[HN Gopher] WWII ships from Battle of Iwo Jima raised by volcani...
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WWII ships from Battle of Iwo Jima raised by volcanic activity,
seismic shifts
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 123 points
Date : 2021-10-25 09:36 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (taiwanenglishnews.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (taiwanenglishnews.com)
| geenew wrote:
| It's strange and sad how, to me, at least, WW2 artifacts like
| these are moving from the category of items representing the time
| we live in to items representing the distant past, like wrecks of
| wooden frigates. ~80 years is a long time.
| bigbaguette wrote:
| In Tulamben on the East coast of Bali you can find the opposite:
| the submerged wreck of a ship that's never been sunk: the USAT
| Liberty.
|
| She's been torpedoed by a Japanese submarine during WWII but
| stayed afloat. As she was getting towed towards the nearest
| shipyard, she was taking on too much water and she's been beached
| to save her cargo and fittings as she was not deemed repairable.
|
| 21 years later, an eruption of Mount Agung produced tremors that
| made the ship slip off the beach, down to the ocean, where she
| lies now on a sand slope, turning the location into an amazing
| diving spot!
|
| Nowadays, each time the volcano shakes the island a bit, the
| water around turns red for a couple days
| tokai wrote:
| Poseidon getting the help of Hephaestus to claim the oceans
| rightful bounty.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| For a moment I thought you were talking about the USS Liberty
| and got confused. For those who don't know the USS Liberty was
| a deliberate attack on a US vessel by the Israelis in 1967 that
| killed 34 Marines and Sailors that would have been used as a
| false flag to goad America into war with Egypt. The resulting
| coverup by a POTUS who got his position after another POTUS was
| assassinated is one of the most egregious coverups in the last
| century.
|
| The USAT Liberty was just a ww transport vessel.
| CrazyStat wrote:
| There's zero evidence that the Liberty was intended to be a
| false flag. Even most of the people who believe it was a
| deliberate attack (i.e. Israel knew it was an American ship)
| don't believe the false flag theory.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| Not only is there a ton of inductive evidence, but its been
| said by survivors themselves. Of course the less "reaching"
| conclusion is it was to coverup activities they had spied
| on, but many things don't make sense with that proposal. We
| will probably never know for sure due to the degree of
| coverup. To be fair as the remaining survivors have gotten
| more traction they do usually avoid saying that directly,
| but they hint at it heavily.
|
| It was deliberate, all the deductive evidence points to it,
| so I find the framing of "even those who believe it was
| deliberate" to be slightly misleading.
| CrazyStat wrote:
| > Not only is there a ton of inductive evidence,
|
| I'm not sure what "inductive" means here. Does Israel
| have an extensive history of conducting false flag
| attacks by attacking US ships and then promptly admitting
| responsibility and apologizing for it?
|
| > but its been said by survivors themselves.
|
| Survivors who are obviously in no position to have any
| special information about Israel's motives, so
| irrelevant.
|
| > It was deliberate, all the deductive evidence points to
| it, so I find the framing of "even those who believe it
| was deliberate" to be slightly misleading.
|
| Not at all. Israel was at the time a young country with
| still relatively inexperienced armed forces, and had
| several notable friendly fire instances, including
| attacking a British ship during the Suez war. A
| deliberate attack is certainly plausible, but far from
| certain.
|
| You want to talk about misleading? How about your
| incredibly misleading claim that the Liberty was "just a
| ww [sic] transport vessel." Yes, it was a transport 25
| years earlier. It was not a transport at the time of the
| attack. Its past history as a transport is entirely
| irrelevant.
|
| Israel has committed plenty of real crimes. By all means
| talk about them. You only hurt your credibility by
| pushing imaginary ones.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| Israel had already at that time even as a young nation
| esablished they were willing to use false flag
| operations, primarily in the Kind David hotel bombing and
| in the Lavon Affair.
|
| These were intelligence agents spying on activities
| during a war between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria,
| and they were told, no ordered, to keep their mouths shut
| about the incident. Their first hand knowledge cannot be
| so blithely and casually dismissed.
|
| Regardless of your ad hominem attack on the survivors of
| the massacre, not only do the yet still classified and
| unreleased NSA tapes exist that will one day confirm, but
| more recently declassified Israeli cables that support
| the statement that Israel knew it was American and wanted
| to sink it on purpose:
|
| "in a pair of diplomatic cables sent by the Israeli
| ambassador in Washington, Avraham Harman, to Foreign
| Minister Abba Eban in Tel Aviv.
|
| Five days after the Liberty attack, Harman cabled Eban
| that a source the Israelis code-named "Hamlet" was
| reporting that the Americans had "clear proof that from a
| certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the
| ship and continued the attack anyway."
|
| Harman repeated the warning three days later, advising
| Eban, who is now dead, that the White House was "very
| angry," and that "the reason for this is that the
| Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots
| indeed knew that the ship was American."" [1]
|
| Even beyond that, many people in a position to have first
| hand knowledge spoke to that effect, as can be seen in
| the rest of [1].
|
| Furthermore, an even more covered up aspect of the story
| that lends credence to the "false flag" angle is this:
| according to the book _Operation Cyanide: Why the Bombing
| of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III_ [2], "
| at 8:45 a.m. EDT (2:45 p.m. off the coast of the Sinai
| Peninsula) on June 8, 1967 two A-4 bomber aircraft loaded
| with nuclear bombs were dispatched from the aircraft
| carrier USS America, bound for Cairo with orders to drop
| those bombs on that city."
