[HN Gopher] 20 years of the iPod
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       20 years of the iPod
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2021-10-23 11:29 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | Microsoft is still working on a Zune 'iPod killer'.
        
         | iso1210 wrote:
         | The most famous use of a Zune is almost certainly the quip in
         | Guardians of the Galaxy 2 -- "It's called a Zune. It's what
         | everybody's listening to on Earth nowadays. It's got three
         | hundred songs on it."
         | 
         | The ipod, perhaps more than google, was the harbinger of the
         | downward spiral of microsoft's iron grip on the tech industry.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | The somewhat remarkable thing to me--and maybe it reflects
           | how large dominant companies _can_ be very resilient to
           | market changes and competition--is that, under Nadella,
           | Microsoft has been able to largely thrive. _In spite of_
           | basically losing mobile in multiple form factors and device
           | types, to say nothing of search, maps, etc.
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | > say nothing of search, maps, etc.
             | 
             | They're too busy selling OS licensees, Office licenses,
             | cloud services, and running Xbox break-even.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | That is due to increased download bandwidth everywhere,
             | especially due to advances in mobile network technology,
             | meant that computing could be offloaded from devices to the
             | cloud. Of course, the cloud requires huge capital
             | expenditures, and who better to capitalize on it than the
             | incumbent giants.
        
           | sorenjan wrote:
           | I think the iPod competed more with Sony than Microsoft.
        
             | throwaway2048 wrote:
             | directly sure, but it was a catalyst to apple's climb to
             | the position it holds now.
        
       | zafiro17 wrote:
       | Fond memories of my click wheel ipod, but I actually just bought
       | a relatively generic MP3 player and am thrilled with it. Wrote
       | about it here:
       | https://therandymon.com/index.php?/archives/360-The-MP3-Play...
       | 
       | The hardware/software are nowhere as slick as that old ipod. But
       | the freedoms this device give me serve as a reminder that all of
       | the constraints of an ipod (one per user, no library comingling,
       | needs itunes, etc.) were artificially imposed by a hardware
       | striving to maximize hardware sales (and placate the music
       | industry).
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | > constraints of an ipod (one per user)
         | 
         | Do you mean one user per iPod? (because you could obviously
         | have many iPods per user... Apple certainly didn't object :)
         | 
         | But yes, you couldn't use iPods to merge iTunes libraries among
         | friends. For that, you needed an external hard drive (and you
         | could mount the original iPod as an external hard drive and
         | copy the music over, but then those mp3s were seen as data, not
         | music, and could not be played...). And once the iTunes music
         | store got introduced, music you bought there was DRM'd, so that
         | complicated things further.
         | 
         | But I don't think it was deliberately designed to "maximize
         | hardware sales". You could easily wipe it and sync to another
         | user in a few minutes (the original Firewire had 100 to 400
         | Mbit/s, so say 3 to 10 minutes to replace the entire 5 GB
         | library, so quicker than charging it).
         | 
         | I'd venture that the constraints were demanded by the music
         | industry, not imposed by Apple to maximise hardware sales (how
         | is "needs iTunes" maximising hardware sales?).
        
         | corin_ wrote:
         | From your blog:
         | 
         | > _Finally, here 's what drove the purchase: I was taking a
         | long car trip, and my wife was doing the DJ work using my
         | device. Of course, every time she wanted to change tracks I had
         | to unlock the device with my fingerprint. Ridiculous. This
         | little device solved that problem_
         | 
         | Wouldn't telling her your phone's code, or temporarily adding
         | one of her fingerprints to it for the duration of the journey,
         | have been a much simpler solution...?
        
