[HN Gopher] The Rolling Stones' studio receipt for recording 'Wi...
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       The Rolling Stones' studio receipt for recording 'Wild Horses' and
       'Brown Sugar'
        
       Author : edward
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2021-10-26 10:40 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dangerousminds.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dangerousminds.net)
        
       | rmason wrote:
       | The Aretha Franklin legend began in Muscle Shoals, it's where she
       | got her first hit. But the recording session ended very badly
       | while recording the second song.
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/aug/19/aretha-frankli...
        
         | atrn wrote:
         | Same area, many of the same people, but at a different studio,
         | FAME. MSS was a spin off due to various "fights". I did some
         | recording, with Spooner and David Hood, at both places, a few
         | years back. I really liked FAME, the room is fantastic but MSS
         | has a great vibe.
        
       | khazhoux wrote:
       | Street View of the studio in Alabama. Impressive!
       | 
       | https://goo.gl/maps/E7tzMPvnPRm7up1z5
        
         | dakial1 wrote:
         | That can't be it. Looks terrible
        
           | altacc wrote:
           | Music studios are often quite small and unimpressive from the
           | outside. Inside they can be quite ratty & smelly. The value
           | of a studio is often the people who work there and the
           | equipment they have on site and that's the attraction for
           | musicians.
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | That's it.
           | 
           | Here's a Cher album named after the street address!
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3614_Jackson_Highway
        
       | belter wrote:
       | Awesome...Now will have to go next time in Alabama. They do tours
       | of the Studio!
       | 
       | https://muscleshoalssoundstudio.org/
       | 
       | https://muscleshoalssoundstudio.org/pages/gallery
       | 
       | Past artists using the Studio:
       | 
       | - The Rolling Stones
       | 
       | - Aretha Franklin
       | 
       | - George Michael
       | 
       | - Wilson Pickett
       | 
       | - Willie Nelson
       | 
       | - Lynyrd Skynyrd
       | 
       | - Joe Cocker
       | 
       | - Levon Helm
       | 
       | - Paul Simon
       | 
       | - Bob Seger
       | 
       | - Rod Stewart
       | 
       | - Tamiko Jones
       | 
       | - Cat Stevens.
        
         | a9h74j wrote:
         | Also the early Boz Scaggs _Loan Me a Dime_ -- still being
         | played live (at least in Boz Scaggs ' concerts) note perfect.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTFvAvsHC_Y
        
         | olivermarks wrote:
         | I love to visit famous studios, Stax in Memphis is amazing too.
         | 
         | Lots of great London Studios in UK, like Basing Street Studios
         | in Notting Hill (Now SARM)
         | 
         | https://blackcablondon.net/2011/12/04/cabbies-curios-basing-...
         | 
         | So much incredible music was recorded here!
        
         | AlbertCory wrote:
         | The interesting thing about the Muscle Shoals studio band is:
         | everyone assumed from their sound that they had to be all
         | black. In fact, they were all white, AFAIK.
        
           | ratww wrote:
           | The band is in the cover of this Cher album, that's khazhoux
           | posted below (the title of the album is the address of the
           | studio):
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3614_Jackson_Highway
        
       | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
       | There's an interesting documentary about this Alabama studio
       | "Muscle Shoals" available on Netflix & Amazon Prime. Seems an
       | awful lot of good music came out of there. Combination of
       | excellent studio musicians, production and maybe a magical local
       | vibe.
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | > maybe a magical local vibe
         | 
         | Translated to: nothing else to do.
         | 
         | If I remember correctly, part of the reason for sending the
         | Stones here was so that they couldn't misbehave quite as much
         | and would actually finish their music.
        
         | belter wrote:
         | "OneMic Series - Muscle Shoals Sound Studio - Tour"
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/hP4IwPgylzE
        
         | lprubin wrote:
         | If you like that type of documentary, I recommend another
         | called "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" about the mostly
         | anonymous studio musicians who played on a ridiculous number of
         | Motown and Pop tracks from 1959 - 1972.
         | 
         | "The Funk Brothers produced more hits than The Beatles, The
         | Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys and Elvis Presley combined." [0]
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_in_the_Shadows_of_Mot...
        
           | chrisdhoover wrote:
           | There a few interesting documentaries out. The Wrecking Crew
           | about LA studio musicians. There's one on Brian Wilson. 20
           | feet feet from stardom about back up singers. Laurel Canyon
           | is interesting - its about the music scene there
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | I've seen all of these and lots more. I'm just a music
             | movie junkie, I guess. Can't wait for the Peter Jackson
             | movie about The Beatles.
             | 
             | The Laurel Canyon one with Jakob Dylan is outstanding.
        
