[HN Gopher] Self studying the MIT applied math curriculum (2019)
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       Self studying the MIT applied math curriculum (2019)
        
       Author : jiggle123
       Score  : 191 points
       Date   : 2021-10-24 17:12 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smallstepcap.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smallstepcap.com)
        
       | joconde wrote:
       | Is this doable for someone with less basis in math? I almost
       | stopped studying math after two years of undergrad, when I went
       | to a more practically-focused school. It'd be nice to get back
       | into shape, because I've started reading research articles and
       | always feel like I'm behind on the theory side of ML.
        
         | rsj_hn wrote:
         | It depends very much on your own skills and drive.
         | 
         | At some point, you need people to check your work, though, but
         | you can search for online communities to do that. E.g. a post
         | to mathoverflow asking about whether the following proof is
         | correct, for example. Try to find a community of others online
         | and work with them.
         | 
         | Also remember that math is about _ideas_. It is not just an
         | exercise in formal deduction. The field is dense with non-
         | trivial, non-obvious, interesting insights, and understanding
         | these insights so well that overtime they become obvious to you
         | is what it means to learn math. Sites like 3Blue1Brown to a
         | good job trying to explain these ideas, but they really put a
         | lot of work into it. Most math texts do not, but you have a
         | professor or classmate you can talk to -- so there is a gap
         | between the text and what you need, but perhaps you can close
         | the gap with online resources.
        
           | jknz wrote:
           | Mathoverflow is for level research questions.
           | 
           | Homework type questions (anything before PhD student level)
           | are typically asked on https://math.stackexchange.com/
        
           | jimhefferon wrote:
           | > At some point, you need people to check your work, though,
           | 
           | Agree with that, 100%. Most of my students will, at some
           | point in a course, respond to questions with things that are
           | completely wrong. It's just how people learn. If there was
           | not someone to correct their mistake then they would struggle
           | a lot to find the error and fix it.
           | 
           | One of the most rewarding things about working with students
           | is helping them through tough spots. But it is real work, and
           | takes the time and attention of someone who has training.
           | 
           | > but you can search for online communities to do that. E.g.
           | a post to mathoverflow asking about whether the following
           | proof is correct, for example.
           | 
           | I'll just observe that MO, while a great community, can not
           | scale to helping lots of people check their homework. For
           | instance, in a Linear class session I might have 20 people,
           | each with 12 homework questions. MO is just not set up for
           | that.
           | 
           | Now, sometimes students are sure they got questions right,
           | and usually their certainty is right, so there is no need to
           | ask that one online. And sometimes people can find a relevant
           | previous answer (although learners often struggle to find
           | those, in my experience). Nonetheless, even after taking
           | those out, there are still a lot of people with a lot of
           | questions.
           | 
           | > Try to find a community of others online and work with
           | them.
           | 
           | Yes, very good advice. I just wanted to observe that while it
           | might work for OP (and I hope it does), it cannot work for
           | lots of people. I don't know what the answer is, and maybe MO
           | could help a lot, but it can't be the answer alone.
        
             | rsj_hn wrote:
             | Yes, I agree with all these points. I wasn't trying to
             | suggest that access to knowledgeable teachers isn't
             | necessarily, but giving second-best options to those for
             | whom that's not an option.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | It helps to have good resources
         | https://openstax.org/subjects/math
        
         | zsmi wrote:
         | Not impossible but probably really hard.
         | 
         | The issues will be the same with self studying anything.
         | Without someone to critique your work, and point out
         | deficiencies you don't even know are a thing, continuous
         | improvement quickly becomes exponentially harder from the bad
         | habits that are holding you back.
         | 
         | Technique totally matters, even in STEM.
        