           | tartoran wrote:
           | Apple devices are very personal. There may be guest modes but
           | that's not the point, they are too multipurposed and yet
           | artificially limited. A good generic music player is a
           | straight forward stand alone device. Where they fail is where
           | the content is online on some service
        
             | corin_ wrote:
             | Sure, but the complaint was written as it being annoying
             | having to constantly unlock it for her to have access to
             | it, not wanting to prevent her from having access to it.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | And now, iFumes^W Apple Music is ruining it all. More profits for
       | Apple, worse experience for users.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | C'mon, don't you want to hear the new Billie Eilish album in
         | Dolby Atmos? Guess you aren't a _true_ audiophile then...
        
           | tempodox wrote:
           | If it were only that. Have you tried the iPhone Music app
           | with something _not_ downloaded from Apple Music or the
           | iTunes store? Like, music sampled from CDs or bought on
           | Bandcamp or somewhere else? It will challenge your
           | creativity.
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | I have an iTunes library that I've been working on since at
             | least 2004 that contains music from all sorts of sources,
             | including tracks from Apple Music and recent additions from
             | bandcamp. Haven't had any issues. The UI indicating what
             | has/hasn't synced with the cloud could be better, but
             | otherwise it's fine.
             | 
             | I don't feel like Apple Music is particularly pushy either,
             | at least compared to Spotify. Music.app also doesn't have
             | its UI changing constantly for no reason, also unlike
             | Spotify.
        
             | pram wrote:
             | Yes, I download it from Bandcamp and iTunes Match adds it
             | to the rest of my devices. Easy!
        
               | tempodox wrote:
               | Ah, another subscription. Things like that used to work
               | without having to pay ransom. Apple deliberately
               | deteriorated the user experience to bully us into buying
               | those subscriptions.
        
               | ch_sm wrote:
               | I think they've quietly integrated it into Apple Music?
               | Haven't paid for iTunes Match in like 5 years, and it
               | still works fine.
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | If you manage your music library via iTunes, you can sync
               | with USB or WiFi and not pay at all, just like back in
               | 2001 (though back then it was Firewire).
        
               | rideontime wrote:
               | Is iTunes Match a separate subscription? I'm not happy
               | with Google Music ever since they rolled it into Youtube
               | Music, which has similar issues as the Music app now,
               | where they're more interested in selling you more
               | subscriptions than letting you play the music you already
               | own. But I'm already paying for iCloud storage, so can I
               | just use the space I'm already paying for to store my
               | music?
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | It is a separate subscription [1], and hardly advertised
               | at all anymore. I use it instead of Apple Music, and pay
               | 188 HKD/a, that's around US$ 25 per year.
               | 
               | Here's basically what it does:
               | 
               | * you add your music library to it.
               | 
               | * what it recognises, it matches, and upgrades to 256
               | kbit/s AAC encoded quality.
               | 
               | * what it doesn't recognise, it uploads and stores.
               | 
               | * all of it is now available on all your devices (and you
               | can download/delete local copies at will).
               | 
               | I was thinking of "upgrading" to Apple Music (as part of
               | Apple One), and I'd hate if that functionality
               | (specifically the uploading/syncing of "unmatched" songs)
               | were removed!
               | 
               | [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204146
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | If we're going all nostalgic, remember the free ipod sites?
        
       | adamgordonbell wrote:
       | Fun fact: the software, or at least the filesystem code, for the
       | original IPod was developed on Windows because the ARM toolkit
       | was windows based
       | 
       | https://corecursive.com/063-apple-2001/#the-first-day
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | For some reason they chose the official ARM dev kit which was
         | indeed windows based. But there has been a great GCC based dev
         | tool chain since forever.
         | 
         | I do my embedded development pretty much exclusively using GCC
         | on the Mac or Linux.
        
         | sn_master wrote:
         | Fun fact 2: Most of Google was using Windows in the early 2000s
         | because of the need for Outlook and similar software that was
         | Windows-only as well.
         | 
         | Even now that Macs are an option in most FAANG+, most non-
         | fresh-grad hires either pick Linux or Windows machines and
         | completely avoid Macs.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | >completely avoid Macs
           | 
           | As someone who normally attends quite a few tech conference
           | events, that doesn't square remotely with what I see. Macs
           | are out of all proportion to their percentage in the world at
           | large. While it's harder to have an inventory of the rest, I
           | assume they're mostly Linux given that one hardly ever sees a
           | speaker presenting from a Windows laptop. [ADDED: This is in
           | the context of events that are not Microsoft-centric.]
        