               | mgkimsal wrote:
               | I wanted the Laurel Canyon one to be more interviews and
               | less "recreate the music". I'm sure there was far more
               | interview footage that would have been more interesting.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | YMMV. I actually liked seeing modern artists do the old
               | songs.
        
           | jbigelow76 wrote:
           | Thank you, I upvoted you, lprubin, and belter, but I'll
           | respond just here to not be repetitive. I come to HN for the
           | tech but I stay for the etcetera :)
        
           | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
           | Thanks - I'll check it out.
        
       | lazyeye wrote:
       | Fun fact: Australians might be interested to know "Brown Sugar"
       | was written in a field near Canberra (outside Braidwood). Mick
       | Jagger wrote it whilst on the film set for Ned Kelly.
        
       | modriano wrote:
       | > ...two of rock music's greatest songs...
       | 
       | I don't often pay close attention to the lyrics in songs, but
       | after hearing the Rolling Stones were pulling "Brown Sugar" from
       | their set list [0] because of it's offensive lyrics, I read
       | through the lyrics [1] and I was shocked to find that the song is
       | about raping a young slave girl. I was shocked; the tone of the
       | song is so incongruous with the horror of the crimes described in
       | the lyrics.
       | 
       | So, let's not call "Brown Sugar" one of rock music's greatest
       | songs. Without the lyrics, it's a great bit of music, but it's
       | completely tarnished by the lyrics.
       | 
       | [0] https://people.com/music/rolling-stones-retire-brown-
       | sugar-l... [1] https://genius.com/The-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-
       | lyrics
        
         | ace2358 wrote:
         | Wow. Reading the lyrics is an intense experience. How could
         | anyone ever have listened to that and not realised? I've never
         | heard the song myself.
        
           | Nitrolo wrote:
           | To be fair it's quite difficult to make out the words when
           | listening to the song. I must have heard it dozens of times
           | and somehow I got the idea that "brown sugar" must have been
           | some American slang I just didn't know for some drug, because
           | I couldn't tell the words apart.
           | 
           | Reading the lyrics now is... wow it's something.
        
           | tamaharbor wrote:
           | Yet somehow, it was OK for 50+ years.
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | The lyrics have often been brought up as bad.
             | 
             | Jagger was 26 years old in Alabama making light of almost
             | every serious issue of the time. Thats really not that
             | absurd or different than what "okurrs" now. A reference to
             | Cardi B's chart topping songs about personally being a
             | scamming sex worker and general misandry.
        
         | matthewmorgan wrote:
         | "Brown Sugar" is one of rock music's greatest songs
        
         | robbrown451 wrote:
         | Technically only the first verse.
         | 
         | And overall, it is about sex with black women, in a general
         | sense. Two of Mick's black girlfriends each claim it is about
         | them. I'd say the first verse is sort of a twisted sex fantasy.
         | (and not just men indulge in rape fantasy/roleplay stuff)
         | 
         | Obviously, Mick can relate to the slave trader in the first
         | verse, in the sense that he had so many women who would let him
         | do as he pleased with them, with zero regard for their
         | enjoyment. I'm not saying he behaved that way, but he certainly
         | could have, every day if he wanted to.
         | 
         | Not really defending it, it's pretty awful to listen to. It
         | certainly has an iconic guitar riff.
        
       | vidanay wrote:
       | According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/, $1,009.75 in
       | 1969 is equivalent to $7,547.26 in 2021. My guess for the cost of
       | recording two studio songs these days would be about an order of
       | magnitude higher than that. (If you tell me it costs ~$40k to
       | record a studio song, I would not be even slightly surprised.)
        
         | kop316 wrote:
         | A band I used to play with recorded/mixed five songs with a
         | fairly reputable producer (he produced Avenged Sevenfold and
         | several other national US acts), and the cost came out to be
         | about $2,000/song (2015). We also had all of our songs fully
         | written out, and everyone knew their part, so the procuder
         | really only tweaked things. However, for the amount of time we
         | got with the producer/studio, it seemed like a bargain to me.
         | 
         | Recording/mixing just varies incredibly widely, and it varies
         | by reputation of the producer, how much time, effort they put
         | into your song, time in studio, things like that. That being
         | said, ~$40k seems REALLY high to me (but I suppose if you are
         | an act like the Rolling Stones, that is comparitively low).
        
