[HN Gopher] 5 side projects in 6 years, earning $0
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       5 side projects in 6 years, earning $0
        
       Author : kw_dev
       Score  : 195 points
       Date   : 2021-10-24 18:35 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kwcodes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kwcodes.com)
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | I like to hear about other people's failure. For one, it makes me
       | less critical of my own failures. Then I can also learn and
       | improve for the future.
       | 
       | I have two Android apps. Neither bring in money. One I
       | intentionally did not monetize. The other I tried to. I targeted
       | the wrong audience and my UI could have been more flashy.
       | 
       | I've had ideas for other projects, but they're usually already
       | patented or they're too niche to really make money (involves some
       | hardware).
        
       | mfollert wrote:
       | "Get a Product Job (May 2020 - May 2021) This time the main
       | objective was to learn something new by doing. I chose Ruby on
       | Rails. It's a great framework to build websites quickly."
       | 
       | Choosing Roby on Rails in 2020 as a "new framework" for web
       | development ... sheesh.
        
         | luto wrote:
         | I'm not a RoR developer, but still: which framework would you
         | use for a new web project in 2021?
        
           | hoofhearted wrote:
           | Laravel, VueJS for quick prototyping.
           | 
           | Asp.net core with ReactJS for web, and React Native for
           | Windows for any serious projects with SLA's or multiple
           | developers.
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | node.js + express or rust + rocket
        
           | schnebbau wrote:
           | Django with python, or express with js/ts.
        
         | namenotrequired wrote:
         | It was clear to me the author meant "new to me"
        
           | joshmanders wrote:
           | Right, Ruby on Rails was out for a whole decade by the time I
           | heard of it.
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | I don't like using RoR personally, but it's not a dying
         | platform. There's still a large active community around it.
         | It's fine.
        
           | mehphp wrote:
           | I don't either but ruby isn't just active, it's larger than
           | it's ever been.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | Another day, another person saying Rails is dead.
         | 
         | *sigh*
        
       | zapstar wrote:
       | I hope this write-up was a healthy and effective way to help you
       | mourn these losses. (And then move on to the next big idea!)
       | Kudos to you for experimenting like this.
       | 
       | Would you consider adding them to the Project Cemetery[0]? Then
       | others could learn from them too!
       | 
       | [0] https://projectcemetery.com
        
       | brailsafe wrote:
       | What a lot of loud successful people wouldn't like to admit, is
       | that even if you show up and do the work, you have to be very
       | lucky to get traction for anything, regardless of novelty. True
       | for being an employee or a business. For the latter, it helps to
       | be very lucky and opportunistic with timing to begin with.
        
       | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
       | What's the genre of the "planetoid" game called? I remember many
       | games like this, both open source and flash, but can't find any
       | of them and don't know if there's a name for the genre.
        
       | polote wrote:
       | It's ok to fail sometimes, but if you only fail the only way for
       | you to stop failing is to be lucky. It doesn't seem like a good
       | strategy to me.
       | 
       | But yeah if the goal of OP is the guy he quoted at the end "Had a
       | business idea that I think could build in 24 hours and get to
       | $5,000 MRR in 30 days". Keep trying, survivor bias is still alive
        
       | herval wrote:
       | All these have a thing in common: he gave up because they weren't
       | immediate successes. Some even had traction: 5 users in 3 months
       | isn't the incredible outlier story you hear time and time again,
       | but it's 5 people you can talk to, listen to what they want (and
       | why they signed up anyway), then you gear up from there.
       | 
       | We're too conditioned to believe in the stories of immediate
       | success and MVPs making tens of thousands of dollars immediately.
       | Those are exceedingly rare, and you might be able to pull it off
       | when you have a massive audience. Jumping from project to project
       | won't net you that audience, so you end up spending time in
       | circles... and earning $0.
        
         | codegeek wrote:
         | Yea if you read the article, it is actually more like 5 side
         | projects in 4 years (took a 2 year break). That is way too many
         | projects to try for real results. Nothing to take away from the
         | effort and learnings though. I commend people who try to build
         | anything. However, most people give up too quickly. It takes
         | months or even a year or 2 to really get traction on any
         | project if you want to be serious and I am not talking VC
         | funded but bootstrapped. Yes the risk of doing something for 2
         | years is big but you need to do a lot more customer
         | discovery/validation than just 2-3 months before you give up.
         | 
         | If you just want to learn how to build stuff for fun, sure do 5
         | projects that quickly. But if you want to build anything to
         | make money (even if small), you must spend more than a few
         | months on it. That is why software developers are not all
         | entrepreneurs because even though a lot of us can build stuff,
         | we don't know what to do with it.
        