       | Evgenii1 wrote:
       | I self study machine learning here
       | https://learnaifromscratch.github.io/ai.html it's an early and
       | shitty draft and proof of concept that you can do self-directed
       | learning for these topics while looking up the background you
       | need to know, which for me is much more interesting than taking a
       | generalized math curriculum of absolutely everything. The courses
       | so far we haven't escaped the content of Wasserman's 'All of
       | Statistics' book yet on classification or probabilistic graphs,
       | so you could if you wanted watch the lectures and only do
       | Wasserman's book.
       | 
       | If you want to try the OCW linear route of taking everything for
       | whatever reasons, you will have to get up to MIT student levels
       | trying to unravel the algebra done in the early calculus courses
       | and later where they just assume you possess this background. One
       | way to do that is those problem solving books like this one which
       | 'bridges the gap between highschool math and university'
       | https://bookstore.ams.org/mcl-25 at least you then get worked out
       | solutions. Another way is Poh-Shen Loh's Discrete Math course he
       | opened up on YouTube which is done the same way he holds the CMU
       | Putnam seminar, working through a bunch of combinatorics and
       | algebra will more than prepare you to understand those continuous
       | math OCW courses https://youtu.be/0K540qqyJJU
       | 
       | Like everybody else there is of course the issue of: who is going
       | to check my work. For me I went with the time tested tradition of
       | hiring a tutor, a local grad student and paid them once a week to
       | go on chat/zoom or meet at a coffee shop before the pandemic and
       | spend a few minutes going over everything I'm doing wrong. In the
       | early days however I used constructive logic ie: 'proof theory',
       | to audit my own work: https://symbolaris.com/course/constlog-
       | schedule.html and read a huge amount of Per-Martin Lof papers on
       | the justifications of logical operators like implies,
       | disjunction, conjunction, etc. Of all the math I've ever taken I
       | would say that proof theory was the most useful for somebody by
       | themselves who isn't sure of what they are doing (I'm still not
       | 100% sure.. hence why I hire people now).
       | 
       | If you want a great Calculus text that explains those nasty
       | looking Euler's e nested statistics distributions try
       | _Mathematical Modeling and Applied Calculus_ by Joel Kilty
       | everything from partial derivatives, gradients, x^n, e^x, trig,
       | integrals, limits is explained in terms of parameters to modeling
       | functions, if you write software it will be easy to understand. I
       | haven 't posted it yet but I tried going through Allan Gut's
       | probability book using only that math modeling calc text and have
       | not run into anything applied, as in concepts about limits or
       | integrals, that wasn't already covered. Of course the concepts
       | are much more abstract measuring a bunch of intervals and a
       | different method of integration and I don't pretend I'll be
       | making any advances in this area beyond applied usage but it can
       | be done, jump in and pick up the background as you go as opposed
       | to doing all the background at once, losing interest and giving
       | up.
        
       | ai_ia wrote:
       | I have a pretty similar background. I have an undergrad in ChemE
       | who fell in love with machine learning research. As I didn't had
       | the appropriate background so I taught myself Computer science
       | using mostly resources such as OCW and teachyourselfcs,
       | videolectures etc.
       | 
       | However, what stood out to me was how difficult it is to self
       | study? Universities provide a setting which helps you learn
       | difficult subjects over a longer period of time. Outside of that,
       | no such avenues exist. It's not just reading up a book or making
       | Anki flash cards(which is quite tedious to be honest) but the
       | process of selecting, vetting what to read next and actually
       | completing it. Or the question are we there yet, with no idea
       | what "there" actually means.
       | 
       | I decided to work on creating a platform where people can
       | actually learn difficult subjects on their own. It's a bit
       | different than normal video based platform, it actually uses text
       | based conversation to facilitate learning. But I truly believe
       | this is the way forward.
       | 
       | I have written comic based guide about this problem:
       | 
       | https://primerlabs.io/comics/introducing-primer-comics/
       | 
       | We are creating self paced courses on Computer Science and also
       | looking into creating self paced Mathematics/Physics courses as
       | well.
       | 
       | We have released two free courses for everyone to try out at
       | https://primerlabs.io
        
         | WhisperingShiba wrote:
         | I would love to self study with more vigor. I studied
         | Mechanical engineering, but I find Math to be so beautiful. I
         | think I chose the right education for the work I find
         | meaningful in the world, but I wish I had more time to learn
         | math that isn't directly relevant to what I am doing.
         | 
         | I'll certainly check out your site and save it for when the
         | world is more peaceful.
        
           | lordnacho wrote:
           | Wow that's what I was gonna write. I did engineering too, and
           | all of the topics listed in the course. But something about
           | doing it to apply to other things is wrong, hard to say what.
           | I remember in high school being quite fascinated by certain
           | beautiful things in maths, and the applied stuff just isn't
           | the same. I guess it just seems like tools. All the theorems
           | are just kinda unsurprising, as far as I recall. Things like
           | Stokes Theorem are kinda foreshadowed as you're doing your
           | reading. Or various statements of continuity (DivGradCurl).
           | 
           | Luckily he left a link for the pure maths course.
        