           | letitbeirie wrote:
           | $2000/track sounds about right for that.
           | 
           | I played with a regionally popular band around the same time
           | and we were able to record a 5-song EP for $7500; it sounds
           | like we got a similar level of attention from our producer
           | (who had a few "oh yeah I know them" acts on his resume but
           | none as popular as Avenged Sevenfold).
           | 
           | $40k would be extortionate for what we got, but there are
           | producers out there who are worth it. The Beatles got a good
           | deal no matter what they paid George Martin.
        
           | d883kd8 wrote:
           | Sounds like a song costs about the same as a website
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | That's 480usd/hour for studio time.
         | 
         | Asking Google, a studio runs "30-200+" an hour, which doesn't
         | say a lot, but says that todays prices easily undercut what The
         | Rolling Stones chose to pay.
        
         | rectang wrote:
         | Then and now, studio _time_ varies wildly depending on
         | production approach, arrangement, the number of takes required
         | to get a  "keeper", and the opinions of stakeholders who may
         | wish to keep working. So estimates are hard to make.
         | 
         | Many artists basically craft tracks in the studio these days.
         | That really started in earnest with Sgt. Pepper's but it's much
         | more common because of democratizing technological changes.
         | 
         | You can spend unbounded amounts of time in the studio if you
         | have the budget.
        
         | S_A_P wrote:
         | The answer is it depends. A lot of pre-production early
         | recording can be done outside of the studio or at a home studio
         | these days. Certain styles of music have little need for a
         | 'professional' studio anymore. Unless you are an established
         | and or well funded musician that depends on good playing and
         | acoustics for your sound most records can be made on the cheap.
         | 
         | In the Houston area where I live there are few studios that can
         | and do record professional and big names. Most of those have
         | rates around 150-250 bucks per hour. Recording to tape is
         | rarely done anymore but these days 2" tape will run between
         | 100-300 a reel. Depending on tape speed that will capture
         | around 10-15 minutes of multi track music. If the band is tight
         | and arrangements are worked out you can fit 2 songs on that.
         | 
         | Big name producers can range from a percentage of pre-recoup
         | sales, to a flat fee to a mix of both. In the early 2000s I
         | think Dr Dre quoted a friends and family price as a flat fee of
         | 50k per song. I think that would balloon to 150k for those
         | outside his circle.
         | 
         | Also note- this receipt for the Rolling Stones is _only_ for
         | studio time and materials. That _may_ include engineering time
         | and producer fees, but I would hazard a guess that it does not.
         | I would also bet that Jimmy Miller(the producer of Sticky
         | Fingers) had a separate fee so the 1000 bucks was not really
         | the all in cost.
        
           | dsizzle wrote:
           | That was only the initial tracking too, not the mixing, and
           | probably some of the overdubs.
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | I'd say the opposite is true. These days studio quality
         | equipment is affordable so often when you pay for studio time
         | what you're paying for is more the producers talent. So it
         | really depends on the style of music and how prepared you are
         | going into the studio / how much work the produce needs to do.
         | I see can't the cost running into tens of thousands unless your
         | basically using the studio time to compose your track.
        
         | basisword wrote:
         | On the other hand these days you can record a number 1 single
         | at home with a laptop for pretty much no cost. That wasn't a
         | possibility at all back then.
        
           | vidanay wrote:
           | Boston Boston is probably as close as you could get to that
           | "back in the day".
        
             | Turing_Machine wrote:
             | Yep, but that was only really possible because Scholz was
             | an MIT-trained engineer. Without that (or equivalent
             | knowledge from other sources) it would have been tough.
             | 
             | Nowadays you can buy the technology off the shelf.
        
               | anamax wrote:
               | And, it wasn't Scholz' first rodeo.
        
             | jawilson2 wrote:
             | McCartney? He probably had above-average home resources
             | available though
        
               | vidanay wrote:
               | The band Boston and their debut album "Boston" is famous
               | for having been recorded in Tom Scholz' basement. (Paul?)
               | McCartney was not involved as far as I know.
        