           | doctor_eval wrote:
           | Also, only one of the side projects actually broke any ground
           | at all. Mostly they were abandoned after less than a month.
           | 
           | A couple of weeks of part time desk research is not a side
           | hustle. It's simply due diligence.
           | 
           | Disappointed that the game didn't go ahead as it's something
           | I'd definitely play. Reminds me of x-battle.
        
         | pytlicek wrote:
         | Absolutely agree with you, 5 users here, 5 there and you will
         | have hundreds in 1 year, 500 after 2 years and so on... This
         | happened to me with my side project hostbeat.info. I have
         | started it bcs some of my friends wanted this kind of service.
         | Then I have realized that I can do it as a multi-user SaaS. I
         | was expecting thousands of users in the first month, still
         | don't know why :) (perhaps I made it free of charge?) Made a
         | post on 3-4 forums/discussions, etc... scaled my server to
         | handle load almost to 10.000 daily active users. And.... 2
         | registrations happened in the first month. This was not
         | expected and hit me hard. But later on, as you write, it
         | started to gain some traction. One user per week, 2, then 3
         | users. Sometimes 2 new per day, the other day or week or month
         | nothing. Sometimes I am surprised that some big player on the
         | IT market has registered and is also actively using it (2
         | largest telco operators in DE and AT fe.) I don't care anymore
         | about profit or userbase. I'm happy with it as is and sometimes
         | users are sending me emails and thanking me for such service.
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | So, do your friends use it? :)
        
         | soylentnewsorg wrote:
         | I think the common thing here is not giving up w/o immediate
         | success. That is a very good idea sometimes. Homer Simpson
         | built a goofy car, people were exposed to it and he got
         | negative feedback, and he rightly abandoned it. Some projects
         | are a bad idea, you don't know they are, and once you find out
         | they are, you absolutely should not keep wasting resources due
         | to the sunk cost of wishful thinking.
         | 
         | His common issue is he expected to invest time to make money.
         | You need to invest money to make money. This is why I sometimes
         | laugh at a guy who can't get a good job, has no savings, is
         | borrowing cash from friends to pay the rent and maxing out
         | credit cards for food. Sometimes that guy's solution to being
         | poor is "I'm going to start my own business." When you build on
         | a foundation of nothing, your house collapses.
         | 
         | He ran an ad campaign - it clearly worked. He needed to run it
         | more, and bigger, and yes, eat the cost of it from personal
         | savings. In a business, you first spend money, then you make
         | money. There are no freebies just because you have an idea.
         | Stories of that happening are like self-learning guitar because
         | you plan on being a rockstar.
         | 
         | The reason people don't want to pay for a new project from a
         | new person? Because there's high risk of it being dead within a
         | year - like all of this guy's projects. It's the same reason I
         | don't start watching any new shows till they've had a few
         | seasons out. Don't want to invest hours into the plot just to
         | have it cancelled and left w/o closure in after two seasons.
         | 
         | It's also a reason no one joined things like google plus or
         | used any of their other now dead projects. They proudly declare
         | they try many things to see what sticks and kill the rest.
         | Well, I'm not willing to give my time for free to their unpaid
         | focus group.
         | 
         | So what he needed to do was save up, spend those savings on
         | letting people know about his product, take the risk of loosing
         | that cash, and give the product away at first. Then when the
         | paid product comes, there is a huge user base he paid for, and
         | people see the risk of it being killed as minimized.
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | So much this sentiment. I ask people I mentor "why do you
         | measure yourself in dollars?" and they often respond with
         | something like "all the successful people I admire are rich."
         | or something along those lines.
         | 
         | Money is a 'first derivative' of success and a lagging
         | indicator.
         | 
         | Measure yourself by what you learn not by what you earn and you
         | will be sticking to projects longer because the payoff will be
         | in what they are teaching you. Everything you learn gets you
         | that much closer to a side project that brings in money as well
         | as experience. Why? Because you'll _know_ what is important and
         | what is not, you will _know_ how things waste money and how to
         | avoid them, you will _know_ what metrics are important and what
         | they mean.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | One the one hand, I'd observe that most people's side-
           | projects, aka hobbies, were never expected to make money.
           | Short of opening a shop your pottery or whatever wasjust
           | something you did.
           | 
           | On the other hand I recognize it's somewhat privileged to
           | just shrug off making money with "side hustles."
        
