big banner, and a logo and a popup
           | from the side, and they have zero to do with archeology or
           | science and the whole point of the program has been
           | obliterated.
        
             | garciasn wrote:
             | I would argue those who read HN are not 'most people', and
             | if we subset those who read HN by those who comment on HN,
             | I would believe my statement is even more true.
        
           | spywaregorilla wrote:
           | 3. People don't know that it's there
        
             | playpause wrote:
             | People don't know that what's there?
        
               | spywaregorilla wrote:
               | ads on the tv
        
           | Ansil849 wrote:
           | > 1. Because ad-supported hardware makes for low prices and
           | people prefer to pay less.
           | 
           | Is this actually true though? I'd love to see an analysis of
           | pricing in relation to the amount of adware a TV has. My gut
           | instinct is that you would not see a significant price
           | decrease for more adware-laden models.
        
             | tpxl wrote:
             | Let's exaggerate a bit.
             | 
             | 365 days in a year, 5 year lifetime -> 1825 days, our
             | consumer watches TV 16 hours a day -> 29200 hours watched,
             | 6 commercials/hour -> 175200 commercials watched. Youtube
             | pays ~4$ per 1000 views, giving us 700.8$ lifetime ad
             | revenue for a very exaggerated viewer.
             | 
             | A more normal viewer that watches say 4 hours/day, 6 days a
             | week will give us a more modest ad revenue of 187.71$.
             | 
             | Assuming the "normal viewer" is actually representative,
             | the statement that ad-supported hardware is cheaper on the
             | scale of 2000$ TVs is bullshit.
        
               | dmz73 wrote:
               | But when you sell 1,000,000 TV units extra 180,000,000
               | profit is not insignificant.
        
               | sorokod wrote:
               | It is insignificant or even negative if you accept the
               | statement that it subsidies cheaper hardware.
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | The vast majority of people. Because that's what's promoted,
         | discounted and sold to them. It's getting more and more
         | difficult to find a smart TV that isn't packed with shit like
         | this.
        
       | egberts1 wrote:
       | LG smart TV, situated behind a DMZ firewall with only update
       | server open works for me.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | The ^HA (laughing at the image above) is just... wow, even the
       | person running the Twitter account thinks it's bad.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | Apologies if you're joking but that's how they sign off their
         | tweets--HA is the initials of the person replying.
        
         | greenshackle2 wrote:
         | I believe those are the initials of the rep who answered..
         | their reply tweets have a few different ones like ^NR, ^CM,
         | ^SK.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/SamsungUK/status/1453740985763106823
        
       | jonatron wrote:
       | There's a hidden "Hotel Mode" on many TVs. I don't know if that
       | would disable ads?
        
         | effingwewt wrote:
         | Hotel mode disables options you don't want some random person
         | messing with(inputs, language, etc).
         | 
         | 'Smart' TVs are a perfect example of everything wrong with the
         | business/consumer relationship.
         | 
         | We are paying for the privilege of being spied upon more
         | intrusively than ever, and the companies see us using
         | workarounds and rather than stop their behavior they double
         | down because what recourse does the customer have?
         | 
         | We need fines over all of this shit. As long as it makes them
         | money rather than costing them, this will continue.
        
       | bhaile wrote:
       | I use this [1] and never seen an ad on my LG TV. Its only for
       | Smart TVs. It blocks all the major TV ad networks too but can't
       | tell how successful it is on other TVs since I only have LG.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist
        
       | senectus1 wrote:
       | Dunno if the UK version is different to the Aussie version... but
       | a pi-hole stops adverts on my samsung TV
        
       | JokerDan wrote:
       | Are there any open source hardware TVs or OSS TV OS to load on
       | Samsung/LG/other smart TVs that have some (if any) traction?
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | I never even look at the menu/home screen on my TV. I plug in a
       | Chromecast, set it to the right HDMI input and cast everything I
       | want to watch. Wouldn't have a clue if my TV is displaying ads in
       | the menus.
        
       | TakuYam wrote:
       | A pi hole absolutely blocks all ads on Samsung smart TVs
        
         | L_226 wrote:
         | This is absolutely false.
         | 
         | Source: I have a samsung smart TV and run a pihole
        
           | bennyp101 wrote:
           | Does that not depend on the ads?
           | 
           | Ads on the TV = yes
           | 
           | Ads on the individual streaming services = They change it
           | around every month or so
        
       | djbusby wrote:
       | Lots of these panels have no "smarts"
       | https://m.alibaba.com/showroom/4k-display.html
        
       | junon wrote:
       | I called Samsung once for my smart TV that was showing ads that
       | slowed everything down when they rotated out. Told them I just
       | spent north of a grand on their TV (circa 2016) and that I didn't
       | pay for ads.
       | 
       | Lo and behold, the service technician suggested I simply disable
       | the internet on the TV and that they'd happily help me with that.
       | Of course I didn't (I hung up on them), but out of curiosity I
       | disabled the WLAN on it anyway and restarted it just to see what
       | happened.
       | 
       | The ads were cached. There is absolutely no way to escape the ads
       | on Samsung's TVs. I'll never buy another Samsung product again -
       | it's my belief those sorts of practices are indicative much more
       | sinister, less obvious anti-consumer practices.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-28 23:02 UTC)