[HN Gopher] WWII ships from Battle of Iwo Jima raised by volcani...
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       WWII ships from Battle of Iwo Jima raised by volcanic activity,
       seismic shifts
        
       Author : simonebrunozzi
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2021-10-25 09:36 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (taiwanenglishnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (taiwanenglishnews.com)
        
       | geenew wrote:
       | It's strange and sad how, to me, at least, WW2 artifacts like
       | these are moving from the category of items representing the time
       | we live in to items representing the distant past, like wrecks of
       | wooden frigates. ~80 years is a long time.
        
       | bigbaguette wrote:
       | In Tulamben on the East coast of Bali you can find the opposite:
       | the submerged wreck of a ship that's never been sunk: the USAT
       | Liberty.
       | 
       | She's been torpedoed by a Japanese submarine during WWII but
       | stayed afloat. As she was getting towed towards the nearest
       | shipyard, she was taking on too much water and she's been beached
       | to save her cargo and fittings as she was not deemed repairable.
       | 
       | 21 years later, an eruption of Mount Agung produced tremors that
       | made the ship slip off the beach, down to the ocean, where she
       | lies now on a sand slope, turning the location into an amazing
       | diving spot!
       | 
       | Nowadays, each time the volcano shakes the island a bit, the
       | water around turns red for a couple days
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | Poseidon getting the help of Hephaestus to claim the oceans
         | rightful bounty.
        
         | arminiusreturns wrote:
         | For a moment I thought you were talking about the USS Liberty
         | and got confused. For those who don't know the USS Liberty was
         | a deliberate attack on a US vessel by the Israelis in 1967 that
         | killed 34 Marines and Sailors that would have been used as a
         | false flag to goad America into war with Egypt. The resulting
         | coverup by a POTUS who got his position after another POTUS was
         | assassinated is one of the most egregious coverups in the last
         | century.
         | 
         | The USAT Liberty was just a ww transport vessel.
        
           | CrazyStat wrote:
           | There's zero evidence that the Liberty was intended to be a
           | false flag. Even most of the people who believe it was a
           | deliberate attack (i.e. Israel knew it was an American ship)
           | don't believe the false flag theory.
        
             | arminiusreturns wrote:
             | Not only is there a ton of inductive evidence, but its been
             | said by survivors themselves. Of course the less "reaching"
             | conclusion is it was to coverup activities they had spied
             | on, but many things don't make sense with that proposal. We
             | will probably never know for sure due to the degree of
             | coverup. To be fair as the remaining survivors have gotten
             | more traction they do usually avoid saying that directly,
             | but they hint at it heavily.
             | 
             | It was deliberate, all the deductive evidence points to it,
             | so I find the framing of "even those who believe it was
             | deliberate" to be slightly misleading.
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | > Not only is there a ton of inductive evidence,
               | 
               | I'm not sure what "inductive" means here. Does Israel
               | have an extensive history of conducting false flag
               | attacks by attacking US ships and then promptly admitting
               | responsibility and apologizing for it?
               | 
               | > but its been said by survivors themselves.
               | 
               | Survivors who are obviously in no position to have any
               | special information about Israel's motives, so
               | irrelevant.
               | 
               | > It was deliberate, all the deductive evidence points to
               | it, so I find the framing of "even those who believe it
               | was deliberate" to be slightly misleading.
               | 
               | Not at all. Israel was at the time a young country with
               | still relatively inexperienced armed forces, and had
               | several notable friendly fire instances, including
               | attacking a British ship during the Suez war. A
               | deliberate attack is certainly plausible, but far from
               | certain.
               | 
               | You want to talk about misleading? How about your
               | incredibly misleading claim that the Liberty was "just a
               | ww [sic] transport vessel." Yes, it was a transport 25
               | years earlier. It was not a transport at the time of the
               | attack. Its past history as a transport is entirely
               | irrelevant.
               | 
               | Israel has committed plenty of real crimes. By all means
               | talk about them. You only hurt your credibility by
               | pushing imaginary ones.
        