             | jabl wrote:
             | Well, it's also kind of privileged to expect to have such a
             | "side hustle" that you enjoy doing, and that generates
             | income.
             | 
             | Sure, people used to have side hustles back in the day, but
             | maybe more like weeding your potato plants after a back-
             | breaking day at the factory.
        
             | ChuckMcM wrote:
             | I would be interested in how you got to here:
             | 
             | > On the other hand I recognize it's somewhat privileged to
             | just shrug off making money with "side hustles."
             | 
             | Was it from what I wrote or was it unrelated?
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I was just referring to expectations that projects you do
               | outside of your main job can be turned into money-making
               | enterprises. And, from my perspective, this is usually
               | not the case and I'm fine with it but it's easy to see
               | that being dismissive of side hustles assumes a well-
               | paying 9-5 job.
        
           | rahimiali wrote:
           | > Money is a 'first derivative' of success
           | 
           | Does that mean that even if my success stagnates at "quite
           | successful", I make no money at all? That doesn't make sense
           | to me. How would that work?
        
             | Buge wrote:
             | Yeah I think it would be the other way around: money would
             | be the integral of success.
        
         | martincmartin wrote:
         | Reminds me of "Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it."
         | by Joel Spolsky.
         | 
         | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/07/21/good-software-take...
        
           | tppiotrowski wrote:
           | https://i1.wp.com/www.joelonsoftware.com/wp-
           | content/uploads/...
           | 
           | This chart is a good example of having no traction for years
           | and then growing exponentially. We usually hear about a
           | company once it hits the inflection point so it seems like an
           | overnight success.
        
             | ZephyrBlu wrote:
             | "no traction" lol. After 2 years that chart shows 35k
             | users. That's only no traction in relation to the final
             | outcome.
             | 
             | Imagine this was money instead, where the final result was
             | $1B and after the first 2 years it was _only_ $1M.
             | 
             | $1M is only "no traction" in relation to $1B. In absolute
             | terms it's pretty damn good.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | This has been my experience.
           | 
           | I'm working on an app that will be released in the next few
           | months (we don't have a definite ship date, yet).
           | 
           | It's based on two servers that I wrote. One, I wrote eleven
           | or twelve years ago, and has become a world standard; but
           | only in the last three years. Since it's a specialized
           | demographic, the numbers are quite small, for "world
           | standard."
           | 
           | The other server is one that I wrote, about four years ago.
           | It took me seven months. It's a very good general-purpose
           | application server. I wrote it for practice, but it's also
           | ideal for the app I'm writing.
           | 
           | I've been working on the frontend app for over a year. It's
           | really, really good. I deliberately took my time, because we
           | went through a lot of "MVP" stuff, during its development.
           | 
           | The rest of the team seems to think it will take the world by
           | storm, when it's released, but I don't think it will.
           | 
           | That's fine with me. I don't mind a slow burn. I've written
           | software that lasts _decades_.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | Completely agree. Good ideas are abandoned too often because of
         | bad advice from influencers and unrealistic expectations. I
         | actually wrote about this a few weeks ago ^1.
         | 
         | ^1: https://keygen.sh/blog/5-things-ive-learned-in-5-years/
        