         | vertak wrote:
         | This is very well done. I've been hobby researching learning
         | tools for the past couple years and this looks like one of the
         | best. @ai_ia have you seen Andy Matuschak's Orbit project?
         | 
         | https://withorbit.com/
         | 
         | You both seem to be solving similar problems.
        
           | ai_ia wrote:
           | Thank you for your kind words.
           | 
           | I am familiar with Andy's Orbit project given that I am a big
           | fan of his writing.
           | 
           | I even linked to his essay "Why Book's don't work"[1] in the
           | introductory blog post[2] as well.
           | 
           | [1]: https://andymatuschak.org/books/
           | 
           | [2]: https://primerlabs.io/blog/introducing-primer/#the-
           | problem-o...
        
         | maddyboo wrote:
         | Excellent intro comic, it got me really excited about your
         | product! I would love to try it out once you release a more
         | advanced course. I signed up, hopefully you will send e-mail
         | updates as you release new courses.
        
           | ai_ia wrote:
           | > I signed up, hopefully you will send e-mail updates as you
           | release new courses.
           | 
           | Yes. That's why we have created guest-login for people to
           | test out the product and if they want to get new course
           | release updates, they can sign up.
           | 
           | Thank you
        
         | flavio_x wrote:
         | I have backgroun in chem Engineering too! Thanks for making
         | this resource availble for us all
        
       | andi999 wrote:
       | Personally I would add integration and measure theory (the sigma
       | algebra and lebesgue stuff), but there seems no such module?
        
         | bigdict wrote:
         | This is covered towards the end of a typical undergrad pure
         | math real analysis course sequence.
        
         | tgflynn wrote:
         | I think that would be more likely to be covered in a pure math
         | program than applied math.
        
           | nuerow wrote:
           | > _I think that would be more likely to be covered in a pure
           | math program than applied math._
           | 
           | Integration is pretty basic and used extensively, and I'd say
           | it makes no sense to cover contour integrals within the scope
           | of complex numbers and differential equations but leave out
           | integrals.
        
             | tgflynn wrote:
             | Integration is covered in any calculus course, the comment
             | I was replying to do was about Lebesgue integration which
             | is a much more advanced topic that as far as I know is only
             | needed for integrating functions which are so pathological
             | that they probably don't occur in the physical world.
        
             | spekcular wrote:
             | The applied math does teach integration: the Riemann
             | integral. Knowing about Lebesgue integration is not really
             | necessary for most of this kind of work.
        
       | blparker wrote:
       | I'm doing something similar, except for Stats. I've cobbled
       | together a plan based on degree programs from Stanford, CMU, and
       | Berkeley. It would seem easier to stay on track with directed
       | course learning, but how do you stay on track with the self-
       | directed learning?
        
         | querez wrote:
         | Could you share your plan, I'd be interested!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | CamperBob2 wrote:
       | The subhead "Why in hell would you do this?" certainly applies to
       | the choice of colors and fonts. Holy cow, talk about reader-
       | hostile.
        
       | TrackerFF wrote:
       | Just don't spread yourself out too thin, and know when to stop -
       | it's super easy to burn out when taking on too much coursework,
       | even if this extra part is self study.
       | 
       | The author writes that he wants to pursue a Ph.D - in that case,
       | I'd put all my effort into pursuing what would maximize my
       | chances at getting into such program. Unfortunately, self study
       | is quite difficult to prove, and does not hold much weight when
       | applying for such positions.
        
       | wespiser_2018 wrote:
       | This guy was my TA in a GT for a course on Educational
       | Technology. He totally blew off giving me any feedback until the
       | last possible moment, super frustrating experience.
       | 
       | I guess now I know where his time went?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jchristian- wrote:
         | I feel bad for you.
         | 
         | Exactly, his time went to a bullshit, self promoting endeavour
         | while neglecting his duties as a TA. By the looks of his text,
         | he looks like a self-centered POS. The text is basically him
         | patting his back.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | tbh, I would wat until hearing his side of the story before
           | passing judgement.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | There are always three sides to every story
             | (his/hers/truth).
             | 
             | In the case of undergrads it can often be a case of
             | everyone procrastinating equally and then initiating a time
             | crunch crisis as they all ask the TA for emergency help
             | simultaneously.
        