               | arminiusreturns wrote:
               | Israel had already at that time even as a young nation
               | esablished they were willing to use false flag
               | operations, primarily in the Kind David hotel bombing and
               | in the Lavon Affair.
               | 
               | These were intelligence agents spying on activities
               | during a war between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria,
               | and they were told, no ordered, to keep their mouths shut
               | about the incident. Their first hand knowledge cannot be
               | so blithely and casually dismissed.
               | 
               | Regardless of your ad hominem attack on the survivors of
               | the massacre, not only do the yet still classified and
               | unreleased NSA tapes exist that will one day confirm, but
               | more recently declassified Israeli cables that support
               | the statement that Israel knew it was American and wanted
               | to sink it on purpose:
               | 
               | "in a pair of diplomatic cables sent by the Israeli
               | ambassador in Washington, Avraham Harman, to Foreign
               | Minister Abba Eban in Tel Aviv.
               | 
               | Five days after the Liberty attack, Harman cabled Eban
               | that a source the Israelis code-named "Hamlet" was
               | reporting that the Americans had "clear proof that from a
               | certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the
               | ship and continued the attack anyway."
               | 
               | Harman repeated the warning three days later, advising
               | Eban, who is now dead, that the White House was "very
               | angry," and that "the reason for this is that the
               | Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots
               | indeed knew that the ship was American."" [1]
               | 
               | Even beyond that, many people in a position to have first
               | hand knowledge spoke to that effect, as can be seen in
               | the rest of [1].
               | 
               | Furthermore, an even more covered up aspect of the story
               | that lends credence to the "false flag" angle is this:
               | according to the book _Operation Cyanide: Why the Bombing
               | of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III_ [2],  "
               | at 8:45 a.m. EDT (2:45 p.m. off the coast of the Sinai
               | Peninsula) on June 8, 1967 two A-4 bomber aircraft loaded
               | with nuclear bombs were dispatched from the aircraft
               | carrier USS America, bound for Cairo with orders to drop
               | those bombs on that city."
               | 
               | As for your comment about UAT liberty transport vessel,
               | the actual relevant tidbit to the original post, it was a
               | _different_ vessel altogether... which I didn 't know,
               | and hence me even bringing this topic up in the first
               | place.
               | 
               | 1. https://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-
               | liberty_tuesoct02-story.h...
               | 
               | 2. https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Cyanide-Bombing-
               | Liberty-Nea...
               | 
               | bonus two more very informational books on the topic:
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079WLV7HT
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07281WLWL
               | 
               | Summary of Events:
               | http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm
               | 
               | Al Jazeera documentary"
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx72tAWVcoM
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | > primarily in the Kind David hotel bombing
               | 
               | Not a good look when your first example is completely
               | nonsensical. Israel didn't exist as an entity at the time
               | of the King David hotel bombing. It also was not a false
               | flag operation. It was carried out by a Jewish group who
               | immediately claimed responsibility for it and apologized
               | for the deaths of the Jews who had been killed. The fact
               | that the perpetrators dressed as non-jews to carry out
               | the attack does not make it a false flag attack.
               | 
               | > Lavon Affair
               | 
               | That one was actually a false flag operation carried out
               | by Israel, so at least you get 1 of 2.
               | 
               | > These were intelligence agents spying on activities
               | during a war between Israel and Egypt, Jordan and Syria,
               | and they were told, no ordered, to keep their mouths shut
               | about the incident. Their first hand knowledge cannot be
               | so blithely and casually dismissed.
               | 
               | Mostly they were sailors, and their first hand knowledge
               | was getting shot at. That's it.
               | 
               | > Regardless of your ad hominem attack
               | 
               | Nothing I said can be construed as an ad hominem attack
               | on the survivors.
               | 
               | > not only do the yet still classified and unreleased NSA
               | tapes exist that will one day confirm, but more recently
               | declassified Israeli cables that support the statement
               | that Israel knew it was American and wanted to sink it on
               | purpose:
               | 
               | Passing over the unsupported claims about what the NSA
               | tapes may show, which you obviously don't actually know,
               | none of this supports the false flag claim--only the
               | deliberate attack claim.
               | 
               | > according to the book Operation Cyanide: Why the
               | Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III
               | [2], " at 8:45 a.m. EDT (2:45 p.m. off the coast of the
               | Sinai Peninsula) on June 8, 1967 two A-4 bomber aircraft
               | loaded with nuclear bombs were dispatched from the
               | aircraft carrier USS America, bound for Cairo with orders
               | to drop those bombs on that city."
               | 
               | This also doesn't support the false flag claim, since it
               | only speaks to the US reaction to the incident, not
               | Israel's motive.
               | 
               | In summary, you have presented no evidence that supports
               | the false flag claim.
               | 
               | > As for your comment about UAT liberty transport vessel,
               | the actual relevant tidbit to the original post, it was a
               | different vessel altogether... which I didn't know, and
               | hence me even bringing this topic up in the first place.
               | 
               | Sorry, I misread that. That's on me.
        