         | kjksf wrote:
         | I don't think "just stick with it" is a good advice in general
         | and especially not for his projects.
         | 
         | He was smart to abandon his minimal time tracker, minimal
         | metronome and jobs website.
         | 
         | BTW: he didn't get 5 users for minimal time tracker, he got 5
         | people who signed up for a mailing list based on screenshots of
         | non-existing product.
         | 
         | Even smarter would be to not do such projects in the first
         | place.
         | 
         | With jobs websites you need a giant, unfair advantage over all
         | other job websites.
         | 
         | Metronome and minimal time tracker are both vitamins, not pain
         | killers. They don't solve a painful problem that people are
         | obviously willing to pay for.
         | 
         | They are also extremely competitive.
         | 
         | The only idea that was somewhat viable was time tracker, but
         | only if he managed to stand out from all the other time
         | trackers and masterfully execute both the product and
         | marketing.
         | 
         | There is no recipe for a successful projects but there are
         | plenty of giant red flags that you should notice and avoid.
         | 
         | High competition is a red flag. Low value to potential users is
         | a red flag.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | As Guy Kawasaki once said in Art of the Start : "You want to
           | be high and on the right." You make something everyone wants
           | and is of great value, and only you can make it. The worst
           | place is making something that 50 others do and is of no
           | value to the customer.
        
             | zeroc8 wrote:
             | The only problem is that pretty much anything I can do has
             | been done a zillion times by others.
        
               | kjksf wrote:
               | I doubt that's true.
               | 
               | I have literally hundreds of ideas.
               | 
               | As an experiment I put them on a website for anyone to
               | see and "steal": https://blog.kowalczyk.info/article/e413
               | 2d5a44014b2aad81d815...
               | 
               | I'm not saying those are all great, profitable ideas.
               | 
               | I'm saying that they are doable by a competent programmer
               | and unique enough. Certainly not "done a zillion times by
               | others".
        
               | zepolen wrote:
               | That list really drives home the 'ideas are cheap'
               | phrase.
               | 
               | I guess the good ideas are expensive.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | That might _appear to be_ the case, but probably isn't.
               | There's often not anything harder to implement a CRUD app
               | that solves a novel problem than implementing a CRUD app
               | that solves the same problem as 100 other people are
               | hawking.
        
           | xyzzy21 wrote:
           | Yep!
           | 
           | You have to learn how and when to KILL YOUR CHILDREN (your
           | ideas)!
           | 
           | I typically come up with a dozen ideas a week - most of them
           | don't pass hurdles of basic physics or economics, or once you
           | research "the market" you discover there isn't one. So you
           | plunge a knife into the idea and kill it quick. You have to
           | learn how to do this. I do minimally document them and then
           | file them away, however. Things can change.
           | 
           | Then you absolutely may need to spend YEARS at the few that
           | survive. But you are always checking, setting hurdles and
           | milestones and being ready to kill off the idea that doesn't
           | have any more to work.
           | 
           | Or you discover YOU aren't the one who can take through that
           | jungle and then you have to decide what to do about that.
           | Sometimes you find someone who can and take a minority
           | venture stake in what they can do with it. Sometimes you have
           | to wait until ideas or technologies become more mature. Or
           | you need to put it on the back burner as you can accumulate
           | more capital to "do it right".
           | 
           | You do need an incumbent in most cases to prove the market
           | exists but you want to shy away from the "popular" products
           | because of high competition you won't likely match.
        
           | redisman wrote:
           | Yeah the first step if you want to be successful on some
           | metric is to type "time tracker" into AppStore search and see
           | that is completely hopeless and pick something else that
           | doesn't already have 100+ professional and commercial
           | implementations
        
       | askvictor wrote:
       | My 5-odd side side projects over the last decade have mostly been
       | tools I've built for myself, that I thought other people might
       | also find useful (and a bit for developing new skills, and fun).
       | Though I thought it might be nice to get a few dollars for
       | ongoing work/support, but in most of my cases, the options to
       | monetize are too complicated to bother with - in my case wanting
       | corporate users to pay some amount, while being free for personal
       | users. The time involved in setting this up isn't worth the
       | likely (lack of) return.
       | 
       | Honestly, even listing in an app store is a pretty big barrier
       | (bureaucracy-wise) these days for a side-project - on one project
       | I probably spent more time jumping through these hoops than on
       | developing a MVP.
        
       | bufferoverflow wrote:
       | Minimal metronome and minimal time tracker are close to useless,
       | because the market is so saturated, and there are tons of free
       | options.
       | 
       | You need to start with validating your idea instead of wasting
       | days/months on coding.
        
         | iamstupidsimple wrote:
         | Also, I think we need to stop rewarding 'minimal' products.
         | Like you said, there's no room for minimal time tracking, but
         | there's definitely room for more high quality, feature-dense
         | time tracking tools.
        