         | toreply2021 wrote:
         | wow so much flexing in the article about their degrees and all
         | the things they "did" by themselves
         | 
         | this had me curious into looking this person up - honestly
         | looks like they are trying super hard to get followers by
         | making up substance about their own work and experiences.
         | 
         | (Currrently at GT for part-time program and for some of my
         | classes, the TAs are receptive and very helpful! I would hate
         | to have someone who waited until the end, especially when
         | everyone is figuring out how to schedule their coursework on
         | top of their job)
        
       | adnmcq999 wrote:
       | This is a random flex if there ever was one
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | kxyvr wrote:
       | If anyone wants to attempt this, that's awesome. It's a lot of
       | hard work, but I think it opens a lot of opportunities for
       | personally and professionally. I've a Ph.D in Applied Mathematics
       | from a traditional program, so I wanted to chime in based on some
       | of the comments I'm seeing. As a note, this is an opinion and
       | others may feel differently and strongly at that.
       | 
       | To me, applied mathematics is the art of transforming something
       | into a linear system, which is something that we can tangibly
       | solve on a computer. There are lot's of ways to do this such as
       | Taylor series and Galerkin methods, so a lot of the field is
       | understanding how, when, and why each method can be used. This is
       | coupled with mastery over linear solvers, which includes direct
       | methods, iterative methods, preconditioners, etc.
       | 
       | I wanted to write this comment, though, to focus on certain areas
       | that may end up blocking what I view as appropriate progression
       | in the field. These are things that I believe are necessary to
       | understand advanced topics, but don't necessarily fall under
       | applied mathematics. First, you really do need mastery of real
       | analysis. It's necessary because it covers formally topics such
       | as differentiation, integration, and series, which are required
       | to understand theorems and algorithms. In my opinion, calculus
       | books are not sufficient. Rudin's Principle's of Mathematical
       | Analysis is the most concise, well written book that contains
       | enough. Second, enough functional analysis to understand Hilbert
       | Spaces is required. This prerequisite to this is the real
       | analysis above. The issue here is that algorithms for things like
       | differential equations require function spaces to do properly.
       | Certainly, you can go really deep in this regard, but Hilbert
       | Spaces are generally enough for practical algorithms. This also
       | affects optimization theory, which impacts machine learning.
       | Technically, you can do optimization theory with only real
       | analysis, but the theory is cleaner in Hilbert Space. Questions
       | that need to be answered are things like does the infimum exist
       | and can it be obtained? Working with a general inner product is
       | also a valuable tool for parallelization as well as a modeling
       | tool. Third, some integration or measure theory is required. It
       | depends on what you're doing, so I don't think mastery is
       | strictly necessary, but spaces like L2 don't make a lot of sense
       | unless you know what a Lebesgue integral is. Even if you want to
       | just work with spaces that are Riemann integrable, measure theory
       | helps understand when this is possible and the ramifications of
       | it. And, to be clear, this is important outside of differential
       | equations. If you want to understand optimization theory in a
       | Hilbert Space, the inner products used will require some
       | understand of measure theory.
       | 
       | Anyway, these are some random thoughts and ideas about the field.
       | I do believe strongly that any amount of study is beneficial as
       | most engineering fields benefit from applied mathematics.
        
         | bigdict wrote:
         | What would you recommend on Hilbert spaces to someone who has
         | worked through Baby Rudin?
         | 
         | Thanks for the insightful comment by the way.
        
           | kxyvr wrote:
           | Laugh. I was hoping no one would ask since I don't have a
           | great answer! We used "An introduction to Hilbert space" by
           | Young. It's fine? There's stuff in there like Sturm-Liouville
           | systems that I don't particularly use or care for. I also
           | never use it as a reference.
           | 
           | Here's a hodgepodge of other books related to functional
           | analysis that I like more, but don't directly answer your
           | question. I got a lot of benefit out of "Convex Functional
           | Analysis" by Kurdila and Zabarankin. They sort of have a high
           | level overview of different functional analysis topics,
           | including Hilbert Spaces, but with the ultimate goal of
           | proving what they call the Generalized Weierstrass Theorem.
           | Essentially, when does a function has an inf and when is it
           | attained. Even if you don't care about optimization theory, I
           | very much appreciated their survey of topics to get there.
           | 
           | I occasionally also use "Introductory Functional Analysis
           | with Applications" by Kreyszig as a reference. I think this
           | was the first time I saw cleanly the difference between an
           | adjoint and the Hilbert-adjoint of an operator, which was
           | constantly confusing to me prior to that point.
           | 
           | The last one I like is "Nonlinear Funtional Analysis and its
           | Applications I: Fixed-Point Theorems" by Zeidler. He wrote, I
           | think, five volumes, but this is the only one that I use.
           | Anyway, he presents differentiation, Taylor theorem, and the
           | implicit function theorem very well in function spaces. The
           | first four chapters are great as a reference.
           | 
           | Since I'm listing off obscure books, for integration, I like
           | "A Concise Introduction to the Theory of Integration" by
           | Stroock. I actually don't like his newer book, "Essentials of
           | Integration Theory for Analysis" as much as the older book.
           | Anyway, I find it very dense, but well written. Essentially,
           | I like the first five chapters, which culminates with the
           | divergence theorem, which ultimately gives a precise
           | description of integration by parts in more than one
           | dimension. He also answers precisely the question about the
           | difference between Reimann and Lebesgue integrals.
        
