[HN Gopher] Neo-Amish Drop Outs (2008)
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       Neo-Amish Drop Outs (2008)
        
       Author : johndcook
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2021-10-25 16:02 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kk.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kk.org)
        
       | bm3719 wrote:
       | Having lived around the Amish, I've taken some inspiration from
       | them in various aspects of life. I feel they have a lot to teach
       | us in regards to living a content life. Being here now, I
       | obviously don't subscribe to their philosophy wholesale, but I do
       | sometimes ask myself what the Amish might do in certain
       | situations.
       | 
       | Just one example: If I can accomplish a task with unpowered hand
       | tools, I'll do so, even if it's less "efficient" than
       | buying/renting an internal combustion engine or electric powered
       | device that would do the same. I've built many things this way
       | and have taken greater satisfaction from not just the end result,
       | but the creation process. Other healthy side effects are
       | increased independence from external industry, skills
       | development, less cost to the environment, and sometimes free
       | exercise.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | Many powered devices are much more dangerous, especially for
         | amateurs. It's hard to receive serious injury from hand saw.
         | One slightly wrong move with circular saw and you're crippled.
         | So it's definitely makes sense to spend more time with hand
         | tools if that's not your profession and you can allow for some
         | inefficiency.
        
           | lmilcin wrote:
           | I disagree. I lost vision to my eye due to chip flying when
           | cutting wood with an axe (carelessly...)
           | 
           | If you are looking strictly at accidents in unit of time,
           | than maybe powered tools are more dangerous.
           | 
           | But what you should do is look at accidents per amount of
           | work done. Like how many accidents it took to process 1000
           | tonnes of wood. I am sure the statistics would be different
           | then.
           | 
           | But I agree with "especially amateurs". Being amateurs around
           | powered tools is like being amateurs around guns. Every
           | person should be trained at least a little before being given
           | access to powered tools.
        
         | garrickvanburen wrote:
         | Yes. I frequently grab unpowered hand tools (mower, rake, snow
         | shovel) by default as I can get the job mostly done and done
         | far more quietly, in the time it takes to power-up the powered
         | version.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | Indeed, we can learn a lot from the Amish. Efficiency isn't
         | always the most important thing in life.
        
           | LadyCailin wrote:
           | Efficiency isn't, no, but time is, and efficiency usually
           | lends itself to giving you more time. If the journey itself
           | gives you fulfillment, then by all means, do it how you like.
           | However, the Amish would choose to sacrifice efficiency even
           | when it's not about the enjoyment of the thing itself, but
           | rather a base necessity, at the cost of their time, which is
           | the most wasteful thing a human being can do with their life.
           | So no, I disagree that there's anything to learn from the
           | Amish. It's an absurd religious belief, even if you can
           | "learn something" from it if you squint hard enough.
        
             | blululu wrote:
             | This is by design. When efficiency is pursued for greed,
             | the gains typically only go into more greed and not into
             | living a more relaxed life. Most modern economies still
             | require 40 hours of work every week no matter how efficient
             | production becomes, and this is par for the course for the
             | past 300 years of industrialization. The Amish do use
             | plenty of tools and the set is decided by each
             | congregation. The core idea is to have enough but
             | disincentivized people from the excess pursuit of material
             | profit.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | I think you misunderstand Amish philosophy. Contrary to
             | popular belief, the Amish did not decide one day in the
             | 18th century that technology had gone "far enough" and that
             | they were going to freeze in time, their way of life at
             | that moment, forever.
             | 
             | Instead, they saw the way changing technology began to
             | accelerate the pace of life in society around them. In
             | response, they adopted a philosophy to preserve what they
             | believed were the most important things in life.
             | 
             | Accordingly, their philosophy is based on one simple rule:
             | they will not adopt any technology they deem a threat to
             | the time they spend with family and with God. Look at any
             | "modern" family, with teenagers staring at their phones
             | instead of talking to each other at the dinner table, and
             | it's easy to see that the Amish may be on to something.
             | It's not the phones that are the problem, really. In the
             | past it was people looking at the newspaper or anything
             | else like that. The two most important things in an Amish
             | person's life is their relationship with God and their
             | relationship with family.
             | 
             | I live in an area (southern Ontario) with lots of old order
             | Mennonites who are related to the Amish. They practice a
             | very similar way of life. They do not shun technology
             | arbitrarily. Almost every time I've been to the hospital,
             | for example, I've seen them there getting care for a family
             | member. They do not reject modern medicine because it does
             | not conflict with their beliefs. They know that doctors can
             | treat their family members and provide a better outcome
             | than what they can provide at home, so they have no problem
             | seeking out medical care.
             | 
             | They also have no problem using the Internet to advertise
             | their businesses. Many of them produce traditional goods
             | such as preserves, maple syrup, dairy products, sausages,
             | blankets, hand made furniture, and even metalwork which is
             | all very high quality and in demand among non-Mennonite
             | people in the area. They are perfectly happy to build
             | websites (or to contract that out) so that people can find
             | their stuff and order it.
             | 
             | If you want to see how appealing the Amish lifestyle is,
             | look no further than the popularity of Stardew Valley. That
             | game perfectly captures the spirit of Amish philosophy:
             | pervasive technology can leave us all slaves, chained to
             | our desks. A simple, agrarian way of life, focused on
             | relationships, is the key to setting us free.
        
               | zemvpferreira wrote:
               | This is a lovely explanation, thank you. I'm ignorant
               | about the Amish save for what I've absorbed from the
               | culture, but now I feel a little closer to understanding
               | them. I wouldn't make the exact same decisions but the
               | appeal is clear (and I admire the resolution).
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | Some other interesting things about the Amish:
               | 
               | Perhaps also contrary to popular belief is that the Amish
               | drink alcohol and love to celebrate with their friends
               | and family. They do not have any specific prohibition
               | against getting drunk.
               | 
               | They also have one convenient technology the rest of us
               | still dream of: self-driving "cars." After a night of
               | merriment they need to get home safely but that's no
               | problem at all because the horse knows the way home! They
               | simply climb in their buggy and let the horse take them
               | back, so they can tuck in bed and rest up for another day
               | of work the next morning!
        
               | garrickvanburen wrote:
               | I've recently heard, that while many Amish communities
               | didn't adopt the telephone, they have adopted the mobile
               | phone - "because it can be turned off."
        
       | 1cvmask wrote:
       | The last paragraph sums it up real well:
       | 
       | I know about the traditional Amish; they don't count because they
       | have never been wired. I'm most interested in Neo-Amish drop
       | outs. (There's a Neo-Amish MeetUp group, which I think is self-
       | disqualifying.)
        
       | magneticnorth wrote:
       | I believe this should link to
       | https://kk.org/thetechnium/neoamish-drop-o/
       | 
       | (2008)
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Fixed now.
         | 
         | Our software has been replacing submitted URLs with canonical
         | URLs when it finds them; but this time the canonical URL was
         | https://kk.org/.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Just as I'd emailed you :-)
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | Email such corrections to hn@ycombinator.com.
         | 
         | (I've done so.)
        
         | snapetom wrote:
         | Ah, thank you. I was wondering what vanishing Asian cultures
         | had to do with the Amish.
        
           | UncleOxidant wrote:
           | And even that link doesn't give a lot of details. I was
           | thinking it had something to do with young (Neo) Amish
           | dropping out and getting into tech.
        
             | snapetom wrote:
             | Hah. Same. Disappointed about the subject, and the use of
             | "Amish" is misleading.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-25 23:02 UTC)