       | necovek wrote:
       | This was 3 projects from 5 ideas of projects.
       | 
       | If I count ideas I had that I never seriously started on, I've
       | failed hundreds of projects.
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | Just get a web site ready for the next time a ship gets stuck.
        
       | mehphp wrote:
       | I see this a lot: a clearly talented person who is unable to
       | monetize their project.
       | 
       | At a glance, it looks like OP is just building stuff, throwing it
       | at a wall and seeing what sticks. Of course, that is bound to
       | fail. You are, essentially, playing the lottery.
       | 
       | Nowhere in that blog did I see any mention of figuring out what a
       | customer is looking for in a game or a product.
       | 
       | What is the niche you are trying to fill or pain-point you are
       | trying to solve? It would be much better to build something
       | _after_ you know people want it, not before.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | carlsborg wrote:
       | Carlsborg's law: Distribution is as important as product,
       | especially when the barriers to entry are low.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | There's something called _market analysis_: you either find a gap
       | in the market for software tools, or you talk to people and ask
       | what they would pay for _before_ starting to code.
       | 
       | Yes, you can jump straight into coding for your side projects,
       | but not if your primary goal is to earn a steady side income (it
       | may work but unlikely so).
       | 
       | But good to see negative outcome reports to counter-balance the
       | extreme survivor bias on here.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | > How I failed 5 side projects in 6 years, earning $0
       | 
       | Not earning money is not a failure. Wasting time on non-free
       | software the purpose of which is making money - now that's
       | unfortunate.
       | 
       | My advice to that guy would be:
       | 
       | * Write software you need personally. You will at least have one
       | happy user - and if you write something you like, other people
       | will probably want to use it too.
       | 
       | * Think of the software needs of people you know - in your
       | family, physical community, or online communities - and see
       | whether you can't help implement it or adapt/improve existing
       | software for that purpose.
        
       | StevePerkins wrote:
       | Maybe I'm just old and cranky and this is a generational thing,
       | but when did "side project" become mixed up with "side hustle"?
       | 
       | I think the dead horse has been beaten already in this thread,
       | with what the author "should have done" in terms of market
       | research, A/B testing, MVP, etc. No need for me to pile on
       | further there.
       | 
       | But what strikes me is that the author _really_ seems to draw no
       | distinction between personal side projects, done for the purpose
       | of developing new skills that you aren 't learning at your day
       | job (e.g. iOS development, Ruby on Rails, etc)... versus
       | entrepreneurial side hustles that you pursue for the dream of
       | financial independence.
       | 
       | I think the the lesson here is, "Pick one". If you're trying to
       | get rich, then that's not the time dive into some completely
       | unfamiliar tech whose learning curve will slow down your
       | velocity. You should be leveraging whatever boring tech you
       | already know and are already most productive in, so you can focus
       | on the marketing research and business side of things.
       | Conversely, if you're trying to dive into an educational side
       | project to learn new skills, then it's rather naive to expect
       | that to be a path to riches. It won't be, and that's okay!
        
         | bluewalt wrote:
         | That's a relevant advice IMO.
         | 
         | However, as a tech guy trying to build stuff too, I need
         | continuous motivation for this. I need to stay in a "flow"
         | state. And a good fuel to this is to learn new cool things
         | during the journey.
         | 
         | To put it differently, I think you need to find the right
         | balance between fun and efficiency, even if your goal is to
         | earn money in the end. Trying to always look for the maximum
         | efficiency could be a short term vision that quickly lead to
         | boringness.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Normal_gaussian wrote:
         | > personal side projects, done for the purpose of developing
         | new skills
         | 
         | That sounds like a work focused side project to me. Things I've
         | made that are personal side projects - iot blind controls
         | (because I wanted it), magic mirror (because I wamted it),
         | triathlon result parser (because me and my so wanted to settle
         | some race stats debates), groupable containerised desktop apps
         | (because I wanted it) etc.
         | 
         | None of my personal side projects set out to develop new
         | skills, they set out to make me or a loved one happy. Often
         | they _do_ develop new skills. My partner is currently stripping
         | and repainting an old bike - shes learning loads, but thats not
         | the intent. The intent is to make it match her other gear
         | because that makes her happy.
        