             | bigdict wrote:
             | Thank you! What is that extra power that comes from
             | considering Hilbert spaces as opposed to staying in good
             | ol' R^n?
        
               | kxyvr wrote:
               | Primarily, it gives us the power to work with functions
               | that return other functions. In many ways, it's kind of
               | like going from array processing in Fortran to functional
               | programming. Outside of the esoteric, there's a choice
               | that has to be made while modeling as to when to
               | discretize the system into a linear system. The ability
               | to use a function space means that we can manipulate the
               | formulation into another form before discretizing, which
               | impacts the convergence theory as well as the practical
               | performance.
               | 
               | The reason that I mention Hilbert spaces is that they
               | have more structure than a general function space, which
               | makes working with them easier, but still general enough
               | to be useful. Essentially, we get an inner product as
               | well as the ability to enumerate an orthonormal basis,
               | which makes it feel more like working with linear
               | algebra.
               | 
               | Even in R^n, I believe strongly that it's important to
               | code with these abstractions. First, it makes
               | parallelizing the algorithms easier. If we treat a vector
               | as simply an array of numbers and use the dot product,
               | then the code requires a more significant rewrite when
               | moving to multi-computer parallelism. If we treat them as
               | a generic vector object and have an interface that works
               | with inner products, addition, scaling, etc, then the
               | same code can work either in serial or in parallel given
               | two different implementations of the vectors and their
               | operations.
               | 
               | In addition to the abstractions, the choice of inner
               | product is important. If we have a linear operator in a
               | Hilbert space and discretize it, we generally have to
               | discretize three things: the operator, it's Hilbert
               | adjoint, and the inner product. If we implement this
               | blindly, they're not consistent after discretization.
               | Meaning, the property that we should get is that <Ax,y> =
               | <x,adj(A)y>, but this probably isn't true if not done
               | carefully. Generally, we can freely discretize two out of
               | three of those operations and then the third one needs to
               | be adapted for consistency. Maybe you want to choose the
               | discretization for the operator and its adjoint, but this
               | probably requires a non dot product for an inner product.
               | Alternatively, maybe you're optimizing some problem and
               | realize that some of your variables are out of scale, so
               | it's converging slowly. You can certainly just rescale
               | your variables with a diagonal scaling. However, you can
               | also change your inner product, which changes the
               | gradient, which also rescales the problem in a different
               | way.
               | 
               | Mostly, that's to say that an inner product should be a
               | choice that one freely and intentionally makes. Learning
               | to work in Hilbert spaces forces us to become comfortable
               | with this approach.
        
         | RheingoldRiver wrote:
         | As far as books go, we used "Real Analysis" by Carothers for
         | analysis in undergrad at Caltech and it's one of only two math
         | textbooks (the other being Dummit and Foote for algebra) that I
         | go out of my way to recommend, particularly for self study.
         | It's probably not a sufficient book if you're pursuing a Ph.D.
         | or anything, but I would definitely not start out with Rudin
         | (too little hand-holding, you'll die), and Carothers was
         | amazing.
        
           | rsj_hn wrote:
           | I recommend anything by George F. Simmons, as well as
           | anything by Russians. Seriously, if it's a Russian sounding
           | author's name, then odds are good that it's well written.
           | 
           | They had amazing pedagogy and the EMS series (a joint
           | publication by Springer and the old Soviet publisher VINITI)
           | is first rate.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/Encyclopaedia-of-Mathematical-
           | Science...
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-24 23:01 UTC)