[HN Gopher] Blender 3.x roadmap
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Blender 3.x roadmap
        
       Author : homarp
       Score  : 336 points
       Date   : 2021-10-28 11:00 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (code.blender.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (code.blender.org)
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | Is the 2d constraint-based sketcher getting some traction?
       | 
       | https://blenderartists.org/t/geometry-sketcher-constraint-so...
        
       | mdrzn wrote:
       | That's A LOT of updates to do! Great roadmap tho, I only recently
       | started learning Blender and I'm amazed at the capabilities it
       | has.
       | 
       | Can't wait for it to get even better.
        
       | IceHegel wrote:
       | Biggest thing I'm waiting for is metal support for the cycles
       | render engine. It's only CPU on Apple Silicon, which is a waste
       | on Pro/Max chips.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | ...or Apple could bite the bullet and just support the open,
         | next-generation standard _everyone_ is using. Metal is silly,
         | if it 's 'superior' to Vulkan, then at least give developers
         | the option. Sadly it's another App Store situation, where
         | you're forced to entrench yourself if you want basic
         | functionality. It feels like MacOS is the new Linux, with how
         | little software actually works on it now and how bad the
         | performance overhead can be in many apps...
        
           | quitit wrote:
           | But Apple don't need a portable cross platform API which they
           | have limited control over and can't accurately forecast
           | functionality. They need something they can tightly control
           | which grows side-by-side with their hardware
           | ambitions/product vision. OpenGL did little to make the Mac
           | easier to target, while supporting a standard that sunk into
           | irrelevance, I'm sure they're not keen to make that mistake
           | twice.
           | 
           | The bonus of this approach is apple needed to directly
           | sponsor+support blender to make it happen.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | OpenGL was inevitably going to be depreciated, you won't
             | find me crying many tears over it's grave. Vulkan is an
             | entirely different beast though, one that Apple _should_
             | support. They have the resources to make it happen, any
             | excuses they make are quite obviously perfunctory and
             | dismissive. Maybe Apple doesn 't need a cross platform
             | graphics API, but I do. Their 'devil may care' attitude
             | towards backwards compatibility doesn't make me confident
             | in owning a Mac.
        
       | andrepd wrote:
       | > The general guideline will be to keep Blender functionally
       | compatible with 2.8x and later. Existing workflows or usability
       | habits shouldn't be broken without good reasons - with general
       | agreement and clearly communicated in advance.
       | 
       | Oh boy. How I _wish_ so much that other software developers would
       | follow this principle... It seems nearly every software I use and
       | rely on has to change its appearance and interface every 6-12
       | months, breaking familiarity for no objective reason, and simply
       | because  "it looks better" to look at (and not necessarily to
       | use!) to the subjective eyes of someone.
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | I wish they didn't. A lot of very popular software is stuck
         | with counter-intuitive interfaces that pose huge entry barrier
         | for anyone approaching them. Only for the people who learned 20
         | year old idiosyncrasies to feel at home.
        
           | runevault wrote:
           | The question I always ask myself as an outsider, is this
           | actually weird and outdated, or is it something that, once
           | you get used to, actually makes people able to work more
           | optimally. Sometimes those power tool design decisions are
           | just bad old decisions, sometimes they really do enable the
           | user. Look at Vim, not for everyone, but if you are willing
           | to learn to invest in its crazy, specific style of user
           | interface people can fly in a way other interfaces don't seem
           | able to quite keep up with.
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | There's always path to making things more approachable no
             | matter how powerful they are.
             | 
             | You could alter vim in a way that people who have years of
             | expeirience of computer use and browser use know at least
             | how to quit goddamn thing without googling it. Or maybe
             | even create short text, save it, open it again, move blocks
             | of text around. For an average person vim has 100% less
             | utility than the notepad.
             | 
             | The power of vim doesn't come from obscure keyboard
             | shortcuts. It comes from editing using parametrized
             | commands (as far as I understand). You could make modern
             | editor with the same power as vim where a person can just
             | sit in front of and start working with immediately and
             | gradually learn that things she's doing manually she could
             | do faster using command mode. And those commands might be
             | the same as in vim because once you go beyond area of
             | shared intuition you can do whatever you want.
             | 
             | The problem of vim is that it started in the era where
             | shared intuition didn't cover basic text editing. And this
             | area grew since then but vim refused to acknowledge this.
        
               | DiggyJohnson wrote:
               | Is that a problem, or just reality? One thing I think of
               | a lot these days is the "domain community and the
               | beginner problem". Specifically, many communities I'm
               | tangentially related to seem to overcompensate for
               | beginner comfort at the risk of missing the entire depth
               | of the domain.
               | 
               | I do not see it as a problem that Vim doesn't supply the
               | features you're describing, though I do understand where
               | you're coming from. I am affirmed in my view when we
               | remember that vim runs in a terminal emulator, and the
               | features you're describing are non-trivial to implement
               | in that environment.
               | 
               | I don't mean to sound pedantic, but I don't see this as a
               | problem at all. As it relates to Vim, or many other tools
               | and domains. If Vim was incentivized to increase the size
               | its user-base, I may agree, but this is not the case.
        