             | wk_end wrote:
             | My understanding is that MacBooks are much less popular
             | outside of North America, where they are indeed ubiquitous.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | That's entirely possible. I go to a fair number of
               | European events but there are a lot of North Americans at
               | them as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if pricing
               | made MacBooks even more premium outside the US.
        
               | short12 wrote:
               | I wouldnt call them ubiquitous in north America by any
               | stretch of the imagination. Popular in very specific
               | fields and I agree. Their market share in the USA is 16
               | percent. That's getting clobbered by windows primarily
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | I remember a story where a journalist sent an email with a
           | tracking pixel to Tim Cook and it reported the user agent as
           | being a Windows PC running Outlook.
        
             | deanCommie wrote:
             | Most exec email goes through an executive assistant filter.
             | With C-execs, usually a team.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jboy55 wrote:
           | In support for your first sentence, Macs were very unusual
           | for techs in the valley until OSX. I ran a linux laptop for a
           | long time until I gave in and stopped doing my own IT and got
           | a Macbook.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | In the USA, in the rest of the world Mac is just the machine
           | to code against iOS and nothing else.
           | 
           | Most media producers today switched to Windows.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | Indeed, if you do embedded development it's somewhere between
         | hard and impossible to avoid Windows, although it's still a
         | horrific platform for software development compared to Linux or
         | even macOS. Many tools are Windows-only or Windows-first.
        
       | wila wrote:
       | Also see: https://panic.com/blog/a-prototype-original-ipod/
        
       | mobilio wrote:
       | And was used in some spy activities:
       | 
       | https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ip...
        
         | mobilio wrote:
         | Original discussion is here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24188791
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | I'm tempted to say that this story uses hindsight to maybe give
       | Apple at least a bit too much credit. When the iPod first came
       | out it wasn't anything obviously special. The famous clicky wheel
       | didn't come until I think the 4th generation and I believe iTunes
       | was originally Mac only. And Macs were pretty fringe at the time.
       | 
       | And while legit digital music downloads would set the stage for
       | today's online music scene, digital purchases were never that big
       | a chunk of the market and declined fairly quickly given
       | streaming.
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | Digital sales out-revenued streaming until sometime 2014ish,
         | and there was a window in which that happened while it also
         | beat out physical formats.
         | 
         | And it "declined fairly quickly given streaming" because buffet
         | streaming services basically fucked with the economics to offer
         | a product designed to replace recording collections while
         | paying a fraction of the price... and fractionalizing revenue
         | to those who create the content. Or in other words, solving
         | piracy by merging the economic model of piracy with an updated
         | middleman model and capturing as much value as possible in
         | between.
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | So what I'm getting from this thread is there are no reasons
         | why the iPod would become successful, would go on to dominate
         | the portable music player market and reconcile the music
         | publishers with digital downloads. In fact, it seems most
         | likely that those things didn't happen at all, and if they did
         | it was because of Apple's magic marketing which is cheating,
         | rather than real reasons.
        