|
| As for your comment about UAT liberty transport vessel,
| the actual relevant tidbit to the original post, it was a
| _different_ vessel altogether... which I didn 't know,
| and hence me even bringing this topic up in the first
| place.
|
| 1. https://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-
| liberty_tuesoct02-story.h...
|
| 2. https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Cyanide-Bombing-
| Liberty-Nea...
|
| bonus two more very informational books on the topic:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079WLV7HT
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07281WLWL
|
| Summary of Events:
| http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm
|
| Al Jazeera documentary"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx72tAWVcoM
| CrazyStat wrote:
| > primarily in the Kind David hotel bombing
|
| Not a good look when your first example is completely
| nonsensical. Israel didn't exist as an entity at the time
| of the King David hotel bombing. It also was not a false
| flag operation. It was carried out by a Jewish group who
| immediately claimed responsibility for it and apologized
| for the deaths of the Jews who had been killed. The fact
| that the perpetrators dressed as non-jews to carry out
| the attack does not make it a false flag attack.
|
| > Lavon Affair
|
| That one was actually a false flag operation carried out
| by Israel, so at least you get 1 of 2.
|
| > These were intelligence agents spying on activities
| during a war between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria,
| and they were told, no ordered, to keep their mouths shut
| about the incident. Their first hand knowledge cannot be
| so blithely and casually dismissed.
|
| Mostly they were sailors, and their first hand knowledge
| was getting shot at. That's it.
|
| > Regardless of your ad hominem attack
|
| Nothing I said can be construed as an ad hominem attack
| on the survivors.
|
| > not only do the yet still classified and unreleased NSA
| tapes exist that will one day confirm, but more recently
| declassified Israeli cables that support the statement
| that Israel knew it was American and wanted to sink it on
| purpose:
|
| Passing over the unsupported claims about what the NSA
| tapes may show, which you obviously don't actually know,
| none of this supports the false flag claim--only the
| deliberate attack claim.
|
| > according to the book Operation Cyanide: Why the
| Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III
| [2], " at 8:45 a.m. EDT (2:45 p.m. off the coast of the
| Sinai Peninsula) on June 8, 1967 two A-4 bomber aircraft
| loaded with nuclear bombs were dispatched from the
| aircraft carrier USS America, bound for Cairo with orders
| to drop those bombs on that city."
|
| This also doesn't support the false flag claim, since it
| only speaks to the US reaction to the incident, not
| Israel's motive.
|
| In summary, you have presented no evidence that supports
| the false flag claim.
|
| > As for your comment about UAT liberty transport vessel,
| the actual relevant tidbit to the original post, it was a
| different vessel altogether... which I didn't know, and
| hence me even bringing this topic up in the first place.
|
| Sorry, I misread that. That's on me.
| kfprt wrote:
| 'But Sir, It's an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!'
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Overall I agree with you, but arminiusreturns was
| claiming that the _USAT_ Liberty, the one at Bali, was a
| WWII transport, _not_ the _USS_ Liberty, the one Israel
| attacked.
| kfprt wrote:
| It's amazing the level of defensive outrage this event
| generates 50 plus years on. If we can't have an open
| discussion about shady events in the past then maybe we
| need to investigate the current interests preventing that
| open discussion.
| [deleted]
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| > The resulting coverup by a POTUS who got his position after
| another POTUS was assassinated is one of the most egregious
| coverups in the last century.
|
| Yeah... um... you sound like a conspiracy-theory nutcase when
| you write like this. How is Kennedy's assassination relevant
| here? What are you darkly hinting at, but not coming out and
| saying?
|
| Writing like this is called "vagueposting", and it's really
| shoddy. Don't make us guess what your point is. Either make a
| clear claim, or don't bother.
| [deleted]
| redis_mlc wrote:
| Until the Battle of the Coral Sea, from 4 to 8 May 1942, the
| Allies were hapless against the Japanese.
|
| It was so bad that an Australian ship had to camouflage as
| vegetation and sneak away.
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| I hadn't realized seismic shifts and volcanic activity could
| cause a land upheaval so spontaneously.
|
| As I was reading HP Lovecraft's _Dagon_ [0] I wondered whether or
| not such a thing were possible - most of the story takes place on
| that type of terrain.
|
| [0] https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/d.aspx
| sintaxi wrote:
| Lake Titicaca in Peru which is 12,500 feet above sea level and
| it sits in a sedimentary basin that was apparently below sea
| level at some time in the past since the lake is made up of
| diluted salt water.
| alleycat5000 wrote:
| Here's a interesting talk on the underlying volcano and uplift.
|
| https://youtu.be/SPmT0aS0pK4
| xwdv wrote:
| Land: They're making more of it.
| missedthecue wrote:
| In fact, the world has _gained_ a net 13,565 square kilometers
| (5,237 square miles) of land since 1985, according to satellite
| data.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-coasts-idUS...
| nathancahill wrote:
| That's the joke in Hawaii. More beach front property by the
| minute.
| polycaster wrote:
| I understand the main point of the article is that the ships were
| lifted due to vulcanic activity. Still, as this creates the image
| of graves being lifted:
|
| ,,To be clear, these ships aren't victims of a battle; instead,
| the U.S. Navy intentionally scuttled them at the location in 1945
| after taking the island in an attempt to create an artificial
| breakwater for a planned harbor. Several of them are reinforced
| concrete barges, ships built to support naval operations and not
| necessarily for any direct combat role."
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/news/42802/volcanic-activity-lifts-...
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(page generated 2021-10-25 23:01 UTC)