               | runevault wrote:
               | You can't always build something that lets you act like a
               | beginner and gradually transition to the power user
               | version, or at least people haven't always found ways to
               | make that work. The UX challenge of allowing both
               | experiences in the same app, especially with the ability
               | to gradually move from one to the other, is very very
               | complex.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Well blender just did that exact thing going from 2.7 to 2.8
         | recently, although it was at least somewhat justified. But now
         | that they've reworked it it doesn't make sense to do it again
         | any time soon.
        
           | lewispollard wrote:
           | I feel like that move really should have been a major version
           | bump, it was a big move across the board where many aspects
           | of functionality changed or were removed, UI locations and
           | naming completely changed, keyboard shortcuts and UX changes
           | across the board, and so on.
           | 
           | Minor bump 2.7 -> 2.8 = everything breaks, your workflow no
           | longer functions, you have to relearn the API, online
           | resources and documentation no longer relevant for many
           | aspects of the editor
           | 
           | Major bump 2.8/9 -> 3.0 = everything is compatible with 2.8??
           | Just feels like 2.8/2.9 and what's referenced in the blog
           | post should have been version 3 to me, but maybe they had
           | some technical reason regarding the backend and scripting
           | APIs?
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | It was a major version number change. Per the top of the
             | blog post here, they're switching to a new versioning
             | system with 3.x
             | 
             | Prior to 3.x, the major version was the .X part and the 2
             | was somewhat meaningless.
             | 
             | E.g their versioning prior to 3.x is 2.major.minor.patch
             | and will now switch to major.minor.patch
        
             | bsanr2 wrote:
             | The laws of digital physics say that FOSS jank must be
             | conserved, they just moved it to someplace people won't
             | mind. I'd rather have weird update numbers than weird
             | updates.
        
             | Uehreka wrote:
             | I don't have any inside info, but the vibe I got back then
             | was that Blender just considered the x in 2.x to be the
             | major version (with the idea that they weren't going to
             | release a 3.0). Though if that was true, it seems they've
             | changed their minds in the couple years since.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | thepete2 wrote:
         | You're right. I'm so annoyed by firefox changing its interface
         | every once in a while instead of coming up with a _good_ one
         | that they can actually keep stable for years...
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | If Linux kernel devs had just written v5.14 first they
           | wouldn't have needed to bother with any of the previous 90 or
           | so releases. The fools!
        
             | tux3 wrote:
             | The linux kernel does not break its users, save rare
             | exceptions (security fallout).
             | 
             | I've rarely seen a program maintain two UIs forever when
             | they feel like refreshing their looks
             | 
             | Not that I mind UI change, but I think the comparison
             | misses the point: if it's good enough, for some people UI
             | breaks just cost more than they gain in the redesign. So
             | it's not about reaching perfection. It's about finding a UI
             | only just solid enough that it can stop breaking.
             | 
             | I don't necessarily agree personally, but I can understand
             | that point of view.
        
             | orangepurple wrote:
             | Everything you need to know about Linux avoiding breaking
             | user programs
             | 
             | https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Blender has had built-in well-supported full-featured pie
           | menus for a long time, but Firefox still doesn't, and it's
           | nowhere on the roadmap.
        
       | yibers wrote:
       | I can guess from the comments what Blender does, but I am
       | actually not familiar with the tool.
       | 
       | I wandered around the website provided in the link above, but
       | didn't find a simple explanation as to what Blender is about.
       | 
       | Perhaps adding such an explanation to the website can be useful.
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | There's lots of articles posted to HN concerning specific
         | topics, tools, etc... Not everything needs to be explained
         | upfront, you can do your own research.
         | 
         | In this case, a simple click on the Blender icon goes to their
         | homepage, which explains it's 3D modelling software.
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | Does https://www.blender.org not make it super clear?
         | 
         | - Render Engine
         | 
         | - Modeling, Sculpt, UV
         | 
         | - VFX
         | 
         | - Animation & Rigging
         | 
         | - Story Art, Drawing 2D in 3D
         | 
         | How much more clear could they make it?
        
         | Operyl wrote:
         | The front page literally goes through the features of blender,
         | with screenshots and descriptions of features:
         | 
         | "Modeling, Sculpt, UV Blender's comprehensive array of modeling
         | tools make creating, transforming and editing your models a
         | breeze.
         | 
         | * Full N-Gon support * Edge slide, inset, grid and bridge fill,
         | and more * Advanced sculpting tools and brushes * Multi-
         | resolution and Dynamic subdivision * 3D painting with textured
         | brushes and masking * Python scripting for custom tools and
         | add-ons"
         | 
         | not sure what else they could need, it does exactly what you're
         | asking for.
        