         | alphabettsy wrote:
         | I can hardly recall anyone having an MP3 player that wasn't an
         | iPod when I was young.
         | 
         | Other than that Sony and the Zune are all that I remember
         | seeing and that was very rare.
         | 
         | There's also the ecosystem to consider. Cars, gyms, hotels all
         | started offering ways to connect an iPod. Accessories for iPods
         | were everywhere.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | If you remember the Zune you're talking about a later period.
           | The Zune wasn't introduced until 2006, just before the
           | iPhone. The other MP3 players people are talking about here
           | were early 2000s.
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | The very first iPod had a clickwheel. It took a few generations
         | before it was touch sensitive instead of a physically rotating
         | wheel.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | petepete wrote:
           | The first two generations had a ring of buttons around the
           | wheel rather than a touchwheel; menu at the top, play/pause
           | at the bottom and skip backwards and forwards on the left and
           | right. The third gen moved these buttons to between the wheel
           | and the screen. Fourth was clicky wheel, I believe.
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | Click wheel was Apple's term for the touch sensitive wheel
           | with integrated buttons. But reviews praised the iPod's
           | interface before the click wheel.
        
           | tda wrote:
           | Am I the only one who considered the touch wheel a
           | regression? I really liked my iPod with physical clicky
           | spinning wheel
        
             | uxp100 wrote:
             | No, it was a common complaint at the time when the touch
             | wheel was introduced. They became a lot more ubiquitous
             | after the touch wheel introduction though, but I don't
             | think that was directly related...
        
             | FabHK wrote:
             | The spinning wheel also had some inertia, which was really
             | neat. You could give it a good spin and it would slowly
             | "roll out". I think they tried to emulate that with the
             | round capacitive touch thingy ("click wheel"), but that
             | wasn't quite as nice. I guess it was more dust/dirt/water
             | resistant, though.
        
         | robertoandred wrote:
         | The first iPod had the wheel, which was the revelation. The
         | later clickwheel was just an iteration. And the iPod had
         | FireWire, which meant you didn't have to wait all day to move
         | your music over USB.
        
           | Voline wrote:
           | USB 1.1 moved data at 12 Mb/s and carried insufficient power
           | to charge an iPod. Whereas FireWire shifted data at 400 Mb/s.
           | That difference was huge.
           | 
           | Apple didn't come out with USB support for the iPod until USB
           | 2.0 became a common feature on PCs, with it's theoretical
           | speed of 480 Mb/s (in my experience of real-world use it was
           | actually still slower than FireWire 400) and sufficient
           | power.
        
           | wanderingstan wrote:
           | Sometimes I forget how painfully slow usb 1.x was! I had an
           | external drive and copying a few cds worth of music would
           | take hours.
        
         | limeblack wrote:
         | If you are including YouTube streaming then yes ad revenue from
         | this wasn't that late to the game, but Spotify and pandora took
         | over a decade to grow any meaningful market share.
         | 
         | https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/4713/global-recorded-musi...
        
         | enjoy-your-stay wrote:
         | >I'm tempted to say that this story uses hindsight to maybe
         | give Apple at least a bit too much credit. >When the iPod first
         | came out it wasn't anything obviously special.
         | 
         | Well, it kind of was. It was the only player with the click
         | wheel interface, and the only one that supported Firewire. This
         | gave it the advantage of being generally easy to use and was
         | very fast and convenient to load music. It also looked pretty
         | good (I wanted one the minute I saw it).
         | 
         | With the downsides being that 1. it was pretty expensive and 2.
         | that it had an in built hard-drive that didn't really enjoy
         | being bumped about too much (my 3rd gen died with the HDD) so
         | you had to treat it carefully.
         | 
         | However they iterated pretty quickly after that, adding Windows
         | support, USB, colour hi-res screens and _massively_ reducing
         | the size whilst also reducing the price. All of this allowed
         | them to outstrip the competition so much that they were pretty
         | soon one of the very few players left in that market.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | > When the iPod first came out it wasn't anything obviously
         | special.
         | 
         | It was special (if only for Mac users initially). The first
         | iPod did have a physically turning wheel (the capacitive
         | sensing clickety one that came later didn't turn). It also had
         | 5 GB and Firewire, and synced your entire iTunes music library
         | (with meta data, including playlists IIRC) over onto the iPod
         | in a few minutes. The UI, polish, and speed combined to an
         | experience that was way ahead of all the other MP3 players
         | around at the time.
         | 
         | Edit to add: Also, btw, other MP3 players at the time used AA
         | batteries typically, and required manually copying over music.
         | The iPod would recharge and automatically sync with your iTunes
         | library (including contacts and calendars) every time it was
         | plugged in.
         | 
         | > And while legit digital music downloads would set the stage
         | for today's online music scene, digital purchases were never
         | that big a chunk of the market and declined fairly quickly
         | given streaming.
         | 
         | First came iTunes, then iPod, then later the iTunes Music
         | Store. There were virtually no legit digital music downloads at
         | the time the iPod came out. Most people's digital library came
         | from Napster (illicitly) or (legit) ripping their own CDs
         | (recall Apple's excellent "Rip. Mix. Burn." commercial:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pleybGLgaEc ).
         | 
         | BTW, the UK launch was on 2001-11-22 at the London MacExpo in
         | Islington, London.
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | iTunes for Windows is what made Apple a trillion dollar
         | company.
         | 
         | https://qz.com/136239/making-itunes-available-for-windows-ch...
         | 
         | The iPod would have languished and died otherwise, and it
         | certainly wouldn't have put Apple on track (and swelling with
         | cash) to do iPhone later on.
        