       | alirsgp wrote:
       | I've published ~20 iOS apps. Only 4 make money, but they allowed
       | me to reach financial independence and never have to work for
       | someone gain at the age of 24.
        
       | IkmoIkmo wrote:
       | Bit of a painful read. On the first game, it's a common game
       | concept (very much not novel) that I've seen many people
       | recreate. I built one myself with better graphics and gameplay
       | over the course of a week and sold it for 5k to a games publisher
       | around 2013-2014, about 2-3 years before they released their
       | game. That publisher offered it for free on an ad model. I can't
       | believe working on it for a year, with two people, for free,
       | releasing it in 2016 and expecting any sales.
       | 
       | Enough has been said about the projects in general already which
       | mostly mimics the game (not solving a real user problem, late-
       | entry, competing with existing solutions, no marketing)
        
       | ffhhj wrote:
       | And you know what's worst than earning $0?
       | 
       | - The store not accepting your app because there are too many of
       | the same topic (horoscopes, memes, sound boards, whatever-craft
       | names, etc.)
       | 
       | - Spending lots of money on Google/FB ads.
       | 
       | - Spending lots of money on AWS.
       | 
       | - Burning out yourself and your friends.
        
         | skeoh wrote:
         | Could you expound on this? Are you speaking from experience?
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | "I have not failed 10,000 times -- I've successfully found 10,000
       | ways that will not work." -- Thomas Edison
        
         | tomcooks wrote:
         | Alessandro Cruto, Alexander Nikolayevich Lodygin, James Bowman
         | Lindsay, Nikola Tesla, and many others have different opinion
         | on said quote.
        
       | cushychicken wrote:
       | I'm one of the folks who took part in The Quittening that the
       | last year has made for us. I left a demanding, unfulfilling
       | startup job in July. The main factors in why I was able to do
       | this was:
       | 
       | * a large nest egg due to nearly a decade of investing as much
       | excess income as possible into index funds (If you're in the FIRE
       | community, I suppose you could say I'm in a state of "Lean
       | FIRE".)
       | 
       | * being married to someone who had the understanding to support
       | me in pursuing this, as well as help me purchase affordable
       | health insurance thru her work. (Love you, Emma!)
       | 
       | I took a few months off to not work on anything, at all, except
       | for some very small pet-projects - programming for fun kinda
       | stuff. Starting about a month ago, my focus shifted towards
       | launching a job board targeted to a pretty specific niche in my
       | main area of expertise. It's been my full time thing for about a
       | month, and I'm getting some appreciable traction in the form of
       | newsletter signups. Hasn't made me any money yet. I'd tried
       | launching a few small websites before as part-time endeavors; all
       | of those have ended exactly like the author's posts have.
       | 
       | Given all that meandering context: one of the things this project
       | has taught me is that it is INCREDIBLY HARD to launch a side
       | business with a day job. I'm not a web developer, so I've had to
       | spend a lot of time learning HTML, CSS, JS, and all the LAMP
       | stack stuff as I go. I had to spend three or four whole days just
       | figuring out how to deploy this fucking thing to a cloud service.
       | That's supposed to be easy! Or, at least, all the cloud
       | providers' websites would have you think so. At least two of
       | those days were trying and failing to set up AWS instances.
       | (Thank god almighty for PythonAnywhere.)
       | 
       | I used to think I was stupid or unskilled for not being able to
       | launch websites and software businesses in my spare time. Nope!
       | Turns out, it's hard work, and it can easily take up all of your
       | working hours! It's easy to think, being an HN netizen, that
       | there are tons of people who can do this as a side hustle and
       | make bank doing easy work, but I simply don't believe that's
       | true. I think the folks who do succeed at this are some
       | combination of:
       | 
       | * lucky,
       | 
       | * very attuned to a niche market with money to spend, or
       | 
       | * blessed with exceptional product sense for a software utility
       | that doesn't exist yet.
       | 
       | OP - I'm sorry that none of your efforts have yielded monetary
       | success, and I admire your perseverance for continuing to try.
       | It's easy to beat yourself up over trying so hard, so many times,
       | and being rewarded with nothing back. I just wanted to say that
       | what you are trying is harder than most folks on HN want to
       | admit, and to try to hang onto your positive attitude towards
       | continuing to learn. Your opportunity will come.
        