         | mastax wrote:
         | Take a look at IanHubert's lazy blender tutorials:
         | https://youtu.be/JjnyapZ_P-g. They're a minute long each, so
         | not useful as tutorials. But they do a good job of showing
         | generally what Blender can do, and how an experienced artist
         | approaches solving a particular problem.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I was confused when I first encountered it too. It does so much
         | that I was left wondering if it is for digital animators, for
         | 3D-printer artists? 2D art?
         | 
         | It turns out all those types use it (but I believe it started
         | out for digital animators primarily).
        
       | rogual wrote:
       | I love Blender, but have been stuck on version 2.7 due to what I
       | can only describe as some sort of icon dyslexia.
       | 
       | For 2.8, all the Blender icons were replaced with monochromatic
       | ones. This is a very popular trend and a lot of programs are
       | replacing their icons in this way, so it's obviously fine for
       | most people, and I realize this is probably a niche accessibility
       | need I have.
       | 
       | But, to use the new icons, I find I have to check each one every
       | time to find the one I want. Instant recognition is no longer
       | possible. For me, this extra cognitive load makes it difficult to
       | use Blender for more than a few minutes at a time.
       | 
       | Blender is a fantastic product and one of the best examples of
       | what open-source can be, but I for one will be appreciating it
       | from afar, and remaining on 2.7 until there is a way to get more
       | usable icons.
        
         | daniel-thompson wrote:
         | I too cannot deal with monochromatic icons. FYI, 2.9 did
         | (re-)introduce color to many of the UI icons, which made it
         | much easier to use for me than 2.8.
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | It makes perfect sense, we are (most humans) visual creatures
         | and color adds an extra dimension of information. Your issue
         | sounds quite legit.
        
         | matthew_kuiash wrote:
         | Wow! I thought it was just me. I find it _incredibly_ difficult
         | to read icons. Even small design changes throw me - the most
         | annoying was the change in speaker icon across versions of
         | Windows. The bigger the icon the less of a problem it is but
         | those fiddly toolbar icons throw me all the time. I have
         | mentioned this to a few folk but honestly thought I was on my
         | own.
        
         | ckdarby wrote:
         | You could look at using a streamdeck to avoid using the icons
         | altogether.
        
         | jtxt wrote:
         | Perhaps this will help you. https://blenderartists.org/t/would-
         | you-like-the-colorful-2-7...
        
         | uxcolumbo wrote:
         | So there is no way to mod the tool bars so you can show the old
         | icons?
        
           | valine wrote:
           | I mean you could always swap out the assets and rebuild. The
           | icons are compiled into the binary so there's no easy way to
           | swap them out without recompiling blender.
        
         | alxlaz wrote:
         | > This is a very popular trend and a lot of programs are
         | replacing their icons in this way, so it's obviously fine for
         | most people, and I realize this is probably a niche
         | accessibility need I have.
         | 
         | It's not a niche accessibility need, it's a universal
         | accessibility need that's been commonly understood for decades.
         | Insufficient differentiation is one of the factors that
         | originally drove the increase of colour count (and later, as
         | display hardware allowed it, resolution) in icons 30-ish years
         | ago.
         | 
         | This trend is not driven by universal preference for
         | monochromatic icons but by the cargo cult that UX has become.
        
           | polk wrote:
           | This is only true if we pretend that UI design is largely
           | about button-level optimization. Clearly it needs to work on
           | the macro level as well, and it's not farfetched to assume
           | that optimizing every button, icon and text label for their
           | individual local maxima will result in an application that's
           | overall too cluttered for anyone but the most experienced
           | users.
        
             | alxlaz wrote:
             | This is not a binary thing. There is such a thing as an
             | interface that is clean and uncluttered, while still using
             | icons that are at least distinguishable from each other.
             | Otherwise you get none of the benefits of an uncluttered
             | interface -- e.g. you have to hover by each button and read
             | the tooltip to find the right one, which is precisely the
             | kind of thing a clean interface is meant to avoid in the
             | first place.
             | 
             | Also, Blender is not a grocery list app. While disregarding
             | novice users does result in an application that's
             | impossible to learn and that's obviously bad, it's equally
             | unproductive to optimize an interface for people who see it
             | for the first time. Blender is the kind of application that
             | you spend tens, if not hundreds of hours learning before
             | using it productively (let alone professionally). That's
             | the target audience you're designing for, not people who
             | download it and uninstall it if they get bored in the first
             | thirty seconds.
        