           | stefan_ wrote:
           | Remember when they made iMessage for Android and WhatsApp
           | never happened?
           | 
           | Oh wait, that part didn't happen.
        
         | TomVDB wrote:
         | I wasn't a Mac user back then, but when the original iPod was
         | revealed, I was blown away by its looks, and it was something
         | we talked about at the office.
         | 
         | I don't know what was so special about the 4th generation clock
         | wheel though...
        
         | iso1210 wrote:
         | > When the iPod first came out it wasn't anything obviously
         | special.
         | 
         | No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
         | 
         | (for those unaware, back in 2001 Slashdot was the premier
         | location on the internet for talking about tech. This was the
         | summary review from the Slashdot founder, Rob Malda. It's a
         | facinating example of how early tech adopters might understand
         | the features, but would easilly mistake what was important in a
         | massmarket)
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | While true, Apple also iterated (and took advantage of higher
           | capacity disk drives). It took until the 4th generation to
           | get the iconic version of the click wheel. It also took some
           | time for Apple to offer iTunes on Windows. So while some of
           | us could have been more forward looking at the time, it
           | wasn't obviously a world-changing product out of the gate.
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | The iPod's wheel was distinctive immediately. The click
             | wheel was just a refinement.
             | 
             | Windows support followed within 9 months. Do you think it
             | wasn't planned before launch?
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | I thought the 1st generation had the best _click_ wheel.
        
         | sn_master wrote:
         | > iTunes was originally Mac only
         | 
         | When Apple made iTunes for Windows, Steve Jobs called it "It's
         | like giving somebody a glass of hell in ice water." [1]
         | 
         | I mean, was Windows Media Player really that bad? I still miss
         | the visualizations and even the fancy skins. iTunes in
         | comparison was very dull and barely changed in 20 years.
         | 
         | [1] https://500ish.com/a-time-to-kill-itunes-2d9a24529b9a
        
           | iso1210 wrote:
           | Your link puts the quote "It's like giving somebody a glass
           | of ice water in hell", which makes far more sense.
           | 
           | And WMP was awful, and got more awful each time. Winamp on
           | the other hand was great, it really kicked the llama's ass.
        
             | dwighttk wrote:
             | whips, not kicked
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | There were decidedly better programs than iTunes for Windows
           | PCs. At the time, I was very into curating the genres etc. of
           | my music collection and used a program called J River Media
           | Center or something like that. I only stopped using it when
           | Apple essentially made it impossible for 3rd party programs
           | to be fully functional.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _I mean, was Windows Media Player really that bad?_
           | 
           | It is probably the primary reason I told the spouse to "get
           | in the car, we're going to the Apple Store to buy iPods." As
           | a Microsoft employee at the time, I'd had my fill of trying
           | to make Microsoft's shit music player ecosystem work out of
           | some misplaced sense of company loyalty. Playlists wouldn't
           | sync, and all kinds of that ilk I've long since forgotten.
           | And that's before we get to PlaysForSure...
        