       | cryptica wrote:
       | I launched 5 major software projects over the last 15 years. The
       | first one was a failure; the big lesson I learned from that
       | failure was that I couldn't salvage or re-purpose any of the
       | code; aside from educational value, all that work had been
       | wasted. After that experience, I tried to build all my projects
       | in such a way that I could always salvage/re-purpose my work.
       | 
       | My second project was a software development framework which I
       | tried to sell it as a SaaS platform. The platform was a
       | commercial failure but the open source framework became popular
       | and I was able to convince the founders of a popular blockchain
       | project to use it as part of their P2P layer.
       | 
       | Although that project was a technical success, because I didn't
       | own any meaningful stake in that blockchain project, I wasn't
       | able to capitalize on this opportunity so it was a commercial
       | failure for me.
       | 
       | So then we (me and some open source community members who joined
       | along the way) used that blockchain as a base to build a
       | Decentralized Exchange and 2 new blockchain projects. Although
       | these projects have not yet succeeded commercially (still working
       | on it), I managed to secure passive income as a blockchain
       | validator on the base blockchain. Securing this passive income
       | was my first hint of commercial success after 10 years of trying.
       | Anyway, it's an ongoing story but if my current 3 active projects
       | don't succeed commercially, I have already planned for the next
       | projects to build on top...
       | 
       | The goal is to just keep building stuff on top of this blockchain
       | ecosystem, welcoming new contributors along the way and keeping
       | everything open source.
        
       | encoderer wrote:
       | Main lesson that seems to not have been learned yet, since it's
       | not mentioned at the end:
       | 
       | If you want to make money (any money at all), stop focusing on
       | consumer products, build a small B2B product instead.
        
       | pcj-github wrote:
       | What seems lacking in the choice of projects is a particular
       | expertise in any of these subjects. Pick an area of study, try
       | and narrow it as much as possible, stick with it over several
       | years, and seek to become the world's expert on that very narrow
       | topic (which is hopefully useful). Then you will understand what
       | needs to be built.
        
         | WhisperingShiba wrote:
         | Alternatively, you commit to a field of expertise, only to
         | become narrow minded, and unable to synthesize simple ideas
         | into products end users care about.
        
       | poorjohnmacafee wrote:
       | "Success Is Going From Failure to Failure Without Losing Your
       | Enthusiasm"
       | 
       | Lincoln
        
         | yesenadam wrote:
         | More commonly attributed to Churchill, but apparently there's
         | no evidence either of them said it.
         | 
         | https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/06/28/success/
        
       | crispyalmond wrote:
       | I wouldn't consider projects which make $0 to be failures, unless
       | your intent was to make money from them. I like making
       | tools/games in my spare time with no intention of profiting from
       | them. I simply enjoy the programming aspect way more than any
       | monetary value. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like the money,
       | but it's not my primary focus for making these projects.
        
         | bluewalt wrote:
         | That's a very strong advice to remove irrelevant guilt. Many
         | people bind success with money. That's just one thing you can
         | benefit.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | My 10 year project (a computer-geometry-art thing) (yes, 10
       | years, 1 project) was a great success. I made zip cash. But that
       | was not the aim of the project.
       | 
       | http://www.fleen.org/generative-art/
        
         | cableshaft wrote:
         | Damn that's impressive. I could see that on the floor of an
         | important building. Somebody make that happen!
        
         | tekstar wrote:
         | If you don't, you could consider posting some of your art to
         | reddit.com/r/generative or to instagram. It's a really popular
         | concept right now, although a bit plagued with people jumping
         | on the NFT train trying to make money with generative "drops".
        
         | oa335 wrote:
         | Do you have any recommendations as to how to get started
         | creating your style of generative art?
         | 
         | I have been interested in a similar project for sometime, but
         | don't know the best place to get started. My background is in
         | Math, so I'd really like to understand the "why" and "how" of
         | these types of algorithms rather than just plugging in some
         | parameters and getting a nice picture.
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | Here's a little paper on the geometry
           | 
           | https://github.com/johnalexandergreene/Geom_Kisrhombille
        
       | bellajbadr wrote:
       | Why didn't you open source your projects!!
        