               | polk wrote:
               | Sure, my comment is in response to the claim that
               | monochrome icons are user-hostile and pushed by a cargo-
               | culting UX profession.
               | 
               | Plenty of professional tools (Photoshop, Final Cut,
               | Figma) have monochrome icons without it being a usability
               | issue. These are all content creation tools, including
               | Blender. The UI and content should not be fighting for
               | attention. It's clear which of those two should primarily
               | be on display.
               | 
               | I think it's entirely possible that Blender just has poor
               | icons - but it seems demonstrably false that monochrome
               | icons are inherently inaccessible.
               | 
               | My best guess is that Blenders real issue is a lack of
               | structure and clear grouping. Providing the icons are in
               | a logical place, it's easy enough to find the correct
               | one, without them needing to be visually distinct on
               | literally every dimension. But if there's no logic to the
               | placement and the icon you're looking for could be one of
               | thirty, then I agree that's an usability issue - just not
               | that the icons are at fault.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bschwindHN wrote:
         | > all the Blender icons were replaced with monochromatic ones
         | 
         | GIMP did this too and it absolutely blows. Thankfully you can
         | revert back to the "legacy" icons.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | Is it a simple checkbox in the preferences dialogue or do I
           | need to edit a config file for that?
        
             | aquova wrote:
             | It's in the preferences UI:
             | Edit->Preferences->Interface->Icon Theme. There's 6 or so
             | options in there.
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | There were some significant reorganizations from 2.7 -> 2.8,
         | 2.8 -> 2.9, and again from 2.9 -> 3.0. It's upsetting to see
         | this much churn over this short of a time for Blender.
         | 
         | Blender has always been very keyboard driven, but I don't use
         | it often enough to have most of the shortcuts memorized. Even
         | those seem to have changed, though. I'm sure there is a setting
         | in the preferences to restore the old shortcuts, but it doesn't
         | really feel like an appropriate thing to do with such a complex
         | piece of software.
         | 
         | I know Blender has a "reputation" for being difficult to use.
         | It used to be earned, over a decade ago, and it was indeed an
         | impediment to getting new users. I felt like--as even just a
         | casual user--Blender had hit a good sweet spot of organized,
         | predictable, and powerful. It's just the very nature of 3D
         | modelling to be complex, and it feels like most complaints
         | about its interface these days are just from completely new
         | people who don't understand this.
         | 
         | That seems to be one of the dangers of Free Software. Having no
         | monetary barrier to entry, you get a LOT more first-time users.
         | Without the sunk cost of having spent several thousand dollars
         | on 3DS Max or similar, they don't have an emotional incentive
         | to stick through the learning curve yet.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | The add on market is really growing, and something like
           | Fluent Power Tools add an amazing array of hard surfaces
           | modeling, and easy to use.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | Oh yeah. To be clear, I still love Blender. It's just that
             | some of these changes (like different icons, moving
             | property fields to different places, changing the default
             | keyboard shortcuts), seem like they're coming from the
             | wrong place. It can get hard to search for information
             | about doing specific things in Blender and making sure the
             | video you end up finding (cuz it's always a video, _sigh_ )
             | matches the version of Blender you're using.
             | 
             | I've spent so much time watching videos and being confused
             | because the fields they show are not in the same place in
             | the version I'm using. It's one of the reasons I choose to
             | stick to the default preferences as much as possible: I
             | don't use Blender often enough to know exactly what I'm
             | doing all the time, so I want my system to match what other
             | people are presenting.
        
               | prox wrote:
               | I feel you, that does happen. My search usually adds the
               | version number, to weed out that post from 2006 from
               | Blender 2.25 :)
        
       | dannytatom wrote:
       | i hope they eventually add more support for 2D in the style of
       | toonboom or after effects. being able to draw with vectors,
       | create puppets, and then animate them. 2d animation is sorely
       | lacking when it comes to open source software.
        
       | Olumde wrote:
       | _sigh_ ... Still no C++ API :-(
        
       | ralusek wrote:
       | If there was a single feature I could see added to Blender, it
       | would be to share more functionality between objects and
       | collections. Blender has an organizational concept called
       | objects, which are containers with position, scale, rotation, and
       | they contain within them the mesh data. These can be warped,
       | arrayed, cast, decimated, etc, through the use of non destructive
       | modifiers.
       | 
       | Now, these objects can be combined into a higher level
       | organizational container called a collection. These, too, have a
       | position, scale, rotation, etc, and behave much the same way as
       | objects. They can even be combined into parent collections.
       | 
       | Now, what I would love would be to have them gain much of the
       | functionality of objects that they don't currently have, most
       | importantly modifiers.
       | 
       | Say I was building a well. I make a single brick, an object. I
       | can array this brick object to create a wall, and I can add a
       | corner to the wall, and add it all to a collection. Now I have
       | this wall "object," and maybe I want to array it 8x around a
       | center point in order to create an octagonal well. I can't,
       | because I can't place modifiers on collections. For all intents
       | and purposes, it is just another object, and would love to see
       | any push towards allowing it to behave as such.
        
         | hrnnnnnn wrote:
         | Check out Geometry Nodes.
        
           | ralusek wrote:
           | I have, they're super useful. They basically illustrate that
           | what I'm talking about is entirely feasible. In the same way
           | that you can non destructively combine object mesh data into
           | higher order objects, this functionality should be available
           | in the object hierarchy graph.
        
