[HN Gopher] Tim Sweeney: Tax bill would likely end founder contr...
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       Tim Sweeney: Tax bill would likely end founder control of
       independent companies
        
       Author : hncurious
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2021-10-27 22:21 UTC (39 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | kinghajj wrote:
       | It looks like Epic Games is a private company, so from what I
       | understand in the proposal, this wouldn't affect him, since his
       | shares are not publicly tradable. The proposal might affect him
       | when/if he were to sell any shares, though, since it has a
       | provision to accrue tax liability on illiquid assets like
       | art/etc, to be owed at time of sale.
        
         | DLTADragonHawk wrote:
         | From what seems to be the intention of the tax plan it would be
         | regardless of if the asset was available in a stock exchange so
         | if the value of Tim's shares put him above the threshold he
         | would still have to pay the tax. His wealth through epic would
         | likely be less then if it were a publicly traded company
         | though. The effect of paying tax on shares was always true as
         | it becomes a realized capital gain and is already covered under
         | the current tax system.
        
           | dsizzle wrote:
           | The stories I see, like
           | https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/25/senate-democrats-push-for-
           | bi..., says the tax on unrealized gains only applies to
           | "tradeable assets." It doesn't seem like that would cover
           | private companies. From what that article says, it would
           | invoke an increased tax due to the deferral of taxes though.
        
         | d23 wrote:
         | It still seems problematic. Even if my company goes public, if
         | I haven't actually sold the shares and made any money, why
         | should this be taxed? If there are loopholes that let the
         | founder avoid those taxes at sale time, fix those, but
         | otherwise why should we effectively take away ownership of a
         | company just because someone has built it up successfully.
        
           | dsizzle wrote:
           | One loophole is the step-up basis that applies when the owner
           | dies. Not sure why that wasn't targeted instead (one reason
           | might be this plan produces revenue more quickly).
        
       | lugged wrote:
       | Watch progressives double down and spin this tweet as alt right.
        
       | maerF0x0 wrote:
       | I'm actually in favor of this.
       | 
       | I've long held that there should be public liquidity in all
       | companies over a certain valuation and the company should not be
       | allowed to bar you from selling the stock (though it could retain
       | right to beat any pending offers)
       | 
       | It's asinine that companies are allowed to treat equity pay as
       | pay, and IRS can tax it as realized (AMT), but the worker does
       | not in fact have any instrument with which to pay the bill.
       | 
       | Edit: Also this is a really smart tweet IMO
       | Give yourself a salary that pays for your wealth tax obligations.
       | You don't have to sell anything.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/macrofacet/status/1453487461989076997
       | 
       | The valuation would grow slower due to burn rate, but the
       | ownership % would not change.
        
       | brnt wrote:
       | An altogether _very_ reasonable price for what we're getting in
       | return.
        
       | new_realist wrote:
       | The current tax situation is like property taxes in California
       | before Prop 19: nobody sells, so ownership and control never
       | changes. This facilitates wealth transfer from generation to
       | generation (in the equity case, though the use of trusts) and
       | perpetuates wealth inequality.
        
       | AdamN wrote:
       | There's some truth to it ... but why is that a bad thing exactly?
        
         | wod3m wrote:
         | if you start a company you should be able to continue to own
         | that company until you decide you're ready to sell it
        
           | RNCTX wrote:
           | There are no mom and pop store billionaires.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Well, one workaround would be to treat securitization of shares
       | (eg for a loan) as a taxable event. This is a common (and
       | currently legal) tax avoidance strategy.
       | 
       | Another consideration is that maybe having sole control of a
       | massive pot of cash or financial instruments by an individual is
       | just a Bad Thing. Consider how Zuckerberg structured FB so that
       | while he it's a public company, the bulk of the stock is non-
       | voting so he has _de facto_ sole control of the firm. No matter
       | how destructive of shareholder value or public goods his
       | executive decisions, it 's virtually impossible for anyone else
       | to overturn them barring some novel legal line of attack.
       | 
       | I have no particular feelings about Tim Sweeney/Epic, but would
       | the economy or the gaming world be worse off if he no longer had
       | founder control? If he's great at his job I presume shareholders
       | would want to keep him on as CEO and would compensate him
       | handsomely in cash money.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-27 23:01 UTC)