       | xivzgrev wrote:
       | Good for you man. I don't really see much about customer pain
       | points though.
       | 
       | If people aren't in pain they aren't going to buy / use your
       | stuff.
       | 
       | Take the product job board. At first I thought it was product
       | manager jobs, but doesn't that already exist? Then after seeing
       | accounts payable and other stuff I realized you meant tech, which
       | also exists already. So why would people use yours?
       | 
       | Your startup HAS to solve something better than existing
       | solutions. For example -Uber was a taxi, but cheaper and much
       | better -Facebook was MySpace but geared toward your in person
       | friends / clean interface. Turns out people preferred not having
       | to customize their page -TikTok was vine but done way better. Its
       | learning algorithm is unbelievable, it leans into Adding music
       | which makes everything more fun, etc. it's a markedly better way
       | for people to express themselves
       | 
       | The one project you build for yourself, the metronome, already
       | had a solution you discovered after you started building
       | 
       | So I'd really spend some time on the problem first. Read the lean
       | startup. Talk to customers. And figure out if a project is
       | actually a smart bet. Your product has to be markedly better for
       | some group of customers - if it's just a little better, people
       | aren't going to switch
        
       | willcate wrote:
       | I've been on a similar trajectory.
        
       | jpomykala wrote:
       | Try to stay longer on an idea than a few weeks.
        
       | human wrote:
       | I find this kind of post very interesting. The key takeaways from
       | my point of view is that none of these projects actually created
       | value. Most of them didn't solve a problem that other software
       | hadn't already solved. The most interesting one I think was the
       | appartment notitication one. Especially that today there is such
       | a race if you want to find a good and affordable appartment. It's
       | just too bad the author wasn't able to create something simple
       | for this. At the end of the day, you have to try 10 ideas to get
       | one off the ground. But you also have to give them a serious
       | shot, which doesn't seem to have been the case here. You often
       | will have to invest actual money to get your idea out there and
       | popular. Unless it's a one in a million that will go viral on its
       | own.
        
       | ergocoder wrote:
       | For every remoteok.io which is a single PHP file and makes $100k
       | a month, there are 1000 of failed job boards. I suppose this is
       | the reality.
        
         | 6510 wrote:
         | There it simply becomes a marketing project not a software
         | project.
        
           | ZephyrBlu wrote:
           | It's true, but developers don't like to hear that because we
           | like writing code not marketing shit.
        
       | grammarnazzzi wrote:
       | People pay for services because it's _work_ that they are unable
       | or unwilling to do themselves
       | 
       | Building things that people will not pay for is called a hobby.
       | 
       | You're not entited to an income from your hobbies.
       | 
       | > This is a story about me dreaming
       | 
       | Yup
       | 
       | > 5 side projects in 6 years, earning $0 (kwcodes.com)
       | 
       | You didn't even try to finish 2 of the 5 projects You didn't even
       | do anything in 2 of the 6 years.
       | 
       | Your title is clickbait. Seems like you want attention more than
       | you want money.
       | 
       | By comparison, looking at my github, I started over 50 projects
       | in last year and finished a dozen of them. Hobbies all of them
       | and I didn't expect to make a dime. If you want a reality check,
       | head over to https://itch.io/jams. You'll find 10,000 hobbies
       | projects not making any money.
        
       | hirako2000 wrote:
       | It wouldn't surprise me if that's far below the average number of
       | "failures" to face before any sort of success anyone, regardless
       | of their aptitude or luck will be met. All I see among people who
       | make it is that they spent years trying things, they won't tweet
       | every disappointment .
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | Sharing some thoughts in the spirit of us all learning and
       | improving:
       | 
       | Re: Planetoid my immediate first impression was "I don't
       | understand what's going on here". With that one it seems like
       | maybe the author should have vetted the basic idea with friends
       | and family first and see if they get it.
       | 
       | Re: Minfinity it seems useful and is actually right up my alley!
       | I feel like the strategy here would be to keep it in maintenance
       | mode and wait and see if it ever picks up popularity (such as in
       | a thread like this).
       | 
       | My big takeaway from reading the author's post is that it seems
       | to drive home the importance of
       | marketing/advertising/selling/etc. Those stories about the
       | Collison brothers pitching their product to developers and then
       | doing the somewhat socially awkward thing of pressuring them try
       | it out right there on the spot is burned in my memory.
        
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