         | pdosev wrote:
         | Have you tried geometry nodes? It lets you use meshes from any
         | object, allowing you to build up modifiers non linearly. I
         | would say it covers 90% of the feature you're proposing.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | You basically want Cinema 4D mograph. Unfortunately, Blender
         | does not do that at all, unless you use Animation nodes addon,
         | which works, but it's an addon.
        
           | hrnnnnnn wrote:
           | There's a major update coming to the geometry nodes feature
           | in 3.0. It does a lot of the same stuff as animation nodes
           | and even has the same lead developer.
        
         | gmueckl wrote:
         | Collections and objects have fundamentally different purposes.
         | An object's job is to anchor a bit of geometry information
         | (e.g. a mesh) in the scene. Collections serve as hierarchical
         | grouping and instancing. Instancing is specifically intended to
         | not produce deep copies of objects. This is essential for
         | creating some types of really complex scenes. Any modifier -
         | destructive or otherwise - requires one or more deep copies to
         | act on. Providing modifiers on collections isn't good UX
         | because it blurs the line between what is and isn't an
         | instance.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ralusek wrote:
           | Yes, except that you CAN instance collections. You can do
           | linked imports of collections and you can do linked
           | duplicates of collections. And I understand the difference
           | conceptually, but what I'm saying is that the distinction
           | always ends up being arbitrary to me from and actual usage
           | point of view. If I've made a wall or a tower out of mesh
           | data directly, or a collection of objects, it makes no
           | difference to me in regards to my intentions. I have a wall
           | that I would like to instance around my scenes, and I have
           | all the same motivations for wanting to use non-destructive
           | workflow as I would were it an object. If I were to have to
           | combine my collection into an object, it defeats the purpose.
           | 
           | Say I was building a scene like King's Landing. For each
           | building, I'd like to have a file representing that building,
           | that I can instance around a scene representing, say, a city
           | block. I'll do a linked import of the building, so any
           | changes I do to the building will take effect around the
           | scene, and I'd like to make use of arrays and other modifiers
           | for ad hoc instance changes. Again, my motivations for
           | wanting a non destructive workflow are completely the same,
           | regardless of whether that building is an object or a
           | collection.
           | 
           | Now, as of now, my only option is for it to be an object.
           | However, what if I want to use a collection of other objects
           | in order to build the building? I want a cellar door that I'd
           | like to have instanced. I'd like a ladder outside, and a few
           | barrels on the second story. I want these instanced for all
           | the same reasons. My preference, of course, would be for the
           | building to be a collection of all these things, but if I
           | want to then treat my building as one of these such objects
           | at the next higher level of detail, I can't.
           | 
           | So you're dismissive of my intentions by insisting that the
           | difference is meaningful, whereas I simply see it as a
           | failure of abstraction. Objects and collections are
           | ultimately both worldspace coordinates holding mesh data, the
           | only difference is if they're nested at all. And like I said,
           | collections CAN be nested. That relationship is already
           | established. Collections CAN be instanced, that use case is
           | already established. It's really just the modifiers that are
           | missing. And from a programming perspective, the logic of
           | "get the mesh data from the object I've been assigned to in
           | order to apply this transformation" is the only thing that
           | needs to be tweaked. Rather than going one level deep, it
           | will say "and if this is mesh data, stop, else iterate."
        
             | hjaarnio wrote:
             | You're correct in saying there's no real difference between
             | objects and collections, but there is a meaningful
             | distinction between mesh data and objects, in the object
             | just being a container for the mesh. The modifiers,
             | including array, actually work on the underlying mesh data,
             | not the at the object level, and produce a mesh object as
             | an output. As such, the array modifier does not utilize
             | instancing but actually copies the mesh data multiple times
             | in memory (both RAM and GPU memory), which is definitely
             | not what you want with large, complicated scenes.
             | 
             | So it's not actually about the modifiers being able to be
             | used for what you want in one scenario and not being usable
             | in in a slightly different scenario; the array modifier is
             | not really the tool for the job here at all.
             | 
             | The tool to be used for both of the use cases here is
             | instancing, not the modifiers. Setting up your scene with
             | multiple levels of collections and using proper instancing
             | (which the array modifier is not) certainly is possible,
             | there's just a couple of pieces of the puzzle that you seem
             | to be missing (or unobvious hoops you have to know about,
             | depending how you look at the UX).
             | 
             | Instead of arguing about philosophy and good UX design, I
             | hope you don't mind me elaborating in a more step by step
             | way on how to actually set a scene such as your example up.
             | 
             | You can spawn a collection instance at the location an
             | "empty" type object, by selecting "collection" as the
             | instancing type at the instancing section of object
             | properties. You can have many of these empties and position
             | them manually if you were so inclined.
             | 
             | The other thing is that you can use a mesh to spawn
             | instances of an object at each face of the mesh. So you can
             | create a mesh object, and set up instancing to spawn
             | aforementioned "empty" object, that in turn spawns the
             | whole collection, at each face of the mesh. (You do this by
             | parenting the empty to the mesh, and setting instancing
             | type to "Face" in the instancing panel).
             | 
             | This mesh would typically be rather simple, for example
             | just a couple of disjointed faces scattered where you want
             | your collections to spawn. Or just a single face, and mesh
             | modifiers applied to it, such as array. So instead of
             | arraying the collection, we array a mesh consisting of a
             | single face, and each face of the arrayed mesh spawns an
             | empty that spawns the collection, but the end result is the
             | same. (No idea why each face can't be set to spawn the
             | collection directly and we need an intermediate "empty").
             | 
             | You can also set instances to appear from particle systems
             | etc, for example if you want your houses to just be
             | randomly scattered on a surface of an object (like mesh in
             | shape of the city or so)
        