               | kfprt wrote:
               | 'But Sir, It's an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!'
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Overall I agree with you, but arminiusreturns was
               | claiming that the _USAT_ Liberty, the one at Bali, was a
               | WWII transport, _not_ the _USS_ Liberty, the one Israel
               | attacked.
        
               | kfprt wrote:
               | It's amazing the level of defensive outrage this event
               | generates 50 plus years on. If we can't have an open
               | discussion about shady events in the past then maybe we
               | need to investigate the current interests preventing that
               | open discussion.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | > The resulting coverup by a POTUS who got his position after
           | another POTUS was assassinated is one of the most egregious
           | coverups in the last century.
           | 
           | Yeah... um... you sound like a conspiracy-theory nutcase when
           | you write like this. How is Kennedy's assassination relevant
           | here? What are you darkly hinting at, but not coming out and
           | saying?
           | 
           | Writing like this is called "vagueposting", and it's really
           | shoddy. Don't make us guess what your point is. Either make a
           | clear claim, or don't bother.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | redis_mlc wrote:
         | Until the Battle of the Coral Sea, from 4 to 8 May 1942, the
         | Allies were hapless against the Japanese.
         | 
         | It was so bad that an Australian ship had to camouflage as
         | vegetation and sneak away.
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | I hadn't realized seismic shifts and volcanic activity could
       | cause a land upheaval so spontaneously.
       | 
       | As I was reading HP Lovecraft's _Dagon_ [0] I wondered whether or
       | not such a thing were possible - most of the story takes place on
       | that type of terrain.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/d.aspx
        
         | sintaxi wrote:
         | Lake Titicaca in Peru which is 12,500 feet above sea level and
         | it sits in a sedimentary basin that was apparently below sea
         | level at some time in the past since the lake is made up of
         | diluted salt water.
        
       | alleycat5000 wrote:
       | Here's a interesting talk on the underlying volcano and uplift.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/SPmT0aS0pK4
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | Land: They're making more of it.
        
         | missedthecue wrote:
         | In fact, the world has _gained_ a net 13,565 square kilometers
         | (5,237 square miles) of land since 1985, according to satellite
         | data.
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-coasts-idUS...
        
         | nathancahill wrote:
         | That's the joke in Hawaii. More beach front property by the
         | minute.
        
       | polycaster wrote:
       | I understand the main point of the article is that the ships were
       | lifted due to vulcanic activity. Still, as this creates the image
       | of graves being lifted:
       | 
       | ,,To be clear, these ships aren't victims of a battle; instead,
       | the U.S. Navy intentionally scuttled them at the location in 1945
       | after taking the island in an attempt to create an artificial
       | breakwater for a planned harbor. Several of them are reinforced
       | concrete barges, ships built to support naval operations and not
       | necessarily for any direct combat role."
       | 
       | https://www.thedrive.com/news/42802/volcanic-activity-lifts-...
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-25 23:01 UTC)