               | pstuart wrote:
               | Referring to this:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCartney_(album) -- home
               | recording in 1970.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | Plenty of bands recorded their albums on cheap multitrack
           | recorders in their garage.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Depends on the studio and staff (recording engineers, producer,
         | etc). If either or both are famous -- instead of merely
         | excellent -- you will pay a much higher rate.
         | 
         | But the most important question is time. You can pay less than
         | $1k for a full studio day with great equipment and great staff,
         | but it adds up if you're slow, or your players are learning the
         | song (or even writing it!) in the studio.
         | 
         | And of course, you can do a _lot_ at home with a couple
         | thousand dollars of hardware today.
        
         | axegon_ wrote:
         | I checked several calculators and it seems about right. To be
         | completely honest I would have imagined that the price would
         | have been much higher. Then again the Rolling Stones are at the
         | top of my list so I am likely incredibly biased.
        
       | mosdave wrote:
       | Gimme Shelter (the film) has some good footage from these
       | sessions.
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | Even with inflation, seems pretty cheap in comparison to other
       | stories you hear about groups being given hundreds of thousands
       | of dollars upfront to record and then having these groups bitch
       | about how they blew through their money and didn't get their
       | record done OR they got their record done and it was shit and
       | sold like shit.
       | 
       | Sticky fingers has sold like ~20 million copies (last I checked)
       | and is regarded as one of the best Rolling Stones albums and one
       | of the best '70s albums altogether.
       | 
       | Not bad ROI on two songs.
       | 
       | Also, even though everyone seems to know 'Brown Sugar', 'Wild
       | Horses', and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking', IMHO: 'Sway' and
       | 'Moonlight Mile' are some of the best songs but, honestly, I can
       | always put this record on and listen to the whole thing start to
       | finish. Certainly one of my faves while driving for long periods.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | >Even with inflation, seems pretty cheap in comparison to other
         | stories you hear about groups being given hundreds of thousands
         | of dollars upfront to record and then having these groups bitch
         | about how they blew through their money and didn't get their
         | record done
         | 
         | Those stories are about the total budget to produce an album,
         | this is just the cost of the studio time and tapes. I'd bet the
         | producer alone made more than $1000 for this song, and there
         | would be many other people getting similar amounts.
        
           | alfiedotwtf wrote:
           | My menory is faded on this one, but IIRC there's an interview
           | with 50 Cent where he talks about recording his first song.
           | The producer wanted something like $50k but 50 Cent asked if
           | instead he wanted royalties instead.
           | 
           | The producer was undecided but eventually said royalties, and
           | ended up getting millions
        
         | at-fates-hands wrote:
         | >> seems pretty cheap in comparison to other stories you hear
         | about groups
         | 
         | I remember hearing stories about how Nirvana recorded "Bleach"
         | for $600. The story goes Chris Novoselic went to the founder of
         | Sub Pop records and demanded they be under contract. The
         | founder basically took a stock contract that he copied at the
         | local library for .10 and had them sign it - giving them
         | royalties on Bleach and Nevermind.
         | 
         | Turns out when all the grunge bands were going to the big
         | labels, those Nirvana royalties effectively allowed them to
         | stay in business during their lean times.
         | 
         | But you're right. I heard many, many stories of the hair bands
         | getting signed, then going on a drug and spending binge and
         | then never being able to complete their contractual obligations
         | to the label.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | They say the key to innovation (i.e., creativity) is scarcity.
         | Low budget is obviously a form of scarcity.
         | 
         | It certainly would be interesting to see a sample of albums,
         | the studio bill, the marketing bill, and then the sales /
         | revenue. I'm sure there are exceptions but I bet big bets
         | correlate with big busts :)
        
         | smoe wrote:
         | To me it actually seem more on the higher end from todays
         | perspective. Assuming that the "13 1/2 Studio Time" is in hours
         | not days.
         | 
         | What I have seen usually being quoted by professional studios
         | in Switzerland is around $150-250 per hour for studio+engineer
         | with discounts if you book days.
         | 
         | But the recording sessions are only a small part of the process
         | from writing to publication of music. And what really racks up
         | the cost if one starts adding big names to any part of the
         | production. If you just stick with professionals that charge
         | for their services, not their brand, you can actually get great
         | productions for not too much money.
        
       | atrn wrote:
       | Did some recording there a couple of years back. Not a bad room
       | but the studio itself is mostly a museum these days and our
       | engineer had to do a bit of work to get it functioning well
       | enough for our purposes. In the area there are a number of great
       | studios, e.g. Fame, Nutthouse but MSS is closer to a really,
       | really good fried chicken place!
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-27 23:01 UTC)