             | gmueckl wrote:
             | I get what you're saying and it's possible to implement all
             | that, but the current workflow is what it is for a reason.
             | Applying modifiers to collections would result in too many
             | UX surprises and pretty bad footguns.
             | 
             | What you want would be less of an issue in a tool that
             | allowed for a more procedural approach where the assembly
             | of complex objects is part of a modifiable construction
             | history that is separate from the final scene graph. In
             | such a context, merging objects is technically destructive,
             | but repeatable. I've written such a modeler once.
        
       | atoav wrote:
       | I especially like that they plan to decouple Time from Frames.
       | That could lead to extremely cool ways to deal with time in the
       | future (e g. automating speed changes via keyframes to slow down
       | or speed up time globally.
        
       | doctoboggan wrote:
       | Blender is such an amazing tool. I have a side business where I
       | create 3d printed jewelry with my customer's fingerprints on it
       | in gold and silver (https://lulimjewelry.com) and I use Blender
       | on the backend for all of the jewelry creation.
       | 
       | I run blender headless in a docker container on google cloud run.
       | When needed I invoke it with an image and have a blender script
       | "engrave" that image on the jewelry and output an STL file.
       | 
       | It is incredibly flexible to script in python, although its not
       | very "pythonic". The UI is quite stateful (edit mode, object
       | mode, which items are selected, etc) and you have to keep track
       | of that state in your program. But once you get around those
       | issues you can do quite a lot, and its all a free program!
        
         | fallat wrote:
         | Using lost-PLA casting?
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | The rings are printed in wax and then a plaster mould is made
           | using the wax. The gold or silver is cast using the plaster
           | mould.
           | 
           | I don't do any of it myself, I have a casting partner who can
           | do it for me. You can also find online services like
           | shapeways to do it as well but they charge a lot mire than
           | the real casting houses. Some casting houses I've worked with
           | were the back ends to shapeways themselves.
        
             | myrealusername wrote:
             | Could you provide the names of some of the casting houses?
             | I've only used Shapeways for some personal projects, but
             | would love to have some more options. Nice shop, BTW.
        
         | onion2k wrote:
         | _I have a side business where I create 3d printed jewelry with
         | my customer 's fingerprints on it in gold and silver_
         | 
         | There's a plotline for an episode of CSI crying out to be
         | written here..
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | CSI: VRChat
        
         | danuker wrote:
         | > my customer's fingerprints
         | 
         | And you get to build a database for any state agencies that
         | might be interested in buying (or taking)!
        
           | loudmax wrote:
           | > build a database for any state agencies
           | 
           | As opposed to building a database for private agencies?
        
           | vletal wrote:
           | They mean pub key / certificate fingerprints. Gosh... :)
        
             | danuker wrote:
             | Huh? Is building a database of actual finger fingerprints
             | not worthwhile?
        
               | Cthulhu_ wrote:
               | Not really, unless you're trying to build up a private
               | fingerprint collection which can't be used for criminal
               | cases anyway.
        
             | doctoboggan wrote:
             | I'll happily engrave your public key on a ring!
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | When I started this I spent some time googling to see what
           | sort of harm came come from your fingerprints being leaked
           | and I couldn't find anything concrete. It's not trivial to
           | take a photo of a fingerprint and turn it into something
           | capable of fooling a smartphone fingerprint reader. Someone
           | with the ability to do that probably also have the ability to
           | lift your print from the thousands of things you touch in
           | your daily life.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | As opposed to the database the state agencies already have
           | because they take your fingerprints when you get ID?
        
         | tdrdt wrote:
         | Totally agree. Some time ago I also ran Blender headless with a
         | script to render 'product shots' of a product that is available
         | in over hundred different combinations. What is also very nice
         | is that you can turn on API hints when you navigate over an
         | element in the GUI. So you can quickly learn how to access or
         | manipulate data.
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | Yeah you can also have it print the python command called for
           | every action you take in the GUI
        
             | g19fanatic wrote:
             | Could you point me to some documentation for this? This has
             | been the only hindrance for me to automate things without
             | digging into the documentation myself
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | You can use the `--debug-wm` flag for that. CTRL+C when
               | hovering a button also copies it's API action. https://do
               | cs.blender.org/api/current/info_tips_and_tricks.ht...
        