           | pram wrote:
           | WMP was terrible as a music player. That's why Winamp and
           | Foobar exist.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | > When the iPod first came out it wasn't anything obviously
         | special.
         | 
         | As the story notes, it was immediately "special" due to the
         | polish, relative ease of use, and internal micro-HDD that
         | allowed it to store far more music than any other player with
         | any market penetration - while some prior models also used a
         | hard drive and offered comparable capacity, it wasn't until the
         | iPod came along with Apple's marketing behind it that portable
         | digital players really started to displace portable CD players.
         | 
         | Remember, too, this was in 2001, well before flash had gotten
         | as cheap and reliable as we're accustomed to today, and well
         | before anyone was in the habit of encoding at higher quality
         | than 128Kbps MP3 could provide - 5GB in a portable music player
         | was _huge_.
        
           | phh wrote:
           | The Archos Jukebox 6000 had 6GB HDD as a portable mp3 player
           | one year earlier than the iPod.
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | Yes, but nobody ever heard of it until it was mentioned as
             | an also-ran in Wikipedia's article about DAPs. (That said,
             | I did just finish updating my prior comment to reflect that
             | the iPod wasn't the first HDD-based player to market, but I
             | think it is still fair to say it was the first one that
             | _mattered_.)
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Even if they weren't nearly as ubiquitous as they would
               | become, people absolutely had heard of DAPs before the
               | iPod came out. And, like the iPhone, it took 2 or 3
               | generations before it was obvious to a lot of people that
               | this was something different--in part because of the
               | ecosystem.
               | 
               | Here for example, is a not very flattering account of the
               | introduction from PC Magazine: https://web.archive.org/we
               | b/20011121170057/http:/www.interac...
        
               | fumar wrote:
               | Kids had MP3 players before the iPod. I remember them in
               | high school and yes they were a known music player
               | alternative to CDs. The iPod landed with a unified
               | marketing campaign that promoted itself as a music device
               | vs an MP3 player. The marketing campaign was sleek and
               | different.
        
               | throwanem wrote:
               | Before the iPod, a DAP was an alternative to a Discman.
               | After, it was the other way around - at first for rich
               | kids whose families could afford the requisite Macs for
               | iTunes, but once iTunes for Windows came out, a Discman
               | was what you had if you were poor.
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | But those flash based MP3 players didn't have much
               | storage (certainly not several GB), and typically had a
               | terrible UI, if they could handle meta data (song,
               | artist, album, genre) at all.
        
             | Retric wrote:
             | The Archie Jukebox 6000 was freaking huge because it used a
             | laptop sized HDD. It was portable much like a boom box was
             | portable, but at the size of a CD player and a small stack
             | of CD's it wasn't clearly better.
             | 
             | The 2001 iPod cost 400$, but it was smaller than a CD
             | player (4.02inx2.43inx0.78in) and could hold 1,000 songs.
             | That's point where it could start to kill off personal CD
             | players.
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | Exactly, the Archie Jukebox didn't fit into a jeans
               | pocket. There were MP3 players that did fit into a jeans
               | pocket, but they used flash, which at the time only had
               | the capacity for a few CDs at most. So, it was the iPod
               | with which you could carry your entire music library (or
               | a good chunk of it, nearly 100 CDs) in your pocket.
        
               | Someone wrote:
               | Wikipedia also claims
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_Jukebox_series):
               | 
               |  _"The Jukebox is historically notable for shipping with
               | a user interface and operating system so unfriendly and
               | bug-ridden as to inspire Bjorn Stenberg and other
               | programmers to develop a superior, free and open-source
               | replacement operating system. This project became
               | Rockbox.[citation needed]"_
               | 
               | Anybody know whether that (especially the "so unfriendly
               | and bug-ridden" part; that Rockbox started on that device
               | seems less controversial to me) is true?
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | The Creative NOMAD Jukebox was released in 2000 and had a 6GB
           | hard drive.
        