         | darkstarsys wrote:
         | That's a really cool application of Blender! I'm also using
         | Blender headless in docker containers on Google Cloud, though
         | not using Cloud Run. I'm doing it for self-service molecular
         | visualizations -- "create your own molecule video". It's at
         | https://bioviz-studio.com. But I run up to 50 dual-T4 instances
         | for speed (Cycles X helps a lot!). And I agree the python API
         | is a bit weird, and hard to use, but once you get the hang of
         | it you can create really complex and interesting scenes just
         | using python.
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | Blender is amazing for the 3D rendering it can do, and for the
         | fact that it is free... But it is intimidating to people who
         | don't learn it inside and out from a production standpoint when
         | they are doing a lot more than just importing simple objects.
         | 
         | But I kind of wish they had a "Blender Light", without all the
         | features and config options, and with a less complex UI... I've
         | been using Panzoid to do certain things, but Panzoid can't do
         | rigging on imported object files...
         | 
         | I usually want to make animated videos in support of the music
         | I release on my label, but right now doing so is either
         | expensive or time consuming. I also don't want to put in film-
         | studio effort or money into each music video release, because
         | that is not a good business model, and my time is limited...
         | The costs of being a creator are rising fast, only solid
         | workflows will ensure survival.
        
           | HelloNurse wrote:
           | The added value of complex software like Blender is that it
           | makes _every_ task possible, reducing the risk of having to
           | start over a project with better tools because easy to learn
           | software with a constrained workflow and limited features was
           | selected at first. 3D modeling and rendering is particularly
           | suitable for this style of tool because there are many, many
           | editing operations that can be applied to 3D models and many
           | uses they can be put to.
           | 
           | Simplified software is suitable for simple, throwaway needs
           | where the risk of choosing wrong and the cost of changing
           | tools are low: yesterday I had to split a PDF file for the
           | first and presumably last time in my life and I just printed
           | it to a file by page ranges, without bothering to select,
           | install and learn to use a PDF editor like Acrobat.
           | 
           | Mastering general, not "light" software is the only practical
           | foundation for relatively professional "solid workflows" (as
           | opposed to learning the basics of 3D modeling or something
           | else with minimum accidental complexity); there might be a
           | place for very advanced and/or very efficient but very
           | specialized tools (e.g. MagicaVoxel, procedural generators of
           | 3D models, Substance Painter) but only as an addition for
           | equally specialized situations, not as an easy route.
        
           | jedimastert wrote:
           | > But I kind of wish they had a "Blender Light", without all
           | the features and config options, and with a less complex UI
           | 
           | I get what you're talking about, sort of an "iMovie" to
           | Blender's "Final Cut Pro". I think 2.80 actually did a ton of
           | work in that regard, if you've seen it since then. It could
           | definitely be simpler though, and with the UI programming the
           | way it is I suspect it wouldn't take all that much internal
           | change.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, I think a lot of the reason it's as
           | intimidating as it is is because the main aim for buy in for
           | now is studios who favor the power user maximal interfaces of
           | Cinema 4D and Maya and the like
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > But I kind of wish they had a "Blender Light"
           | 
           | Since Blender is open source, it would be possible for some
           | other group to fork Blender and remove parts of the UI for
           | users like you.
           | 
           | I really wish the core team wouldn't focus their effort on
           | this. Blender is a professional tool for professional users.
           | Having to balance between "dumbing down" the UI for first
           | time users and providing a user interface for power users
           | makes it hard to please either one of them, so I'm happy
           | Blender currently focuses on the pro users.
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | You might be interested in the "Blender 101 (Application
           | templates)" item in this roadmap:
           | 
           |  _> Being able to configure Blender for personal workflows is
           | a key Blender target, part of the 2.8 project._
           | 
           |  _> To bring configuring even one step further, .blend files
           | can be used to replace the standard startup file - creating
           | 'custom versions' of Blender this way. These templates will
           | allow to completely configure UI layouts, define custom
           | keymaps and enable add-ons to run at startup. A smart Python
           | scripter can design complete new applications this way, using
           | vanilla Blender releases. As prototypes the team will release
           | a couple of simple templates: a video-player review tool and
           | the 100% dumbed down 'Monkey Blender'._
           | 
           |  _> A template used this way will be called "Blender
           | Application Template" or just "Blender App". Planning is to
           | have this working as beta for Blender 3.1, after extensive
           | testing and reviews by contributors and module teams._
           | 
           | I think the bigger issue you're going to run into with "make
           | Blender but simple" is that the subset of features that _you_
           | want in a simplified blender is a different subset from what
           | other people want. You want to do rigging on imported object
           | files, but for somebody else rigging is a feature that would
           | get cut out completely. They 're just trying to model a
           | doughnut and a coffee mug and do a still render of it, or at
           | most animate the camera moving around the scene.
        