             | cma wrote:
             | The NOMAD used a large laptop drive that wasn't pocketable
             | and used a lot of power. Apple bought exclusive music
             | player rights to Toshiba's tiny drive giving them a
             | temporary monopoly.
        
           | ricw wrote:
           | Exactly. The same argument gets peddled out against any Apple
           | product. There was a capacitive touch screen phone before the
           | iPhone. There were app stores before the iPhone's. There were
           | music players with X before the iPad. Rinse and repeat.
           | 
           | Apples magic is the entire packaging and intuitiveness such
           | that every layperson can use it. But that's not on the spec
           | sheet...
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | > digital purchases were never that big a chunk of the market
         | 
         | There was a 4-year stretch where paid downloads were the
         | leading source of revenue for the music industry.
         | 
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrosenblatt/2018/05/07/the-s...
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I guess it depends on the source of the numbers. Eyeballing
           | this chart [1] it doesn't look as if downloads were ever the
           | majority. (In any case, they weren't for long.)
           | 
           | [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/4713/global-recorded-
           | musi...
        
       | sn_master wrote:
       | I still use my iPod Nano 7th Gen. It's just beautiful. Very
       | lightweight, no Internet distractions, the hardware buttons for
       | volume and next/prev are excellent to use when it's in your
       | pocket, the screen is just the right size for showing and
       | navigating names of albums and songs.
       | 
       | Only thing its missing is LDAC for Bluetooth. The difference is
       | noticeable when you have headset that actually supports it.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | The last ipod nano must be one of the most beautiful products
         | that Apple ever made. A fantastic screen, unrivalled touch and
         | extreme thinness conspire to make it an audio player that
         | nothing else even approaches. It's tragic that it's such a dead
         | end now. I hope one day Apple revives it because it's one of
         | the most complete products out there. (more memory wouldn't
         | hurt though)
        
         | justinator wrote:
         | Can you use one of those dongles made for a car stereo?
        
         | extra88 wrote:
         | I used a Nano _5th_ gen, the last to have a clickwheel, until
         | 2019. It was primarily for use at the gym but because I mostly
         | listened to podcasts and didn 't want to try to keep everything
         | synced with Mac, Nano, and iPhone, it was the only thing I used
         | for portable audio.
         | 
         | I've switched to using an Apple Watch to have wireless
         | headphones but it's not great; syncing to the Watch's storage
         | (I don't want my phone on me at the gym) is slow and the
         | Podcast app can be wonky. Just today it stopped playing an
         | episode in the middle for no apparent reason and I couldn't get
         | it to start again. Some of this may be because it's a Series 1
         | Watch but newer models seem too expensive for possibly not that
         | much better an experience.
        
           | Voline wrote:
           | I also don't want to take my expensive and distracting iPhone
           | to the gym. To this day I use an iPod Shuffle. I have one
           | playlist that I change over time in iTunes, sync up, and play
           | on shuffle. And a new-in-box Shuffle pod in a drawer for when
           | this one dies.
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | First iPod was 2001; first iPhone was 2007.
       | 
       | Apple developed a category of their own, and then killed it
       | themselves.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | It never pays to be perfect. The ipod nano evolved to become
         | everything it could possibly be and then died a natural death
         | of stagnation mixed with increasing irrelevance. I wonder if
         | the smartphone will reach a similar equilibrium until the
         | manufacture and os become irrelevant. Obviously Big Tech are
         | trying hard to tip the balance the other way so that their
         | platforms grow ever more apart and increasingly isolated.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I assume a smartphone successor would involve wearables that
           | make a palm-sized slab of glass in your pocket unnecessary.
           | Don't really see that on the horizon but most people have
           | only owned a smartphone for 10 years or so at this point so
           | these technology shifts are over very short periods of time
           | by historical standards.
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | Replacing something in your pocket isn't really the
             | problem, the watch with a built in cellular connections can
             | already do that just fine. It's replacing a 6"+ touch
             | screen retina display in your hands that's the problem. So
             | far wearables have no answer to that.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Yes, it's about the interface.
        