         | peytoncasper wrote:
         | I just wanted to say that your process sounds incredibly
         | awesome. I was curious, what type of instance do you have
         | running behind your Cloud Run job?
         | 
         | I know rendering can be quite heavy on a CPU, but it sounds
         | like you're running a series of commands to generate a model
         | instead
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | Honestly I am running it on the lowest level instance, (1
           | CPU, 512 memory).
           | 
           | And I dont actually do any rendering on this instance, just
           | the STL generation. I use Threejs to display/render the STL
           | once its done.
        
             | chrisweekly wrote:
             | Cool setup; have you posted more about it?
        
         | hwers wrote:
         | I love how hacky this solution is (yet inspiring that it drives
         | a business).
        
         | sydthrowaway wrote:
         | I have a question about your business. Do you 3d print metal
         | yourself?
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | No, I partner with a casting house.
           | 
           | And the metal is actually not 3D printed. How it works is the
           | design is printed in wax first, this wax is then used to make
           | a plaster mould into which the molten metal is cast.
        
             | sydthrowaway wrote:
             | can ender 3 print wax?
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | No, you'll want an SLA printer rather than FDM. Something
               | like an Elegoo Mars.
               | 
               | Though there's a bit of an issue going on in that space
               | right now where the company that makes the controller
               | boards for the affordable consumer models has decided to
               | DRM lock their file format and require all of these
               | printers to use their proprietary slicer (Chitubox),
               | locking out the generally better liked open source
               | alternative (Lychee).
               | 
               | If that's an issue for you, you might be able to find an
               | older model that hasn't been updated to recent firmware,
               | but personally I'm waiting on any resin printers until we
               | see how this shakes out. There was some noise about Chitu
               | hearing the community and creating an SDK, but Lychee
               | didn't sound very excited about it.
               | 
               | EDIT - actually it looks like someone has created a lost
               | wax casting filament for FDM printers. Look for
               | "MoldLay". But in terms of printing detail, for small
               | jewelry type projects resin printers are still going to
               | be the better choice.
               | 
               | https://filament2print.com/gb/lay/645-moldlay.html
        
       | supernes wrote:
       | Great to see they're working on Metal support for the viewport
       | (and Vulkan, of course). Apple took their sweet time coming
       | onboard as a sponsor, but now that they have I hope it will give
       | the developers all the support they need to work out the issues.
        
         | thechao wrote:
         | Fingers are very crossed for a touch-capable Blender.
        
           | wkirby wrote:
           | Not quite what you're after, but Blender in sidecar works
           | really, really well for pen-based workflows. I can sculpt and
           | texture paint with the Apple Pencil and it all just... works.
        
             | happyhardcore wrote:
             | I was interested in this workflow, would be a big
             | motivation to get an iPad pro when the time comes to get a
             | compatible MacBook too. Are there any limitations you've
             | found especially with modifier keys compared to a dedicated
             | wacom tablet?
        
       | Tomte wrote:
       | I do understand that this a roadmap for the 3.x series and not
       | for the very first 3.0 release, but oh boy, is that a lot!
       | 
       | Improvements across the board. Is there even a subsystem that
       | doesn't have big plans? Apart from physics, and that seems to be
       | subsumed into Everything Nodes.
        
         | tdrdt wrote:
         | Well some things are already done. For example Cycles X will be
         | released at the end of this year.
        
           | hrnnnnnn wrote:
           | The 3.0 beta came out last night. The speed increase is
           | staggering, I can easily use cycles in real-time in the
           | viewport now!
        
             | breakingcups wrote:
             | Oh wow that sounds amazing. I didn't know what to expect
             | but even if the increase is only 25% of what you describe
             | it'd still be amazing.
        
       | xvilka wrote:
       | I wish they would extract their GUI layer as some framework. It's
       | so good that would be perfect for many programs.
        
         | mrspeaker wrote:
         | That sounds like a great idea, but I'm not sure how "framework-
         | able" a great UI it is.
         | 
         | I was wondering how you might apply a Blender GUI layer to GIMP
         | (I tolerate GIMP, but I love Blender). I imagine the issues run
         | deeper than just the surface level UI? It would be a great
         | experiment though!
        
         | A-Train wrote:
         | Agree. Even yesterday I was praising Blender's node editor and
         | I'm encouraging the developers to mimic its functionalities in
         | a product we are building.
        
       | schleck8 wrote:
       | > Eevee [...] screen space global illumination
       | 
       | Awesome!
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | My GPU is crying tears of blood!
        
       | EmilyHATFIELD wrote:
       | The Blender x Internet project is called Meta! quite unfortunate
       | timing
        
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