         | sn_master wrote:
         | Don't forget iPod touch which allowed Apple to slowly develop
         | most of the iPhone features (e.g touch UI) and test it with
         | customers before announcing the iPhone.
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | The iPod Touch (September 2007) was announced after the
           | iPhone (June 2007).
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | What probably most killed the market for the iPod Touch is
             | that, once the iPhone was out in the market for a few
             | years, hand me down phones replaced the need to buy a new
             | Touch.
        
       | Causality1 wrote:
       | The ipod didn't shuffle music and tech into a new era. The iTunes
       | store did. The iTunes store could've turned any PMP into a titan.
       | One could even argue it was Rio's successful legal defense of the
       | concept of a PMP that laid the foundation for the entire
       | industry.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | The window of people who will be nostalgic about iPods is smaller
       | than those who have nostalgia for 8-track tapes.
       | 
       | It's an entire product category that swept in and had less than a
       | decade of relavence before getting washed out in the tide.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Of course, most people haven't had smartphones for more than a
         | decade at this point. (Certainly not much longer on the outside
         | especially if you exclude Blackberries.) Not that smartphones
         | are likely to evaporate anytime soon.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | I guess they were really only relevant for maybe 5 years,
         | ~2005-2010. It primed Apple to make the iPhone (which is huge),
         | but it ended up being a bridge technology between CDs and
         | streaming.
        
           | tomjen3 wrote:
           | Spotify launched in the US in July 2011, that is well into
           | the smartphone era. By then the iPhone 3g had been out for
           | about 2 years.
        
       | comeonseriously wrote:
       | A shame the only option today is the iPod Touch. Might as well
       | just use an old phone...
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | TIL there is still an iPod for sale.
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | I love Louis Rossman's video about why he does not use Apple
       | products. Near the beginning, he talks about how he worked in a
       | recording studio, and people would bring in background music they
       | wanted to sing along with on MP3 players, and he was used to just
       | copying files off. Which worked just fine until he encountered
       | his first iPod:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/sfrYOWlKJ_g?t=163
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | FWIW, you can trivially pirate music from an iTunes library [1]
         | with an external hard drive or USB stick or, in fact, an iPod
         | mounted as an external drive. You could also play music from an
         | iPod that was plugged in, IIRC, which should have been enough
         | for the recording studio/karaoke use case. But you couldn't
         | just copy music from an iPod to your own library, indeed (I
         | doubt the music industry would've gone along with that for very
         | long, either).
         | 
         | [1] except DRM'd music, such as music purchased on the iTunes
         | Store between its debut in 2003 and 2009.
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | The other mp3 players didn't get MPAA's approval because they
         | allowed copying music, ie "they were tools for piracy".
         | 
         | Apple's system was genius: It could only synchronize with the
         | system it came from, making it a peripheral of the computer,
         | not a node in a network. This restriction lived on for the
         | iPhone, making Apple fans curse and Android fans laugh, when a
         | computer was required to install an iPhone, for years and years
         | after it wasn't technically necessary. But binding with 1 (one)
         | computer was the agreement if Apple wanted to host music under
         | benevolence from the labels.
         | 
         | Apple would have never been able to get agreements with music
         | labels if the iPod had been open. And thus, it lived on, while
         | all other mp3-player brands died.
         | 
         | It is a consequence of the music industry and an emergent
         | property of IP laws, not a standalone decision from Apple, as
         | opposed to making all their products closed-source, which they
         | don't have to.
        
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